Is this sentiment something you might agree with?

>>3726882
It might help if you explained what it meant, I googled it and it means "foreign games are crap".

For everything up to the snes I can agree, Japan dominated in the 80's and early 90's, but honestly the when we got to the playstaion 1 era it really started to even out, with games like wipeout and crash bandicoot along with rare's output. I'd say the ps2 was the last real generation where it seemed relatively even, these days japan is really far behind what is being done in the west, with exceptions to games like dark souls.

Yôgê isn't the same as Yoge.

That sentiment isn't as widespread with modern games.

>>3727001
It would be pretty weird if it still was, honestly. I think hardware wise it is still a bit of a thing, given the small pc market and practically non existent xbox sales.

It's a bullshit fake meme that needs to die. Nobody in Japan believes this anymore.

The whole idea comes from the 90s era, when Japanese gamers had little exposure to Western PC games and judged all of the West based on the badly translated (into Japanese) shit-in-a-box from companies like Tengen.

The fact is that the good Western games have always garnered respect from Japanese gamers: Wizardry, Nethack, Prince of Persia, SimCity, Civilization, Diablo, Paradox strategy games, GTA, Bioshock, Oblivion and Skyrim, Last of Us... they give respect where respect is due.

>>3727019
>Wizardry
Yes
> Nethack
Well probably
> Prince of Persia, Civilization, Diablo, Paradox strategy games
Uhh they did?…
> Bioshock, Oblivion and Skyrim, Last of Us
Now here I lost your line of thought completely, in regards to what "give respect means". Because, it certainly didn't mean sales.

3D shooters have always been selling like shit in Japan. The most popular one on PS3 were multiplayer stuff like CoD and Battlefield, they sold in the range of 100–300,000 copies on the platform (not much compared to millions in the West). Then, Oblivion sold around 300,000 copies there in total for both PS3 and X360. Skyrim sold around 350,000. As for Last of Us, agin, it managed to sell around 250,000 copies too.

If you talk about influence, can you name many Western-style Japanese games? FPS, maybe? Japanese games which play like Oblivion and such?

If you meant sales, you should have mentioned Crash and DKC. DKC remains probably the most successful foreign-developed series in Japan beside Wizardry.

>>3727019
>Start off with good games then slip in a couple of shitty games at the end as if nobody would notice
Lol.

That being said, the notion that western games are always dog shit is actually way more common among developers and upper brass rather than common gamers which is why we think they think this. I remember reading somewhere that a guy from Square Enix brought in Bioshock one time for everyone at the office to play and some senior management guy come in, plays for 5 minutes and declared the game to be complete horseshit.

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>>3726882
I agree, but as others have said, the current Japanese home console market is fucked, and thus their industry too. By the end of last year, PS4 sold around 3.3 mln, less than Wii U. PS3's 10 millions total were also rather disappointing.

I think there are 2 big reasons for this: video game budgets rose over time, and Japan is no Hollywood to compete with multimillion blockbusters; and X360 destroyed Japanese monopoly in the West, prompting Sony to westernize too.

So Japan got pretty much owned. Their main export home console is now Western shit. Wii U was a dead from its release, and XBOne will never sell more than 2 millions there. So what's left to them is portables, but they are also facing alleged competition from smartphones. So everything is looking very grim for Japan, I don't blame their output reducing so significantly.

>>3727505
>but they are also facing alleged competition from smartphones
Smartphones that mind you - aren't domestically produced at all (the world's preeminent smartphones being american and korean) and the most popular games certainly not being made in Japan either, not even Pokemon Go is Japanese.

I've long noticed pretty much the biggest games from Japan right now are anime fighters and Souls, which in any other time in history would have been relegated to obscurity compared to other Japanese games. There's also the proliferation of japanese adult games in the west since that's literally the only viable market they have anymore and the only one we're not completely curbstomping them in - again, at any other point in history it would have remained obscure.

>>3726882
Yes.

OFFICIAL VIDEO GAMES POWER RANKING:

>ELDER GOD TIER:
Arcade games

>GOD TIER
Arcade style games on consoles

>GOOD TIER
Console genres with boss fights, Japanese PC

>BAD TIER
Western PC

>JOURNEY TIER
Western console games


Basically, if you prefer Western games, you're casual save scumming idiot who values immersion more than gameplay.

