was he the strongest FF villain?

probably not, but he does exist in the void that is heavily implied to link all the FF games together, as shown by gilgamesh crossing into other games

I dunno, if you just swung an ax a few times he'd be dead before the whole thing started.

"Most powerful" is probably Kuja due to being purpose made to fuck shit up.

It's honestly probably sephiroth, he is the offspring of a galactic terror that is most comparable to the thing, and ends up merging with aspects of the planet/lifestream. So dangerous the planet itself creates super weapons to purge itself of him and it still didn't work.

I wish the game was more about jenova though and not what is essentially her corpse. She's basically dead and she still wields that much influence and power

Ultimecia is just because Time Kompression

I don't know if he was the strongest, but he was definitely the most one-dimensional. Truly he was just evil for evil's sake.

>>3536259
that was kind of the point considering he was just an amalgamation of criminals and murderers and shit

>>3536259
He was the incarnation of evil, he did nothing wrong

>>3536272
Somehow I missed that plot point.

No.
Kefka was.

>>3536282
It is in one of the exposition dumps. He is an amalgamation of evil spirits that were sealed in a tree.

>>3536121
Including secret bosses?

I would think Kefka, just for the sake he absorbed the power of 3 gods. And in battle you can switch between 12 characters just for his fight.

>>3536416
same thing happens for ultimecia in FF8

>>3536416
Yeah, Kefka clearly seems to be the winner.

I believe it was stated that he could just nuke a town if he felt like it.

At the very least, he demonstrated the most power. Sephiroth or Kuja may be more powerful, but they didn't really show it.

>>3536416
>>3536446
the same thing also happens in the bizarro sephiroth fight.
not saying sephiroth is the strongest, i just don't think that kind of thing is a good indicator.

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probably.
she's basically a force of nature and the only reason you can beat her at all story wise is because you're counterparts of darkness are weakening her.

>>3536214
>It's honestly probably sephiroth,

No it's not. Sephiroth couldn't do shit without summoning an ancient meteor to do the job for him.

Kuja was just BAM world gone
Exdeath was just BAM worlds gone

Seph wouldn't even make the top 10.

>>3536121
Seems pretty obviously Kefka. He actually succeeded in his goals. Hell, he actually destroyed the world.

>>3536753
i don't know if you can call what he did destroying the world, he did make it into a lawless magical mad max wasteland, but he definitely could have done much worse if he wasn't so damn crazy

>>3536737
exdeath had some control over the void, and he could have BAM world gone at any point but was incompetent, for something that wanted to cause all existence to cease he sure dillydallied long enough so that he could get defeated, even though he could destroy everything in the blink of an eye whenever

Kuja was a salty failure that also didn't do much, like exdeath his power was mostly there in theory and not practice, even fucking kefka managed to do some serious shit that had lasting consequences. Kuja doesn't get points considering terra was already dead anyway.

>>3536259
Trying to obtain ultimate power to become the worlds god king is a good enough reason.

>>3536285
Kefka had power over 1 planet.

Exdeath had the power of the infinite nothingness that exists between realities.

Chaos
Exdeath
Kuja

Those three in some order. None of the others come close. Conversely, The Emperor from FF2 is almost certainly this weakest

>>3537062
being able to become the ruler of hell is no small feat.
he probably is one of the weaker ones though.

I don't see how destroying an entire planet is an appropriate indicator of strength...what if a villain is strong enough to do that whenever they wish but simply don't because what's the point unless they're suicidal? Even Sephiroth didn't intend to destroy the planet, only wound it just enough, but it's very likely that he could have completely destroyed it if he wanted to.
Kuja was willing to destroy Terra because it outlived its usefulness, and was preparing to destroy everything. Then Kefka was a raving lunatic and probably the only one intent on destroying everything.

>>3537103
>Kuja was willing to destroy Terra because it outlived its usefulness, and was preparing to destroy everything
I meant to say that Kuja became suicidal when he learnt that he didn't have long to live, and he was likely hesitant in destroying everything, hence the long waiting period. Kefka was the only one intent on complete destruction from the start.

>>3536132
>link all the FF games together

God I hate how every franchise from my childhood is doing this now.

>>3537119
>now
the implications started as early as FF5 and reared its head first in FF6 with gogo

it wasn't until FF8 and 12 that gilgamesh started showing up and pretty much proved it was a thing

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>>3536416
>>3536459
If you're going to bring in game mechanics, you may as well just duke it out in Dissidia.

>>3537141
>prishe
it warms my heart that best girl is that high on the tier list

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Warmech is the strongest one

>>3537203
God damn I hate the PSP/iOS/Android sprites of the remakes.

Even the GBA ones looked less shitty

Exdeath has greater connection over the void than Cloud of Darkness who was at least a universe buster and Neo Exdeath himself would have destroyed a universe if not for being stopped by the FF5 cast. FF11 MIGHT have stronger villains but IDK anything about it

>>3537054
And what did he do with all that power, pray tell?

For that matter, was in that nothingness for him to have power over, pray tell?

