Hi /vr/, I was wondering if any of you had experience with the

I played Wizardry Gaiden: Suffering of the Queen but I never finished the first floor because those primitive dungeon crawlers are too boring for me.

The Llylgamyn Saga and New Age of Lyllgamyn (PS1) both have options for full English play (the entire original games are still on disc, and it seems as if the game layers over all of the graphical enhancements or something like that depending on your graphical/language preferences.

These are arguably the best ways to play Wizardry, at least the first 5, as they contain automapping features, improved sprites and music, and a few other tweaks while sacrificing none of the RNG fuckery of Wizardry.

Though I should say I haven't played New Age of Lyllgamyn myself, which has Wiz 4 and 5, so I am less familiar with how it operates.

>>3741583
>they contain automapping features, improved sprites and music
If you consider those an improvement. A downside is that you can't use the full keyboard. A Windows version supposedly exists but it has disappeared for a while now.

For Wizardry 5 the FM Towns offers the best quality sprites and CD audio without any compromises on controls or the like.

4 has easier versions on PCE-CD and PS1 if you want to play it without going crazy.

>>3741636
The PCE-CD remakes of Wizardry sadly do not contain the full English text - only smatterings of English (story/puzzle/trap text is in Japanese).

>if you consider those an improvement

I sure do!!! While it cheapens a few aspects it prevents most first-time Wizardry experiences from being "let's be trapped in the dark hallway on F1 forever"

>>3741718
I believe it's best to go into Wizardry with some experience in dungeon crawlers on your back.
Begin with something easy like M&M3 or 4+5 and then gradually adapt to the bigger challenges of M&M1, Wiz 5 and finally Wiz 1 or 6.

>>3741821
Wiz 1 is not really difficult. Just grind against Murphy's Ghost until your characters are all level 10+.

>>3741718
automap in wizardry would trivialize the game, on the bright side it's optional

>>3741562
it is weird that nobody in the west seems to have played these (including me, I'm afraid), I've never seen any kind of write up of how they compare to the western 1-3

>>3741981
You're still up against wrapping maps with one way doors and various kinds of traps.
Enemies can surprise you and take you out with instant kill and draining.
Grinding isn't necessary, if anything it makes you more susceptible to foolishness.

I wanna play the Nip ones on DS. Time to start learning japanese.

http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2061/
throb of the demons heart got translated a while back.
definitely worth a go

>>3741582
That's pretty good. I usually get bored before I'm even done with party creation.

I'm playing through all sorts of Japanese RPGs by release date. I'm largely done with 1990 so Gaiden 1 should be on the horizon but I keep finding new series to start, go back to games I skipped and took a break to concentrate on studying.

>>3741562
wiz gaiden 4 is really good

>>3744630
Is the basic gameplay based on Wizardry V like in Gaiden 1-3 or is it more like Wizardry VI and VII?

>>3744729
it's closer to old wizardry, yeah

if you told me it was by the original devs i'd believe it

>>3741583

>want to make an eboot of New Age of Lyllgamyn to play on my psp

>get a bin/cue file

>convert it to iso

>use PSXPSP to make an eboot

>transfer the game

>wont even boot up

fuck

>>3741718
>trapped in the dark hallway on F1 forever

but thats the best part about wizardry, instead of mindlessly killing things you're thinking of every step and strategizing constantly which moves to make in battle.

The first few hours is usually spent grinding in the hallway next to the ladder.You also don't need automapping theres a spell for that and theres even a ring that casts automap infinitely.

>>3745726
>You also don't need automapping theres a spell for that and theres even a ring that casts automap infinitely.
That's only in the SFC port and only if you select a certain option.
Normally DUMAPIC will give you your coordinates and orientation.

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>>3745735
It shows the whole explored map to me.

>>3745747
In what version?

>>3745747
>>3745753
>15x15
gameboy color?

seriously turn off automap DUMAPIC, don't be a homo

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>>3746472
>15x15
It's 16x16 since it starts counting at 0.
>seriously turn off automap DUMAPIC, don't be a homo
You can't turn it off. Also the Malor spell is even better since it also shows you the map and you can select the target on it.

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>>3745747
>>3746559
Why do dungeon maps get me so hard.

Truly art.

>>3746472
GBC Wizardry isn't really the same game anyway. It has a different dungeon layout and a different game system.

>>3747724
But those maps are from Wizardry Gaiden 1 for the original Game Boy which was released a year after Wizardry VI.
Why should it use the same game system as Wizardry I?

