What make old-school FPS so fast?

Fun was more important than realism.

>>3791215
Literally everything. The games were designed from the ground up to be that way.

Instead of having a run button and needing to stop for breath every 30 seconds you just constantly run. And instead of having regenerating health, so you hide behind cover every 30 seconds, you just have a decent amount of jealth with more dotted around the level. Also you can hoard all the guns you want.

>>3791215
i like how you are slidy in doom

>>3791215
Combat that revolves around constantly moving/dodging.

>>3791215
bad programming

>>3791215
Engine bugs turned into gameplay mechanics by the community like strafe running, bunny hopping, and skiing. Also there were plenty of slower retro FPS games like Rainbow Six and Delta Force.

if call of duty based on quake engine can we make call of duty mod for the quake 1?

>>3791215

They weren't fast. They were just normal. Then everything got slowed down for the consoles.

You're just going back to the default.

>>3791759
>rainbowsix is now retro
What a time.

>>3791952
>1998
I see no problem.

>>3791958
I know it IS retro, I just remember clearly playing Rainbowsix and being amazed how far we've come from doom.

The irony is, doom is still fun and fluent, and rainbow six is uggghhhh well.

>>3791759
>>3791215
>play doom on zdaemon
>deathmatch
>see strafing enemy with shotgun
>shoot at him with chaingun, no effect
>he shoots me once and i die

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Realistic physics and gravity weren't so important back then

>>3791960
Rogue Spear and SWAT 3 play great. OG rainbow six is just rough around the edges.

>>3791215
Not having to aim.

>>3791219

This.

Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_%281993_video_game%29
>John Carmack had to make use of several tricks for these features to run smoothly on home computers of 1993. Most significantly, the Doom engine and levels are not truly three-dimensional; they are internally represented on a single plane, with height differences stored separately as displacements (a similar technique is still used in many games to create expansive outdoor environments). This allows a two-point perspective projection, with several design limitations: for example, it is not possible in the Doom engine to create one room over another room in a level. However, thanks to its two-dimensional property, the environment can be rendered very quickly, using a binary space partitioning method.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_engine
>Although the engine renders a 3D space, that space is projected from a two-dimensional floor plan. The line of sight is always parallel to the floor, walls must be perpendicular to the floors, and it is not possible to create multi-level structures or sloped areas (floors and ceilings with different angles).

>This ordering ensures that no time is used drawing objects that are not visible and as a result maps can become very large without any speed penalty.

>>3792169
I think Duke engine is better as a fast 2.5D, but then again, Duke appeared later.

>>3791215
It's because there's no unneccesary shit, yes. No cover based gameplay, no reloading, no waiting for your health to recover on it's own. The action never stops unless you're lost.

The realism crap from COD just serves to slow games down and remove fun.

>>3791215
Thread hasn't mentioned it probably because underage with this being /vr/ in 2017

Games like CoD and BF are meant to be slow. They're tactical shooters. The big examples being CS and CoD.

Doom and abstract maze shooters of that era generally just walk fast and have tricks like using explosions to jump higher/faster.

Then you got arena FPS like Quake and Unreal which move very fast in mirror to mirror like maps. Trolls will say the rocket jumps are just glitches but the maps are clearly designed for them even in beta.

The last main genre is the TF2 clone. Now that is evolved form the glitch fest of a mod in half life. Gameplay is all about capturing points and rock paper succors mushroom.

The slower games merge onto console a lot better.

>>3791219
Why do people insist that modern FPS games try to be realistic? The only "realism" most of them do is the graphics style. Even Call of Duty is flooded with silly unrealistic gameplay mechanics.

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>>3792523
Neither of those games are tactical shooters.

>>3792531
Goldeneye was arguably the first tactical FPS (albeit not as tactical as the later Rainbow Six, more similar to COD in that sense) and it was still very silly.

>>3792523

Team Fortress started as a Quake mod. I put a lot of hours in Quake TF (mostly 2fort4 or 5) long before Half-Life's TF Classic came out. <spoiler>I preferred the original Quake version honestly.</spoiler>

>>3792671
k
>>3792630
Just what people call them.

>>3792676
I've never heard anyone call Call of Duty or Battlefield a tactical shooter.

>>3792689
I don't understand the igorance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_shooter

>>3791807
>slowed down for consoles
Even games like Turok were relatively fast.

Also, Battlefield started on PC.

