ROGUE.

>>3428158
Most people are going to tell you that Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup and/or Brogue are your next move. They're then going to proceed to talk about them and not shut up for the next three days.

Angband will get mentioned and discussed for about three posts until the the Poschengband crowd shows up and starts spamming screenshots and shitposting for the rest of the thread.

Dwarf Fortress will inevitably get brought up. Someone will try to claim it's not a roguelike. The DFfags will respond with "muh adventure mode tho!" and then try to convince anyone listening that only hardcore and mature gamers such as themselves can actually play DF, and casuals should die in a fire.

All this elitist nonsense will, of course, attract the NetHack faggots, desperate for anyone to be impressed by the fact that they play a game infamous for not being solvable without heavy spoilers, and actually kinda boring once spoiled. (Naturally, they've all done it spoiler-free, and they've been replaying it for about twenty years longer than it's existed.)

The rest of the thread will be nerds trying to shoehorn any discussion they can about roguelikes no one cares about.

There. We had a roguelike thread.

>>3428158
>best clones
That's a whole genre.
There's a Roguelike general over at /vg/, which mostly plays Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup and Postchengband at the moment.

Their what-to-play pasta here, though most of them are not retro.

http://pastebin.com/yfUKx35f

>What are the best Rogue-likes, and why so?

It depends.
On a lot.
Give them all a try, really. The general control is mostly the same.

>>3428201
haha your post made my day, sir.
Screenshot taken.

>>3428235
Thanks for the pasta, i'll crawl to the roguelike general then

I like mangband for being multiplayer. It's more hack and slash compared to nethack.

Darkest days - that zombie apocalypse rogue like is cool. Lot of different ways you can play and you can set up your world to be as easy or as hard as you want.

>>3428201
You forgot to mention 100 posts of people arguing about the definition of "roguelike"

File: Fushigi no Dungeon 2 - Fuurai no Shiren.png (35KB, 256x224px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 256x224px

>>3428201
>There. We had a roguelike thread.

You also recounted what it's like reading the /rlg/ over on /vg/ every day.

I will do my part and recommend Shiren the Wanderer which I think is perfect for burgeoning roguelike enthusiasts. It's simple enough to be easy to grasp but tough enough to give you a good challenge. And a little bit of persistence to the world makes it feel a little more like a traditional game. It also helps for people who didn't grow up with ascii games that it's really cute to look at too.

>>3428201
You forgot ADOM in your writeup. Pretty sure it's considered a core part of the Roguelike canon.

>>3428397
Not to mention nerds arguing about which roguelikes are "retro" enough to talk about here.

I think sometimes the janitors just don't do their research. I've had DCSS threads deleted in the past, even though the first version of Dungeon Crawl came out in 1997.

>>3428468
>I've had DCSS threads deleted in the past, even though the first version of Dungeon Crawl came out in 1997.

So we should also be able to talk about Street Fighter V and Castlevania Lords of Shadow?

>>3428470
DCSS is an update, not a sequel.

>>3428473
It's a successor. DCSS is NOT Dungeon Crawl. DC came out in 1997, DCSS development started in 2006. Yes it's a branch of the same original code but when you move on to different people developing it and start a new branch, it's no longer the same game.

I mean unless you and your kid are the same person...

>>3428158
I too like Rogue a lot and the only other games I've found that are similar enough to it are Brogue and Sil. What port of Rogue are you playing? I'm using this one: https://sites.google.com/site/donnierussellii/rogue - if you disable the tiles you get the old-style ASCII with the smiley face, etc and you can hold crtl+direction to run in a direction until you're adjacent to something.

Might wanna keep this (https://sites.google.com/site/donnierussellii/rogue) up in a tab until you're familiar with everything.

t. guy who's been playing rogue a lot lately who's never got past floor 18

>>3428581
oops pasted the same link twice, the second one was supposed to be http://userpages.monmouth.com/~colonel/rvm.html

this (http://www.the-spoiler.com/ADVENTURE/Computer.systems/rogue.2.html) is useful too, mainly for knowing the ranges of floors that certain shit spawns on (ie saving your restore strength and gain strength potions for right after you get past the last floor where there can be rattlesnakes to maximize their efficiency) oh and another thing regarding strength: your damage doesn't actually get lower until it goes under 7

File: dick_giant_pears.jpg (33KB, 250x383px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 250x383px

Caves of Qud mate

>>3428428
ADOM is for retards who can't handle real roguelikes.

