Thief thread

>>3762258
>there are people that dislike bonehoard and return to the cathedral
do you niggers not know how to take notes on your map and use a compass?

A MISGUIDED SOUL

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JOIN US NOW JOIN US NOW JOIN US

>>3762258
Lurking 4chan, tried /g/ and got told to get out after I kept arguing The Dark Project couldn't be played on Linux. Went to /v/, nothing felt relevant there. Come here, see this thread. /vr/ is the best board.

>>3762423
people dont like bonehoard because.. gulp!
spoopy

What is everyones favorite Fan Mission?

Anybody finish the Godbreaker campaign yet? I need a hint on how to deal with Dennison and Merek once and for all.

>>3765558
I had not heard of this new campaign and it looks fantastic. Thanks for letting me know.

Can someone post recommended fan missions? Might break out Thief with nothing on my backlog except Gta 5

>>3763373
>The Dark Project couldn't be played on Linux.
What?
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=4205

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>>3765606
Here's the image I have, I think it's the most up-to-date.

>>3765558
>>3765597

>874 mb
lmao

>>3766449
>you're master a shit

>>3765943
whats the issue

>>3762423
Return To The Cathedral feels like wasted potential. The fetch quest with Brother Marus is nothing more than padding. I also don't know what the devs were thinking when they decided that Expert requires you to KILL all the haunts.

>>3764674
Heist Society and Hidden Agenda are pretty cool.

>>3767053
>KILL all the haunts
hell no. i only killed out of necessity in that level. flash bombs for days.

>>3765897
is there a difference between playing this with thief 1 or 2?

>>3767193
Well, Thief 1 and 2 are different games, so yes. Some missions are made for Thief 1 and some for Thief 2.

>>3767208
how do you know which one is for which? does it tell on the site you d/l them from?

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>>3766449
Theif 2 comdey writing
>You're lucky the dockside whore-keeps aren't bashing down her doors for stealing their clientele
>Why just last night, I saw her out back, warming up the stableboy!

Theif 4 writing
>Cockrings

How far we've fallen

>>3767228
the ones with the thief logo are for thief
the ones with the thief 2 logo are for thief 2
just google the map name + thief

>>3767228
They'll come with a readme that says what game they're for. NewDark will automatically detect the game BUT it detects all NewDark T1 missions as T2 so you'll have to manually change it otherwise it'll try to install the mission to T2 and everything will be broken.

>>3767289
>NewDark will automatically detect the game
*Darkloader

>>3767289
>>3767254
Ok cheers mate. They should've made it easier to play Thief 1 levels on Thief 2

>>3766449
>waifuthreads.exe

>>3767240
thief*
but yes

>>3767289
NewDarkLoader and FMSel automatically identify those as T1 FMs though.

>>3767240
Who was in the wrong here?
Also TDS doesn't seem half bad for now. It just isn't the same, but it has his unique aspects. If it wasn't for Thief 2 Gold the saga would feel perfect, complete.

>>3767187
Its an actual objective on Expert, dude.

>>3767537
They were both right.

Just finished Deadly Shadows. I think I got most of it, but one question...
What does the key symbol on Garrett's hand mean? He's the One True Keeper and all, but is the symbol a glyph or something? What does being the OTK entail after the Last Glyph activated?

>>3767537
My main issue with deadly shadows is the awkward movement controls. It really feels like it was designed with a 3rd person view in mind.

>>3768492
I'm not a fan of changing a game's way to be played, but luckily the sneaky upgrade changes this by default, or it lets you tweak it, and it's way better.

>>3768123
At least there's enough arrows to sort things out. What a comfy level

How is one supposed to ghost the overlook mansion part with the timed secret passage? Noise arrows everywhere and then run?

>>3770056
>ghost
>noisemakers
doesn't sound like you're familiar with the Official Ghost Rules™

>>3770068
I am, but I keep them for a second playthrough. I'm happy with not being seen and not touching anyone for the moment. So, how do I do that unseen? Forty seconds are nothing with three of them walking back and forth.

This is the best place to ask, is Dishonored 2 worth a play?

>>3768454

Its a bit meta.

I remember reading that now that Garrett is the one true Keeper, he and the Universe he lives escapes the clutches of determinism from Keepers prophecies ( the game devs creating and destabilizing the world ).

>>3770215
Not in PC

>>3770056
Well, it was quite easy after all.
Did you steal the widow's inheritance, taffers?

>>3770215
>>3770227
If you have a GTX 10 series card, you should be fine.

>>3767240
Thief 4 writing was overall atrocious. Its particularly baffling that the story makes it out like we're supposed to care about Erin, despite her being an insufferable childish cunt during the entirety of the prologue.

>>3770215
Dishonored 2 is at its greatest when doing a no powers run. The game actually becomes a challenge, since you can't dickwave through the levels anymore.

>>3772221
I wish shadows would have a major role in the series, at least in the first game. Of course you can do everything without blinking, but the game is designed around hiding away from guards, not under their noses iirc

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108638

has anyone had the pleasure of playing this fan mission?

>>3773758
Yeah, it is a shame that Dishonored 1&2 are just Line-of-Sight based.

Alongside shadows, I also wish it incorporated sound a bit more, like in Thief. Always thought it was cool that certain surfaces were louder to walk on than others.

>>3771982
The tutorial is also pretty insulting, considering it tells you to pickpocket her weapon, and then afterwards we get a cutscene basically showing that doing this only made matters worse.

>>3774401
True, it's almost impossible tracing guards by hearing their steps. At least the noise Corvo makes matters, if you don't upgrade the boots.
A way to balance all this would be raising the stakes with a threat comparable with Corvo's powers. For example, the witches in the dlc who could teleport while patrolling were a nice addition.
Between undeads and Karras' children, Thief always had situations you had to outsmart to avoid.

>>3767053
>>3767053
It didnt feel like padding to me when I first played it. It was challenging and nerve-wracking having to consecutively search each area for special items to include in a ritual to deliver the unsent soul to the beyond. Imagine playing it for the first time and being utterly spooked by the level shutting you in, and the friendly ghost keeps sending you on this suicide quests.

thief 2 > 3 > 1

>>3777497
i disagree with your opinion

>>3777497
thief 1 > 2 > tdm > 3 > 4

>>3777534
This is objectively correct.

>>3777534
Does TDM have some good stuff? I was thinking about trying it before starting with the fms, now that I'm done with the wall flattening simulator.

>>3777757
TDM has a few really good missions. Anything by Melan for a start is pretty much a must-play. You should play through the tutorial even if you're intimately familiar with Thief 1 and 2, a lot of stuff is different.

>>3777497
Get a load of this filthy, smelly Pagan wannabe.

>>3777534
This.

>>3777534
What is this 4 you speak of?

>>3777534
>4
Common misconception, but there was no fourth game. There was just some shitty broken game that happened to have a similar title, about some unlikeable mascara-wearing edgelord cunt who happened to be named Garrett. They were clearly completely different characters though. Different characters, different setting, different developers.

I can see how you might get confused though.

>>3762258
Can it be SS2 thread too? Anyone played this fanmade mod to it http://www.moddb.com/mods/system-shock-infinite ?

>>3777534
There was a 4th game?

The Sword sure is a fun map.

>>3777534
>4
No such thing
>>>/x/

>play Thief a shitton until I start to get bored
>decide to take a break for a while
>still want to play Thief
Help. Why can't anything else be as good as Thief?

>>3780471
>start to get bored
Does not compute

>>3780471
The direction of the industry changed, level design is kind of a lost art. In a sense it's reassuring, I know I'm not gonna need to search further for something like Thief. When I don't want to play it intensively I just switch to it when other games makes me feel the need for thieving.

This sounds weird but sometimes when playing missions I'd get so into the game I felt like I needed to stop and take a break. Not because is scary stuff but because the engrossing aspect made it feel almost too real. Anyone know what I mean?

What happened to Garrett after the third game? Did he die? Retire? What happened?

