What does /vr/ think of emulating CRT scanlines?

Stupid

>>3372028
Those are not scanlines, those are just dark lines drawn over the image. They're not even lined up correctly.

Come back with a real CRT shader.

>>3372036

>>3372028
/vr/ has as many opinions on it as it has users. Some think they make the games look better, some think they make them look like shit. About all anyone can agree on is that they all like fighting about it and yelling that everyone else's opinion is objective shit.

>>3372101
OP here, as for the NES, I find it easier on the eyes. Not as bright on the monitor.

Literally the most pleb. Those MAME filters that simulate a TV screen suck too but at least they make an effort.

>>3372036
This

>>3372036
Came here to post this.
I hate to bust this phrase out, but it's 'not what the devs intended.' I mean on those graph paper maps Miyamoto did for the first Zelda didn't have theoretical scanlines scribbled on them.

>>3372028
I think it improves the low res image when it's blown up on a 40"+ tf panel. I haven't tried it on a smaller monitor as I only use the wii to emulate games I am interested in buying.

I've learned to simply accept the sharpness of modern displays and appreciate it. If I want the look of a crt, I'll play on a real crt, because emulating will never feel the same

>>3373129
This is a pretty good slot mask filter.

Superior to the original IMO. Games were designed to be played only on high end CRT's, which are what the filters accurately emulate. Cheap CRT's are far from the intended but since most people didn't own the high end ones they don't know what the games were supposed to look like. So playing with the emulator filters gives you the original experience plus all the modern conveniences of playing on emulator. Some people might disagree, though.

>>3373213
The artists used consumer CRTs to view their work...

>>3373129
Wow, that's not bad. If it had the slight rainbowing pixels it would be perfect

>>3372028
Resolutions on modern screens can't accurately reproduce the scanline look. The native resolution of the screen needs to be a multiple of 480 to produce even lines. You can see the problem with this on vertical scrolling 4:3 games so the scrolling looks strange. Just use a real crt, and use a cheap xp computer with emulators, and a front end to choose them. And groovymame.

>>3373272
Also, even with a much higher resolution than 1080p, no amount of pixels will ever recreate the detail of a physical device, like a phosphor screen with wires and shit.

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How bout this.

>>3373313
OK, that's pretty damn cool. Does seem like a huge performance drain if you're not on some QHD monitor where you can actually see that levle of detail, but still impressive.

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>>3373254
Don't bother arguing with him

>>3372028
Stupid.

Every single scanline filter or shader I've ever seen looks like ass

>inb4 some jerk posts screenshot comparisons

That's right, screenshots. Shown unmoving on your flat LCD monitor. Put a LCD with a scanline filter next to a real CRT and you will die of laughter for ever believing the two were comparable.

>>3373213
please, stop spreading misinformation and read some more. this is not an insult, but a plea. educate yourself before trying to educate others. thank you.

I can't stand it, makes the game look like shit. It's like playing through a screen door. I'll take blocky HDMI pixels over scanlines any day.

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>>3372028
So much quality is diminished when you scale these games to HD resolutions. For that reason CRT shaders are a godsend.

>>3373662
it's not that quality is diminished, it's more that the lack of quality that was always there is made more apparent when viewed through a crispy hd screen

>>3372028
Those examples are pretty shit. Use lottes shader.

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>>3373313
Reminds me of the double cabinet view in chronicles of mystara.

>>3372028

Don't do it, just use a CRT

>>3373272
>cheap xp computer
Use some light Linux distro instead, there's literally no reason to run Windows XP for this.

>>3373662
What filter is that?

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Daily reminder that Nintendo loved blocky pixel art.

>>3372028
>makes the overall image darker by adding scanlines
>doesn't make the non-scanlined pixels brighter to compensate
Scanlines are often so badly implemented. At times they actually just cut out half the pixels

>>3372040
haha i just KNEW this guy was gonna be here

>>3373313
>No constant blue glow

Fake and gay

>>3372028
I just want my series of squares to look like squares.