>>3428957
What

>>3428201
Just to hit the rest of the bullet points...

Angband is fun and has been getting updates

Nethack is pretty good don't whine about spoilers like everybody who plays DCSS isn't using them anyway

>>3428581
Why don't you like Infra Arcana and DoomRL

>>3428491
>Yes it's a branch of the same original code but when you move on to different people developing it and start a new branch, it's no longer the same game

Oh shit, someone tell the mods ZDoom isn't retro then. :^)

File: The_Letter_R.jpg (119KB, 476x357px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 476x357px

>>3428583
Fuck. Rattlesnakes. That's all I have to say about Rogue right now.

Pic 100% related.

>>3428158
I never saw a CGA title screen for Rogue. The version I played just went straight into the text mode game. I remember a crude ASCII gravestone at the end, but I never saw anything like this at the start.

>>3429414
It's the commercial version published by Epyx. The freeware version is the one most people have played. As far as I know they're exactly the same, except the Epyx version has slimes instead of snakes.

One thing I hate about rogues is the ASCII. I mean I like the option, and being able to run in a vt100 is cool, but tiles - even shitty ones, are so much better.


A rogue that haven't been mentioned is 'powder' that runs on the GBA,psp,nds and a few other handhelds.

I think over 80% of my time on GBA was playing that game, and same with PSP. I just always keep coming back to it.

>>3429157
>>3429560
I give you a lot of shit, but if you can push your way through Rogue it's worth some respect. Soon rattlesnakes will seem like child's play though as you learn to fear the dreaded M.

Have fun! :)

File: rogue.png (6KB, 320x200px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 320x200px

Fun fact: Rogue was also released on the Atari ST, and its tileset was used as the basis for Nethack's tiles.

>>3428425
shiren is fun, but it's rogue-lite, since you can keep your items after dying. it's also really shallow, i'm not sure but i think it doesn't even have cursed items, let alone things like eating(or throwing) corpses.

>>3430764
That's why I recommend it so much to people new to the genre. It's a lot more understandable to average gamers than "real" roguelikes, which can be intimidating. But it still has far more challenge and interesting gameplay strategy than almost any other console game of the era.

Don't take the fact that you can save some items over the course of playthroughs as an indication it's easy though. Even with the most forged up greatsword and jars full of good items it's real easy to get fucked and lose. And the game is balanced around you potentially doing that, which makes raw runs very tricky and a whole lot of fun.

I really do highly recommend it. I grew up playing Rogue and later Hack, Nethack and ToME before others. Mystery Dungeon 2 is in my opinion of the great roguelikes of all time. It's just a shame that Chunsoft only got it right that one time. Most of their other mystery dungeon games have been pretty bad. Etrian MD isn't terrible, but it's no Shiren.

>>3430764
>it doesn't even have cursed items
that is really nit picky if you ask me

I never played Shiren much but I put a lot of time into Izuna 2 which is like Shiren with huge anime tits if I understand correctly

>>3430796
Also he hasn't actually played it clearly, it does have cursed items.

That makes me want to actually look into Izuna, I'd heard of it but never tried it. I wonder how hard a copy is to find these days.

>>3430808
1) probably not very
2) just get a flashcart so you can play POWDER too

I tried to get some assorted roguelikes to run on DS. Didn't go well. Same story with Wii. You'd think some saintly turbonerd would port Brogue or something.

File: dankest fish.png (112KB, 619x562px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 619x562px

>>3430764
Yeah, yeah, whatever, (You)

File: powDSCF3492.jpg (2MB, 2816x2112px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2816x2112px

>>3430815
I'm obsessed with Powder as well, I ship it here all the time. Actually one of my favorites ever. Also fairly streamlined, but I don't see that as a bad thing these days. And that gods system is so much fun.

