Best shmup?

shmups have no soul.

It's literally the most soulless genre in all of video games.

>>3642374
>shmups have no soul.

Parodius has soul.

>>3642365
>pic unrelated

>>3642402
>>pic unrelated

How come?

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Thunder Force III is sublime

Cotton 2 magical night dreams is my second favorite shmup, second to its sequel cotton 2 boomerang. It's funny, cute, has great music, solid mechanics and great level design, challenging bosses and what really sells it for me is the grab mechanic. Inproved in boomerang, its a stroke of brilliance in cotton 2. Plus the unique enemy deaths are great. Its hilarious grabbing a shrimp and having it turned into a fried shrimp.

>>3642423
>Thunder Force III is sublime

What platform?

>>3642437
Genesis

TRUXTON

>>3642374
explain

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I don't think the phrase "best" exists as an answer to your question OP. Now with that cleared up, I'm going to get a little bit wordy and sentimental and it probably is going to spill over into several large posts.

As mentioned "best" as an objective term doesn't exist. But, this is my favorite game period. When I clued into this game it had been out for several years. Ironically the only reason I knew it existed was because of Simon B's shmup radio that was running at the time. Moving on;

Music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWJZjSbST1Q
The music is great, Yasuhisa Watanabe really gave it a signature feel that stands as unique as his work in Metal Black
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxU1XU6BEOo
(Which sets the tone amazingly to what the rest of the game is going to be and gets deeper from there)
and Senko no Ronde.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acRInv4PwdE
When I said I was clued into the game by the music, what I meant was I heard an arrange of Snow Fox:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvyC1JTO3mU
Anyways the game, Sounded really far out to me. I imported I think that weekend, or maybe it was the end of that month? I can't remember.

Sound:
To say nothing of the sound. I don't play many games where every sound effect in that game just fits with what I mentally think it should sound like. Enemy laser sounds fit the headcanon of what they should sound like and the sparks that fly during beam struggles makes it all the more satisfying to do them.

Looks:
The Graphics are top notch. Visually it still looks amazing to me and probably will always withstand the test of time in my eyes. The explosions are pretty satisfying. The design of the stations you're going to are elaborate. And the boss design is pretty interesting. The range of colors is great. The difference in the primary colors used during different borders is also good. Space also feels like "space" which is the hardest thing to put to words as is seeing a battle rage behind in stage 3.


(cont)

>>3642576

Gameplay:
The tools you have is your standard shot, homing lasers, and your break laser. Your gauge at the bottom controls all of these. By destroying enemies and collecting spheres that carriers drop you can raise your gauge. The gauge's level and how full it is dictates how strong your shot is, and how many lasers you can shoot. Using the Break Laser destroys bullets, and makes you invulnerable (for a while at least) but drains your laser. The named "Border Down" refers to a system where you will drop to a different Border (ship) if you die, which often has different routes through that same stage. Borders are green, yellow, and red. The lower the border the harder the game is comparatively. So you're encouraged to not die too often, however that's not a problem as will be explained later.

Gameplay wise it's pretty simple to play, with the complexity coming in regards to scoring when you finally get to that point. While there are pickups in a sense they affect your gauge you're not going to be swapping constantly like in r-type to what tool to use for a situation and instead will be entirely focused on Break Laser gauge management. But even if you never get to the point where you care about scoring the game is still amazingly fun to play. Beyond that, beam struggles are amazing, every game needs them.

Difficulty:
You mentioned "not in difficulty" so I should explain as stated above that the game is as hard as you want it to be/can make it. There are several static difficulty settings that you can tune in the options. Furthermore, you can choose how tough you want it to be by selection that border. On top of both of those options is the dynamic difficulty that scales to reasonable levels based on your performance. And if you hit the break limit at the end of a level, you can Border up. What this means is that if you die, though you're on a lower border the game is relatively easier than if you had, for example, started on yellow and stayed on yellow.

>>3642579

Story:

This is a weird thing to bring up considering how spare it is but I love the story of this game. It may not be as fucked as the Bydo, but it still exists, how limited in capacity it is. And I know this is both nostalgia and Bias. And I don't care. While never localized this game still has engrish on screen as well for those who can't read Japanese. Moving on from that, for the most part, every ending screen is in some way canon. Though you may have to look outside if you can't notice that the top left of the first 3 stages mission planning explain that they are simulations.

What makes it more unique is that while you can practice for every stage, the 6's vary dramatically in both stage and tonal shift in the story.

