/Sa·Ga/

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OP has great taste in bots

>>3507610
You should add this to the Scarlet Grace OP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pc_2fLdAXw

Its all in moonspeak but its still footage

I think RS2 gave me PTSD.

>>3508025
Will do Anon, thanks for pointing this out.
>>3508350
It's normal, it's kinda like the Vietnam of the series, wanna talk about it?
Seriously though, if you have problems ask away.

>>3508586

Oh I've spent enough time whining about that game in these threads, I decided I would just play some of the other ones and come back to it when I'm a little more experienced.

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>>3508350
Listening to the Battle Arrange version of the Last Battle theme from RS2 alone makes me want to try and get into the game myself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgKHB_pfi7Q
>that moment when 3:16 hits
Sadly I dont think that pat iss actually in the game but its a great last battle theme even without it

On the subject of battle themes, Its genuinely hard to say which battle theme of the series is my favorite, they're all really good in their way
Right now, i'm really fond of RS2's music in general
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhCK6od2KHs

>>3509528

Yeah, I can't decide between Saga 2, RS2, RS:MS or SaGa Frontier's normal battle theme.

When it comes to boss and last boss themes I'd easily say the Seven Heroes battle theme and Asellus' last battle theme though.

>>3509707
Probably none of the above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTj4n0L9Uh0

>>3509707
Minstrel Song has excellent boss themes
I like the more common Soul of Fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOPBgn1fwRE

>>3509784
Comfy af
I need to get that game

>>3509802
>I like the more common Soul of Fire
I always found myself looking forward to the part of the game where you start hearing this theme the most
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZW8GgU3boE

>>3509784
A shame it's a god tier battle theme tied to a shit tier game.

I would pay top fucking dollar for another SaGa Frontier I or even II.

>>3510739
>A shame it's a god tier battle theme tied to a shit tier game.
A shame your taste is garbage, I bet you don't like Vagrant Story either

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>>3510742
>Unlimited SaGa
>good

Nigga, that game was almost universally panned, even by SaGa fans. Get real.

>>3510746
>being this much of a filthy casual
holy shit how can you even be this bad

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>>3510752
>game is considered shit by an overwhelming majority, including hardcore SaGa fans
>he didn't like the game, he must be a c-c-casual

Please anon. Keep it up.

>>3510758
>Other people believe something, and this has any bearing at all on the actual truth of a thing
Holy shit I bet you believe Jesus was real and the Holocaust really happened too

No, I kid, really though, tell me what you actually think about Unlimited SaGa that makes it bad

>>3510746

>implying you gave it an honest try

It's not a bad game, it's just weird and completely different from any other jrpg in almost every way.

>>3510767
Not him, can you say anything good about it? I thought about picking it up a few times but never got around to it. It looked like a board game with RPG elements which sounded potentially interesting but not quite enough.

Was my guess accurate? What are the good points that would entice me to play it? Literally all I know is it was odd and most people didn't like it.

>>3510775
So Unlimited SaGa is an RPG modeled after real life Pen and Paper RPGs; this is why it has things like Pick Locks and Swim and Eavesdrop specialties. It's about navigating dungeons and field areas section by section, the way a DM might say "The twisting passages of the cavern open into a large moonlit hollow, a shimmering painting covers the cave wall and some adventures belongings seemed to be scattered about near by."

In a typical RPG you would physical run your characters around the screen, through corridors and passage ways, open up into a room, and have to run around pressing a button to examine or interact with things. Unlimited just does away with that because it's essentially meaningless, you already have to be using you imagination when you play an rpg to figure that your party is walking around with you bantering or scouting out the area, or that your avatar is doing anything other than running around like an autistic robot rubbing his hands over everything in the room.

Unlimited just says, okay, so this is what your characters look like, what the room looks like, and it provides some fucking excellent artwork and music and ambient sounds and sound effects to fill the gaps. As a result, shit proceeds actually quite quickly and efficiently. You use skills or magic to search for treasure and monsters, you find magical dungeon gimmicks and switches and illusions and shit and figure out how to deal with them, you pick your battles with enemies and prepare your equipment and rotate your character line up and shit between.

People who don't like Unlimited just don't understand how to play it or can't deal with something that doesn't provide enough distraction to hold their vibrating chaotic mind with all it's ADHD and lack of imagination.

Actual complaints about Unlimited that I could accept would be things like "I dislike reels, they make my head/eyes hurt" or "I found panels too frustrating"

Personally I like the reels and panels.

>>3510775

Ultimately the issue is that it's very non standard. When people see an rpg, they instantly have very specific ideas of what it's "supposed" to be like. When anything in the game clashes with that preconceived notion, rather than try to understand and accept the game they just go "this is shit, it's NOTHING like FF or DQ or SMT" and give it shit ratings.

>>3509508
It's very emotional isn't it?
It's my favorite Last Battle theme together with SaGa 2, T260G's, Emilia's and SF2, it really captures the essence of ending a thousands years long battle with a powerful enemy, there's a distinct tone of sadness other final boss themes in the series lack, Asellus' LB theme might be the only similar one. Once you learn about the Seven Heroes' background by talking to Oaive and the people in the hidden village it becomes much better.
>>3509784
Hamauzu really made a tune for the ages there, Unlimited as a whole has a great soundtrack, most of the dungeon music is also super relaxing, perfect for slowly and carefully planning out a quest on a limited number of turns.
SaGa Frontier 2 isn't any less good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPC63TtQtjQ
>>3509802
>I like the more common Soul of Fire
That's pretty good, too bad it only plays for low tier bosses except that one Red Dragon during the Ifrit quest, isn't that one of the new tracks composed by Sekito? it doesn't really feel like Itoken's music.
I personally really like Chaos Labyrinth, it's a bit weird melody wise so not many people like it but that synth madness is just too good for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgIhC9M9IW8

>>3510796
Huh, that does sound like an interesting take. Glad I didn't buy it, but neat that it exists.

>>3510861
>Glad I didn't buy it, but neat that it exists
If you had, there was a point where you could have bought it for about 5 dollars.

Will I ruin myself for Romancing SaGa 2/3 if I play Minstrel Song first? Should I play some of Romancing SaGa 1 first to understand the advancements?

>>3510864
Naw.

It's better to start with RS3 or SaGa Frontier though. You'll probably like Minstrel Song more if it's not the first one you play.

>>3510831
Sounds like a marketing problem. I can understand someone wanting a certain type of game being disappointed that it's not what they were expecting or interested in playing.

>>3510863
Ohh I remember. I bought too many games for super cheap that I then barely played.

>>3510872
I'm gong in order so far, just got out of the second world in the WS SaGa 1 remake.

I have SaGa 2 on standby, and also already have Minstrel Song and WhatthefuckamIdoing SaGa on PS2.

>>3510892
You can probably skip SaGa 3 and RS1

>>3510864
I'd second this>>3510872
Also, you can't really ruin yourself when it comes to SaGa, most games play very differently from one another and almost always have many mechanics and design choices that are exclusives to each title.
>>3510876
>Sounds like a marketing problem.
It was to a degree, mostly because by that time it was obvious that Kawazu was basically making SaGa for the fans first and foremost instead of making something meant for a wider audience, Unlimited was a Wizardry IV kind of gamble, a fantastic, tremendously deep and elaborated game that greatly challenged the entire genre's philosophy but could be only appreciated by hardcore fans of the series or RPG connoisseurs, and just like Wizardry IV it was the least successful title in the series that garnered a small but die-hard fanbase.
It was more successful in Japan than in the west though, mostly because no matter what neckbeards say about them, japs actually care about gameplay when it comes to RPG and aren't scared by change.
See the reactions to Scarlet Grace, western audience bitched about graphics and LMAO no dungeons, japs were all wondering how would Kawazu work around the lack of dungeons first of all and then how much depth would there be in terms of events and system, kinda like people in this thread did.
Also, they really love Kawazu, when he appeared on the stream they were all typing 河津神(God Kawazu).
>>3510892
Skip the original SaGa 3 and play the DS remake, it's the actual black sheep of the series.

>>3510903
Don't forget that Unlimited SaGa was sold with the FFX-2 Demo Disc, leading to thousands of garbage tier asian girls and virgin teenage males sneering at the superior mechanics of the game.

>>3510903
I'm planning on it, I've heard the pains of SaGa 3 and how it's not a real SaGa game.

>>3510896
It's not worth trying RS1 for a bit just to see what it's like? I feel like knowing where it comes from might be good.

>>3510919
>Don't forget that Unlimited SaGa was sold with the FFX-2 Demo Disc
I completely forgot about that.
A kind of ZOE deal that one.

>>3510928
>It's not worth trying RS1 for a bit just to see what it's like? I feel like knowing where it comes from might be good.
It's extremely grindy and pretty bare

>>3510903
The biggest shame about Scarlet Grace is that it screams HEY LOOK AT ME I'M A SAGA GAME BUT IN 3D THIS TIME AND WITHOUT WONKY DOLLS FOR CHARACTERS. It's time to move the series forward and it's pretty clear Kawazu doesn't want to.

Not that I blame him, it's admirable how he got to keep his clout all these years.

>>3510928
>I feel like knowing where it comes from might be good.

If you go in with that kind of mindset, alright.

The deal with the SNES original is that there's a lot of jarring design problems, no dash function(though the Wonderswan port fixes that), too many monsters on most maps make the whole mechanic of no random encounter pointless, the weapon and Waza system, while fairly original for its time was extremely grindy and so on.

One other thing you might want to consider is that the first RomaSaGa was more or less shooting in the dark in terms of mechanics, it was the title that bridged the series from handheld to home consoles and, quite obviously, tried to reinvent itself a bit and add a ton of shit, it's actually very ambitious, but I'd say that on many things it failed to deliver in the same way that FFII did, mostly due to design oversight and possibly too much stuff happening at once and Kawazu and his design team having no idea on how to properly balance things and implement them well. The subsequent jump to RomaSaGa 2 was just as big and there's an abyss in terms of polish and functionality, same thing that happened with RomaSaGa 3, though I still believe that 2 had better non linearity, progression design and boss design than 3, 3 did streamline the whole system a lot though and it also added great stuff like Commander Mode all the while looking and sounding absolutely gorgeous.

>>3510952
It's pretty obvious that Kawazu was daddy's favorite all along by now. Unlike Matsuno and Takahashi ;_;

>>3510952
that's unusual, isn't SaGa known for being a trailblazer in the genre? I'd think Kawazu is all for moving it forward. Or am I reading your message wrong due to my low level of experience with the SaGa series?

>>3510952
>BUT IN 3D THIS TIME AND WITHOUT WONKY DOLLS FOR CHARACTERS.
>It's time to move the series forward and it's pretty clear Kawazu doesn't want to.
Man, I feel you on this, but what can you do, you gotta make a living somehow and get more people into the series.
I'm all for change but no 2D or SD characters hits harder than I'd thought
>>3510964
Kawazu is arguably the last piece of the original Squaresoft in Square-Enix by now, and he's a well known and respected developer and producer in Japan.
>>3510967
>I'd think Kawazu is all for moving it forward.
It's different in this case because SD characters have been a trademark of the series, except Unlimited of course, as a longtime SaGa fan I welcome the change, especially since the conversion from Kobayashi's art is pretty much perfect, but at the same time it's like saying goodbye to one fundamental trademark of the series, which as you noticed, is kind of ironic since SaGa is all about constantly challenging itself and the genre.
It's a bit like a mainline SRW title with realistic sprites, there's something that just doesn't click.

>>3510981
Oh I see, I never knew of this correlation between SaGa and SD 2D characters.

That's alright though, change can always be a good thing for a series as long as it's done in a way which is internally consistent with the series and is still fun as well.

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>>3510992
>I never knew of this correlation between SaGa and SD 2D characters.

The SD style and 2D have been fundamental parts of the aesthetic of the series, to the point that you could lack one but not the other, Unlimited had 2D realistic characters but Minstrel Song had 3D SD characters, all other games in the series except Scarlet have all 2D SD characters, even Imperial is big on this, converting all characters from the various games to Romancing SaGa 3 aesthetic in terms of proportions, style and spritesheets.
It's one of those unspoken rules or marks of the series, Kawazu loved his SD characters so I can feel what Anon meant, as much as he likes to continuously change stuff and make games as different and replayable as he does, I too don't think it was easy for him to let both 2D and SD characters go this time, even if it was a damn good jump.
I mean, basically every game that he produced or worked on as designer bar a few Crystal Chronicles and Last Remnant use SD characters, it's hard to ignore the signal sent with Scarlet Grace if you've played all the other games or know Kawazu's style.

>>3511004
I think the point is that Scarlet's 3D characters are so close to the 2D designs that it's blurred the meaning of the distinction.

They are a little bit SD though, in their proportions.

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>>3511059
And that's a perfectly good point I agree with, it's basically a third paradigm, but it's still a bit strange, it will take a while to get used to
>They are a little bit SD though
I had the impression the heads and general body proportion were kinda strange, I'm not sure whether this is just me but seeing another one noticing this makes me think.

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>>3511116
No its not just you
Their heads are still too large to be realistic. If anything, they look just like Minstrel Song charecters with slightly more body in the the body:head ratio.

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>>3511116
Barbera (Minstrel Song) in her FMV seems pretty similar to what Scarlet Grace is going for

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Blue is the best.

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Aw ye, my dudes; I beat Red's story in Frontier!
Does justice ever exist!? What does R3X mean?
Also, i totally knew what Hawke's little secret was the moment he had the blackX costume. This was a pretty cool end.

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I'm thinking about playing Emelia next because her art looks cool and it evokes thoughts of Samus Aran from Metroid

>>3511864
shes probably my favorite scenario, also getting liza early and her story seems a bit more open compared to other characters (other than lute).

she also can get a wealth of party members early and gets access to DSC super fast, this mostly has to do with liza than anything else though, that bitch is broken

>>3511882
>her story seems a bit more open compared to other characters
well thats just great after having played through Red's scenario where the whole first half of the game is linear.

I dont what DSC is. Also, damn Emelia is really weak at the start. How is she best used?

>>3511817
I love how Blue is both the evil twin and the protagonist.

>>3511894
Normal Costume: Swords
Tiger Costume: Guns and Martial Arts and Swords and Magic (she uses Liza's list and Liza is good at everything)
Dancer Costume: Swords and also nothing. (she uses Annie's list and Annie is terrible, though she's strong and learns just enough sword techniques to be passable. Seriously though Annie has good strength and a short list of sword techs but everything else about her is bad)

If you learn "Sliding" in her normal costume or dancer costume, you can switch to Pink Tiger and learn the other 3 moves you need (BabelCrumble, Suplex, GiantSwing) and equip them all at the same time to learn DSC.