I play on PSP, but it should run on about anything. It was made for GBA after all.

>>3430835
>I ship it here all the time
I think the word is looking for is "Shill"

Unless you write hot Powder X Elona love scenes

>>3430764
>shiren is fun, but it's rogue-lite, since you can keep your items after dying
only on the mountain you start on, which is like a quarter of the game. you can unlock a dungeon without storehouses that's pretty damn challenging

>>3428158
well, if it's Rogue you specifically like, try one of Smestorp's games (Zaga 33, 868-hack). those are pretty much modernized Rogues taken to its logical conclusion. 868 in particular is really great in an 'simple to play, hard to master and get high scores' way

>>3430836
Ohh yeah you're right lol. Keeping up with the right lingo isn't always my strong suit.

>>3430752
im surprised no one forked the source release of rogue 5.4 to do something like this already

File: fatallabyrinth726.jpg (52KB, 530x309px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 530x309px

Fatal Labyrinth is pretty bare bones but it's kind of fun.

>>3430808
>Also he hasn't actually played it clearly, it does have cursed items.
heh. i did played it, a lot. long time ago, that's why i said i'm not sure. my point is, i wish the game was more complex, instead of being simple, but brutal, forcing you to grind items trough multiple runs to actually have a chance at winning(or maybe i'm just shit).

>>3430938
>(or maybe i'm just shit).

That's more the thing, yeah. If Shiren has one problem it's like FFII in that people see something they think they can exploit so they think they SHOULD. Even when doing so is detrimental to the game as a whole.

In my experience having played the shit out of that game, it's more efficient to plan every run to be your winning one and only put in storage an item or two if you're getting full. For one it's a hell of a lot more fun than grinding up a Greatsword and then praying it will get you through and you will win a lot more often.

Sorry for the assumption, but from the wondering if there were cursed items it sounded like you hadn't really played it.

>>3430938
>heh. i did played it, a lot. long time ago, that's why i said i'm not sure. my point is, i wish the game was more complex, instead of being simple, but brutal, forcing you to grind items trough multiple runs to actually have a chance at winning(or maybe i'm just shit).
you were just shit. you can clear the game in a single run without grinding at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYruBkhKjmw

>>3430951
i would just carry my upgraded weapon from previous run up to a certain point where i would put it in a storage(and use something more shitty instead), but only if i don't have a vase to save it if things go bad. this is the way it was intended i believe, as i could just take a sword, go trough few blacksmiths to upgrade it, store it, die intentionally and then do the same thing again until i had +25 sword or some shit but i never did that.

>>3430964
It's good you didn't do that at least, people who do that usually end up complaining about it.

I don't rely too much on storage jars. If I happen to have one and know I'm fucked I'll put a few things in. But in general I just see how far I can make it with what I find along the way. That's the fun of these games for me.

>>3430781

I think the difficulty and experimentation is what make rogues good, and something a player can keep coming back to.

Main thing a rogue like game needs for it to be approachable is tiles and sane controls (that one can later customize to be more efficient)

Difficulty is half the fun. You don't play a rogue expecting to beat it, you see how far you can go

>>3428158
Aside from the usual suspects mentioned in the thread, I like Caves of Qud and Cataclysm DDA. Fun stuff more oriented to survivalism.

>>3431273
Cataclysm is pretty damn cool, although item management can get a bit unnerving once you have survived for long. I wish it had mouse support.

Aside from the classics my favorite roguelike of all time has to be One Way Heroics+ (not the shitty Chunsoft remake that ruins the balance with unavoidable traps and useless companions though). The fact that it keeps you moving makes it really fun.

>>3431273
Oh I forgot to mention, try out IVAN too. It's a bit old and hasn't been (officially) updated in a long time, but it's hilarious and kicks your ass in the right way to keep you coming back for more. Also banana arms.

>>3428201
Noice.