So you go from stage 6a/6b's final boss fight shown below which has a lighter end :
(excuse the quality)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBwwnLp9lvo&t
to stage 6C and 6D shown below which have a darker end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtpXcyqejmM

Replayability:
I don't want to run 4 posts so I'll make this short. This game has everything as stated above in regards to dynamic difficulty but the dreamcast release ALSO has a remix mode. And with practice modes in each of them they give you an excuse to try to get better. Remix's mode Border Red also has unique music, encouraging you to get good enough to see the entire game through that. Up to and including the final boss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHW35x-DAns

Finally:
>>3642374
>shmups have no soul
A soul is the love given to a game. Hiroyuki Maruyama stated that the work his company did to generate resources (such as work on Ikaruga) was to make money to make this game, and that if the company went down afterwards he'd be content. And all this because of the impression Metal Black left on him. If that's not an example of "soul" being imbued in a game then I don't know what is.

LOOPIN LOUIE

>>3642374
Soul is a meme, and getting good at shmups feels much better than any shitty "art-game" 2bh

>>3642675
What even is an art-game? I think that the passion involved in a videogame means far more than anything else. Because if the developers care about it, it will show. Meanwhile throwaway games feel terrible.

I mean we can say that's the difference between Silent Hill 1-3 (and maybe 4) and some shit like Origins. I do think "soul" exists, but more or less really just means "endearing" or the more wildly use "comfy" and not like "personality" or "character" which can only be used to describe games that are different for the sake of being different and not because of creative intention.

>>3642419
Battle Garegga is more overrated than all Treasure games put together. It's your average Raizing game with badly scaling difficulty, but the shmup community is hailing it so much that you'd think it's a meme.

>>3642691
I think it gets a lot more praise because of aesthetics than anything else. The game looks and sounds great. Though I did meet exactly one person who thinks it's terrible scaling difficulty is actually a good thing and boss milking is great.

Loony dude, that. Anyways while overrated, it doesn't change that it's still a good game, and just because fans flock to it and nothing else doesn't mean I'm going to invalidate it. You know what I mean? Let them have their fun, I guess.

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Perfect shmup right here

>>3642684
Nigger if anything shmups are one of the most passionate genres out there, the dev teams were very personal and small compared to most mass produced stuff made on consoles.

>>3642698
I know. I'm agreeing with you.

>>3642691
>Battle Garegga is more overrated than all Treasure games put together
Normalfags don't even know about Battle Garegga you retard, meanwhile Ikaruga and RSG are very popular

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>>3642365
Best shmup isn't even really a shmup.

>>3642365
>Battle Garegga
overrated shit

>>3642720
t. pleb

>>3642705
I've been hearing more about Garegga than Ikaruga and RSG from anyone who is "playing" shmups.

>>3642736
So have I, know that I think on it.

"The Best Shoot 'Em Up Ever Made"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjhKaAyYvm4

>>3642365
Tyrian 2000

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>"This is the control tower, make a left turn. Over."
>"Roger."

>>3642759
Oh hey I've played Tyrian 2000. Fun game
but I wouldn't consider it for best game ever factored on the modular nature alone

>>3642705

Reminerd that NORMALFAGS were the ones who made the genre popular back in the 80s.

You were born in the mid or late 90s and you think shmup is some obscure, hidden genre only for hardkerk gamurs, but it's one of the most popular and normalfaggized genres of the past, and your young asshole will have to deal with it.

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>>3642365

The R-Type games are the best imho. Precise pattern recognition and good reflexes are required to beat the game. R-type 1, 2, 3, and Delta are all quality shmups.

>>3642784
In 30 years there will be people talking about how hardcore Halo was.

>>3642789

It's already happening.
Which is why we need to protect /vr/'s rules.

Poser pseudo-"hardcore elitist" "gamers" are really the worst.

>>3642794
Preserve which rules? Nothing in them has stopped people acting like trolls so far.

>>3642786
You forgot the extreme emphasis of memorization, especially in delta where dead zones start appearing everywhere past stage 4. Stage 4, ironically has the coolest musical shift when you get to the upper area, esp on hard. Shit just comes out of nowhere with the purpose of fucking you up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAbcwxqLb_s
While I've listed the reasons why Border Down is *my* personal favorite shmup of all time, I won't deny for a second that R-type have some of the greatest stage design and may very well be some of the best in the genre (excluding Super R-type)

Story's surprisingly dark as fuck after the tonal shift in 3 and especially in delta. That ending where your ship doesn't escape and gets bydo'd is the stuff of nightmares.

