Upscaling and modern displays

>>3798015
For that cost you could build a PC with an analog capture card.

>>3798018
Analog capture? You on crack son?

The 'meister is specialized hardware similar to a good scaler chip in an LCD or previously found in DVD/hi-fi systems prior to widespread HDTV adoption. It accels in taking an RGB scart signal and upscaling to HDMI. But its analog DA chips are also some of the best for cleaning up an inherently bad analog signal possible.

The BEST analog capture cards are absolute dogshit. They crush black levels horrible, don't scale, and need tweaking to remove adverse combing, etc. Also, if a cap card was intended for realtime MPEG2/4 capture; it usually has buffering delay built in and can be difficult to disable.

In short, apples to dogturds.

>>3798015
>THREE HUNDRED american dollars
For that money you could get a bunch of nice CRTs

>>3798020
I have no idea what combing means in terms of video.

But even shit mpeg cards, and I have one, normally will output raw data if you know how to ask them with no lag at all.

mplayer -vf pp=lb /dev/video0 -ni

Is all I have to do with my card, which is an ancient shitty Hauppauge PVR150. Scaling, post processing? You can do that in software without specialized hardware. If we're talking about 1080 or less up-scaling and post processing then you can build a small computer for less then three hundred dollars to do that.

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>>3798020
>accels

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OSSC RESTOCK WHEN?!?!

>>3798124
Soon. And when it does, you can post this again, because all 30 of them are going to sell out in less than a minute.

>>3798124
Get good and build your own.

>>3798171
that would require buying equipment costing more than a framemeister, a superior product in (almost) every way.

all I have is a soldering iron, so the rest would just be wasted.

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>>3798025
No you couldnt. You could MAYBE 3 "nice" CRTs.

>>3798015
Depends on your goals & where you are in life. If you are a poor fag or mega young. Hold off.

I just moved into my first grown up house, and got a big dumb TV as my primary man cave TV, but I love playing retro games on original hardware.

Framemeister is PERFECT for that. Especially if you are able to cheap out on a tv to balance out the price of the Framemeister.

I got an older 60inch Plasma for $100 on Craigslist, then got used Framemeister on ebay that was already converted to english in the firmware & on the remote for about $300 (granted this was last summer before the supposed Framemeister discontinuing)

$400 for seeing your favorite original hardware crispy sharp and in giant it pretty incredible.

Have some Street Fighter Alpha 2 on Saturn via Scart. (10 year old Vizio plasma + framemeister, photo taken by a shitty photographer- me, with an iPad)

>>3798124
>>3798160
OSSC is impossible to get your hands on when you want, and then on top of that you need to jump through even more hoops to get the audio out. Other than the price, the only advantage that OSSC has over Framemeister is not fucking up switching between 240/480.

It really hurts the experience of Rival Schools when the picture of the screen cuts out during the 480 loading screen and then pops back on in 240 but you are already 3 seconds into the fight. You have to block during the transition or risk losing the round.

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>>3798253
>original hardware

>Framemeister and a plasma

>>3798253
Thanks man, the "personal experience" post is what I wanted when I started the thread. I'm mostly concerned with the fact that Framemeister production is going to end soon like you said, and I don't want to miss the boat if emulation/VC/PSN/retron etc is where everyone ends up going. It looks like I have a good while left, but not too long.

I mostly am concerned with input lag, 2 frames sounds like a lot on top of my TV compared to the CRTs I have (technically what, 0.5 frames?). I really don't want to pull the trigger and then feel like I wasted money, when I could have just gotten a TV with a decent/fast upscaler built in (and the appropriate rgb converters I already own). i/p switching taking a while seems like a tolerable downside (until I run across a game with different resolution menus of course)

Is your screenshot using the scanline overlay? The phonedork review says fake scanlines work a lot better on 720p, but what is 720p, it's 1280x720, right? Every 720p TV sold new today is some bastardized resolution like 1366x768, almost defeating the point of a good scaling solution. I would probably leave it off, use FirebrandX at 5x scale at 1080p and eat the overscan.

>>3798284
Plasma for no lag. Framemeister for scanlines & to maximize RGB on a nonCRT.

I'm too old to be hunched over a tiny TV to play retro games I want to sit back on my couch and enjoy the details in large size.

