Understanding retro game trends visually

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(Same chart but with the PS2 fucking with the scaling more -- it's just Wikipedia numbers)

Why is the Mark 3 distinct from the SMS? The difference isn't bigger than between NES and Famicom.

>>3321648
>fucking with the scaling more
use a logarithmic scale

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easier to understand chart

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>>3321792
I wouldn't call semilog "helpful for seeing it, but meh it takes five seconds

>>3321875
the scaling is considerably less fucked. It's also virtually useless, but less fucked. Regardless, I think it's "interesting" how 7th gen was the only one without a clear dominator. Probably caused a few nightmares for some people in charge

>>3321879
Next closest tie is 4th gen, which is interesting considering how those two generations are the ones with the strongest console wars

>>3321907
I'll never understand console wars, and right now can't be arsed to give them more than a shrug. Makes me kind of glad though I don't do consoles. That stuff seems to be so un-fun.

>>3321642
>>3321875
What is the point of including overall sales in generations?

The PlayStation didn't sell that many units during the generation. Much if not most of the sales accrued after.

>>3321909
They used to be fun when consoles were still relevant. Winners, losers, drama and stiff competition with devs constantly trying to top each other with optimization and new experiences--it was great. Imagine having a great 2D sprite box for 4 years suddenly start pumping out primitive 3D thanks to a chip in a game you bought while the other guy had to buy a CD add-on to get anything similar. A bit more exciting than upgrading a PC since it was more about coaxing performance out of what was already there rather than buying new components outright, and bragging rights for making the "right" choice.

>>3321916
>They used to be fun when consoles were still relevant
no, not even then. They were an excellent deterrent for me

>suddenly start pumping out primitive 3D thanks to a chip
The SuperFX chip baffled me back in the days. You got a killer 2D console, that outperforms even DOS PCs, so you piss it all away for lackluster 3D that said DOS boxen did half a decade ago? Made absolutely no sense to me. It was such a confusing step backwards.

>bragging rights for making the "right" choice
yeah, a deterrent. I still think it was better for me that I skipped getting any of that hardware. Way too much hostility and brand loyalty and things that make no sense to me.

On the upside, tons of games from that time I can slowly play on my own pace.

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I was unaware that library sizes estimates were this shaky for so many consoles
>>3321914
Data availability, really. This is also useful for guessing at current abundance, as if we needed that.

Genesis sold 40 million units.

The 29/31 million figure literally represents console sales prior to Christmas 1994, unless you believe Sega didn't sell any consoles after that.

>>3321924
>so you piss it all away
A bit of an exaggeration, it's not like the superFX chip suddenly bricked the SNES and rendered it incapable of playing 2D games, or even discouraged 2D development. Kirby's Dreamland 3 did some crazy things with the basic hardware in '97.
>Way too much hostility
Why would this even be an issue though, you bought the box to play games, everything else was just meta discussion.
>It was such a confusing step backwards.
PCs were more powerful yes, but remember most kids didn't have access to one with 3D capabilities back then as it was very expensive and most were just workstations. That's why consoles were important in context, just like the Gameboy was despite being little more than tweaked 70s technology.

>>3321928
Really, Sega should've just released sales figures so we wouldn't be reduced to finding clippings in news articles to guess at regional sales and envelope-math them together. I went with 30M, and you could probably argue to me that 35M is more likely (it depends on which numbers you believe on NA sales).

Really, I'll probably just stack a second bar on the Genesis and label it 'contested'.

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>>3321938

>>3321642
>ITT: An autist finds Excel on mommies macbook

>>3321926
This statistic is US only?

>>3322256
It was a best stab at worldwide releases

>>3321909
I'm a console guy and I never got them either. People like this guy >>3321916 going on about console wars were always strange to me. But also by the 16 bit era I was getting extra jobs to buy more games and systems and that's continued to this day. So it wasn't ever about choosing the "right one" it was about enjoying them for the different experiences they bring.

>>3322263
console wars are essentially football club fandom, except your 'team' performance is also their popularity -- you identify with a team, and you sort of vicariously enjoy their wins. Not to mention most kids were stuck with one 'team', they didn't wanna think they had to lose with the loser.

>>3321642
>>3321648
>>3321875
This is anecdotal evidence, but in my experience Sony consoles were really badly built. Most people I know had at least 1 PS1 die on them if they used it a lot. In some cases like mine when I used to game a lot it was much more than that.