>>3727537
Where do games from other regions belong? E.g. Tetris.

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>>3727537
>Basically, if you prefer Western games, you're casual save scumming idiot who values immersion more than gameplay.

You're cute, Kiddo.

>>3727537
But what about western arcade games?

>>3727540
Usually "Western games" means non Japanese.

>>3727546
Every rule has an exception, also
>playing ms paint doodles makes me so hardcore

>>3727546
Most of them are low quality.

>>3727009
There's still a bit of national favoritism in Japanese gaming taste, especially if you look at the yearly "best of" lists of major Japanese publications such as Famitsu and Dengeki PS, but the stigma that western games are crappy games is pretty much irrelevant in these days when it's not uncommon to western-developed games in the best selling charts.

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>>3727560
Nah

>>3727560
>Western games" means non Japanese.
That's just stupid.

Japanese gamers used to be exposed to the good western games via localized console ports that were also produced by Japanese developers, such as Prince of Persia (the SFC, Mega CD and PCE versions were all made in Japan), Lemmings, SimCity and Populous to name a few, so they never consider those to be yoge. The actual western developed games that tended to be localized were usually crap like Sword of Sodan.

>>3727560
>Usually "Western games" means non Japanese.
They have a different term for Korean and Chinese games if I'm not mistaken.

>>3727568
>Path of Exile
>Made in New Zealand
>East of Japan
>"Western"

>>3727568
Well Japanese xenophobia is stupid in general, so that's just par for the course.

>>3727579
韓ゲー seems obvious.
中ゲー however doesn't seem to work.

>>3727536
Regarding smartphones, you're absolutely correct. Even in Japan their domestic companies can hardly compete.

I'm yet to see some definitive proof that smartphone sales do compete with handhelds though. Don't get me wrong: it's a fact they lost monopoly on handheld gaming like in the times of GBA, and the overall handheld sales fell from an all-time high set by DS. But then again, 60 million of 3DS right now is not bad given the system's quirks with 3D. And when it comes to children, a lot of people would still buy a cheap handheld to them rather than an iPhone, and I assume that's not the niche smartphones can target well.

>I've long noticed pretty much the biggest games from Japan right now are anime fighters and Souls, which in any other time in history would have been relegated to obscurity compared to other Japanese games.
1000 times this. It's ironic, Japanese are now getting their butt kicked in fighters of all things, with MKX shipping over 5 millions, while SFV can't even hit its projected 2 mln mark and is stuck on around 1.5 mln.

>>3727604
>a lot of people would still buy a cheap handheld to them rather than an iPhone,
What handheld is cheap? I'd rather buy a kid a Windows notebook.

>>3727536
>anime fighters
By anime fighters, do you mean licensed games based on properties such as DBZ and Nuruto, or stuff like Guilty Gear and KOF?

>>3727612
Not him, but I figured it was the former. Naruto and DBZ games are still big like in the times of PS1 and 2. KoF and GG never amounted to anything in US outside of their small communities.

>>3727610
> I'd rather buy a kid a Windows notebook.
Yeah, it's very convenient to play 10 year old PC games on your 2+ lbs notebook with shit specs on bus rides. At least get him a cheap tablet or something.

>>3727629
>>3727612
Actually I did in fact mean stuff like Guilty Gear and KOF! Although the other guy is right in saying Guilty Gear isn't popular in the US, it's BlazBlue that's the bigger fighter (and coincidentally the far more "anime" of the arcsys games). Also yes it's heavily ironic that the biggest fighting game series Street Fighter is doing horribly, just another sign that the big japanese companies have totally lost their touch and only smaller companies are really making any waves anymore.

>>3727647
You can also emulate and do homework.
If I want a tablet, I can just detach the keyboard.

>>3727651
KoF isn't an anime fighter though.