>>3792725
BF2 is still based

BF2 is better than 1942 because it was EA's counter-strike approach to the dev team

Trauma Studios did the based Desert Combat mod for 1942, which if you know anything about 1942's engine, is insane how they managed to make a total conversion. So EA brought them into make BF2 totally modern and with funding

Then unlike Valve hiring the CS guys (gooseman/Cliffe), EA promptly fired them TWO WEEKS before launched and handed the franchise back to DICE, who as we all know are incompetent

Which is why every single BF after it lacks soul and is MUH GRAPHICS instead of focusing on the FPS then vehicle parts. I remember taking fall damage sprinting down stairs in BF3 for god sakes

>>3792735
Limit the /v/ memes. BF games after BF2142 are like that because they're BC games with a BF title.

>>3792736
i'm still mad over it anon

i put hundreds of hours into desert combat, trauma was such a small but committed mod team.

BF2 should've been the modern combat chosen one not COD, but EA has nobody to blame but itself

i remember the weeks of hype for the AC-130

>>3792740
BF wouldn't work on consoles. CoD does. Modern gamer cancer likes CoD4 and later also. A fucking lot.

>>3791252
delet this

>>3791215
are you kidding, doom is practically a dungeon crawler you slowly clear room by room and collect loot, find keys and backtrack to doors, pull levers to find secrets, this is a goddamn wizardry with guns unless you already know the game.

>>3791958
The year is 2001.

The main reason FPS's got slower as time went on was a drift toward being 'realistic', and a general gaming pivot toward consoles and their clunky analog sticks that started in the late 90's and didn't really start balancing itself out until the early years of this decade.

If you feel like reading something longer than a few sentences this is a great read on why Doom plays the way it does, and in truth, the root cause of why it plays so well:

http://vectorpoem.com/news/?p=74

>>3793816
So it's safe to say GoldenEye ruined fps?

>>3794028
not at all

it was still arcadey, not as twitchy as doom/quake but no regen health, you weren't limited to 2 guns (infinite pockets), no sprint button, ammo was plentiful, still had to run around and find the occasional "key" for a locked door, etc

what helped ruin FPS' was a combination of many things

a) consoles more prevalent. as previously stated, the sticks are slower, so slower gameplay to adapt to the market
b) medal of honor, more "Cinematic" hollywood-ized scripted stuff, not surprising since it was spielberg's idea when dreamworks still had their game studio
c) regen health, works in Halo lore, but spread everywhere like cancer
d) xbox live/paid online. it became so popular and because money is involved, why have a game based on pure skill, when the masses will just rage quit/not renew their subs, so lower skill floors & ceilings emerged; if everybody things they have a chance they'll want to keep playing

>>3794328
>it was still arcadey, not as twitchy as doom/quake

Dude I don't want to go all autistic on you but Goldeneye is anything but arcadey, it's fucking slow as molasses. This is only made worse by the controller which is quite possibly the WORST controller to ever use for an FPS given its design and poor sensitivity.

I love the game but in retrospective I'd say it almost plays more like a RPG/FPS hybrid (like Deus Ex) than a true FPS.

>>3794525
I don't think it's possible for a post to be more wrong.

>anything but arcadey
The shooting mechanics were practically lifted from Virtua Cop but FPSified

>it's fucking slow
It's fucking faster than modern FPS, but slower than the arena FPS of the time. If it was as slow as you suggest, the speed running times the game itself gives to players would be impossible.

>worst controller ever to use for an FPS given its design and poor sensitivity
Wrong. First up, you have dual stick equivalent with the C buttons. Secondly you've got a trigger beneath the controller, literally perfect trigger placement for shooters. Thirdly, the N64 has one of the most sensitive and intuitively tactile control sticks of all time, with fewer dead zones than later sticks. Seriously, aiming in PD on 360 is harder due to it.

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>>3794028
>>3794328
Halo and CoD ruined FPSes. Nothing else.
>>3794556
Since when is Goldeneye remotely fast?

>>3794556
>The shooting mechanics were practically lifted from Virtua Cop but FPSified
So? Who gives a fuck. Virtua Cop was played with a fucking lightgun.

>It's fucking faster than modern FPS
Yeah, if you sideways strafe everywhere, which is fucking stupid considering how slow turning is in the game.

>First up, you have dual stick equivalent with the C buttons.
Yes, an analog 0 or 1 signal sure makes for some smooooth movement there bucko.

>Thirdly, the N64 has one of the most sensitive and intuitively tactile control sticks of all time, with fewer dead zones than later sticks.
Unless you have an article to back that up you're just pulling shit out of your ass. The tactile feel is great for fighter games but it's pure dog shit when it comes to shooters.