That being said, I also have a 14inch PVM set up at my work desk, and a 36 inch Trinitron for my Playseat+Logitech G27 Arcade Racer Setup & LightGun games.

Once you are 30+ you can't have 4 friends over to play video games and try to play multiplayer on a 27inch screen.

GO BIG OR GO HOME.

>>3798285
Rumor is that this framemeister is going to be discontinued, but a new one is coming after that.

My TV is the Vizio VM60p. It mainly does 720p...its 1080p is some weird simulated 1080 supposedly and I'm not sure exactly how that works.

But yes my photo is with the scanlines on. I try to keep it on pretty much all the time. NES to Dreamcast look amazing.

I still need to fiddle with Gamecube via Component and those systems because from what I remember I was a bit disappointed with my Gamecube results even with the almighty component cables. I recall liking it in 480i.

As for lag, I just threw on MegaManX and I didnt get a bit of lag...if lag is a concern I'd consider plasma. When I knew I wanted to do this set up I went out of my way to go plasma in order to avoid lag.

>>3798253
>OSSC is impossible to get your hands on when you want
Subscribed to mailing list in September and purchased it in November. For consoles with SCART output audio goes through 3.5mm jack.

>>3798308
Not everyone seems to be lucky to get one when they want one. Right now they seem to be out of stock.

Also I've got:
>Scart
Saturn
Dreamcast
N64
SNES
Genesis
Playstation 1

>Component
Gamecube
OG Xbox
Wii U (Shovel Knight, Freedom Planet & VC)

How would I get Audio in from my component consoles without a headache.

Framemeister makes things WAY easier on that front. Plus HDMI input for my laptop when I want to watch Anime w/ scanlines.

>>3798178
Top kek kid. You just buy the bits and put them together with your soldering iron. Well not you of course but a person of normal intelligence.

>>3798317
I thought maybe I'd get a short list of tools in a (you), good to know the iron is all I need. Thanks anon

>>3798315
>How would I get Audio in from my component consoles without a headache.
You take two RCA cables that carry sound, 2xRCA to 3.5mm adapter and plug it in.
>Not everyone seems to be lucky to get one when they want one
With things like OSSC you really have to rhink in advance and follow the project. Not that easy as simply buying one, but result is worth it.

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>>3798418
Wait. The OSSC has a 3.5mm audio in now too? I know there is a new audio board one can buy and install/pay to have installed for digital audio. I am losing out with my older OSSC, when it was claimed to be updatable with firmware via the MicroSD card slot/USB pins, I did not anticipate having to continually get more modules to soldier on with the updates. I have been just directly plugging the audio into a sound system, when sending component into the OSSC to output just the video.


>>3798015
>>3798285
Worth all depends on what you want to do with it. I paid significantly less than $300USD for the Framemeister, but I have gotten more than the price in how I value using it.

It has been said they will have enough stock for months after buying out the remaining chips. Micomsoft had 5 other upscaler products prior to the Framemeister appropriate to their time, so I am guessing the sucessor may be designed for 4k output.

The 2 frames of lag, I can adjust and adapt for capture purposes. I figure if needed for higher level play like for fighting games, rhythm games, or speedrunning I could feel the lag but there are alternatives. Resolution/output swiching delays were the first issue I ever had with the Framemeister, which were not present when I was using the XRGB2 to a computer CRT back in the day. I don't consider the delay tolerable as those 3-5 seconds feel like an eternity when you don't want it, and when it may frequently happen if menus or title/game over screens are displayed/accessed. I have not checked up on TVs, but which ones have decent/fast upscalers? I have wondered about new good 720P monitors, as 1080P is less useful to me, given the old consoles and a lot of modern-ish consoles typically rendering at below 1080P anyway.

You are right with 720P being 1280x720. That is why I figure 4k is more important than 1080P, as it is evenly divisible by 240, 720, and 1080. Hope that fulfills the "personal experience" you're looking for.

>>3798513
>2 frames of lag

Framemeister adds ~20ms of input lag
1 frame = ~16.67ms

how did you get 2 frames? Did you just round up like crazy and use retard math, or did you also add display (LCD) lag?

>>3798020
>obviously never used the sc512/PEXHDCAP

>>3798513
>Wait. The OSSC has a 3.5mm audio in now too?
I fucked up. I really did.
No, just 3.5mm output for SCART input. For Component consoles he jsut has to plug audio cables into his audio system.