>>3727651
>Although the other guy is right in saying Guilty Gear isn't popular in the US, it's BlazBlue that's the bigger fighter (and coincidentally the far more "anime" of the arcsys games).
Well, it's certainly bigger than GG there, but compared to the rest of the market it's not very big at all. Calamity Trigger sold ~0.57 mln for X360/PS4 in total, Continuum Shift did ~0.44 mln. Every next release progressively less. Of course it's a surprisingly big success for a 2D fighter in the West (albeit it's in HD and all that), but it's still small and doesn't compare to any Naruto/DBZ games or Dark Souls.

So I'm a bit surprised you listed it. The only cases where Japanese still hold up sales-wise in the West is Nintendo and the old PS-era hits like MGS, FF—plus maybe occasional stuff like Bloodborne.

>>3727712
Bloodborne was pretty much another Souls game without the Souls name wasn't it? I'm pretty sure that's why people had an interest in it. But yes I didn't mean anime fighters actually made sales I just meant it was the only thing that's even relevant from Japan currently on consoles. The fact that it's still just a blip in the otherwise huge industry just means Japan's role is ever shrinking. Even MGS is a dead cow now that Kojima left and the new Final Fantasy only seems to have a passing interest (the only times I hear about it is in memes)

>>3727724
> the new Final Fantasy only seems to have a passing interest (the only times I hear about it is in memes)
ummm
>Within the first twenty-four hours, Square Enix reported that Final Fantasy XV had shipped five million units worldwide in both physical shipments and digital sales. This gave Final Fantasy XV the biggest launch in the franchise to date.
It's probably gonna be on the list of the year's biggest sellers, especially in the West. It's doing better so far than XIII.

Otherwise, you're correct—MGS is a big loss… And pretty much all that's left now for Japanese aside from Nintendo is a handful of big franchises from PS era: FF, Resident Evil, Gran Turismo, etc (I might omit a few but not deliberately). Soulcalibur bit the dust, Tekken is slowly fading to obscurity.

>>3727660
Yeah, except anything with detachable keyboard probably won't retail for $200 like a portable console or a tablet. For emulators, you can do the same on any cheap smartphone or china portable, Intel Graphics won't make any difference anyway. And I was speaking kids aged 8–14 just in case, I don't know how you expect your kid to carry a 2lbs notebook everywhere.

>>3727740
Huh, that's interesting about FF sales.

Also I wouldn't say Tekken is fading, the hype behind Tekken 7 itself is way bigger than SFV. Being the first one released on PC is probably gonna give a huge boost too. On the flipside Resident Evil has been floundering for a while and Gran Turismo has been long upstaged by (western) racers I don't think it can regain the interest it once had.

>>3727568
>>3727581
Sounds like you guys don't understand abstract concepts or commonly used phrases. And in the case you try to spew some other bullshit please name one notable African(must not be white, euro, African), South or Central American, Arab, central Asian, or Mongolian developer

>>3727748
>Yeah, except anything with detachable keyboard probably won't retail for $200 like a portable console or a tablet
You should check a shop before you make a fool out of yourself.

>>3727753
>On the flipside Resident Evil has been floundering for a while
RE7 seems to be getting a bit of hype, especially given it'll be the first VR-compatible game in the series.

>>3727748
What kind of 8 year old can't carry 2 pounds? When I was that age we had to carry ten times as much in books.

>>3727748
>I don't know how you expect your kid to carry a 2lbs notebook everywhere.

It's over.
Western civ is finished.
Every generation is stupider and weaker than the last.
JUST let the muslims sweep in and end this farce.
To think that the forebears of today's numales who can't lift 2 pounds once fought tooth and nail on the Oregon Trail to conquer the West.
Even on /vr/ people would rather their kid play Clash of Clans on a tablet than Deus Ex on a laptop.
Fuck this gay earth.

>>3727763
Well indeed, my bad, they do now. Except there's still a difference between a 10oz thing you carry in your pocket and the clunky 2lbs laptop.

>>3727806
I think Deus Ex is a bit tough for a child. ESRB has it at M and PEGI at 16.

>>3727806
Fuck, did you all misread what I said or something? I said something to carry IN YOUR POCKET, ok? I don't carry my notebook with me all the time, and I don't play games on it when on the go, because t's clunky as fuck. I was talking about portable gaming, did you not catch it in all the replies I made?