Some weird spin-off game I played says he started wearing mascara and became an edgy douche but that doesn't make any sense and I'm pretty sure it's non-canon fan garbage.

>>3781468
More or less, for me it's about freedom. Having only a few gameplay boundaries makes it hard to think in levels, I easily lose track of time, so I try to find a good rhythm.
>>3781481
He's a Keeper. His perpetually annoyed personality turned into the will to protect the City from other bullshit.

>>3762258
I was told Theif II was better than theif 1, was my buddy correct?

>>3782037
Depends on what experience you're looking for.

Thief 1/Gold is a D&D/RPG rogue simulator set in a low-fantasy medieval steampunk world, featuring the usual mansion break-ins but also grave robbing, cave exploration and more unconventional jobs. You're only given a few bits of information on what you have to do and the places you're going to break into. The game has a fine balance between human-populated areas and stranger, more surreal locales with spooky critters. It has a really thick, mysterious and sinister aura of anguish and is a pretty dark game visually, with a killer art direction that still holds up today despite the dated graphics.

Thief 2 is a victorian/steampunk burglar simulator that is almost exclusively about human-populated building break-ins, having next to none of the surreal elements of the previous games. The game is a lot more about being a regular thief rather than the stereotypical rogue who undertakes many different types of thieving jobs. It has a few more items and options than the previous game, features far more detailed player maps and the levels are usually a bit smaller but more tightly focused. The art direction shifted from dark and gritty low-fantasy medieval steampunk to a cleaner dark steampunk victorian/haussmann aesthetic. Thief 2 is also more polished and refined than Thief 1/Gold overall, with higher level of detail.

Personally I think Thief 1/Gold is the better game by a significant margin, but Thief 2 is the better product. You should play both anyway.

>>3782150
I plan too, but I got Thief II first because I was told it was "easier" than the first and a better choice. I do like the sound of /x/ level shit. How spooky does Thief ger?

>>3782336
Thief 1 is pretty damn spooky at times, and manages to be more effective at horror than a few horror games, most notably thanks to the incredible sound design. The most impressive thing about it is that you're almost always somewhere you don't belong.

Thief 2 is a lot less spooky in comparison, even if it has its moments.

>>3782408
Well I discovered to my dismay that Thief is punishing as all hell. Fuck this is hard to adjust to after years of arena shooters and rts/assfaggots

>>3782150
>the levels are usually a bit smaller but more tightly focused.
>smaller

Not sure I agree here. Thief 2 had bigger maps than 1, I found.

>>3782472
A few of the missions are bigger (the bank and Life of the Party come to mind), but a few are slightly smaller, like Eavesdropping and Ambush/Trace the Courier. They have slightly more complex layouts though, which is perhaps why they appear bigger than they are.

>>3782464
Take it slow, look around carefully and mind your steps. The sound propagation technology is so good you can accurately pinpoint the location of someone without even needing to look.

>>3782336
It's worth it to play TG first to see how the story continues in T2.

>>3782482
Your talking to a guy that started on tf2 and wound back the clock to Quake from there. Slow and steady is gonna take a while.

I also blame Skyrim for giving me unrealistic stealth expectations. Everything after Morrowind was a mistake

>>3782513
*You're
Damn this language

>>3782150

I personally think that they're both great games, and have a different flavour to them.

2 is slightly more comfy, it has - like you said - a more victorian aesthetic, it's less stressful because it lacks zombie levels and whatnot. It's overall a bit more gothic I guess, where Thief 1 is a gritty horror DnD campaign.

>>3782513
Did you misquote?

>>3782517
Don't get me wrong, I think Thief 2 is a downright fantastic game and well above a vast majority of other games, but Thief 1 it isn't.

>>3782523
Yes I did, how I did it; the world may never know
>>3782485

>>3782517
For some reason I find both of them comfy in different ways. Being unseen in places where you shouldn't be, when everyone, ghosts included, is minding their own business, it's a rather good feeling.

>>3782513
Stay in the shadows and you'll do wonders.

How does Thief's stealth system compare to Splinter Cell 1?

>>3782575
Splinter Cell's system is a direct imitation of Thief's. They're pretty much identical.

>>3782582
That's disappointing, I was expecting Thief to be better.

>>3782618
What could you use as the fundamentals of the stealth genre if not sound and vision? Thief's strenght is in its levels and the player's freedom.

>>3782618
While the stealth mechanics are very similar the level design in Thief 1 and 2 is far superior than Splinter Cell's. Levels are far bigger, far more interconnected and offer a lot more options.

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>>3782517
>it's less stressful

*loud metallic stomps* HEARD... SOMETHING... I DO NOT KNOW...

>>3782650
That voice made those things cute. The fact that Karras is normal looking after all was a bigger surprise that the one I expected

>not even five minute in here
>there is a thief thread

so, am I tripping or is this a reality ?

>>3782408
>be me
>thief 2
>stealthing in the cathedral for the first time
>is in the basement
>see what appears to be a guard with his back turned on me
>Dat_opportunity.mp4
>Raise blackjack
>CRITICAL HIT
>He merely bulges, turns back
>oh my god it's a skeletton
>nopes the fuck out of here.

I eventually killed that thing with arrows, but I won't lie, that was the first and last time a skeletton actually terrified me.

also garreth loosing his eye was the single most terrifying thing happening to him. no fucking wonder everything else barely fazes him in the third.

>>3782795
Didn't you hear the creepy whispering ?
Because that should have made you suspicious already.

>>3782808
I was busy cackling to myself at the idea of blackjacking that idiot standing without moving.

I was only ten years old :v and hadn't played the first one beforehand. I had litteraly no knowledge of the whole ... otherworldy things faring about in the city.

>>3782795
What was the deal with them there anyway? Are they supposed to be the dead guards from Thief 1

>>3782838
They're haunts, restless spirits of dead hammerites. They're in in those catacombs because the church used to be an hammerite one. The same goes for the one in Blackmail, but I can't explain the ghost haunt in the prison.

Cathedral or Cradle?

>>3782859
Cathedral by far.

>>3782981
This.

>>3782851
didn't the sheriff station use to be a hammerite one?

>>3782795
aren't the haunts super resistant towards arrows?

>>3783091
Haunts require a normal-medium amount. Apparitions, on the other hands, can take 32 arrows before dying again.
>>3783086
I don't remember any hint to this, but maybe that ghost is one.

So what is the consensus on Thief 2X?

>>3782635
>>3782636
I feel disappointed because in Splinter Cell 1 enemies would be completely oblivious to you if you stayed in the dark. And it doesn't take much to have better level design than it, given how ridiculously linear it is.

>>3784047
Splinter Cell's linearity is what makes such series hard for me to get into. To me, Stealth Games are at their best when the layout allows the player enough freedom to experiment and get clever. Splinter Cell too often has only one way of doing things.

So when it comes to third person stealth games, I've always far preferred the Hitman series.

>>3784047
It's all about how you play the shadow element imo. Without it the game would be based solely around corners or staying on a different height than the enemies, like Dishonored. Well placed shadows open you more than a path to explore a level, and with different densities it's not always a guaranteed hiding spot.

>>3783370
I'd like to know too. I can't find a way to make it play those cutscenes and every action that interrupts the game, like pausing or reading something, takes a few moments to load.

>>3783370
It's great. Story and voice acting are ehhh and the game is a tad on the easy side, but it is still an incredible achievement, is consistently good and features some incredibly good missions (The Grand Hotel and The Cure in particular).

>>3784848
Looks like you're playing on the old engine. There's a way to get T2X to run with NewDark. Look at the bottom of this post: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134733

>>3784871
Thanks, I'll give it a try

>>3784871
>>3784978
Now it runs fine, the cutscene problem is still here. I tried the solutions of the FAQ thread but nothing. No big deal, at least they're in the folder.

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http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=858048394

Please vote

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So in case you want inside stuff on The Black Parade, this is what mission 7 currently looks like in top view.

>>3784437
I never played any of the Hitman games.