>>3511894
DSC is basically the games best combination attack, does tens of thousands of damage and can be obtained early in her story due mostly to liza being so crazy.

Emelia does start out pretty weak, probably the weakest of most of the protags, she develops well though and she can be used with guns swords or fists really she is a well rounded character but you have to just build her up early on, this is why she gets such strong party members just handed to her though.

Her story is great because her starting out weak shows shes unprepared for the life she gets thrust into, while all the people she gets involved with are combat veterans and shit, its a cool dynamic, and she turns into a badass by the end.

>>3511906
Lute, Riki, and Asellus are all really weak at the start. Even T260G is weak until you slap literally any equipment at all on her.

I've wanted to play SaGa Frontier since it first came out but never really got around to it. Finally started it a few days ago and just finished Blue's story today and started TS60. This is probably going to end up in my top ten by the time I finish all of the other stories.

>>3510796
I don't really understand why so many people seem to mention the reels.

>>3510835
SaGa Frontier II has ruined my ears, at this point I can't hear the Unlimited Battle theme without my brain trying to fit it into being another remix of Feldschlacht.

>>3510903
I'll be completely honest, maybe it's because I played it as a kid, but I absolutely love SaGa 3, it might not be a proper SaGa game, but for when it came out, it was really a game that pushed the GB to its limits.

Also, we might need a Kawazu-kami weak to Kawazu-chainsaw?

>>3512430
>>3512430
That's the only one I never really played. Loved FFL 1 and 2 but then got a little into 3 and it felt really generic by comparison. Something else was vying for my attention and I never went back to it. How did it push things? Any reason to revisit it at this point?

>>3512432
Not sure what the majority opinion is bit SaGa 3 DS at least is worth your time. I'd generally ignore the gameboy version.

>>3512442
That didn't get translated though did it? What does it add that the GB doesn't have?

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>>3511465
I began wondering about it by looking at Balmaint, but I thought it was just my impression due to his huge hair, Leonard seems more proportioned and the only one that really gives it away is Taria and maybe Silvia, it doesn't help that characters have very different bodies so they hide it well, see Kaspar and Urpina.
>>3511506
Yeah, it's kinda similar but with more proportioned heads.
>>3511817
>Every other protagonist helps Fei-on and possibly the others so they can get out of Tanzer
>"I'm done here, bye"
The biggest asshole ever.
>>3511862
>What does R3X mean?
It was a reference to Sentai shows, Kawazu wanted to make Red's storyline a bit meta by adding that sequence as if playing Red's story was like watching a Sentai show, which is pretty fun if you think about the little girl in Tanzer being an Alkaiser fangirl, Alkaiser is himself kind of a in-game celebrity lorewise so it makes sense for the game to joke about it.
>>3511864
Emilia has a cool costume gimmick and her cast and storyline is good too, I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy her quest.
>>3511905
>but everything else about her is bad
She has great tits, Red can confirm.
>>3512157
How did you like the magician duel?
You better play the other games if you haven't already, Frontier is probably the most quirky but all the others have their own charm.
>>3512430
>we might need a Kawazu-kami weak to Kawazu-chainsaw?
>Implying the madman didn't learn from his mistakes
The last SaGa game will have Kawazu as full powered final boss, with as many turn actions as the number of SaGa games, debuff immunity, an Overdrive/Quicktime counter, Parry and access to the moveset of all previous SaGa bosses.
Screencap this.
>>3512446
>That didn't get translated though did it?
There's decent ENG patches for both the DS remakes.
>What does it add that the GB doesn't have?
It's a SaGa game this time around.
Jokes aside, it adds most of the series mechanics up to Minstrel Song but with a few twists.

>>3512432
Probably not all that worth it, but for a standard RPG it was very good. You get 4 permanent party members with actual personalities, and some guest members (who can't level up, or have their gear removed, although you can fill in any gear slot that isn't full), a time travel mechanic that predates Chrono Trigger (and yet is somewhat similar, although dropped midgame), you can switch freely your characters between races (it goes: monster, beast, human/mutant, cyborg, robot, and meat or parts dropped from enemies transform you one rank left or right), the game has a lot of content/overworld/bosses, the plot is pretty interesting and doesn't feel "staged" like SaGa 1 and SaGa 2 (which I think is intentional, mind you, at least in the first one), lots of weapons/armors/spells, and it has one of the coolest airships ever to appear in videogames.

Sure maybe it felt more FF than SaGa, but it wouldn't have been a bad FF game, or a bad game at all, per se. The only thing it's bad at being is SaGa.

Incidentally, from memory:
Monsters have fixed stats (usually good), can use some skills, don't benefit from gear and can't use magic.
Beasts are good at martial arts, can use some skills as well, but also benefit from gear.
Humans have good stats, can use gear, and are proficient with weapons.
Mutants have good stats, can use gear, and are proficient with magic.
Being human or mutant is fixed: 2 humans and 2 mutants, who can become the other 4 races.
Cyborgs have shitty stats, but get extra bonuses from gear (think SaGa 2 robots), and they might be more proficient in some weapon types, I don't remember. They also get some skills, I think.
Robots can use specific items sold in shops to boost their stats through the roof (think SaGa 1 humans, although I think it caps correctly). They can use some skills, too (some are very strong). I don't remember if they can use gear.
Exact form of any race depends on your level and your current element when you become it.

>>3512157
>This is probably going to end up in my top ten by the time I finish all of the other stories.
While I might end up feeling the same, I personally couldn't say that its a better game than Minstrel Song, but that's just my personal preference

>>3512471
I checked the instruction manual, and Cyborgs can use unique skills, but have no weapon they use particularly well, Monsters actually CAN use magic, Robots can use gear, but cannot use magic except a couple special ones needed for story progress.
Also, to explain better: every character has an inner element, and that's his or her element when in base (human or mutant) form. When you eat meat or install a part, if you're not returning to your base form, you combine your current element with the meat element on some table, and depending on your current level and element, you get your new form. Incidentally, some forms cover more than one element. Except a facility in the game that returns you to base form, you will keep that form even if you level up, and only change when installing another part, or eating another meat.
For example, you can turn into a worm at level 1-2. If you level up and become level 3, you will stay a worm, however, if you ever change form, you will never ba able to become a worm again, since you can only become a worm at level 1 or 2. There are some beasts or robots with very strong abilities that I kept for a lot of levels, but overall, this is not extremely useful, I have to say. Past a certain level, the table just stops at the top tier: at that point you will only ever be able to turn into 2 monsters (Sei-Ryu, Garuda), 1 beast (Anubis), 1 cyborg (Deleted) and 1 robot (Venus). Venus and Anubis are pretty strong, but I'll be completely honest: Humans and Mutants more or less wreck the endgame.

>>3512495
Frontier has a lot of good and unique things that puts it fairly high on my list but it needs a lot more polish to truly shine, even without considering all the cut content, the system as a whole isn't tight enough compared to other games in the series, Frontier 2 was much more polished when it comes to mechanics and game design although it's not as open as Frontier.

Taken in the series' context though, there's no denying that Frontier is designwise a giant, it's the title that defined the series' modern standards, which isn't a small feat.
A shame Kawazu seem to have dropped the classic sci-fi/fantasy setting completely after it, guess the race system was too much to deal with or maybe he just got bored.

Funnily enough, he used a vaguely similar race concept for his Crystal Chronicles games.

>>3512541
I suppose its a little unfair to compare a PS2 game to a PS1 title; Minstrel Song being a game that is also a Remake of the first compared to Frontier being a completely original game. I just like the base gameplay of MS more, even though there is less unique content; there's a lot of details going on in the battle, party management, and there is the dungeons and dragons aspect of it with things like Proficiencies.

That Sci-Fi/Fantasy setting was really popular during the 90's. The final fantasy games at the time were all about that. That was a setting that stuck around with that series even though FF itself originally started as a tradition fantasy setting

>>3512567
I don't know, I always thought there was an underlying sci-fi thing in Final Fantasy since the beginning, with the robots from ancient civilizations and airships and time travel. Then again the line between sci-fi and fantasy has traditionally been very blurry, with high fantasy having magic a bit like science, and advanced science being a bit like magic.

>>3512567
>The final fantasy games at the time were all about that.
That's a bit of a stretch to compare the SaGa sci-fi setting with FF, FFVII and FFVIII were kind of like that and even then they didn't really have something as crazy as Frontier's or the GB SaGa settings where humans, espers, monsters and robots had children together or a hard fusion between hard boiled cyberpunk worlds with neon glow slums full of robots and humans and the nearest world being a generic fairytale village with friendly talking slimes, flying skeletons and humans living all together and interacting with each other.

FFVIII had humans and the Shumi, unless you count Mumbas which iirc are implied to be a form of the Shumi, FFVII had humans and the only examples of non humans were Cait Sith, which turns out to be basically a remotely controlled doll and Red XIII which is a genetic experiment, all the other FF 90's FF are humans and moogles, and moogles are often barely above animals when it comes to intellect compared to SaGa's monsters who are perfectly capable of communicating and have human-like intellect.
Also>>3512695 is right, FF's flying castle has actual ancient supercomputers and Warmech(which cameo'd in the GB SaGa too), FFII was more steampunk and I don't remember FFIII or V having any sci-fi element but everything else had it in one way or another, just not as over the top as SaGa.

>>3512462
>How did you like the magician duel?
It was annoying, but I thought it was a really awesome idea for a boss fight. I don't know if it was their intention, but I liked how they gimp you a little bit by forcing you to pay an LP to get time magic because they know it will give you an unfair advantage over Rouge.
>You better play the other games if you haven't already, Frontier is probably the most quirky but all the others have their own charm.
I'm planning on it. The series has always appealed to me but I've always had too much other shit I wanted to play. Now I'm bored and just want to play some unique RPGs.
>>3512495
I haven't played it, but it looks like it's a much more solid game. Something about SF just really appeals to me though. I like how dreamlike and charming the world is.

I have no idea what Saga game to play

>>3513578

Which ones have you already played?

>>3513594
If Last Remnant counts, only that one. And RS3

Is there a good Unlimited Saga guide

>>3513662

I'm not sure I'd recommend Unlimited as your first one, even if you did manage your way through TLR. A good starting point is FF Legend on GB, or Romancing SaGa on the PS2. Also, due to the nature of this series, it's highly recommended to play with as little reliance on guides as possible (excepting RS2 which is virtually unbeatable without a guide or 100+ hours of restarting over and over).

>>3513724
I hear RS(PS2) was bad. Is it good?

>>3513824

It's excellent. It's a bit hard to get into, but once you've got a decent understanding of its systems it's seriously great.

>>3513824
most normies are just put off by the uncanny valley character design, the game itself is quite good

>>3514137
It's actually the opposite of uncanny valley

>>3514503
I can't believe these guys were supposed to look like humans valley.

>>3514520
i understood what they were going for
They do look kind of weird but its not that bad, they're like caricatures

>>3514520
They're supposed to look like the humans of Mardias which are not the same as humans of the world we live in. It can't be uncanny valley because uncanny valley can only happen when something tries to look realistic, which this does not.

>>3514535
the body proportions aren't realistic but the faces try to look realistic how is this not uncanny valley, it doesn't have to be everything that looks realistic

>>3514618
They might look uncanny in the same way a porcelain doll would

>>3510775
Game system of Unlimited is just seriously confusing because the manual/tutorials are really terrible at explaining the mechanics, and damn do you ever need a manual with how brutally punishing the game can get.

Pretty much every aspect of the game has hidden layers that are never hinted at; they generally can be discovered only through experimentation. Item crafting's a good example of this; my mind was blown when I found out you could craft Steel items by combining wood and iron items - which is how steel is made in real life, but nothing in the game ever hints at this. Other things include panel arrangement bonuses, the functionality of skills, understanding how to manipulate the reels, etc.

The game needed a far more comprehensive manual than the thin ~20 page inserts that PS2 games got standard; RPG fans can tolerate convoluted mechanics but the lack of documentation was really crippling.

>>3512415
The reels end up enraging in actual play because there's a slippage factor - even if you pressed the button right on the dot there was always a slight randomization element, which meant building the reel panels up was of far greater importance than having good reflexes - but then this sort of makes the reels minigame pointless - just cut out the illusion of player skill influencing it. Plus, with the poor documentation it wasn't really clear *how* to unlock skills and reels.


In terms of the overall receptions it didn't really help that the marketing for the game was really thin and trailers at the time were just of all the pretty cutscenes - this was way before readily available gameplay footage on Youtube. I'm sure a lot of players got the game at full price and felt immensely cheated by the board game experience. Without an understanding of the underlying mechanics the game just felt like a frustrating crapshoot of pressing X and watching another reel slip.

>>3514738
I'll note I got a copy cheap: loved the music, the concept, and the art style, but just found the initial gameplay experience off-putting - it wasn't really clear how to improve characters or if there was really any strategy at all.

After reading through some user-made explanations of the game mechanics years later I gave it another shot and had a much better time - it's definitely one of those games where a better explanation of the mechanics gives players a much stronger sense of agency.

>>3513201
>but I liked how they gimp you a little bit by forcing you to pay an LP to get time magic because they know it will give you an unfair advantage over Rouge.
Frontier is full of those little particulars, Time Lord's story is also very nice as it's basically a way to address the problem of Time Magic being too powerful.
>>3513578
I'd say play RomaSaGa 3 or Frontier, I wouldn't suggest you to play Unlimited even though you played TLR, but you're free to try it out.
>>3514520
Yusuke Naora, the guy who did the designs for Unlimited and Front Mission4/5 was in charge of translating Kobayashi's concepts into 3D models, that is why they look so uncanny, it's his style that kinda does, especially the way he draws eyes.
I personally don't mind it, though his Sif costume isn't as good as Kobayashi's redesign.
>>3514738
>I'm sure a lot of players got the game at full price and felt immensely cheated by the board game experience.
It doesn't help that the game was marketed as a "classic RPG", which is the same mistake they're making with Scarlet Grace.
It is a classic RPG, but in Kawazu's mind, a classic RPG is something strictly tabletop based, not the usual videogame adaptation like Dragon Quest.
It has to be said though that most players don't really bother playing something different and brand them as bad games on a whim, just look at all the people in the west talking about Scarlet, the only website I've seen that had a majority of positive opinions about it was Shilliconera(!), and mostly because most people seem to be fans of the series, every other website has basically just negative comments about the graphics, the lack of dungeons and the battles being too "simple" but most of them don't know a damn thing about the series anyway.

