Which decade was cooler, 80s or 90s?

>>3791795
Trick question: mid-80s to mid-90s.

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>>3791805
nice

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>>3791795
90's had better, more creative, less commercially focused cartoons.

Fite me.

Not including Spongefag tho.

90s

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All subjective but in the following categories I would choose:

>movies
80s
>gamez
90s
>music
90s
>fashion
70s

Winner:
80s ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>3791821
>less commercially focused
Nobody will fight you on that. The 80s was the zenith of making cartoons explicitly to sell a toy line.

>>3791821
Had better animu too.

>>3791795
90s have better videogames than 80s

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Coolness reached terminal density in the early 90s

>>3792038
Pic unrelated

>>3792038
Fuck off, Courtney Love.

>>3791795
The 10s :^)

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>>3792051
When men were still men.

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>>3792040
Nah. Kurt is exactly what I mean. Really the whole heroin chic thing is the deepest, deadliest depth of coolness I can think of in the 80s and 90s. Coolness is about not caring and the ultimate level of a thing is doing it until you die

>>3792059
>this is what junkies actually belief

video game wise I prefer the 90s but the 80s were better in everything else

>>3792038

Thought that was Edge for a second

>>3791795

80's by far. 96-99 were pretty shit, and have more in common with the early 00's

>>3792101

Video games were consistently good until 2004

>>3791795
80s overall. 90s probably had better games though.

>>3791832
90s music was the worst ever. 50s was the last decade with decent fashion.

>'90s had better games and general television
>'80s had better movies and anime

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>>3792038
>>3792059
grunge was the biggest fedora/"stereotypical white beta" thing ever

early 90s was the least cool era ever

>>3792124
>>3791902
>anime
I thought westerners hadn't known about anime before Sailor Moon appeared.

>>3792131
Just because we didn't see them at the time doesn't mean they didn't exist. We now have access to these older works.

>>3792127
I think the problem is that you're attempting to use too wide/too subjective a definition of "cool". It's not the same as "awesome" or "great" or "epic" and definitely very different from being "alpha"/aggro which is actually pretty uncool.

90s were like a more refined version of the 80s with the coolness turned to 11. 00s were turning out pretty good until 9/11 happened and everything regressed. Now we are stuck in the shitty timeline, we will never reach the same levels of cool we had in the 90s.

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>>3792157

>90s were like a more refined version of the 80s with the coolness turned to 11

Yeah...no

>>3792179
>
These were dope sauce back in the mid 90's, had a brown pair although mine weren't That big

>>3792234
I believe my wife has secretly donated mine to Salvation Army.

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>>3792038
If you're going to post degenerates, at least post someone who isn't bad at what he does.

>>3791821
Holy shit, I keep forgetting Spongebob started in 99

>>3791879
>The 80s was the zenith of making cartoons explicitly to sell a toy line.
This was Ronald Reagan's fault for appointing Mark Fowler commissioner of the FCC. They deregulated cartoons, paving the way for half hour commercials masquerading as cartoons
I grew up on 70s cartoons and saw Reagan's impact first hand

>>3791795
90's was America unleashed. Then the internet gave soccer moms a voice which in turn made everyone into a sensitive vagina.

>>3792038

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FklUAoZ6KxY

>>3792779
Nickelodeon died for me the day Sponge Faggot became the go-to toon.

What a fucking waste of potential.

I never cared too much for Hey Arnold, Cat Dog or Wild Thornberries, but I'd take any of those over porous homo any old day.

>>3792038
Hey look, the favorite sellout grunge band of every 90's kid!

Fuck you thanks to you crap genres like pop punk became popular.

>>3792038
lol, he was such a fucking faggot even he couldn't stand himself.

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>>3792038
this thb

>>3794207
Is that faggot wearing eyeshadow?

What a FAG.

>>3794071
go-to toon?

Cherish this thread while it lasts.

>>3794246
You know, Nickelodeons "choice" cartoon?

Do they even do anything else cartoon-wise other than Spongbob anymore?

Reminder to report shitposters on sight.

>>3794297
Just report them.

>>3791795
80s by far. 90s were god awful in every way. Only games got better, and then took a steep decline again once they went 3D.

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>>3794108
Kurt hated that too but he can't be faulted for creating a genre. That's what geniuses do.

>>3794221
That's eyeLINER. Jeez, L290s

>>3794108
>Only unpopular music is good
Kurt probably would have agreed with you more than I do. Teenage angst had paid off well.

>>3794229
/vr/ has been in need of a personality infusion so I namefagged up. It was a great personal sacrifice but I made it.

>>3794260

Dude, everyone knows that spongebob should had ended on the movie, but nickeloden wanted to continue and the creator quit

Ed. Edd, and Eddy on the other hand, Danny made the movie to finally retire the series and himself, he was pissed off already with the SJWNetwork.

as for games, its what anon said, everything ended in 2004

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>>3792179
>those pants
GEEEEEEESE

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>>3794420
Update on >>3792238
Great news we found three pairs sorting my stuff to go. I kept all three just because of this thread.

>>3791795
The current decade is because I can just get all the cool stuff from previous decades.

>>3791805
fpbp

>>3794420
lold

>>3791818
yah but 90-95 > 85-90 tee bee aitch

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>>3792038
Nirvana was and still is overrated as fuck, Alice in Chains has always been the better band and Dave Grohl is ten times better off than if Nirvana had stuck around.

That said Courtney Love is a whore and no one deserves what she's done to Kurt's memory. Fucking that money slut.

>>3791795
The real answer is...

whatever decade you grew up in.

>>3792157
>90s were like a more refined version of the 80s with the coolness turned to 11

The 90s was the tryhard era. Everything was X-TREME 2 THE MAX, the jiggy era of hip hop, bands trying to out-alternative to each other, forced 70s retro, pseudo futuristic shit. All of it was in trying to get out of the 80s shadow.

Movies were getting less hammy and cheesier, but it also was the growing pains of CGI that looked shitty.

Games were good. 2D matured in the 90s, and 3D was a brave new world where you could imagine the possibilities to come. The worst thing about 90s gaming was the shitty load times of CDs.

>>3791795

80s were definitely cooler. But cool isn't everything, and I'll take the decade that brought the internet to the public.

>>3792769
>what he does

Lots of heroin?

>>3792062
No it isn't. Junkies just want more heroin.

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>>3798173
I can agree with that, and Layne Staley died an even cooler death, managing to be so withdrawn that his body got a chance to rot before it was discovered despite his superstar status. I considered posting him, too. Probably wouldn't have got as many replies though.

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>>3791805
This

>>3798795
I wonder how and why all changed from a decade to another. You can watch a movie from 89 with a completely 80's vibe and a movie from 92 that looks and feels completely different (see Friday the 13th series as an exemple). But that doesn't apply everywhere, first 90's were still pretty close to 80's in japanese media.

>>3791805
There really is no 80s/90s distinction to be made, is there? Things really change between mid-80s to mid-90s and mid-90s to mid-00s. Having grown up mid-90s to mid-00s, I naturally prefer that era. However, in hindsight only the first half (late 90s) was actually good. The second half (early 00s) bleeds too much into the shitfest of everything that came after.

>>3792038
Coolness died with him. No one has been cool since :'( (<sincere post-ironic teardrop)

>>3798796
Well Kurt Donald Cobain was probably bad at this as well. I bet there was more baby powder than heroin in his heroin.

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>>3792038
I always thought 80s music was cool

>>3798964
My guess is that they maxed out the 80s vibe, and audiences wanted something different. That was when Gen-Xers, who grew up in the wild 60s and 70s, came to prominence, and didn't want to watch their parents' type of movies anymore.

I guess Japanese culture was more conservative and slower to change. I never experienced Jpop, let alone Jrock until the 90s.

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>>3798994
Maybe not since, but y'all need to recognize that Cobain wasn't the only icon of that time.

'80s had balls. '90s grunge had daddy issues but at least had teeth. The rest of the '90s was new hippies—but at least they were cool and didn't try to start a revolution.

I'd take any of it over what we have today though.

>>3799010
i love blasting bag in blagg on the ol stereo with my nes classic while taking a shig in the toilet!! :D

>>3799087
pac > cobain by like a factor of a billion

>>3798795
>The worst thing about 90s gaming was the shitty load times of CDs.