>>3784614
>different densities
From what I recall the first SC tended to have a shitton of hard shadows that are impossible IRL and also plenty of "not completely dark areas" that still behave as such. I really hope Thief 1/2 and the fangames don't suffer from that.

>>3786636
I'd say it's safe from that. There are roughly three levels, from visible to hidden, and what's between each one of them. Only the latter makes you invisible (if enemies aren't searching for you) while exposure, in other levels, depends on stuff like movement and distance. Adapting to those two elements is the main focus of the game, since the darkest zones are bound to specific areas, like corners or objects with a big shadow.
It does its work, but if the whole shadow thing isn't up your alley there are only bad news here.

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why is this allowed

>>3787326
what is the problem?

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>tfw found an old 22" lcd with 1600x1200 res from 2002
>now I can play it just like I played it years ago

feels good man.jpg

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>>3787368
>2002

>>3782859
Cradle by far.

You can't reliably kill all enemies, especially on Expert difficulty, and there's forced stealth objectives as opposed to forced combat objectives in Cathedral.

That, and the atmosphere, sound and overall design is much spookier in Cradle than Cathedral, although the twist is way greater there. The Patients are also eerie, loud, and affect the lighting that sneaking is kinda difficult to pull off. It holds up way scarier gameplay wise.


If you know what you're doing in Cathedral, you'll toss a few flash bombs and kill most of the enemies in the main room after picking up the eye, and if you stick to backstabs killing all the haunts is no problem either. Not that scary once you know what you're doing.

>>3783370
>>3784848

T2x, as opposed to the most of the garbage-tier missions recommended regularly in this thread, keeps a consistent quality in levels.

They all have that golden ratio of Thief level design, with some unique environments, most notably the train level. It's actually a great fanmade blend of both the fantastical thief 1 and technocratic realism thief 2 elements.

Seriously, compared to T2x almost all the fanmissions are garbage, overambitious techdemos with blurry focus on what the mission actually wants to do. Unreservedly recommended.

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>>3787326
>>3787347

>>3787538
Oh you're right... it does look weird

>>3787538
I will never understand why people install HD texture packs. Not just for Thief, but older games in general. I can't think of a single game where an HD texture pack actually looks good.

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>>3787538

>>3787687
This is horrible on so many levels. Almost none of the textures match, the palette and look are fucked, most of these textures look awful and there is zero effort made to fix texture alignment issues made more visible with higher-res textures.

How can anyone play the game with this and think it looks better than the original is completely beyond me.

>>3787687
>modder's girlfriend as a painting
always gets me

>>3787730
And another thing, this is even more disheartening when people play FMs with these, or custom maps for other games that happen to have these HD packs. You spend hours selecting textures that look good together and fit the original artstyle so they don't clash, you spend hours aligning them so there's no stray misaligned face, you spend hours lighting your scenes so that these textures are used to their maximum efficiency, and then someone somewhere decides that's not good enough for them and that your efforts are lacking, so they apply this HD shit on top of your work, reducing all your hard work to ashes since most of the textures in the Thief Gold HD pack do not match the originals at all, sometimes being completely different textures altogether with completely wrong scale or orientation.

Yes, this makes me FUCKING MAD.

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>>3787730
>>3787746
>How can anyone play the game with this and think it looks better than the original is completely beyond me.
Bigger is better :^)
Get back to work skacky.

>>3787687
>Somebody spent a shitton of time doing this.
>It looks like shit.

Autism.

>>3787797
I-I hope you don't have to stealth through that.
I'd love it.

>>3787687
I unironically think the pics on the right side look better.

>>3787830
You need to get your eyes checked.

>>3787797
How hard is it to learn DromEd? Any good tutorials?

>>3787921
I used nicked's tutorial to get started.
https://nickdablin.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/absolute-beginners-guide-to-creating-a-thief-2-mission-part-one/

It's pretty good, it covers a lot of the basics.

>>3787503
Just started and I can already see that. Regardless of the story itself, maybe the fact that those missions are created to be part of a single, complete experience helps with the coherence. I'm curious to see where this goes.

>>3787497
I really like the involvement of Garrett in the Cradle. While the tasks Brother Murus gives you will just help to get you out of there, in the Cradle it feels like you have to dig deep in the mistery. I can't say which mission is more dificult, but the whole "being forced to go in places you know they'll be spooky" thing is far more effective in the asylum.
The moment where Garrett grabs the Eye, though, is a huge bonus in the Cathedral's favor.

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>>3787746

>>3788097
now this is burrick racing

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>>3788629
I dunno what you mean by that.

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Well this is retarded. because i released some prisoners the guards won't fuck off. Now i'm in a stump. I do have speed potion but I seem to be out of much options.

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>>3788661
this is so fucking retarded im hidden in the shadows and he does a 180 out of nowhere and makes a mad dash to me.

>>3788712
You probably made a noise. Also, releasing a shit ton of prisoners is obviously going to alert guards.

Thief has very consistent AI behavior and stealth rules. But it might take a few maps to get a handle on all of it.

>>3788721
so because the alarms are off their sound senses heightens? that actually makes some sense.

>>3788725
Any time they're alerted their senses heighten. So if someone sees you and runs off and tells a guard he'll be alerted.

God damn, just talking about it reminds me how much I love Thiefs AI... The only other game at the time that did cool shit like that and remained consistent about it was MGS, and it was a bit more arcadey stealth.

Still a good game though.

can someone tell me how the fuck im supposed to do this? if i knock out any of the guards the mission is over. i cant carry the box guy over to the barracks because he's too slow.

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>>3788746

>>3788746
Play on an easier difficulty if you're having trouble.

Ideally what you would do (iirc) is only let the guy you need out first. Then release everyone else after you've done everything else.

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i just found this secret passage and feel all sly getting away.

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>>3788756
oh my god i made it back in one piece!

>>3788712
Sometimes guards are still alerted even if it doesn't look like it. Wait for them to cool down by hiding to be sure that it's safe again to go.
Like the other anon said, fighting against the prisoners alerted them. Remember that in general leaving no trace is the best way to sneak around safely.

A haiku for Thief:
The guards are coming.
They know of the blood I spilt.
Only one shall live.

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took a while but i did it.

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>>3788803

>>3788832
You're in for a while ride mate. Cragscleft is a good example of what's to come. A sort of initiation

Anyone here who played Tales of the Cleft: Vandal?
Quality FM my taffers.

>>3788832
Cragscleft without KOing anyone is a nice feat. That your first time?

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>>3788803
>killing guards
You're the worst thief.

>>3788725

This is probably a bug I think, but if the ai gets alerted enough (e.g they see a dead body), they basically grow eyes on the back of their heads for the rest of the mission. So it doesn't matter if they cooled down and went back to normal and you're sneaking behind them, if your light gem is anything other than pitch black they will turn around and come running at you. This is even more noticeable in thief 2.

>>3789290
I'm not quite sure it's permanent. I happened to trigger it in Ambush after getting a guard alerted so I avoided him for a while since I couldn't get past him like that. When I got back he had normal senses again. If it's a bug, it's just about it "hiding" the alerted status of the guard (making them act like they aren't), so they pop off easily when they hear a sound or see an inch of Garrett's cape. Waiting should do the trick.

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I just learned the horns music is what calms the creatures. Also once you collect the horn on expert you have to traverse outside instead of the mission ending there. Playing the game in expert truly adds more to the game because you're looking for new areas and objectives like that add to the game because the creatures now attack you since the music is gone.

>>3789891
The game was made for Expert first and foremost, so it is the complete experience. This is difficulty done right.

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>>3789891
Thief is one of those games where the game was made for the hardest difficulty first.

Expert is The Thief experience.

>>3789973
Fuck this dwarf C3PO. He got me good the first time. I thought that that gesture he makes was he pointing at me, even though I was hidden. I realized he was harmless a bit too late.

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What's going on here?

>>3790950
pretty comfy desu

Why did Thief 2 increase the amount of HP you have on Normal and Hard?