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>>3513824
God no, it is easily the best out of the series I've played due to its mechanics. Think of it as a greatest hits from all the games previous to it mechanics wise while remaking the base Romancing SaGa games to the SNES.

Easily my favorite JRPG. Which is why I am excited for Scarlet Grace due to not being restricted to a previous base game. I hope there are field skills.

>>3514738
The reels weren't really that bad. During battles the higher the level the skill you had the more the technique panels were populating the reel which lent itself for consistently getting tier five techniques.

>>3512432
It is worth checking out because it can be sort of fun going through time and seeing how the world changes due to the flooding. Not only that you can make your characters eat meat or install robot parts and turn them into beasts, monsters, cyborgs, and robots which have their own abilities and stats. Has some great music as well. Not as good as the other two Gameboy games but worth a whirl if you enjoy JRPG's.

>>3513824
best of the bunch imo
it combines various elements of past SaGa games and even improves upon some (weapon durability)
the BP system was a great addition and there are NPCs in each town that explain most of the game's mechanics, which is great for new players

the only thing I didn't care for was the proficiency system

>>3513824
Its definately my favorite jrpg and i think its arguable the best on its platform but that just comes down to opinion

>>3514862
>During battles the higher the level the skill you had the more the technique panels were populating the reel
That's part of my point - it works out later on, but the initial explanation of unlocking further reel panels is very poor and the reels suggest a system where player actions are more important than character building, which is definitely not the case in Unlimited.

>>3514618
the faces are absolutely not realistic. they're cartoons.

>>3514738
Actually the reels have a 50% chance of stopping in place and a 10% chance of slipping 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 slots. So you can absolutely plan your stops in such a way that it doesn't result in critical failure or that result in a higher probability of success if your skills/reflexes are good, the same way a skilled player can purposefully roll a 20 sided die in a way that avoids landing on 1 or strikes the middle range most of the time.

Battle reels on the other hand rotate at different speeds and start at different spots relative to the other reels depending on when you press the button, and a talented person with a bit of experience at spinning them can come up with a strategy that will line up different portions of the reels at the same spot, assuming you nailed the links with the earlier reels in the combo properly.

tl;dr: git gud

>>3515647
Also: Battle Reels never slip ever.

Are there any other JRPGs (retro or otherwise) that focus this much on experimental gameplay rather than excessive shitty storytelling or is SaGa destined to be the only JRPG series I like?

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>>3515807
Etrian Odyssey, maybe? There are other Wizardry clones out there but I think EO is still the one that still messes with class and ability combos.

>>3514862
>I hope there are field skills.
Considering the trailer shows that the field has random events happening like that trap that sapped 1LP I guess there might be field skills, hopefully it also incorporates some treasure hunting mechanic à la Metal Max.

I personally hope there will be panels or some similar mechanic, Scarlet is a mainline game and not a remake so it makes sense it would keep working on some of the mechanics Unlimited set.
The new concept of BP being now a general pool instead of a single character pool is already a good premise and alters the game's design considerably from what we're used to, then there's that bar you fill out by attacking which I still can't fathom what it's for.

Ahhh, I'm getting hyped again, and there's still some two months before I get my hands on this game.
>>3515807
I'd say Metal Max is the closest thing to SaGa, though it's still much more traditional in battle mechanics for certain things, but the Tank mechanic alone adds a whole other layer of gameplay that will keep you occupied.
On the other hand Metal Max has much better exploration than SaGa as the world is huge and you don't need to talk to people in order to unlock places or something, it's just as non linear and full of quests and hidden stuff as SaGa and focused on crazy shenanigans and minimal narrative. It has neat gimmicks such as Bounties, deep Tank customization, some games have a neat class system, treasure hunting and focus on exploration and skills rather than stats, you can really clear the game at comfortable levels instead of needing to grind since what you put on and how you customize your tanks is much more important than your raw stats.
In terms of feel, imagine SaGa meets Fallout meets Mad Max, it's pretty much unique.

It's my favorite JRPG series together with SaGa so I might be biased, but I think every SaGa player can enjoy Metal Max, even though it still didn't get rid of random encounters, that is the only thing that I don't like.

>>3515904
>then there's that bar you fill out by attacking which I still can't fathom what it's for.
probably the same as the morale bar from TLR that lets you use stronger techniques/get a stat bonus?

>>3515948
Maybe, or maybe it's something else, it seems the Gods' Blessings will play a major part judging by the trailers considering there's already mass healing and mass buffing, so by charging that bar you might get access to one of those, or maybe it's something else entirely like a bar that allows you to properly combo once filled up.

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>>3515807
I highly suggest Hybrid Heaven for the N64. It has the same growth mechanics as SaGa/Final Fantasy II, the more you use something the better you get at it. Though it does it for all your body parts. Use your right arm a ton? It will gain more strength, get hit in the shins while doing a block? That legs defense can go up.

Its battle system is fun too, though a bit slow. You travel around on a 3D plane and you have a power meter that fills up. Obviously the more it fills up the more damage you'll do on attacks. Then you press the action button and select your attacks. Think of that like Vagrant Story, but unlike Vagrant Story you cannot manually select a body part (you have to pay attention to the spacing between you and your foe along with what move you use. A front high kick point blank will only hit their shins rather than their chest or head.) but you can attack when you want to (so if an enemy is running at you and you decide to attack then they can run straight into an attack unable to stop themselves from connecting).

The way you learn skills is great and has some risk versus reward. You can only learn new attacks if they are performed on you, and you might not always learn them. What can make certain moves risky is if they damage the head like head-butts or pile drivers. Like Vagrant Story it has body location damage but Hybrid Heaven does it much better than Vagrant Story. If a leg goes critical you cannot kick with it and you limp. If your head is critical you are out cold until you come to, and the enemy can stomp on you or do leg locks while you are unconscious.

>>3517087

Not the same poster but that game sounds god damn amazing and I've never even heard of it until now, I need to give it a try at some point.

>>3517090
It has some light platforming as well, but it suffers from early Konami controls so you might get Castlevania 64 flashbacks but even then I found that fun jumping from bridge to bridge or trying to find ledges to latch on and shimmy across chasms.

It was originally suppose to have stealth elements which is why you could do a lot more on the field like in an action game unlike other JRPG's, but when you play the game it is VERY obvious they dropped the stealth mechanics. One remnant mechanic is when you get into a battle you have a neutral, surprised, or advantage setting. You almost never catch an opponent surprised because often when you go into a room they are already facing the direction you came from and start running at you.

It is a shame Konami didn't go further, would have liked to see platforming and puzzle solving to be expanded upon since often times that is what JRPG's really need rather than being guided to where you should explore then just kill guys.

>>3517087
You know, I think I have that game on N64 but like never played it. IIRC it worked with the N64 memory expansion.
Incidentally, of all things The Elder Scrolls series uses a similar system, you gain skill levels by doing things, and when you increase enough skills, you level up. Which can also screw you up since procedurally generated enemies level up too (although, so does the loot).

>>3517150
>The Elder Scrolls series uses a similar system
Too bad it got progressively worse with each game in the series.

>>3517781
The series peaked with morrowind. Some people will say Daggerfall but i think MW does the whole package better

>>3517087
Tobal 2 is better

>>3517835

Just from the opening video, this game looks absolutely bonkers. What the hell is going on here? I must've seen 10 different settings in the span of 2 minutes.

Legend of Mana is like a SaGa game without all the obtuse garbage mechanics

>>3518787
lmao

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>>3518787

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>>3518787

>>3517835
I've always ignored Tobal due to Toriyama's art but the series has great music and it's iirc Sasai's last work on videogame music.
Maybe I'll give it a whirl, I've also been interested in the game's dungeon mode but I absolutely loathe any and all of the characters' designs, so it's kinda hard for me to get into it.

I'll try to stop being a huge faggot and see if I can get into it, it's from Square's golden age after all so it can't be too bad.

>>3519330
Tobal and Tobal 2 both have a great dungeon mode

This is a game that lets you do some crazy shit, like mix potions based on their RGB color values which are randomized at the start of each dungeon branch

You can level up like your right leg or your head or throwing ability, and like, strengthening your legs might let you jump higher or blow through guards. You can counter basically anything and you and the opponent can pretty much endlessly execute grappling reversals on each other.

Enemies in dungeon mode are represented by floating fireballs that create a room when you draw near to them, so if you drink an invisibility potion that lets you avoid battles, you can run up to the fireball and cook pieces of meat on it. are you listening? you can cook meat on the abstract representation of enemy encounters in this game.

it's basically insane

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>get into first battle in Romancing Saga (PS2)
>battle theme comes on
>mfw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekiz0YMNp7A

>>3519693
See the boss theme
>>3509802

>>3519409
Seems really neat, but I want to see for myself how well those ideas translated into actual gameplay.
>>3519693
Is it your first SaGa? All games have great battle themes, and quite a lot of them actually, you better check the arranged albums by Itoken if you haven't already.

>>3517835
I think Tobal 2 is the all time fighting game with the most playable characters ever.
Ehrgeiz was a pretty good spiritual successor to it, btw. The quest mode was interesting too, it reminded me a lot of Diablo.

>>3518787
Isn't LoM full of obtuse garbage mechanics, however?

>>3521032
Anyone whose played Tobal 2 knows Tobal 2 is GOAT

then they feel sad because they have no one to play Tobal 2 with

>>3521049
>TFW I can't understand Japanese and had to go by trial and error as a kid
At least I understood how to use purple crystals.
Anyway, I just wanna say that the cheat that allows for characters growing/shrinking was fun as fuck to mess with.
The concept of each character having a life-fueled fireball attack was cool too.
Also, IIRC Tobal Nr.1 was the first game to ever use the PS1 analog controller.

I'm seriously wondering if the whole Minstrel character in FFXIV is a SaGa citation in some way.

>>3521035
More or less, the problem is that they're actually obtuse and garbage in the sense that you need to memorize a longass list of items you need for forging(which merely increases one stat), land combinations and all that shit, the golem creation process is admittedly pretty neat though.
Shame the game is so piss easy you don't need 90% of the mechanics and gimmicks related to combat, which are incidentally a major chunk of the gameplay.
Not like SaGa is perfect on that regard, many people don't even touch Commander Mode for instance, but at least it stimulates you by demanding you to know a good part of its basic mechanics and their applications if you don't want to get your shit pushed in, LoM fails to demand even low level effort on the player's side except when it comes to quest puzzles or getting all the possible questlines, which you can only learn from trial and error or reading a placement guide, all the rest is dependent on how much of a completionist you are because you don't need 90% of what the game has to complete it.

On a slightly related note, I was pretty surprised to see that FFTA used the very same map placement mechanic as LoM, though what you get is unique/rare items instead of quests, if polished, I guess it can be a really good mechanic when it comes to replay value and non linearity, it's also a neat narrative trick, and it's a good way to entrust world building to the players and make their choices matter, a SaGa with a similar mechanic would be pretty fun.

>>3521503
well in LoM you are literally god, I'm not sure it's supposed to be difficult

>>3521486
what's he look like? Does he have a double-necked guitar?

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>>3521486
This one?

>>3521579
Probably not a direct reference, since kings disguising themselves as musicians to travel around their country has been a thing in literature for a really long time.

>>3520520
>Is it your first SaGa?

I played RS3 years ago.

what is the best character / class / weapon combination in RS3, like which combo gives you that special type that lets you learn almost everything effectively? This game seems so convoluted and backwards from what I read

>>3521609
According to the english wiki, it seems like it's actually an insert for the Producer more than a SaGa reference, I don't think FFXIV has any, it seems to be more focused on FF than other series.
>>3522771
You have a lot of new stuff to play then, lucky you.
>>3523001
>like which combo gives you that special type that lets you learn almost everything effectively?
There's nothing like that, at best you can exploit the glitch to let you use two Types, use savestates until you fill out one Type list(good luck!) and then switch to the other Type, have fun spending hours doing that when you can simply get a party member with the type you want.

Besides, it's a completely pointless and stupid effort since you can master waza in RomaSaGa 3, there's absolutely no reason to bother grinding a MC and using the Type glitch for waza, unless you want to solo I guess.

However, there are a few combinations to get statistically very strong characters, like Master Magician Thomas.
>and backwards
Really? What feels backwards to you?

>>3523028
>What feels backwards to you?
Mostly what I've read about selecting your class / weapon type in character select and it giving you a completely different waza seed, like rapiers giving you fist waza instead, stuff like that

>>3523036
Class is a raw bonus stat, Weapon Type is a bit of a complex matter.

First of all, you should know that every character has two types, the first type is the original character's type, this is the type you get when you recruit one character as party member, then there's a second type which is the type a character gets as MC, MCs can fill this second type by selecting a weapon in the character choice menu, however, party members(MCs included) also have a predetermined second type for some reason which takes part in the MC Type glitch, so maybe that's what you've heard, but it's not a Type list problem.

Now, some Type lists are a bit hard to properly classify, certain Types, like 07, are easy to describe because they usually fill out 90% of one specific list and have some other decent to good stuff here and there, other types however are classified as generalists in the sense that while they might not fill out one list they usually have a really good selection of strong waza from a few lists, type 11 is a great example and is often considered the most desirable type to have since it basically has most of the strong waza from most weapons, other types might specialize in one weapon but also be really good at one other list, like type 04.
I can't tell you why the system works like that, my guess is that they tried to make RomaSaGa 2 Types a bit more flexible, back there Types were much more rigid and mostly limited to a category which included two weapons.
Iirc, the weapon selection yields these results:

Sword: Type 01
Greatsword: Type 02
Axe: Type 03
Club: Type 04
Epee: Type 05
Spear: Type 06
Bow: Type 07
Unarmed: Type 08
None: Type 00

And all of these roughly correspond to the best spark flag lists for each weapon, though 04 is a better list than 03 imho
So to answer this
>like rapiers giving you fist waza instead
It might really be something related to the MC glitch, unless I'm forgetting a specific glitch or bug.

>>3523113
Basically, the MC glitch redirects your MC Type to its second type, so to make a practical example with your own question, let's say you pick Ellen and choose to give her a Epee type, so a 05, the game switches her to her default or Party Member type 08(Unarmed) until you Save and Load the file, after that she'll switch to Type 05 as you selected through the opening menu.
As I've explained in my previous post, that is a way to get waza you normally can't have on a MC, as long as you want to grind for those of course and have access to savestates, not to mention exploit the Stat distribution system in some cases.

