Thoughts on the DBZ games for SNES?

>>3768303
Not as good as Budokai 3.

There are many DBZ games for SNES.

Super Saiya Densetsu is a pretty good remake of the first 2 Famicom RPGs.
Super Butoden was decent, it introduced the main Butoden mechanics but it's clunky, and doesn't actually have a story mode (despite "Butoden" meaning "battle story")
With Super Butoden 2 they nailed it, gameplay got much better and it actually included a story mode as well.
Super Butoden 3 was pretty much like SB2 in gameplay, but they didn't bother to include a story mode in this one. Overall, I prefer SB2 to this one.
Super Gokuu-den 1 and 2 are pretty weird interactive story/RPG games. I liked them, but they're not for everybody, the best thing about them is the alternate scenarios you could get, the fan translations are really bad though.

They all have consistently great music.

>>3768313
Please don't compare with non-/vr/ games.

How come the early DBZ games were so bad (compared to Street Fighter) yet so enjoyable?

>>3768331
I forgot to mention Hyper Dimension, the last DBZ game on SNES.
It's great, looks amazing, I personally don't like the gameplay as much as SB2, but it's a pretty competent fighter and great DBZ game.

>>3768334
Because they're not Street Fighter clones, the Butoden games (and Buyu Retsuden on Mega Drive) have their own style of gameplay, with flying and split-screen which makes the action more similar to the actual DBZ battles.
I really wouldn't call the Butoden games bad at all, I think they're quite good. The only one that's so-so is the first one.

>>3768331
What about Hyper Dimension? I've never played it, but it seemed better than any Butoden.

I agree for the great music. Ending music (with the staff roll) for Butoden 3 is legendary. Or even the fighting music in that early RPG. 10/10 will never forget.

>>3768338
Graphically, HD is superior to any Butoden (it does have an extra chip to enhance visuals).
Gameplay-wise, it's subjective, HD is more like a traditional fighting game.

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I really like the fact that Hyper DBZ has stages based on the 16 bit games.

Hyper Dimension is the only good one, and is pretty similar to Street Fighter. Also, looks incredible.

Everything else is clunky as fuck.

>>3768338
>Or even the fighting music in that early RPG. 10/10 will never forget.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiQD-_BeRCk
Fuck you, now I'll have this music stuck in my head along with the memories of the roms badly translated into spanish.
>SAIBAI ATACA!!!

>>3769074
>Everything else is clunky as fuck.

Not if you learn how to play Butoden 2 and 3.

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>>3769074
Am I the only one who finds the sprites grimy in Hyper Dimension? I prefer the cleaner look of Butoden.

>>3769081
Yep, this one.

>mfw I have the original Japanese cartridge and I don't understand what the heck is happening 80% of the time

>>3768303
>Super Butoden was decent, it introduced the main Butoden mechanics but it's clunky, and doesn't actually have a story mode (despite "Butoden" meaning "battle story")

Uh, yes it does, the most complete one in fact.

>>3768331
>Super Butoden 3 was pretty much like SB2 in gameplay, but they didn't bother to include a story mode in this one. Overall, I prefer SB2 to this one.

SB3 felt rushed, it also had weaker graphic effects than SB2. But to be fair it played waaaaay faster, which was good because SB2 was kind of a slog.

>>3769303
Super Butoden 2 has a turbo mode though.

You do well

I played the shit out of Butoden 2 and 3... on the arcades. I found out that those games were actually SNES games many years later.

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>>3769657
>on the arcades

>>3769761

im from the third world. Many people here used to take console games and made arcade versions of them with time limits. For example, i remember playing sonic 2 in the arcades, and for each coin you could play 10 mins till the timer of the machine runs out and sonic didnt move, and to keep playing you had to put another coin.

Since there was no consoles and no magazines or info, i unironically believed that those DBZ games were arcade games.

>>3769890
>For example, i remember playing sonic 2 in the arcades, and for each coin you could play 10 mins till the timer of the machine runs out and sonic didnt move, and to keep playing you had to put another coin.

That was a legit arcade release called Mega Tech.

There was also Mega Play, which was a slot changer like the Neogeo and had all 1-ups removed from every game they ported to it.

>>3768303
The fighting game?
The idea of separating the screen and flying was cool but repeating it for 3 games without innovating each time hurted a little.