I dunno. I'd also say game companies just flat out abandoning 2D that is proven and works to rush to 3D, even if the 3D did not work a lot of the time, was pretty bad too. By works I mean gameplay wise.

>>3792121
>90s music was the worst ever
How does it feel having objectively shit taste anon?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRwnUM10mf4

>>3799087
I have no idea who that is.

We can all agree that the 10s have been the worst so far in therms of music, cinema, video gaming and the overall zeitgeist, right?

>>3799398
Agreed. Easily the worst culture I've ever experienced which is a shame considering how optimistic and positive the '00s were, making me feel like great things could be ahead.

>>3799398
>>3799492
hahahahahahaha

absolute morons if you think this is true. take off your rose-colored glasses or at least try to participate in life going on around you.

>>3799540
Outside of having wider access to media of the past I don't see how the 10's are any good with it's vaporwaves, trap raps, AAA games that are cinematics over substance, indie games that fail to pay proper tribute to the games they take influence from, post-modernist tumblr humor, trashy netflix films, and social movements like sjw and the alt-right forcing their politics into everything.

>>3799540
Nah I'm glad I met my future wife in '09. I haven't met a single girl since who would be capable of making a life-long commitment and the party scene has basically become a joke. The only good thing is that literally every girl is ashamed of her dirty side and wants it to be a secret.

>>3799562
>The only good thing is that literally every girl is ashamed of her dirty side and wants it to be a secret.

what world do you live in

>>3791795
70's

>>3799612
Sorry I should have specified every girl who isn't a disgusting sack of shit with multicolored hair.

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>>3792121
>90s music
>bad

>>3799492
I can't feel any difference between 00's and 10's, to me all is more or less the same. 2010 it's like yesterday, I can't even assume we are in 2017, I guess that's how old people feels. It sucks.

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>>3799679
Don't let it flag you. To get /co/ related "retro" (I wish) Doonesbury always had theme parties about the immediately preceding decade (e.g. 70s parties in 1980) and it was and still is funny what people thought then was culturally significant about the recent past. A lot of it wasn't what you'd think from our level of hindsight - and a lot of what we instantly associate they overlooked.

>>3792127
Grunge gets the credit for killing the abomination that was glam rock / hair metal. The hard rock that came after grunge was also way worse

>>3799679
>I can't even assume we are in 2017
That's because you're stoned off your ass. Old people. Even those twice your age, in their mid 30's, feel the same way. When they're stoned off their ass.

>>3791795
16 bits and PSX era was the truly vidya golden age.

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>>3799825
Wrong. Early '80s arcade is the golden age.

>>3792127
grunge is and always was awesome and nothing you say can change that

>>3792127
I am not going to assume that you weren't there, but the circle-jerking, misogynistic pseudo-intellectualism I associate with the fedora crowd was not in the grunge scene, when I was in high school. As I recall, grunge was navel-gazing Id, not fake gentleman posturing. There were intelligent people making music, and it was always more insightful than hair-metal and meathead rock. but grunge rock always had a gritty DIY aesthetic. it was the music of skaters and tinkerers and hackers. Doers, not posers. Angsty, maladjusted doers, but still doers.

>>3799393
okay, real talk: who the fuck are you, and where are you from? Hip Hop was INESCAPABLE in the 90's, and Tupac Shakur WAS 90's Hip Hop

>>3799398
>>3799492
how funny, because I absolutely disagree. the rise of the ultra-fractured media landscape has expanded the available experience dramatically. there is finally a big enough table for everyone to sit at, and even more satellite tables, if you really want to go off into your own tiny little culture space. so many trends that would have lasted a few years in isolated little corners have gotten global appeal.

think about it, we live under a constant firehose of unbelievably high quality movies, games, tv shows, and music. even getting away from media, DIY culture has lead to a rise in respect for art and crafts. instant feedback through social media has allowed/forced massive corporations to bend to public will and adopt policies and practices that would have been laughed at in the 70's and 80's. the idea that a company would willingly force its supply chain to use solar power, give away free programming classes to little girls, promote TRANSGENDER rights (let alone gay rights) would have been inconceivable 20 years ago.

since 2010, people have been getting smarter, more interesting, more connected, and more aware by the minute.

>>3799554
the fact that all that shit exists at the same time kind of disproves your point. Neither AAA, nor Indie games existed before the 00"s. ultra niche music genres like Vaporwave or Trap could never exist if they had to compete for air time with mainstream pop acts. shitty Netflix is predicated on the existence of any Netflix, period. That, in and of itself, is a revelation. Extremist philosophical camps like alt-right and SJW (which is at least 90% alt-right meme) means that enough people are paying attention, and able to connect that these groups even have the chance to arise.

if someone is using all these channels and resources for evil, that means that more people are using them for good

>>3799621
the vast ocean of self-produced porn would disagree with you.

>>3799893
>unbelievably high quality movies
You're right about a lot of things, but this one is especially egregious bullshit, sir.

It's scary how modern american media is trying so hard to ignite a civil war by influencing groups such as the new left and indirectly giving birth to reactionary forces such as the alt-right. Like back in 2005 everyone thought that racism was a thing of the past, but forward to 2017 and you have CNN seriously complaining that the reason Beyonce lost the Grammies to Adele was because of systematic racism. Trump himself wouldn't have been elected if people weren't so sick of SJWs and their absurd policies. And everyone is too busy throwing shit at each other instead of noticing any real perpetrators.

I won't say that the times we live in right now are "bad" per se, but undoubtedly they're extremely dark.

>>3800006
Can you give me some kimd of sourcing on Beyonce comment? That sounds like a msnbc Joy Reid kind of comment more than CNN. But Don Lemon has been known to go full retard now and then.

Honestly, pop music and award shows are bourgeois to the point of total non-import anyway

>>3799893
>this is what naive pollyanna dropkicks actually believe

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>>3799893
>everybody has unlimited access to ever-incresingly tailor made vapid trash

>>3799893
What are you twelve? Because you could only possibly defend this time in which we live if you are in fact twelve. The 10s have been the worst decade since the pinnacle of human civilization that was the time around the year 2000. The two watershed moments have been 9/11 and the great recession. It's all downhill from here.

>>3792038
Cuck Cobean

>>3792769
Cobain wasn't that bad. He was artistically gifted enough to realize you don't necessarily NEED sophisticated instrumentation or lyrics to produce good songs. Most of the time, the attempts of bands to produce sophisticated instrumentation would result in shitty cacophonies and attempts to write sophisticated lyrics would result in cringeworthy verses.

He presented an interesting and refreshing minimalist philosophy of music by writing blatantly simplistic melodies and lyrics that were self-aware stupid, but nevertheless working them into good songs. Compared to shit like glam rock, less became more, and his experiment succeeded even beyond his own expectations.

I'd argue that his minimalist approach can't produce true masterpieces though (if you actively avoid sophisticated instrumentation and lyrics), but it's also the reason why almost none of the songs Nirvana produced were total shit.

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>>3792038
ya. sure.

>>3791821
I grew up in the '80s, but the first few seasons of Spongebob were pretty dope.

>>3799893
>the idea that a company would willingly force its supply chain to use solar power, give away free programming classes to little girls, promote TRANSGENDER rights (let alone gay rights) would have been inconceivable 20 years ago.
This is supposed to be a good thing?

>>3799817
I'm in my 30's already and I find the assumption I smoke marijuanas really insulting!

>>3800624

Nigga if it wasn't for their producer Nirvana would sound like shit

>>3800761
Which album/producer/engineer are you referring to

>>3800753
>assumption
Dude, you don't even know what year it is. Honestly I was thinking something stronger than weed.

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>>3800829
It's not my fault years pass so damn fast. I mean, I still call Ps3/360 "next-gen" and they are working in new consoles I don't even know how they are called, things just go too fast.

>>3791795
90's, since games started to be cool with final fight

Did anything good come out of the turn of the millenium?

Imagine being born in the 80s/early 90s, and for your entire childhood the onky thing you can think of is the marvh towards the new millenia

Then it finally happens, you fly facefirst into the future, and the only thing memorable from that first decade is 9/11 and maybe the iPod

>>3800910
Highspeed internet became mainstream, good cgi and comic book movies, and America elected its first black president.