>>3727816
You should. It's really versatile.
You can even get used to using the keyboard while holding it in your hand.

>>3727753
Hard to say really. All in all, Tekken hit its all-time high with T3, with 8.5 million claimed sales worldwide. Then came T5 with 6 million overall. Then came T6 with 3.5 million. TTT2 sold 1.5 mln. I hope T7 gets popular, but it doesn't look like it's going to get much better for them. BTW, Tekken now sells like utter dogshit in Japan, against what you'd expect.

>Resident Evil has been floundering for a while
Wouldn't really say that
> By December 2014, Resident Evil 5 had sold 6.7 million copies worldwide for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360, making it the bestselling Resident Evil game and the all-time bestselling Capcom game.[62]
> Despite the slow start and mixed reviews, Resident Evil 6 became Capcom's second best-selling title by 30 September 2015, with a lifetime sales of 6.3 million copies worldwide.

> Gran Turismo has been long upstaged by (western) racers
It manages to sell like hotcakes every time though. 5 sold over 10 million, that's bigger than almost any other racing simulator in existence except for other GT games like 3 (whopping 15 mln) and 4 (11 mln). 6 got significantly lower though, but still the total worldwide physical sales were at 4.96 million mark. That's no small number, but you're right it kind of waned a little bit now. Maybe PS3 lower sales are to blame (~86 million vs PS2's 150 mln).

Is there such a thing as Japanese shovelware or is that only a western thing?
Can you give any examples?

>>3727991
No, glorious Nippon code is debugged 1000 times to perfection and there is nothing beyond it in craftsmanship.

>>3727991
Strip mahjong
Strip black jack
Strip RPS
Strip quizzes

>>3727991
Depends on what you call shovelware. But plenty anime games are just poor quality really. Then there are tons of mahjong/pachinko games, too. And of course there are tons of just mediocre games no one cares or talks about, see SNES romlist for example.

People who blame the West for muh cawadooty and muh nfl forget that soccer and less so baseball games are very big in Japan. Not to mention Koei dominated in 6th gen by making the same game over and over again.

>>3728004
>glorious Nippon code is debugged 1000 times

okay, I laughed.

>>3727991
They're called kusoge and entire books have been written about them.

>>3727991
>Is there such a thing as Japanese shovelware or is that only a western thing?
They're called visual novels and I'm not joking or being ironic when I say this is the garbage they flood their market with

>>3728426
This is true. The amount of trash and smut VNs is overwhelming.

>>3728426
>>3728437
Sturgeon's Law applies to visual novels just like everything else. Play something written by Hiroyuki Kanno, Jun Maeda, Romeo Tanaka, or Takahiro.

Or don't, I don't give a fuck what you play or what your religion says about the evils of 2D titties.

>>3727536
> the biggest games right now are anime fighters

That is not even close to true, don't know where you got that from.

>>3728503
> Or don't, I don't give a fuck what you play or what your religion says about the evils of 2D titties.
Nice strawman bro. The thing is, visual novels are a first step to dakimakura and 2chan, and I'm not sure I want to go this road. I'm quite content with my life as it is.

>>3728612
Not him but

>If I play this game, my lifestyle will change

You're one weak willed motherfucker

>>3728625
I was just kidding. Of course the lifestyle defines the games you play, not the other way round, and no game can really change it. I guess the only exception is if you get addicted as fuck to it, which with visual novels I doubt will happen.

Personally, I simply see no reason to play visual novels. I don't read much, I don't watch anime and don't play RPGs. So in general, it's no wonder I don't enjoy text-heavy Japanese media centered on plot. Like, at all. I'd much rather read a book than play them. I'd rather read Vampire Hunter D books actually, they sound like fun.

Even if they happen to be something more than eroge with text (like at least 51% text, 49% eroge), and they truly are something spectacular and better than most books, which I highly doubt, I feel a lot of the context will get lost on me if I try to play them, as I have absolutely no interest in Japanese daily life, their weird women and habits.

So something tells me people play visual novels because they want very hard to be Japanese, not because they are actually the best form of entertainment/games available.