I think that's all I can tell you to answer your question, some other more knowledgeable anon with a better memory than mine might help you out a bit more and correct me in the case I was wrong on something, it wouldn't be the first time.

>>3523113
I guess my original question then would be how do you get type 11 through the selection process

>>3523158
also can any MC get type 11?

>>3523158
>>3523208
> how do you get type 11 through the selection process
>also can any MC get type 11?
Unless I'm forgetting some trick, no, it's impossible to get type 11.

I don't think anyone but Fake Robin on his MC slot type has it either, but it's been a while, I should dig in my bookmarks and recheck Endo-San spreadsheets to see whether someone else has it.
Truth to be told, I don't even remember if by using the character swap glitch you can get a Type 11 Fake Robin MC, it's kind of hard keeping track of what all the glitches in the game do, I don't even think you can access the other Types further than 11 even though they're present in the game's data.

If I may ask though, why are you so concerned about having a MC that can learn almost everything? It's not really something you can do with the old Type model, it's a stricter system from that of Frontier or Minstrel Song.

>>3523237

>Wanting a character that can do everything

Sounds like somebody has been playing too much ff

>>3523237
>If I may ask though, why are you so concerned about having a MC that can learn almost everything?
I'm just curious and mostly looking for more clarity on how the types work really, I've already played and beat RS3 a bunch of times but I've always been confused by this shit

>>3523263
>I'm just curious and mostly looking for more clarity on how the types work really,
It's quite simple, Types are a list of flags for spark checks.

Basically, the game checks these flag lists when it comes to sparking abilities, for each input the game filters the complete list of abilities in the game(magic and monster abilities included) through Types then makes a roll check through all the flags listed, after the game makes a check on a flag for a command through sparking, or in the case of a waza mastered through another character and equipped later on somebody else, it checks off that flag from the type list of that particular character.

Regarding Type lists choices and designs, as I said before, RomaSaGa 3 basically polishes the original Type concept introduced with RomaSaGa 2, I believe some choices, like Type 04 being proficient in both Axe and Hammer waza, derives from the original Type design where the five weapon proficiencies included two weapons instead of being more expanded like RomaSaGa 3, Swords and Greatswords fell in the same proficiency and many characters had a Type that let them focus on both weapons, same with Rapiers and Spears and Axes and Hammers. You can see they've polished it a bit though, the game uses less Types, but makes them more condensed, back in RomaSaGa 2 Types used to be very specific or very generic, coupled with the unusual way to teach waza, RomaSaGa 2 required you to be particularly knowledgeable if you wanted to get specific waza, RomaSaGa 3 streamlines the previous system a lot so you don't really need to hunt for specific sparkers that much.
In any case, these links might be useful for you.

http://kaerulabo.web.fc2.com/rs3/data/chara_data_para2.html

This link gives you all the types for every character in the game, left row is Default/Party member Type, right row is MC type.

http://s-endo.skr.jp/rs3techlearnflag.txt

This link is Endo-san's datamined list of type flags.

>>3523327
good info, clears some shit up for sure, I was always curious to the science behind this and what was possible, especially during the character selection process.

I'm really just looking to play it again and wanted to go a little deeper into the min/max if possible this time around

>>3523340
>I was always curious to the science behind this and what was possible
It's a simple system, though of course you can't really infer it from the game unless you experiment for hours, SaGa stopped using Types since Frontier and even then Frontier streamlined and simplified the system even more so that characters that don't have flag for a waza still have a 1/255 chance of sparking unflagged waza.
Though maybe Scarlet will go back to Types given the fuck huge list of characters and system, or maybe not.

If you want some serious science you should read about damage calculations and mechanics, now that will make your head spin.

Just got Minstrel Song today. Felt really nice to get a game that came in a nice heavy case with a full color instruction booklet. I haven't finished SF yet though. Would it hurt to go back and forth between them as I finish scenarios or should I just wait until I finish SF and SF2 to jump into it?

>>3523638
>Would it hurt to go back and forth between them as I finish scenarios
Thats literally what Im doing. I recently beat my 2nd playthrough as Hawke and am now on my 3rd with Barbera, while in SF, i beat Red's scenario and now am working on Emelia's

Which game do you like more? I like the more unique playthroughs of SF but i personally think the gameplay of MS is a straight upgrade

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Aw ye, my copy of Unlimited Saga has finally arrived, I ended up getting for it for only a few dollars (the shipping cost more than the game). From what little bit I've look up so far, it seems like Ventus might be a good choice to start with since he comes with Carrier quests. From what I've seen in this thread, this game was meant to be similar to tabletop gaming so that's kind of the mindset I'm going in with, d20 rolls and all. Given the reputation of the game, i'll probably have a guide open most of the time but really, I'm sure Unlimited isn't that hard. Any tips for getting into this game?

>>3523665
I haven't touched MS yet, but from what I've seen it looks like something I'd like a lot. It will have to be a really great game for me to like it more than SF though. I really like the charm of the 2D PS RPGs.

>>3524394
try to do it without a guide first

don't let it break you

>>3524394
Ventus and Judy are the best beginning quests.
Laura and Armic are probably best left for last.

>>3524394
>Any tips for getting into this game?
Well, if you want to follow a guide, do follow it, that's the best tip I can give you.

Rolls are a bit different in this game as they're not based on DnD numerical standards and they're modifiable by using panels, what I'd suggest you to do is having characters that can repair weapons, cross obstacles and pick locks, Unlimited works like a campaign in that sense, but you have a limited number of turns to complete quests that aren't part of the main character quests, and it is vital to get the loot you'll find during sidequests.
Moreover, certain quests are focused on puzzles and exploration, you have to keep in mind that most of them will have very big maps so you might find yourself running out of turns while trying to figure out a puzzle or simply exploring, that isn't a problem since you can repeat sidequests until you complete them successfully, but keep in mind that you can complete them only once, so you'll have to maximize your gains.

Unlimited also has a peculiar levelling system, unlike other games in the series, you won't get ANY level up until you successfully complete a quest, that means no panels and no stat ups, however, you do keep the loot you find even if you fail the quest, one other thing is that Unlimited calculates your HP level ups and panel poools based on how much a character has fought until you complete a quest, that means every action you take in battle counts towards the final evaluation, no matter how many times you fail to complete a quest, so make good use of all of your characters, swap them around frequently and make all of them have some fighting time, neglecting any of them will only make the end game harder.
I'd suggest you to read carefully about the panel system, it's very important to understand how it works since it influences both your characters' perks and abiliites and their stats, you should also read a forging guide, having equipment with good abilities is vital.
>>>

>>3524489
Ventus has a decent cast, though I personally prefer Ruby's and Laura's, but he's the only one who has access to an unlimited number of quests, which is pretty good for chest hunting, conversely, he has possibly the hardest personal boss in the game.

Honestly, I wouldn't tell you to follow guides for SaGa games, learning the system by yourself is extremely satisfying and guides might spoil you and make you either overestimate or underestimate certain stuff, and if you're a fa/tg/uy I suppose it would be pleasant to play Unlimited raw and see learn for yourself just how important certain things are.
In any case, I like your confidence and you've got the right mindset to tackle Unlimited, just remember that under the simplistic interface lies a mechanical abyss with truly unique design choices.
>>3524404
Mechanically speaking, Frontier just can't compete with Minstrel Song, though it still has some awesome spells that I wish Minstrel Song had, on the rest, it's a matter of taste, I prefer Frontier's unique stories and more personal quests, Minstrel Song redirects you to Saruin all the time and feels more like an epic tale with parallel routes than a crazy ass ensemble of characters living all in the same complex world, so maybe it won't be as good as Frontier in terms of scenario, but it's undeniably more polished and elaborated in mechanics.

>>3524394
Eh, you don't really NEED a guide. Also yeah, Ventus allows you to get character improvements easier since you can do carrier quests and those count as an adventure.

>>3524489
>>3524491
I've already found a couple chests on the field but they had levels like 20 or 15 and I didnt appear to open them. i'm guess they were locked, and possibly trapped as well, or is there a command for opening them that I didnt do?

>>3524918
Chests are a bit of a prickly business in Unlimited.

Basically, there are three main problems with chests.

-They're locked, in this case you need someone with the Locksmith panel to open them, then get the right panel on the reel, some maps however have keys scattered about that you can use to open the chests. Some chests also have Magical Locks, so you need someone that can cast the appropriate magic to break the Magical Lock.

-They're trapped, remember the good old days of Wizardry with booby trapped chests with Poison Needles? Yeah, it's just as dangerous here, so you need someone that can disarm traps and again, get on a good reel panel. Triggering a trap might also destroy the chest.

-They're Mimics, Mimics can be very nasty early on due to Unlimited's damage system being based on LP damage, Mimics are slime types with particularly high defense early on and nasty attacks, that means you need some character that has either access to Magic or Slashing/Piercing damage, blunt attacks are worthless against slime types.
The good thing about Mimics is that they can drop Magic Tablets, so in a way, Mimics are actually good and you might want to get into battles with those unless you know when and where to farm Magic Tablets without fighting Mimics.

Worst thing of all, sometimes you can get all of the three cases at the same time, so you need to Disarm, pick locks and maybe fight a Mimic too.

However, there is another kinda hidden option to open up locked Chests if you don't have someone who can pick locks, that is attacking them (you do that from the characters' menu), however, attacking them also has a very good chance of breaking the contents inside the chest or drastically diminishing the amount of gold inside and iirc triggering the trap on the chest too, so consider it as a last resort, it's the quickest but riskiest option since you might effectively waste a turn or more, yeah you need to go through the Reel even for this.

>>3524962
>finally, a jrpg where you can attack locked chests to open them, like in an DnD wrpg.
Holy shit, Unlimited is based! Do the pick locks and disarm traps skill have to be on the same character?

>>3524980
>Do the pick locks and disarm traps skill have to be on the same character?
Not at all, you just need access to those panels, no matter who has those, same thing with any other field ability like Swim, Sharpeye or Fortuneteller, or spells with field effects like the Detect line.

Again, don't make the mistake of thinking Unlimited follows videogame JRPGs rulesets, it works almost exactly like a tabletop game, you'll be surprised by how versatile and deep it is, that's why other people also told you to not spoil the fun with guides, just fucking around and discovering all the shit you can do by messing with commands and magics on the field is tons of fun.

>>3524992
Yeah, since everyone has said i
I shoukdbt, i won't be using a guide. Ive already discovered some thungs on my own, like using the bestial dagger's Find Gold skill, which is how i found thr chests in the first place

When battle reels come up, whats the difference between just Ok! or Hold?

>>3525010
>When battle reels come up, whats the difference between just Ok! or Hold?
It's pretty simple, Ok! stops the reel on that turn while Hold chains the reels together allowing you to create a combo, combos work just like most SaGa combo systems, they're pretty important in Unlimited since they also add up to LP damage, once you bring down a boss' HP threshold you'd want to unleash a combo as to damage its LP as much as possible for instance.

Do note that Hold also includes enemy attack commands in the reel combo, so you might end up comboing with the enemy attacks too, making their attacks stronger as well as yours, which can be pretty risky sometimes, it's a concept refined from SaGa Frontier 2's twin combo system in which enemies can participate in your combos too.

Basic character building tips for Unlimited SaGa:
>DON'T READ THIS until you get frustrated.
.
No really, try it yourself first!

>Basic Character types you should consider are; Fighter, Rogue, Monk, Magician, Tank, Craftsman, and Merchant.
>These roles can and should overlap
>A Fighter is someone who uses weapons to deal a lot of damage. You can subdivide fighter into a HEAVY fighter and a LIGHT fighter. The distinction here is what kind of weapon and what weight of weapon you use, Heavy weapon techniques do more HP damage and rely on strength, Light weapons do more LP damage and rely on skill. Generally, Axes and Swords are Heavy, Daggers and Bows are Light, and Spears are Hybrid. Swords are also Light weapons if you forge them into a lighter weight class. Weapon weight class is determined by the material it's originally made of, or the two materials you originally make it out of. Note that once it's a sword, it stays with that weight, so if you want a Steel or Damascus sword of a certain weight, you have to start with wood to make it light, and Ironstone to make it as heavy as possible. This of course only refers to TECHNIQUE weight class, because all forged equipment is actually weightless (what??), but that's not going to save you much, because you can't forge with Boots, Gloves, Helms, or Armor, and those are all gonna be pretty fucking heavy enough (unless they're made of wood or cloth or magical faerie silver). Note that Shields only work in the second slot, and that a sword or dagger with deflect is usually as good as a shield.
>A Thief has the Panels with the KEY symbols. You need a thief. Key panels give a bonus to SKILL and EARTH when you get a panel bonus, so all thieves tend to have a triangle or line of keys. Then you likely have two martial arts panels or two weapons panels being used to maximize skill gain on the panel grid.

>>3525038
Continuing:
>A Monk fights with Martial Arts and is as lightly equipped as possible. Martial Arts changes based on how heavy your character is, which is usually evident by their appearance, with the exception of Roy who is basically a joke character with 0 base weight even though he does not look like that. This is then modified by the weight of all your equipment, then modified again by the number of different types of Martial Arts panels you have which divided that total. Make it under a certain threshold and you'll be able to use lightweight martial arts classes. A middle weight character can still find use for Punch Arts and Throws. A Heavy weight martial artists has to have no Martial Arts panels and thus hitting the panel for their stronger techniques in battle is very hard. Light Weight Martial artists are strong in all of Punch/Kick/Throw, but Kicks are perhaps the strongest.
>A Magician uses magic. This is probably one of the most complex aspects of the game and hardest to master. First you have to have equipment forged with a bestial material (not serpentine, Ravenite/Lazuli/Topaz/Carnelian/Opal), or a Familliar with the appropriate Element such that you can use ____ Arts. You can also purchase from magic shop a weapon that inherently can cast magic with built in spells. Usually a magic shop casting weapon is what you'll use because they can have element support on the weapon slot, and you'll only ever repair them with Quick Fix (a craftsman type panel skill) to preserve their slots. Stacking as many Element supports on your equips as possible maximizes magic effectiveness. You get Magic from Magic tablets, which you must flag as being studied from the status menu during a quest, then get into battle and use magic spells to gain spell experience. Once you learn a spell, you can then use it as long as you have the appropriate element arts on your equipment.