And man I can't think of a game play system that's more satisfying to master than controlling the fuck out of your force.

>>3642796

Not allowing 6th gen, which would, in turn, make people push for 7th gen in just a few years.

>Nothing in them has stopped people acting like trolls so far.

Yeah, /vr/ has a lot of trolls, for a slower board (which isn't as slow as it used to be, now it's quite active all the time), but if we allow the new millennium generations, things will get really ugly.

>>3642801
Ahh see, I have the opposite attitude. I think it's only natural this board should allow 6th gen at some point (or better yet move to rules based on year)

The point I was talking was that when the games were released doesn't really matter, opinions of them will change over time. The person now trying to say shmups were never a popularist genre are the same as those who will try to say the same about Halo or Cod or whatever "new" game. There will always be those people, and this board is proof that simply being older is no guarantee of maturity.

I think the way forward is rules and attitudes that promote discussion while working with people's different perspectives on games instead of against them.

>>3642784
Popular 80s shmups in the west:
Galaga
Gradius
maybe Xevious
...?

The only place where the genre was popular was Japan, in the west they didn't do any better than other genres you stupid fuck, which is the reason the genre was "discovered" much later.

>>3642775
I actually never played it myself, but that video it's well made, and the guy have really good points

I'm not a Shmup expert, but my all tima favorite still Einhander on the PSX. The graphic (for the time) wee really good, and the soundtrack is amazing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udten60Sh8k

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>>3642365

Good documentary that also covers the Japanese shmup scene in this day and age. Worth a watch for sure.

Full documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PfK2v02Pnk

Enjoy :)

>>3642784
Oh fuck you're right thanks anon. I'll stop playing these asap, wouldn't want people to think I'm a normie!

>>3642816

Your underage is showing, anon.

Just refrain from posting, even if the truth angers you.

>>3642816
>which is the reason the genre was "discovered" much later.

What the fuck? The genre was never "discovered" much later. It was always a popular genre back then, both Japan and west.

Holy shit /vr/, this place is full of kids.

>>3642826
You know I was clued into Einhander after it came out by a fluke. The cover looked neat so I picked it up. It doesn't hurt. I probably would have discovered it earlier if the shmup radio I listened to had the translated names for the songs of the game.

Anyways, while I do love the game, I never fell as in love with it as other people. That said I won't deny for a second that it's both a pretty looking and sounding game that's a blast to play. Good taste anon

>>3642847
it's better if you don't respond to that type

>>3642847
Its popularity was nothing compared to Japan retard, japs always cultivated the genre while the west easily forgot it and even despised it, just look some reviews of 90s console shooters and you'll see westies were tired of the genre with mediocre sales.

>>3642865

>90s

that's why I said 80s, baby retard.

Of course everyone was tired of shmups by the 90s, the era of fighting games.

>>3642871
Again, in the 80's it did ok but not great, its popularity was nothing compared to something like platformers and there were only a few shooters that sold over 1m

>>3642374
>shmups have no soul.
wat?

they may be tributes to memorization, but given the nuances of well-designed shmup levels, formations, and bosses, you can really appreciate the effort a good level-designer put into their work. The genre has some of the most soulful games I can think of.

>>3642884
>Again, in the 80's it did ok but not great

wat

>sold

Sold? You're talking arcade cabinets? Quarters per cab?

>>3642886
lol

>>3642865
This is going to be my only post to you, by the by

>just look at some reviews
R-type delta
http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/r-type-delta-review/1900-2549177/
Einhander
http://www.ign.com/games/einhander/ps-2048
R-type 3
http://www.ign.com/articles/2007/02/22/r-type-iii-vc-review
(which was reviewed when the vc release came out)
Thunder Force
http://www.ign.com/articles/1998/11/14/thunder-force-v
Most of those are 8's or higher. Actually almost every shmup scored well in the 90's and this is coming DOWN from the shmup craze that was the 80's when shoot em ups were acclaimed by literally everybody.
>despised
Yeah no.

>was nothing compared to japan
To say nothing about the massive history of tournaments in the united states. World records used to be posted in common outlets. What about the critical acclaim of games like Defender and how that shaped western shoot em up appreciation? We may not have developed the most shoot em ups but we didn't care about them in less capacity. There were years you couldn't but trip over the cabinets in arcades for shit ranging from galaga to Asteroids.

