Why was Doom "The One" and not Wolfenstein 3D?

back then they were usually mentioned together.

>>3693710
Doom was a better game overall.

Because Doom had all the word of mouth buzz. It was a time when videogames had blood removed from them before being published because of fear of public outcry, and Doom had full on demons with an aesthetic of blood and guts.

>>3693710

Wolf had bad level design.
It didn't have a classic soundtrack either.

>In this game you kill Nazis and Hitler
Done before, even then you had Captain America.

>In this game you're on Mars and demons have taken over everything in space. Blood everywhere.
Now we're getting somewhere!

Also Doom has points for modding. It was only just recently that we got a good source port for Wolfenstein, and Doom's got over 20 years history of WADs and the like.

Wolfenstein was to Doom what Super Mario Bros was to SMB3.

>>3693710
Wolfenstein 3D was pretty damn popular. But you look at it and a normal person still goes "eh," it looks kind of cartoony and fake. Doom was such a huge leap technologically that a regular person was much more likely to look at it and say "wow." It was like peering into a little 3D virtual world. I remember looking at screenshots in a 1993 issue of Game Players and thinking it looked insanely realistic. Doom pushed the technology over the edge to the point where even a casual passer-by in a computer store would stop and watch someone play.

>>3693748
What about Ultima Underworld?

Network play was a big part of Doom's popularity in the 90's.

Doom took what Wolf3D begun and made it better, better level design and geometry, more weapons, interesting enemies, and one of the other big kickers, Netplay which took off Deathmatching and CoOp

>>3693710
wolf 3d had extremely shallow gameplay. every enemy was the same except for their health. every level was the same. doom brought variety into the mix and turned fps into a viable genre

>>3693838
>>3693838
>every enemy was the same except for their health
Not really
>Dogs
>That doctor boss and the Fake Hitlers shoot projectiles
>And then different rates of hitscan
Not much, but still.

>>3693710
Have you even played the two games?
It becomes very apparent if you compare even just the first two levels.

>>3693736
Yeah but SMB was signifigantly more influential than SMB3.

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Funny how people remember wolf 3d but not its prequel spear of destiny or spears expansion packs

They were decent though spears expansions changed weapons sprites to ass.

>>3693729
Uuuh
>not loving those early dos sounds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usidnQcehnQ&index=9&list=PL8519820291D72B04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1hiFwzWxXs&index=11&list=PL8519820291D72B04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3w-bE7LHZs&list=PL8519820291D72B04&index=14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RiXRd0GFuk&list=PL8519820291D72B04&index=17


And as a bonus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DucW9Vn6fC4&index=2&list=PL2C9A1159A4B6DFE6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF6JrMeG_GQ&index=5&list=PL2C9A1159A4B6DFE6

>>3693894
>>not loving those early dos sounds
Sierra Adlib stuff is pretty good, those are meh though.

>>3693905
Im probably just nostalgic then.

And because the duke nukem one sounds like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EztbyhAJNtk

The vastly superior engine

wolf was flat
doom added verticality, that made level way more believable and life-like (even though overlap wasn't possible).

Also, cyberdemon.

>>3693920
bobby prince is a known metal ripper. He also was a lawyer so he knew exactly how and how much he could rip.
That doesn't make his work any less enjoyable, I still get pumped when I hear Doom 2 E1M1.

In Russia it is (was) popular than Doom.

>>3693710
>Why was Doom "The One" and not Wolfenstein 3D?

Doom introduced deathmatch.

>>3694025
also, very easy modding, exploding barrels, uneven ground (made it look so much more realistic), monster infighting, and a much higher variety of weapons and monsters.

>>3693894
Spear of Destiny is great. Much better level design than the original and has one hell of a finale. Wolf3D has hit-or-miss level design (the only episodes which I would consider as good are the third and fifth ones) but SoD is great throughout. I like it more than Doom and Doom II.

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>>3693723
>>3694025
>>3694027
>I wasn't alive back then
>but reading Wikipedia will fool them!