>>3372028
is that inside a room or outside a house?

>>3375663
Inside a room. Have you never played Zelda II?

What do you guys think of Super Win The Game's CRT Filter?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AfFaGwFNIg

I thought it was pretty damn good

>>3375748
I think the better question is have they never seen outside before, because the perspective is CLEARLY from within a house.

>>3375663
It's a house inside of a room.

Not yet perfected, but it's close. I guess standarized 2K would be enough to properly emulate scanlines and such.

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pls help improve

>>3377160
Play on a real CRT. Filters are gay and for niggers.

>>3377226
It's a shader, not a filter, fuck off.

>>3377229

splitting hairs

>>3377229
Serves the same purpose, quit being fag and get a real CRT.

Sometimes it looks good, but sometimes it looks bad. Do whatever it takes to your video games to make them look good, to you.

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>>3373357
>mfw I can't play games outside of their original hardware

fucking image is spot on god damn
thank god for flashcarts

>>3373724
Just tried it and it slowed down to a crawl and I think I heard my graphics card screaming out in pain

>>3372028
It's better than not emulating scanlines...

/thread

>not using gtu-famicom for the authentic retro experience full of rainbows and dot crawl

>>3373313

God damnit. Stuff like this is really cool, but it makes me fear for the future.

Imagine what it will be like once VR tech finally gets good. We will live in tiny empty apartments with nothing but a bed, a chair, and a kitchen. We will come home from our soul-draining jobs, the only ones which haven't been replaced by automation, and immediately plug in our VR to escape reality.

I can't decide if it's horribly depressing or everything I could ever wish for.

>>3373313
WHERE IS THIS FROM AND WHERE CAN I BUY A VR SET FOR IT

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>not emulating on the Wii and getting all the benefits of emulation plus actual scanlines

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>>3373313
when the fuck is this releasing, jesus

>>3373313
This is not also
>shitty n64 emulation

>>3373662
Royale looks pretty bad at 1080p though, better off with Hylian/Lottes/Geom.

>>3379445
>using wii for emulating
>using shitty composite cable

kys senpai

>>3379847

But the Wii has S-Video, RGB SCART and Component options.

I used scanlines a lot with UAE. It was faster than rendering each line twice to get a normal-looking display (not squashed). I mean with software rendering, since UAE has been around cine the 90's and it only had simple framebuffer for a long time.
Heck even now I don't have a supported GPU, because hardware support always lags behind unless you're using Windows. And unfortunately the fs-uae dev is braindead and removes support for simple framebuffer but puts in useless stuff like floppy click sound.

All of these attempts are worthless if you aren't using time period accurate lightbulbs.

>>3379847

You have composite, RGB SCART (S-Video if amerifat) and Component as options for Wii

>>3373662
It's not an issue of scaling the games to HD resolution display, it's an issue of the being scaling method, bleeding, pixel separation, and interference and such being used to display more color or smooth transitions and the like. If you could properly replicate those effects on an upscaled image in proportion it would look effectively identical. Theoretically a high enough digital resolution you can emulate a CRT such that the human eye would not be able to tell the difference.

>>3379882
>>3380000
And HDMI for Wii Mode on the Wii U, although you don't get 240p.

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anyone knows if there's any way of installing this shader on emulators for android? >http://www.superrune.com/tools/supercrt.php
i have my android tablet pretty much setted up with emulators for NES, SNES, Genesis, GBA, N64, DS, PSX and PC-Engine but i tried this shader on Openemu and so far is the best look a had emulating.

What GPU is necessary to handle higher end CRT shaders?
I have a GTX 670 and I can't run Lotte.

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>>3380000
s-video jap too, only europoor got the rgb model.

that said a wii with component to a sd crt is the closest to real hardware I've used. Just make sure you use a wired controller as wireless always seems to have a little lag.

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>>3372028
I think they're great as long as they do it right.