>>3728669
>Japanese people play visual novels because they want very hard to be Japanese
OK.

The original point was about Japanese shovelware in Japan, so your argument about weebs doesn't really apply.

Which brings us to another big reason for the yoge kusoge sentiment: cultural incompatibility.

Western (mostly American) gamers are mainly looking for violent power fantasies. Those are the games that top the charts and rake in all the money.

Japanese gamers on the other hand are looking for things like emotional attachment, a return to childhood, stuff like that. That's why kawaii shit, Dragon Quest, and visual novels are popular there.

Ultimately, you play the games that tap into and satisfy your psychological needs.

>>3728669

The most popular entry-level visual novels (stuff like Fate/Stay Night, Tsukihime, Higurashi, Clannad etc) actually don't have much porn in them and don't require intimate knowledge of Japan (although they definitely do reference uniquely Japanese stuff).

The biggest real obstacle is likely to be length; visual novels can be fucking huge. IIRC, Fate/Stay Night is almost twice as long as the Lord of the Rings trilogy, and there's probably stuff out there that's a lot longer than that.

>>3727537
>western PC
>bad

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>>3728712
>Western (mostly American) gamers are mainly looking for violent power fantasies.
>Japanese gamers on the other hand are looking for things like emotional attachment, a return to childhood, stuff like that. That's why kawaii shit, Dragon Quest, and visual novels are popular there.
>Ultimately, you play the games that tap into and satisfy your psychological needs.
Nice way to read your preachings into everything, anon.

Sorry to break it to you, Japanese visual novels don't even sell that well outside of their dedicated niche of unemployed young adults. They don' top charts. Japanese like their RPGs, Monster Hunter, Dynasty Warriors, Winning Eleven and anime games more than everything else combined. Oh wow, and did you notice how about half of these are about a guy with a huge sword/mech killing everything? No? Oh well.

And what a surprise, biggest Western games are about guys with guns. Because, you know, it's our cultural weapon of choice, and teenage boys (aka the backbone of American video game market) don't quite like true nihon steel as they do like cool firearms. That said, Pokemon Sun/Moon still was the best-selling game of the year last year, like, you know, every Pokemon game that came before it. Otherwise, beside sports games, in top-50 games of the year you see Uncharted, Minecraft, Nintendo stuff, Ratchet & Clank, No Man's Sky and FFXV. As you can see, all "dreams of domination". Gotta catch them all, right?

As for kawaii stuff, it's in Japanese culture, see: Daruma, Fukusuke, Maneki-Neko, etc. No wonder they also like cute little animals, cute little girls and pillows with them. I guess that constitutes as "emotional attachment, a return to childhood", and what can be more intimate and cuter than laced female underwear?

I agree, it's all in psychology, anon. That's why you surrounded yourself with opinions which flatter your beta male ego and nicely hide that you're a weeb, showing you instead as a connoiseur of an exotic culture.

>>3728893
What was I preaching exactly? I made a value-neutral statement about general cultural priorities. Why do you need to project this made-up weeb boogeyman onto other people?

>Oh wow, and did you notice how about half of these are about a guy with a huge sword/mech killing everything? No? Oh well.
I never said there weren't exceptions and cross-over, otherwise nothing would ever get localized at all. But if you think the way violence is portrayed and approved of in Japanese and Western games is equivalent, I can't take your opinion seriously.

Visual novels haven't topped any bestsellers lists in Japan in over a decade, but they're still a staple genre, and visual novel-style gameplay appears in many other types of games (see: Falcom RPGs, Persona series, Last Escape, etc.)

The rest of your post is basically you agreeing with what I said.

>That's why you surrounded yourself with opinions which flatter your beta male ego and nicely hide that you're a weeb, showing you instead as a connoiseur of an exotic culture.
Top kek kid. I don't watch anime, I don't own any dakimakura or figures. I have a wife, not a waifu. I am fluent in Japanese because of how and where I grew up. Japan is not exotic to me.

>>3728669
Something tells me people use 4chan because they want very hard to be Japanese, not because it's actually the best form of entertainment/discussion platform available.