>>3525064
Continuing:
>A Tank is a heavy character with a lot of LP and as much skill, spirit, endurance, and heavy armor as possible. Their entire purpose is to be slow, go first, and get hit.
>A craftsman is mostly a non-combatant, but also a metal mage. Mythe is pretty much the game's only Craftsman because for everyone else Quick Fix is the only craft skill that matters. Artiste is nice but also not necessary. Metal Magic is actually quite useful in dungeons and I can't say it's no good to have someone that can do it anyway, especially when it won't really take up their panel slots much to have it.
>A Merchant has merchant skills. These are used for buying stuff more efficiently in towns. Honestly Wood Magic is really great but the stat bonuses from merchant panels are terrible, and you'll still probably have a wood mage using Fortuneteller even though it gets a fire panel bonus instead, just because the element bonus on fortuneteller is so much higher. So a Merchant is also a non-combatant.

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>>3525038
>>3525064
>>3525080

God bless you Anon.

Damn, all this Unlimited talk reminds me that we'll never ever have another JRPG of this caliber.

TLR tried but it's still too tied to certain JRPG conventions that prevent it from reaching the heights and sheer madness of Unlimited's system.

We must find a way to let the Absolute Madman go crazy again but without worries for budget or reception so he can create the RPG to end all RPGs.

>>3525295
Why isnt SaGa more popular in the West? Were the majority of jrpg fans really only into them because of the anime meme? I could maybe understand unlimited but why not at least Frontier or minstrel song?

>went and watched an old xplay video that involved interviewing jrpg fans and fat cosplayers and neckbeards went on sbout how its "like playing an anime" while showing cutscenes from final fantasy or xenogears

>>3525515
because casuals anon

filthy casuals

>>3525515
Because most people like simple linear story focused RPGs and don't actually enjoy the role playing aspect of them at all. A real shame. Too many people were first exposed to JRPGs with games like FFVII and expect all games to be exactly like that. It's a miracle that Kawazu has been making games for this long.

>>3525515

It takes a certain kind of weird person to get through SaGa.

I wonder how the SFC Romancing titles were received when they were released, especially 2, which undoubtedly pushed countless children to tears when they played it.

>>3525782
>It takes a certain kind of weird person to get through SaGa.
Autism?
Im kidding but thats probably what most /v/ would say. SaGa is absolutely an acwuired taste

>>3525654
Id be lying if I said that ut wasnt the story that captivated me when I played FF as a kid. My first was actually FF1 and i always liked even though i was really bad at it. I can say that I'm pretty sure i liked jrpgs more than most of my peers. If it was just for the story, i probably wouldn't have played through 7 and 9 several times. I still consider replaying FF but then I remember the forced tutorials and the long, unskippable, scenes.

I was playing Breath of Fire 3 before i dove back into SaGa a few months ago, it has a really charming story and amazing pixel art but I dont think its a very good rpg. Its probably the perfect example of what was wrong with the genre, but i digress...

>>3524394
"Guide" in the sense of a walkthrough is unnecessary - the path progression is fairly straightforward.

However a game mechanics guide is really helpful in understanding what the hell you are doing. The in-game explanations are woefully inadequate and the game is punishing enough already if you aren't save-scumming.

It's one thing to learn by losses, but it's definitely quite possible due to the way the game is structured to hit a dead end and have to restart a playthrough completely from the beginning due to bad panel selection and lack of sidequests to keep re-arranging panels. 5 minutes spent reading about the game mechanics can easily save you months of frustration.

>>3525295
>>3525515
Honestly I feel it has nothing to do with "filthy casuals" and everything to do with documentation and feedback mechanisms.

Baldur's Gate was based on the very obtuse 2e ruleset, but came with enough documentation that allowed players to actually learn the rules. Games based on reflexes can also be very difficult (ex. Contra), but the method of improvement is very clear - learn the patterns.

There's a feedback loop in games - you try something, it fails, you realize that's not a good thing. In Unlimited Saga in particular, the game is simply not very good at letting you understand "why" you are failing and what you can do to improve.

You can definitely experiment, but I have far less time to play games than I once did - documented game mechanics cut a lot of speculation and superstition out and just saves a lot of time otherwise spent on devising and testing repeatable experiments.

There's still plenty of weird JRPGs coming out on the fringes - Crimson Shroud, for example was a literal tabletop simulation, down to using virtual miniatures for cutscenes.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXHSyqbo5ic

BELIEVING MY JUSTICE

BELIEVING.... IN SCARLET!

>>3525515
>Were the majority of jrpg fans really only into them because of the anime meme?
Well, yeah.
Not like WRPGs were much better off really, because they mostly attracted the EPIK FANTASY crowd, and now most of them turned into brothel or kinky sex simulators, hell, Skyrim is used to make waifus and porn clips of all things, the flavour might be different but it's still neckbeards we're talking about.

And to a degree this>>3525537, most people are casuals with ADHD or serious lack of imagination and curiosity and need their interactive movies filled with sensorial stimuli instead of proper gameplay.
For how much the west despises JRPG and labels them as light games for casuals it doesn't really help that most of the successful RPGs in the west are just as shallow as the most successful japanese RPGs, and when something like SaGa comes out they bitch and moan about strange mechanics, "unfair difficulty" and "bad stories and characters", and this comes from the same people who praise old games like WoW, Gothic or Nox, there was and there still is a lot of prejudice towards japanese RPGs.
Of course,>>3526145 makes a good point, SaGa was always very criptic whereas most western games always had better documentation and proper manuals, though I would argue that was due mostly because of the difference in platform, PC game manuals always were bigger than console game manuals. In any case that doesn't explain how the games were best sellers in japan with said lack of manuals, RomaSaGa 2 sold as much as CT, Frontier was one of the top 10 best selling PS RPGs of all time.
Then it doesn't help that most other non standard JRPGs like Lunatic Dawn never came in the west, though you can still argue that Metal Saga bombed hard here for some reason, and it's not like Metal Saga didn't have a decent manual either, opposed to SaGa games. It's a complex matter.
>>3526264
So you finally came in the lions' den Afendi.

>>3526486
This is more like a cameo of the character from the sequel in the remake of the first game than a full on appearance.

Not like I'm gonna be playing Unlimited SaGa and posting about it in this thread.

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>>3526486
Also to further add on this, while SaGa is indeed an acquired taste like others always said in this thread, you must also consider another factor in japan, that is the rift between the series fanbase and the other audience, magazine reviews included.

Most SaGa fans are adults in their late 20's or 30's now, other JRPG series have a more varied demographic when it comes to age, most of the fanbase also had very different opinions from reviews like Famitsu, the most striking case was RomaSaGa 2 which had the lowest critical score of 26 out of all the games in the series(yes, lower than Unlimited which was a 31) but it was a great commercial success and is the second most popular game in the series within the fanbase according to the latest NicoNico poll and general feedback you might find online, in Japan, RomaSaGa 2 is one of the most popular SFC games and RPGs of all time, despite receiving negative reviews.

SaGa is a peculiar series in many aspects down to the fanbase, you can't say the same for most other RPGs, western or japanese, many people in the fanbase actually enjoyed the challenge of needing to figure things out for yourself and I guess Kawazu and his teams realized that since to this day most information is still not visible to the player, the Ultimania guides for SaGa games are pretty much bricks of paper and only started to be really detailed very recently, look at the efforts spent in cracking the older games, RomaSaGa 2/3 cracking lasted to the early 2000 thanks to dedicated people like Endo-San, same in the west where comprehensive FAQs took many years to get done.
Then there's other stuff like RomaSaGa 3 impressive bulk of mods which says a lot about the fanbase's affection and respect for the game, you don't see this kind of effort for FF or DQ, SaGa just appeals to a specific kind of people more than most other franchises I'd say.
>>3526528
I thought you hated Unlimited, colours me surprised.

>>3526547
Oh nah, hate is too powerful a word.

There's very few things I actively hate, and I think you're familiar with one of them by now.

I just couldn't get into it, I guess. All the talk about it in this thread is getting me into the mood of giving it another go, but maybe when I've got more time. Already got enough on my plate.

>>3526551
You should really not think about it Afendi, even though it has been mentioned in this thread too.

>>3526547
>Most SaGa fans are adults in their late 20's or 30's now
that's an interesting tidbit to me. I would attribute my age to why i like SaGa and why I dislike many of the tropes of JRPGs. A loack of time due to real life responsibilties is a part opf it. I have seen the argument "I dont have time to learn the game" and that's a totally reasonable game. It depends on what you enjoy because for me, learning the game is enjoyable in and of itself and SaGa games are incredibly rewarding about that. Minstrel Song, being my first, was a hard game at first but now I think it's just right in terms of challenge because if you know what you're doing, you just breeze through the game at a good pace and seeing that progress happen is really rewarding. The parts of JRPGs I dont enjoy (forced tutorials, really long scenes of a cringey teen-angst story, and stale simple combat that really just boils down to just grinding for exp and levels) are what I personally dont have time for, SaGa just cuts out all the bullshit and sticks to the core of what makes these games engaging.

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>>3527054
That's more or less how I feel about it too.

However, what I meant to say is that most japanese and I suppose western SaGa fans too are old because they're lifelong fans, meaning they've been following the series since the first games and are now older than most fanbases, this is a stark contrast when you compare the general demographic with series like FF or the Falcom LoH series which kind of reivented itself to stay alive, most of those fanbases are more varied, going from young teens to a few older aficionados, SaGa however doesn't really have many fans that are younger than 20, the overwhelming majority is 25-28 and beyond.

Another thing I've noticed is that most SaGa fans in japan are rather creative in a way compared to other people, often making some rather cute things like pic related, keychains and some other stuff, which is curiously in theme with the late anniversary festival which focused on arts and crafts, they've been selling unique pieces of pottery handpainted personally by Kobayashi, porcelain sake sets with printed pixel art of the characters, yukata sets and that really classy and costly limited edition SaGa whiskey, that really isn't merchandise aimed at a young audience no matter how you look at it, it's not like Evangelion doritos or Final Fantasy potions/soda cans.

On one hand it's a bit depressing because the lack of younger fans means the series isn't really getting to the new generations and that doesn't bode well for the future of the franchise, on the other hand it's nice to see that the current fanbase is extremely loyal and dedicated, and it's good to see that there's definitely some mutual understanding between the fanbase and the producers.

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>>3527112
>Kobayashi
It's been said before, but man she's great.

Her art is lovely.

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>>3527168
Yeah, she's pretty great, SaGa wouldn't be the same without her art. Same for Itoken.

I've just been listening to the Imperial SaGa soundtrack and now I'm sad it'll never be translated.

>>3527484

Only one thing to do, anon.

I have come from a distant and most ancient land to test you.

What's your favorite SaGa game?

The fate of your planet will be determined by your responses.

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My two cents on the "Why isn't SaGa more popular in the West" thing is that JRPGs and WRPGs have been ghettoized to their respective communities for a really long time and people who enjoy both are kinda rare.

So you get JRPG fans weaned mostly on Final Fantasy-likes, where it's usually some kind of a linear, extremely easy path to the end filled with melodrama - just about the complete opposite of most SaGa games.

But the WRPG fans who would like concepts like non-linearity/complexity either will not hear about SaGa (because their communities would prefer talking about actual WRPGs) or be turned off by the "animu artstyle" because its "not muh D&D/Tolkien gritty fantasy"

Pic kinda related: A game that bombed because it was designed with War Game mechanics (fog of war, specific AP counts, weight limits on units, concept of Artillery support etc) but marketed to people whose basis of comparison is most likely Fire Emblem and anime grils/mecha turns away the bearded WW2 wargamer types.

>>3528786
this, but also most SaGa games don't take the time to explain their game mechanics to new players, except Minstrel Song which had those useful kids in each town

which SaGa game was the most well received in the west? FF legend II, I think?
could be because it was more linear than the average SaGa game

>>3528810
>which SaGa game was the most well received in the west? FF legend II, I think?
>could be because it was more linear than the average SaGa game
I think that was it, yeah.

It even got mostly positive reviews - and yes I know. >Game Journalism

and all that but I think it's basically the only SaGa game that did well in that department.

>>3528534
frontier followed by RS3 I guess

>>3528534
Right now
Minstrel Song
Ive only just started playing this one but, so far, Unlimited is looking to at least be my second favorite. I have to keep playing to say for sure

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>>3527484
The good thing of Imperial is that it also uses the other games' scores when you're doing scenarios from other games, it's a nice touch.
The game is also getting slowly better, they've recently added equipment from the other SaGa games and even added another option to Nora's workshop so she can upgrade all equipment pieces except accessories.
I wish they added some magic though, there's only a handful of spells in the game and it's painfully grindy to unlock them, though buffs and high tier magic is pretty broken.
A shame it was born as a browser game, without all the gacha shit and a more normal game design it would be great, all the interactions and comedic quests are pretty much what you'd expect from the characters.
>>3528534
Come on Afendi, drop the act already, people don't like excessive sillyness here.
>>3528786
Yeah that's another view on the matter I have to agree with.
>A game that bombed because it was designed with War Game mechanics
Didn't Power Dolls have some kind of niche following in Japan? I also remember hearing about the devs kind of resurrecting it at some point, or maybe I'm confusing it with some other niche mecha game.
>>3528810
Yeah SaGa 2/FFLII was the most successful game in the west, though it's hard to properly gauge which title is effectively the most well received given that the GB games only came out in the US while europeans only got into SaGa with SaGa Frontier 2.

>>3528534
SaGa Frontier>Unlimited SaGa>Minstrel Song

I haven't started playing RS2 yet I'm sorry

learning Japanese is time consuming and I have too much backlog

>>3529284
There are actually a lot of really complex and super fucking hard mecha games that come out of Japan, and I fucking love all of them.
>Zeonic Front
>Armored Core
>Front Mission
>Gunparade March
>Sakura Taisen
>CyberKnight/Assault Suits Valken 2
>Metal Max sort of counts
that shit makes me hard as diamonds

>>3528534
Makai Toushi SaGa's Wonderswan Color port will always be my favorite, even though later games are probably objectively better.

>>3529284

I'm from the EU and bought all 3 of the GB SaGa games in ordinary game stores back in the day, but aside from those we only got Frontier 2 and Unlimited until Romancing SaGa 2 came out recently.

How is Unlimited music so god-like, even without Itoken?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSrZhA0Tncc
I really love this intro as much as I do misntrel song. Its not the kind of folky sound of Minuet but its a great orchestral track with a lot of emotion in it.
I'm really loving Unlimited so far.

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What is this Ailment?
Speaking of, how do i cure ailments like poison while adventuring?

>>3529859
I believe that's darkness but don't quote me on that.

Ailments wear off over time, I think you can speed this along by resting (press L3 or R3 I forget which). To manually heal ailments immediately, you need to know water magic, and I believe the spell in question is "Purify".

