Is this the most overrated retro dev on here? All their games

Not at all.

>>3677274

they made donkey kong country yall

>Criticizing framerate
Is this a new meme, because I've been seeing it a lot around here lately. It's such a hindsight criticism. I lived through fifth gen and nobody gave a shit about framerate back then - during 5th gen graphics were king and everything else was secondary,.

my main justification for getting a super nintendo and a genesis as a bandwagon collector was to play DKC and Battletoads

>>3677289
How old were you and how many people did you know? Framerate has always been important.

>>3677274
>All their games are just desperate imitations of 1st party Nintendo IP

Banjo Kazooie took Mario 64 and turned it into an adventure. So did Diddy Kong Racing of Mario Kart. That's not an imitation, it's using inspiration to build something new. If you want to know what an imitation is, it's Crash Team Racing of Diddy Kong Racing.

What Nintendo games were Blast Corps, Goldeneye and Jet Force Gemini ripping off?

The reason Rare isn't an overrated developer is that during their golden era they tried a wide variety of genres and had tremendous successful in each one.

Just because their golden age was during a time when 3D was in a low framerate era doesn't take away from that.

>>3677289
>>3677304
Framerate has always been important, but during the 90s people understood that innovation and ambition in 3D could come with a trade-off of a lower framerate. Rare tried to be technically ambitious with all of their golden age games. Again, it would have been easier if they became creatively backrupt and just spun 2D games into a 3D perspective like Crash Bandicoot, but they wanted to push game design forward even if it was experimental and occasionally didn't work out well.

OP, what would you NOT CALL a "desperate imitation"?.

I want to see you confirm yourself for a confused faggot.

>>3677313
All though the 90s I couldn't care less about frame rate.
Or sprite flicker.
Or any other hardware limitations.
It was a part of the game. Something you had to deal with.
We all knew why these things were happening. Too much shit on the screen that the system can't handle.
Did we care? Fuck no. Games fun. Games with friends even more fun.

Also, you forgot about Perfect Dark. The upgraded Goldeneye, if you will.
Rare did also kinda copy earlier ideas too. I played some DKC recently and noticed that there are a lot of similarities to Mario in everything from level design to mechanics. Although, everything that rare did with these basic concepts was an improvement in every way.

I bet OP is the same shitposter that uses "treasurefag" everytime someone mentions a Treasure game.

You're boring, dude.

>>3677289
>defending 20 fps garbage
is this a new le meme

>>3677274
conkers bad fur day

even the xbox port of it was censored, no more great mighty poo song

i grew up with nes and snes, n64 as a teen, as others have said no one cared about framerate, a vast majority of us played consoles on CRT TVs which were limited. we only cared about sprite flickering and personally the ability to change direction while jumping.

framerate... this is almost as bad as sega fags back in the day talking about blast processing, and how genesis was made to compete with the nes not the snes (not bashing sega, i enjoy both consoles)

the more a game made you want to smash the controller, the better the game was. we got good there was no other way.

>>3677661
>i grew up with nes and snes, n64 as a teen
Same here but low frame rate is one of the thing that makes it hardest to go back to an old game for me. I'd much rather have smooth 2D than clunky 3D.

But as far as OP goes you can't blame frame rate on Rare, they did their best.

>le framerate meem

Don't blame Rare for the hardware. Almost all of that shit ran poorly.

>>3677672
you mean 27-30fps? that's all that's needed for our brains to see it as motion.

why are you and OP so worried about framerate when the lag from todays TV's/monitors makes some games crazy hard because you have to account for that lag that's now present and anticipate your actions.

the light gun worked by changing a single frame to an all black screen with a white sprite over the target when the trigger was pulled, the lag is so high on todays tv's that the light gun no longer works.

every thing you have to add between the console and TV to make an old system work wasn't even accounted for when those games were made, which adds lag.

I completely agree about blaming things on Rare, they produced some beautiful stuff for its time.

i remember blasting through games as a kid, even playing them on a CRT TV i wonder how i did the things i did when i was younger. i know my reaction time has suffered. playing some games with emulation on a PC (battletoads lvl 11) with a decent gaming monitor the lag is just too much.

>>3677709
The terrible framerate in Goldeneye affects the controls and makes everything a chore.
Compare aiming by turning and aiming by bringing up that red reticle. The difference in smoothness is huge.

>>3677718
Back when it first came out, no one cared.
Kind of annoying, sure. But again, no one cared. We were having too much fun.

>>3677720
I sure as hell cared, it sucked.

>>3677718
let me guess, you probably picked hand job or what ever the midgets name was when playing multiplayer

>>3677720
>fun

Not an argument

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>>3677718
>the "goldeneye is unplayable" myth

>>3677718
How old are you really?