>>3372028
Rather just use a real crt or just not play the game.

>>3382582
Lag with wii remotes? Is this a meme, or is this a single joke?

>>3383867
try a platformer with a wired controller to the gc port and a pro plugged into the wiimote. most of the complaints about snes9x on the wii are due to the remote lag.

>>3372036
First post best post

>>3382582
>>3383867
>>3383875
The Wii Remote has slightly more lag than a wired GameCube Controller, but it's small enough to not make any difference.

>>3382679
That's nice, but I think the curving screen is unnecessary.

>>3378867
I spent three hours hanging out with other people in a virtual space yesterday and it was a lot more fun than I expected... Aside from the low resolution the future is pretty much here already.

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>>3378867
Copypasted from their page:

>Netplay
>Call your friend(s) over to your room
>Watch them play your games or vice versa
>"Pass the controller, bro" and take turns at that hard game
>Grab/give the second controller and play WITH them
>Voice chat: laugh at them telling how they suck

That sounds better than my present life.
Also, see >>3383951.

I'm gonna be honest here, I don't know a ton about CRTs.
I'm using this shitty GE one for the time being until I can get a better one. The image is blurry as fuck, no matter how much I tinker with the sharpness settings.
And yet, I've seen these CRTs with such a crisp image, yet with more visible scanlines, as mine seems to not have any.
What's the difference here?
Are they just different styles of CRTs, and you should go for the latter I mentioned if you want crisper image?

Well in PAL regions more scan lines were used so they were less visible but this resulted in vertically stretched games. Swings and roundabouts.

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>>3386502

2 types of crts

Consumer Pleb Tier - Common and cheap. Though some are better than others (general opinion is that sony trinitrons are the best looking consumer crts) they're never as crisp as professional monitors.

Professional Monitor God Tier - Professional Monitors that were usually used by television stations, doctors, shit like that. Harder to find, and more expensive (especially if you decide to go to ebay instead of searching around locally). PVMs and BVMs are the ones you'll see most commonly discussed, though PVMs are more common. Some models are better than others, best to do your own research and go to the cry general.

different types of connections

RF - That shit you screw into your tv. Complete garbage.

Composite - Better than RF but still shit.

S-video - Better than composite but not as good as RGB.

RGB - Best image, http://retrorgb.com/ for more info.

>>3372028

I used to think that emulating CRT's was incredibly silly, but then I realized that the graphics were designed with the limitations of CRT TV's in mind and I've changed my opinion from "silly" to "interesting in theory, terrible in practice" due to the fact that most scanline shaders darken things way way way too much or don't look even at the low resolutions on my older 720p flatscreen TV. I'm also not interested in shaders that curve the display, which disqualifies a fair number of them.

>>3388902
>designed with the limitations of CRT TV's in mind
M-muh developer's intentions!

>>3388859

What TV is that?

>>3389753
BVM-14F1 - not a television

The BKM-10R control unit must be hidden off-screen. Perhaps it's being controlled remotely from another monitor?

>>3388859
You know, I think composite on a consumer CRT looks good as long as you aren't using a very big screen. Sure, RGB and S-Video connections show more details and professional monitors give a sharp image (with some external speakers it can give some crisp sounds as well) but to be honest, most people won't notice the difference between those two set-ups.

However, RF is usually the most unreliable cable (it's really sensitive for some reason). I'm not sure if it's because of my European CRT but I don't see many scanlines, even on a low quality tube on it and I don't see deformed composite or RF sprites (usually), especially compared to screenshots of NTSC console ones. Does it simply mean my TV is exceptionally good?

>>3389769
It saves settings, so likely the person just put it away when not needed.

>>3372028
Scanlines are one of those unfortunate flaws we had to put up with because that's just the way the technology was. It's like listening to the radio and getting some trace static. You wouldn't emulate static on your digital internet radios would you? Of course not, we've evolved passed that, just as technology has evolved beyond scanlines.