>>3431302
Is IVAN really playable? I tried it briefly and it seemed like a comedic death simulator more than a real game.

>>3431302
>Oh I forgot to mention, try out IVAN too
Seconding this big time.

>>3431374
It depends what you mean by playable. It's very playable, but as you've seen just as you think you're doing well you slip on a slug and break your ankle and everything looks fucked. Then maybe you pray for healing and get a new leg but it's a banana.

So the question is more, is it beatable? Theoretically, yes. I've never come close though and most people aren't intended to . It's called violent road to death on purpose. But if you're into roguelikes for playing them like this >>3431208 it's a lot of fun even though you probably won't win.

>>3430725
The main problem with Rogue is the hunger counter. You're never guaranteed to find food, so dying of hunger is an ever-present danger.

File: uh oh.png (2KB, 640x400px) Image search: [Google]

2KB, 640x400px

Yikes.

This was a good run (aside from the cursed armor), but I don't think I'm making it out of this one.

>>3432049
why even play the DOS version when there's a native exe for windows today

I keep Angband, Tales of Middle Earth, and DC:SS on my phone
I know, >mobile gayming, but they're great games
It's sometimes a little difficult with the size of the on-screen keyboard, but since it's turn-based I rarely have issues.

Great games, huge fan of rogue/likes.

>>3431654
That's not a problem, that became a central gameplay element of the whole genre. It is true though that in Rogue hunger wasn't balanced as well as it could have been which means finding at least 1 ring of slow digestion is pretty much necessary to win.

>>3432070
>downloading things
Hey man I'm not made of storage space so I play in my browser

http://donnierussellii.github.io/JSRogue.html

>>3432073
I can't find shit to play on an iPhone without destroying my thumbs except POWDER. Android is a little better in selection but pretty rough on the thumbs.

>>3432964
>That's not a problem, that became a central gameplay element of the whole genre
I understand why hunger is a thing in roguelikes. It's supposed to prevent you from staying on the same floor indefinitely, and just grinding on weak monsters until you're like level 20 and steamrolling the rest of the game. I get that.

But when you go like five floors without finding a single piece of food, and die of hunger, it feels blatantly unfair. In other games, like Nethack and DCSS, you can eat just about anything you can kill (though you won't necessarily want to... kobold corpses, blech!).

>>3433126
And that's why Rogue isn't a perfect game and people went on to make many variants of it. Like I say, a food clock is super important in roguelikes. It's really hard to make a good one that doesn't make use of it in some way. But Rogue itself didn't get it as good as it could. Hope you get good rings...

>>3429096
Glad someone beat me to it.

Seriously, if you think branching a codebase is equivalent to starting a new project you obviously aren't a software developer.

>>3430764
This just in: The definition of rougelike updated to mandate the inclusion of cannibalism. 9/10 existing rougelikes reclassified as rouge-lites to appease the tastes of an edgelord.

>>3428158
why do retards spell rogue "rouge"? I never understood it

>>3433206
Frenchtards

How do you define "roguelike"? What are the core qualities that every roguelike must have?

Randomly-generated world, permanent death, turn-based, and items that have to be identified?

>>3433254
Those are the generally agreed upon 4 core elements, yeah.

>>3433254
Some people include ascii graphics as one of the key features too, but that's getting rarer and rarer.

And this is why I like the term roguelikelike better than roguelite. It's useful to have a term for games that are like roguelikes but don't quite fit into the genre as is. But roguelite implies they're easier, simpler or more casual which isn't necessarily the case.

>>3433254
You forgot cannibalism, you filthy casual

>>3433270
>>3433254
Is Diablo considered a roguelike-like, then?

>>3433317
Yup. Some people actually consider it a roguelike even though it's real time. It was designed as an action based roguelike. It would fall under the roguelike-like or roguelite categories.

>>3433254
Oh now you've done it

how are you guys running out of food? since i started playing rogue again i've played probably about 200 games and i generally make it to around floor 15 and i've never ran out of food once. do you guys find yourselves sitting to heal from fights a lot or what?