The RPGs are pure fan service material for fans in a good way.

All the games in general aren't bad but also aren't groundbreaking, they're average at best.

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I have said this before: only DBZ fans like the Butouden games. That's because they are pretty bad games, even though the second has a decent presentation and all have awesome (if stolen) music.

>>3769228
Hyper Dimension have a pretty unique artstyle. It seems the colors were inspired by the manga, but they used heavy dithering on the sprites making them look more like statues.
I love it. I want more games with this style.

>>3769890
From where? Even Brazil, the world's cesspool, had (awful) magazines and consoles.

>>3769928
The split-screen was just a gimmick. It made no difference, as flying changed nothing gameplay wise.

In Hyper Dimension the flying gameplay was different. Sadly, flying sucked in that otherwise pretty good game.

>>3770014
Well, you are right in that I am a DBZ fan (although not a CRAZY fan, I just liked it a lot as a kid and still have a soft spot for it, and I read the manga from time to time, never gets old), but I think Super Butoden 2 is a genuinely good game. I don't think the spli screen is a gimmick, and it does change the way you play the game, especially since you can dash with L and R, battles are a lot different than on a traditional fighting game.

Why do you think they're bad games? Well, the first one isn't very good outside of presentation, but 2 and 3 are pretty good.
Bu Yu Retsuden on MD (a Butoden in all but name) is also decent, and Shin Butoden on Saturn is sadly disappointing, because of the small stages (which is why the split-screen is important and not a gimmick, stage size makes a difference).

the music in most DBZ games is good, not just SB2 (although yeah, SB2 is excellent).
The "stolen" thing is very exaggerated, only 1 track from Super butoden 2 is a "ripoff" (and not even, it's just the bassline that's similar to that one Pink Floyd song, and only at the beginning).
What music did tracks like gohan's theme or zangya's theme rip off from?

>>3768331
The RPG remakes of Densetsu sounds fun. I should try it some day.

>>3770014
I forgot about HD, that game sure rocked.

>>3768303

The Super Butouden games/Hyper Dimension were first DBZ games I ever played. This was around 2000/2001, so it was even before the first Budokai and Legacy of Goku. Ahh... the dark ages of shitty emulation.

I have insane nostalgia for these... gameplay-wise they're nothing special, but goddamn, yes, the music is so good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB_k1b6OEpA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZiSl4RFeZs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHXLc31fVCg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZVeiBhk4us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3aGWhuzI8M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo5gtx41GWE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N53YYDJpMY

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Not SNES, but best old DBZ game imo

>>3770028
>The "stolen" thing is very exaggerated
Ano, Yamamoto ripped the Beatles for the fucking title screen!
And it seems some of the music was stolen from classical composers.

>>3770387
It's a good game. Shame that the graphics suck.

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>>3771373
What song from the Beatles?
Not aware of what classical composers did he rip either, but ripping off classical music isn't that uncommon.
I still believe the only reason why people noticed the "rip off" is because Yamamoto himself admitted to have been ripping music iirc. People only started noticing then, and that's also when Toei removed all of his soundtrack for Kai, and video games.
Personally, I think most musicians rip off each other, there's a lot of similar sounding melodies and scales or chord progression or rhythms if you care enough to notice it. It's hard to do an original thing in this day and age.

Yamamoto was, first and foremost, a musical arranger, and a pretty damn good one at that. He's responsible for the arranges (not the composition) of Cha-La-Head-Chala.
He was also the main responsible sound director of the video games, and I think everyone can agree he did a brilliant job at it. I mean, we idolize Yuzo Koshiro and it's also been proven that almost the entire SOR soundtrack is actually a ripoff of some other techno or house track from the late 80s and early 90s. But people still like Yuzo because his main ability wasn't composing, but the way he made it sound, the technical aspect of it. The same can be said about Yamamoto. Also, I'm not sure but he might not be the only person contributing the compositions. He was the director, but I think at the time of the Butoden games releases, he had a group called Monolith, which various different musicians. They were also responsible for the music on the DBZ Hit Song Collection series (at least the ones between 1990 and 1994 or so).

>>3771385
>we idolize Yuzo Koshiro
Oh no, we don't. He's a hack and we had many threads about that.

Koshiro's a DJ, not a composer.