Face it, exdeath was just a big gay tree that talked big shit but couldn't back it up.

>>3537315
FFXI's story is pretty out there with power levels, and the stories themselves can get a bit complex, it for sure has pretty powerful villains, but because its been so long since I've played it, I'm not sure where I'd rank them

But promathia was basically a god

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Sors immanis
Et inanis

this entire game reminded me of the neverending story

did it do that for anyone else? the 80's as fuck music when riding a dragon just kind of evoked that for me

>>3537042

Kuja pointed at a planet and made it go away. He's stronger. That's not fucking theory. He killed a planet.

and if you want to play salty, Seph was just some pissy faggot with an Oedipus complex

>>3537370
the problem is there is no point to the big bads having those kinds of power levels if they are just going to let themselves get beat anyway

kefka is the best villain because its established early in the game that he plays with his prey, and you don't even fucking see him after the world of ruin til you go to the final boss encounter, he is almost deified by that point as a god of wrath.

Kuja destroying terra shows off his power level but terra was a dead planet anyway, he then proceeds to just let himself get beat down like exdeath did, so who gives a fuck how strong he is when he is so fucking retarded?

Delita was the only successful FF villain.

>>3537392
He might have "won" but he lost everything he ever really wanted.

>>3537392
>Delita
>villain

I feel like you missed the fact that he was fighting the real villains on their own terms politically, parallel to Ramza beating their faces in physically (or magically, depending on how you classed him).

>>3537819
He was evil, just not as evil as most of the other villains in the game, such as killing and manipulating innocents so that he could rise to power.

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>>3537062
>The Emperor from FF2 is almost certainly this weakest
>The only guy you have to kill TWICE in the entire franchise
>That one guy who literally can't stay dead and conquered the entire afterlife alone
>That one guy who broke dimensions and quite literally brought Hell on Earth after conquering most of it before even getting to Hell in the first place
>weakest

>>3538464
he wasn't evil, he was a means to an ends type of guy, morally grey.

evil would imply that he killed people simply to kill people, or for some evil purpose like resurrecting some kind of demon god, just so he could kill more people

>>3538496
>The only guy you have to kill TWICE in the entire franchise
Chaos. Jenova. Algus (WOTL).

>>3538510
Seymour.

>>3538496
final fantasy 2 could benefit from a true remake, on the level of FF3 and 4s remakes.

keep the saga like system in place, but balance the game better around it, and tweak the magic so its not as obnoxious to deal with.

but mostly vastly improve the games dungeon design and flesh out the story, cause its story was pretty good for its time, and I'd love to see it expanded upon, as long as it didn't turn into animu cliche power level shit

>>3538510
Jenova doesn't really count. Killing one of her forms is more like hacking off a limb.

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Necron was literally death itself. You can't get more powerful than that.

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Tetsuya Nomura has already officially stated that Sephiroth is the strongest Final Fantasy villain. I remember when it erupted all over the internet and the collective rage of all the FF6 Kefka fans exploded over every video game forum with the intensity of a thousand suns.

"There is nothing stronger, nothing above him."

>>3538670
Did he actually have any logical basis for this? Or is he just putting Seph on a pedestal because he sells the most merchandise?

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>>3537392
dunno if you can call him a villain.
he became an asshole though.

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Delita is a chaotic good hero.

Questionable ethics and an "end justifies means" attitude. However, it was all for the benefit of his country.

>>3538841
No, he was a villain because all he cared about was power, just like the Church and the corrupt aristocracy.

>>3538690
Who knows? But the fact remains that the developers of Final Fantasy went ahead and solved the argument for everyone by announcing that Sephiroth > all others.

>>3537370
>Kuja pointed at a planet and made it go away. He's stronger.

You mean like Vegeta did in that filler episode of DBZ? And then got absolutely wrecked by someone who couldn't do that.

>>3539279
Wasn't this redacted when Toriyama outright said that guy from 13-2 was the strongest bar none because he said so or some bullshit?

>>3539447

That might've been true until LR in which Lightning ascends to literal godhood.

>>3538524
>as long as it didn't turn into animu cliche power level shit
you know it would, though

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>>3537121
>and reared its head first in FF6 with gogo

Please, we already know who Gogo is.

>>3538496
Mateus is the Frieza of Final Fantasy villains. He kills a shit load of no-names and refuses to stay dead but he's still kind of a bitch who got his teeth punched in in pretty much every fight he ever started.

>>3539527
Daryll?

>>3538505
You mean "means to an end", and the end was his personal benefit. Killing people and backstabbing and manipulating your friends for your own personal benefit is evil by pretty much any definition.

Killing people just to kill people or to resurrect an evil demon god is just being a mustache-twirling Saturday morning cartoon villain. I mean goddamn, by your logic neither Hitler nor Stalin would've been evil since they had political ambitions and reasons behind their actions (inb4 godwin). Hell, Jeffrey Dahmer wouldn't be evil by that logic; he wasn't killing people just to kill them, he was doing it because he wanted to make a zombie sex golem.

>>3539447
Can't find any sources from google on this. Sauce?

