Redpill me on savestates.

>>3768814
They make some games playable.

They can be useful if you need to take a break and no savepoint is nearby or if a game has obnoxiously long passwords as saves but they remove all fun out of a game if you abuse them.

>>3768819
kek

>>3768821
So your idea of fun is redoing a monotonous part with artificial difficulty 100x?

>>3768814
Savestastes make the life system pointless which in turn make the secrets and collectibles pointless. Use them for practice runs or for spoiling a broken game you don't care about, I guess, but don't use them to cheese games.

>>3768814
If a game had them I use them.
If a game supported addon that allowed them I use them.
If a game doesnt have one I save when I have to abandon the game

They are everything that's wrong with emulation. No matter how authentic an experience you create there's always a press to win savestate button which can be used to cheapen the whole thing.

>>3768827
So the restore points on 3ds virtual console are fair game? Noted.

>>3768830
Im not really sure what 3ds supports or what virtual console is for that matter,but if you find it useful good on you.

>>3768825
>artificial difficulty

>>3768834
3ds games downloaded off virtual console allow you to make savestates. that's it.

>Go to a Casino minigame
>Abuse savestats to get the enough money for the best weapon
>Proceed to kill enemies in one hit because of overpowered weapon
>Quit playing because it's not fun anymore

I use them all the time in areas with artificial difficulty. I don't think of it as cheating, I think of it as a way to edit and touch up an imperfect game with programming flaws. It isn't the 80s anymore, use them all you want.

They're useful for practicing segments of a game, if you're a speedrunner. Like, with super metroid, I'll savestate before a particular set of rooms and just grind them out until I've got the movement perfect in my muscle memory.

I guess for casual play they can detract from the experience though.

Braid is my favorite game so whenever I play another game I use savestates.

I use save states to practice. When I played R-Type Delta back in the day I had to keep ploughing through sections of game I could already proficiently defeat before arriving at the single bottleneck in my game progression. I persevered because I had no other choice, but it was time consuming and I only didn't mind it because I was a young teenager and would rather be doing that than dealing with my shit life. These days when that happens, I'll save state and keep grinding the part until I can consistently do it, then I'll restart.

Literally nothing wrong with them. Games are meant to be enjoyed and that's the bottom line. If you enjoy running through a game without having to deal with replaying sections, use them. If you enjoy the challenge of mastering a game through trial and error without any handicaps, don't use them.

I couldn't beat Gradius 4 (arcade version) even with save states.

>>3768859
The problem with this approach is that you start seeing everything as "artificual difficulty" with "bad design" and not long afterwards you stop giving a fuck altogether.

>>3769114
An example is I recently replayed DKC2 to find all the secrets. There is lots of tedious, "trial and error, LOL" type gameplay in this game I wasn't interested in revisiting, and I used save states for these parts. I almost never use savestates, but in this case it made me enjoy the game much more.

>>3769117
>There is lots of tedious, "trial and error, LOL"
Such as?

>>3769120
Toxic Tower

Define redpill

>>3769117
I can tell you have a itty bitty tiny babydick.

>>3769185
Yeah, because I didn't waste my time on artificial difficulty segments and enjoyed the game.

>>3768814
>redpill
So you are 18 then I see. /vr/ is full of this generation of youth, lucky for us they know everything!

>>3768825
>artificially difficultly
I'm a bad gamer the post

Are we being invaded again?

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>>3768814
Why does the anime look so shitty compared to the VN art?

>>3768814
Convenient if:

>You're playing a long game and you have to go somewhere unexpectedly, functioning purely like sleep mode on a DS, where you just resume where you left off

>You use it to practice a difficult part for an actual playthrough

If you're save stating after every jump in a hard platformer, or after landing a free hit on a boss, you're not actually beating the game. You may as well watch a lets play or speed run at that part.

>>3769226
I'm gonna go with yes, considering OP is avatarfagging.

>redpill me on

fuck you

>>3768814
Use them if you want. I don't believe they cheapen the experience at all. A difficult section or a difficult boss will still be difficult with or without savestates.

Bionic Commando for GB had a few tricky jumps(?) where not getting them would just send you down to the floor and you'd have to spend two minutes climbing back up with no other penalties. In situations like that or just to hold your place, savestates are fine. You shouldn't be using them to cheese a game though.

