What are some retro JRPGs that don't require excessive grinding?

>>3692647
Final Fantasy 8

>>3692647
Any game from 4th gen or later.

Define "grinding".

Grinding is fighting the same enemies over and over in the same place to reach a certain amount of level or loot.

High random encounters =/= grinding.

>>3692654
>Grinding is fighting the same enemies over and over in the same place to reach a certain amount of level or loot.
Yes, that's what I mean. Games where that's not something you need to do excessively to beat them.

>>3692647
Super Mario RPG

Which are some JRPGs that do require excessive grinding?
I never understood people complaining about it, there are very few games I can think that require lots of grinding, Digimon World series being one of them.

Name some popular titles that require grinding.

>>3692682

I really can't think of any.

The only time I did grind was on Dragon Quest III, but that's because I wanted a Sage, and you need to get your goof to level 20, and then once he/she becomes a Sage goes back to level 1 (which happens with any class if you change them), but it's not really necessary to beat the game.

Stuff like, for example, Mother 1, which is commonly said to be "grindy" has no grind at all, you can finish the game below level 30.

>>3692691
The Dragon Quest series diminishes the grind a LOT with each installment, but to be honest DQ1 is basically Grind Simulator: The Game.

I never grinded so much in my life, there's no bosses (outside the Dragon, Golem and Dracolord, I think?), the dungeons ends in a quite abrupt way, because of that the game feels like you're just grinding so you can grind more in another place, sometimes the difference in enemies strenght is so high between a few blocks in the overworld, that you wonder if you missed some secret item or event in another place, but no, you just need to grind a hell lot more.

Still had fun with it somehow, grind never was a dealbreaker for me, I think people fuss too much about it.

>>3692682
Early SMT has you hunting a lot of mag, which is used to summon and maintain demons.

Thank fuck they got rid of that.

Xanadu limits enemy respawning so you can't grind even if you wanted to.

>>3692682

Phantasy Star II without a map.

>>3692751

Phantasy Star 2 with a map.

The best part of any JRPG is comfy effecient grinding at the end for optional superbosses and post game content.

>>3692647
If you need to grind you're doing it wrong. Think of a better strategy instead of mindlessly fighting for experience. I'll admit there are exceptions but most JRPGs aren't that hard.

>>3692742
In Digital Devil Story 1 and 2, Magnetite stops being a problem in the second half of the game, since you just lose 1 HP per step and your Max HP is much higher, it's more easy to just take the damage and heal it after some time.

However, the famicom version of 1 still is the most annoying experience that I ever had with a game in my entire life, like holy shit, it's so hard to discover what to do, it's so hard to navigate in the maps with only this little mini-map, the layouts are crazy and twisted with so many traps, and I mean TRAPS, not traps, the jump in difficulty is enormous between Valhalla and Mazurka corridor, I played it for hours, for days, and felt like I was going nowhere, it was truly hopeless, the random enemies are so fucking constant and strong, while the map is so vast, you could be abushed randomly and just get Yumiko paralyzed in the middle of a dungeon, BAM! You now can't heal or even flee with the emergency warp, if you made progress you're most likely dead and back to the title screen again, the late fusions are also super especific to get, and don't even get me started with the Hellfire labyrinth or Izanami, it's pure PTSD. Digital Devil Story 2 for famicom is so much better in all regards, the cities and top-down view outside of dungeons makes exploration more intuitive instead of finding random rooms in a dungeon out of nowhere, you can also heal using demons in the overworld instead of only in-battle, ah, such a good game in comparasion.

Sorry about all this text.

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>>3692682

>>3692682
Dragon Warrior for NES.

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>>3692682
maybe not lots, but some old RPG like throw you into the world with a single level 1 character, without decent equipment or gold - like Phantasy Star 1. After about 40 minutes of killing things there's no more need for that though.

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>>3692732
There's the armored knight guarding Roto's armor.
I beat the Famicom version and you really don't have much to do aside from grinding.

>>3692647
The big ones are going to be

>Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
>Paper Mario
>Chrono Trigger

These worked because they had really good pacing and a great EXP curve.

>Final Fantasy 8
This one worked because Junction actually has a greater effect the lower level you are, you gain more benefit from it at the lowest levels.

You can make a very strong argument taht FF8 has a different kind of grinding, so it's still grinding.

>>3692649
This was going to be my suggestion also.
Everything scales.

>>3692682
Fucking Mother 1.

>>3692647
Basically any FF but 1, and even then I wouldn't call FF1's grinding excessive.

Chrono Cross. You only level up after boss fights, and there's no such thing as EXP. It makes for absolutely controlled balance which means you can play at any pace you want, but that also means that you're stuck with one set difficulty for every single part of the game, which means really easy for most of it and ridiculously ass-rapey in one or two spots.

However, chances are you won't like the game.

panzer dragoon saga

>>3692759
Anon was making a joke that Phantasy Star II's dungeons are confusing as shit without a map and that you'll naturally level trying to find your way around.

PSII with a map can be pretty grindy, since you know where to go and don't get lost.

>>3692792
I feel your pain anon

>>3692647
final fantasy 8
lunar silver star story complete
suikoden 1 or 2

>>3692682
phantasy star 1
dragon warrior 1-3 on nes
ff12 if you want to 100% complete

>>3692647
Legend of Dragoon. You can grind, but it's not fruitful at all outside of you needing gold or finishing up shit Additions. It's set up with enemies giving you shit everything but bossess are loot/gold hoarders.

>>3692682
Few hours of grinding each area in DQ with music/podcast in the background is always fun

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>>3692864

Okay, so in my mind, there are two kinds of 'grindy' JRPGs. The first have huge jumps in difficulty between areas and pretty much require you to grind by walking around the same spot over and over looking for random encounters so you can level up and/or buy better gear before moving to the next area.