>>3791358
Thief 1 also does it, normal and hard you have way too much HP.

Expert makes health potions useful, when youtake fall damage or fighting.

>>3791769
No, what this anon meant is that the base health in T2 on Normal/Hard is higher than in T1.

>>3791773
Curious... dont know, the game has less Haunts fucking you, but then again to an inexperience newbie player once you start fighting the Robots they can be pretty hard, and have explosive ammo.

And Normal and hard is easy mode.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5kqnmn4bKM

>>3790950
I hope your hopping game is on point.

>>3791791
Post scary (comfy) Thief music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u27wbsUojlo

>>3788803
The guards are coming.
They know nothing, the stolen
things in my pocket.

>>3791942
whoops

>things in my pocket
should be
>thing's in my pocket

so

>The guards are coming.
>They know nothing, the stolen
>thing's in my pocket.

Are you aloud to split lines in haikus?

The greatest addition of TDM, besides skeletons, is the ability to run downstairs normally. It feels like I'm cheating but it feels good.

>>3791916
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr7sW6vbfM4

>>3791916
https://youtu.be/AHp2kUAGSbc?t=9m27s
This mission is kind of a chore but its style is great. This music fit Masks very well too, since skulking around the empty mansion gives a sense of eerie and mystery.

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>>3791948

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@3788803
>killing guards

Scrubs don't deserve (You)s

>>3791916
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xhLYmklbZo

>>3787687
Only the first panel at the right top looks better, the rest totally missed the mark.

Is there a way to make tx2 run on my thief 2 steam version? Cannot find any help online

>>3795165
Did you install it in the game folder? It's all you have to do, then t2x will have its own executable

>>3795181
Yes, it is installed inside the thief_2 folder and created a new tx2 folder. It even loads up the small window where i can choose between tx2 and normal thief 2 but nothing happens when i click one of those two.
But thief 2 works when i start it through steam.

>>3795186
the fan mission launcher that comes with tafferpatcher fixed that for me

>>3795186
I have kind of the same problem, but the game starts fine when I use the desktop icon instead of the .exe in the folders.

>>3788661
>>3788712
Can't blame the game for the things you fuck up.

Guards that went to full alert once stay at higher alert, so the slightest slip-up will let them do that.

>>3787687

The HD textures look too clean and pristine to be a realistic or adequate update to the original artstyle.

I'll just reduce it to one of the biggest fuckups. Look at the Blackjack. It looks like a big black fucking dildo, not at all like the real thing. There's such a thing as too clean.

>>3787974
I can give T2X a regular replay like any of the other ones.

Agree with you on the Cradle/Cathedral part

>>3795440
>Tafferpatcher
Just installing that on my thief 2, made the t2x.exe and game work.
Thanks, my man.

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>mfw entering this house
Always gives me creeps even if it's an easy task

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>>3796171
I always wonder what kind of marvellous and scary german expressionist experience Thief would be with modern graphics.

The City, the Haunts...

>>3796501
It's hard to imagine. It's almost like the usual T1/T2 graphics make it easy to represent the series' daring style. With a more realistic look it could be masterpiece material, but it wouldn't be the same too.
Also what were those haunts doing in that house. They wanted the Torc, greedy fuckers.

Holy shit, T2X's undead level is good

>>3796949
I wasn't that crazy about it. It's not bad, but not amazing or anything.

It does have some pretty great levels in it. The main character was annoying tho.

>>3797403
I discovered it was quite small only after posting. Its sections are still surprisingly well connected and I liked the style. The crypt theme is always cool, in almost every variation.
I agree on the mc. Probably Garrett spoiled me.

>>3796949
>>3797403
I replayed Down Among Dead Men countless times.

To me, coming back to Thief2X is almost like coming to back of one of the main games. There's certain missions I absolutely love, some of them I play less but do play for the whole experience, and some that are kinda duds. Maw of Chaos and Betrayal are pretty exemplary in that way.

I kinda liked the way that objects and colour palettes were used for that mission. Shit floating around, weird ghostly stuff going on, being able to chop of zombies limbs, all great stuff.

I wasn't crazy about Zhaya either, but she's not really that prominent in the game anyway. I adore the new toolset you're given though. I don't usually go for chaotic playstyles, out of pity for the Guards and it's inconsistent with how Garrett acts on Expert, but spawning maw spiders, cleaning up corpses with locust hives, wreaking havoc with confusions arrows, combustion arrows and such is so much fun in T2X.

On a side note, I find it funny how most fanmissions get a great rep, although they mostly have fan-fiction tier Garretts in them.

>>3797826
There was a guy in these threads a few years ago who could do a perfect Garrett voice.

I wish he would get some work in the Thief community, but it would require non fan-fiction writing. Which is pretty rare.

I wish the writing in FMs was better in general. I want more conversations to eavesdrop on.

>>3797826
>On a side note, I find it funny how most fanmissions get a great rep, although they mostly have fan-fiction tier Garretts in them.

I've just started playing fms, but it's weird how he seems out of place in every situation that isn't from the original games. Maybe it's because the usual Thief narrative has him doing normal thievery tasks, with the plot developing little by little in a bigger scheme. A lone mission has to offer something concrete in a short time.
Dunno, perhaps I just have to try more of them. For now a different character or a silent one are the better option.

>>3799112
I honestly just want a normal thiefy mission... Sneaking around a city, robbing some nobles. I would do it like this:

Difficulty
Normal: Get 1000 loot, Rob a nobleman's house
Hard: Get 2000 loot, Rob 2 noblemen
Expert: Get 3000 loot, Rob 3 noblemen, find hidden trinket.

And the map itself would just be some portion of the city, and you could rob businesses, overhear minor plot points like "Fuckin Ginny is robbin silverware again, what a bitch - wonder where she's hiding it" etc etc... Just a day in the life of Garrett in between Thief 1 and 2. Making rent.

>>3799329
A great fanmission takes a concept like stealing from a moving train and does something creative about it, but in the golden ratio design style of an OM.


There can be bonus objectives, which are especially good when they do world-building and make sense, tying into the overall design (think of the Gilver shipping objective in Shipping and Receiving). Yet they shouldn't be shoehorned in like the Catacombs in Broken Triad for example. It's like 3 mission ideas combined into 1 mess of a mission.

>>3777534

1=2=3

They're all great games in my mind. Y'all have nothing but petty complaints about 3.

>>3799806
Well if I were to do a mission like >>3799329, I'd make all three noblemen involved in a money triangle of some sort and make the mission to plant evidence against each other for the robberies. On easy you only need to frame one, on hard you frame all three...

Has anyone ever done/is it possible to do a multiple pathed set of fan missions? So if you were to complete one objective over another it would change what level you go into next?

So when you buy the first two Thiefs, who does the money go to?

>>3799837
Probably the jews at Square Enix.

>install TDM
>it's lagging to all fuck on my 750ti
>autism prevents me from being able to play it unless everything is maxed

>>3799329
A few FMs do this perfectly, namely Disorientation or Endless Rain.

>>3799823
>Has anyone ever done/is it possible to do a multiple pathed set of fan missions? So if you were to complete one objective over another it would change what level you go into next?

I think there's a script that allows for this.

Paying rent really is a thief's true spirit. Everyone else is a tryhard desu

>>3799810

>Y'all have nothing but petty complaints about 3.
>petty

thief 3 was consolized garbage

>>3799810
Name 1 memorable level in Thief 3 that isn't the cradle.

>>3788803
Another haiku

An eye for an eye.
My arrogance was my end.
But I still live.

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>>3801326

>>3801326
Garrett did nothing wrong though

>>3801379

>Gee, I wonder how come he has a mechanical eye in thief two.

>>3801380
Because the Trickster happen to be the god of chaos and a scumbag. Garrett took a dangerous job because he could do it, being betrayed wasn't his fault.

>>3801386
>an eye for an eye

He lost his eye, and got it back

>My arrogance was my end

garreth thought of himself as a rather big deal, and paid for it.