>>3693710
Wolfenstein 3D was HUGE in its day.

>>3693894
I remember Spear of Destiny. I prefered Wolf3D engine a bit more back then because it ran smooth on a 286. Doom required a 386, and only ran well with a 486.

More funny how no one remembers Catacomb 3D which was the Wolf3D engine before Wolf3D came out. It was a EGA graphics game, and was FPS using magic before Heretic and Hexen.

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Wolfie was fun and revolutionized the genre (itself hardly even the first FPS) but Doom was the evolution of the genre. Polished to a mirror shine, it was an amazing game that didn't rely on on gimmicks.

Quake then tried to polish it further but you'll get mixed opinions over if they actually succeeded.

Wolfenstein 3D had a plethora of clones, still had even after Doom came out.

Doombabies can't into FPS history.

>Not Blake Stone

>>3693729
You want to blame the mappers? It had scant room for differentiating levels!!

>>3693736
>>3693894
Nobody's even heard of spear of destiny, just like people didn't know SMB2j! How would Doom All Stars be made? Throwing in RotT? Mario World is essentially a refreshed toss up of Mario 3, so that's comparable to Doom 2...

>>3693756
Not an action game. Non action games are disadvantaged.

>>3693871
Wolf3d was not a pack in. Try and compare Megarace and 7th guest to sega CD games or whatnot.

>>3695416
>Not an action game. Non action games are disadvantaged.
How is it not an action game?

>>3693710
Blake Stone was better.

>>3695423
He's retarded and probably hasn't even played it.

The Satanic hellish aesthetic appealed more to the neck beards of the day.

>>3694014
Flat and square!

>>3694159
Quake was noticeably tarnished by resolution limitations. It could be nudged up to 360x240 to loosen that choke on it, slightly. or if you had a beast of a machine, you could crank it to 360x350 or 360x400. Of course, there was GLQuake, but back then that was rough around the edges.

More importantly, by that time it had tons of competitors, such as Future Shock which also pulled off the full 3d thing.

>>3694163
Corridor 7 a shit! Quiver another shit! Terminator rampage ... still rather meh.

>>3695423
It's an RPG, ie. complicated or drudgerous to to unpopular degrees, even simulators have popularity limitations of that sort. The only thing that could really evade that issue was some adventure games.

>>3693710
Wolf3D is fun in it's own rights, but I think Doom is more fun, if only for the more detailed maps (height, more textures, non-right angles)

As for the porting craze, Wolf3D either winds up being the precursor to porting Doom to that particular device, or what you wind up porting when the device isn't strong enough to run Doom.

Doom kinda hits that sweet spot between too simple and too demanding on hardware, so it's a fun challenge to port it.
http://hackaday.com/2009/10/06/doom-on-a-picture-key-chain/

>>3695446
It's an action RPG.
Many popular series nowadays are action RPGs.

>>3695460
But those tend to emphasize the action side. In fact when they tried to sell System Shock 1 as an action RPG, the RPG side was seen as so weak as to not count. Same thing for Strife.

Wolf3d:
- less immersive
- more confusing and repetitive maps
- walls only at 90 degree angles
- flat levels (Doom faked vertical differences brilliantly)
- lack of texture variety (possibly due to just plain memory limitations)
- no floor or ceiling textures
- no lighting (big thing, this one)
- inferior music and sound ambience

It was almost there. but not quite. It just needed a small bump in quality and off you go. It really does come down to small improvements and changes.
They knew they had a good base to build on, and made it great.

>>3693756
Ultima Underworld has some neat features that Doom doesn't have (the slopes, mostly), but it's a lot uglier and ran a lot worse on hardware at the time. Plus it just wasn't as popular because it's not an action game as anon said:
>>3695416

>>3695637
>not an action game
since people are apparently arguing about this in this thread, let me correct this to: Ultima Underworld is not a fast-paced action game. poking around dim tunnels, picking up items and managing inventory, and talking to lizardmen just isn't going to have to same impact to Joe Average.

Why not Corridor 17?