I bought,
>1 NES
>1 SMS,
>1 SNES,
>1 Genesis,
>2 Sega CDs(my fault though)
>1 gameboy
>1 gameboy color
>2 GBAs (dead battery on first)
>1 game gear
>1 nomad
>1 Xbox
>1 Xbox360
All still work to this day except the ones mentioned. On the Sony side

>5 PS1s
>3 PS2s
>4 PSPs
That's a bit extreme compared to normal I will grant, but I hardly know anyone who didn't have some failures. So that could be part of what looks like high sales numbers.

>>3322273
Yeah I've also never got sports fandom either. Watching actual games can be fun if it's interesting and the players are good but I could never get behind the whole rooting for "my" team. I only feel lke that when I'm playing.

▲
▲▲

>>3322274
>1 Xbox
>1 Xbox360
>All still work to this day
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,

>>3321642

Why are the Master System and Mark III ranked separately? The Mark III is just the Japanese version of the SMS. Those figures should be combined.

>>3322287
No joke. Though I didn't get a 360 at the start of the generation. It was one of the later models after all the shit hit the fan and I still use it almost every day. Original Xbox wasn't all that bad as I've heard. But also I barely used mine.

>>3322298
I have a xbox1 crystal and I literally had to build a new power supply. As the one inside was made so poorly all the soldering melted and it caught fire after a three months of use. Serves me right for importing.

>>3322304
Yipes, yeah that sounds like a nightmare. No question I got lucky with some and unlucky with others. I remember gluing a dime to the center of the disk tray on my first PS2 so that it would play blue discs again and I could finally beat Gradius V.

>>3322309
It's good it was build like a pc and the schematics for the power supply were easily available on the net.

>>3321930
>it's not like the superFX chip suddenly bricked the SNES and rendered it incapable of playing 2D games
no, it just bypassed all hardware graphics features. Up to that point the SNES was not CPU bound. It has a weak CPU, for a reason. Without any graphics support though, that weak CPU is painfully obvious and not doing well at all at the task. Because it was not made for that task.

>>3322531
Are you autistic? How does that have ANYTHING to do with the point I was originally making? Let me help you: 3D was difficult and expensive back then. Kids who owned/had access to a particular console because it was all they could afford (vast majority of kids) would've suddenly had access to 3D just by putting a new cartridge in, while other kids who didn't wouldn't be able to experience the magic. OK? I understand you're a pussy who "doesn't do consoles" because kids were "too hostile" but I'm just explaining what was fun about being a console kid back during that gen. If you owned both systems it was even better, as you could enjoy the fruits of the competition from both sides. That corporate competition led to a dynamic dev scene which constantly pushed the optimization and design of games which benefited the consumer. That's why "console wars" were good for the consumer. Today you get a AAA game for PC and find out it eats up 12 gb of RAM for no reason at all because everyone is using the same damn engines and can't be assed to properly optimize ports. There is no magic, no skillful programming, no surprises anymore, just shit. It's basically heading towards a monopoly on the console scene which is basically gimped PC architecture anyway. "Console wars"--competition--is good for the consumer.

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>>3322531
Not him but you're making it out like the FX chip tanked the SNES or something. I was even a mostly Genesis fan, but even I thought it was pretty cool to see Starfox running on it.


It was the same as with Virtua Racing. Sure the 3D was rudimentary, but it was still neat to see a console running games like that. And playing either of them didn't discount all the other beautiful 2D games there were.

>>3322574
>There is no magic, no skillful programming, no surprises anymore, just shit.

This guy is just as bad though. Just for different reasons.

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I thought this'd be more interesting before I made the chart, but here it is anyway.

>>3322581
>like the FX chip tanked the SNES or something
it bypassed the more capable parts of the SNES, including the majority of the PPU. It also had some extra overhead to represent its framebuffer through a grid of tiles, instead of flat memory. The SNES hardware is not made for 3D, at all. It takes active work to get 3D output DESPITE the PPU

>Sure the 3D was rudimentary, but it was still neat to see a console running games like that
Meanwhile its 2D was excellent. Got to embrace your strength. The polygonal 3D games weren't.

>playing either of them didn't discount all the other beautiful 2D games there were
It's not about the library. It's about these games looking bad, because they're running on the wrong hardware, hardware that's made for something entirely different. It's like taking a Ferrari for grocery shopping. You can do it, but it's awkward, you can barely carry anything in it, and you lose all the advantages the Ferrari would have had.

>>3322585
>waaah I can't handle criticism
what's with the sensitive flower children all of a sudden

>>3322594
>it bypassed the more capable parts of the SNES,
Yeah, to make it run something the system otherwise couldn't dream of. That's what made Starfox a neat novelty.