>>3771402
>He's a hack and I've posted this over and over again.

ftfy

>>3771402
>Koshiro's a DJ, not a composer.

But as a DJ he is terrible. Have you seen his DJ videos on youtube? The guy doesn't know how to mix, he just launches one track after another, and when he tries to mix them, he's awfully off tempo. It's cute in a way, and I'd still go to see him live if I ever had the chance, but no, he doesn't DJ for a living, he just did it a couple times at some videogame music-dedicated event, not a regular night club.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwO4SJGd1zE
I love how the crowd goes crazy when he plays Expander.

Also I'm pretty sure Yuzo is still based.
He's definitely not a DJ, and whether his compositions are criticized for being unoriginal or straight off copies of other music, his talent lies in his production, technical and arrangement aspect of it all, how it sounds, not the raw composition.

>>3770248
Shin Butōden/Ultimate Battle 22 had the best music of the Butoden series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ph8zeukVWI&list=PL8FE56BC01896BEEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4T9Rs1NZKo&index=3&list=PL8FE56BC01896BEEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYYuo91cazI&index=4&list=PL8FE56BC01896BEEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnclHS4nS7w&index=5&list=PL8FE56BC01896BEEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSVm8n6JGF4&index=7&list=PL8FE56BC01896BEEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqyCbr85r68&list=PL8FE56BC01896BEEA&index=8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-I3eLjYb0s&index=9&list=PL8FE56BC01896BEEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiXmAdNkTKg&list=PL8FE56BC01896BEEA&index=10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW1AKWiRC5A&index=11&list=PL8FE56BC01896BEEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_sqmr3W05Q&list=PL8FE56BC01896BEEA&index=13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYlMnAJBmAU&list=PL8FE56BC01896BEEA&index=14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UdVl7qju3k&index=15&list=PL8FE56BC01896BEEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uji8xEH51lw&index=16&list=PL8FE56BC01896BEEA

>>3771402
Only with Streets of Rage, all his other work was completly original

>>3771402
>Oh no, we don't. He's a hack and we had many threads about that.

He only ripped off tracks for Streets of Rage 2, and those songs are *supposed* to be typical early 90s club music ripoffs/remixes. The tracks may be reused, but they are used at the correct time and place.

He also used Ode to Joy in Columns 97 the same way - the game has classical music, and Ode to Joy is perhaps the best known classical piece in the world.

This is completely different from how a Dragon Ball game starts playing Pink Floyd when you fight Cell.

>>3771463
>This is completely different from how a Dragon Ball game starts playing Pink Floyd when you fight Cell.

So you say that completely ripping off a techno track is fine because "it fits" SoR, but using a similar (because it's not even note by note same) bassline as the intro of the Cell theme isn't? Also, why wouldn't Pink Floyd fit a battle with Cell?
Anyway I'm >>3771407. I like Yuzo, but same as Yamamoto, he "borrowed" various melodies and beats from other artists, but arranged them his own way.

>>3771385
Eleanor Rigby.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5fE30TL-oA

>>3771463
Well, if anything stealing an entire music like Koshiro did with Shamen's Move Any Mountain may be WORSE than what Yamamoto did for the Cell theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpjnzxtZ6Qg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbEvLNjeqKc

>>3772073
>Eleanot Rigby

Haha, true, very similar, but it's only some notes for a few secs, it's not like he straight out copied the whole song.

>>3771473
>So you say that completely ripping off a techno track is fine because "it fits" SoR,

Yes, because reusing tunes and making remixes like that is common in the club scene. Even Pink Floyd got a lot of remixes like that, best example I know of is the Scissor Sisters version of Comfortably Numb.

>>3772152
It's not the same though, Yuzo didn't sample, or intend to remix those tracks. He just used hooks and melodies he liked from songs he listened to at the club, but he himself isn't a club music producer or a DJ, he's a computer sound technician.

>>3771385

Agreed 100%. Even after it was essentially proven that he was ripping off these tracks, it didn't take away from my enjoyment of his work on the Super Butouden/Budokai series at all. The Budokai games really suffered without his tracks in the HD Collection.

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Would give my left nut for this.

>>3770248
I love the music for all three Butoden games and Hyper Dimension, especially 2 and Hyper Dimension. But Super Gokuden 2 really had a stand out soundtrack.

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>>3773186
Yeah, both Super Goku-den games have a great soundtrack, I also like 2's especially.
Have you heard the arranged CD for it?

