If NES sprites are limited to 3 colors + transparency, why does

Because the white portions of Mario's eyes are different sprites overlaid the rest of his face. They used the same sprite-stacking technique for Mega Man's face.

How the fuck do people find that kind of stuff out?

>>3369465
How do people find out that Mario has four colors?

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>>3369446
Probably this.
It's how Mega Man works at least.

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It's a common misconception to think that "NES sprites are limited to 3 colors + transparency"
The real deal is as follows:
>The NES has access to 64 different colors that can be used throughout the game - a few are duplicates
>A total of 8 palettes can be used at once
>4 palettes are used for the Background Tiles. Each palette is composed of 3 colors, plus a common single background color shared between all 4 palettes
>4 palettes are used for the Sprites. Each palette is composed of 3 colors, plus transparency
>Total Colors onscreen: 25 (4 palettes x 3 colors = 12 for sprites, 4 palettes x 3 colors = 12 for background tiles, 1 for background)
>Palettes can be swapped on the fly (many games use this for cool fade in/out effects, etc)
>Sprites can move around and are not snapped to the grid
>There are 2 Sprite Modes: 8 x 8 or 8 x 16. Your game may only use 1 mode.
>The game has access to 256 sprites (think of a texture that is 128 x 128, split into 8 x 8 tiles)
>Each sprite can only use 1 palette (but you can overlap multiple sprites with transparency, ex. Megaman)
>You can only have 64 sprites on the screen at once
>You can only have 8 sprites per scanline at once.
>Sprites can be flipped horizontally and/or vertically, but can not be rotated or scaled


The word 'sprites' refers to 8x8/16 px tiles that can overlap, Mario's body overlaps his transparent eyes and Mega Man's face overlaps his body.
You don't need to overlap 8x8 sprites to get the multicolor feel, though. See pic.

>>3369446
probably not even that. The eye section only has yellow and blue nearby. The red sections have yellow and blue nearby. The two don't cross their path, and you can tile Mario just fine that each 8x8 region has exactly 3 colors + transparency

>>3369465
They spend a second or two to think creatively. These old systems are cool not only because of their tight limits, but also because of their simplicity. There is not a lot of wiggle room, or complexity. Means though as a dev you can have a creative field day with what little you're given. Think of it like a box of standard lego bricks. Stupidly simple, no comparison to modern lego contraptions. And yet ... that simplicity allows for a lot of creativity and messing around on a fundamental level. It's a similar thing with video games.

>>3369760
No it's definitely that. Sprite stacking was a regular practice on NES titles, making 6-color sprites rather commonplace.

>>3369775
last time I had that exchange I had a really difficult time finding too many sprite stacking examples. Also, sprite stacking means you go into your sprite budget without gaining size. So if you CAN do it with a planar layout, you do it. Mario can do it planar, so why would you throw away an extra sprite or two?

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>>3369437
here's one for you: The GBC is subject to the same sprite limitations as the NES. 3 colors + transparency. The attached pic is from a GBC game, and yes, it's a fully working sprite, same animations as the PS game

>>3369834
rayman gbc looks amazing but the sound design is ass

>>3370489

Lots of GBA games have crap sound, but part of that might be attributed to the GBA's built-in speaker.

>>3370509
We all accept that the GBA sounds like crap for that reason, yet you try and tell Genesis fanboys that their system sounds like windy butts for that same reason and they get all pissy.

>>3370509
I remember reading that a few games even used the original GB hardware inside the GBA for sound because the processor was too busy with other things

>>3369780
The reason is that the NES only has memory for 4 sprite palettes. Each sprite has to select one of those 4 to use. In SMB2, one full palette is reserved for Mario's sprite. The whites of his eyes use a different palette, but it only uses one color. The other two colors can be used for something else.

If you did it the way you're suggesting, what would happen is you would end up using 2 of the 4 palettes just for Mario's sprite, and the game would end up being much less colorful because you only have 2 palettes for everything that's not Mario.

>>3370529
what is your obsession with farts?

>>3370529
The Genesis has a dedicated sound chip.

>>3370549
Actually, the original GB's processor can't be used for additional processing, but what you can do is use the original GB's sound channels in GBA music. They each operate independently of the GBA's two PCM channels, so the processor doesn't have to mix the GB sound manually.

That's why a lot of graphically intensive games have music that barely sounds better than the original GB, because those channels don't require any CPU mixing whereas the GBA's sound channels do.

>>3370507
Nah, if you use a GBA emulator it still sounds like tinny shit. I think it only plays audio at 22hz like an N64.

>>3370507
it's a GBC game. Get your shitbox out of this thread

>>3370557
saving palette entries is a good reason. Do we have any proof either way? tile dump from an NES emulator?

>end up using 2 of the 4 palettes just for Mario's sprite
they can be reused elsewhere. White + yellow is a useful combo

The PPU actually treats sprites same as tiles, but the CHR ROM has one half devoted to tiles and the other half to sprites. You can freely select which side is used for which. Also the color palette for the two is separate (12 colors for sprites and 12 for tiles, with an additional color for the background).

>>3370564
Ah yes, the AssBlaster 2200™

>>3370559
The delicious smell of them.

>>3371574
The assblaster fm chip for the master system is incredible, though.

>>3371574
It does really compliment well with the SNES' own Potato Tape Recorder 3000™, which constantly making sure that the experience of music being heard from three rooms away is as accurate as possible.