>Secondly-
If this made any sense then the Wii controller would be a better controller for shooters than the dualshock or the xbone controllers. Controller form factor imitating real world form factor is about as stupid as thinking "realism is fun".

desu kys senpai

>>3794678
>So? Who gives a fuck. Virtua Cop was played with a fucking lightgun.
Your lack of imagination says more about you than the game.

>Yeah, if you sideways strafe everywhere, which is fucking stupid
Muh goalpost moving

>Yes, an analog 0 or 1 signal sure makes for some smooooth movement there bucko.
What is a keyboard

>Unless you have an article to back that up you're just pulling shit out of your ass
Optical encoding disks which physically touch the stick are obviously going to have fewer deadzones than potentiometers which rely on electrical change without contact.

>>3791215
18+

>>3794563
Why do you Doomfags hate Halo and COD so much?

>>3794563
>be me
>be 2005
>gta ruined open world games

>>3794703
They're bad games. More so they are ridiculously popular bad games that have ruined PC gaming.

>>3792735
>Which is why every single BF after it lacks soul and is MUH GRAPHICS instead of focusing on the FPS then vehicle parts.

i'd say that's more after the bad company games than after BF2. BF3 was when they started being "muh graphics" & "muh vehicles" while BC2 was probably the last time the series was good.

>>3792745
COD is an interesting thing.

people complain about the series being the same game every year and when they try to go in a direction that's different than what they usually do people complain that it's not the same game and cry for a return to a more boots on the ground gameplay even though the last 3 games that were boots on the ground sucked.

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>>3794703
>it's bad because it's popular
>>>/v/

>>3794747
meant to reply to >>3794709

>>3794747
>>3794751
Not what I said but sure, champ.

>>3794760
>guy asked you a question and you basically replied with "they're bad" and then you added that they're also popular

so what did you say then, kid?

>>3791215
gameplay over cinematic presentation.

CoD
>shit has to feel like you're playing a movie
>every match has to have a moment where you're holding down the fort; ie camping
>weapons are retarded
at least treyarch has attempted at balancing the game but it's still shitty as fuck

Doom/Quake
>no pretensions, you're either hardcore enough to master the game or you go play with your dad's dick
>multiplayer is no frills, all skill
>balls to the wall action, not approved by your mommy

Battlefield does Call of Duty better with the cinematic shit and has better mechanics.

I forgot the speed you run at in Doom but it's a ridiculous amount. It doesn't have to do with the gameplay, it's just that you're running at inhuman speeds.

>>3794768
Bad because popular =/= bad and popular

Nice reading comprehension, kid.

>>3791970
Actually the bhopping thing was just a bug in the engine and the developers never meant it to be played going that fast. It was suppose to be similar to how Unreal Tournament is. Expect you know, not a buggy engine.

>>3794773
you still haven't answered why do you think they're bad, kid.

>>3794776
Which game?

>>3794783
both, kid.

>>3794785
Halo is a babies Quake/unreal mod. Very slow gameplay and regen shields. All the carebear stuff that came with a console fps like auto aim, etc.

Modern CoD is just a poorly optimized console shooter. Regen, auto aim, terrible level desing, etc

>>3794785
Not the other guys arguing but I like Halo and CoD. New Halos seem to be losing their identity but CoD still makes excellent single player campaigns. I guess when people are trash talking these series they must be referring to the multiplayer aspect and how it's not like how it used to be when they were a child playing the games. It's to be expected on a board that lives on nostalgia

>>3794791
There isn't auto aim in the games. It's aim assist. And if you keep moving the stick you will not having your reticle magnetized to the enemy.

>>3794795
>There isn't auto aim in the games. It's aim assist
That is meaningless distinction to me as a PC gamer.

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>>3794791
>i don't play on anything higher than normal difficulty

FTFY kid

>>3794792
You're talking about modern FPSes here. There's no nostalgia.

>>3794801
I fail to see how console trash gets better if you increase the difficulty?

>>3794798
I doubt you ever competed in video games. I don't see why you're so worked up about aim assist on console games. Every top player in CoD turn off aim assist cause it messes with their aim more than it helps. The aim assist is there for terrible players such as yourself to be able to aim properly.

>>3794807
of course you wouldn't know kid you probably play games on easy because normal would be too hard for you.

>>3794810
Your level of competency with a controller in a fps means nothing. Makes for a joke I guess.

>>3794815
I can't tell if you're just a fedora or just a fat guy trying to troll on a video game board.