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>>3798531
The latter, as the capture setup I have uses an ASUS LCD display (its color reproduction is awful but claims to have very little lag). When playing normally, my computer (capture machine) has a CRT monitor.

>>3798549
Fuck, how did you manage to get that switch?

>>3798556
Exchange of legal tender for goods and services.

An alien concept I know.

Just get a damn CRT.

>>3798253
>No you couldnt.

I got a decent one for fucking free. People are always looking to get rid of shit. A normie who gets a plasma isn't gonna hang onto their tube tv and throwing it out is more work than letting some jerk swing buy and grab it.

>>3798654
>A normie who gets a plasma
Huh.

>everyone talking about plasmas
Unless you like black bars burnt in to the sides of your screen it may not be a good idea to use a plasma screen for retro games.

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>>3798543
Okay, I was going to get a bit salty since I didn't have the option for a digital audio board and the price is now lower due to Brexit since I got mine.


>>3798556
The one pictured is a JP21 edition, which superg no longer makes but has the files up for any hobbyist/enthusiast to make. The Euro SCART version is available from time to time. I think he's currently focused on a component switch, but soon a lite version of the Euro SCART switch should be available.

>>3798609
Again, you have to be up to date/on mailing lists to know when pre-orders open up etc. Although I think now the gscartw has an open pre-order list.

>>3798654
You initially said NICE. Now you are saying DECENT. There is a difference between nice and decent. A Mercedes is nice, a Honda is decent. A nice CRT is a PVM with 600 TV lines or under, and nowadays you probably arent going to get 3 of those for $300 dollars (you could probably get 2 though).

Can you get a 480i component TV for free...sure. Can any old Joe with no luck and no connections get a PVM for free- highly doubtful. If you are very luck maybe yes. If you have some sort of connections maybe yes. But those are exceptions/rarity.

But honestly, what it comes down to is YOU being happy with YOUR display and it doing what you want it to and not living beyond your means.

Also normies hang on to usable stuff all the time and only let go of it when it becomes an active inconvenience to them.

>>3798715
>burned in black bars on your plasma

How long are you keeping your display on at a time?

I mainly use my laptop on my Plasma so desktop image retention with such a static image should in theory be a huge problem. But it hasn't been outside of the minor nuisance of noticing outlines of tool bars, but the outlines disappear after a few minutes of switching up what is on the screen.

Will you get some ghosting? Sure and its slightly annoying. But I've seen it on my screen during actual gameplay.

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>>3798315
>Wii U VC
oh god why?

>>3798862
Only for limited/difficult to get else where games
>Shovel Knight Wii U
>Freedom Planet Wii U
> Castlevania 3- Wii (because when I bought it unless you had the original cart it was pretty much impossible to run on any other hardware)
> Castlvania Rondo of Blood- Wii (dont care enough about TG to get one, might as well play it here)
> Megaman 9 & 10 Wii (Most "NES" like controller for playing it)

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This is running on snes9gx on wii u via hdmi. My tv says 1080p, is there a way on the wii u or wii (via component) to downscale to 240p or does this look ok for an lcd?

>>3798951
Don't fucking downscale the video to 240p on a LCD
The whole reason upscalers like the framemeiser exsits is because LCDs are fucking shit at upscaling 240p/480i.
Ideally, you should be outputing a resolution equal to your LCD's native rez.
240p is for CRTs.

>>3798015
>is a box that ads fake scanlines and input lag when an emulator can do it for free with less lag worth several hundred US dollars.?
Get a CRT for gods sake.
>>3798294
>Plasma for no lag.
Plasma's still have lag. Just as much if not more than LCD depending on the model. They don't have motion blur though which is a bonus.

>>3798951
The Wii U doesn't support 240p via any output source afaik. I assume you're running that from the HBC in Wii mode? If that's the case, the Wii U is upscaling the Wii's original 480p video to 720p (your TV will say 1080p if you have the Wii U's output set that way). Frankly it does a pretty nice job, and I mean your screenshot looks solid, man. If you like it, use it.

>>3798294
>Plasma for no lag.
Unless it's a really ancient 480i plasma, it'll have similar lag to any LCD TV.

>>3799601
Why would anyone have anything else? Why did they even make anything else.

>>3799902
For computer displays mostly.

The majority of early plasma panels only took VGA or DVI. Home theatre users got an external scaler/tuner box.