>>3695446
>if you had a beast of a machine, you could crank it to 360x350 or 360x400
I had an average computer back in the day when quake came out and It ran fine on any resolution.

>>3695460
>>3695508
>>3695637
>>3695641
I honestly hate the term Action RPG. Its main reason for existing was as a way to describe an RPG that isn't turn-based. But the problem with that is that the Action genre itself exists, and is more defined as emphasizing physical challenge gameplay, either through combat or obstacles. While some do indeed fit that defition, theres also plenty of "Action" RPGs that do not, and would more better fit the Adventure genre's definition of involving exploration and puzzle solving.

>>3695641
>>3695637
Kids these days prefer immersive story based games over fast paced action.
Maybe it was just too ahead of its time.

literally the engine, why have so few of you mentioned this?

Wolf3D - square rooms, no height variation, all enemies behave the same

Doom - varied levels, verticality, loads of different enemy behavior

i mean, fucking, duh

>>3693710
because edgy teenagers

/thread

>>3695992
Wouldn't a game where you kill Nazis and dogs be more akin to edgy teenagers?

>>3696616
No, edgy teenagers actually think Hitler was right all along, so they would rather fight for the Nazis, mowing down jews with machineguns and flamethrowers.

>>3695656
And when was that? Did you use 3D acceleration?

Even a Pentium at 200Mhz struggled (=fps below 60) at anything above 320x200 in Quake when rendering in software mode.

>>3695932
Yeah, Ultima Underworld is like 75% first-person adventure game and 25% real-time combat/platforming with stats.

People generally spend too much time trying to come up with a a precise two-word label and then arguing about genre terms instead of thinking about the mechanics of how the game plays.

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>>3695656
>I had an average computer back in the day when quake came out and It ran fine on any resolution.
what's your definition of running "fine"

an "average" computer in 1996 was a pentium 90

>>3693871
And better overall

>>3696701
This has to be horse shit, I first played Quake on a P100 and it ran perfectly fine in 320x200, with sound, in 16-player deathmatch.

Doom is the one because it is so much fun, I'd say it's no more of a breakthrough in fps design than Quake or Half-Life.

The difference is that Doom is insanely fucking fun and remains so today.

>>3696718
>This has to be horse shit,
It isn't. It's from a credible benchmarking website.

http://thandor.net/benchmark/33

>I first played Quake on a P100 and it ran perfectly fine in 320x200, with sound, in 16-player deathmatch.
Probably because your definition of perfectly fine in the 90s was 20 fps. But don't worry, we were all there with you on that for a time.

Because Neo is "The One"

>>3696728
>Probably because your definition of perfectly fine in the 90s was 20 fps.

It was in the early 00s, and I could perfectly tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps back then.

The game ran silky smooth and only slowed down if I bumped up the resolution. On the Celerons in the other computer room (I don't remember their exact speeds, but somewhere between 300-400), it also ran perfect in at least 640x480. Maybe even in higher, but the GUI was too small in those modes so I never used it.

>>3695980
>>3695980
>>3695980
fucking this
one game doesn't even have stairs

>>3696664
Pentium 200 could do 360x240 just fine, saying it struggled is absurd.
>>3695642
Wolf3d engine. Also...
>Corridor 7 a shit!
>>3695635
>- no lighting (big thing, this one)
Good point. And so there wasn't much room for the mapper(s) to play around.

>>3696616
Doom as hell of a lot more controversial.
Wolfenstein stirred shit mostly in Germany as far as I remember.

>>3693710
Because DOOM was a better game in every way.

>>3696874
>On the Celerons in the other computer room (I don't remember their exact speeds, but somewhere between 300-400), it also ran perfect in at least 640x480. Maybe even in higher, but the GUI was too small in those modes so I never used it.

A 400mhz Celeron is SHITLOADS faster than a Pentium 100. Even the earliest Celeron is based on a Pentium II technology and started at 300mhz.

Your posts indicated that your recollection of the past is likely fucked up.

>>3697981
good ole celeron 300A that, thanks to their integrated cache, could OC like crazy.