Definitely not the strongest villain, but he definitely has the best theme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWE0nlhpdq8

>>3539739
>Hell, Jeffrey Dahmer wouldn't be evil by that logic; he wasn't killing people just to kill them, he was doing it because he wanted to make a zombie sex golem
your point being

During the final fight with Sephiroth, he destroys the entire solar system with a single spell. Multiple times if you're slow.

>>3538670
Tetsuya Nomura is a faggot who introduced belts and zippers and whose opinion as an edgelord literally means nothing since all he did was terribly design a new age of characters. Fuck, Nobuo Uematsu's opinion carries far more weight in this regard.

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>>3539960
Yeah, look at all those zippers and belts!

Why are people saying Delita was evil?
He sought to tear down the constraints placed upon the common and poor citizens by the nobles and church. He needed power to do this, so he did everything necessary to attain that power. His goals for doing so were still rooted in a greater goal, and not for the purpose of entrenching citizens in a worse situation like the evil nature some of you are implying. He wanted change and went the only route he could assume would work, but the changes he wanted weren't much different from Ramza's. Manipulation and killing individuals came with the territory, it's not like Ramza's hands weren't stained with rivers of blood as well. A goal was set to bring the needed change, shit had to happen for good to occur.

>>3539739
yeah it was partially personal benefit, sparked by his sister dying, but really it was him cleaning out the corruption of the monarchy due to how they treated the lower class as slaves, how is he evil if he was eventually considered a benevolent ruler that basically fixed everything?

you can say revisionist history, I guess, but it was made clear that only thing revisionist in FFT was ramza's story basically being struck from the record.

delita was not evil and never was, he was more of an anti-hero, he only fought against the powers that be, and just because he was willing to sacrifice pawns (who were willing to sacrifice for him anyway), doesn't make him evil

>>3539960
nomura had worked on FF games as far back as FF5, and he was the primary designer of parasite eve which had none of the shit he was known for in KH.

I don't know what happened to him but he used to be a decent designer

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>>3540380
He's a great designer, don't listen to that salty meme-spewing retard.

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>>3541039
I recognize all the characters except the guy in the middle and the old woman. Who're they?

>>3541045
Clyde & Madeline are my guess

I know it's not retro, but can we agree that Vayne was the weakest?

>>3540205
A few designs that are "okay" and made after a superior designer's ideas do not make it okay for the sea of faggotry that followed it. Seriously, I can't believe that a serious person can ever stand in defense of his horrible portrayal of characters.

>>3540380
KH is nowhere close to his worst atrocities, but yeah. His sins run deep.

>>3542290
Because you got triggered that he gave Lulu a belt dress in FF10, we can just ignore the vast majority of the rest of his works that are well designed, huh?

>>3542335
Let's just go from FFX then which has it's share of faggotry.

The Bouncer is next. Right there on the goddamn title screen you have a guy(I think) that has a goddamn belt tied around his neck with chains on his pants.

Then you have FFX2, and Kingdom Hearts. One google search later will show you his superb design work and his importance in saying "Sephirothj is the strongest guys, seriously!"

His least offensive work is probably Musashi. Don't know what that says. Even the world ends with you is full of scarves, belts, zippers and androgynous faggotry. There is absolutely no worth to this man as being anything but a designer ( a shitty one, but I guess that is up to your own view on what is good design). Certainly not someone that is worth of saying who is where in terms of story in Square's games.

>>3542360
He designed for 5, 6, 7 and 8 too, but sure, let's gloss over those.

So, what was your problem with Kimahri? Tidus? Auron? Yuna? Wakka? Rikku? As far as I remember, the only one with an excess of "belts and zippers" was Lulu, which made her stand out.

I mean, give us all your example of 20 year old JRPG design that you consider sacrosanct. What's the standard here for you?

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>>3537370
Kuja isn't even the final boss

>>3542385
If you read the entire post you would see that I don't give a crap about his designs because that's subjective. I personally don't like them but hey, to each his own. What does trigger me is that his word is taken for anything serious about characters from games that he had little to do but again, do designs for.

>>3540205
beltanzippah didn't begin until late 5th gen.

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>>3542434
...but you're the one that brought his designs up in the first place.

>Tetsuya Nomura is a faggot who introduced belts and zippers and whose opinion as an edgelord literally means nothing since all he did was terribly design a new age of characters.

I mean, your entire argument for why he can't be an authority was that you disliked his designs, and now you can't even maintain that.

And let's remember it's not "all he did" either. He writes several of the stories for the characters and directs some of the entries. He's as much an authority as anyone is.

>>3542451
It was really more just a single non-Final Fantasy series in the 6th gen that got memed unbelievably out of proportion.

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>>3538524
>tweak the magic so its not as obnoxious to deal with.

how about this?
scrap the MP system and magic levels entirely
instead, spells are use based like in I and III
each spell you equip starts with 5 uses and the more you use it, the more its max number of uses increases
weak spells like fire will max out at 99 uses, while strong spells like ultima will max out at 9 etc.
spell power, effects and accuracy are fixed and are only affected by the users intelligence/soul