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>>3529284
>Didn't Power Dolls have some kind of niche following in Japan? I also remember hearing about the devs kind of resurrecting it at some point
Confusion - the last game was in 2009 and it was a remake of the 1st game.

Then there was some sort lived Browser Game.

The recent company 100th Anniversary is like the only signs it showed some activity of life - mostly just fanart when people care to remember it

>>3528534
Would I be crucified by everyone in this thread is I said I liked Unlimited SaGa a lot but don't like the rest of the series?
I've given the others a shot but they feel starkly different from Unlimited.

>>3530371
I am currently playing through unlimited actually, I'm still near the start but I'm really enjoying what I've been playing so far. My current favorite is Minstrel Song but I feel like I may like Unlimited jsut as much by the end of it, unless I encounter something that I think is garbage but i dont think that'll happen.
I'm playing as ventus and I actually just spent an hour just doing carrier quests and just traveling across the overworld is really interesting.
That music is comfy af:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyleSEAz96g

I think Unlimited probably has the best replay value. As a pure gaming experience it's great. It has the greatest quality of "what even is my playthrough going to be like this time"

Just started Emelia's scenario in SF and I can't go anywhere without getting sucked into Tanzer. I haven't done the rune quests before so I dunno whats in store for me. Is this something I can easily do with a low level party?

>>3530649
It's not too bad actually, you might have to pick up fei-on

>Accidentally overwrite a Panel
>cant go back
>just spent a long time in a dungeon and dont want to soft reset and do it all again
Th-thanks Unlimited. At least I can just do a couple of carrier quests and get new panels to fix it

>>3530673
Alright cool. That's a relief.

>[Phobia Panels] Easy to get if you have received a lot of LP damage from a certain monster race.
>Tiffon has a phobia of undead
>Briza was (maybe?) killed by a Vampire
Coincidence?

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>>3527112
>It doesn't bode well for the future of the franchise
It is pretty much dead once Kawazu passes on.
>>3525515
Probably due to how different it is. It isn't even because some of the later games are non-linear, even some of the Gameboy games catch flak due to how they don't conform to the norms of what a JRPG "should" be. Hell even Final Fantasy II and its growth mechanics are hated, especially since it isn't as easily gauge-able experience point pool that ticks over to a level up. Suddenly you have three races that develop radically differently from one another and none of them are by your standard RPG conventions? Piled with that you are just given basic mechanics on how they work and you just have to figure the rest out yourself since the games don't hold your hand?

Yeah most people that play JRPG's don't like SaGa due to such things along with that most games aren't story centric, which is why there seems to be a decent amount of people gravitating towards SaGa Frontier 2 due to it being much more story centric than the other games in the series. These games didn't need tons of exposition or filling the player in with a lot of text on the plot, it let you loose to explore with some NPC's that sometimes nudge you in a direction and you just unfolded the story by exploring the world. You finally get access to the tower that goes to paradise and you are bombarded by nasty monsters and then leads to tropical islands but yet the tower still goes higher.

You don't need a game to tell you that because you can see it while you play it.

>>3529342
I see you're a fellow /m/an.
But you forgot Carnage Heart.
Though I'd really like some nice and simple mecha game in the vein of Mad Stalker right now, hopefully the new Vanillaware mecha game will deliver on that, at least gameplaywise.
>>3529459
>I'm from the EU and bought all 3 of the GB SaGa games in ordinary game stores back in the day
Really? I never saw them in the stores where I live when I was a kid, guess I was mistaken on which games didn't come out here.
>>3530191
>Then there was some sort lived Browser Game.
I guess that's what I heard about on /m/ some time ago.
>>3530371
That's your taste, Unlimited is pretty different from the rest of the series so I can understand why you would like that but not the rest of the series, which is admittedly more "traditional". My favorites are RomaSaGa 2 and Unlimited in second place, and even then I have to admit there's nothing that can reach Unlimited on a purely mechanical level and overall game design, now if it did have Kobayashi's art and a few more quests I'd be able to go beyond the minimalistic dungeon maps. Honestly, if the game had that it would be my favorite RPG ever, though I must say I didn't like the story or characters too much, with the exception of Laura, Anzam, Musol Yanii and Grace.
>>3530690
>Coincidence?
Certain panels are related to the characters' stories, see how Kurt has his own cursed gauntlet panel, Josef has Arcane Tongue and why Ruby starts with Fortuneteller LV1 and Sapphire starts with Fortuneteller LV4.
>>3530780
>You don't need a game to tell you that because you can see it while you play it.
Go tell that to most people though, I remember the old /jrpgg/ threads where people would sing praise of TiTS' story and writing because it had hundreds of pages of NPC and PC text scripts, most people think that a game with little text and cutscenes has a shitty story or no story at all.

All you nerds gushing over Unlimited SaGa made me give in and order it. I played it about ten years ago and hated it. Hopefully I'll be able to enjoy it now.

Speaking of Unlimited SaGa, does anyone remember the contest that was launched for whoever would be able to give proof of finishing the game first?

>>3528829
On release, I remember all 3 GB SaGas getting stellar reviews.

>>3530885
I'm from the EU as well, and I did find them in ordinary stores as well, but they were imports, pretty sure they never got a proper release.

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So i did some research on Growth Panels last night and I think I understand them better now but now I think maybe that my current organization could be better. How are these panels for ventus looking, did I mess up?

On a completely separate note, i'm emulating this game even though i had ordered a physical copy because I'm experiencing some technical trouble. Either my copy of the game is bad or my ps2 is showing its age but; while the game otherwise runs fine, in battle, it takes a long time for a battle animation to begin. The game appears to have a soft freeze where the battle just idles and the battle song will loop a single section. It can hang there for over a minute sometimes, it's pretty bad, so I tried emulating it and it turns out that emulation is just better in every way. Unlike most action games, like Godhand or Metal Gear Solid 3, where I experience tons of slowdown in emulation, Unlimited runs very well with no noticeable graphical glitches and barely any slowdown at all.
I'm a little annoyed that I paid for a copy when i could have just done this for free but it was only 5 dollars so it's no big loss, I can at least justify it to myself in that I do own a physical copy.

>>3531251
>that guy second from the right

That is prime reaction image material right there.

>>3531170
Hope you get into it Anon.
>>3531231
>but they were imports
Ah, that explains it, I was pretty sure they weren't published in here, though I guess some countries were more import heavy than others.
>>3531251
Yeah, Vearst's face is pretty hilarious and the game has quite a lot that can be used for OC, can't wait for Anon to get to the Edgelord boss fight.
Actually, if my PC's Ram wasn't croaking I'd do some OC of that myself but PS2 emulation is kinda unstable right now.

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Have a quick Vearst reaction image I cooked on a whim.

>>3531392
>A-am I gonna die?

>>3531298
>Hope you get into it Anon.
I hope so too. When I played it before I was wanting a more "traditional" JRPG, but now I'm kind of bored with all that and want something new and unique.

>>3531392
>>3531395
Goddammit Vearst, stop being so useless!
I still cant hate the guy

>>3531251
Definitely something wrong with the PS2; Unlimited sometimes had a few long load times but never outright slowdowns.

As for the panels right now it looks like you've got him as some sort of utility guy? Keep in mind the really big powerhouse gains, especially for a physical attacker, are in setting up a line - like a line of unarmed running from the strength sections elsewhere.

>>3530676
>>Accidentally overwrite a Panel
>>cant go back
but you can reset your panels at the panel screen to re do your choices endlessly

also how are you not quicksaving all the time in a saga game

>>3531395
>I BET I'M NEXT
>>3531432
As long as you truly want something unique Unlimited will deliver on that, no doubt.
>>3531476
>I still cant hate the guy

I don't think there's anyone you can really hate in Unlimited, except Mythe, fuck Mythe.

>>3531807
I hate Roy tho

>>3531720
>but you can reset your panels at the panel screen to re do your choices endlessly
Please teach me your waus, i cant figure out how to do that
And quicksaving isnt like on MS, it returns to main menu. Unless you mean save states but thats not the Authentic Experience™ my man

>>3531884
Oh right

you can only hard save and suspend in unlimited

I guess because adventures only last like 30 minutes

but no when you're at the screen at the end of a quest where it's asking you where you want to put your panels, you will get to a part where it asks you "hey are you okay with these choices?" at which point you can say "nope" and it will revert all the decisions back to the way they were before you assigned anything.

>>3531907
>at which point you can say "nope" and it will revert all the decisions back to the way they were before you assigned anything.
Aw man, i kept mashing buttons to try and go back but i thought i was locked in, i didnt even try that. Thanks anon.
I do have triangle of Key panels on tiffon and i gave the Anubis guy a line of martial arts so i do have that at least. Im a little sad that i havent found any prompts for the Obstacle Crossing because i dont want to overwrite that. Ive prettu much bern doing carrier missions exclusively because they're so profitable. Ive gotten a a ton of money just from finding numerous chests.

>>3531942
Tiffon is a tough character to plan for but she's generally better with two edge lines of Martial Arts and Keys, with one Dagger/Bow panel leaving one dump panel slot

it's theoretically possible to have her as a lightweight martial artist with a martial triangle and key triangle, but you'll keep breaking your triangles every time you don't get an upgrade or a replacement for your third key panel.

It works out with the edge line of keys because you only really NEED to have defuse and pick locks, sharp eye is mainly so you can check for mimics and trip them on purpose for magic tablets

You know what is nice about this thread? There arent any idiots sperging out about how games like Unlimited or MS arent "retro" and saying we cant talk about them here.

>>3532291
play it cool nerdlinger

>>3532291

I'd assume it's because this thread is completely self contained

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Scarlet Grace Famitsu Scans, don't know if there's any new or interesting info

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>>3532728

>>3532728
Now I am terrible at Japanese and basically can't read any kanji, but from what I gathered it has incremental status gains after battle, it uses the glimmer system (well obviously), it has a sequential turn order displayed at the bottom of the screen allowing you to actually have some idea of what the turn order will be next turn, similar to FFX, and it uses the Romancing SaGa formation system with 5 characters, though I'm not sure if that also includes the commander mode concept, though it looks like you can level up your formations to get new or better versions.

I think it's pretty much a given that combos, RS3 style actions using multiple characters, or possibly both are likely to be present.

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>>3532291
Speaking of not-/vr/, what about Legend of Legacy? It got billed as a "spiritual successor" to SaGa, but how true is that? It did have Kobayashi and Hamazu on art and music respectively, but would you consider it related to the series?

>>3532859
I think the consensus here is that it's a casual game for babby

>>3532859

I haven't played it and it's hard to judge it just by reviews because they've got the same exact complaints about actual saga games

>in a dungeon for 422 turns and have no clue where to get the dragonheart
Where did it all go so wrong...

>>3532728
That group at the top of the page are beyond cool.

Judging from the circles behind their heads, I guess they're supposed to be gods, but I don't recall hearing anything about them in past articles.

>>3532859
>It got billed as a "spiritual successor" to SaGa, but how true is that?
It has shit like sparking techs and I guess it's technically non-linear (but it lacks a lot of context that comes along with SaGa's non-linearity since it's basically nothing but combat areas after combat areas in LoL.)

It's just too mechanically simple and pared down to be a satisfying "SaGa spiritual successor" to me

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Oh yeah baby, after nearly two hours and 525 turns, I finally completed the Monster-Filled Knights Temple quest and got to see the the Festival cutscenes for Ventus.
T-Truly, a display of high level Unlimited SaGa gameplay, gents~
I didn't even get good Panels.

>>3532996
Honestly some of the best moments in Unlimited SaGa are when you don't actually know if you're going to get out alive

>>3532291
I guess these threads have kinda become self contained like the Doom threads, not that I mind, /vr/ is in terrible shape since a year or so and this is one of the last places where there's little to no shitposting and people can have a civil conversation.
>>3532728
>>3532732
That's great Anon.
Though at a quick glance it mostly talks about what we've seens in the TGS, There's Sparking, Formations which influence characters' stats and the new BP(Brave Point) system, a new version of the variable stat system and the new Timeline System in which you can see turns.
The new scenario system is called Free World System in which players' choices can inflence and change the world, I guess they're also talking about the difference in the maps they showed between Leonard and Taria. In the TGS Report interview on the second page Kawazu says that he read the feedback from the TGS stream and they're working on reducing loading times while keeping the game's "balance", I guess he's talking about stable framerate or something, the framerate also looks pretty high by the way, also, Urpina's big brother is called Antonius, then there's Elizabeth, Kahn and Sigfrey.
Neat post Anon, thanks again.
>>3532979
I suppose they're the Star Gods, the ones who banished Firebringer/Akumetsu in the events before the creation and fall of the Empire, apparently there will be a system like Minstrel Song or the SaGa 2 remake when you can get blessing from some of them depending on your actions or choices. Kawazu already implied that gods will play a big role in the story and game so I guess we'll have to keep an eye out for those.
>>3532996
You'll get better with time Anon, Unlimited isn't a game you can master with just a few hours of gameplay.

>>3533198
>they're working on reducing loading times while keeping the game's "balance",

As expected of the master.

The load times are the only major issue they have, if they can fix that then Scarlet Grace will be a really great game.

I'm not too fussed about the lack of dungeons, since the game looks like it'll have content to make up for it.

Now about that English release...

>>3533227
Judging by the fact that they did localize the RomaSaGa 2 remaster, they'll probably release the game and it will bomb like always.

I mean, you know how it goes, we've talked about it times and again, Kawazu listens to the western fans, decides to localize it, the game bombs, Squenix Execs get mad and there's another 10 years without any SaGa game in the west or without SaGa at all, unless he pulls some TLR 2.0, or maybe now that we're past the Dark Ages of Wada things will go better, who knows.

It doesn't help that the western audience is full of graphic whore casuals, but games like SaGa never do well in the west, not even Legend of Legacy sold well and it's a much more accessible and casualized SaGa clone, hell, see Tales of Hearts R, of all the problems in the game people here complain about graphics, on a handheld console.

>>3533241
Let's be optimistic. I think RPG fans have changed over the years and will hopefully be more accepting of a game like SaGa.

The graphics aren't exactly SUPER HIGH DEFINITION 4K MEGAPIXEL but at the very least it's got a nice art style, great music, and a bunch of interesting systems that might appeal to people hoping for games outside of the norm.

Let's positive thinking, Anonymous, and perhaps we'll be rewarded for it.

Ok, seriously, picked up Minstrel's Song, playing it, having a great time being confused as fuck. This game does nor hold your hand at all. How do I synthesize spells? I'm a Rosalian Mage, have the spells learned needed to make synth, but what next? There is no button prompt in the Combat menu I am seeing. Is it somewhere else?