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>>3800624
Yes exactly this I literally could not have said it better myself. Furthermore, "not trying too hard" is literally the definition of cool.

>>3800685
I love Led Zeppelin music and Page is a technical virtuoso but having your nips out on stage isn't cool. Also they had little to no originality and are almost a cover band

>>3798795
>The 90s was the tryhard era. Everything was X-TREME 2 THE MAX, the jiggy era of hip hop, bands trying to out-alternative to each other, forced 70s retro, pseudo futuristic shit.

That was toward the end of the 90's.

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>>3800910
60s–early 90s gave us a great load of entertainment. 2000s gave us the means to pirate it. The latter destroyed music industry more than MTV could ever hope for with its "looks >>> music" approach.

>>3800938
none of those are good things

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>>3800974
>People literally only listened to CDs and cassettes for a decade from '92-'02 and people today are buying LPs again in notable quantities
How interesting

>>3800975
Do you think mainstream high speed internet is bad because it keeps people at home? Do you think that if people could go to a retail location and pay by the gigabyte for insanely high transfer speeds that they would? What do you think places like that would be like and what kind of social effect would they have?

>>3800975

So you'd rather have expensive and slow internet? Do you realize 4chan would be unusable without it?

Comic book movies are a benign form of entertainment enjoyed by lots of people. If it's not your cup of tea, more power to you.

Obama being elected showed that you don't have to be white to lead America, and that America means what it says about equal opportunity as far as that goes. And before you spout "muh affirmative action" and "enrollment quotas", I don't necessarily agree with those either.

>>3800968
True, but the early 90s didn't have much going for it other than being leftovers from the 80s.

What represents the 90s as a whole to you?

>>3800974
>destroyed music industry

Only thing it is destroying is the greedy jew publishers. Artists can get direct revenue now; their income has never been higher.

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>>3791805
nice

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>>3801008
>4chan would be unusable without high speed internet

>>3801015
yeah nah thats bullshit. jews gonna jew no matter what you do.

But this did kill off a lot of originality, because it becomes harder to make revenue.

piracy killed the album. that much is for sure. because of piracy meaning people will usually download one song at a time, artists make more singles than anything, and even then, only the ones who are massive mediawhores survive. gone are the days of one hit wonders, where every other song on the radio was from some artist who you would never hear from again

>>3801023
Have you lived through the BBS days? That smug pic of yours would've taken forever to get to me, and by the time it loaded line by line, I wouldn't have cared, because internet time was too precious to waste on stuff that wasn't porn.

>>3798795
>The 90s was the tryhard era. Everything was X-TREME 2 THE MAX, the jiggy era of hip hop, bands trying to out-alternative to each other, forced 70s retro, pseudo futuristic shit. All of it was in trying to get out of the 80s shadow.
How are any of thrse things bad exactly?

The 70's was the best decade for music so I don't see how taking influence from it is a terrible thing. 90's pseudo-futurism was more refined and much less cringe than today's retrofuturism wank (be honest: would rather have The Designers Republic's minimalist design, or would you rather have vaporwave with it's ironic use of CGI and badly photoshopped new age pics?). Xtremeness was also good for it's entertainment value, it really made the 20th century go out with a bang.

Everything you hate the 90's for is precisely what made them great, basically.

>>3801012
See above.

>>3799390
>I dunno. I'd also say game companies just flat out abandoning 2D that is proven and works to rush to 3D, even if the 3D did not work a lot of the time, was pretty bad too. By works I mean gameplay wise.

There definitely growing pains, and a lot of it ugly, but it was all necessary to get to where 3D was good.

If you weren't into fighters, or were into 2D platformers, then yeah it did suck. Or if you simply liked the look of 2D, that wasn't a good time.

>>3801052
Where did I say I hated any of it or that it was bad? I was just describing it, there wasn't any judgement in what I said, so don't use me as a strawman. Brush up on your reading comprehension skills, skippy.

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>>3801038
I was a SysOp in the early 90s my first modem was 2400bps and when I stopped the BBS and moved to AOL to get TCP/IP in '94 I had a 14.4k v.32bis. While plenty of people downloaded porn images that size or bigger from my adult directories it's not unreasonable to claim the 5 minutes it would have taken to transfer my Torment Costanza image at 2400bps wouldn't have been worth it, the 3.16k thumbnail would have transferred in only 10 seconds during which you probably could have read my post and began formulating your clever reply. Knock that down to a blistering 1.7 seconds at 14.4v.32 who could possibly come up with such comedy in that amount of time? Truly, the future was here.

Has it ever occured to you the reason that 4chan is disproportionately crawling with third worlders is precisely because they don't have the high speed internet required to use other websites?

>>3801091
Picture compression was shit back then, and getting the pictures in the first place was inconvenient. 4chan is built on cheap picture memes, people wouldn't have wasted their time to troll with pictures, not at nearly the same rate as they do now, with highspeed.

Last time I checked you can turn off the loading of the pictures if bandwidth is scarce. Back then bandwidth was scarce for everybody.

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>>3801015
I love how as soon as the talk touches music business, the music crowd goes hard-on communist. Oh, the irony: all those leftist musicians raised the generation that would take their products for free and call them greedy jews for preventing them to do so. It's almost like people need to get paid for their work, isn't it?

>>3791795
80s was cool.
90s was rad.

Get it right, faggots.

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>>3801029
Pretty much this—and the divide resembles the vidya industry a bit.

In music today, it's mostly either bedroom laptop producers, or huge, thoroughly commercialized artists with Hollywood looks, who are complete products of market research, made up by teams of producers, songwriters, stylists, etc.

And what about games? Almost the same thing. You have your shit indie/mobile market, and you have your AAA titles with Hollywood budgets.

In both cases, if you're an author and you want control over your creation, the only road for you lies in the indie gutter (see industry bums like Yu Suzuki, Iga, etc). And the overall focus on looks has hit both music (after MTV and boy bands/Spice Girls) and gaming (thanks, 50 million budgets on graphics).

>>3791795
everything was better in the 90s except movies and MAYBE comics

>>3801121
>the music crowd goes hard-on communist.
>/vr/ doesn't understand what communist means

Color me surprised.

>>3791795
late 90s > late 80s > early 80s > early 90s

>>3801174
I think it's you who doesn't understand what I said. People think that some property (in this case music) belongs to community. This is the definition of communism. And this is why the album died and music went to shit.

>>3801196
>This is the definition of communism.
I think you need a dictionary.

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>>3792038
>Coolness reached terminal density in the late 90s
Fixed that for you, jackass

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>>3801202
Learn to read, millennial

>>3801223
>weeb
>idol
>cool

>>3801225
>weeb
Are you mentally deficient?

>>3801231
Are you?

>>3801223
>>3801231
>B-b-but muh pc-88 masterpieces aren't just pedo comics

>>3801242
I'm not the one who calls Japanese people weebs.

>>3801245
Are you alright?

>>3801121
Actually one might suggest that at is created for art's sake and of it's created for profit it ceases to be art.

>>3801109
Jpg was created in 92. That pic of the blonde is ANSI and would have clocked in at a few dozen bytes.

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>>3801264
>Actually one might suggest that at is created for art's sake and of it's created for profit it ceases to be art.

If you do that it makes a huge portion of what we think of as art, not art. Which is a debate some people have.

>>3801267
Just because DaVinci was paid to produce the ceiling doesn't mean that was his driving motivation. However, when "artists" expect millions of dollars or else they'll just go into advertising that makes it pretty clear where their motivations lie. Remember when Lars Ulrich went after Napster with full fury? That was definitely not cool.

>>3801264
>Actually one might suggest that at is created for art's sake and of it's created for profit it ceases to be art.
It's both for art, profit and entertainment. Especially when it comes to pop culture.

IMO, the "art can't be bought or sold" meme was forced by snobbish bohemian nobility who didn't have to work for living and had enough gall to consider themselves superior minds. When you're born with a silver spoon in your mouth, daily hassle of peasants seems very low indeed.

Today's bohemians usually deal in million dollar paintings of abstract bullshit.

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>>3801271
Michaelangelo, and profit was his motivation, it was a paid commission. He didn't do it for fun, or personal expression, he did it because it was a job. It's literally just a massive illustration job, and most of what we refer to as "fine art" is exactly the same. There is some that was done for purely "artsy" reasons, but it's not the bulk.