>>3433419
>and i generally make it to around floor 15

There's your answer. Other things are killing you before food gets scarce in the lower levels.

>>3433445
the furthest i've got to is 18 but once you're that low aren't you supposed to just descend asap anyway?

>>3433174
you can keep your items after dying, that's why it's a rogue-lite. people think that rogue-lite is a bad word but it's not.
>cannibalism
by saying corpses i did not meant humans, you don't even fight humans in shiren.

>>3434592
i should also mention, the game is build around you dying, since it's the only way to progress some quests. i really doubt it was intended to be beaten from fresh start, even if some people can.
all that said, it's a really decent game.

>>3434592
No it's not. Cannibalism guy is trolling you.

>>3435272
Probably his fetish. This is the internets after all.

>>3434592
i just remembered you can fight humans in shiren, there are bandits, though they are super cute even in comparison to other human characters, so you don't think of them as humans. i think you can fight the few people you encounter as well, but i'm not sure.

>>3437637
Bandits are just monsters that look human. Shopkeepers are human and in you can attack one if you want but as typical, it's not going to go well for you. You can also attack Oryu, Pekeji and Kechi but there's no real reason to unless you're mad at them.

File: OMNV5730OMOMNV5730OM.jpg (58KB, 522x386px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 522x386px

>>3428158
Never any sci-fi roguelikes.

>>3438675
I agree on that. Most roguelikes...even rpgs, are mostly the old tired medieval fantasy fare. Futuristic or even modern-time ones are extremely scarce. I never understood why.

>>3428491
Romhacks of retro games (such as Rockman Minus Infinity) are considered retro, because they are built on top of a previously-existing retro game which is required for it to function.

Mods of retro games (such as the ever-popular Doom wads) are considered retro, because they are built on top of a previously-existing retro game which is required for it to function.

How the fuck is DCSS not retro? It's a modified version of Dungeon Crawl which requires Dungeon Crawl's codebase to run. It's retro.

>>3438675
I know of at least two... DoomRL, and Alphaman.

File: koboldwitharayofsleep.png (37KB, 992x539px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 992x539px

looks like i need to git gud at this perfectly fair and skill based game

>>3439548
>I never understood why.
Because the genre is highly influenced by Rogue, which was highly influenced by D&D? Even saying "dungeon crawler" makes people think of D&D. It's not that mysterious.

There's also the fact that many, many roguelikes start as modifications of existing ones.

>>3428201
>Poschengband
I stopped following 'bands a long time ago, so this is the first I've heard of this. The internet is doing a shit job of telling me what's supposed to be interesting about it--why is it popular now?

>>3440327
It's an open-world game with every possible thing in the universe in it.

File: AGB_Rogue.png (2KB, 240x160px) Image search: [Google]

2KB, 240x160px

Today I learned there's a GBA version of Rogue. Pressing the L button brings up a virtual "keyboard" for performing various actions.

I wish the GUI was better, but, for a one-man project it's a respectable attempt.

>>3440332
Check out Powder, if you want a roguelike you can play on your GBA.

CDDA is the only one I bother playing anymore, that and Dwarf Fortress. On the plus side, CDDA is under heavy development, and you can get an experimental build that is way newer than the last stable. Shaped explosions, ability to transfer money from cash cards to a single card, vehicles now have traction physics, NPCs eat and drink and possibly fight one another, all kinds of neat shit. On the downside, there still isn't an endgame, and many things can be broken in the experimental builds. You can wait for the next stable release, but they haven't even decided on a feature freeze yet so you could be waiting for quite some time.

I used to play DCSS, but I got tired of always getting forced into the same patterns to get past the later levels. If I wanted to play a mage, I fucking would. Kinda retarded that I have to gear my melee characters the same as my magic characters otherwise they get wiped out after I reach the Vault.

I still have yet to play DF's Adventurer mode, or get to the Circus in Fortress mode. I usually get a decent fort running, get bored, and go make a new fort.

>>3428158

The Mines of Moria.