The backgrounds and windows made it look really special

>>3693710
I think the main difference between doom and wolfenstien 3d was that doom was fun.

>>3694073
God damn you're fucking dumb.

>>3695992
Doom was normalfag as fuck back then you complete trash.

>>3694073
This.

>>3693710
Wolfenstein's a bit plain, really. The action is just so much more refined in Doom, and what's more it's a lot edgier and in-your-face than Wolfenstein. Yes, I know that seems like a farcical statement when Wolfenstein literally lets you kill Mecha-Hitler, but Doom is the pinnacle of '90s edge. A psychotic space marine with an arsenal the size of a small army obliterating demons from hell while plagiarised metal songs play in the background. There's a reason why they, at one point, attempted to pin Columbine on Doom.

Once again, everyone misses the real reason. Doom was more popular because it has vastly more engaging gameplay, and a major reason for this is that Wolf3D enemies ALL used hitscan type attacks which make fire-fights very boring while Doom had a few hitscan enemies but most shot real, dodgable missiles.

>>3695635
exactly. wolfenstein was pretty good, but it was rudimentary. Doom really established what you could do with an FPS.

>>3698343
Why are you talking shit about a game you clearly haven't played?

Wolfenstein 3D had many enemies with dodgable missiles:
>Fake Hitlers
>Doctor Schabbs
>Otto Giftmacher
>General Fettgesicht
Spear of Destiny also had:
>Barnacle Wilhelm
>Death Knight
>Angel of Death
>Professor Quarkblitz
>Robot
>Devil Incarnate

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>>3695642
The only way I can see Corridor 7 being interesting is as a game for Raspberry pi:
>>3698662
...particularly with portrait mode split screen play. Which of course would also work for Doom, hell, Doom Legacy had done splitscreen ages ago!

All comes down to feel.

Doom feels better to play. The weapon feedback. The way shit died. Just feels more impactful and real. Wolf is a great game, but Doom is the one people will always come back to even when they've beat it 100 times.

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The coherently broad answer would be that, because Id were working with such a cutting edge engine, they had solid reason to make lots of other aspects of the game greatly refined.

Compare that to what 3d realms did after duke3d, using an old engine that they didn't quite own, and then licensing an common engine, and at the same time having the weird portal based engine not quite working out, and they just spectacularly failed to get their shit together.

Height/Light variation and Texture variety.

>>3693710
Because Doom had a short straight to the point catchy name. Wolfenstein 3D is too much of a mouthful

>>3693780
no it wasn't

>>3699083
Doom II it was. DWANGO was fucking huge back in the day. They couldn't set up enough servers for it.

>>3696718
>in 16-player deathmatch.
This is how we can prove that your memory is inaccurate. That is not possible in vanilla Quake 1.

Also, standards were lower then. 20fps WAS fine for Quake as difficult as that is to accept nowadays.

>>3699065
to be fair "3D" was a huge selling point back then.

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>>3699249
I remember playing Quake after taking five days to download the demo. The blood pixels would remain in the air long after the monsters had died.

>>3698286
Wasn't eric harris a huge fan of doom?

>>3699476
>Wasn't eric harris a huge fan of doom?
Both him and Klebold were, yeah, which was why Doom acted as an easy scapegoat for the media. Goes to show just how much influence and impact Doom had as a game, hence how it continued to be a scapegoat six years after its release.

>>3699559
>be huge fan of sailor moon - fuwa fuwa panic
>shoot up school
>???
>Profit!

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the ubiquity of Doom's shareware version.I remember when I was young everyone that owned a computer also owned Doom's shareware since it was free, easy to obtain and ran on most everything.

>>3700670
>be huge fan of weeb games
>grow up to be gay

>>3700685
Yeah, Doom shareware was installed on more PCs than Windows was.

>>3694073
> gets answers
>"pfff...naw that can't be it"

the real answer is that you're retarded and your parents kept it a secret from you.

of course i found out because i was plowing your mom last night and she told me

>>3694073
mid 90s gaming mags actually.

