Which is the superior retro 3D Sonic platformer, /vr/?

>>3598630

Sonic Adventure 2 is by far the superior game. The first one had the horrible Big and Amy stages, and the level design was kind of a clusterfuck. The only real bad part of SA2 on the Dreamcast was that it didn't have the radar on the Knuckles/Rouge levels that was later added to the GCN port.

imo barring the story, sonic adventure 2 is the best sonic game just in general

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>>3598630
The one that lets you play as the Good Doctor, of coursh.

Sonic Adventure is a 1/10, while Sonic Adventure 2 is a 4/10.

I'm torn. SA1's music and level variety are superior. SA2's gameplay is a little tighter. They're both good.

>>3598663
YOSH

2 by FAR. Three gameplay styles that work well is far better than six that hardly work at all. Adventure has a couple things going for it though, like slightly better music and a story that isn't totally B-movie tier.

>>3598651

>Didn't have the radar

I played it on the Dreamcast and it definitely had the radar, how else would you beat the stages? Do you mean that it could pick up multiple emerald pieces instead of one at a time on the GC?

>>3598651
Gameplay wise Sonic Adventure 2 aged better but overall I gotta with Sonic Adventure being superior

>>3598709

Yeah, I meant it didn't have the ability to track all three.

>>3598678
(You)

The Sonic levels in SA2 are fun as fuck for score attack gameplay, more so than any other Sonic game. Chaining together homing attacks and light dashes, doing tricks off ramps and rails, stage gimmicks like the hoops in Pyramid Cave, and a whole bunch of secret bonuses. It's a great scoring system.

Did you know that if you collect every ring in any stage, you'll get an A rank? No matter how long it takes.

>>3598708
2 fucked up every gameplay style though.

Sonic's has a lot of holding forward sections, rails, and the delay before spin dashing. It's not that bad honestly, but a noticeable downgrade.

Knuckles' has a fucked up radar which only gets worse with the large/segmented levels.

The mechs are sluggish, especially when making sharp turns.

Also, the levels in 2 are very copy and paste. Most levels have corridors or rooms that look identical to a corridor or room you've already gone through. Adventure 1's levels are unique all of the way through (with maybe one exception like Final Egg.)

>>3598948
Care to explain otherwise? The gameplay is awful, and Sonic Adventure 1 is a terrible adaptation of Sonic in 3D. Sonic Adventure 2 fixes some of the poor gameplay aspects of the 1st, but the gameplay holds your hand way too much, it feels like you're playing a movie. Also, retarded tails stages.

>>3598630
SA2 for sure.

SA takes itself too seriously, really. I love to see SA2 like a no-brain rollercoaster. SA2 is the Michael Bay of the saga.

>>3599036
>gameplay is awful
subjective
>Terrible adaption of Sonic in 3D
that was Sonic 3D blast
>holds your hand
Opinion

>retarded stages
Opinion

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>>3598630
Why does Sonic looks like a bully on these covers? Like he were offering me a cigar.

>>3599997
It's that smirk.

>Psst, hey kid, ever snort Chaos Emerald dust?

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>>3598630

>>3599987
Well I did play the DX version on PC, which is supposedly more buggy. Did you play the original? The story is fanfic-tier, the music is cheesy as hell, the gameplay is all about auto-target. Also, how is what I said about sa2 opinion? Half the time you're either doing something stupid like riding a skateboard or watching a cutscene of him running around a loop-de-loop. And there's no way you can tell me those tail stages were fun, all you did was wait for platforms and mash the a button to shoot people

>>3600040
>half the time
>you're riding skateboards or watching cutscenes for 15 hours
Nah
>the music is cheesy
What does that even mean? Rhetorical question.
>there's no way you can tell me fun is subjective
Actually there's many ways I can tell you that fun is subjective.

>>3598630
SA2 is definitely superior, but I enjoy them equally.
...however, some of the stages in SA2, especially the last ones for each character, but ESPECIALLY for Shadow, can be pretty annoying to A rank. Also I feel like Shadow needed at least one more stage and the bounce ability.

All in all both are excellent games and I consider them to be the only 3D Sonic games that aren't garbage. And don't give me that Colors and Generations shit, I'll have none of it. Useless games. They did it right on the Dreamcast and having ported the games to more recent platforms and PC was the best thing to happen to Sonic ever since (besides Mania coming up next year).