>>3642884
1 million? You think games making as little as 1 million is a milestone? Really?
That low?
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-11-top-grossing-video-games-of-all-time-2015-8/#2-pac-man-arcadeconsolesmobilepc-1980--128-billion-10
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/top-10-biggest-grossing-arcade-games-of-all-time

And this doesn't even mention other shit like number of arcade cabinets sold

>>3642891
he'd be wrong in both accounts.

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>>3642884

Just stop pretending your special snowflake genre wasn't popular as fuck with normies before you were born, timmy.

>>3642897
There are always normies playing any kind of games. But they're not 1ccing.

>>3642895
>westerners
>world record in shmups
lol good laugh

>1million, that low?
Yeah, most shmups in the west couldn't even surpass low sales like that.

>muh defender, muh galaga
Yeah oldies like that are some of the few games dads care about, any shooter after that they don't give a fuck.

>>3642897
Just stop pretending your minority dadcore with a couple years of success is representative of the genre as a whole.

>>3642904
>b-but they aren't doing 1cc on MAME like I do!
>>3642905
>b-but dads!

Holy fuck this board is infested with literal post-millennials.

>>3642908

>dadcore

Just go back to /mu/, hipster memetard. I bet you don't even own a single PCB.

>>3642909
see >>3642908

>>3642908

You don't seem to be a fan of the genre if you minimize the importance of shmups during the 80s.

You just care about e-peen competence about who plays the most obscure shmups now that kids in this day and age don't have a clue about them, but you're in the wrong neighborhood, this is /vr/ and here you will find people who will tell it how it is. Shmups wasn't a niche genre, it was normie as fuck.

Go to /v/ or /vg/ if you want to pretend you're some sort of vidya guru for playing "niche" genres like shmups on MAME.

>>3642904
>1ccing
Who the fuckity fuck cares. Only on 4chan is there this stupid culture where people try to 1cc as many games as possible without even caring to master the mechanics or enter into personal scoring because lol they'll never get the WR anyways. Proper shmup forums are thankfully not like this.

>>3642909
The only hard part is arguing with these fuckers. No amount of facts you post is going to matter and even if you corner them they'll just steadily change the conversation. Don't reply to them and they'll maybe fuck about off to /v/.

And man I hate how off topic this shit can get.

>>3642913

See: >>3642912

you don't even like video games, or care about their history, you just use them as accessories for your hipster persona.

>>3642909
>post-millennials.

lol
millennial detected.

>>3642919
>Who the fuckity fuck cares.
Not him but arcade games are all about trying for a 1CC. Otherwise it's just credit feeding until you win. Trying to get through the game without dying is the first big goal in any of these.

>>3642923

Yeah, I was born in 1982.

Had the chance to actually play shmups on arcades in the late 80s.
Unlike you, a post-millennial born in the mid to late 90s, who got into shmups with MAME, thinking it was some sort of obscure "japan-only" niche genre.

>>3642927
>Unlike you, a post-millennial born in the mid to late 90s, who got into shmups with MAME, thinking it was some sort of obscure "japan-only" niche genre.

You're an awful psychic.

>>3642770
Ray Storm better

>>3642930

>guys, shmups were only popular in Japan! People only care about 1cc! the west hated shmups!

Yeah, you are a post-millennial who got into shmups through MAME. It's not necessary to be a psychic to figure that out.

>>3642916
>You don't seem to be a fan of the genre if you minimize the importance of shmups during the 80s.
They were very important, in Japan, in the west only a couple early 80s shit was popular there, then the genre was in constant decline with essentially no western developers working on them and not many players caring that much about later titles.

>but you're in the wrong neighborhood, this is /vr/ and here you will find people who will tell it how it is.
More like I will find dads nostalgic about some rosy past that never happened, because the genre was clearly in constant decline in the west.

>>3642925
>all about trying for a 1cc
Sure but the main goal should be fun. You don't want to die but you're playing because it's fun. Fun was the reason you even wanted to get good enough to 1cc. And moving past the 1cc, you're not done with a game just because you 1cc it. This elitism where you're not shit unless you 1cc a game is something that really shouldn't be isn't the norm inside the community proper.

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>>3642939
[ ͡ o ___> ͡ o]
go away

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>>3642937
>guys, shmups were only popular in Japan! People only care about 1cc! the west hated shmups!

I didn't say any of those things. Shmups were more popular in Japan though and of course serious players were trying for 1ccs like with most arcade games.

I don't even have MAME on my computer....

