Miyamoto: "Story is meant to give the game world some substance

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Of course! It just can't substitute for gameplay

Story gives context to the actions of the protagonist. That's how you should think of it. The plot of the game is why you're taking your protagonist from place to place and through the various ordeals they end up facing.

>>3806761
I thought Shiggy hated stories in vidya. That's why he stripped so much from Sticker Star.

>>3806771
Nah. He told them to make it different, not a clone of Paper Mario 64. The director went overboard and forced the whole Toad thing out of spite and his own stupidity.

>>3806761
Story in games were important until 1996

>>3806776
Oh, that makes sense, though I find it odd someone would be that petty. Also, it's not like Nintendo isn't accustomed to rehashing what works.

>>3806761
There's nothing uncharacteristic about these comments. Miyamoto has always believed that a story should be there to provide context for a game (or mythos). But not much more than that.

>>3806761
Oh man, I really liked what Eiji said there. About completely missing cut-scenes. It makes me want to find them.

https://www.google.ie/search?q="Story+is+meant+to+give+the+game+world+some+substance+and+meat!"

Jesus christ this board.

>>3806859
Yeah me too. Like cut-scene with Anju and her mom in Majora's Mask. Maybe we can extrapolate the system he has hidden through that scene somehow.

Will Link be an eavesdropper? That would certainly be an interesting way to tell a story. You're just a fly on the wall listening to people talk about the past and such, and that rekindles your memory.

Shiggy really thinks like a WRPG dev. The story is just supposed to give you a context of the game, but you are the one who has to take your own choices and create the storyline yourself.

I think that is alright, but for certain genres that doesnt work at all. Also i think Shiggy hatred for stories is unreasonable, because writing a good story is the easiest part of a videogame development, because you dont need to code something or create a new game mechanic. You just need to write. Thats all.

>>3806846
Actually that's what he said is Koizumi's philosophy. Miyamoto only cares about one thing: resonance. He said story is just one tool to achieve resonance, but that if you get it wrong it can break your suspension of disbelief. That's why he didn't want Mario to fight some boss in a specific location in SMG, because he couldn't explain how the boss would have got there. In other words, Miyamoto's top priority is if the game is comfy. Something that Koizumi seems to not agree with, being a story/ideas guy.

But yeah, Miyamoto has always said that story is super important when it comes to Zelda. Personally, I'm offended for him that he has to repeat himself so many times. Imagine if you were Miyamoto, and every time you came to America some guy asked you to repeat what you meant. After a certain point I wouldn't want to come back to that country with giant ass ignoramuses.

He's said this at least five damn times just to English presses, and who knows how many times by nameless Youtube celebs.

>>3806896
>Also i think Shiggy hatred for stories is unreasonable,
Where are you pulling this from? Is there some secret end to the video I somehow can't see where he goes off the wall and slams story games?

I thought you were about to say something intelligent, like that Shiggy can't possibly hate story since Nintendo goes to so much trouble to be secretive about it.

story is just an excuse for bad gameplay

>>3806927

>I thought you were about to say something intelligent, like that Shiggy can't possibly hate story since Nintendo goes to so much trouble to be secretive about it.

Literally all the games Miyamoto made back then when he was still a dev, the story is almost non-existant. He also said that he doesnt care about the characters at all, he always focuses only on the gameplay, and all the franchise shit just exists to give the game a name.

I quote: "What makes it a new game is new gameplay and new interactions. So when we’re creating a game, we’re always looking at it from, ‘What is the gameplay, and how are making that gameplay new?’ And then, ‘Who is the character that is best suited to that gameplay?’”

Zelda is probably the only Nintendo franchise where they actually care about the story, but not because Miyamoto cares about it, but is the company who forces him to include it into the game.

Maybe the word "hatred" is too much, but really, if he could make the whole story just 2 text boxes, one at the start that said "go save the princess" and one at the final that said "you saved the princess", he would do it. Hes the same as Carmack.

>>3806971
See >>3806914
And read, and if need be, reread it until you understand what he's saying in the context of that.

Protip: The """character""" he's talking about is not so much the avatar but the story and character like he's talking about in the video. He's reiterated this numerous times as well, such as most recently about how he decided that F.L.U.D.D. was more fit to be a Mario idea than a Zelda one.

>>3806761
That's pretty weird. I know for a fact I read somewhere that Miyamoto was confused by Itoi's Mother games because he found stories to be at best superfluous to a game's structure.