>>3598998
>Adventure 1's levels are unique all of the way through (with maybe one exception like Final Egg.)
That's just not true. All the levels were designed for Sonic, then clearly stripped down for each individual character and changed to fit their individual play styles. Example: the pool area in Twinkle Park, for Sonic he's only there for a couple seconds. Amy needs to go around it to push buttons and then she leaves into an area Sonic doesn't visit. Big just fishes Froggy out of the pool and leaves.
Another example: Casinopolis. The main area is repeated for Knuckles, and you never leave it. Sonic needs to use the pinball machines and can go into the underground area. Tails only goes through the underground area.

Each level might be unique on its own for Sonic, but all characters go through the same levels in loose segments with just minor changes done to them. Meanwhile in SA2, every character truly has their own unique level, barring only a few shared assets/textures/themes to make the progression feel more connected between Hero and Dark sides.

ROLLIN AROUND AT THE SPEED OF SOUND

>>3598630

I much preferred the first. I'm surprised everyone seems to like the second better. The part in level 1 when the killer whale is breaking the dock behind you one of the most iconic moments on the system.

>>3600353
Sadly that part is the only thing the game has going for it.
The rest is unbearable.

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Sonic World

>>3600340
That's a good point. When I said level I meant the actual location, not each character's visit as a separate level.

>>3600371
>The rest is unbearable.
That's no good!

>>3598630
I prefer Sonic Adventure 1's music, stages, different characters/playstyles, hub world, story and Sonic's overpowered spin.

Sonic levels in SA2 are cool (well, most of of them) but getting emblems for these stages removes fun.
Knuckles levels in SA2 are unnecessarily big and nerfing the radar was a mistake. Pumpkin Hill is the only stage I've enjoyed.
Tails levels in SA2 are simply retarded, go for too long and control like shit.
Car races don't need a comment. No one should defend this shit, it's atrocious.

I had more fun with Amy and Big stages in SA1 than Knuckles and Tails stages in SA2, to be honest. I was able to 100% them at least.

>>3599987
Good job. That's the point of this thread, presenting our opinions.

I disliked how SA2's story mode forced you to play as different characters. Should've stuck with SA's model where you choose a character that you stick with till the very end of his story. Also instead of making edgy Sanic and batslut, Sega should've stuck with the original plan of only Sonic, Knuckles and Eggman being playable.

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xYCNQVIA-xg

>>3600331
>And don't give me that Colors and Generations shit, I'll have none of it.
Jeez, what do you have against Colors and Generations?

>>3600371
Well, I can bear it.

>>3600826
Sure. Somebody trying to present opinions as objective fact is not the point of this thread.

>>3600932
>"Sure. Somebody trying to present opinions as objective fact is not the point of this thread."
>Sonic thread.
Good fucking luck...

SA, the rail grinding in SA2 pissed me off.

>>3600943
>>3600932
I know deep in my heart Sonic Adventures is genuinely bad. Auto-target ruined the game and level design is arse. Knuckles stages paddes the game out in a way that doesn't mesh well with the game itself. They should've made that a multiplayer mod, and have Knuckles traverse the level, you know, like an actual 3D platformer. Also, bosses are broken at times. Just admit it, Sonic Adventures has aged terribly.

funny how the chao garden is the best part of these games

>>3599987
>>Terrible adaption of Sonic in 3D
>that was Sonic 3D blast

Fucking underage furryfag piece of shit.

Sonic 3D Blast is the ONLY good Sonic 3D game (even if not fully 3D), you and your Fanfiction Adventure shit that ruined Sonic can go fuck yourselves.

It is like this has actually become /v/ or something, for fucks sake.

>>3598630
Neither.

>>3599997
He is friendly, with 90s tude.

>>3598630
Adventure 2 had a much improved chao garden and a way better mission system. Adventure 1 gives very little incentive to continue playing, while adventure 2 has A ranking all the missions which feeds back into the chao garden.

Adventure 1 is a better game to just sit and playthrough once though, even the shittier characters like big have relatively short campaigns so they never get tedious, and the knuckle levels are way better.

They're both kind of terrible but at the time they were good, to use the cliche they have "aged badly"

>>3601179
I played Sonic 3D Blast when it came out you stupid mouth breathing autistic fuck. I purchased it with my own money. I didn't like it then but I still beat it several times and played it years after that. I haven't played it recently so I don't know if my opinion changed. I did like Sonic Adventure.