They made Battletoads, tho. If you had the patience to get good at it, it wsa one of the best experiences on the NES.

>>3677762
it is a great game, to this i day i can't beat it legitimately, but i can still make it to the last level

>>3677774

I can beat it legit, but I need an OG NES Controller and a CRT to do it. Otherwise, I can't get past the orb race level.

>>3677781
level 11, 60ms lag will mess you up big time on that level

>>3677736
I would never associate with manlets
>>3677742
When half the difficulty comes from janky controls due to framerate issue there's a problem
>>3677747
32

>>3677808
>When half the difficulty comes from janky controls due to framerate issue there's a problem

Many people considering the XBLA version of Perfect Dark harder than the N64 version because the slowdown on N64 can save your ass. On XBLA you stand in the wrong place and you can die to machine gun burst fire in 2 seconds.

So no, sorry.

>>3677817
Many terrible players maybe.
Your apology is accepted.

>>3677820
What's the bet you never even finished a level on Perfect Agent?

It also has to do with the fact that the Xbox 360 stick has larger deadzones than the N64 stick.

>>3677829
I've never even played Perfect Dark on n64, the issue was Goldeneye and the 60fps 1964 hack is much easier than the original version.

>>3677846
>I've never even played Perfect Dark on n64

So don't comment about it dingus.

>>3677849
You're the one who brought it up for no good reason doofus.

>>3677851
Cause it was a valid point in response to your comment about Goldeneye.

But then you're like
>hurrr i've never played the game but i'm going to make a comment on player skill level

>>3677859
It's not valid unless slowdown also makes Goldeneye easier and it doesn't. Nobody said anything about Perfect Dark.

>>3677862
But it does, albeit not to the same extent since Goldeneye gives more invincibility frames. But the game mechanics between the two are very similar otherwise.

>>3677867
Have you played through Goldeneye at 60fps?

>>3677313
Rare is fucking garbage.

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>>3677313
Your first paragraph is retarded. Mario 64 is more grandiose an adventure than the Banjos, and MK64 has superior AI and course layouts than DKR (though both are lame compared to CTR). Might try removing that Rareware cock from your mouth, lad.

>Blast Corps
Not Nintendo, but Twisted Metal is an inspiration.

>Goldeneye
PC FPS did it better. The controls in GE were wack.

>Jet Force Gemini
Arguably, it's 3D Metroid.

You can't name 1 innovative Rareware game. They rely on taking established concepts and doing them worse. So I would say, in that regard, they're indeed overrated.

>>3677875
Yes. Have you tried playing it without the mouse hack?

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>>3677880
>Twisted Metal is an inspiration.
(You)

>>3677883
I've never used a mouse for it.

>>3677893
How many levels have you beaten in 00 Agent without savestates?

>>3677304
not the guy you're replying to but I have NEVER heard anyone bitch and moan about framerate during the time I actively used my n64.

It's a complaint that I've seen mostly on /vr/ and nowhere else, except maybe speedruns.

>>3677880

Did Rare touch you in your no-no spot or something?

By your logic everything is a rip-off of something else.

>>3677901
All of them of course, it's a cakewalk compared to the original.

wtf i hate rare now

>>3677878
Rare is pretty great tho

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>>3677880

>>3677274
can you fucking get banned for this kind of low quality bait?

>>3677880
fuck you anime fag.

>>3677274
Which Nintendo games were Goldeneye/Perfect Dark imitations of?

Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie were improvements upon Mario 64.

>>3677880

>MK64 has superior AI and course layouts than DKR

>Goldeneye
>PC FPS did it better.

>Jet Force Gemini
>Arguably, it's 3D Metroid.

have you tried to put a bullet in your brain you gigantic f/a/ggot?

>make a thread about how much Rare sucks
>don't go after their Ultimate days when they made overpriced crap on the Spectrum
>don't go after their Microsoft days when they were making pale imitations of their N64 output
>go after their Rareware output so you can feel like a special snowflake

>>3677880
>and MK64 has superior AI and course layouts than DKR (though both are lame compared to CTR).

Stopped reading there. Lurk more before posting you stupid under/a/ge fucktard

>>3677880
LOL like PC FPS didn't rip off ultima underworld

>>3677304
18+

>>3677274
>i spend more time watching the frame rate on my memeulator than i do playing games.
Must suck to be that kind of fagot.

>>3677808
>When half the difficulty comes from janky controls due to framerate issue there's a problem
>hurr what is dual analog mode

framerate in a lot of these older games is a minor issue, a game running at 20fps isn't the end of the world. Only absolute retards consider this a major issue. A world where the target of 30 or 60fps is met is an ideal one, but to have your ideal impede reality is just a simple way to banner your stupidity.