>>3807018
What I remember reading from the Miyamoto x Itoi interview was that Itoi wanted to make Mother, and he decided to present it on Nintendo's office, since he was already working with them on public ads.
I think he wrote a sort of dossier for the game with a map of the whole game hand-drawn included. He presented it to Miyamoto, but Shiggy told Itoi it needed not only a plot but also an idea behind the gameplay (and I guess "just like Dragon Quest" didn't convince Miyamoto). Also, Miyamoto thought it wouldn't be a good idea to let a non-videogame industry celebrity make a game, because Yamauchi was against that kind of stuff.
But it was Yamauchi himself who told Shiggy to call Itoi back. Miyamoto ended up being the game's producer, same with Mother 2.
Also, I believe Miyamoto could never finish Mother 1, but I remember reading he said Mother 2 was the first RPG he's ever finished, stating that he's not really an RPG guy.

>>3807761
and when they say that miyamoto isn't screwing around with any chances of a new metroid game, they call everyone crazy

>>3807761
Dang, the world would be a much darker place without Miyamoto.

>>3806761
Of course the guy actually who made the story doesn't know what he meant it to do while some kids on the internet do. Do you even millennial?

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>>3806896
>writing a good story is the easiest part of a videogame development, because you dont need to code something or create a new game mechanic. You just need to write. Thats all.
spoken like a true pleb

>>3806761
I prefer Carmack's view on the matter.

>>3806761
Mario has a great story. The key is your interaction makes the narrative. Mario can be an evil and wild fucker.

>>3808812

>writing is hard

protip: theres not bad games for having too much story.

>>3808812
>idea guy thinking that writing the story is comparable in cost to other aspects of game development

>>3809069
Not idea guy, but writing can be the most expensive part of a game. Let's play devil's advocate and say you're Miyamoto and you LOATHE stories like the couch critics here think. Your game still has to have a story thrown in at the end which the whole game must adhere to.

Eg. the best part of Twilight Princess was that the story is so strong. Like when you beat King Bulbos the first time, he somehow survives, which as you can later notice is because the gorge that runs under the Bridge of Eldin is Zora's River. Also they talk about how important it was that Link meets the four girls in OoT. Even though your interactions with Saria and Malon are optional, they still have to make sure everything is consistent like say, when you go learn the Sacred Forest Meadow (i.e. she can't also be in her house).

Story is there to be the meat that brings all the flavors together. It is very expensive. In fact that most obvious sign between a good developer and a bad, is probably whether they can tell a story within a budget.

>>3809057
But there are bad games with shit stories

>>3810372
Fact. You cannot make a bad game with a good story. If the game is shit so is the story.

>>3810659
Fact. Your opinions are shit.

>>3806761
no carmack proved otherwise

get your story shit outta here! the best games dont have that which is why chess and tetris are better than zeldor

>>3811009
Only thing Carmack proved was he's an autismo that can't venture outside his FPS safezone.

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>>3806865
It's a quote from the video

>>3810659

Nier is a shitty and dreadful gameplay experience with a good story though.

>When I watch a porn, I don't need any shitty set up. Just get to the point!

>>3811327
Stop this meme, Nier's gameplay is decent/alright

>>3811329
>implying there are people who ACTUALLY care about story in porn

>>3811349
>actually, I was implying that people who don't care about good stories, only good games, are like people who just want to get off and don't want to think

>>3811349
I care about story in porn.

>>3810659
final fantasy V has the most sunday morning cartoon-esque story of the series but it's still the most enjoyable one to replay of the nintendo era.

>>3811349

Nier's gameplay would be considered alright if it came out before the first DMC. It also has no excuse to look worse than late PS2 titles.

>>3806761
Video games have started to go way overboard with plot around the time OoT came out. The way the "plot" is delivered is all wrong too.

>>3811390
>Nier's gameplay would be considered alright if it came out before the first DMC
what the hell does DMC have to do with this?

>>3811435

The blame is mostly on MGS1, I'd say.

>>3811457
MGS1 allowed you to skip most cutscenes though. OoT made sure that you'd listen to that owl rambling many times.

>>3811009
Metroid muh boi, Metroid.

>>3806781
>the president has been kidnapped by ninjas

>>3811509
>MP3
>Fusion
>MOTHER FUCKING M

They started to sacrifice game design and overall quality to promote plot and ultimately destroyed the franchise.

>>3809057
>theres not bad games for having too much story.
>Storyfags actually believe this

>>3811609
Original Metroid mate

>>3809057
>protip: theres not bad games for having too much story.

yes there are, they're called xenogears and planescape: torment

>>3808056
That was Miyamoto then, Miyamoto now needs to go.

