so how does Agahnim being Ganon make sense again? This topic

>>3658213
Same way Ganon was Zant: Possession.

>>3658213
I always saw it as agahnim is just light world ganon (just as link transforms into a animal in the dark world ganon transforms into a human in the light world). He just went by agahnim to hide his idenity. As to how he became unprisioned I suppose that's a plothole or up to interpretation, maybe some dark world followers? Been awhile since I played alttp but I remember he definitely had followers.

>>3658213
it was essentially his evilness taking control of him

same stuff as Zant and so on

For Mike's explanation to work he had to bring in lore from the cartoon. I 'm pretty sure the game or manual made it fairly clear Agahnim was the king's wizard who was mind controlled or possessed by Ganon from the other dimension to do his bidding and work to open the seal. When you see the spirit of Ganon leave Agahnim's corpse it's just a visual representation of his bond being broken over him.

>>3658213
Maybe whoever wrote Ganon's dialogue simply didn't really know what an alter ego is. Is there any other place in the game where it is implied they were the same character?

>>3658213
I don't even remember them being the same guy and I'm going to have to take your word for it

>>3658229
That's actually cool to think about anon. Never thought of it that way.
>>3658297
I would guess that but from what I think of the seal that was put on him he wouldn't be able to do even that but I guess that would be the closest choice.

>>3658312
Supposedly in the GBA version he says puppet instead of alter-ego.

It's refreshing to see /vr/ get off of it's high horse and actually discuss something that was recently brought up by "shit ecelebs"

>>3658336
Theyre still shit ecelebs though outside of v. Its only gaining traction here because the shitters on vr are old washed up normies just like mike and james.

It amazes me that James and Mike both consider LttP to be one of their favorite games of all time yet both sucked so bad at it. I can't believe how worked up and nervous James got fighting the Turtle Rock boss, let alone Ganon. It's like shit, you've beat this before, just chill out, it's not even hard.

The Dark World seal was starting to weaken because of Demise's curse. Him using the 7 maidens to break the seal was probably Demise's influence, and from that point on Agahnim was Ganon's light world reincarnation.

It's the same way that Yuga gained the spirit of Ganon in ALBW. Demise's curse ensures that an incarnation of Ganon will rise up again and again in some form. By the time of LttP, Ganon has become more of a demonic entity than a person, so Demise's curse always manifests itself in the form of Ganon's revival/reincarnation.

>>3658297
>When you see the spirit of Ganon leave Agahnim's corpse it's just a visual representation of his bond being broken over him.

No, it's the actual Ganon possessing him. It happens in the top room of Ganon's own tower and Ganon then turns into a bat, flies away, and crashes into the Pyramid to fight in his own shape.

It does seem likely that there was an original Agahnim who was a human wizard that got possessed by Ganon in the Light World, though.

>>3658312
Japanese word used is apparently "bunshin". That usually refers to the fake clone bodies (or optical illusions of bodies) used by ninjas. Since Agahnim is clearly not a clone of Ganon, the secondary translation of alter ego makes more sense.

>>3658403
'bunshin' also means 'other self' or 'offshoot'.

to my understanding, Agahnim is a proxy or avatar Ganon used to interact with the light world while imprisoned in the dark world. this was possible because the seal between the worlds had gradually weakened over time - and this is because the Hylian bloodlines of Knights and Wise Men had thinned out (another plot point given more emphasis in Japanese).

>>3658403
>bunshin
paper news?

>>3658434
分身, not 文新.

>>3658457
How logical.

>>3658483
it sure is.

>>3658383
Who the hell is Demise? Is this some newer game shit?

>>3658213
>With that eye symbol on him I get more sheikah than anything.
That artwork is from the GBA re-release and not part of Agahnim's original design; it was added because the artist wanted something to give him more visual appeal or whatever so he just jacked the Sheikah symbol without worrying about the consequences

Anyway Ganon is clearly shown in other games to escape imprisonment and take human form again (Twilight Princess for example) it's just that it's more convenient in LTTP's time to pretend not to be Ganondorf because it's common knowledge that Ganondorf became Ganon (this is actually the first game where that's even mentioned, although I think it's only in the manual)

>>3658592
skyward sword villain. proto-Ganon.

>>3658597
Yeah, but in TP, Ganondorf escapes as a Gerudo and not a beast because he hadn't become Ganon yet in OOT. In ALTTP he had already become Ganon before being sealed

>>3658639
> trying to pull timeline bullshit
I hate this, because the "Imprisoning War" is clearly just Ocarina's story, which if you follow their bullshit official timeline doesn't even happen in LTTP

>>3658679
it's stupid but it's a requirement of their making two separate sequels to OoT that are both incompatible with ALttP.

an alternate interpretation would be just assuming that ALttP and WW both follow from the end of OoT with Ganon sealed in the Sacred Realm but that single timeline split somehow.