>>3390402
It also has the power switch so not sure how you'd get around that one.

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>>3390595
Digital radio a shit.

I'll take occasional fuzz on FM (assuming crappy aerial setup) over the digital equivalent which is obnoxious glitching or complete signal drop-out.

Don't even get me started on the pathetic bitrates used pretty much across the board...

What's the best shader to replicate the look of a typical consumer CRT with composite? I have seen edits/combinations of CRT Royale (like CRT Royale + Composite) but as far as I know they replicate the look of a high-end CRT, not a typical one. Also, what's the point of using high-end CRTs anyway, if no game was designed with such CRTs in mind?

What's the best CRT shader to use with a CRT monitor? Mine is a Proview (I dunno the model) which accepts up to 1024x768@85Hz. I have been using tvout-ntsc-2phase (not the exact name) but I don't know how accurate it is.

Can I use a modified CRT Royale with a CRT monitor? What should I remove/edit? Curvature, phosphor, scanlines should be removed? Or it is stupid to use a CRT shader with a CRT monitor?

What's the best shader to use for DOS games on a 1024x768 CRT monitor?

Thank you.

>>3377160
get rid of fake (and gay) CRT geometry and you're pretty good.

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needs

moar

scandelions

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I'm experimenting right now

What looks better, this?

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>>3391402
or this?

>>3374025
This proves absolutely nothing

>>3391402
This one

>>3391405
This one.

Rgb and 4'3 are what the developers used. Scan lines for certain Tv's at times.

The wifi u blurs the stuff with anti-whatever it is and darken nes games.

Emulators are how games looked like when developed using the pic, even then not all emulators get stuff right.

Cup issues, input lag, sound issues etc.

>>3390901
is this 3D ?

>>3391432
Breh developers used consumer CRTs

>>3391440
Them too.

>>3391405
this one

>>3391719
What game?

>>3391719
how do you output 240p from laptop?

>>3391805
twinkle star sprites, from a gog bundle
>>3391809
A custom modeline, generated via lrmc or the like. Though in that picture the CRT is hooked up to a rpi3 generating 240p.

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>>3391412
>This proves absolutely nothing
It may not prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt but it certainly showcases the pixel aesthetic with intention. The colors are changes so you know they didn't just copy/paste them from a manual, infact I think some of them are original to the calendar. Granted putting pixels in a calendar is a far cry from outright from condoning a sprites ability to convey an artistic vision one must respect their humble beginnings.

>>3390612
BVMs turn on automatically when AC power is applied (such as when the mains switch in the back is flipped)

>>3372028
It looks absolutely nothing like the real thing. I prefer stormeagle or whatever that filter is called that kind of makes everything look like a watercolor when playing on a regular monitor, although (real) crt is by far the best option

>>3373129
This one actually looks pretty good

>>3392521
Just checked both of mine and you're right.

For some reason I thought they defaulted to standby.

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>>3377328
>using flash carts

>>3392681
> believing ants browse nepalese finger painting forums

Your reaction image is as shit as your opinion m8

>>3390847
You don't need shaders, you have a crt! You can run 240p stuff 3840x240@120hz with black frame insertion. Shaders with DOS games? wtf dude

I think it definitely makes prerendered backgrounds look better. They look really pixelated without a shader and the JPEG artifacts are way more noticeable. With a shader, everything seems blended and less pixelated.

>>3391434
?

I still have a real CRT so I haven't been assed to emulate it anywhere. I found this great shader setting for the Game Boy emulator I'm using on my phone though. This screengrab doesn't really do it justice, but when I'm using it on my phone it looks fantastic, super close to using a real Game Boy with the nice bonus of actually being able to see what you're doing without a worm light or hardware mod.

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>>3392959
forgot my upload like a mouthbreather

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>>3392961
Please tell me the layout for controls can be rearranged. The placement of the A and B buttons in your screenshot would be fucking horrible for anything that isn't a turn-based RPG. Even then, still not very good. Screen looks alright, though.