>>3642939

>I know more about retro games than the people who were actually alive back then, because they're nostalfags and I'm a true hardcore gamer!

Sure thing, timmy.

>>3642947
Of course fun is the point and different people have different measures of what's fun. But the games were designed to be the most fun when you're not dying so they push you to improve till you can beat the whole game that way.

>>3642953

Why did you tak a picture of your dad's DOB?

>>3642961
0/10

If you were really born in 82 you should be able to make an argument without having to resort to making up random shit about the people you disagree with and then claiming that as some kind of victory.

>>3642959
>>3642959
In 50 years historians will know much more about your times too, get used to it autistic manchild

>>3642936
I won't say better since I haven't played the game he's talking about, but Raystorm, force, and crisis were great. Another example of games I heard before I played.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugN_zbb1tw8
Nobody can tell me they wouldn't go out and play the game immedieatly after hearing this. Well I guess many people could actually. I am a bit weird about what I hear.

>>3642960
Sure. But I'm not going to weigh somebodies worth as a fan based on their ability to 1cc a title. There are people I've met who have played a single title as their main title and continue to play that title. Naturally they have 1cc'd that, but even if they hadn't the years they have in this one game already puts them above somebody else who plays it to 1cc it and then never again.

>>3642971
>But I'm not going to weigh somebodies worth as a fan based on their ability to 1cc a title.

That's fine, but really your opinion of someone else's worth as a fan is as worthless and their opinion of your worth as a fan.

>>3642976
Then if you agree and I agree, what the fuckity fuck are we arguing about

>>3642967

Haha, wait, you are comparing yourself to historians?
you're trying to tell us that just because you discovered an old genre that was popular with normies in the 80s (something that you didn't know, since you thought the genre was always obscure and japan-only), that means you're more knowledgeable than the people who actually lived those times?

Come on.

It's simple, if you were alive during the 80s, and were old enough to be able to go to the arcades and play games, you know shmups were normie as fuck. In fact, videogames were normie as fuck in general except for real nerd stuff like text-only role playing games on computers.

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>>3642365
As far as PS1 shmups are concerned, I gotta go with Delta. But Einhander, G-Darius, and Gradius Gaiden are all great too, so it was hard to choose.

>>3642981
>what the fuckity fuck are we arguing about

I'm trying to figure that out too. You seem really mad about something though.

>>3642990
Profanity is about 80% of my diction at this point. If you're the original post I responded to then I apologize for coming off so rude.

>>3642996
>Profanity is about 80% of my diction at this point.

And are you the guy claiming to be born in '82? Why are you still talking like a hormonal teenager? It makes it really hard to take anything you write seriously.

>>3643003

'82 guy here, I'm not the one you're replying to right now.

You are still a retard baby for thinking shmups weren't popular with normies in the west during the 80s.

>>3642982
I'm just letting you know how retarded your logic sounds. Arcade gaming declined and that's a fact, shmups sales and popularity declined and that's a fact, your nostalgic experience in your shitty local arcade will not change that

>>3643006
>You are still a retard baby for thinking shmups weren't popular with normies in the west during the 80s.

I was saying the opposite of that though...

>>3643007

Yes, anon, everything declines over time. You aren't exactly discovering TNT.

What people are trying to tell you is that posing as a elite "hardcore" gamer and use "normie" as an insult is ironic because the very genre you think to be cult/only for real gamers or whatever was once one of the most popular genres among normies.

You aren't anything special for 1cc'ing some games, you just have a lot of free time, or choose to use your free time to do that, which isn't wrong at all, but you aren't better than anyone else for doing so, and especially not better than the oldfags who were playing shmups in the actual arcades in the 80s, to whom you refer to as "nostalfags" as an insult, on /vr/ of all boards.

>>3642365
>most comforting

what is wrong with you "le cum fee XD le upboat" faggots? go back to >>>/reddit/

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What is it about this genre that brings out the worst in people?

>>3643040
>was once one of the most popular genres among normies
Yeah for like 3 years. What's funny though is that you got triggered so stupidly, I was simply saying that Ikaruga was more popular among normalfags ("normal people" for your fragile pussy), while Battle Garegga is well known among fan of the genre, thus not as popular, then you started all this stupid shit, worst thing is you are 34 yo.

>1cc hardcore gamer blabla
I'm not the same guy who was talking about 1ccs and shit, cool boogieman tho.

>>3643121
It's just two people at this point shitting up the thread with their off topic bickering. I thought I started this really strong too.