There's nothing wrong with either, and I still think both are art in my opinion. Sincerely, working artist.

>>3801264
You're saying that some tacky J-POP garbage idol is cooler than the beer-drinking badass character who took the country by storm and became a face of the zeitgest by his coolness alone. Not only that it's cooler, but that it's the paragon of cool for all things to be judged against. Get real. And yes, japanese entertainment culture of the 80s is inherently uncool western kitsch ripoff that looks gay af today.

Moreover, try saying what you said out loud to someone, while pointing at that picture. You'd either get laughed out or receive the most painful wedgie of your life, cause that how uncool and obsolete it is.

>>3801279
>trying to convince jobless NEETs that expecting to be paid for your work isn't stupid/evil
Seriously, you're wasting your time.

>>3801282
meant for
>>3801258

>>3801279
>bald juvenile gestures showing hunk of a pederast is cooler than Japanese female Jesus Christ
I was right when I called you a big fag.

>>3801285
meant for
>>3801282

>>3792179
>disagrees that the 90's were the coolest
>Posts a picture that disproves him

>>3801271
How do you get income then? Do you seriously expect people to work 9 to 5, have time for kids/family, and then devote themselves fully to art? That's a very unrealistic assumption.

They assumed the same in USSR. They tried to prove that workers, given access to high art for free, would aspire to be culturally enriched and create new masterpieces.

And that's how you got the modern slav, top alcohol and tobacco consumption in the world, and all that cheeki breeki stuff.

But I digress. Believe it or not, making music is labor. You need tools, you do mental work. If you disagree, then go and work for free. I'm sure you'll find it's more fair that you give to people and get nothing in return.

>>3801297
Of you have no passion to produce your art then you should stop wasting your time at it.

>>3801285
>run of the mill interchangable japanese doll omega jerk-off fantasy literal who is cooler than the badass incarnate

stone cold is still cool and the attitude is still relevant. your weeb shut-in obsolete picture is forever uncool trash

>>3801307
Not everyone can live off of social security and their parents. I know "work" and "taxes" and having to "pay bills" are foreign concepts to you, but just try to comprehend it. Pretend it's one of your anime dating sims and you can only see the five year-old girl's underwear if you can make enough money from your legitimate job and manage to pay your bills. Pretend the bills are anime preschoolers, and you have to earn money to rape them.

>>3801309
Says the fan of gay porn dudes.

>>3801283
But I hope someone who calls himself "gramps" isn't a NEET living with his mother. That's why I'm quite surprised by his blue sky worldview, especially on a board where half the threads are about buying/selling games

>>3801307
That doesn't answer his question. Art takes time. Good art takes a lot of time. It has nothing to do with passion it has to do with the cost of living and the limited amount of time in a day.

>>3801264
Where were the anonymous imageboards that predate chans? Do you think it's a coincidence that chans came into prominence around the same time broadband became cheap and widespread?

>>3801146
well on the bright side, it is also easier to exist as an independent small artist. for example, perturbator puts out albums all the time.

but you won't hear that on the radio, so it's a double edged sword. this is just the effect of the internet.

indie artists have an easier time existing and putting their stuff out there, but at the same time, far fewer of them ever make it big or leave their indie status, because the music industry is so starved due to piracy that it doesnt take risks and just goes all in on marketed safe shit and generic garbage that sells.

>>3801327
yeah that's why it had two of the the highest rated TV shows in a pretty homophobic time, sure

and who made you the conoisseur of cool, you probably like hot pink and hair metal, get outta here you neon-clad latex glam homo

>>3801307
t. high judge of moral court

You should probably put your post in a frame and hang it above your bed. Mom will be glad you decorated the basement with something

Now to the actual substance of the reply, or more like its absence. You conveniently left out of the equation the work and expenses that go into producing art; the time and talent you need to spend on learning how to code/draw/write/play music, etc. And then you conveniently implied that all the art is done for benefit of the people (i.e., you), so you don't need to pay for it. The artist basically owes it to you; you owe nothing to him. Very smart indeed!

I wonder then, why don't we see new Michelangelos arising from gutters? Remember the old times, when actors and directors made blockbusters for no charge? Lazy greedy fucks won't move a finger for free now. Instead they go make money elsewhere… They are not suited for art, those hacks!

>>3801329
But if only you tried!… Passion is what changes the word bro! Oh, btw, buy my self-help book, I'll give you a $0.99 discount if you order now with a coupon NOT-A-KEK. Don't you dare to leak it though, I'll find your address and call cops. Thank u

>>3801351
>gay TV shows were popular when gays were afraid to go out
You're not disproving anything here.

>>3801354
>blockbusters
>art
You don't have any idea what you're talking about. You don't want to be an artist you just want to produce media for consumption which is fine. It's just not art.

>>3801371
>ignoring the point

You know nothing of art.

>>3801359
>>3801329
If you aren't willing to suffer for your art then you aren't a fucking artist.

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>>3801376
Are you a child or just retarded?

>>3801375
You sure do like to make a lot of assumptions it's no wonder you think you're creative. Art is done for it's own sake. A true artist creates because he must. He does it FOR HIMSELF. If the art he produces is worth something then he'll profit from it. Period. It's actually very simple. Nobody owes you a living just because you think that of they support you long enough, you might produce something worth a shit eventually. If you aren't actively producing something of value then you are a NEET. "Artist" is NOT a job.

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>>3801342
That's true, I think many people leave one important aspect out of the picture: rock music, above all things, was shaped and created by technology.

It was a very lucky arrangement for artists that allowed them to record and sell songs without caring much about piracy. But they never cared that it was pretty fragile. When Napster came and shit hit the fan, they tried to shame pirates and sent DMCA takedown notices. But they didn't realize their whole business model was crushing before their eyes.

In the end, they never learned how to deal with it. No one found the way to sustain the old profitable model. And streaming is basically them working for tech companies, even radio pays way more—google it if you want.

It's just like in gaming, the very tech advancement ended the golden era of music. Both got too expensive to create to be profitable. Hence it's all about low risks—or low bets. Low risks is mainstream. Low bets are indie.

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>>3801363
Wrestling shows in the 90s emphasized tits and ass more than any time before or since. And it sure as shit wasn't marketed to lesbians.

>>3801363
yes cause the gay audience is somehow the dominant audience of the whole mainstream US while at the same time buying the most merch out of any other tv show, brilliant

you basically can't counter anything because it's all true and only relevant to a very homosexual internet niche and therefore make erroneous assumptions about the other which have no basis in reality. 80s japan is gay and so are you

>>3801384
You speak like a complete child talking about things you know nothing about. No one owes me a living, I make my own living and I do that through art.

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>>3801363

>>3801392
Then what are you crying about? Does the recognition as an artist by random anonymous people who haven't even seen what you create that important to you? That's a real indicator that it isn't. Since we're speculating I'll go ahead and speculate that you are aware on some level that whatever consumer media you are producing falls far short of what you dreamed of creating when you initially began this journey and you probably don't even remember what you once had a passion for.

Speaking for the value of your own art is pathetic.

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>>3801384
>>3801376
See this? This is Maslow's pyramid of needs. You've learned something today. No, it goes from bottom to top, not the other way round.

Also, I like your idea. You're like Mr. Krabs, my favorite character. He always said that if you're a true burger flipper, you won't ask for money. It's all about passion, he said. Words to live by. I hope this kid cartoon analogy is easy enough for you

>>3801402
I'm not crying about anything, I am responding because you are talking as if you have this secret understanding of art and what an "artist" is and as a person who makes my living by it and has pursued the visual arts all my life I think you're saying things sound ridiculous.

>>3801384
>"Artist" is NOT a job.
Actually it is, my bohemian hippie friend. It's just that you don't have one

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>>3801008
>So you'd rather have expensive and slow internet? Do you realize 4chan would be unusable without it?
I dunno, it loads pretty fast man.

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>>3801416
>That feel when you argue with a stranger about the benefits of free market, but it turns out he found all of his tech in the junkyard and won his wife shooting dice

>>3801415
I'd be willing to bet he's that super shitty "vr-tan" guy who just does cartoon trace jobs.

>>3801416
What does the catalog look like?

>>3801431
We had 4chan long before the calalog. Also the text boards used to be fairly active. Most people don't even post images anyways.