>>3727560
>Most of them are low quality.
you don't know shit about arcade games you hipster fag

>>3728669
>So something tells me people play visual novels because they want very hard to be Japanese
i always thought it was because they're losers but to each his own

>>3728893
>No Man's Sky was a top seller last year
More proof videogames have gone to shit.

>>3729019
4chan surpassed its Japanese origins though, just like the videogame industry.

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>>3728503
>Or don't, I don't give a fuck what you play or what your religion says about the evils of 2D titties.
Ahahaha get offended more you histrionic nerd, visuals novels are fucking shit mass produced garbage for the otaku masses. Go find Jesus and stop being a fucking loser

>>3728997
>Why do you need to project this made-up weeb boogeyman onto other people?
>If I pretend it doesn't exist they can't label me with it

>>3729356
Video games are American in origin though, both consoles, arcades and PC games had their start in America

>>3729363
>Video games are American in origin though, both consoles, arcades and PC games had their start in America
This claim is true, but inventors don't have monopoly on their inventions. If you meant "video games belong to America", it's just as valid as Britain's claim they "own" US, Canada, Australia and so on.

>>3728997
>What was I preaching exactly?
Your post boils down to "Japan is good and US is bad because psychology". You pulled out of your ass that "Japan is about childhood and attachment" and "US is all violent power fantasies", made an excuse for it with made-up, overblown and incorrect evidence, then ultimately finished with a whole sermon preaching that "you play the games that tap into and satisfy your psychological needs".

I guess your moral was: "we all seek attachement in our lives, so play superior visual novels instead of your violent money-grab shit". Which fits the definition of "preaching" and "projecting".

> I never said there weren't exceptions and cross-over, otherwise nothing would ever get localized at all.
Oh, I see! Not all hope is lost! The West still can be saved with Japanese attachment and childhood fantasies! They just need to open up and accept visual novels and DQ as their salvation. Preach, brother.

> Visual novels haven't topped any bestsellers lists in Japan in over a decade, but they're still a staple genre
Mahjong and pachinko are staple genres too. Why? Maybe because they're piss easy to make and market.
>and visual novel-style gameplay appears in many other types of games
Any RPG with branched dialogues can be considered a visual novel then. These mechanics appeared in RPGs even before NES, believe it or not.

> The rest of your post is basically you agreeing with what I said.
I'm starting to have doubts about your reading comprehension.

> Top kek kid. I don't watch anime, I don't own any dakimakura or figures. I have a wife, not a waifu. I am fluent in Japanese because of how and where I grew up. Japan is not exotic to me.
Oh, so you've, like, transcended weebs. You're above peasant shit like anime, you got in touch with holy island of Nihon, and you've almost turned 1/4 Japanese now. Things are getting serious, I see. Well, more superior visual novels to you.

>>3729624
>Any RPG with branched dialogues can be considered a visual novel then. These mechanics appeared in RPGs even before NES, believe it or not.
Name some RPG from before 83 with branching dialog.
I'm interested.

>>3729625
He might be talking of tabletop games.

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>>3729624
The irony is you're getting really violent at someone suggesting Americans are all about violence.

Of course different cultures are going to have different approaches to what makes a compelling game, the same as they have different approaches to what makes a compelling story as in a book or movie. And certainly people may prefer one over the other. But trying to say something as broad as all Japanese games are good and Western games are bad or the opposite is just short sighted. It's like saying all old games are good and new games are bad.

If you're someone who likes games you will find games from all regions and eras that do interesting things or are fun and worth playing. To limit one's self would be silly.

>>3729636
Violent and sarcastic are two different things. BTW, I've heard Japanese don't understand sarcasm. I'm concerned about that anon, will his driving skills deteriorate too?

>>3729624

I'm not the person you're responding to, but Christ, you're being pissy.

>Your post boils down to "Japan is good and US is bad because psychology". You pulled out of your ass that "Japan is about childhood and attachment" and "US is all violent power fantasies", made an excuse for it with made-up, overblown and incorrect evidence, then ultimately finished with a whole sermon preaching that "you play the games that tap into and satisfy your psychological needs".