I don't care about the "ripoffs", because everyone is influenced by something and with the amount of music going on is normal to things seem similar or have some kind of basis. Yamamoto was a lost for the DBZ franchise with all those arrangements which he was very good at. And for a couple of years the musics in DB games were pretty bad because of him leaving

>games
Hyper Dimension was the best one, gameplay was the better of the bunch and I love that style. But the first Gokuden was very good, the 2nd hads tons of what-ifs.
The Butouden series I never enjoyed that much, though the 2nd was fine. My main problem is with those "floaty" physics, it annoys me. The genesis version was even worse with that.

>>3773139
>Blue Cell
This shit reminds me of those cheap toys I bought back then when Z was a huge hit.

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>>3773278
>This shit reminds me of those cheap toys I bought back then when Z was a huge hit.

That one is a legit Super Butoden 2 set released by ban dai though, but yeah, Cell's coloring is weird, but it's not completely wrong as it's one of the alternate colors of Cell on Super Butoden 2.
Same with the red-tunic Goku and the black outfit Vegeta.

>>3773290

Yeah, but still reminds of those toys. Weird colors in some toys, looking kinda of cheap, weird-ass faces and eyes placement.
Just after 96 I do remember seeing in stores a better quality figurines that were much expensive, but damn, sure was worth getting those.

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>>3773301
Yeah, I admit they look a bit weird, also probably very small, but it's official SB2 merch so I'd love to own it (this set is like over $100 in japanese auctions sites).

>Just after 96 I do remember seeing in stores a better quality figurines that were much expensive

Which ones? The ones I had as a kid were the classic Super Battle collection, which were pretty nice.

>>3773309
>set and board
That's actually nice. 100? Well, old stuff can be expensive these days, we don't have a choice

>Super Battle
Didn't know what was that, but googling I realized I have a bunch of those, somewhere, but they shoulkd be the faker ones.
The quality one I was talking about It was a much solid figure, heavier, around 16 cms or so and just move the arms up and down. It was probably some collection about the Buu Saga, because I wanted the SSJ3 Goku there, but my mother bought me later a Gohan because she mixed the names. I didn't cared, because that adult SSJ Gohan with blue gi looked cool.

>>3772170
Yuzo Koshiro put the tracks into the game that he remembered from his last nights disco binge, as he remembered them.

Kenji Yamamoto straight up copied the score of Avatar, a metal album, and Pink Floyd.

>>3773278
>>3773290
it's not actually Cell, it's one of the Cell Juniors all grown up.

>>3773458
>Kenji Yamamoto straight up copied the score of Avatar, a metal album, and Pink Floyd.

Could you point out how they're "straight up copied"? Pretty damn sure the Cell Theme from Super Butoden 2 isn't exactly like the Pink Floyd song, only the bass at the beginning sounds similar.
Also, it could be argued "Yamamoto just put the tracks into the game that he remembered from last nights movie watching/music listening".

It's the same situation in both cases, Yamamoto and Koshiro used melodies they liked and gave it their own sound.

>>3773460
I think he's talking about the proper Cell figure, which doesn't have the classic Cell tone of green but rather a more aquamarine tone, similar to the second sprite here: >>3773290

I got to play BT2 and 3 as a kid, and I loved them because it was fucking DBZ, in Super Nintendo, that was like the coolest thing, 2 was also my first ever DBZ game.

To be honest though, 2 was pretty clunky, never really liked how slow the regular movement speed was, and although the Cell saga was airing at the moment, I had no idea who Bojack or Zangya were and didn't care much for their design, so they felt like shitty OC fillers to me, and wished Freezer or one of the androids could be playable instead.

3's gameplay is a lot more polished, but damn it, the lack of a story mode really hurts the game, battling infinite CPU opponents gets boring after a while and when friends came over we usually had better games to play on the N64.

Also, a problem with both games is that strategy is basically nonexistant and you can win most of the time by just running away and spamming ki blasts, which makes melee pointless. At least that's how it was when playing against the computer and my very casual friends.

I must say both of them do hold up better than Final Bout at least, which totally woed me when I first played it but it's pretty hard to stomach these days.

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>>3773515
> never really liked how slow the regular movement speed was

This is a legit complaint, although there IS a turbo mode you can unlock (need to press L and R on the 2nd controller during the intro).