>>3801052
>Cringe as an adjective

Opinion discarded.

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>>3799893
The democratization of art hasn't led to a renaissance of any kind. Why do you think we're all here? Even if there was a gem, do you think you'd find it wading through a post-Greenlight Steam? And they're on track to make it even worse. It's the same with every industry. A whole bunch of very, very safe homogeneous products from the industry, and a flood of god-knows-what from the DIY culture. Here we are wishing the conglomerates hadn't gobbled up all the mid-tier studios we loved, the ones who made the real good shit.

>>3801431
Catalog doesn't work without javascript. But you can turn it into an RSS.

>>3799087
Nigga killed a Toddler.

The more I learned of Tupac outside his music the more I dislike him. Shame too since his music was pretty good.

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>>3801454
>The democratization of art hasn't led to a renaissance of any kind.
This, basically. And 20 years ago, I was thinking that this and better graphics would make gaming so much better…

>>3801452
>capitalizing greentext
Post discarded.

>>3801454
>Why do you think we're all here?

What do you mean by this?

>>3801391
>you basically can't counter anything
>liking cute hard working girls is gay, while sweaty naked dudes hugging each other and showing middle finger are cool "badass incarnates"
Sorry, but you have to be a tremendous fruit to even comprehend this line of thought, how can I counter that?

mid 90s > late 90s > early 90s > late 80s > shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mid 80s = early 80s

Reminder to report the samefagging /a/spie.

>>3801415
t. libarts major with gender studies minor

>>3801452
t. vaporwave """"artist""""

>>3801498
>>3801391
Arguing "my taste is so much better than your taste" is pointless and lame in every way.

>>3801436

4chan without fast and convenient ways to post and view images becomes 4chan in name only, not function. Switch everybody's broadband to dialup tomorrow, and 4chan has 1% of the images it has today, the images that /b/ /s/ and /o/ seem to like.

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>>3801534
It depends on the board. /hr/, /s/, /gif/ etc would be heavily affected, most wouldn't. Most people don't even post images and when they do the thumbnail is usually plenty because 90% of the time it's just a meme anyways.

The text boards were literally just 4chan with no images and it was the same thing.

>>3801498
the draw for it was never the wrestling itself but watching various reality stunts, badass guys outwit each other on the mic and hot girls in strip matches, but you'll just ignore or not comprehend that as well; on the other hand, worshiping barely legal japanese teens for their cuteness and cosplay and presenting it as this cutting edge cool thing is the epitome of pathetic and indeed does make you a faggot.

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>>3801534
There's a simple fix to that: file size limits. Then everybody's gotta learn how to properly format and/or compress their images. Pic related, it's 3 kb.

>>3801576
>liking girls makes you a faggot
t. badass guys appreciator

>>3801587
t. beta orbiter dork

Not a weeb but wrestling's pretty gay. I mean watching it ironically to laugh at how ridiculous it is is fine, but unironically thinking it's cool is just... jesus fuck the cringe train has no brakes.

>>3801613
>Dude cringe lmao

This is an 18+ board.

>>3801619
What caused gen-z to be so self-conscious, anyway? Embarrassment is a collectivist thing. Was it the social media?

>>3801619
see
>>3801490

>>3801619
>>3801625
Sorry I triggered your feefees by insulting your naked burly man soap operas.

>>3801606
still less gay than thinking that wrestling is cool

>>3801638
Yeah but don't you appreciate the athleticism? Let's see you pull off a headscissor takedown.

>>3801650
Fair enough I guess. It's still goofy as shit though.

>>3801576
Speak for yourself. Wrestling was once and is again becoming an extremely athletic performance art.
WWF was all about the shit you're talking about, but 50s-80s NWA, 70s-current NJPW, ROH, PWG and Britain have always been about a sport presentation. Lots of people were fooled, but many more knew it was predetermined. It's amazing how artful the Puro and Brit styles of wrestling really are.
See Shinsuke Nakamura v Ibushi from Wrestle Kingdom 9, or Regal v Cesaro on NXT, which is just Regal having a match in retirement for shiggles.
Fuckin art, mang.

>>3801663
which is exactly why no one gives a shit about it anymore and why it regained the gay reputation that braindead retard keeps mentioning in every post. no one in their right mind wants to watch flabby midgets fake fight and roll around on the floor while hugging each other, people used to watch it for the spectacle and charisma which was what made it cool. you know, the entertainment show aspect of it.

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>>3801687
>flabby

top kek m8, have some Kenny Omega disrespecting Ricochet

>rasslin
I know some dudes in their 40s and they were reminiscing about late 80s rasslin. They were like 'dooood remember that moment when blah blah blah it was soooo cooool' and then they looked it up on YouTube and they were like 'this is fake as fuck'.

>>3801738
The fake thing is for marks.
MMA people are the worst about this.
We always knew it was "fake". It's not supposed to be a real fight. If it was, they'd be fuckin dead because they wrestle literally every night in many cases.

I mean, I dunno dude, Dean Malenko vs Joe Malenko in Japan in 1989 still holds up.
It's permissive, that's the thing that blows away a lot of real fight fans, they can't get over how permissive it is. That's what makes it mean more to fans. These guys concuss each other in order to entertain. It's not supposed to be a fight, it's a dance, a brutal dance.
Once you see how it all works, you can tell when people are being stiff with each other. Sometimes they are even stiff, especially in Japan, to show each other RESPECT.
It's pretty heavy.
British wrestlers are renowned for legit stretching dudes just for shits and gigs, because they are bad enough dudes to get away with it.
They especially do this to guys that start to believe the storyline, start to believe they are big badasses. This is one of the best things about guys like Regal and Malenko.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vxclZbFs0U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veqhyYpND5w

>>3801784
I'm gay and I masturbate to MMA so hot

>>3801784
These guys clearly knew it was fake too, but they were still really disappointed to have their childhood memories ruined.

>>3801475
he also killed two crooked-ass cops

you win some you lose some

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>>3801403
>Sex, security of property, friendship and respect by others are all more important than creativity
Said no real artist ever

>>3801410
>I know what art is because I get paid to create
You believe that commercialized media is art.

>>3801738
furthermore, it takes real skill to do some of these legit submission maneuvers without injuring a guy for real. That's the difference between a Shoot or Real Fight and Wrestling-- the wrestling guys try to appear to be killing each other while protecting each other, and the MMA guys legit bash each other's skulls in.
So much more skill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6_s6HgetOY

>>3791821
I love Ren and Stimpy more than anything else but Spongebob isnt too bad. There are way worse cartoons.
Ill choose the 90s. I was born 89.

>>3801403
The hierarchy doesn't imply those things are "more important", it implies they are more basic.

>>3801805
Again, I don't think they were really appreciating it for skill at their age, but more for its badassery, some of which was lost when they saw just how choreographed it is.

>>3801815
I'll take oxygen over peak experiences, thank you very much.

>>3801820
You don't understand. Never mind.

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>>3801803
So, Goya is not a real artist? He was a professional painter, you know. I suggest you throw rotten tomatoes at his works.

> Said no real artist ever
Post "real artists" pls, picrelated

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>>3801403
>Hurr muh hierarchy of needs. Art can't be created through suffering / Art eases suffering
>>3801815
>I-it's not to be taken literally
>>3801823
>No U

>>3801817
That really feels like they were marks at the time they watched it, probably little kids, and then as adults they weren't prepared or something.
A lot of that happens when it's that dramatic WWF bullshit, where it was all about the atmosphere at the time and the build at the time.
Like, take something out of the context it was in at the time and it can totally deflate.
Especially if it was 80s american wrestling, all that shit was built on year-long builds, so that most of it was super hypeness kicking in and pouring MSG onto a turd.

Which is why good wrestlers that actual lifelong autismo-fans like me are into, those guys have legit athletic ability.
You know what's interesting is being an autismo-fan, because some guys change their style for a given promoter. Stone Cold Steve Austin was actually once upon a time a serious mechanic, i.e. a very competent technical wrestler. He got a serious neck injury right at the peak of his popularity at WWF, and WWF doesn't have an athletic imperative, it's all entertainment, and Steve is super charismatic, so it all worked out, but it's so bizarre he was once this totally anticharismatic guy who could do beautiful athletic shit, but then became this microphone god who could barely do a tenth of what he used to do physically.