>>3642374
Non-danmaku horizontal SHMUPS have soul in spades.

Vertical SHMUPS are incapable of having soul though.

>>3643123
>Yeah for like 3 years.

Wat. Nevermind the rest of your post was equally stupid, but wat.

>>3643135
But every time I ever click on one of these threads it's always the same. Is it just two guys who can't stand each other and never give up? Is this the text baords 2.0 with Bocce and 4TC trolling each other forever?

>>3643138
t. horicuck

>>3643159
>Vertical SHMUPS are incapable of having soul though.
While I typically agree, Under Defeat has a soul. So much soul that it expires along with the main characters when you finish a run.

>>3642365
>Not best as in die hard difficulty, impossible to play.
lmao look at the baby who can't even get a shitty 1cc, people are scoring in shmups for decades and you can't give a game some fucking respect by investing 15-50 hours to 1cc it?

The only shump I was willing to get into was Radiant Silvergun. Everything else feels like lazy, uninspired garbage.

>>3643175
I know what you're doing and you should feel ashamed of yourself.

>>3643174
>Taking the lightly salted bait

>>3643184
It's true though, the shumps I've tried are boring while I could put 100+ hours into Silvergun. It's just that amazing, m8, playing it spoiled me.

>>3643148
>"I play games repeatedly until they become muscle memory, because WOOTWOOT high scores!"

>>3643174
>investing 15-50 hours to 1cc it
>not 1ccing in 1 hour
shiggy diggy

>>3643204
B-B-BUT IT'S TOO SLOW AND THE SCORING IS S-SHIT!!!

F-F-F-FUCK OFF TREASUREFAG

>>3643206
And this doesn't apply to hori because...?

>>3643207
>not 1ccing in 1 hour
shmups are usually 25-50 minutes long, git gud son.

>>3643210
Whoa, take a chill pill laddy, it's just my opinion. You can still enjoy whatever it is you're into and such.

>>3643213
sorry famalam it was truxton ii

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>>3643148
2hard4u

>>3643265
>save-states garbage
lol

and Gradius III isn't any more difficult than Raiden II or Tatsujin Oh

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>>3643273
>and Gradius III isn't any more difficult than Raiden II or Tatsujin Oh
>isn't more difficult than Tatsujin Oh
>Tatsujin Oh

Anyways not the guy you're responding to

Horis provide a comprehensive experience from the beginning until the end. Beating a game is reward enough (like finishing a good book or movie) that you don't need to go for something as inane and time-wasting as a high score. The fact that most people play verts for the high score is proof that verts rely more on gimmicks and exploiting autistic manchildren's OCD-like behavioral problems.

Horis strive to provide something new and original through the introduction of completely new game mechanics never seen before in previous games in the genre. Verts provide the exact same bullet dodging mechanics each and every time.

Horis evolved with every single year of new releases, so much so that you can take two random horis from two different years and they'll have distinct differences. OTOH, take two verts from two different years and they'll be the same damn thing, just dodging bullets with inconsequential backdrops.

Horis have something called actual LEVEL DESIGN. The backgrounds are interactive and actually relevant to the game mechanics. The backgrounds provide an actual threat and obstacle and challenge to the game. Verts DON'T and the backgrounds are completely irrelevant.

Horis' weapons are closer to 'tools' used for problem-solving. Verts' weapons are just bullets in a variety of different cosmetic forms that do the same thing.

Horis' tend to reward problem-solving. Simply dodging bullets isn't everything. You need to figure out what is the right tool to use for specific situations.

Verts? Just shoot and dodge, nigga. Nothing but pure memorization, no problem-solving at all.

Horizontal shmups have souls.

Vertical shmups are soulless.

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>>3643353
>verts don't have level design

Get a load of this faggot.

>>3643369
You're not exactly proving him wrong.

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>best shmups thread
>ctrl + f ketsui
>nada

let's fix that shall we

>>3643379
I certainly do like Ketsui's music. Blacks music is equally good The arrange is good too and is probably the best version of all themes.

As a game itself though, despite the setting I tend to have problem distinguishing cave shmups from each other. So I honestly can't say I have particularly fond memories of the game outside of the setting and music. Still that somebody likes this game the most to say it contends as one of the best in the genre is endearing. Not bad anon.

Does anybody actually like these games or are they just a funny meme to troll people with

>>3643353
why did this hori vs verti autism war even started? i enjoy both and score in both.