>>3392792
Well, here's the thing. I have read about emulation, CRTs, etc, a lot in these years. I have read many articles about scanlines, Trinitrons/PVMs, and so on. And I'm still a fucking noob.

Like, for example, I don't understand the 15kHz/31kHz numbers that appears in any arcade-related discussion. What does "15kHz" or "31kHz" mean? What are they related to? In the laat topic I have seen about this, I have read that 240p and 480p are related to 15kHz and 31kHz respectively. If that's true, then why not using "240p/480p" instead? At least I can understand video resolution.

Or what's the distintion between fps and Hz? My understanding is that fps refers to the internal update rate of the game's engine and how many frames updates per second, while Hz refers to the refresh rate of the monitor/screen. But then, why do people tend to use higher fps than the rate their screens can update? Shouldn't that add an overhead to the graphics card and the computer must drop the additional frames?

I asked about shaders because Windows doesn't let me use anything lower than 800x600 (IIRC) and because I have heard typical CRT TVs were different than PC CRT monitors (different curvature, phosphor, gamma values), or am I wrong? Nevertheless, in the old emulation wiki there is a modified CRT Geom shader for CRT monitors but in the old XML format. If you're saying using a CRT shader on a CRT monitor is useless, then why someone put a modified CRT Geom in the wiki?

Also, there are people making shaders to replicate the llook of old, vintage CRTs (like the Analog Shader Pack), like, v3 of that pack will have 70s looking shaders, 80s looking shaders, 90s looking shaders... Again that's why I asked about shaders.

>>3393020
>What does "15kHz" or "31kHz" mean?

NTSC standard is 525 scanlines per frame at 30 frames per second.

525 x 30 = 15,750, or approximately 15kHz.

31kHz is the same but at 60fps.

>>3372028
It is easier on my eyes, I don't really care about the intended visual experience or whatever and after a few minutes of playing it really becomes unnoticeable.

>>3393020
>I have read that 240p and 480p are related to 15kHz and 31kHz respectively

Expanding on the above, games run at 60hz. You can't do 480p @60hz at 15kHz because 480 lines x 60 = 28.8kHz, which is greater than 15kHz. So the best that a 15kHz display could do at 60Hz would be 240p (14.4kHz).

31kHz can handle 480 lines @60Hz just fine.

Even though we're talking in terms of FPS, 15kHz and 31kHz is more literally defining lines per second.

>>3393020
>because I have heard typical CRT TVs were different than PC CRT monitors

A typical consumer CRT television in North America strictly runs at NTSC standard which is 15kHz. A CRT monitor is way more flexible on the signal frequencies they can accept and display.

Monitors tend to do other weird scaling shit too so even if you send it a 240p signal it'll just get blurry and enlarged rather than have distinct scanlines, but I don't really know the specifics. There are tricks you can do by messing around with video modes to force them to behave more like a television, check the emugen wiki for details.

>>3393004
>Please tell me the layout for controls can be rearranged.
Yeah, of course. You can rearrange and resize them however you like, add turbo buttons and shit, and save different controller profiles. My layout there might not /look/ comfy but it makes playing RPGs one-handed a breeze. Emulator's called My OldBoy! if you're curious.

>>3393048
>>3393030
>>3393025
Okay, now I understand, kinda. But, what happened with GC/PS2 era games that displayed 60fps at 480p. That would be higher than 15kHz. Were late 90s/early 2000s TV capable of 31kHz?

Also I have heard things about black levels (0-255 vs 16-255 levels, whatever does those numbers means...RGB values?), slightly different gamma values between CRT TVs and CRT monitors...