>>3811354
>Actually claiming intellectual superiority for enjoying stories in videogames.
The greatest stories in vidya make genre fiction look like high literature. You spend spend your time being spoonfed shallow drivel, written by hacks who use interactivity as a crutch to hide their complete inability to write in any capacity.
Games are a complete trainwreck when used as a medium to deliver a story and are incapable of delivering a story that has anything resembling depth. The people using games to engage the problem solving parts of their brain rather than the parts of the mind dealing in abstract thoughts are the ones that are being intellectually engaged. Certainly not you.

>>3809057
yes there is, if im not in the full blown gameplay in 45 minutes why bother

>>3808812
Video game stories are generally written for children and NEETs. The stories in games are only slightly abovie porn-tier.

>>3811864
Legacy of Kain definitely wasn't slightly above porn. Nor Nightmare Creatures, or StarCraft or Quake 2 or . . .

I value the story in a videogame, but have always felt alone in that opinion.

>>3812698

The industry is full of faggots like that and you probably love all of the "press X to win!" cutscene movie shit we have to deal with nowadays. Go read a book or watch a movie, videogames should always be about winning or losing.

>>3810659
Quake

>>3811648
I agree with this. It's a serious problem that games will never overcome.

>>3811648
Also
>problem solving parts
If you really want to stimulate that part of your brain youre better off playing chess or sudoku. Currently, games are closer to a non-athletic sport than anything like that.

>>3812708
>I don't play anything but I'm going to parrot an opinion from people who don't play anything either

>>3811648
*pulls out tits* GENRE FICTION GENRE FICTION GENRE FICTION GENRE FICTION GENRE FICTION GENRE FICTION GENRE FICTION GENRE FICTION GENRE FICTION

>>3812736
>muh e-sports are not games
>it's the olympic GAMES

>>3806761
Story is fine so long as it's not trying to replace the gameplay and isn't forced on you through unskippable cutscenes or rooms where two characters give exposition dumps while you stand around and do nothing.

>>3812739
>Guy is advocating playing games over watching them
>"Surely a strawman where I claim he doesn't play anything will make sense!"

>>3812751
It's more that games are not sports, and e-sports will never be sports until they get regulated like sports.

>>3812708
>nowadays
>the 'game as movie' type of game is less popular than it has been in decades
>still dissatisfied
>>3812779
He is definitely underage

>>3812786
If regulation is the most important criterion for being a sport then... fuck I mean why even have the word "sport"?

Sports are games and games are sports.

In fact, we should throw out both words and call it a "play-y lose-y win-y thing that you do"

>>3812786
>and e-sports will never be sports until they get regulated like sports.
Is smash a sport?

>>3812797
>fuck I mean why even have the word "sport"?
To describe an organized and regulated competition of skill

>>3812858
In my view you only really need the last bit. I don't think you need an organization to go with every sport. You can invent a sport on the spot, not have an organization that regulates it, and still be able to play it. All sports started out that way before they ever had an org to go along with them. Requiring that for the definition is just silliness.

>>3812886
What you do need is rules. But e-sports already have those. All contracts and transactions and standards and rules and laws are just agreements between individuals. That's it.

I think story is a way to give a game perspective for those who need that perspective/want that perspective. You don't really need Pong, or Tetris to have complex narratives to consider them good games.

I think that interactive media has great potential in conveying a narrative to it's player, but I've rarely seen any game that tries to tell it's story through it's gameplay. Most of it's either in text boxes or cutscenes, which have very little to do with the game space. (Unless you count BioWare style dialogue wheels, in which the "game" is choosing the optimal answer for whichever character to help you interact with the game outside of those dialogue wheels, but in my view that's jarring. I do understand people think it's immersive, though.)

When thinking of examples of games that convey their narrative through gameplay, I can only think of two. Super Metroid for one, which has it's entire climax as an in-game scenario in which you never have control taken away from your character. Bioshock is another, a game that gives a narrative reason behind it's linearity, (Though that mechanism is also used as an excuse for what amounts to heavily scripted cutscenes.) I'm sure there are more examples, but nothing springs to mind.

Point being, I can see where some people would find plot and lore in their videogames to be superfluous. There aren't many games that have explored ideas that literature hasn't already tackled a million times over. That being said, a story telling medium that is also interactive has the potential of greater immersion in that story, as your actions have the potential of directly influencing the pace, and direction of that story.

TL;DR Games don't need story, but good story in games ain't bad neither.