>>3643407
it's only one autistic kid in need of attention

>>3643386

Don't think you can fawn this much without actually liking the game you're praising.
>>3642576
>>3642579
>>3642581

>>3643375
Have you played it? BW has branching paths depending on how you interact with the level designs.

>>3643447
Does it? My memory has gone to shit recently because reasons but, I don't remember it seeing environments that were all important all the time like, for example, r-type delta. I'll take your word on it m8.

>>3643458
Yeah. It's possible for verts to have level designs, it's just that most devs prefer smart enemy placements and complex scoring systems instead, as those have greater replay value than mostly static environments that are easy to navigate through for experienced players.

Blazing Lazers is my favo. The same team made one for SNES, it's pretty fucking rad as well.

>>3643476
I will say that I prefer scoring. But that said, I'm pretty much going to be forever biased to Border Down. That has everything I need.

>>3643353

Well said my man. Hori master race

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Guy's stop this hori vs vert we all know that you can just flip your screen :^)

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I like both verts and horis, but my fav ones are the non-typical ones: multidirectional, twin stick, arena, etc.

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>mfw Image Fight is a better hori than any actual hori
verts always win baby

>>3642365
Tyrian 2000 because mustard rice.

Also MUSHA, Vapor Trail, 19XX series, Raiden series.

>>3643524
what game is this?

>>3643802
ガンスパイク

>>3642374
Stop playing Touhou and play some real games, you'll see some fantastic attention to details.

>>3642374
I disagree, the quest for constant self improvement the genre makes me go for gives it more soul than most games play.

>>3642770
Man, I gotta get this game's flyer as a poster, If there's a shmup that has soul it's Rayforce, the game truly feels alive in a way I've never seen in any other shmup, the "Mission Complete" at the end always makes me feel satisfied.

>best graphics
No.

Play Galaga.

>>3643476
>enemy placements
That's what level design is, don't be retarded.

>>3644426
not in that context. anon was talking about walls and stuff which many verts lack

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Raiden II Remix

If not, then Giga Wing.

>>3644436
>walls and stuff
most bullets in danmaku are walls, they aren't intended to kill you but to limit your movement.

MUSHA for Sega Genesis and Robo Aleste for Sega CD for me.

>>3644901
You can bomb bullets, but you can't bomb structures. Plus bullets can be misdirected and streamed, making them easier to deal with. It's not really a similar comparison.

>>3643992
>2hu
>bad
nice meme

>>3642697
Amen

>>3642770
I felt like such a boss when I finally completed it on the Saturn

>>3642697
>no level design
it's trash desu

>>3642797
Fuck, I remember the first time I got to the music change in stage 4. It's a major shit just got real moment in the game.

>>3642984

That stage was the realest shit, and I thought that the previous stage was pretty god damn real. Seeing the launch bay at the final part of the stage really nailed it for me.

>>3646391
do you mean the lack of changing background art, I don't give a fuck the flow of enemies and the pattern of bullets is second to none.

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Pic related was a pretty fun shmup for me, idk if it was shit or not

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>>3642365
For me, it's a tossup between RayForce and G-Darius. Absolutely amazing presentation and music, cool stages, and good challenge that's consistently hard even when you're familiar with it without feeling oppressive.

I think RayForce is a more tightly designed game in terms of level design and enemy placement/patterns, so it might edge G-Darius out (although, G-Darius focuses more on the really, really cool boss fights it has). G-Darius' branching system adds a hell of a lot of replayability, but you can tell they couldn't put quite as much love into each individual stage due to the amount.

>>3642697
CRS is an absolute joy. I wouldn't say it's the best anything, but it's got nice spritework, really cool music (was one of the few game OSTs I listened to outside the game regularly), and rather decent stages. Kind of really wish the background would change between stages, even if it was just changing color, but that's a really minor nitpick.

absolutely love the sort of proto-danmaku patterns it has, very fast and frentic, a lot like Dangun Feveron in that regard

it hands out 1ups like candy though, and there are a lot of little things I dunno if the dev really thought through
and for a game that's kind of sort of not really but close enough named after autofire (or rather, a term that's really closely associated with it), it doesn't fucking have autofire
sure, it's certaintly satisfying to press the button quickly and all, and IIRC the dev specifically said that was the reason it didn't have autofire

but sometimes your hand needs a break

>>3642936
absolutely not
but RayStorm is still pretty fucking cool

like, Taito really fucking knew what they were doing

>>3642440
>Genesis
enjoy your ear rape

>>3648791
>enjoy your ear rape

nah, the Thunder Force series has actually good music with reasonable FM patches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBnLUqJvRD0

>>3648791
Except most arcade shmups used FM too and had great music? retarded kid

>>3648829
Ignore our resident Sega hater, he's known for being not the bright type.