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What are you guys even talking anymore.

>>3801878
The art of wrestling. It defined a generation.

>>3801846
Goya created his masterpieces for their own sake. Hidden away, like Kafka. Dostoyevsky went to fucking prison in Soviet Siberia.

>>3801815
I understand, anon. You have no sex and are unemployed but you need to raise you self-esteem on 4chan. Makes sense

>>3801861
Oh wow, nice. Turns out art needs suffering. And the artist has to bear it and do it for free, or else it's not real art. Sounds a bit like extortion, don't you think?

(Cue the pic of modern "artists" throwing paint on canvas, then selling their elevated masterpieces for big bucks)

>>3801890
Look, Man if there's some emotion you want to evoke or message you want to spread then make art of it. If your art is good maybe people will experience it and be affected by it. That's what art is. If I have to be actively seeking out those feelings and you don't feel it's worth expressing them unless you get paid then that sort of negates the sincerity of the message don't you think?

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>>3801878
Wrestling, psychology, an artist's raison d'etre, the implication that we may be shifting toward a shame culture, the rise and fall of media, what it means to be cool, the 'alternative' reaction to 80s commercialism, how wide is too wide when it comes to pant legs...

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>>3801907
Honestly, profit motive ensures terrible quality.
Everyone knows that, who isn't classcucked by years of market-ideology leaking into everything.
Not everything is or should be about maximizing profit. If you're measuring quality by profit, then you're fucking pozzed already.

>>3801885
>Goya created his masterpieces for their own sake.
Aaaand he took money for them, and was one of the top pro painters in the country. Until he was old and senile and didn't give a fuck anymore. I could as well say McCartney wrote songs for their own sake.

> Hidden away, like Kafka
Literally had nothing to lose. Tuberculeosis and all that.

>Dostoyevsky went to fucking prison in Soviet Siberia.
>Soviet
You retarded or something. Also, yes, Russian nobility were naive idealists who really didn't value life and well deserved suffering for their naive ivory tower ideals.

You also imply those "masterpieces" made some pragmatic change for anyone. They didn't, unless, again, you're a naive idealist faggot.

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>>3801919
>profit motive ensures terrible quality
Like you'd rather be playing SuperTuxKart. Get the fuck out of here with that.

>>3801885
So the only works of Goya that you would consider "art" were the ones he made during a short period when he was incredibly super depressed about being old and deaf (but still sold for a *gasp* profit)?

1985-1995

>>3801885
>>3801943
>soviet
>Dostoyevsky
>soviet

Holy shit how did I miss this? You are aware he died in like 1881 right? You are aware that Bolshevism didn't even exist at the time, much less the fucking Soviets, much less their fucking gulags, right?

/vr/ - Wrestling & Goya

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>>3801919
>profit motive ensures terrible quality.
That's some heavy revisionism bro. Or more like, "it's bad because muh money". Especially since the whole video gaming industry has ALWAYS been about money, whether you like it or not.

Oh, but remember those wonderful free games? Those flash masterpieces of old which changed gaming forever? No? Me neither.

I'd much rather listen to Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden albums made for profit than your "free art", consisting of some unlistenable atonal shit and random sounds because "muh art", thank you. Too bad you can't enjoy it because you're too butthurt everyone thinks you're just a snob.

>>3801986
I don't know if he seems like a snob. Seems to me more like an underage who doesn't want to pay for things and thinks expecting him to makes you some sort of fascist.

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>>3801943
But of course! It's the message that counts, right? Who cares that the old fart had skills, it's whether his message fits the correct opinions I memorized in college.

>>3801996
Nah, I think it's just tumblr is leaking to 4chan. Kids come here and suddenly they're out of their circlejerk. They have nowhere to validate their bullshit but they continue posting because subversion is very persistent in dumb people.

>>3801803
>You believe that commercialized media is art.
Name me your top 5 artists of all time.

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>>3801940
SuperTux 2, however, is real fuckin' good brah.
Go back to /g/ with your shit-tier ten year old memes

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>>3801972
You know what, I paint. All the time. For people I love. I also do work, because I don't want my art to BE work.

This is my friend's newborn. I painted that for him.
Am I SUFFERING for my art? Nah man. I don't have to please some stupid fuck who thinks Capes and Movies go together.

>>3799087

Tupac: babby's first rapper

>>3791805
fpbp

If you ditch the 80's, you lose out on all the cool culture.

If you ditch the 90's, you lose out on all the cool tech.

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>>3802094
>You know what, I paint. All the time. For people I love.
How cute. Here's your pat on the head. Do you write, by chance? You could write picrelated.

So, that's it? Do you seriously believe this is some sort of benefit you're bringing to other people Please don't tell me you consider your drawing a moral cause, your "gift" to society. No one gives a fuck aside of people who have to be nice to you, like your friends and relatives.

> This is my friend's newborn. I painted that for him.
…Ummm okay? I'm not sure if to laugh or feel bad for you.

Let me give you and advice, you will find far more self-validation on some other site. It starts with 'r' and ends with 't'.

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>>3801986
>>3801996

You misunderstand. They weren't made SOLELY for money. That they were made for money though, is a reason they were spooked into terrible decisions like "fuck risking CD-ROM" and "We have to do 3D RIGHT FUCKING NOW even though we can finally do 2D perfectly and 3D looks like legos" and "Let's do 32x"

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>>3802126
learn to read faggot, there's more to life than making other men rich. If you're making other men rich with your best work, you're a classcuck.
Why not give your boss your wife's pussy?
I do actual work with my time. Helping the disabled, for money.
I know that doesn't compare with your sweet manager's job at Wendy's you fucking beautiful capitalist dreamboat alpha male.
I'm sure you'll be a billionaire someday.

>he thinks empty consumer crap posters make people as happy as putting hours of work into something only THEY will own.

Here's another painting I did for another person. He gave me stuff he had in exchange, far in excess of what I could have bought with money.

He's an atheist. It's the miracle of the loaves and fishes with Raptor Jesus and the Beatle Disciples.

You don't have friends though, only coworkers, assuming you even have a job at Wendy's and not posting this from your childhood bedroom since your degree was worthless and now even Wendy's won't hire you.

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>>3801938
Goya's black paintings weren't even discovered while he was alive. Kafka had everything to gain from releasing his work but he didn't want people to see it. He made it for its own sake. Dostoyevsky sacrificed his very freedom for his art and you're sitting there suggesting that their shit is no more meaningful than a superbowl commercial.

>>3801919
Pretty much this. It's an exageration to say "terrible quality" but it's not art

>>3801986
See this brings us around to the question of "are video games art?" always a chestnut. It's difficult to nail down but I think the answer is that most video games are not art and video games that are art may not necessarily be the best video games. E.g. Kenji Eno's games. Really, we can pretty easily see the art vanish from certain games sequel by sequel like Metal Gear. Solid. But then again, that was kind of thepoint all along to create a blueprint for video games to be like films which almost never have even the slightest flavor of artistry.

>>3801996
You're taking a lot of shots in the dark here that couldn't be more off target.

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>>3802130
That's a very unrealistic picture. Consoles and games were made for money first, period. Because video game industry is a business first. They have to sell the system and the games. If the series doesn't sell, it gets axed. If it does sell, it gets sequels. Simple as that.

Stakes got higher in 5th gen. Games cost more to develop. Higher budgets = more staff needed, higher risks and higher responsibility. That's when creators take a back seat and marketing department and focus group testing comes first.

All in all, it's a world where creators have little to no control over their creations—good luck if your real name is in the end credits. It got only more true with each gen.

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>>3802132
> he calls other people "faggot"
Had a chuckle, thanks.

> making other men rich
Ahaha bro I like gommunizm too! Don't feed bourgeoise exploiters, right! I suggest you go live to Venezuela, word of advice though: take several rolls of toilet paper with you. Or don't, use your paintings.

> Helping the disabled
Another pat on your head. You're such a nice guy. Upboat to you good sir.

> I know that doesn't compare with your sweet manager's job at Wendy's you fucking beautiful capitalist dreamboat alpha male.
That's why I like to argue with funny people, in hope they shit out a blooded diamond like this.

> You don't have friends though
Wow you don't only draw, you built strawmen too. That's a big one!