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>>3794812
Just so we're clear here. You as a CoDkid is calling me a scrub, an oldschool pc gamer with years of rocket jumping/surf experience across multiple games from quake/unreal to modern games like source and tf2?

>>3794816
I'm sincere. You have fun with your kid controller fps games.

>>3794818
I like how you consider being able to rocket jump like it's some master gaming achievement feat. lmao.

>>3794823
I got to go and play console games I guess. That'll show my real skill when I turn off the auto aim. That's what you suggest?

>>3794792
>I guess when people are trash talking these series they must be referring to the multiplayer aspect and how it's not like how it used to be when they were a child playing the games. It's to be expected on a board that lives on nostalgia

basically this for the most part. nobody has/had any real problems with the singleplayers of those games when they were called half-life or medal of honor

after COD4 took off most games tried to copy it the best way they can which ultimately lead to the death of arena shooters in a multiplayer capacity.

i can't say i'm looking forward to the trend of MOBA inspired shooters however

>>3794827
AFPS series killed itself. Q4 and UT3 were okay games but UT3 was completely dead on PC quickly and the PS3 community had the biggest community of any platform for the game. id killed QL LAN scene by locking it down and not giving us the options to run private server still a year or two ago and then locked the game behind a paywall. CoD didn't kill AFPS games. The developers of these games did by becoming stagnant. FPS games are still decent today if you're still playing single player campaigns and occasionally a good MP title comes out that is fun for a year or two before the new age PC gamers kill the game. See: R6 Siege.

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>>3794818
>pc gamer with years of rocket jumping/surf experience across multiple games from quake/unreal to modern games like source and tf2?

i think you're trying too hard kid.

also

>playing hat fortress 2

>>3794834
It wasn't always about hats. Game did go to shit after 09.
>>3794831
Siege will be dead in within the next 2 or 3 years. It plays like a mod and has little content.

Epic specifically left PC to make Gears of Wars games. Far easier to make and much more money than the Unreal games.

>>3794842
friendly reminder that the only way to play vanilla TF2 is on the 360 version of the orange box.

>>3794842
Siege has a ton of content. New operators are released through the year along with maps. If you're speaking about game modes then there is about 3 pvp game modes that are all okay and then you have your pve modes that go with that and have additional game modes. If you created a private lobby you can also play a variant of the game called tactical realism which is really fun with friends that communicate well together.

>>3794842
>Epic specifically left PC to make Gears of Wars games.
>actually believing this

gears 1 came out on PC and so did UT3 & bulletstorm (which epic had a hand in)

i can understand why you would think that however since gears 1 was the weakest multiplayerwise but probably the best campaign of the 3

>>3794865
I don't play the Gears games. I just see the correlation with the sub par quality with UT3
>>3794860
No mods.

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>>3794868
>I don't play the Gears games. I just see the correlation with the sub par quality with UT3

oh you're one of those people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwr8xsNNOFM

Superhot + Doom. Main features are superhot time (enemies only move when you move) and weapon throwing. Pretty cool stuff.

>>3794880
Meant to include the link to the last 30 seconds if you want to listen to the dude talk:
https://youtu.be/Pwr8xsNNOFM?t=203

>>3794879
Considering how bad UT3 was compared to 2k4 it makes sense. And then stopped making PC games altogether.

>>3794868
Yeah, no mods. Most games don't allow modding these days. With that game I don't mind it cause the vanilla game is really fun. But I quit that game recently because of the community. The community is just getting worse cause the game is rapidly growing.

>>3794884
i was talking more about the "I don't play the Gears games. I just see the correlation with the sub par quality" line since it sounds more like your talking out of your ass

also bulletstorm was their last PC game until the new UT

>>3794885
The quality of player is just poor these days, I played a bit of Siege with 2 friends. Our games 9/10 times came down to if the retard pub wanted to listen or just be retard and go lone wolf CoD vs the whole enemy team.

>>3794563
no FFVII for PSX but Frogger?

>>3794884
>Considering how bad UT3 was compared to 2k4 it makes sense.
Not retro, but what was so bad about it? There were certainly missteps (those giant robot things in a few of the DM matches, for starters) but it was still lots of fun. Seemed like the multiplayer was dead before six months had passed, though, which was a shame.

>>3794887

You're saying UT3 was good?
>bulletstorm
No idea. Wiki says some shitty looking multiplat.

I know about Paragon. I was in the alpha.

>>3794848
ah yes the port where nobody plays soldier

>>3794892
Think the biggest thing was lack of mod support. Something they're really pushing with the new Unreal. UT3 was just bland and that really kills an arena shooter. Especially when the game is coming off of 2k4.