I remember there were big arguments between item respawn and nospawn. One made it possible for a weaker player to wear down the other eventually once he runs out of items and health, while the other was considered better because it forces players to "patrol" constantly for the respawning health ups, increasing the pace of a match.

>>3698736

More photos like this?

cause it was too blocky.

>>3699476
Everyone was it was the nineties.

>>3698286
>There's a reason why they, at one point, attempted to pin Columbine on Doom
They wanted a scapegoat for the pharmaceutical industry, probably.

Psychiatric medicine is a huge industry, and the fact that nearly 100% of spree killers are on some type of medication is one of Big Pharma's best-kept secrets.

>>3694073
Just look at any random screenshot from both games, and it should be immediately obvious why Doom is more well-remembered.

>Doom level design
>elevated floors, bridges over acid moats, stairs, crushing ceilings, trapdoors activated by crossing a linedef, teleporters, a diverse roster of enemies

>Wolfenstein level design
>Nazis and doors

>>3698736
so comfy

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>>3693710

In 1991 when Wolf was launched, very few people had a computer at home, and most computers at office were 286 with CGA screens (4 colors). The happy fews had a 486 or 386 at home, and those ones loved Wolf3D and for them Wolf3d is THE game.

>>Then, come the Pentium/Win 95 era, with the massive Intel/Microsoft campaign. A lot of people started to buy computers, and companies renew their computers.

The most populat shareware to show how powerful was the pentium was DOOM (the very long time it took to load the wad varied a lot from a computer to another).

So, the vast majority of people get access to computer only once Doom was already released, making Wolf 3D looks crappy.

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>>3702742

>>3696718
It's not. That benchmark is accurate. I played it on a P100 as well and it ran like dogshit like it suggests. It's why I didn't get into quake 1 until much later since I played Duke 3D since that would get over 60fps at 800x600 and 1024x768 over the internet basically all the time even rather than 15-20 at 320x200 depending on scene.

>>3696979
There's already a benchmark posted below that with the P200. 41 FPS is struggling especially when you consider there's going to be faster parts and slower parts to the benchmark. You could play it, but it's not going to be smooth.

>>3699249
>This is how we can prove that your memory is inaccurate. That is not possible in vanilla Quake 1.
Yes it is. Both in Netquake and Quakeworld. In Netquake it would say only 4 in the menu and it would cap the maxplayers cvar but if you launched it with "-listen 16" the cvar would be set to 16. You can try it with vanilla Quake in dosbox right now. I just personally re-verified that it did do that with 1.08. Should also work with 1.06.
Quakeworld definitely allowed a server to be set up with more than 16 players even but you'd have to have been retarded to do that without custom maps and beefier connections than in 1996. It wasn't uncommon for people to play vanilla Quakeworld on servers hosting as much or more after 1999. Though sourceports are where it's at now - you know, if it weren't dead that is.

>>3693710
I prefered Duke Nukem 3D myself, mainly because you could jump/fly and aim.

>>3694183
THIS

>>3704857
Just for reference, the Power Mac G4 was so powerful when it launched that it had to be classified as a super computer for customs / international shipping.

>>3707982
cool story bro

>>3708015
Just thought I'd share it for any younger /vr/ers whose only exposure to Apple would have been post iPhone. I think it's an interesting anecdote.

>>3706972
Above 30fps is not struggling. 320x200 looked pretty bad. 360x240 is not hugely more demanding, though it did look appreciably nicer. We were accustomed to far greater choppiness from FPSes on 486-66es or especially 486-33s. But 320x200 was getting old, and being replaced, since some other games supported 320x400 and such, leaving quake at 320x200 gave you glaring pixelyness.

Of course, you did need 512x384 to not have everything pixelated, but every bit helped.

You know what I don't like about Wolfenstein? you have to shoot alive dogs.

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First played doom when it came out I must have been 10/11. I noticed a fair buzz about it within people in my age group, why? look at the fuckin cover art

>>3693710
We shouldn't have to explain this to you
Now duke nukem vs doom...