>I guess your moral was: "we all seek attachement in our lives, so play superior visual novels instead of your violent money-grab shit". Which fits the definition of "preaching" and "projecting".

Bullshit. Those were all value neutral statements. Maybe they weren't completely accurate, but nothing besides your own pissiness about weebs could have led you to believe he was saying Japan is good and America bad.

>Oh, I see! Not all hope is lost! The West still can be saved with Japanese attachment and childhood fantasies! They just need to open up and accept visual novels and DQ as their salvation. Preach, brother.

As above, no one made a value judgement about which is better or worse. You're reading things into what people say that just aren't there.

>Oh, so you've, like, transcended weebs. You're above peasant shit like anime, you got in touch with holy island of Nihon, and you've almost turned 1/4 Japanese now. Things are getting serious, I see. Well, more superior visual novels to you.

Fuck's sake. He might have been raised by Jap parents. He might have lived in an area with a lot of Jap immigrants. He might have even been raised in Japan. More assumptions and projection.

It sounds like you have some image in your head about some stereotypical weeb you read about on /b/ or /v/, and now you're so pissed about it that you're projecting it onto anyone who says anything vaguely positive or even neutral about anything Japanese. The only weeb here is the one that exists in your imagination.

Dipshits using weeb as an insult on 4chan always amuses me.

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>>3729624
I haven't seen an utter destruction like this in a while


>>3729653
Dipshits being weebs in 2017 amuses me more

>>3729660
It's funny either way I suppose.

>>3729660
Don't interfere with the fist fight.

>>3729625
I'm sorry I can't give concrete examples as I'm no expert, but as the other anon said, I know it has been around in tabletop RPGs since forever. And since Ultima and other games basically started as PC versions of tabletop games, I'm certain you will find plenty examples if you know where to search. It's just that today only the older people who had computers back in the early '80s will remember them.

In any case, heck, "interactive fiction" was one of the earliest video game genres, and you could type in pretty much any text command in them (well, any one recognized by the word processor). You had multiple choices all the time, often in dialogues too. Of course they weren't just menus with options, you had to type them down, but the general structure was the same. Of course they weren't about seducing fair young maidens, but still VNs heavily resemble these old games. They are as basic as it gets.

For solid examples, it's after 1983, but I know for sure that Ultima IV had plenty of dialogue choices, which also influenced your moral alignment and so on. Not sure about the earlier games though. Except Ultima IV was also an RPG with battle system and so on.

>>3729692
>I'm sorry I can't give concrete examples as I'm no expert
> I'm certain you will find plenty examples if you know where to search.

lol this place is funny sometimes.

>>3729692
Ultima 4 didn't really have branching dialogs. It was mainly keyword-> reply.
At most you got a yes/no decision that led to another reply before getting back to the keyword prompt.
From my experience adventures and RPGs were pretty distinct in the 80s until games like Quest for Glory and Wasteland.

You had interactive stories with stats in book form like the Fighting Fantasy or Lone Wolf series but they were only adapted to video game format at a later point.

>>3729692
Eh, I had a computer in the early 80s and I can't think of anything that really compares to a visual novel.

Text adventures like Colossal Cave Adventure and Zork (that high falutin' "interactive fiction" stuff didn't appear until later) were basically puzzle games. You've got to find the sword, to cut the rope, to climb the cliff, to reach the ruby, and so on. There were hardly any deep, involving stories with fleshed-out characters. Although Mindshadow was pretty dope with the amnesiac main character, and you had to gradually use the REMEMBER .... command over the course of the game to reveal the backstory.

Ultima IV had dialogue choices? fffffffffffffff. NAME. JOB. BYE. is not a deep dialogue system. Bad example.

The earliest PC game I can think of that had an actual dialogue tree was Monkey Island. The earliest PC game I can think of that did branching dialogue really well was the first Fallout.

Considering that visual novels had their roots in the eroge of the mid- to late-80s and the Chunsoft sound novels on the SNES, I'd say the development is more or less contemporaneous.

>>3729719
We could consider Rance 1 from 1989.
It's Japanese, eroge, RPG, adventure and has optional routes.

>>3728712
>emotional attachment, a return to childhood
The non-value-neutral term for this is infantilization, and it's arguably a big problem for Japanese culture as a whole.