If somebody having a differing opinion is all it takes for you to lose your shit then you should take your own advice and fuck right the fuck off to /v/.

>>3601286
That makes it even worse, because being a stupid kid can be acceptable to some degree, you don't know any better.

But no, you are an adult who played several times the only 3D game that feels like the classics, and you dare to say that is "bad" like most idiots, and on top of that Sonic Adventure is "good", you are a depraved oldfag with shit taste, congratulations in proving you are worse that I actually thought.

And don't get me wrong, I finished SA1 and found it 'acceptable' (SA2 was barely playable in comparisson), but I hardly recognize it as a Sonic game, its one of the shittiest transitions to 3D ever made, up there with Castlevania 64 and MegaMan Legends (I bet you like that garbage as well).

Good bye neo /vr/

>>3600907
>Yo pass the aux cord

Anyways, I believe SA2 is the superior OVERALL game.
>better replayability
>more natural controls (even its clunkyness feels fun to master, but that's a bit subjective)
>You can play as YOSHI
>Fucking.Chaos.Man.
>Dat music (algo subjective)

To be honest, I believe SA1's level design is superior, since its a less linear, open world, but the repetitiveness from character to character waters it down.

Also, I think shadow's story was the best, if you just take it for what it is.
Imagine if that was actually his last game, and he died in SA2 as he was clearly intended to, and never appear again the nostalgia from just watching the cover would elevate to infinity.
and then sonic generations bringing him back for only 1 battle and no other cutscenes would be tear-inducing

>>3601767
>Imagine if that was actually his last game, and he died in SA2 as he was clearly intended to, and never appear again the nostalgia from just watching the cover would elevate to infinity.
>and then sonic generations bringing him back for only 1 battle and no other cutscenes would be tear-inducing

Nice fanfiction fetiche my furfag friend, never change :^)

die

>>3598630
The one with the chao garden

>>3601750
>and you dare to say that is "bad"
Because that's my opinion
>and on top of that Sonic Adventure is "good"
Because that's my opinion
What kind of shitty life do you live that somebody having a differing opinion than you shatters your own perception of reality. Hell you don't even give counter statements to support your opinions, you just jump straight to your autistic tirade that talks about nothing. That said, you wanna leave? Be my guest. A shame people like you never actually do leave.

>>3598630
SA1 is too unpolished for its own good, and the alternate gameplay-styles are either way too shallow or just plain suck ass. SA2, while it still has some issues with polish, is still polished enough to be able to enjoy consistently, and the gameplay has more depth and challenge, and is more fun in my opinion.

>>3602301
But they both have that (SA2's is better).

>>3602348
I stated my argument and the rest is in this topic.

Your opinion is wrong.

3D Blast is good because is the only one that resembles the classics (the good games).

SA is a shitty transition to 3D with shitty clunky controls, shitty story, the most awful voice acting ever, lame stupid cutscenes that are fucking pointless, it doesn't deserve to be called Sonic.

You are the kind of people that is cancerous to this board, you like shit? That is great, but shit is shit regardless of your taste.

>muh all opinions are valid everything is subjective we all special snowflakes

Ok enough, got bored.

Enjoy your "valid opinions"

>>3602576
>your opinion is wrong
Can't be wrong. It's an opinion

Didn't read the rest of your post.

>>3602576
>3D Blast is good because is the only one that resembles the classics (the good games).
Excuse me? It has flickies and similar level themes.
That's it. It's not enough to somehow make it as good as the classics.

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I've played them both to a pulp over many years and I still love both of them.
Adventure 1 was very experimental. Adding extra characters with very different gameplay styles from Sonic (sans Tails since they were just racing stages). It made parts of the games very strenuous like some of Knuckles' stages and all of Big The Cat. But what I liked about the the level design was the fact that because there was only 11 levels in the game that were shared between the six characters, it catered to all six gameplay styles, where in some parts you could go fast as Sonic or explore with Knuckles, etc. That being said, the game has aged a bit poorly. Especially the Dreamcast version with its weird character models and textures. Also the voice acting is cheesy and borderline laughable. That goes the same for character animations and expressions.