>>3747908
Maybe because it's a Game Boy game?

>>3747908
>Why should it use the same game system as Wizardry I?
Because it's supposedes to be a remake of Wizardry 1 and other remakes like the PS1 or SNES kept the system and maps.

>>3747934
>Because it's supposedes to be a remake of Wizardry 1
What? How could you possibly come to that conclusion? If it was supposed to be a port of Wizardry 1 it wouldn't have it's own bloody title.

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>>3749245
The own bloody title of "Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord"?

>>3749252
This guy >>3747908 said:
>Wizardry Gaiden 1
Sounds like he's talking about a different game to that m8.

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>>3749252
>>3749254
Yeah, here we go. This is the game in question. Who's the dummy now.

>>3749254
Wizardry Gaiden 1 is for the GB. There are no Gaiden games or so for the GBC.

>>3749260
>>3749258
>>3749254
>>3749252
So if I wanted to play a GB/C Wizardry, what would you all suggest to someone who's never played Wizardry before? I have a ton of Shin Megami Tensei 1st person dungeon experience, but haven't played much else.

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Does anyone know how to transfer characters from game to game in the SNES port of I-II-III ?
I can't find the option for that.

>>3744356
Is there a list you're going through? Just curious.

>>3749258
>images.duckduckgo.com.jpg

What a relief, I thought my computer was broken. It seems like this happens to other people too.

Why do images saved with duckduckgo have a .com extension?

>>3750741
It's not an extension, they just include the URL in their default filename. So it's the other type of .com.

>>3750679
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_role-playing_game_franchises
I believe I went
DQ1, MM1, DQ2, FF1, MT1, PS1, DQ3, Ys 1+2, FF2, PS2, Xak 1, Hyd1, DS2, MM2, MT2, Xak 2, DQ4, DS6. FF3, TM0, FE1
There are still 80s series like Mother, Saga, Exile or Herakles and I still want to play some American series like Dungeon Master or the ADnD games.

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So I've played Gaiden 1 for a bit. Explored the first floor with the standard party and now I've created my own.
Gameplaywise they are a simplification of the stuff in 5, for instance weapons come in two length, you have to search for secret doors and unlock certain doors. Magic items have more fancy names than the standard +1.
Stat maximums are determined by race instead of being fixed to 18. Character creation bonuses seem to be the normal 7,8,9,10,17,18,19,20 compared to the higher values possible in 5.
One annoyance is that you have to sleep in order to regain spells which makes healing up even more bothersome. The hotels seem as pointless as ever.

The automap doesn't feel very useful. It's not mapping rotors and calling it requires too many steps.

>>3749642
I'd say they're alright for you.

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I had babby maps, for little babies.

>>3751609
Ultima dungeons are largely harmless. Peer gems let you view the whole floor and the maps are fairly simple.
The only really tough part are the rooms in 4 and 5 which require you to stand in random squares and take forever to navigate with a large party.

>>3751446
Rad, thanks for the insight. Should I start with the first or another? The series is pretty dense so I have no idea.

>>3751631
Start with whichever game you want.

Here are a few important tips for most Wizardry games:
>Don't use any human characters (this isn't D&D). Humans start with the lowest attribute scores without having any advantage.
>The Bishop class sounds great on paper (learns all mage and cleric spells and can identify for free) but their spell advancement rate is horrible. They need about 10 million EXP to learn all spells. It's a far better idea to create a cleric or mage and then class change them to the other class once you have learned all spells. Hell even Samurai and Lords learn level 7 spells earlier then Bishops.
>Always sleep in the stables and use spells to heal. The other beds cost money and make your characters age quickly.

>>3751682
Interesting, that's good info, much appreciated.

>>3751631
I'm going to assume you can start with the first.
On a quick glance the second one seems more of the same.
The third one on the other hand adds classes and races from 6 to the mix. No idea how that eventually plays out. It also has some two player features beyond character transfers.

For the main series you have:
1 which is the archetypal party based dungeon RPG.
2 and 3 which are addons for 1 with extra dungeons for those looking for more of the same.

4 which is a perversion of the other games in where you play the bad guy, recruit monsters and fight heroes. Needless to say, it's brutally hard.

5 which is a return to the classic gameplay with some additions to spice it up.

Characters can be exported from 1-3+5. 1 and 2 allow full imports, 3 and 5 basically create a new character with the same name and class.

6-8 which is a series in its own right with few links to the rest.
You transfer your party from 6 to 7 and from 7 to 8.