>>3729624
>AMERICANS DON'T HAVE VIOLENT TENDENCIES YOU WEEB FAGGOT FUCK OFF AND DIE GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Go play some Clannad and chill the fuck out dude. That shit is comfy.

>>3729651
You see, I agree he never said anything directly negative/positive about US or Japan. But he winked and nudged so hard that frankly, I got sick of it. Using obviously negative connotations like "violent power fantasies", and obviously positive ones like "emotional attachment, a return to childhood", is NOT neutral, believe it or not. It is highly biased.

But even then, extrapolating a psychological trait on a whole nation just can't be objective. It's too complex of a subject, it's 300 million different people with their individual minds—did you read all of them? It's hard to even make a serious claim like this—let alone use it as an argument.

Believe it or not, I was only kidding when I compared him to a weeb. What I wanted to point out was his poorly veiled bias when he talked about his perceived cultural traits—these were not "value neutral statements", quite contrary to what you say. And then he obviously implied the only logical conclusion: that since one is all positive and the other is all negative, Japanese culture is morally superior.

His thinly veiled bias towards visual novels also shows quite a bit. But that was beside his main bias. That's all I wanted to show really, and ridicule him for poor arguments.

>>3729732
>Clannad
Nigga that's gay shit, play some Saya no Uta instead.

>>3729739
That dweeb is right, Americans are psychopaths nutcases with violent tendencies.

File: 8dd3150be08299a96160b8cd77ccad387eee363ae863f9ec89a26e19a218da49_1.jpg (78KB, 702x414px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 702x414px

>>3729745
And Japan is a nation of losers fetishized by other losers.

>>3729706
I don't argue about that. Well, maybe I was wrong after all, and before 1983 there weren't any VIDEO games with branching dialogues. Then I'm sorry for false claim, but I never really based a whole argument on it. Probably you should listen to >>3729719 instead of me.

>>3729719
Well thanks for your input. I'm sorry, looks like I was wrong.

> Ultima IV had dialogue choices? fffffffffffffff. NAME. JOB. BYE. is not a deep dialogue system. Bad example.
Well, I'm reading that
> Players are equally able to lower their virtue by their in-game actions, such as stealing crops for food (lowering honesty) or selecting a bragging response in a dialogue with certain characters (lowers humility).

>>3729758
It was more the whole "I'm going to make some declarative statements on a subject I know nothing about" that amused me.

>>3729741
>>3729732
> ebonics
Opinion discarded

>>3729761
Well, yeah. It's that bold generalization, a claim that he knows Americans and Japanese throughout, that made me question his response the most. It'd be alright if this thread was a pointless flamewar about international cultures. But it was supposed to be about video games.

>>3729758
I don't see how you can steal crops for food.
You can steal treasure that doesn't belong to you. Crops were only implemented in V which didn't have the same virtue system.

Here:s an example for a dialog tree:
LIEG: I serve Lord British!
Art thou the most valiant warrior?
Yes: Then thou should be a guard!
No: Still flee not from battle!

File: Muslim Kombat.jpg (102KB, 500x582px) Image search: [Google]

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It's weird going back and realizing how terrible western games really were, like in the arcade and stuff.

In the 80's and 90's, western arcade games just became scams to get money out of you. Completely bullshit bosses? Welcome to Mortal Kombat.
Want to pay multiple times to play a full match of basketball? Welcome to NBA Jam.

Japanese games are purer. They are challenging, yes, but not impossible.

It's like they were made by people who enjoy video games and not people who are just looking to make money. You'll see that in arcade flyers as well. They are all about "How much money you can make"

>>3731461
While a lot of blame can be laid at the developers' feet for this, the arcade owners also bear some responsibility for not understanding the dip switches for lowering difficulty/buy-ins/etc.

Maybe they were more complex in the 80s and 90s, but I don't think it would have killed them to trim the difficulty from ULTRA RECURRING PREDICTIVE NIGHTMARE to normal, or getting someone to buy in for a quarter rather than a dollar each time.

>>3727815
>giving a flying fuck about ratings
t. soccer mom