>but I still live

He is still a cunt, but a wise one.

Shame for his would be gilfriend.

>>3801398
Thought you meant that he loses the eye for an error he's made. At least he proves everytime that he is the big deal.

>>3801889
he thought of himself as a big deal before the whole eye loosing affair.

that wisened him up. That's when he started to become an actual big deal.

Has anyone found a way to turn off texture filtering with New Dark? I vaguely remember someone finding some means to do that, but I may have just made that up.

>>3802561
It fucks up shadows but I think its in cam_ext file , under "texture filtering" turn mipmap mode to 0

Is it only a T2x bug when stationary guards, after looking for you, stand where they stopped searching? Never noticed it in T2, and it's quite obnoxious. And easy to exploit too.

>>3802561
>>3802729
It's actually "tex_filter_mode" to 0 in the cam_ext.

I find it preferable. Game looks a lot more crisp, but yeah, at the cost of blocky shadows.

>>3802729
Oh yeah. That's right. I remember now... Forgot about the shadow thing... Hm...
>>3803568
Thanks.

Burrick bump

Why did Karras have such a funny voice anyways? I remember I was expecting him to be some sort of robotic abomination at the end and that would explain it, but nope he's just some dude with a weird voice

>>3805824
He's just some dude with a weird voice.
I didn't expect him to be a robot/cyborg or anything because Truart didn't seem to think anything weird about him during the eavesdropping mission, and you hear the footsteps and everything...

>>3787730
Thank you. THANK YOU. I thought I was a human on a planet filled with monkeys. I don't need "improved graphix" made by someone who wasn't the original designer and has no idea what my tastes are.

Please, be there someone out there besides me that also argues against NewDark being the standard for Thief. I get it is a popular source port, but what I hate is when any compatibility is waved away with "use NewDark" and it feels like there isn't a single person that isn't me on vanilla.

Yes, I am an insane purist. But I also like my game not broken. NewDark changes the mantle mechanics, meaning I can climb on sign posts and other objects never meant to be mantled on. Plus nothing can beat the twitchiness of vanilla T1 guards.

>>3805838
The newdark mantling system can be reverted to the vanilla version in a config file

>>3805841
This changes everything. I pretty much saw the horrible changes and ripped it out in a fit of rage.

>>3762258
One question, not that I am complaining about the thread being here, but is Thief retro? I mean, I guess I understand, /v/ doesn't seem to focus on this game for some reason, but that doesn't make it old.

>>3805869
>Retro gaming means consoles, computer games, arcade games (including pinball) and any other forms of video games on platforms launched in 1999 and earlier
Thief was 1998. Thief 2 was 2000 but it's basically the same as the first game so it counts.

>>3805882
Well, that is definitely strange. Why is 1999 retro? Unreal was released in 1998 and has been hailed as some of the best graphics we have ever seen in a game. I honestly feel Thief and Thief 2 look just as amazing, never really got the whole "looks like Quake" criticism when they look just as jaw dropping as Unreal.

>>3782150
Cannot agree with 'next to none surreal elements'

>>3782513
They have tried to fix Morrowind. Fixing Morrowind was stupid.

>>3805831
I expected some sort of revelation since the game builds a sort of mystery around him. Although he's the main antagonist he only confronts Garrett at Soulforge, staying in the shadows as much as he does.
He's cool anyway. The opposite of Constantine's big twist: he's not hiding anything (evil plan aside), most of the levels of the game are a proof of his power. The fact that at the end he's just a human in his hideout completes the picture.

>>3782513
That must be weird.

Dont forget to try Hexen 2 and System Shock 2.

Man, even the second T2x undead level was good. Or nice to explore, at least. Shame about the last one. Pagan levels suffer the curse of linearity apparently.

>>3806621
Train level is the best one imo. I like unique levels like that. Felt like the sub level from T2, and I always liked that one as well.

>>3807917
Yeah, that was a nice one. I hoped in a bigger station, or more complicated objectives while on the train, but it was a really interesting moment.
Although somewhat smaller compared to Thief 2, the game feels as open with all the option it gives you to solve its levels, like the brothel one.

you're all taffers

>>3809848
And you're a grubber

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>>3782336
No, not a bit

>>3800916
That had almost no consolization garbage, 3rd person camera aside, and the smaller map areas. I admit the map size is kind of a big deal for many people, but it never was for me. The load times were way more annoying back in the day. Individual areas were designed more intricately though, and ended up being more interesting/interconnected.

>>3800953

Any one of them. The different methods of putting out the security measures for the exhibits in Wieldstrom were cool. The sunken citadel level was great because it expanded the known Pagan universe, fleshed it out with some more lore, and gave you different approach routes to the Kurshok crown.

The Keeper level was the most memorable besides the Cradle. In the beginning you can overhear how divided the Keepers are over current issues, and that the ones you're eavesdropping on will vote a certain way. You can knock them out to influence the votes that will have effects later on in the level (moving special loot object/guard in front of Caduca's chambers or not). The hag's note in her Caduca's quarters was spooky as fuck, and her reveal was one of the most memorable, nerve-wracking moments in the entire series.

There's not one mission I would want to miss out on in Thief 3. My biggest complaint is that there's not enough missions and not enough areas to satiate my thirst for the game. The manual talks about the undead being in certain decrepit parts of town for example, which would have been a great chance to add an Old Quarter type of area, or a sewer area where the criminal underworld frequently are. Anyway I just want to mention how alive the NPCs in the city areas felt. There's at least 2 pubs to hang around, the cool night air to enjoy, people are prompted to talk to each other, have loot on them sometimes, side objectives to fulfill... The game's bursting with content like that. I played it just as much as the other two Thief games.

>>3762423
Bonehoard is one of my favorite levels once I realized that zombies and burricks have the same type of alert levels and sound cues that human npcs have.

>>3774401
I really love Thief's floor surface-sound mechanics. I think it's a really immersive way to do stealth gameplay combined with the heavy shadow use.
Except for trying to tiptoe on marble floors and getting caught despite not making an audible footstep because your pace was just too long to be considered silent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlUujCx_yoA

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>>3782654
>Karras is normal looking

Yeah, I was totally surprised when I finally got to him in Soulforge and he looked just like his portraits. I was really expecting him to be deformed or ugly since they took such pains to not let you see him the whole game.

Based on his voice I expected him to be some kind of Quasimodo/Peter Lorre looking fucker with a totally unrealistic portrait depiction of himself.

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>>3810116
Strong Song of the Caverns vibes at 4:10

>>3810107
I always found it silly that Garret, supposedly a stealth expert, would wear hard-bottomed shoes to a job, knowing full well that the loud clacking sound could give away his presence. Sure, an important game mechanic, but completely retarded from a stealth perspective.

>>3810058

The addition of third person had a huge negative impact on the game, however you look at it. There was no reason to add to a stealth game other than providing a cheat for the impatient new players they so wanted to pull in. Even if you wanted to avoid it and stick to playing in first person, the movement was tied to the character animations from third person so everything would feel floaty and imprecise (a huge difference coming from the first two games) and would often lead to the player falling down or doing some stupid shit because of it. Third person meant there were lots of compromises in level design too. There was no swimming and no rope arrows because they couldn't afford the extra animation work to make it look good. There were no crawlspaces or caves or other places that would require crouching to get to because it would make the camera freak out.

>Individual areas were designed more intricately though, and ended up being more interesting/interconnected.
They were not. Missions were not only separated by loading zones, they were overall much smaller than the originals. And taking away swimmable water, rope arrows, and places that were too narrow/small to navigate, means level designers only had less freedom to make real organic missions.

>The sunken citadel level was great because it expanded the known Pagan universe, fleshed it out with some more lore, and gave you different approach routes to the Kurshok crown.
lmao that was one of the worst missions in the game. Small, ugly, and completely linear. And kurshok and their backstory were pretty forgettable. Only thing memorable about them is how goofy and out-of-place they looked.