Adventure 2, in my opinion has aged less than it predecessor and has more replay value. Doubly so for the the improved Chao garden. It's more memorable, too. The cutscenes are more expressive and over the top. That opening scene that leads into City Escape is burned into my mind to this day. The voice acting and character animations are a lot better here, too. But the game also has it's fair share of problems. For one I think that the game is more linear than Adventure one. Which is fine, seeing that instead of sharing levels between 6 characters, Adventure 2 has stages created specifically for the character playing it. Then there's the repetitiveness of the gameplay. Sonic is exactly like Shadow, Tails like Eggman, and Knuckles like Rouge. Really the only difference are their levels and the character itself, which is honestly just cosmetic. Adventure 1 felt more creative gameplay wise.
So really it's up to preference. I don't believe one is superior to the other but my personal favorite is Adventure 2.

>>3598630
Sonic Adventure 2.
Don't get me wrong, I love Sonic Adventure, but I just enjoy 2 more. I play both these games at least once every year and I never get tired of playing them. Theres a few reasons I like 2 more than the first one, one being the lack of the overworld. I don't have any problems navigating the overworld in adventure but it just seems pointless and just something that showed off the Dreamcast graphics. I prefer the soundtrack as well (especially Rouge's stages), and just generally better sound effects. And the lack of Big is an obvious reason

>>3601750
Wow, you sure proved his personal preference wrong. What a badass

>>3602592
No dude, you're missing the fact that this guy's opinion is always right and that if anyone disagrees then they are just unfixably wrong.

>>3600372
Why didn't they just do Xtreme like this?

>>3602721
Because Naka was a faggot and didn't wanna share his NiGHTS engine with baka gaijins.

>>3602585
A game being good or bad is a fact.

If you like a bad game, that is great.

>>3602592

I didn't say "as good", I said is the only one that resembles the original trilogy, precisely because the design of the levels and general mechanics are similar, meaning, the most important part of the game, what else do you want?

The same can't be said about SA, it has nothing from the previous games and practically started the "Sonic gotta go fast" meme, when previously to that the game was always about momentum, its easier to speedrun in any Super Mario game than the earlier Sonic games.

>>3602715
See above (still haven't heard an argument about a single good thing in SA btw), and "I like it" or "I think is good and is my opinion" doesn't count as one.

>>3602851
>a game being good or bad is a fact
That's false. "Good" or "bad" in a game is based on opinion and preference. Didn't read the rest of your post.

>>3598630
Mario 64 > any Sonic adventure

>>3598651
>The first one had the horrible Big and Amy stages, and the level design was kind of a clusterfuck.
The second one had the horrible Knuckles, Rouge, Tails, and Eggman stages and the level design was a complete clusterfuck.

I also hated how Adventure 2 was only action stages. Adventure broke up the action stages with adventure sections where you could go at your own pace and explore. It made the game balanced in its pacing wheras Adventure 2 has a breakneck pace.

>>3602867
No, its not.

>>3602851
>A game being good or bad is a fact.
Can you define what makes a good or bad game good or bad? Can you give me a set of guidelines that will always make a game good or bad, and can you explain to me why this is definitive and inherent rather than a personal preference?

>>3602851
>precisely because the design of the levels and general mechanics are similar
3D Blasts's levels are flat, modular, exploreable areas. There are no high/low multiple paths like in the sidescroller games, you have to search the entire level looking for flickies.

The goal is no longer simply get from point A to B as efficiently as possible. It's an easter egg hunt.

On the other hand, SA's main gameplay is entirely based on running through levels with multiple paths trying to get from point A to point B as efficiently as possible.

It's almost like it's a 3D version of the classic games. What a surprise!

>>3602851
you can't just say "good or bad". I think what you are trying to do is differentiate between objective craftsmanship in game design, as opposed to the player's subjective reaction.

anyone can lay out some metrics and come to the conclusion that Metal Gear Solid is the greatest, or one of the top 10, Playstation games ever released. Anyone else can say they liked Barbie Pony Adventures more.

>>it's a matter of opinion. I like the first better, but I can't objectively deny the overall superior execution of the second.

>>3602851
>A game being good or bad is a fact.
I disagree. You can say a game is well made or well constructed, in a technical point, but that's pretty much it. Good or bad are generic words, they can mean anything from subjective experience to objective craftmanship.

>>3602964
I just realize I almost repeated what you said.

>>3598630
1. you could choose who to play as and when to play as them.

2. a massive step backwards, introduces shadow. everything goes to shit.

2 was the downfall of the series, I mean after that was considered acceptable we got heroes which was fucking terrible.