I have tried to do the superwide trick as decribed here: http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Display_FAQ and here: http://libretro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4228 . But, it doesn't work. By default, my screen can output 1024x768@85Hz as reported by Windows, which would be 768*85=65280 (if I switch to 60Hz it hurts to look at the screen). But that's more than 31kHz. How's that possible? Anyway I added a custom 3840x480p@60Hz mode in Nvidia's control panel (can't use 120Hz for some unknown reason and I think I need to use progressive insteas of interlaced and then a interlaced shader or the tvout+interlaced shader. Again, I'm a noob). But Retroarch looks wrong, even when I use the Github config file linked in that libretro.com thread. The menu's aspect rate isn't corrected, instead I only see a long 1px height line (everything else is black) so I can't see the menu entries so I can't load a game.

>>3393223
(btw I'm using Retroarch 1.3.6)

>>3393223
>GC/PS2 era games that displayed 60fps at 480p

Not on a typical CRT TV. Those game modes were designed for HDTVs, which would include some of the later high end consumer CRT televisions.

>But that's more than 31kHz. How's that possible?

Like I said, CRT monitors are more flexible than TVs. There are CRT monitors that can do 1080p at 60hz, which is way way higher than 31kHz. Monitors are a whole separate beast, talk about 15/31kHz is only really meaningful in regards to TVs, PVMs, and arcade sets.

No idea why the method didn't work for you. I've only done it a couple of times but had no problems (honestly, the result wasn't that great even compared to CRT shaders running on a LCD monitor). The application or RetroArch version shouldn't matter at all. Just make sure you follow every step exactly.

>>3393223
>The menu's aspect rate isn't corrected, instead I only see a long 1px height line (everything else is black)

Are these set correctly?

video_aspect_ratio = 8.0
aspect_ratio_index = 19
menu_driver = rgui

>>3393246
Okey, here's the process I did:

-I opened NVIDIA Control Panel, I select Change resolution, then Customize, then Create Custom Resolution
-I select 3840x480, 60Hz, progressive, 32bpp. Under timing options, I set "standard" to automatic.
-I downloaded Monroe88's example config, renamed it to "retroarch.cfg" (I made a backup of my own .cfg), then I run Retroarch

And it doesn't work.

>>3393257
Yes. Both in the example .cfg and my own .cfg (which I set to those values). No aspect ratio correction.

>>3393286
>-I select 3840x480, 60Hz, progressive, 32bpp. Under timing options, I set "standard" to automatic.
> I set "standard" to automatic.

Set the timing standard to GTF or CVT, I find that "automatic" makes it create a resolution that is scaled to the "native" resolution of the display.

>>3393314
Okey, that did the trick.

But now I'm not sure if the curvature I'm seeing is correct...

>>3373213
Devs never intended there to be big black lines all over the screen like that sod off.

>>3393324
Okey, I'm not sure what to do with the overscan area. The premade .cfg says you shouldn't use mask overscan options in Retroarch and instead use the geometry options on the CRT monitor itself. But whatever I do, I can see the horizontal overscan area (and I suppose the vertical too). Also, if I select the overscan option in say, Nestopia, the image doesn't fit the whole screen, and if I disable integer scale then it looks ugly, specially with shaders like tvout+interlaced. What should I do?

>>3391432
I do love a juicy cock once or twice a day.

>>3393365
anyone?

>>3377160
what game?

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>>3372028
its fine, sometimes i use them, sometimes i use crt shaders, sometimes i go pixel perfect. who cares?

>>3379760
>last update in February

never ever

>>3391919
>rpi3 generating 240p
Off HDMI?
How do you do it?

>>3399585
in config.txt:
hdmi_group=1
hdmi_pixel_encoding=2
hdmi_mode=8

plus this HDMI to VGA adapter: https://www.amazon.com/VicTsing-Gold-Plated-Converter-Adapter-Desktop/dp/B016HL4CAY/

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>>3392961
Anyone know how to get this filter on VBA? I'm playing Crystal right now and trying shit like pic related, nothing really looks "right" to me.

>>3391402
This one. What shader?

How come I can't see scanlines at all (or barely) after applying geom on top of the Famicom NTSC filter?