>>3794893
didn't say anything about UT3 just that comparing a cover based/light tactical TPS to an arena style FPS is just flatout silly

>>3794898
I never compared them. The lack of quality that went into UT3 was because Epic had all their resources into making Gears of War. Not the first time a dev company has made this mistake. Idk why you're making a big deal like it's special.

>>3794904
it's more of how you worded it. as i said it sounded more like you're one of those people criticize a game they never played to try to earn some sort of perceived /v/-cred.

i know a closet weeaboo who's like that.

>>3794904
UT3 had the best movement of any UT so far.

>>3794940
You can debate that. The game overall was still poor.

>>3794943
Not much to debate about since it's a personal opinion. Most people are on the same terms with thinking UT3 was the weakest game in the series.

>>3794563
why does this only include american sales?

>>3795016
Only NA sales mater.

>>3794703
Because it ruined muh genre. In truth, Halo and CoD did not ruin the genre, these games didn't suddenly make it so developers could never produce a classic FPS game, these games just showcased that players preferred different mechanics. Of course, the fact that most people prefer different mechanics makes many doomfags mad, because they are unable to comprehend this and instead blame the literal games themselves like the retarded manchildren they are.

As a side note, the Halo CE campaign is quite boring

>>3795161
Replace "people" with casuals and you'd have an argument.

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>>3791215
Dodge-able projectiles being common instead of the more realitic"hitscan" insta hit weapons being the default. It changes how movement works signifigantly. However, this isn't automatically the case. The Titanfall series for example are current modern shooters that are just as fast older shooters and even have bunny hopping and rocket jumping equivalents via boost sliding and wall running.

>>3795921
What do you mean argument? There's nothing to argue, everything I said was 100% fact. Insulting the people who prefer X game instead of your Y game doesn't change that

>>3791215
The graphics combined with the style of gameplay provides us with higher fps. Games like doom and quake were not too heavy on the hardware as they were adapted to the main market as games of speed.

While cod is made more for realism over plain out speed and is more demanding on computers (meaning if you just buy a regular desktop pc today you probably will not be able to play cod on it).

Doom had to adapt in a market of PC's that were not powerful in the day and cod reigns on Consoles.

>>3796875
>There's nothing to argue, everything I said was 100% fact.
yes, i agree, casuals preferring different mechanics ruined the genre

>>3794834
>let me repeat that stale meme once more, that'll show them.

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>>3795018
>not sure if troll or just retarded American

>>3798446
>implying it's not true

>>3794703
Halo and COD introduced elements that made the game much easier for console players (regenerating health, almost complete linearity) while also reducing complexity in level design. Halo 1 has exactly 1 semi non-linear level, COD has none.

They have showcased that linear shooters with setpiece-by-setpiece-string level desing coupled with simplified gameplay are both more popular with the public that strives for cinematic experience, and make game easier to design at the same time.

>>3794735
People complain about CoD 1st being the same, and then about it being to diffeent, because every change devs made to it make it worse, so they want it to be at least as good as previous one.


>>3794801
IIRC Higher difficulties in CoD/Battlefield only makes enemies shoot more accurately, forcing you to stay in cover longer. In Halo it makes enemies more accurate and turns them into utter bulletsponges.

Both only make gameplay more tedious and not at all more engaging.

Also, Aim assist (which is usually "move stick in enemy's general direction, stop miving after it sticks") is cancer that effectively reduces aming skill required from player to zero.

>>3794879
Gears are sad linear cover based set-piece actions.


And yes, I played through all these games on high difficulty.

>>3798479
>here's our business plan: we're a video game corporation that will only take money from North Americans, because sales in the rest of the world don't matter lmao

Absolute genius.

>>3798623
NA sales greatly overshadow the rest of world.

>>3798626
>PS4 sales
>World: 57 million
>Europe: 17 million
>North America: 15.5 million

Facts greatly overshadow your bullshit.

>>3798634
I'm not seeing the facts. I see a 3rd world degenerate taking one fact and ignoring others.

>>3798637
>math
>not even once

>>3798643
Sad you're so underage that you think the PS4 represents console gaming.

>>3798626
Wrong. Chinese sales overshadow the rest of world.

>>3798659
Just talking out your ass, champ.

>>3798656
1. It was not me.

2. The debate (see original image) was about PlayStation sales lolol

>>3798656
3. ...and North America is also behind Europe for PS2 and PS3 sales.

>>3799120
>>3799125
We're on a retro board and the chart starts with PS1.