>>3658597
>That artwork is from the GBA re-release and not part of Agahnim's original design
um no it's not. there is go art with it as well most notably the image of Agahnim overwhelming Link with his lightning attack.

>>3658710
>go
meant og there but alright fuck macs.

>>3658403
Then why would they change it to puppet in the GBA port? (Assuming >>3658321 is correct.)
It can imply that Agahnim is a different character, only being controlled by Ganon.

>>3658336
That's because /vr/ was discussing it before some e-celeb put it on youtube.

Why the fuck is his sprite green and his art red

>>3658745
Same reason Link has sandy blond hair in the art but in his sprite it's pink.

>>3658213

Seriously, he's clearly Mum-Ra

He's an avatar of Ganon.

I figure that he was some willing dark priest/follower of Ganon who allowed his body to be a vessel for Ganon. Kinda along the lines of how the monsters in AoL were wanting to revive Ganon.

I'm going with Occam's Razor here... nobody gave a shit. Especially in the English translation.

There wasn't really a cohesive story for Zelda at the beginning. Not just in the series as a whole, as everyone knows, but within the games themselves.

>>3658736
Considering that the JP version specifically refers to him as a "bunshin," I'd assume that Agahnim is a being created from Ganon's magic, and that's all there is to it. Like others have said, a sort of avatar that Ganon can use to do his dirty work in the Light World without actually having to be there.

Nigga u got to be 10 years old for this to confuse u

>>3658229
thats a cool theory lets hope their thoughts gone so far

>>3658597
the eye symbol is on the hyrule castle roof outside of agahnim's tower.

>>3658297
This is a fun theory because Link doesn't try to save Agahnim. Just kills the poor guy

>>3658679
the prologue text of LttP clearly references the imprisoning war.

>>3658365
Probably a lot of pressure on James since it's pretty obvious at this point that he's not very good at video games.

>>3659209
But it's not live. They could just edit out all the hundreds of deaths.

>>3659069
This is deviating the question. The point is they wouldn't specifically change the word to "puppet" on the port for absolutely no reason which implies the term alter ego wasn't correct. If Agahnim really were just a mindless avatar, then alter ego would've sufficed. The Japanese term itself may have been misused by the person writing the dialogue, consequentially adding to the confusion on the process of translation.

>>3659241
the problem is, we're not sure which translation is more or less accurate, because 'bunshin' isn't specific.

>>3658457
>>3658483
I was counselled by my council, etc...

>>3658229
That almost makes sense except you fight Agahnim in the Dark world at the top of Ganon's tower.

>trying to draw conclusions about plots from badly translated english versions

>>3659253
although come to think of it, they could've used a Japanese word that more specifically meant puppet/pawn/proxy if that's what they meant. based on that, I'd assume 'puppet' is inaccurate, and 'alter-ego' or 'doppelganger' is more accurate.

the Sage in the Sanctuary seems to suggest that Agahnim is possessed by a demon or evil spirit, although this might be unreliable narration.

>>3658616
I know a lot of people shit on Demise because of his dialogue, but I think it adds a bit of an interesting twist, seeing how he's absorbed into the Master Sword.

In this way, if the bloodlines of Link and Hylia continue to persist and gravitate towards using the Master Sword in their hour of need, they basically ensure that Demise will also return. It's funny, because if you consider Minish Cap and Spirit Tracks, games that don't feature Ganon, the Master Sword is also not present.

>>3659307
Yeah but link also could also be his light world self in the dark world. If link could so could ganon/agahnim.

>>3659614
Link used the Moon Pearl to maintain his form in the dark world.

If Ganon = Agahnim, how did he maintain his light world form?
If Ganon =/= Agahnim, why does Agahnim appear the same in both worlds?

also, Ganon was originally the leader of a band of thieves, not a high priest/wizard, so that doesn't add up.

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>>3659628
Ganon could've also had a moon pearl.

Or really just pic related.

>>3659307
Ganon is a magician. Shapeshifting is pretty standard for those types.

>>3659634
you're probably right.

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>>3659628
>a thief can't be a wizard
You ever heard of gypsies or pic related?

He was also a thief AND a wizard in OoT and WW.

>>3659647
good point desu.

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>>3659628
agahnim is a robot made of magic and ganon can create one just the same in either world

>>3659241
>>3659460
'alter ego' and 'doppelganger' are quite different things, agahnim is pokey's doppelganger, not ganon's.

>>3659460
Doppelgangers are shadowy lookalikes that someone sees in the forests before they die or before something bad happens.

>>3659660
>>3659671

I guess I used the term too loosely. Agahnim doesn't look like Ganon, although they're clearly connected. so, alter-ego.