Early games were intended to make the players die a lot to artificially prolong the game's replayability. Companies didn't want you beating their game until their next one came out. Save states turn what used to be month long journeys into a day long adventure.

I used savestates all the time when I was young. Beating a game through my own power seemed unthinkable, I wouldn't even dare to try.
Of course I started having a lot more fun when I stopped doing it.

>>3769281
>A few static frames VS thousands and more thousands of unique frames
Come on, the Steins;Gate anime was a great adaptation compared to some piles of garbage from the VN to Anime genre.

>>3768829
You don't have to use them, you know ?
It's just like selectable difficulties

>>3769281
>>3770838
Because if they attempted to emulate VN's style, we would've got Gankutsuou level of incomprehensible shit.

>>3768825
I hope this is bait, but yes that is what is expected of you. Pussy.

>emulator is non-deterministic
>savestates cause desyncs to happen

The worst nightmare of a TAS

>>3768830
I wouldn't call those fair game since they allow you to reset to any point you decide. If you suck at mario you can save every time you start a new level and go back when you run out of lives or die, and that's just cheating.

If you beat the game using save states beyond just using them to save on exit, you need to replay it without using them once (assuming you enjoyed the first cheating playthrough)

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>>3768814
here's one perspective. it applies to forgiveness built into games, not external tools like savestates, but the principle is the same.

>>3771931
what games do you tas, anon?

>>3768847
Which game? This sounds familiar.

I abused savestates in shantae's gambling minigame.

>>3768834
Don't know about virtual console? What rock have you been under for the past decade? People here will shit on it cause it's emulation you pay for.

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stop

>>3768814
You can't say you actually beat a game if you used them.

>>3772202
>mfw someone says they ""beat"" a game without using the original cartridge on an unmodded launch model of the console and an OEM controller within 2 years that the game was released and without an internet connection, any guides, and any tips from friends, or a single bathroom break

fucking kids

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>>3772251
>Not playing games at full volume to drown out the sound of your parents screaming at each other because mummy spent the food money on alcohol.

>>3771963
This article has a good point, but you do need to use the skills you've learnt in previous levels in Super Meat Boy. It is very forgiving in one sense, but you need some kind of consistency in order to beat the game, even if the consistency is in short bursts.

Also you could not possibly make such a hard game (and expect people to beat it, even hardcore platformer gamers) if you did not give the player infinite lives and immediate restarts. Adding a life system and game overs would make this game unbeatable.

It is really a different kind of game than i.e. hard NES games, a different kind of difficulty, and I don't see it as a bad thing, just something new and different.

>>3771978
jade empire had something like that but the game kills the guy who runs the gambling minigame in the most "rocks fall" way possible if you win too much

>>3768826
as far as methods of cheesing games go savestates are the least cheesy way to go to me.

also fuck the rewind feature that battletoads or duke 3D have now

>>3768814
it depends on how they're used.

Paladin: savestate ONLY on savepoints, password screens, or places where the original game allows you to save your progress.

Knight: same as above + adding a few extra checkpoints in games which don't have enough, practicing a difficult section with a long 'leadup' to it, and decisions that could screw you over (eg you can't fit a piece of armor from a treasure chest, is it worthwhile to drop your current armor? etc)

Ranger: using savestates to create frequent checkpoints, but not using them in the midst of a battle, platforming sequence, etc. still allowing some backtracking penalty, but not as much as there should be. using them to experiment on the game.

Thief: relying on savestates to take away any penalty for losing, and using them to 'break up' battles, platforming sequences, etc.

Orc: resorting to savescumming whenever you get stuck, ie brute-forcing your way through by savestating every few frames.

Kobold: savescumming/brute forcing through the game without even attempting to play fair.

Turd deposited by a Kobold: doing the above, then bragging about how you beat the game, deleting youtube comments that point out that you're a cheater, DUDE IM SO RETRO LMAO

>>3771963
>>3772320
It's one thing to dislike games that require earning attempts at the hard parts, that's just a matter of taste, but I do think anyone talking about game design should at least understand the point of that design and not be saying "For some reason" like in that quote at the beginning.

There's actually two different concepts getting stuck together here, though. One is testing mastery (or consistency, as that article puts it) of the game by making you complete the entire thing from the beginning with few or no mistakes in order to get some sort of "true completion" acknowledgment, and the other is how you go about practicing to reach that mastery.