Just got 1.80 frames of lag on the manual lag test on Vizio Plasma+Framemeister with little effort to try to get perfect button press timing.

>>3800103
Edit: Down to 1.3 frames. Plus I'm still personally a doofus with bad hand eye coordination.

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>>3800113
>>3800103
button press lag tests are almost worthless. you aren't fast enough because you are human.

the best you can do without a real tester is a camera with a fast shutter, a reference CRT, and some software like 240p test suite. I assume that's what you're using already for the button press test.

>>3798302
You're having issues with your Cube because it can't output an RGB signal unless you're using OEM Nintendo cables,something about a special chip they never licensed out. Otherwise you'll be looking at S-Video even through a component cable.

Heads up for britfags wanting a more than decent scaler

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112304594167

>>3800254
I am using Nintendo OEM Component Cables.

The Framemeister is notoriously disappointing with 480p source content, but it does a great job taking 480i and deinterlacing it. Personally RE: Gamecube+Framemeister I think this is the one time where 480i is better than 480p

>>3800206
Yeah but I just dont want the "lag" to be abysmal. If I can get a 10yr old plasma + a framemeister down to 1.3 frames dollars to donuts that the lag is even less than that due to my human error. My set up giving me 1.3 frames of lag or less is a result I'm more than happy with.

>>3801743
Your human error can just as easily improve the lag as make it worse.

I can get under a frame on the manual lag test but when I daisy chain a CRT and repeat with the other test it's more like 2.5.

The good news is that this proves that you can adapt to any lag present in the system - assuming you know what's coming of course.

just use a crt

Not OP, just pre-ordered a Framemeister with D-Terminal converter and JP21 SNES cable.

Anything I should know besides the ~1 frame input lag?

>>3802457
why JP21 and not yuroscart?
>anything I should know
I'm sure you already know if you bought one, but you'll want to get the firebrandx profiles. Every setting is painstakingly fine-tuned for each console.
http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

in a lot of cases you'll have to choose between 5x scale (giving you overscan similar to 90s crts) and 4x scale, with black bars on the top and bottom. both are better solutions than non-integer scaling.

>>3802496
>why JP21 and not yuroscart?
It was cheaper to get the JP21 bundle + SNES cable than the SCART cables

I'll probably pick up a SCART to RGB cable at some later point

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>>3802496
Hol up, how does the framemeister get the AR right for super nintendo? Wouldn't that techically be "non-integer" to stretch it horizontally to 4:3?

>>3802524
it's still uniform if all the pixels are the same size, iirc

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>>3802586
super nintendo uses 8:7 aspect ratio, relying on televisions stretching it to fit the 4:3 screen, so each pixel ends up slightly wider than tall. that's why when you use an emulator with integer scale, the pixels are square and you get the wrong AR. LCD TVs have square pixels, and only a portion of plasmas use rectangular pixels, so the framemeister still has to overcome this problem.

if you already knew this, what am I missing here?

>>3798253
The OSSC isn't that hard to get as long as you've been on the wait list awhile and you keep an eye on your email. Honestly as far as retro gadgetry goes the hardest thing to get is the Saturn and DC ODEs because they really do sell out within 10 minutes.

Also this goes without saying but the OSSC has less input lag than the Framemeister.

Guys I'm scared, I hate upscalers and my CRT is close to 20 years old. Fuck this gay earth.

>>3798015
If you want a true retro experience you should play on a common CRT screen:

-Bloom TV effects are needed to render the graphics.
-The 4:3 streches the image a little bit.
-The pixels will get fuzzier, and will look better.

>>3802010
What happens when we run out of CRTs to use? They aren't really making any new ones, do we just completely switch over to just using emulators?

>Paying $300 for LAG

>>3802895
We just buy some of the new ones they are making.

>>3802812
>my CRT is close to 20 years old
Get another, keep it as a backup. Learn how to repair CRTs.

>>3802942
What new CRTs?

>>3802997
The ones tards like you don't know about.

>>3803494
Oh, so you're full of shit. Good to know.

>>3803494
They ceased production in 2015, so there are no new CRTs in production.

>>3803821
All the CRT lines in China shut down? I doubt it.

Even if it were true there's likely to be inventory enough for a decade at current demand.

>>3803821
>They
Maybe that just what "they" want you to think. lol

>>3803871
Better believe him. His dad is China.