I AINT GONNA LET IT GET TO ME

IM JUST GONNA CREEP

DOWN IN PUMPKIN HILL I GOTS TO FIND MY LOST PIECE

>>3603380
>1. you could choose who to play as and when to play as them
You can do that in 2 as well, obviously. How is 2 a step backwards? Shadow isn't an argument, his levels are pretty dope.

>>3603387
He's talking about how you rotate between Sonic, Tails and Knuckles in the story mode, which was indeed shitty. I just wanna play as Sanic.

>>3602942
No, the original trilogy wasn't about speed.

Sure, if you save more time, you get a higher score, but that wasn't the point of the game, the point was to get as many rings as possible and get the emeralds, specially the first game, was never about speed, its almost unplayable to speedrun through the levels except maybe in Green Hill that is the easiest one.

Anyway, I get your point, but the way Sonic moves and the level design is way more accurate in 3D Blast, not being completely linear made it even better, If it had been a linear 3D isometric game it wouldn't have been as interesting, though probably still better than SA.

In SA when you are not fighting with those fucking broken controls, you are watching Sonic run almost by himself through the pathways because "may may Sonic gotta go fast!", and finishing the levels fast is actually a goal because it gives you a rating and otherwise the game gives you a D and tells you that you sucked, encouraging the "Sonic gotta go fast" bullshit in the underages of the moment.

This games FORCES you to go fast, nothing like the classics.

Hell, in games like Sonic Unleashed only the night levels are worth it, daylight levels are disgusting and broken (like every 3D Sonic game)

>>3602964
>anyone can lay out some metrics and come to the conclusion that Metal Gear Solid is the greatest, or one of the top 10, Playstation games ever released. Anyone else can say they liked Barbie Pony Adventures more.

Exactly my point, but no one gets it

>>3603325
>I disagree. You can say a game is well made or well constructed, in a technical point, but that's pretty much it.

That's what good or bad means. There are bad games that I like (I can have shit taste too), but I don't pretend they are good (what is worse, with no argument)

>>3603694
I have to admit though, that for example the Knuckles levels in SA2 are pretty nice.

And Tails levels are acceptable.

Too bad Sonic still sucks.

I like both, but I prefer 1. SA's character selection is less worse than SA2's.

But one thing they share in common is the perfect gameplay, because they behave exactly like 2D Sonic games: a balance between platforming and speed, with momentum-based physics. The only flaw I can think is the loops being automatized. It's not that I dislike the boost games, but I believe they have to focus only in speed. You could say Sonic Advance's series are basically Sonic Adventure 2D.

I think there's a fangame called Sonic Utopia which takes Adventure's gameplay and polish it.

>>3603765
*but I believe they don't need to

>>3603765
Nice bait

>>3603778
I didn't offend your favorite game, did I?

Or are you just disagreeing with me? I respect your opinion, but I would like to hear your counter points if you have any.

I agree with pretty much everything on this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPD7txITpxc

>>3603694
>That's what good or bad means.
Sure but what is good or bad is weighed on a scale based on previous games. The problem with this is that even professional reviewers opinions differ wildly when rating a game because what makes a game "good" is wildly dependent on personal taste. i.e; you wouldn't send somebody who hates opera to rate a performance no matter how good he is at covering sports

>what is worse, with no argument
Nobody is going to waste time forming any kind of coherent argument when you respond with the generic /v/ post of "you disagree so you're retarded"

Anyways:
>In SA when you are not fighting with those fucking broken controls, you are watching Sonic run almost by himself through the pathways
You mean the multi-layered pathways with multiple routes to get to the same end while also containing secrets in the levels?

> because "may may Sonic gotta go fast!",
Because going fast in a Sonic game is fun. But more importantly, it's going fast with solid controls and tight mechanics and momentum while simultaneously being able to exploit stage memorization to make it through a stage as efficiently as possible. This is complemented by the games similarities thematically.

Lastly:
>the original trilogy wasn't about speed.

Sure, but you were encouraged to make it through a stage as efficiently as possible and this was reflected by the weight of the score. Going back to your comment;

>Finishing the levels fast is actually a goal because it gives you a rating and otherwise the game gives you a D and tells you that you sucked, encouraging the "Sonic gotta go fast" bullshit in the underages of the moment.

The original trilogy did this to:
Go fast enough and the time bonus far outweighs the ring bonus. Which means mechanically, speed is more important than exploration (to an extent) in order to cap out your score.

And if you're saying "who cares about the score";
1) that argument applies to the letter grades you get
and
2) A true fan you are not

>>3600017
no wonder sonic goes fast