>>3751746
Awesome thank you; I've never seen the series broken down like that before. I think I'd like to start with 1, and I'd like to play the GBC version but I need to get a bootleg or an EverDrive to play the 'translated' version.

Shouting out to Elminage which is Wizardry in everything but name and a decent series. Only two are in English (PSP of Elminage Original and a rather poor port of Elminage Gothic) but they're great to play.

If you know Japanese, Elminage Ibun is Wizardry in Edo Japan with an actual plot.

>>3751773
Keep in mind that the GBC version of 1 differs from the rest with smaller maps and the race based max stats.
You don't need extra translations. All Japanese versions of Wizardry 1-5 except for the PCE-CD come with an option to play them in English.
The available translation patches, e.g. for the SFC, only translate extra text that wasn't originally there such as spell descriptions.

>>3751806
I knew the Famicom versions were like that, but I didn't know the GBC version was. It's too bad this game is apparently super rare on GBC.

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>>3751806
Are you sure that the spell descriptions were added with the patch?
Because I was playing the SFC version with the AGTP patch and many spells either have typos (Calfo, Manifo, Latumapic, Tiltowait), are incomplete (Haman, Mahaman) or are completely wrong (Dialko, Madi, Makanito).

>>3751682
Bishops have one very useful ability: they can identify. This can save/make you a lot of money.
The thing is, they don't need a high level to use it. Keep a bishop in the town and take him to the dungeon when you find things that are expensive to identify. Even if he needs a dozen attempts there is no way it can harm you. (5 modified this so that bishops become frightened when they fail to identify something.)

Lords are quick to learn spells. The main drawback is that you can't start with one.

>>3752080
>Lords are quick to learn spells.
Quick is relative.
I think they start with level 1 priest spells and gain a new spell level every 3 levels. This means they would need level 19 for level 7 priest spells.
>Mages and priests get level 7 spells at level 13.
>Samurai need level 21 for level 7 mage spells.
>Bishops get level 7 mage spells at level 25 and level 7 priest spells at level 27.
But with the exponentially increasing exp requirements for each level it's unfeasable to reach a level higher than 14 or 15.

>>3752131
Lords start learning spells from level 4 and they get new spell levels for every 2 level just like the priest.
Samurai get every 3.

>But with the exponentially increasing exp requirements for each level it's unfeasable to reach a level higher than 14 or 15.
XP flatten out once you reach level 13. From that point you only need 300-500k for each.
It's perfectly reasonable to reach level 20 in Knight of Diamonds since you need level 13+ to even reach the second floor.
Heart of the Maelstrom goes even higher.

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>A Knight of Diamond item can be friendly
I didn't expect this.

I want to get into Wizardry (and dungeon-crawling as a whole, my only crawler was Dark Spire on NDS), should I start with the first one? What platform will be the best?

>>3752453

not retro but I would suggest starting with tales of the forsaken land on the PS2, older wizardry will rape your lovely little butthole

>>3752473
The old ones aren't that bad, they're just rough at the start.

>>3751085
You absolute madman. That must be quite the journey!

If you're going by release dates though, some of those are out of order.

>>3750281
IRC, you copy the save file from one slot to another.

>>3752871
As I said, I ended up pushing more series into it. Initially I was only considering FF, DQ and PS.
Tengai Makyou Zero was an outlier because someone here said I should play it before Ziria.

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>>3751839
They're definitely Japanese. I don't have a high level character to see if the descriptions were wrong but I somewhat doubt it.

Jesus christ it's like the Spirit of Xorphitus was written by Tim Buckley. Why?

>>3741636
Played the PS1 version of Wizardry 4. The fact the monsters respawn after you load instead of after you save makes the game a lot safer.

Still hads tons of fun, one of my favorite games. Shame 5 is such a downgrade

>>3752484
Getting level drained is pretty rough.

I admit I could only finish the first one by savestating against draining enemies. Still a grindfest, but that enemy on the first floor helps a lot.

>>3753578
What's wrong with 5? It may not be as challenging as 4 but the finale is still tough as hell.

>>3753583
The classic approach is to reset the game if you get drained. The game saves your progress after fights and movement so if you reset you can restart from before the fight took place.
It doesn't work when your entire party got wiped out.

>>3741562
Anyone know if there has been any effort to retranslate New Age of Llylgamyn for the PSX? I't essentially the best version of 4 by far, but even switching to the built in English mode only translates a few things and leaves plenty of key text in Japanese.