>Got to embrace your strength.
They already did embrace their strength. There's no shortage of awesome 2D games on the system. That was just them spreading out a little. If it offends you, just don't play the handful of games that used it.

>. It's about these games looking bad, because they're running on the wrong hardware

So don't play them then. For those of us who got that it was a 2D machine being tricked into running a decent and neat looking 3D shooter it was cool. If you don't get that, then that's your deal but having this much of a fit over it all these years later is pretty silly.

>and you lose all the advantages the Ferrari would have had.

Ferrari's are a lot about looks and status. There's almost nowhere public you can drive one where you can put even a fraction of it's power to actual use and it's never ever actually necessary. So as it's actual purpose which is being a big shiny status symbol, you do see people bring them to the grocery store.

>>3322595
I have no problem with criticism. That's just typical /vr/ whiny bitching about modern gaming. It's as lame and pointless as someone else's whiny bitching about someone daring to make a 3D game for SNES. You're both equally silly.

>>3322613
>It's as lame and pointless
You're on a retro video game board what exactly is the "point" of discussing any of this?

>>3322607
>to make it run something the system otherwise couldn't dream of
to make something run poorly. The SuperFX chip probably was more capable than what it showed. It was effectively slowed down by the SNES, because it had to work around it.

>They already did embrace their strength
not with the polygonal super fx games, and they look like outdated shit as a result

>If it offends you, just don't play the handful of games that used it.
>having this much of a fit over it all these years
it offends me on an architectural level

>decent and neat looking 3D shooter
in 1988 maybe. In 1993, not so much

>Ferrari's are a lot about looks and status
fine, take a Lotus then, dipshit. Or any <generic track day car>. Unless you prefer to be deliberately obtuse, in which case, fuck off.

>>3322613
>daring to make a 3D game for SNES
more like being foolish enough to make one

>>3322616
I don't know, you're the one who brought it up and started bitching about " Today you get a AAA game for PC and blah blah blah watch me whine!"

>>3322621
>to make something run poorly.
Meh, I like Starfox. It's not the most impressive game ever, but it's fun and looks neat on the system. You don't have to agree though.

>it offends me on an architectural level
lol that's just funny.

>>3321642
Does the Master System sales in that chart include Japan or was that factored only in the Mark III numbers? 'cause they had both, the Mark III and the Master System over there.

>>3322634
>but it's fun
probably

>looks neat
certainly not, at least not at its time

>You don't have to agree though
well, ain't it my lucky day? Go fuck yourself

>>3322638
>certainly not, at least not at its time
opinions are fun.

>Go fuck yourself
Sorry that not everyone gets triggered by Nintendo trying 3D on the snes 20 years ago. You're a grade A weirdo.

>>3322624
Because I was making the point that competition keeps the industry healthy for the consumer, today being an example of a relatively unhealthy market.

>>3322642
>Sorry
you aren't

>triggered by Nintendo trying 3D
more by your indefensibly arrogant position "permitting" me to disagree

>>3322643
I think today's market is very healthy. Possibly more than it was back then. You can say what you want, but if you bring it up I'm going to disagree.

>>3322651
>I think today's market is very healthy
Go ahead and disagree, if you have no arguments/examples to back it up it's irrelevant.

>>3322649
>you aren't
You got me. Not even a little. You're a tool and complaining about one of the most ridiculous things I can imagine.

>"permitting" me to disagree
If you didn't keep talking as if your opinion was objective fact I wouldn't have felt the need to point out we don't have to agree. I'm just making it clear to you that your opinion is just that, and doesn't represent anyone other than you. The way you attempt to make your point shows you don't seem to understand that concept.

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>>3322656
I don't think it's an argument. It's obviously a lot to do with opinion. But I see many people around here do as you do and just slip in bitching about modern gaming into posts as if it's just the way things are.

I love old and modern games alike. So if it's brought up I will disagree. I don't want to change your mind though. I could care less if you don't like them.

>>3322657
>one of the most ridiculous things I can imagine
Your imagination is terrible

>If you didn't keep talking as if your opinion was objective fact
and so is your reading comprehension. Unless of course you think the statements about the polygonal 3D bypassing most of the graphics hardware and having to work against it was "opinion"

>doesn't represent anyone other than you
for the parts that were opinion: likewise

>>3322664
Still not giving any examples, I don't care what you love, as that's subjective. I pointed out that today, despite having largely standardized architectures and it being easier than ever for devs to make games, the games themselves are unoptimized and unsurprising. The last major leaps were Crysis on the PC and motion stuff on the Wii--during 7th gen which, surprise surprise, was a gen with lots of competition and devs trying to get the most out of the Wii like the old days. Gen 8 is the opposite because it's a monopoly.