>>3440181
There is PRIME as well

File: watchimage.jpg (21KB, 249x199px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 249x199px

>>3440332
He made a version of Hack for it as well but I haven't tried it. The guy who made Powder put Rogue on a watch.

>>3444796
What's the difference between Hack and Nethack?

>>3445850
Too many to count.

>>3445850
Simply put Hack is a variant of Rogue and Nethack is a variant of Hack. Hack was done by some guys while they were still in highschool as basically a Rogue clone with added features. A few people worked on different variations.

Then another guy took Hack and some of it's variants and rolled it together, added more stuff and NetHack was born.

The thing that does make NetHack different is the net part. It wasn't developed by one or two people, there was a group of developers all working together over the early internet. Swapping and refining ideas. That made the game grow dramatically in complexity and one of the reasons it's still considered a pillar of the genre,

>>3447071
Oooh, interesting.

So all these games are kind of related, like a big family!

>>3447102
Sort of, yeah. Nowadays the genre is much bigger and there's more variation. But most early roguelikes came about as clones of each other with new or borrowed features. It's part of the reason most of them are very thematically similar too. Lots of goblins and amulets, not so many spaceships or teenage mutants.

>>3428158

if you happen to like modern steam games, you can just pick any one game an it's a rogue like now, it a virtual candyland for rogue-like lovers now.

File: Duckking2000.gif (65KB, 172x120px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 172x120px

>>3447706
>butthurt/10

Delicious

So does anyone have tips on actually getting good at Rogue?

>>3449343
drink every potion, read every scroll and try every wand you find on the first few floors

>>3438675
This is Mission Thunderbolt:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Thunderbolt

What does /vr/ think of Cataclysm:DDA?

File: image.jpg (2MB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3264x2448px

>>3430937
this is a real decent console roguelike. has a sequel on GameGear called Dragon Crystal

currently playing Azure Dreams for GBC

>>3447721
Not that anon but yes I'm fucking mad

File: hqdefault.jpg (22KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 480x360px

Does this count?

>>3451791
It's pretty gud, although the inventory management is a bit annoying once you've survived for a while. I kinda wish it allowed mouse in the inventory to select stuff and move it around so it's less of a chore.

>>3451964
What game is this?

>>3451964
>>3452242
Dungeons Of The Unforgiven
I played the shareware version few times around early 2000s without any idea what to do as a kid when ive got it from an old shovelware CD full of demos and shareware games from late 80s & early 90s and only recently replayed it again
Apparently the original author still asks 50$ for the full version on his website

File: vargbait.jpg (83KB, 408x306px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 408x306px

What do you guize think of "Cavern" for iOS?
..and the free Rogue port?
Just heresies or there's some good in them?

>>3451964
W T F

>>3452614
>Cavern
>₪2.99
No sale, Cavern dev

Free Rogue port is a pain to use, the paid one sucks less but is overpriced

File: image.jpg (107KB, 640x1013px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 640x1013px

time to ruin your thread with a non retro game

I like unreal world, pretty comfy and one of the only /vr/ games I can think of that I'd still actively developed/updated in 2016.

File: dragoncrystal.png (23KB, 744x192px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 744x192px

Dragon Crystal on my sister's boyfriend's Game Gear was the first Rogue-like I ever played. I stikll remember the music.

>>3454870
Is it a real roguelike or do they cheat or did they casualify it

>>3456352
lol genre definition baby

>>3453446
The free port is better. Yes the controls are clunky but at least its real rogue. The paid one has better controls but feels shallow.

>>3457001
Shallow how?

>>3460481
Not that guy but I think it adds some items and stuff, no really major changes afaik but it's still a variant.

Doesn't really bother me tho.

>>3430595
Here's your (you)

>>3454545
Except that we've already been talking about it. >>3430835 Powder talk here is cool because Powder is fucking awesome.

>>3454870
I tired this out last night. Kind of fun actually, might stick with it a bit.

File: keks.png (9KB, 544x401px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 544x401px

So, i now understand...
...that Angband might be my End.

>>3463548
That doesn't rhyme change the word order