>The Keepers
Thief 3 completely butchered the keepers and their organization. They were a mysterious faction in the originals and that worked in their favor. Thief 3 turned them into a bunch of bumbing morons that are completely dependant on "glyph magic" in order to do anything.

>>3810548

Also, the enforcers or whatever they were called. The keepers decide to send them to hunt and they do this by roaming the city streets while murdering everyone they come across. So much for secrecy.

>There's not one mission I would want to miss out on in Thief 3.
The only memorable missions in thief 3 were the cradle, moira's manor, and the museum. Everything else was too short or too bland or too easy to be considered on par with missions from thief 1/2.
And the city hub was a pointless waste of time too. So ridiculously small (and separated into like a dozen loading zones too) that it ruined the original concept of the city as this huge mysterious place that felt impossible to map out. And the faction system was stupid too. Garrett earning the trust of hammerites and pagans (who for some reason decided to start living inside the city this time around) by doing menial tasks was ridiculous and served no purpose whatsoever.

>Anyway I just want to mention how alive the NPCs in the city areas felt. There's at least 2 pubs to hang around, the cool night air to enjoy, people are prompted to talk to each other, have loot on them sometimes, side objectives to fulfill
I bet you love asscreed too

>>3768454
Keepers have always had the insignia of a lock. It signifies both the fact that they keep secrets, and the fact that they basically do nothing. Garrett on the other hand does do things, and does change the future. So he is the key that opens the lock. He was always the one true keeper of the balance. Previously the future was always set by the writings in the library. Set in stone, under lock and key. But Garrett got rid of those writings and opened the door. Now the future is open and there's no telling what lies beyond the door.

>>3810532
SO glad I'm not the only one; that always bothered me too. It's not like caltrops or the like were a common threat...

>>3810532
I always figured that the footstep sounds were "boosted" for the sake of clarity for the player. Think about it, they sound very loud but for most surfaces you need to be quite close to a guard for them to notice. Realistically they'd be able to hear it from much further away and they'd also hear floorboards creaking under the carpet and things like that. So even though it doesn't sound like it, Garrett's still doing a good job of keeping quiet.

>>3810548

> 3rd person complaints.

Still a petty complaint. Wrong in many ways too.

The controls are perhaps bound by design to the 3rd person view. But it also gives you great body awareness.

All you have to do is not move like an idiot. There's nothing floaty or imprecise about it, that's just mostly you not looking where you're putting your feet.

Let's take the best example: Moving across wooden beams. If you just walk over it, not looking where you put your feet, you'll fall down, slip, whatever. If you look down, watch where you put your feet, and make sure you put one foot in front of each other so that you always have your feet on the beam - especially crouched - you will encounter 0 problems with the movement.

> Individual areas

All you say is "they were not" providing no argument. I presented my case, saying that they were more intricately designed and interconnected. Take Stonemarket Plaza for example. There's 3 different entry points into the tavern at least, depending from where you want to go. Stuff like that at least gave it some longevity in replaying the different areas each night, especially with different NPC interactions and loot/item placement.

The loss of rope arrows is lamentable, sure, but the climbing gloves replace them. If there were points in the game that developers would want you to reach with rope arrows, you can now climb there. Not having the swimming ability is a limitation sure, but not one that I noted especially whenever I played the game. Let's remember that Thief 2 first made extensive use of that feature on Markham's Isle, and water before was usually 1 small part of a mission at most.

> Sunken Citadel

I have presented my arguments why it's not so. Especially how you take the crown is objectively not linear, so at least you're wrong on the "completely" part.


> The Keepers

You're completely wrong about this though.

They were a mysterious faction, mostly because you knew nothing about them.

>>3811358

You know that the Keepers basically stand for balance and that once they hid away all the elemental wards. Big deal, the expedition to the Lost City was basically wiped out. Which brings me to the "bumbling idiots" part. They were always dependant on glyphs to save their asses. That is arguably the entire point of Thief 3, to demonstrate that the Keepers are inactive, passive fools concerned so much with this malleable concept of balance that they are destroyed by the oldest Keeper alive ,the Brethren and Betrayer, who from the word go was consumed by the power of Glyphs, namely the one that steals life.

Garrett is the only one who truly is balanced, because he relies on his physical abilities first and foremost, and he constantly tries to shape events, going out of his way to fulfill the prophecy. And don't give me any of that "the other games didn't do that" bullshit. Artemus was jerking Garrett around at the end of Thief 1. They let him go after the Training because they knew they needed him, or more accurately, because they were too fucking frustrated by their values to do it themselves. In Thief 2 they lead you on a bit to fulfill the prophecy but they never really do anything to help you. In Thief 3 they try to hinder you at some point, because they know that the Unwritten Times basically means they will lose all their precious glyph powers, upon which they have relied all throughout the series. How do we know that? Look at almost any cutscene of Thief I/II and they are frought with the glyphs that are finally explained in 3. I used to think that they were just cryptic things without any real meaning, designed to look edgy, but they were given an explanation in 3 finally.

The Enforcers roam the streets because this is Orland's ultima ratio. Don't forget that the Brethren and Betrayer - whom Orland believes to be Garrett at that point - will be the downfall of the Keeper society, one way or another.

What do Tafferbros think of Dishonored in general?

How about other stealth franchises? Does any other one appeal to you?

>>3811361

And they would have sent them after him after Garrett aborted his training, but they didn't because they needed him for future prophecy as the very first mission briefing documents in the Keeper Annals written by Mayar, Third Keeper. Garrett wasn't just some schmuck they picked up for training, he was their most promising acolyte. And they know that you can't just kill Garrett with a trap or simple assassination attempt. He's escaped those before.

It's pretty much clear at this point that the plot either went way above your head, or that you had your head stuck in your reactionary ass from the moment you booted the game because it's different from the originals.

>>3810576

I never had the feeling that the entire city was mapped out, and claiming so is ridiculous. We know that there are more districts than Auldale, Stonemarket, Southquarter, Old Quarter and the Docks. There's Shalebridge for one, and many others that never appear in Thief 3. But they don't all appear in the other games either. They're just not part of this plot, and I always assumed that Garrett only traversed those parts of the City that were necessary to get to the next objective. I agree that having bigger areas would be great, but if it were realistically huge it would be just too much. Imagine having to travel an are at least as big - if not bigger - than the rooftops in Life of the Party before getting to an actual mission are that is just as big. It would be overload, as many fanmissions that do that demonstrate.

The faction system kinda made sense. It all fits into the leitmotiv of balance, as in balancing out your relationship with those factions. Both have tried to kill Garrett, and both have failed often enough. Sueing for peace is a reasonable option, and it gives Garrett the chance to restore his relationship with them for the future, just like he does in the ending when he returnes chalice and paw.

>>3811358
>But it also gives you great body awareness.

Not the anon you're replying to, but you're insane if you think the body awareness in Deadly Shadows is any good. It's clunky and incredibly imprecise. You can fall off narrow spaces like rafters or railings extremely easily, even when looking at your feet. You shouldn't have to look at your feet to move around, come on. There is no sense of touch in games, so games accommodate that with a lenient body awareness. Garrett's in TDS is really slippery and heavy for some reason and results in a lot of unintended actions. Jumping is awful, moving across narrow spaces is awful...

Also while I agree about the glyph part, there is just no excuse for the fiasco that is the Enforcers bit. That was just awful and completely uncharacteristic of the Keepers, who move around extremely stealthily. Artemus even manages to sneak upon Garrett without him noticing him. You'd expect their elite enforcers to be even stealthier than this, even during a very pressing time like this and ESPECIALLY since Garrett is this good at stealth and treachery. The Enforcers are so incompetent at their job it's laughable and they make the Keepers look inept as hell.