So all in all, you're just a full package. Naive worldview: check. Socialist sympathizer: check. Goody-goody attitude… Check, check, check! You were just made for that side… Read it. You know. "Read dit". Yeah. Go ahead and try it. It was tailor made for you. Many upboats to you, you gentleman and scholar.

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If I could live 1998 over and over forever I would

No SJW
No drama
The internet was there but fresh and less tumblr
All the music you would need, all the games you would need, could get a simple nokia cel phone and be happy

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>>3802187
You keep assuming I want your approval. I absolutely don't. If I wanted to please assholes like you, I'd be on Madison Avenue right now making fucking CG Geckos and having middle aged white women rap about salad bars.

The point is the PEOPLE I did the work FOR liked it, often enough that they later gave me cash even though I didn't ask for it.

I do work for love.
Helping disabled people is a literal job I do, because I can choose what jobs I do, and I'd rather do work that is actually necessary to actual society, as opposed to putting out more shit nobody wants and nobody asks for, just to keep Warren Buffet in silk underpants.

>le fallacy fallacy

go to bed, Molycuck

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>>3802190
SNES games were $10-20 brand new at WalMart, man. I had a job as a dishwasher, lived in my parent's basement, smoked kind bud every fucking day, went to high school and got qt-pi high school girl ass, Video Kingdom had hundreds of sweet 80s horror and scifi movies, it was a fuckin' beautiful era.

>>3802190
>If I could live 1998 over and over forever
Would you say it was the peak of our civilization.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwGuSPXPyX4

>>3802158
>their shit is no more meaningful than a superbowl commercial
But it is less meaningful, actually.

You see, there's entertainment and play. These are some of the most basic human needs, coming from animals. You'd say it's low and all that. But then again, Romans swore by it. People nearly killed themselves out of bore. Some people break into cars, steal, or even kill for it. So you'd say it's important.

And there's art as message. It's self actualization, whatever.

Does art really change anything? Realistically, I'd say nope. Does Superbowl commercial? Yes. It satisfies millions of people in a wave of collective ecstasy, bringing feeling of camaraderie and excitement.

And if you think it's too little, you haven't seen countries like USSR and North Korea nearly enough to understand what people need to be happy.

Also, speaking of which: it's ironic how Dostoevsky, Pushkin and such all wrote about the poverty of Russian people. But what did it change, in the end? Their ramblings did virtually nothing. Artificial fertilizers, antibiotics, modern transportation and such did more to solve world poverty than any inspirational quote could ever hope to achieve.

>>3799087
Youre right. Selena was a big icon of the 90s
R.i.p.

>>3802218

I hear ya bro.

>>3802220

We had all we needed. Sure we got a lot of great stuff post 1998, but I the cons outweigh the pros by way to much

Video Games, comics, movies, cartoons and BLOCKBUSTER

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>>3802194
Nice blog bro. You sure showed me myself in the mirror with your strawman. I now see myself a corporate shill and a total sellout. At least that's what you somehow implied from your ass. How, I don't know. You have a wild imagination. You even imagine you might be distantly right.

>>3802245
More than just the entertainment aspect-- We didn't understand what NAFTA meant yet. In 1998 it meant there was a lot of cheap groceries and gasoline. It was fucking great.
Factories were still very much around, you could, with no college, still expect a reasonably middle class future. If you put MORE effort into it and go to college, you were going to be upper middle class or higher unless you were totally irresponsible.

>>3802225
There you have it, I guess. If that's your definition of art there's no point in debating it with you.

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>>3802250

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>>3802256
It was a golden age and we can all agree 1998 is the peak year for gaming, music and enjoyment

We had everything we need that came before and that we got at that moment. 1999 was went the net went public and the flood gates were open to idiots and the beginning of clickbait and ads.

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>>3802261

>>3800948
Yup. Dont even get me started on the willie dixon case.

>>3802190
This guy gets it

>>3802158
>See this brings us around to the question of "are video games art?" always a chestnut. It's difficult to nail down but I think the answer is that most video games are not art and video games that are art may not necessarily be the best video games. E.g. Kenji Eno's games. Really, we can pretty easily see the art vanish from certain games sequel by sequel like Metal Gear. Solid. But then again, that was kind of thepoint all along to create a blueprint for video games to be like films which almost never have even the slightest flavor of artistry.
Video games never really were art. First, they aren't taken seriously by most, thanks in part to Nintendo's image of consoles as child's play.

Second, gaming's most obvious value has always been entertainment. The "artsy" games mostly fail at it. Simply put, they're boring trash.

Third, similar to what you said, whatever those artsy games did, could have been done in movies, comic books, whatever. In fact, if one has a real idea, it's far cheaper and simpler to just write a book or a comic. That's why game stories are usually second-grade.

So no, IMO games are entertainment and they don't really cross with art much. And when they do, they don't present anything really worthy of attention.

>>3801125
80s were rad
90s were da bomb
Were you even there?

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What I would give to have a stress free Friday night after school, hit Blockbuster, rent Chrono Trigger, get a bag of BBQ chips, a bottle of cream soda and have the next 48 hours be rad as FUCK.

>>3791902
Know those are actual words to fight.

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>>3802303
That's an extremely narrow definition of art, you're limiting it to Fine Art, and Fine Art has always been pretentious bullshit. You're forgetting folk art, which is where stuff like Yoshi's Island comes in.
It's for entertainment. If Art doesn't entertain, it's not even art anymore, it exists to meme rich people into buying it for status reasons.
Which is honestly just another kind of entertainment, just a stupid antisocial reason.

Capitalism is inherently empty and antisocial in this way.

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>>3802303
Reframe the question and the answer is simple: are games art--tennis, chess, sudoku, blackjack, charades? Of course not. A video game is a multimedia medium, which usually contains art. The music is art. The spritework is art. So it's like you say, all these incidental aspects that are in no way necessary for the game to function. After all, the concepts can be replicated without sound, with basic shapes or stick figures and the like. And that's often how they begin, with placeholders.

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>>3802326


Glad I'm not the only one who remembers saying Rad when it was Tubular and Gnarly and these were all synonyms, and then five years later going

>neon green was a mistake
while saying
>dude and sweet
to the point it made adults visibly upset

>>3802356
What is performance art?
What is athletics?

Games are absolutely art. Music is a good example of that kind of multidimensionality of art that includes time and participation.

>>3802262
98.
Was that when the big lebowski came out ? I love that movie

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>>3802437
That very year.

Also Verhoeven's Capitalism Trilogy was a thing, and so was Carpenter's Apocalypse Trilogy [The Thing, Prince of Darkness, In The Mouth of Madness]

>>3802364
Yes! Exactly.
So you were there.
I musta just missed you

>>3802446
Ok cool.
I gotta ask.
How the fuck is this a vr thread?
What happened?

>>3802463
I mean, when i came to this thread i thought it was gonna be a war among different videogame camps but there are posts about music n culture of 80s n 90s, the people fivhting about wresling being gay and art being nonprofit.
This just seems more of a /b than a /vr
I aint mad, just tl;dr- ing this thread

>>3802463
I dunno, I came into it well after it started.
Fuck it, Retro is Retro.
I feel the context of vr CAN be relevant to vr.
Besides, I mentioned video games several times in my posts here.

>>3802469
>Fuck it, Retro is Retro.
Word

>>3802303
>First, they aren't taken seriously by most
Why is this relevant?

>The "artsy" games mostly fail at it
Which is to say some succeed

>whatever those artsy games did, could have been done in movies, comic books, whatever.
You're emphasizing the narrative aspect of video games while forgetting some of them are meant to be played with and in. What separates Mario 64 from Superman 64 is the same thing that separates a prison yard from pic related.

>>3802356
Are RPGs games? Stupid question, right? It's right there in the acronym. But what about the RP part? That part needs a story for it to be worthwhile, cos nobody is grinding for shits and giggles. Those stories are often formulaic, but every once in a while a Chrono Trigger comes along, and makes a case as being the greatest choose-your-own-adventure book of all time. Making Chrono Trigger with stick figures doesn't work.