If it's such a problem for you to overcome a minor hindrance, kindly fuck off to PC gaming.

>>3679190
>I have shit standards and everyone who disagrees with me is stupid!

It's actually better for a game to run at a constant 20FPS with no drops than 30FPS with dips. Indivisible framerates won't synchronize with the refresh rate and results in stuttering.

>>3677274
>All their games are just desperate imitations of 1st party Nintendo
And that's perfectly fine.

>>3679193
Yes, show off your stupidity to the world.

>>3679321
>Yes, I showed off my stupidity to the world.

>>3679334
You have shit standards. We got that. And you like showing your stupidity off to the world. We got that.

Now is there anything new you would like to present?

>>3677941
Generally, everything is. People don't create things in vacuums and take inspiration from lots of things, consciously and subconsciously. And that is why this thead is retarded.

>>3679183
wtf is dual analog mode on n64?

>>3679584
PLUG IN TWO CONTROLLERS
CHANGE INPUT METHOD IN OPTIONS MENU

>>3679584
this is advanced trolling

>>3679585
>>3679587
That doesn't stop the frame rate from ruining the controls.

>>3679591
Actually, no. You do know that input frames can be separate from display frames, right?

>>3679650
Obviously not the case in Goldeneye since you can tell the difference in control response when you up the frame rate.

>>3679659
Doesn't prove much since input rate could be set as a multiplier of display rate.

Also, you do know the difference between input rate and the display of feedback to input right?

>>3679695
If the input rate is set as a multiplier of display rate then obviously the controls are smoother with a higher frame rate, ie the frame rate is Goldeneye's problem.

>>3679723
No, I mean a multiplier of the frame cap. If it was synchronized to the actual display frame rate then the input rate wouldn't be separate.

It's well known that Mario 64's frame cap is 30 FPS, but it reads input at 60 fps - it's 2 times to the cap that stays consistent even when display (very rarely) rate drops. Goldeneye appears to be the same. Audio is also synchronized from video on N64 - otherwise the sound would pop - even though they are both processed on the GPU. The 60 FPS Goldeneye hack raises the cap which could raise the input reading rate to 120 FPS.

FYI OoT has a 20 FPS display rate but also reads input at 60 FPS - a 3 times multiplier.

>>3679728
But OoT also control like shit while Mario is smooth.

>>3679728
*de-synchronized meant to say

>>3679731
>But OoT also control like shit while Mario is smooth.
Both read input at 60 FPS, it's a quirk of both games (actually running the same game engine) as proved by speedrunners.

Congratulations! You have proved that you can't tell the difference between input rate and the visual feedback of input.

>>3679741
And you proved you can't tell the difference between smooth controls and chuggy shit.

>>3679743
Says that guy that doesn't know input rate is factually separate from the frame rate in Mario 64 and OoT

lmao

b-b-but it FEELS more jerky....my FEELS are important

>>3679749
Do you understand how a video game works?
It doesn't matter if you take input 1000 times a second, if the frame rate is sub 30 the controls will be clunky.
Move stick
Observe change
Move stick again to adjust

>>3679769
>It doesn't matter if you take input 1000 times a second, if the frame rate is sub 30 the controls will be clunky.
If this were true there would be no point having input rate higher than frame rate. Just stop posting and git gud.

>>3679775
No, that's not what it means.
A high input rate is good but it doesn't matter how high it is when the frame rate is below 30.
Do you understand the concept of using eyes to observe a change on screen?
Followed by moving a stick or pressing a button in response to it?

>>3679783
>Do you understand the concept of using eyes to observe a change on screen?
Yes, and it's unnecessary for a good player in Mario 64, OoT and Goldeneye to see every frame between frames as long as the game stays reactive to input.

Only time you *need* 60 FPS is stuff like fighting games where frame counting is sometimes important.

>>3679796
I'm not saying it has to run like a competition fighting game, just that the games would have had much smoother controls and be much easier if it weren't for the sub 30 frame rate. That's a fact.

>>3677274
Killer Instinct is the only good Rare game.

>>3677274
No.

/thread

>>3677598
treasurefag detected

>>3680665
memeshitters pls go

>Is this the most overrated retro dev on here?

No.

>All their games are just desperate imitations of 1st party Nintendo IP

Same genre != imitation

>Half of them chug below 30 frames.

The only thing that chugs here is you with semen.

>>3680842
pwned

>>3677274
No, Donkey Kong country had some of the tightest control/gameplay of that generation, felt much different than Super Mario world. Also, battletoads isn't really like anything else.

>>3680881
>battletoads isn't really like anything else.
Its just a shitty gaijin knockoff of Bayou Billy.