>>3811369
>>3810576

> I bet you love asscreed too

And I bet you love being fucked in the ass. I hate assassin's creed, from the pisspoor football game controls to the stupid plot of assassins fighting out in the open. I dropped the game like a dump in my toilet bowl as soon as the protagonist - for NO reason whatsoever - betrayed all the perfectly reasonable vows of secrecy just for the lulz. Assassin's Creed is actually a great example of a terrible "stealth" game that suffered from consolization, bad controls and terrible writing. All the more wind in my sails to demonstrate that a) you don't know what you're talking about b) your complaints are petty at best, reactionary and overly whiny at worst c) you were dead set against the game from the start of the game, colouring your perception of the game as bad from beginning to end and incapable of seeing the positive sides of the game

I think the worst part about Thief threads is the inconsistency and the unadulterated bias of the community.

People usually complain about casualisation of Thief 3 versus the predecessors, while they completely wear nostalgia goggles for Thief 2's casual as fuck difficulty settings with twice as much health, invisibility potions, more tools, more starting gear loadout, more loot, less difficult enemies etc.

People praise fanmissions unanimously, although most of them (and I've played the recommended list and beyond) are terrible missions that suffer from departing OM design .

The Thief mod that actually delivers missions similar to OM standards is derided on the grounds that "I didn't like the voice actress for the protagonist" even though she barely says anything and the core gameplay is about stealth.

And then there's the Thief 3 bashing, and truly , it's not a perfect game. But it was the most worthy, climactic ending to a trilogy of games that I've seen. The plot delivers in that game, at the very least, because it gives the preceding stories direction in a dialectic way.

>>3811370

>You shouldn't have to look at your feet to move around, come on.

So in real life, if you walk across narrow beams you'd never think to look at your feet? Even if you could plummet to death, or break your legs?

It seems you haven't read my post, because what you complain about is fixed by looking precisely at what you're doing with your feet and where you're putting them.

>>3811376
I wouldn't know because I don't typically walk on narrow beams that could kill me. Point is it's annoying in a game.

>>3811376
This is a false equivalency and you know it. You can't compare real life and a video game body awareness since, like I said, there is no sense of touch and there is no way to move your feet in TDS like you would in real life. It's all arbitrarily decided by the game through collision with geometry and your inputs, and both feet are controlled at once. Say I'm on a rafter and I want to move my left foot a few centimeters to the right so I don't fall off. I press +right, but then my right foot also moves to the right. Now, with TDS' body awareness, there is a huge chance of slipping off that beam while it wouldn't be the case with Thief 1 and 2 because its body awareness is 1) designed for first person only and 2) much more lenient, if clunky in its own way.

>>3811368
Dishonored is a lot of fun with a great potential, but it's made easy by the abilities that are given to the player and the removal of the limitations that makes stealth your strongest weapon in Thief. Like I said somewhere in the thread, it could use a greater challenge built around your possibilities, which are in a sense made to be game breaking. Still have to play Dishonored 2 though.
After accepting that only Thief is like Thief I've come to appreciate most stealth games for their unique aspects but I usually prefer the ones based around senses and level design. Styx does this well for example, and I'd like to see if ghosting Deus Ex is doable.
Never played Metal Gear and Splinter Cell because I'm not big on the espionage setting, but I wonder if they're a valuable addition to the genre.

>>3811361
I like your take on Garrett's character. I felt that TDS' plot was really satisfying when I finished it a while ago, and mostly because of how he changed through the trilogy.
He goes after Constantine for revenge reasons but he also knows that he's fucked in the head and needs to be stopped. That's all he needs to know about Karras. He still despises the Keepers' ways but like the he wants to protects the City. And finally he embraces the responsability that comes with knowledge and acts to spot Gamall. It sure feels complete.
The clocktower thing is a bit retarded though. Sure, his intuition was right, but the whole premise of the mission looks out of place with the always cautious Garrett.
Pointing out the importance of the tower for the City could have helped, maybe.

>>3762258
So guys, I also happen to be a lurker on /g/ and so have been told to install Gentoo. The problem is that I have an addiction to Thief that means I cannot use an OS where a vanilla 1.14 install doesn't work natively. Does vanilla 1.14 work in Linux? If I have to use WINE, does it cause any negatives in regard to performance?

>>3811441
>The clocktower thing is a bit retarded though.

If you look at the very earliest ingame screenshots of TDS, you can see that the clocktower was one of the earliest levels to be designed. It probably went through a lot of changes and became what it is very late in development. To me it always felt like a level designed with heavy use of rope arrows in mind, that ended up in a game without rope arrows. How else to explain the ridiculous concept of climbing to the top and working your way down? The climbing gloves are too limited in their uses to allow the player to scale the tower upwards.

Garrett's logical leap with stopping time is probably part of the compromise, whatever it may have been.

>>3811537
>Garrett's logical leap with stopping time is probably part of the compromise, whatever it may have been
Probably they first had the tower concept and then they had to find a place for it in the story, but I wouldn't know. Weird level, perhaps it could have used a bigger context, like needing to discover how to enter the tower first. Instead it's just linear, and it was probably the only time I felt like backtracking was a real bother.
It's strange how the gloves seemed like a revolutionary thing at first and then I found them hard to apply in most situations.

what makes thief gold/DP so much unnerving/haunting/lonelier to play than T2 or even T3?

>>3811628
The setting of the various missions changes almost every time. Even when it's not about undead and cursed ruins, you have to figure out weird, unknown places, hostile and full of secrets. It was still makes the game so unique for me, the fact that Garrett's job makes him, virtually, an enemy for everyone and at the same time no one.
In Thief 2 your objective is clear after the first missions, and the Mechanists' theme of the game is since the second one. More focused, less confused, but I loved that confusion.
Thief 3 describes quite a focused picture of The City, the mystery is almost completely gone, you know what you're doing. Since is the opposite of the first one, it can be cool in the same way.

>>3811628
There's one thing that people often miss, and it's monochromatic lightmaps. Thief 1 feels much more cold and alien because there is no warmth to any of the lighting. Also the skies are always clear with tiny single-pixel sized stars twinkling. It feels dead and mysterious in a creepy but good way.

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>>3811108
If I only could, I'd do a barefoot-mod, where the thief character walks around barefooted, thus nearly eliminating the sound of footsteps. But to balance it off, because bare feet are vulnerable, stepping on hazardous surfaces, like broken glass would drain health points, eliminate the ability to run due to injuries, and severe enough injuries would cause bleeding and leave behind bloody foot prints, which the guards would be able to follow to track you to your current location. Bandages could be used to close the wounds, but these would be consumable items that must be either bought, or scavenged from the game world, so limited availability.

Level design could center around this mechanic. Valuable targets could have sharp obstacles surrounding them, necessitating finding a detour, or some way to clear the obstacle.

>>3812482

that sounds like a very convoluted way of achieving the same goal as the default system. Footsteps were loud because they were meant to give feedback to the player, see >>3811335

>>3811368
Haven't played Dishonored, so no comment. But I absolutely adore the Metal Gear Solid games, MGS3 in particular, where they used the face paints and camo clothes to further enhance the stealth system. It was a very immersive system, used really well.

The Hitman-games had the right idea, but it was often ruined with a piss poor NPC AI. You don't know frustrating, until you've tried to ghost the Japan missions in Hitman 2: Silent Assassin, where the AI flat out cheats.

>>3811335
Up until you're dealing with grating or marble floors, you have a point. But once you hit those two surfaces, there's no excuse...guards can hear you across half the level if you take one incautious step on those surfaces, sometimes even through a closed door. Which brings us back to WTF Garrett would bring hard-heeled boots on the job.

>>3811368
I agree with >>3811423 that Dishonored is way too easily broken with just Blink, and Dark Vision(very easily obtainable by the first mission) breaks the game so badly even Batman winces.
From what I've seen, Dishonored 2 isn't much better in that regard, but that might be good players too.