>Also, a problem with both games is that strategy is basically nonexistant and you can win most of the time by just running away and spamming ki blasts, which makes melee pointless. At least that's how it was when playing against the computer and my very casual friends.
You can play this way, but against the CPU doing this on "super" difficulty will give you trouble, as the CPU is very hard to beat on the buttonmash part when powers collide.
Melee combat is, actually, the most efficient way to play, meteo attacks are the most powerful attacks in the game, more than the special ki attacks.

>I had no idea who Bojack or Zangya were and didn't care much for their design, so they felt like shitty OC fillers to me, and wished Freezer or one of the androids could be playable instead.
Yeah, SB2 was released during the time Cell Game part was airing on TV, so they didn't have much else to add after that (they already did Piccolo Jr., freeza and androids saga on Super Butoden 1), so they had to add filler. The Boujack and Zangya plot on SB2 is actually different from the one in the movie (where the Z warriors travel to some other planet to fight them), in SB2, the plot is actually more elaborated, with Zangya controlling clones of the Z warriors, and then they start building towers that consume humanity's energy (this part of the plot isn't always triggered though, it depends on how you play and what options you take on the story mode).
Then there's also Broly, which only appears if you meet certain conditions (I think play in difficulty 3 or higher and don't lose battles).

>>3773309
Never really had too many action figures, but my all-time favorite was an IF Labs Battle Damaged S.S. Goku that a buddy of mine gave me for my birthday one year.

It was unfortunate that my older brother decided to pull a Toy Story and wanted to see if "it could really fly", and broke his arm.

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>>3773606
I still have an old SSJ Goku from the super battle collection series, I lost the upper shirt part though, but he looks awesome anyway.

>>3768331
>Super Butoden was decent, it introduced the main Butoden mechanics but it's clunky, and doesn't actually have a story mode (despite "Butoden" meaning "battle story")
I'm pretty sure game has some pre-battle dialogue? Are you sure you didn't play the French localization or something?

>>3773470
>Pretty damn sure the Cell Theme from Super Butoden 2 isn't exactly like the Pink Floyd song, only the bass at the beginning sounds similar.

The defining part of the entire song is the bass line...

>>3773645
On Cell Theme is just the intro though.
And even then, both bass lines are not exactly 1:1, just very similar.

>>3773538
Man, I forgot about Broly.
At the time I didn't know who he was either, but unlike the other two, I thought his design was cool, and was very excited when I unlocked his fight.

I was very disappointed when I saw his movie later, I thought it was fairly boring compared to the other DBZ movies.

>>3773538
>You can play this way, but against the CPU doing this on "super" difficulty will give you trouble, as the CPU is very hard to beat on the buttonmash part when powers collide.

You can just block their combo spam, input your meteo command directions during blockstun, timed so you do the attack the split second you come out of stun.

I don't remember how often you can do it against most normal enemies, but against Broly you can do it 100% the time when he uses his five kick special move.

Since the meteo does as much damage as a super ki blast, you can win faster.

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>>3773648
I liked Boujack and Zangya I guess. Boujack looked like a wicked monster and sort of reminded me of Blanka from Street Fighter, and Zangya was just cute.
And yeah, Broly is a good character but his movies are not that great.

>>3773656
>You can just block their combo spam, input your meteo command directions during blockstun, timed so you do the attack the split second you come out of stun.
Pretty cool, didn't know this. I'll have to try it.

>>3770387
I played the shit out of this and the first one. Really enjoyable games.

>>3769890
Stop saying unironically. It's genuinely or sincerely or no word at all. Unless you personally are so relentlessly sarcastic that you need to flag your own honesty.

What happened to Yamamoto? Did he sommit sudoku?

>>3773458
>Yuzo Koshiro put the tracks into the game that he remembered from his last nights disco binge, as he remembered them.
No, he straight up copied the melodies
>>3772073

>>3768642
Aren't those just locations from the manga?

>>3773647
it's not just the bassline but the orchestra hit too, though I think that's only there in the arranged version.

>>3775304
>No, he straight up copied the melodies
So did Yamamoto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go5FxZdyO80
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCoiG7unOvY

>>3768331
They just redid the translation for gokuden and the original translation was done by ginyu and English is not his first language so it was not the best translation of course