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>Entire thread
>No Donpachi or DoDonpachi

Seriously guys.

>>3643265
i really want to see a tas of this where they build a dick and then die

>>3648979
>Donpachi or DoDonpachi
cave shit

>>3642374
Found the pleb.

>>3642374
This, it's a dead genre for a reason.

>>3648979
Seriously what?

>>3643381
>I tend to have problem distinguishing cave shmups from each other.
That's because you're a shit player that hasn't experienced the depth and variety of challenge throughout mastering the routing and scoring systems of the games, I know you'll never invest the time required so i won't bother but if you did you'd soon see just how different they all are.

>>3642365
>Any system, best as in best controls, most comforting, best graphics.
Subjective but for me it's Guwange, it controls perfectly, has super original and interesting mechanics, stunning to look at and listen to, a super high ceiling for skill development and the only shmup i'm yet to ever get bored of grinding away at it. Very sad that only 2 of us in the west have any level of competency in the game because everyone else is a dumb pleb cunt that can't into figuring anything out.

>>3649072
Nice try kraut but i see through you.

>>3649291
No it isn't, it has without question a small but the most dedicated players imaginable. It's only natural for complex things of high difficulty to always be niche, literally everything that's super popular in the world is extremely basic for low i.q talentless lazy primitive wastes of air cunts like you.

>>3649298
Someone's butt blasted.

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Compile make games exclusively for home playing and i love their.

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>>3649296
>hasn't experienced the depth and variety of challenge
Sure you're right. I've never attempted to play for the sole purpose of scoring in most Cave games in general. An exception being Espgaluda II but I'm bad so that doesn't matter.

>variety of challenge
Maybe so, but despite the difference in games like Espgaluda, while they are fun to an extend mind you, it still just feels like a "cave shooter". I guess mentally an exception can be drawn naturally Deathsmiles or ESP Ra. De and Akai Katana.

But when you get to games like Ketsui, Ibara (or "i want the garegga audience), Daifukkatsu, Mushihimesama, Muchi Muchi Pork I know they have differences at the level they're supposed to be played (for scoring). But I don't care. On a side note I have never played Pink Sweets but I did import the album when it came out for the arrange tracks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkAp1GJWyoI

When I want to play a shmup I'm simply looking for something different. I'll throw Salamander 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeHHncJiqRs
in and have infinitely more fun than if I went back to running Espgaluda. I've been playing that and Border Down on and off for years and will probably still be playing Border Down by the time most people stop playing shmups in general.

Isn't "fun" the end goal here?

>>3649298
hi cee

>>3649349
>Isn't "fun" the end goal here?
kinda. but for me, getting 1cc's stopped being interesting after several months of playing shmups.i still score only where my skill allows it, which is usually not late levels where i just survive, but ignoring the scoring completely is just missiong out on fun imo, even if it can butcher your whole run on the first level. hope i'll find a game where i'll be willing to score for real.

>>3649635
>hope i'll find a game where i'll be willing to score for real.
I just run Border Down. Coincidentally, despite playing this game since it's come out on and off for years I still haven't got to a place where I'd be comfortable doing a solid border Red run and trying to score with the best of them. To that end I still haven't even scratched the surface of the more challenging Remix mode.

The stuff I've seen people do in superplays is nuts. For instance, I've never gotten to the final version of stage 6 on this difficulty on this border.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyCqxNEiitc

>but ignoring the scoring completely is just missing out on fun imo
Realistically I just play for the joy of playing the game. There's ain't a lot more I can say that I haven't already said at the start of the thread. That said, I can to an extent agree with this. When I'm in the mood to score, I do that, but the entirety of my fun just comes from it.

I think if you really really really like a game you'd be fun playing it in all kinds of ways.

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This is my favourite horizontal shmup.
That second stage music is just so calm
especially without the robot fart noises :^)

midi is hip right guys?...

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>>3642374
bro do you even icycalm

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Raptor on PC is a nice game

>>3648979
agreed, shameful display

>>3649663
i guess you(and me to a lesser extent) are just having fun fucking with that old game, while supeplayers marry their games, taking their relationships with the game on a whole new level that is beyond fun.

>>3648979
Lmao cave is even more overrated than treasure