>>3533262
press triangle in the spell menu

>>3533262
nvm, Yes, It is in the Status menu. Jesus Christ game.

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>>3533248
>I think RPG fans have changed over the years and will hopefully be more accepting
of a game like SaGa.
I hate to break it to you Afendi, but you're way too optimistic for your own good.
The people in this thread are an exception to the rule.
>>3533262
Go to the spell menu in the main menu and press triangle, keep in mind that the game doesn't really give you any indication on how to obtain fusion spells so most of the times you'll get a souped up basic spell, you'd better read a guide if you don't have the time to search for them by yourself.

I just downloaded SaGa Frontier 2 on my Vita, now I'm one step further on my plan to turn it into the ultimate SaGa machine. Let's hope those people working on the Vita port of Desmume don't give up. The fact that you can also have a legit PocketStation app is pretty neat, I can finally play the Go!Go!Digger minigame. Though now I'm wondering why the western manual gave away all the waza combinations while there's nothing of the sort on the JP manual.

>>3533867
>I hate to break it to you Afendi, but you're way too optimistic for your own good.
Anonymous, I still believe in the good inherent in the hearts of men.

I do accept that maybe I am being too bright for my own good, but the truth is that we don't know what's in store for the franchise.

So, let's positive thinking.

So, Im kind of having a hard time getting TLR. My problem is that its far less open than I was hoping...
I thought it would be structured more like a SaGa game but the only thing that feels SaGa about it is the battle system and said battle sysyem feels like its being held back by the rest of the game. I'm still in the early hours of the game and I'm sure it will pick up if im patient.

What annoys me is that it just wont let me dive into the game proper. My opinion started to turn south when Rush leaves the castle to go off on his own and i thought the game was finallly going to start but two short sidequests later, only one of which had a battle and im back to linear story missions with guest units i can't control. Why cant i use more than 3 units when i can afford more and why is blacksmith STILL closed? I feel like the game is afraid of overwhelming the player so it holdd your hand for a long time. That said, the opening battle that was probably intended to impress casuals probably scared them away the moment the word "Deadlock" appeared.

>>3534142
it opens up after you beat the flame idol

>>3534142
You're barely into the game, give it some time.

All this talk of Unlimited is making me want to dig out my copy and give it another try, I've got so many other games in my backlog though...

>>3535202

>tfw lurking this thread while playing through Dragon Quest 7

It's hard, dude. I know that if I stop playing this game I won't go back to it and I'll never beat it in my lifetime, but I wanna play SaGa so bad. I wanna give RS2 another try.

>>3535202
>>3535227
Go forth, children of man.

Go forth and SaGa

>>3533927
> the truth is that we don't know what's in store for the franchise.
Everything has a beginning and an ending. SaGa was mainly Kawazu's brainchild. He is getting old. The truth is once he either retires or dies that is when the franchise will as well. At best if the franchise will be picked up again it will just ape mechanics that have been featured in SaGa games, or worse, normalize the mechanics to what is deemed standard.

The sort of optimism you should be looking for is another entry into the series since Kawazu is still at the helm along with localization's. Don't have high expectations that the run of the mill JRPG fan will like this series, nor that its legacy will continue decades from now with new entries.

>>3533867
I'm jealous. Would like SaGa Frontier 1 on PSN in the west, and still waiting on Romancing SaGa 2 for the Vita.

>>3535202
It's not like your copy is gonna vanish all of a sudden, take your time.
>>3535227
>Dragon Quest 7
Now that's being caught between a rock and a hard place, you'd probably manage to finish RomaSaGa 2 three times using the same amount of time you'll need to just finish DQ7.
>>3535573
>The truth is once he either retires or dies that is when the franchise will as well.
I try not to think about it, especially since Kawazu is getting old and with the pace of SaGa we'll probably get another mainline game and that's it, if we're lucky we'll get a few remakes in between like RomaSaGa 3 or Frontier but I don't see him making more than that. Unless younger people like Takai become Kawazu's heirs, an even then I doubt they're as much of a madman as he is, Legend of Legacy failed to deliver and while TLR is a good game it lacks the SaGa flair.
Guess that when Kawazu retires I'll stop playing turn based RPGs altogether, why bother playing shallow clones or bland grindfests?

By the by, I think the JP version of Frontier 2 runs a bit better than the western one, it saves and loads much faster, or maybe it's just that the Vita built in emulator is particularly good, though the audio does stutter a tiny bit during battle transitions if you're running the Pockestation app at the same time. Still, not being able to take screenshots is a pain in the ass, fucking $ONY.
It's amazing how the loading times of both Frontier are basically nonexistent compared to other turn based RPGs on the system though, say what you will about cut content but damn they run well.

Newsflash, Yusuke Naora quit Squenix, no more uncanny valley doll for a potential SaGa remake I guess.

https://twitter.com/NaoraYusuke/status/782236711824691200

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>>3535573
>another entry into the series
That would definitely be great.

This is completely aside, but sort of related. I've been rewatching the anime Overlord recently. It's an anime about an MMO player who gets transferred to a fantasy world and inheriting the stats, skills, and equipment of his character.

The MMO in the anime, Yggdrasil, honestly reminds me of the original SaGa trilogy.

There are multiple races, and they all work differently, and they have classes to go along with them.

I'd love to see Kawazu go back to the SaGa style of designing your own team members, having a variety of races to choose from, and things like that.

It'd be cool.

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>>3535616
>I'd love to see Kawazu go back to the SaGa style of designing your own team members, having a variety of races to choose from, and things like that.
I don't see him going back to the customizable generic templates, he never brought it up in a mainline game since SaGa 2, even SaGa 3 didn't have true generics. though he did use the idea for FFCC to an extent, maybe he doesn't think there's much more to do with the system and I guess that with time people came to like the simplistic unique MCs and their crazy stories.

What I'd like him to go back to is something more than that, namely elaborating on the Roles mechanic from Frontier 2, expanding on the panel system and Unlimited's system in general, use Frontier 2's unique quirk of being able to innately cast different magic schools/elements depending on the environment and the Hybrid waza system of fusing magic and waza, I'd also like to see the generation shifts from RomaSaGa 2 come back, that's a great mechanic that Frontier 2 didn't quite reenact, add all of this to the basic template and make the game use 2D sprites in a 3D environment and I don't need any other RPG for the rest of my life, going back on the Commander Mode would also be really neat.
Alas, this is but a pipe dream, and it would also go against Kawazu's philosophy of making every SaGa game have it's unique features, but the idea of a SaGa "All Star" mechanics game is simply too good to pass on.

>>3535645
>SaGa "All Star" mechanics game
I get the feeling that Scarlet Grace is basically that? It may not be using everything, but, on the surface, it definitely gives off the feeling as "bringing together the best of SaGa" while still being true to Kawazu's philosophy.

>>3535674
>I get the feeling that Scarlet Grace is basically that?
Nah, it doesn't even seem to have normal combos, I think it's far from that.

It seems that Kawazu is now trying to make the entire world a living dungeon and is focusing on cast, events and event variations this time, he's going back and expanding on classic formation mechanics while changing the pace of the game with the new BP system being a collective pool. I can see field skills coming back, every game since Unlimited has them and I doubt he's going to drop them considering we saw LP traps in the map, I don't think we'll get panels or similar mechanics but with Kawazu you'll never know until you have the game in your hands.

It's the usual good load of changes to the main system, rebalances to the growth system and a different take on existing features, but it's far from being a comprehensive compendium of the series mechanics. Though it seems he's taking some moves from his other, lesser known game, Wild Card, the menu layout for locations seem very reminiscent of Wild Card's design, though of course it won't be as batshit insane, if he were to add Wild Card's main gimmick to the SaGa template shit would get way too much for common mortals to even comprehend.

>>3535691

>Wild Card

Reading up on this and it sounds really cool, makes me wonder how deep the wonderswan rabbit hole goes.

>>3535227
I know the feeling. I've been trying to work through SMT IV A before I play anymore SaGa games. I don't even like it all that much.

>>3536039
>makes me wonder how deep the wonderswan rabbit hole goes.

You have no idea, you might end up not liking the gameplay because of it's "random" and too symbolic gameplay but as far as cardgames go it's borderline insane in design for something of that size, it's unadultered Kawazuism in portable form.
Literally everyting in the game is a card, your items, weapons, techs, monsters, even the characters you meet in the game, down to the very actions you have to take in dungeons or cities, imagine it as a RPG campaing in which a GM has a deck with multiple subdecks that get reshuffled after every decision, and also get altered the further you play in the game, it's not for everyone and it does have its fair amount of flaws but it's something only him could conceive, it's like MTT meets DnD.

>>3536050
Whats wrong with smt 4?

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>grinding waza in the ruins of Hahn
>lose to Soul Crunch spams by Ghosts
>reload quick save
>let me think about my strategy for a moment
>waste almost an hour doing nothing but dozing off to the BGM

>>3536307
You can just use Delta Petra on ghosts anon

>>3536570
>You can just use Delta Petra on ghosts anon
That's what I do, but there were two of them with a skelly this time, skelly stun Wil on first turn, the ghosts Soul Crunched Cody and Tyler and they repeated that next turn, can't do much about it. And Delta Petra doesn't always petrify them unfortunately, I had a few close calls as well, at least Soul Crunch doesn't affect LPs.
Though seriously, I can't learn Guard Beast or Regenerate in this playthrough, I've been dueling for an hour or so and neither Wil nor Tyler managed to learn either. Cody did spark Axe and Spear techs pretty fast though.

>>3536591
Just duel the Skeleton. That's what it's actually there for.

>>3536735
That's what I have to do but I need to grind Wil's HP first though, if skelly does a Cross Cut it kills Wil in one turn, Regenerate or not.
I'll see how much it takes today to learn either spells, I usually alternate between Wil and Tyler because Tyler can take a beating and can also learn martial arts.

>>3536184
I dunno. It's not bad, but the story is kind of shit. The tone is less serious and more like a Persona game. Every time I start playing it I just want to play more SaGa.

So, I've gone to Gruegel as Wil.
Remember the guard in front of the gate that gives you a combo if you talk to him a few times?
Well, turns out that in the JP version he can be recruited as a digger in the Go!Go!Digger Pocketstation minigame, his name is Masa.
I don't know whether you can do that in the localized versions since I never got a Pocketstation back in the day, there is data for the Seven Star sword but I don't know whether you can access it or not if you got one.
Still, I thought I'd share this particular with you, I send him digging two times and got two axes, basically you select a character and put a timer up to 99 minutes, once the time's up you receive an item that you can take or drop, you can also send the items you find to another pockestation, the Vita Pocketstation app also allows you to do the same through the Ad-Hoc connection, it's pretty neat, now if only I could take a screenshot of the cute Ginny pixelart...

>>3537772
I used to really like persona, id even say persona 3 was the game that paved the way to my interest in more hardcore jrpgs, but after persona 4 and what that game turned into, i cant help but turn my nose up from the SMT series in general. I liked 4 even if I didnt think it was as good as 3 but seeing it get turned into a shameless cash cow that pandered to people who would only praise "muh waifus" while complaining about AI partners made me kind of lose respect for Megaten in general.

>>3538331
>id even say persona 3 was the game that paved the way to my interest in more hardcore jrpgs
Now this is curious, most people in here would say that Nocturne was the game that did that, at least, SMT fans that is.

>>3538382
I haven't played Nocturne, myself. Growing up, i usually only had FF, like most people, mostky because i was poor and lived a tint mountain town so it was all i had. I hadnt even heard of SMT until i saw a review of p3 on x-play, back in the day. I still have a bit of a desire to play Digital Devil Saga but i d8nt know if ill care to play nocturne

>>3537752
learn guard beast by dueling the skeleton with tyler or cody

>>3538537
I only had FF for the most part growing up too, but one day my dad got me nocturne for my birthday, and at first I was kinda just like "wtf is this shit", but after I played it, I realized my dad had good taste, or luck when it came to blind picking video games as presents

should def play nocturne, its great.

>>3538331
Persona 4 is almost nothing like the rest of the SMT series. Most of them are brutally unforgiving first person dungeon crawlers similar to Wizardry, with a greater emphasis on plot and combat rather than cartography and puzzle solving. You should really play Nocturne and Digital Devil saga, and understand that the target audience of SMT as a series in general is probably actual adults who play videogames. Only the new Personas and Devil Survivor are made for teens.

>>3538537
You should play Nocturne, imho it's pretty much the best mainline SMT all around, it does have its flaws but it covers them very well, much better game than P3 if you like SMT.
>>3538547
I gave up and got to the great desert during the first Megalith quest, for some reason I can't learn spells easily during duels, which is puzzling because Wil learned Regenerate, Mindscape and Magmaxplosion while fighting frogs right after I stopped dueling, I don't know anything about any kind of learning rate rebalancing between versions so I guess I'm just being particularly unlucky this time around.

>>3538618
Characters each have their own spark lists of techs they're capable of learning, which is why you won't see certain spells until the end of the game, and there's also the factor that the techs themselves actually have a different difficulty for learning from duels or from normal battles when using other techniques.

The tough skeleton from the ruins of Hahn actually has the highest spark rate for a good long while, all the way until you can fight the Griffins that drop Water Mirrors actually, so if you wanted to get some of those learning Guard Beast from the skelly would have been a good idea. (you can also do the quests out of order to get the Ice Lance before fighting them which helps a lot, since Cody's Acupuncture is typically the best way to kill them)

I'm not sure if you can go to Laubholz without completing the quest that has those Griffins, but Laubholz has it's own problem of almost every non-repeatable fight there having some incredibly important rare item drop like even a group of zombies dropping an incredibly desirable lake robe (Stardust Robe, Lake Robe, and Blackstone Armor being pretty much the only armor choices that matter if you want to fight the Egg at full power).

>>3538681
I guess I should mention that -none of this matters- if you're not an insane perfectionist like me who has to do this shit every time I play the game

>>3538681
I know, but I've been telling you, I've dueled skeletons for over an hour and I got no Guard Beast at all, I even tried getting Rock Armor and failed to until I got to the desert and got it on my first fight with an ant of all things, I don't want to waste hours fighting skellies that can likely oneshot Wil at any given time if they feel like it, I can try and learn Guard beast later.
>I'm not sure if you can go to Laubholz without completing the quest that has those Griffins
That's a good question but I'm not going to bother finding out during this playthrough, I'm more interested in finding out what I can do with the minigame and seeing what's different in the JP version of the script, didn't even know that the various levels of the basic spells had their own names instead of being called simply Tree, Stone etc.
Besides, afaik in the JP version the Egg's Starquake doesn't sap LPs so I have one huge problem less, guess I'll still need to get a mystic veil or two though.