The second have ridiculously high encounter rates and all but require you to keep a well maintained stock of recovery items or make constant trips out of dungeons to rest at an inn for mp before continuing in order to build your exp and gold to an appropriate level to continue exploring the dungeon.

I know that the second example technically isn't grind, but if you have to fight 200 battles in the dungeon you're currently in just for one level up, making random encounters happen every 2 steps instead of 10 doesn't magically make it feel less grindy. If anything, it makes dungeon exploration tedious.

Are there any retro RPGs that have mid to low encounter rates (or enemy sprites you run into for battle) and a good exp curve between dungeons so that it's nearly impossible to be under- or over-levelled?

The best example I can think of off the top of my head is non-retro. Last Odyssey had a huge jump in exp rewarded for battles between areas, but there was also a huge jump in required exp between levels when you reached an appropriate level for the area you're in. As a rough example, say the game wanted your party at level 10 in a dungeon, it would give you 200exp per fight, and it would take 400-1000 exp per level until lv20, and then it would take 5000 exp to level to 21. The next dungeon might give 1500 exp per fight and then at lv 25 the exp requirements might jump again. The encounter rate was also low enough that you'd just barely be at a good level by the boss of the dungeon and grinding past the game's intended level was often too time consuming to be worth it.

Any retro games do similar?

>>3694387
>two kinds of grinding
>grinding for money and levels
>grinding for money and levels

Really parsed that one for us, champ.

>>3694387
You forgot one kind, grinding for a rare drop.

>>3693123
This. The game has a lot of soul and is worth checking out but damn dat grindan.

>>3694387
Seiken Densetsu 3

>>3694397
you didn't even read it, did you

>>3694438
Yeah, but that's rarely required grinding. Well, except in MMOs, but that's another thread.

>>3694387
>so that it's nearly impossible to be under- or over-levelled?
Being under or overleveled largely depends on one's knowledge of the system.
But try Metal Max: Returns anyways, levels are mostly useless there and you can comfortably clear all the content in the game at around level 25 out of 100, if you know what you're doing of course. And since there's so many quests to do it is simply stupid to grind in there.

Since you've asked for enemy sprites to run into SaGa is just like that, but it doesn't have neither EXP nor levels, it usually punishes grinding and most people simply can't get into the series' mechanics at all, you either love it or hate it really.

Valkyrie Profile also has enemy sprites and has a set number of enemies for each game chapter, so overleveling or grinding is out of the question entirely, and even killing everything in each single chapter doesn't amount to much if you don't learn the game's system.

>>3694596
I remember enjoying Valkyrie Profile back in the day, but didn't keep playing it. Maybe I'll pick it up again.

I played SaGa 1-3 on GB and really liked the leveling system. If I remember correctly, for mutants it was like the system from FFII except that it worked, for humans it was consumable item based, robots were equipment based, and monsters ate other monsters to evolve. Never played the other SaGa games, but I hear they're all different.

As for Metal Max Returns, I had never heard of the series before until I saw it mentioned around here but I keep hearing great things about it. I've watched some gameplay videos and it honestly looks like a pretty generic SNES RPG minus the tanks, but I put it on my list anyway because of how novel it looks.

>>3694387
>... walking around the same spot over and over looking for random encounters so you can level up and/or buy better gear before moving to the next area.
>... to build your exp and gold to an appropriate level to continue exploring the dungeon.

>>3694485

Yeah, toooootally different kinds of grinding. One is for leveling up (via XP) and to buy gear (via gold). The other is for experience points (for levels) and gold (for gear and items).

>>3694762
You should try the other SaGa games, they're all a one of a kind experience, you can't say you like RPGs if you don't play SaGa games, they're some of the very best out there.

You shouldn't judge Metal Max, or any game by that matter, by videos, it is not a generic game at all and tanks are the heart of the game, tank customization is superb for its time and so is exploration, I heartily suggest you to play the series as a whole because it's consistently well done and a work of love, it might not be as eccentric and complex as SaGa games but it might be for the better for some people.

Of course, knowing japanese also opens up a lot of possibilities for other titles, but I do not know whether you know the language, you should check out Artdink's titles even if you do not know moonrunes because they used to be, and still are to some degree, Sim-RPGs fans, most notably for the Lunatic Dawn series which is their best work imho, though they're arguably different from most other games, much like SaGa, but for a different reason.

I almost forgot, If you want a more standard game with good exp. pacing check out Mystic Ark, it's a pretty straightforward game with a real nice scenario and music.

>>3694301

>>3694596
Are there many other games that punish you for grinding?

Most of them if you aren't a shitter

Not DQ though

>>3692732

I agree with the spoiler

Check out the Ys series. I especially like Ys Origins. You can finish a playthrough in one afternoon if you're so inclined.

>>3694387
Suikoden have kinda similar leveling, you can grind for items but once you achieved intended level your XP gain is so low there is almost no point in grinding.

At least that is in S1&2, don't remember if it was changed in later games.

>>3697170
>Ys
>not grindy

Maybe on easy? You pretty much need to grind in Ys because the damage formula is just attack - defense, so one level makes a huge difference. Killing everything between you and a boss will probably still leave you below the intended level. I adore the Ys series but it would definitely be better off without leveling.

>>3694762
>looks like a pretty generic SNES RPG

It's everything but generic. Also (and sadly) a really unique game, you are not gonna find anything similar but other Metal Max games and maybe Steambot Chronicles. It's like Fallout made by the japanese.

>>3694861
You should really do a chart of obscure original RPG's.