On a related note does anyone have any info on some of the GameBoy and GBC Wizardys? I found a great site for "Suffering of the Queen" and "Curse of the Ancient Emperor", but Gaiden 3 and both of the Wizardry Empires seem to be a mystery.

I'm impressed with how little documentation they have, they seem to be some of gaming's final frontiers to me now.

>>3753873
Judging from Wikipedia and gameplay videos they are similar to the rest.

>they seem to be some of gaming's final frontiers to me now.
Japanese non-h Windows games are. For console games you can normally find game images and even many computers have relatively complete collections but Windows games don't have a centralized distribution site so finding a copy is a quest on its own.
Isozone has Empire 1 and 2 so there's at least something.
Windows Llylgamin Saga has a translation patch but the game itself isn't easily obtainable.

Then there's Japanese mobile games for iAppli etc that may as well be lost forever.
For Wizardry there was "Wizardry Original" which were the original 3 scenarios and games with the name of "Wizardry, "Wizardry Traditional", "Wizardry1" and "Wizardry2" with original scenarios.

>>3741562
>SNES Wizardry 6
>best looking version of the game by a mile, actually different environments instead of everything looking exactly the same ala PC versions or the hideous early 3D dungeons of the Saturn port
>good soundtrack and audio instead of the earrape that was the original game
>plays smoothly, even if it's noticeably slower than the other console Wizardry ports
>BUT
>Multiclassing instantly breaks the game because the game gives you full benefits for every single level up instead of giving you shit all for HP and SP until you catch up to the original class' level so you can run around with 600 HP monstrosities
>and obviously you can't import into W7
Why is it the one that's actually fun to play by itself is the one that has a majorly fucked mechanic like that? That's even worse than the Fighter bug where they take double damage.

>>3755374
The solution would be not to multiclass. It's already too useful in VI.

Did they fix the bugs/features from the original where your starting attributes and class determine your carrying capacity and regeneration?

>>3741562
Snes Wizardry IS UTTER SHIT

DON'T TELL ME ITS GOOD
DON'T TELL ME YOU OWNED IT
DON'T TELL ME YOU PAID $50 WHEN IT CAME OUT TO PURCHASE IT
DON'T TELL ME IT'S A GOOD CAPCOM GAME
DON'T TELL ME YOU ENJOY THE LACK OF AUTOMAPPING
DON'T TELL ME ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT THE GAME

because if you genuinely think Snes Wizardy is good, you are a poser my friend. A phoney, a fake - a nothing.

Shit game

>>3755429
As far as I know, but it's not like it's easy to tell given that VI has all but stamina regeneration happen at a snail's pace.

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>>3755467
I checked it out and carrying capacity is definitely dependent on your current strength.
I made a female fairy bard with STR 11 and then class changed to thief. Carrying capacity dropped from 84 to 36.

>>3755465
>i never played gaiden IV

>>3755568
>>3755465
>I also never played Story of Llylgamyn

>>3756164
to be fair the translation for that is shit

>>3756168
It seems they only translated menus and the spell descriptions and that shouldn't hold anybody back.
You can get the spell descriptions elsewhere.
http://wizardryarchives.com/downloads/archivesmanual.pdf
http://www.tk421.net/wizardry/wiz15spells.shtml

>>3757484
The SNES versions of Wizardry I and III have the same spell table as the DOS versions but Wizardry II has a different spell table which is the same as the NES port of Wizardry II that rebalanced the whole game.

By the way it also use the floor layouts from the NES version.


I wonder if the PS1 port is closer to the original or if they did the same thing there too.

>>3757508
Wasn't that rebalancing done so you could start from level 1 instead of importing a party from I? Why would you implement that when both games are bundled?
Did they implement the spells from V? They evened things out a bit.

>>3757554
Here are the changes:

Priest spells:
>KANDI lowered from level 5 to level 2
>DIAL lowered from level 4 to level 3
>BADIAL lowered from level 4 to level 3
>LOMILWA increased from level 3 to level 4
>BAMATU increased from level 3 to level 4
Mage spells:
>MELITO from Wizardry V added to level 2
>MORLIS lowered from level 4 to level 3
>TZALIK from Wizardry V added to level 4
>ZILWAN lowered from level 6 to level 5
>LADALTO from Wizardry V added to level 6

The most helpful change is the added LADALTO. I really don't like the level 6 mage spell list in the original.

>>3757647
And those changes only affect Knight of Diamonds?
I would have prefered it they added an option to choose between the spells from 1 and 5 like you can choose the Hide command.

I'm missing LITOFEIT. That spell makes the game less suicidal.