So was Constantine actually The Trickster, captial T, or was he just a wannabe hopped up on magic power, like how Karras thought he was the Builder incarnate?
Karras and Gamall are both about equal in power. Capable of great feats but ultimately stil human, Yet they still feel more like a real threat than Constantine did in the first game

In no small part because of how complicated killing them was, compared to "sneak in and swap his magic rock for a bomb"

>>3812854
These are my subjective thoughts on the matter:

Constantine was the real Trickster. Back in ancient times he ruled over humans as a god because a big powerful magic demon is a real threat to a bunch of cave people. But humans developed technology, ie. The Master Builder invented the Hammer, and the Trickster could no longer compete because of his self-imposed obsolescense. He spent centuries or even millenia in hiding, trying to gain the upper hand, and in his research he finally stumbled upon a power greater than he is, which was the Keeper glyph magics in the form of The Eye.

So Constantine really was the Woodsie Lord, and the Woodsie Lord used to be a god. But a sad, pathetic obsolete god who rejected the reality of his fall from power, which ended up being his ultimate undoing.

>>3812854
>>3813136

I think this explanation makes the most sense.

Although Constantine should technically be a way bigger deal than the later antagonists, I think the fact that he's sort of a defunct god is what balances him out compared to a mortal like Karras.

Then again, Karras may be merely a man, but he did invent what appear to be semi-autonomous robots and live-feed video surveillance with what appears to be coal burning furnace engines and wax cylinders, so you know.

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>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku2JQsxNwDI

I've always thought Karras' voice was a weird Peter Lorre impression that accidentally sounded exactly like Droopy, but I'm starting to think maybe he's supposed to be a Vincent Price impression.

>>3813763
Stephen Russell talks about the origin of Karras' voice in this interview: http://www.fancypantsgangsters.com/shows/ep-86-stephen-russell/

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>>3813774
At first I wanted to immediately find the part when he talks about it, but I ended up listening all of it anyway. The fact that my favorite major cunt in vidya is voiced by such a cool dude is great.

>>3811380
> realistic body movement is annoying in games

Yet everyone praises body awareness in Dark Messiah for example. And it too requires you to look where you're going often enough.

>>3811382

You do have fucking eyes though. And it's not arbitrarily decided, if you put your foot down on the beam, you're safe. Even on the narrowest spaces, if you proceed precautiously you will not fall down. And it's not a false equivalency, it's more like mimesis. The game is imitating real life.

Real life: Look down and keep an eye on where you put your feet, or you fall down and die.

Game: Look down and keep an eye on where you pur your feet, or you fall down and die.

While a sense of touch would be helpful, it's not necessary. The bare minimum of precaution while moving is enough not to fall down.

Seriously, either everyone in here is a complete control spastic, has never played a game with true bad controls, or just likes to levy petty claims against Thief 3 in lack of good arguments against the game.

I always found the climbing in Thief 1 and 2 worse, because even if you mantle at a good spot you can fall down for no fucking reason and plummett to your death, which is way less of a problem in Thief 3.

>>3811441
I'm glad you feel that way.

It's a plot modeled after Hegelian Dialectic, but it is only made obvious or consummated by the third installment.

Plot 1 / Thesis: Chaos/Nature

Constantine basically stands for chaos, wildness and nature. His mansion is a good reflection of all these 3 aspects if you recall. He wants to bring back the wild and wicked things, night and terror so that life is more awesome and fantastical to man. He basically wants the old times of entropical nature back. His way of life is too extreme to be beneficial for The City, so Garrett stops him.

Plot 2 / Antithesis: Technology/Order

Karras is a delusional technocrat who deems all natural life to be inferior due to its flaws. Machines run perfectly, and don't disappoint you like people do. His plan is to kill all organic life in The City (as well as the planet), which is quite obviously not a viable life strategy for the citizens, so Garrett stops him.

Plot 3/ Synthesis: Corruption/Balance

The Keepers are inevitably next. They have had a hand in The City's fortunes since it was built, silently and passively watching over the social and technological developments. They are a bit like the Guardians from Plato's Republic: Collectivist, philosophers, scholars, physically adepts, and all care about the flourishing of the State. Yet the Glyph magic and their own inaction has made them corrupt. They hide so much in their secrecy, fearing to lose their power and deeming everyone else unfit to rule for themselves, that their secrecy itself has become the diseased corruption of the City. Their rule thwarts the responsibility of each individual, especially THE individual Garrett. He takes them out, being a creature of action and healthy self-interest (saving the City because he isn't self-sufficient) and rids the City of it's final unhealthy extreme: Secrecy, imbalance and corruption in form of the Keepers.

>>3814307
TDS was pretty decent plot-wise, but the telling of the story fell a bit flat later in the game for me. BUT I never understood the hate it got, overall.

Gameplay wise it was a lot of fun and made good use of the dynamic shadows. Everything that's fixable (aside from the in-engine cutscenes - they need to be replaced imo) has been to my knowledge. Even the mission briefings got animated versions.

it deserves all the hate it got

thi3f was the thi4f of its time

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>>3817245
The false prophet is dead and I have renounced his heresy. Can I join your club?

>>3817313
>I have renounced his heresy
>Still carries the false prophet's mace

How dare thou speak to me, heathen?

>>3817427
Did I smash gears together to forge my weapon?
Did I order a boiler to spit out a ready contraption?
Nay, for I did raise my Hammer and strike at the ingot upon the anvil.
Does the shape of the implement determine whether it can be used for the Builder's glory or not?
...Or is it the work of thy own hands in its construction and use that brings His appreciation... or forgiveness?

>>3817537
Last I checked the builder didn't forgive without punishment paid. You know. Hand scolding, or nose cropping or some such. Probably nothing to make a hammer lame I assume...

Missions where expert=shitton of objectives are the worst. They should be hard to get done, not an exhaustion challenge.

>>3819438
Agreed. When Thief 4 came out, so did millions of sweaty mantits all bitching about how the earlier games had you looting and looting and looting.

The looting was TEDIOUS and BORING.

>>3819438
I like to have additional and harder objectives on higher difficulties, as long as it doesn't go overboard (I hate forced ghosting for the whole mission for instance).

>>3819453
The looting was tedious and boring in Thi4f or in the earlier games? It certainly was in the former because EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF LOOT in the entire game has a 1-2 second long unskippable animation and there is a lot of shit to steal in this game. It gets old incredibly fast.

>>3819459
Both. It felt like I was just looting for completion's sake rather than for a reason, like it was tacked on. The actual game is good, but you could remove the looting and make it strictly about terrorism and infiltration, and wind up with an equally good game.

>>3819461
Yes, but you're not being a thief anymore. Also discovering devious places with hidden loot is a huge incentive for exploration. I never understood the very few people who dislike this aspect.

>>3819459
>I like to have additional and harder objectives on higher difficulties
I like that too, but in some cases it feels like they're there just for the sake of filling the missions of things to do. This tends to happen in huge levels where the creator wants you to explore and search. This is good, but everything needs balance.

>>3810058
if it can cheers you up, some people modded deadly shadow to have the missions areas of each levels connected in one , seemless map.

>>3819438
>>3819453

Disagree wholeheartedly.

Expert objectives usually test how aware you are of your surroundings in a map. Even on hard you have to find the navigators glove on Markhams Isle for example. It's not that difficult to find, you basically only have to find a way to the rooftop.

Also the Expert objectives felt like they expanded the mission more, and just gave you more to do when you got around to that difficulty. Bonehoard is a perfect example, where you just basically have to get another gem, but it's locked behind an otherwise unaccessible puzzle.

I know it's often pushed in these threads, but the optimal way of going through the game is with increasing difficulty, not starting out on expert.

>>3820524
Those missions are the ones with good objectives. They feel complete if you play them in expert and your path through the level connects them naturally. The two gems in Bonehoard are two different challenges with different leads to find to get to them. For the one on Markhams you have to explore an area that the main objectives don't require you to go in and so on.
I just happened to play some fms recently that were full of simple but sparse objectives that felt disconneted with my main search. Trying to complete them felt like a secondary task more than a part of the level, which isn't always bad, but in that case it was all about it.

>>3787732
>modder
>girlfriend
no way

>>3821406

Then I guess we have no quarrel. I think most fms are entirely designed around tedious objectives that take hours to be completed, amplified on Expert difficulty.