>>3538550
Speaking of FF, i was thinking about giving FF2 another chance. I really hated it at first but thinking back, it might have been a precursor to the SaGa in how its leveling system works. I might just like it more.

While 12 and 1 are my personal favorite FF games, i want to talk about 6. A lot of people say 6 is the best 2d game in the series but I think the first half of the game is total slog until you get to the World of Ruin. Thats apparently a controversial opinion because the WoR apparently "has no story" and is all padding and side quests. Thats why I love it though. Once you're off the island and you find Setzer, the game is completely open from that point on and you can gather the team in any order you want, you use the characters you want to use, or even just go straight for Kefka. I also personally enjoy the more somber tone of the 2nd half, its where story really comes together for me.

>>3538564
>>3538618
If i can get over the flaws of SaGa and have it as a favorite jrpg series, i think i could enjoy DDS and Nocturne. Ill give them a chance.

I was talking strictly about jrpgs but if you wanna talk about just rpgs in general, Fallout 1 was the game that really got me into the genre for life. This might be weird but i'm loving Unlimited SaGa for similar reasons why I love Fallout 1. A big appeal is not just the combat but rather, what you do out of it. The appeal of sandbox-like nature of rpgs with open ended solutions to conflicts that involve a characters limited but unique talents is becoming a lost art, i feel like.

>>3538712
FFII is the proto SaGa, most people hate it because of that, some people who like SaGa can appreciate it for the same reason while others think it's way too archaic and flawed and would rather play an actual SaGa game.
I love it personally, I only got to play it with the PS Origins remake and instantly fell in love with it, which is also what made me discover SaGa because there was an Unlimited: Saga advertisement in it, no wonder since Kawazu produced the remake.
>Thats apparently a controversial opinion
FF fans, and most JRPG "fans", want their linear visual novels on rails, they hate the open world concept because it lacks a clear direction, which is what they like about the series, I enjoy FFVI for your very same reason.
>Fallout 1 was the game that really got me into the genre for life.
That explains why you like Unlimited so much, it was either that or Baldur's Gate.

I personally got into RPGs with Castle of the Winds, which is probably the reason why I can't bring myself to play any DQ related game but played the shit out of Torneko's mystery dungeon.
I kind of agree with your opinion on RPGs becoming more and more stale with time, that kind of Sim-RPGs is truly rare to come by these days, but truth to be told, the trend is anything but recent, I think it was mostly a late 80's/90's phenomenon really.
Then again, even most of the decent CRPG of the early 2000 got progressively shittier, see what happened with Gothic, another series I mourn pretty often, and while I do love it Gothic wasn't even that mechanically good when it came to battles and general stat management, it was actually pretty shitty compared to Daggerfall, but damn that love they put in the roleplaying and characters, you don't see shit like that today.

>>3538712

Ah, I actually got back into JRPGs with Persona 3 as well. I went on to play Nocturne, and I have to say it's definitely a must-play. The gameplay is tougher and more customizable than the average JRPG (nowhere near as nuanced as SaGa but still good) and it's got an incredibly good atmosphere and mood that mainline SMT titles all share. It's also got a bunch of endings and a pretty tough secret final boss.

DDS is great too but a lot easier and more story-focused.

Unlimited Saga came in today. It's a lot more tolerable than I remember but super dense. Guess I'm going to spend the night reading about the mechanics instead of actually playing it.

>>3539707

I hope you enjoy it. Man, everybody talking about it ITT is making me want to try it, too, but I'm in the middle of so much other vidya.

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>>3539707
>>3539712
I started playing Unlimited again JUST NOW

I was pretty far in Laura's quest

Michelle is fucking beast as a glass cannon

This of course helps her be tankier

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>>3539805
I just reached Nivacolina as a part of Ventus' story. Im prodding along I suppose. At first, i thought Vearst was going to be a tanky melee character but he seems like he'd actually be more appropriate using magic. I'm still unsure on how magic works in this game. I'm trying to encourage him to learn water magic and have him studying a tablet but I don't know if it a water spell and he has only an earth familiar. I'm kind of just hoping he'll get a water familiar panel.

>>3539854
I think you get water arts by tempering an item with ravenite, but then you have to already know water arts. If you want to study magic and you don't have a familiar, you pretty much have to use a magic shop item with a spell included on it, and use Quick-Fix to keep it's durability up.

>>3539854
Also, in terms of how to build Vearst, you are correct in thinking that water is pretty much his only option. The strategy is to load him down with as much weight as possible while still giving him effective defenses, and use the field skills (obstacle crossing, etc.) that give a bonus to water and endurance in a Line to shore up his awful endurance stat. Then you can do something like put him at the front of the formation in a boss fight, have him cast buffs or healing on himself, and tank (hopefully) most of the bosses attacks with his LP and horrible slowness, thereby freeing up the rest of your allies to wreck shit after he does a good job getting hurt.

Making him into an actually effective water mage is probably going to require a lot more effort than you want to put in on your first playthrough, since you have to go on a few adventures having him solely use magic A LOT and get VERY LUCKY to have him learn magic blender, and on top of that you'll have to go through probably a lot of magic tablets late in the game when enemies are stronk af in order to get the high level water magic necessary to blend the spells that make a water mage actually capable of doing decent damage.

>>3538083
>Vita Pocketstation app
Which I guess is Japan only?

>>3539273
DDS has some of the toughest fights in the franchise however (and possibly, turn-based RPGs in general, considering battles you're supposed to win at least), they really went all-out with these.

But anyway, DDS 1+2 should be played by virtue of story alone.

>>3539805
Michelle is a GOAT attacker if you don't mind her subpar LP, Silver from Minstrel Song is kinda reminiscent of her on that side, I also really like her sprite.
I always wanted to max her out and solo the final bosses with her, maybe I'll do that next time I get back into Unlimited.
>>3539915
>thereby freeing up the rest of your allies to wreck shit after he does a good job getting hurt.
It's pretty hilarious when you think about Vearst being so scared of fighting, making him a tank is as sadistic and morbid as possible considering his character.
>>3540316
Seems like it, it's not like you can't make a JP profile and download it though, what matters is whether the localized versions of the games have the content needed to make it work since you need to download the game's program onto the Pocketstation.

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>>3507610
>NO FUTURE
What IF all the mechs and cyborgs in the games were cute little grills, anon?

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>cruising along in Laura's scenario
>no troubles whatsoever
>SUDDENLY A GAUNTLET
>almost completely wipe to bone dragon asshole
Laura seriously had 1 LP left
I was considering actually just stopping and reloading the turn before I won

>>3541552
I love when you win those fights, is there anything more satisfying?

>>3541649
it's pretty great ngl

gonna finish up my Laura playthrough tomorrow, I should be ready once Henri learns some Dagger arts and Michelle learns some spear arts

for some reason Laura and Francis are fucking sword and axe masters, just way ahead of everyone else

Actually I should get Judy to learn seal of abyss too

I feel like I'm never gonna get magic blender

>>3542135
I should be playing Unlimited but Subnautica had an update and I decided to start over till i get to a satisfactory point. I also spent like 3 hours playing street fighter 3 with friends today
JUST TOO MANY GAMES

Squaring up with RS2 for the fourth or so time, wish me luck.

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>>3542182
Good luck, my man

>>3541552
I still remember my first fight with the Lich when I ended up winning with only Ruby and Iskandar alive, good times.
>>3542182
You can do it Anon, just remember not to grind and invest in fusion magic ASAP, we'll help you out if you can't beat something.
Don't forget to snatch the Somon Ring in the mansion too.

>>3541151
Then someone would be bound to be burned.

Some questions for 2.

Last Emperor!

1.Can I get skill to the Dojo without generationshift? Since Im in the last timeline, I can't skip year. I'm at 1995.

2. How can I enter the southern parts of the map? I know about the left part with the last Dungeon, but what about the rest?

>>3542472
>Can I get skill to the Dojo without generationshift?
Nope, you need a generation shift for sparked waza to get into the Dojo list, so all the waza you spark on the last generation can't be taught.
>How can I enter the southern parts of the map?
The southernmost parts of the map you can get access to is the one south of the Saigo Region and the region with the village of the ancients.
Getting to the former is done by finishing the Saigo region questlines and going south the frozen sea section, the latter is done by defeating Wagnas if and only if you met the Iris tribe by playing the Minstrel's song on Chikapa mountain and talking to the Iris blocking the path in their cave.
There's no other parts you can access, unless you count the region of Austoroth, but that isn't really one of the southernmost regions, you can get there by going further south of the southern desert from Terelutva.

>>3542490

Thanks for the anaswer.

That kinda sucks tho. It seems like my current team can't get YoYo and some other things.

Can the final emperor spark high end spear techs?

I swear I'm farming Albions for hours now.

>>3542498
>Can the final emperor spark high end spear techs?

After checking Endo-San data:
Both are Type 14, they can't spark any high tier Spear Waza but 活殺化石衝(Petrifying Stab I guess)

If you want to check for yourself all the rest here's a good link:

http://kaerulabo.web.fc2.com/rs2/data/tec_flashing_type.html

If you hover over the Type number you can see the character associated with that Type list, the order of weapons is the in game one.

>>3542524

Wow, this site is so much better than the wiki..
Thanks man, I really appreciate it.

Is there a fast way to get rid of certain party members?

>>3542551
>this site is so much better than the wiki..
You mean the western wiki? Forget that, it's incomplete, clunky and ill managed, gamefaqs' guides or people here are much more useful than that thing.
>Is there a fast way to get rid of certain party members?
Not really, the fastest way is usually to force a party wipe, after that comes the Demonstone Ring strategy but it's not really viable, especially on the last generation depending on how many Life Potions you've bought, though the maze of memories in the remaster could help you out depending on how much patience you have.

I guess that your best bet is getting the character you don't want in the front position of Imperial Cross and then let monsters kill them repeatedly until they run out of LP, rinse and repeat the process with anyone you don't want, go fight something like a Kaiser Ant or something that doesn't spam multitarget attacks to make it quicker.

>>3542574

Thanks again man.

I'm currently running RS 1-3.
I finished 1 two weeks ago and it was (imo) really amazing and ahead of it's time. Took me 33h to beat, but I really hated the endless hordes of enemies in this game.

You know RS1 had this special feeling. I dunno how to describe it, but the best way would be this:

When I was a kid (born 88'), I grew up playing SNES with my mother all the time, and sometimes I joined her playing A Link To The Past.
There was this bridge on the mountain and you could not get over there in the beginning of the game without the hook. So this place was really mysterious for me.
That's how I feel about all those places in Romancing Saga and I really really love that the game does not hold your hand in any way.

I can't imagine what kind of mystery the pyramid in the jungle was back in the 90s (I suppose it wasn't widespread that you can't enter or something like that)

I'm at 41h in RS2 now and it's amazing too.
The generation system was pretty nice until I realized that I messed up some sparking.
I have two save games now, one on the world map and one at the final boss, but I can't beat him.
So I figured I had to organize my party a bit more. The only thing that really annoys me now is, that I have to suicide run until I get the right characters..

I assume there is no way of getting new ones pop up at the city without recruiting?

>>3542696
>That's how I feel about all those places in Romancing Saga and I really really love that the game does not hold your hand in any way.
I know that feel, that is also why I love SaGa and can't wait for Scarlet to hit the store since it really seems promising on that considering the number of locations.
> The only thing that really annoys me now is, that I have to suicide run until I get the right characters..
There is one way to get around that, saving before the end of a generation and fighting a battle before the event that triggers a shift resets the class roll, it would be wise to always end a generation shift before the last fight needed to end a quest for this reason. You are forced to suicide run or kill your emperor if you want to get all formations, but resetting the roll is a good strategy too.
>I assume there is no way of getting new ones pop up at the city without recruiting?
I'm not sure what you mean here, if you mean not running around the world to recruit advanced classes you can get most classes like the Molemen, Amazons and so on in Avalon by building the troops' quarters near the end of the game.

>>3542148
I wish I had friends to play Street Fighter 3 with

actually I like CvS2 better, it might be my favorite

which is probably why I have no friends

Was able to build both the magic research facility and the orchard as soon as I "avenged" Leon and Victor, feeling pretty good about this run so far.

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>Send digger to dig items for 30 minutes
>Pocketstation notifies me a few seconds ago
>Get a pic of Alexei with a huge NOTHING
>mfw
Motherfucker
>>3543065
>actually I like CvS2 better
A pity you have no one's brahd to stayn' yoh hawnds wif.
>>3543165
The secret is to persevere Anon.
Remember to recruit a few free mages and make them use a lot of Earth and Water magic, you can easily have your emperor use Light, Fire and Earth/Wind so you can fill up those schools as well.

>>3543065
Hey, I like CvS2 too.

>>3543271
It definitely has the better announcer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klSAOwXxX-E
>CAPCUM

So for RS2, do characters specialize in whatever weapon they come equipped with? For example, I have a thief as my empress and she came with a bow and a short sword. Should she focus on those?

>>3543326
>So for RS2, do characters specialize in whatever weapon they come equipped with?
Not quite, the weapons characters come equipped with reflect a general template and archetype for that class that isn't necessarily related to the character Type.

While most starter classes are fairly standardized like Court Mages being almost all Type 15 with only a few exception being type 05 or 03 many advanced classes like female Imperial Guards have all different types except Aurora and Furiae being both 09, Sea merchants are mostly type 06 but adds some type 02, type 09 and even a 10 iirc.

Generally you can trust Hunters at being great with bows, they're all type 02, most Eastern Guards are type 10 with Renya being the only type 08, same with Desert Guards being mostly Type 13, Brawlers/Mountain monks are all either 00 or 01.

If you want to be truly sure of what a character is good at you need to check the link I posted here>>3542524

If you want another list with more graphical feedback if you can't read japanese:

http://kaerulabo.web.fc2.com/rs2/data/chara_data_normal.html

The 閃 column indicates the Type, clicking on it will alternate between ordering by Type number and ordering by character class, it's handy if you're looking for a specific Type as it pools all the characters of the same Type together, hope you aren't colour blind as I am though.

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>>3543304
>Hey who let this team into the tournament
>They are just way too strong!
>I mean, what's up with that!?

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>tfw the boss pushes your shit in but the gains are fucking amazing

holy shit though elder dragon wasn't nearly that scary last time he took like 3-5 LP from everyone first turn

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The Sprites in this game look really great, even when the camera zooms in really close; videos on youtube do not do this game justice at all.