>>3371574
>>3371852

They both just wish they had CD sound anyway

>>3371852
You obviously don't know what the SPC700 is capable of. Like really, go listen to some SMW custom music. A bunch of people have made some really damn good ports that sound almost identical to the original piece. One of the few that come to my mind are Still More Fighting, Song of Healing and Hot Damned. I can link the SPCs if you'd like (although I doubt it, judging from your post).

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>>3369780
>I had a really difficult time finding too many sprite stacking examples.
Double Dragon II and III definitely used sprite stacking though, Billy Lee's pants and vests have blue and light blue colors, plus red hair and skin tone in addition to the black outline and transparent colors. It's also the reason why Jimmy's clothes are the same colors as his hair and skin, even though the promotional art and cutscenes depicted him as a blondie.

>>3372164
I don't doubt they exist. Back then some anon said it was kind of a rare and obscure technique, only done by a developer or two. I found many examples of planar setups, with adjacent tiles having different palettes. I was under impression it's a fairly common technique, and was looking for examples. Couldn't find much though, mostly because I may know the technical bits of the NES, I have played very few of these games. So it's nice to know that I was kind of right and it is indeed a common technique

>>3369564
>You don't need to overlap 8x8 sprites to get the multicolor feel, though. See pic.

How does turtle have 4 colors then?
red, white, black, and yellow

>>3372183
There are never more than 3 colors+ transparent in a given 8x8 tile.

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>>3372192
>>3372183


looks like the original image was just misaligned fffsdgs

>>3372208
yeah, that's the more common technique. Each 8x8 cell has its own 3 colors, and the rest is just a really smart alignment

>>3372127
Yep, you're just an assblasted Genesis kid that don't even know what you're talking about. Moving on.

>>3369767
thats a good analogy, and an interesting idea which i agree with for the most part. obviously there are exceptions, but yeah, having boundaries certainly helps keep focus, but stretch the limitations of said boundaries.
Thats true with everything to a certain degree

>>3372217
>Yep, you're just an assblasted Genesis kid
Aw, no need to project like that sport. I actually hate the music both consoles produce for the most part. It's just all BWANGS and FURRRFS to me. I'm of the opinion that music in consoles didn't get to an above average-good quality until optical media started taking over.

>>3370529
That's because GBA still sounded better than Genesis, and Genesis even had a dedicated souch chip and still sounded like buts

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Okay so now that we have that figured out...
Why was his hair pink?

>>3372379
In Japanese culture pink is a manly color that signifies strength and homosexuality.

>>3370509
>GBA didn't have a dedicated sound card
But the game in question is a GBC one.

>>3371852
Treble is overrated, in a sense, anyway. Except for stuff like cymbals, many channels in commercially recorded music will EQ out some of the treble.

>>3370569
> That's why a lot of graphically intensive games have music that barely sounds better than the original GB
Such as?

>>3372208
Thanks finanon

>>3372468
Harmony of Dissonance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcCUiWPWqog

>>3372543
Does this game ever work on Nintendo DS? I remember DS has no GB compatibility.

>>3372379
Wasn't the pink because of his bunny transformation? Then again, they could've easily went for a blonde bunny.

>>3370509
This is what Konami did with Harmony of Dissonance. They were trying to achieve Symphony of the Night level graphics, so they reduced the soundtrack to low resolution samples as the compromise. The compositions were great though.

>>3372575
It's a GBA game, so yes, it's compatible unless you're using a DSi

>>3372575
>I remember DS has no GB compatibility.

Then you remember wrong?

>>3372727
Maybe anon meant "GB/GBC compatibility" which is correct.

>>3370564
A really rad Yamaha in fact.

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>>3372627

>>3372379
I think it was a mistake and the guy in charge was like "that's neat, let's keep it"

>>3372775
Yeah, it did a really good job producing those fart sounds

>>3372379
Holy shit, I never knew that the gloves change color. Fuck.

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>>3373229
They even added an extra glove in Ancient Stone Tablets

>>3372738
He's referring to Harmony of Dissonance though, a GBA title, which DS was BC with.
Maybe he's thinking of DSi?

>>3369468
You can just look at it and count them...

>>3375864
I think he meant that how do people figure out that there indeed is a separate 'eye' sprite behind Mario.

>>3372543
To be completely fair, the GBA's sound hardware is awful in general.

On a more personal note, I think the chiptune style music suits HoD very well and enhances the theme they were going for.

>>3376053
>GBA's sound hardware
Lol
I mean, there's no hardware at all.

>>3373594
I thought HoD used the Z80 processor to generate sound.

>>3376065
GB legacy hardware bro

>>3376069
The GB sound channels are built into the processor. The Game Boy uses a custom Z80 variant with sound support, not a stock Z80.

So you're technically correct, but it's the GBA's processor that feeds the sound data to the GB's processor's sound channels. It's all convoluted and really shitty design on Nintendo's part.

>>3375867
>behind
in front of

>>3376538
It's behind him
The eye is transparent and there's a white block behind his head

>>3376557
why would you do it that way round? Is the eye character used elsewhere?

>>3376564
No but it's much easier that way. If the white sprite was on top of Mario, there would need to be separate "white sprites" for every Mario's frame to accommodate for the head sprite's slight movements and differences.

>>3378161
devs fucked up badly, it seems. First sprite has no face, second sprite lacks a body