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>>3802559
Fucking forgot the related pic

>>3802559
So-called RPG video games are misleading, because the game part is usually just resource management. There's very little strategy in JRPGs. Games like Fire Emblem are more like board games, for example. But even the role-playing aspect, there is none. There's none of that spontaneous cooperative improv that occurs at a table. Video games can't do that. So they just tell a story; sometimes it's a branching narrative. But no matter how many branches there are, there's really no substitution for the real thing. It's like you say, Chrono Trigger is a really great CYOA. Could've been a picture book. The game part of Chrono Trigger is inconsequential.

>>3801883
Not surprising that boys who grew during that period are marrying each other now

>>3802364
Rad sounded like "tubular" (whatever the fuck that means, never even heard that one until this post) just a couple of years ago, and now suddenly it's back. Next they'll bring back "DA BOMB"

>>3802676
Scratch that. They kind of did with "da bomb dot com"

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>>3802627

>>3802467
I've been following it from the beginning so it's actually been a pretty interesting thread from my point of view. It would be a bit much to go through now.

>>3802342
>that picture
That feeling when (most) manufacturers realized this approach is shitting up our only planet and are actively trying to butter us up for a jobless future.

>>3802258
i just think 'art' is one of those made up words that don't really correspond to anything real or concrete that people then retroactively have long-winded debates about

>>3802245
At least Blockbuster had movies. Netlfix only has (((""""""""""original programming"""""""""")))

But at least you don't have to pick your ass up and go anywhere, right? How far we've fallen...

>>3800693
I guess if you don't like these things, then, no, its terrible. my philosophy is A) long term gains over short term. and B) don't fuck with people. kicking Coal in the teeth in favor of sustainable energy sources that promote job creation serves point A. not brutalizing some guy because he wishes he had tits serves point B. if a few weirdos want to swap clothes and swap genitals, its no skin off my back. I really wonder why rednecks out in Kentucky seem to care so much.

>>3802162
>creators take a back seat and marketing department and focus group testing comes first
So that's why I hate modern games. It all makes sense now.

>>3802782
Not to turn this into a Trump thread (as all the Trumptards from the boondocks seem to come out of the woodwork at the mere mention of any of these issues) but global warming, say, is an issue that most large corporations (save the energy ones) seem to be committed to. Just look at what happened in Davos. If these people are behind this, I can't understand why the Republican base is not. Republicans are the ones who always suck their cocks. Not sure what changed here. Guess it's because business people are circumspect enough to be able to change their stances when presented with enough evidence, whereas most Republicans are ideologues who stand by whatever they initially believed until the day they die no matter what evidence is thrown at them.

>>3801454
how weird that you bash Steam, because a lot of amazing, unique works are available on Steam. in fact, its the success of Steam and Apple's Appstore that forced Microsoft and Sony to open up their systems to Indie games, and now Mods. the fact that the same system that created so many NES hits (small teams working with limited resources, but huge ideas) can still work on cutting edge tech has blown minds at AAA publishing companies.

I completely disagree with you. you are focusing on a tiny downside of the vast ocean of choice that I am talking about.

You are right about one thing, though: the mid-tier productions are drying up. Everything is small devs and DIYers tinkering in their basements, or budget busting mega-hits. the Film industry has seen TV and streaming services step in to fill the void where the mid-budget movie used to be. I don't what will happen to gaming.

One thing I am hoping for with the Nintendo Switch is that being an underpowered system will work in its favor, and it will bring back the fun, quirky, mid-budget games. the iPhone does so well as a gaming system because it is powerful enough to do a lot, but the input forces devs to get creative and cut a lot of bullshit out of their designs. the Switch might do the same thing, by throttling the graphics and forcing devs to focus on tighter, more engaging gameplay. This is Nintendo's usual strength, but they tend to shoot themselves in the foot by shitting on third party publishers and fucking up their hardware a little too much.

>>3791795
80's had some good games, but I find the 90's was a lot more varied and innovative.

>>3802814
I often think to myself how lucky I was to have grown up during the best time in human history (the 90s)

>>3802809
I used to fucking hate steam, then I got a job and didn't pirate so much.

But, still... drm is cancer

>>3802809
>valve
>apple
>nintendo
So much wrong in one place I'm surprised the universe didn't collapse in on itself.

>>3802835
>if apple and nintendo merged the new company would be nipple

>>3802809
Consoles are dying/dead. Let it go

>my childhood was better than other people's childhoods
Sounds kind of like "mine is the one and only true god"

>>3800572
Whew bitter old man.
People who never consciously experienced the nineties are in their twenties now. You are looking through rose tinted glasses. I'm sure people who grew up in the seventies think the 90s were the beginning of the worst age of humanity. That's just a silly thought to even consider.

>>3800993
They are called Internet cafes son and are common place in other countries as the main source of internet.

>>3799492
>'00s
>Optimistic
Maybe until 9/11. The '00s were negative as fuck, especially with the recession. '90s fake angst has nothing on the '00s.

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>>3802570
>There's none of that spontaneous cooperative improv that occurs at a table. Video games can't do that
MMORPGs can do that

>Could've been a picture book. The game part of Chrono Trigger is inconsequential

Turning to page 57 of the book will always result in landing a critical hit, and you can memorize that. A book will never have the thrills that only RNGsus can provide. How you overcome the odds and progress depends on the skill and luck of the player, not how the book is laid out.

>born in 83 here
I can attest that while the mid 80s were cool, but the 90s are ahead by virtue of the vidya market alone

even though the 80s had dose
>better McDonalds toys
>Walkmans. Early CD tech sucked
>m.u.s.c.l.e. men
>saturday morning cartoons

>>3802807
Corporations put on whatever show is required to pander to their customer base.

>>3802907
I can see how you might think that if your perception of the '00s was based entirely on the media but among actual people at least in the US the years immediately following 9/11 were marked by great patriotism and compassion for our fellow Americans as is very common following national tragedy. I suppose in Europe and especially the middle east though, our reaction was seen as dark and ominous. I'll try not to get political about it though since this thread is already divisive enough.

>>3802902
>son
lolokay - there are still countries where Internet cafes are the main source of internet? How primitive. Anyway, upon further thought on the matter it really all (in developed nations at least) to where fiberoptic runs. I guess in areas that are still all copper, cellphone towers have fiber so there could be "gigabit cafes" near towers but towers are usually located in fairly remote places.

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>>3802342
Yes, I was referring to fine art, which some people swear by. Frankly, "artsy" people are like a religious cult: "art" for them is some transcendental form making people closer to meaning of life and laws of the universe (so, basically, closer to god)—and when asked to show or tell what they mean, they reply that "art" defies definition and hiss at you if you say it's just shit (again, just like with all spiritual bullshit). Just like the left in general, it's all Christian white tower ideals in disguise again.

Art has become so cluttered with these people. They made it so amorphous and undefined, that having a serious argument about it simply becomes too hard. It's pretty much deified now for no reason; they specifically emphasize it with virtually empty canvases, absence of skill, but a whole load of hyper-important "message". It's just too haughty to be taken seriously. Most people avoid it by a mile for this reason.

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>>3803556
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it

SCOTUS accidentally coined this gem to refer to pornography but really it fairly applies to art in general. Yes, I consider porn to be art since it evokes an emotional response. That's the real definition of art. and it's necessarily subjective. At its narrowest you have anonymous one-upsmanship "MY tastes are so refined that I am only affected by the greatest/truest/freshest/etc media so only that is real art". At its broadest almost everyone produces art every day.

>>3803581
I fucking had one of these

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>>3803589
I still have one, a Miracle Piano and an accordion despite my piano playing abilities being limited to hunt and peck. At least I can read music.

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>>3801803
>You believe that commercialized media is art.
Except that almost none of the work I do is commercialized. I make paintings and I love that people enjoy buying them enough that I don't have to work a "job".

You can say selling my art makes me not an artist, but I find that statement laughable.

>>3803581
And that's the thing: subjective enjoyment VS objective. That's the whole difference.

Objective is what everyone can perceive and enjoy. It's the thing that can bring people together. Believe it or not, but a lot of components of music are objective: rhythm, octaves, chords, etc. At least all it's perceived by all people.

Subjective is at the root of snobism; it's all about "I see it but you can't, what a pleb". By definition, it's solitary and anti-social.

Another thing about your definition is that you can see art in anything, from Mona Lisa to dog's turd. Is death art? It provokes emotional response, I guess. Then everything is art; picrelated in see >>3803556 .