>>3322667
>. It's about these games looking bad,
>and they look like outdated shit as a result

Whatever you say buddy. Anyways I'm really just doing this to snicker at you being triggered over the whole situation. There's something funny about angry 2016 posts about the FX chip.

>>3322687
>There's something funny about angry 2016 posts about the FX chip.
some people deal with the relevant hardware even in 2016, though this might be a little bit over your head

>>3322683
>despite having largely standardized architectures and it being easier than ever for devs to make games, the games themselves are unoptimized and unsurprising
You understand neither optimization nor risk management

>>3322683
>Still not giving any examples

So what? You want a big discussion on modern gaming where I talk about all the ways I like it and then you complain about what you don't like? What's the point? Neither of us will ever agree. Anyways I don't really give too much of a fuck about optimization. If there are good games I enjoy I'm happy, and so far there hasn't been a year go by where that hasn't happened.

>>3321926
Holy hell, there were THAT many Saturn games?

>>3322692
I play SNES most days, brah. I just think it's super weird and kind of funny how upset you are that at one point they made Starfox 3D.

>>3322695
>You understand neither optimization nor risk management
Yeah, 12gb RAM for a console port is excellent optimization, or hideous texture pop-in all over the place because of poor coding. Risk management is a euphemism for spending as little money and effort as possible while maximizing profits. Now continue to tell me competition isn't healthy for the industry, I'm all ears.
>>3322696
So what? You want a big discussion on modern gaming where I talk about all the ways I like it and then you complain about what you don't like? What's the point?
I guess you see no point in it because you got triggered by a criticism of the current industry in relation to how it was and can't really respond.

>>3322701
>I play SNES most days
you're the only one talking about playing

>at one point they made Starfox 3D
at one point they made a severe conceptual mistake. If you can't see that, that's entirely your issue

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>>3322706
My response is that I think modern games on average are at least as good as retro ones, and that the industry is healthy and thriving. You can disagree, but these are just our opinions. And my opinion is the way it is because every year that comes along brings me more games I end up loving.

>>3322708
>at one point they made a severe conceptual mistake.
In your opinion. Not everyone agrees. If you can't see that, that's entirely your issue.

>>3322716
>You can disagree, but these are just our opinions
Except I'm backing mine up with facts while you're just making assertions. Learn how to debate, your opinions aren't factual unless they're backed up by information, not feelings.

>>3322716
>Not everyone agrees
Fair enough. As long as you understand that not everyone disagrees either.

>>3322725
First off, this isn't a debate. At least I'm making no attempt to debate with you. I'm not interested in changing your mind or "winning" any sort of argument. You can dislike modern games as much as you want. But pepper your posts with bitching about them and I will mock you for it.

The only "evidence" I need that I like modern gaming is the pile of modern games I love playing which is 100% subjective. I don't expect or care for you to agree or like any of the same things.

>>3322729
Sure.

>>3322739
>First off, this isn't a debate.
>But pepper your posts with bitching about them and I will mock you for it.
So, you admit you're just trolling?
>The only "evidence" I need that I like
No, that's not evidence, but you aren't even trying to debate in the first place are you.

>>3321928
>Genesis sold 40 million units

Where did you get that information from? I've seen this on /vr/ quite a bunch of times and I'm yet to see the source. Every website I check says 30 million or bellow.

>>3321928
>Sega didn't sell any consoles after that
isn't that why they left the console business behind?

>>3322747
>So, you admit you're just trolling?
No. You bring up that you think modern games suck and I'm going to disagree. That's not trolling. I'm just saying I recognize there isn't a real debate here and certainly no point for it. It's all just opinion. You give yours I will give mine.

>No, that's not evidence,
Which is why I used quotation marks. That's the point.

>>3322636
That figure includes the mk. 3 with the master system

>>3322760
Mocking someone's viewpoint without backing it up with anything is trolling. And no, it's not "all just opinion" if one side is giving facts and the other one is waffling around "refusing" to debate (while failing miserably at debating). Your hot opinions are worth jack.

>>3322698
http://segaretro.org/List_of_Saturn_Games_(A-M)
The percentage of localizations is absolutely terrible (~19%)

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>>3322772
>Your hot opinions are worth jack
hey now

>>3322749
http://segatastic.blogspot.com.au/2009/12/mega-drive-sales-figures-update.html

>Every website I check says 30 million or bellow.

That's because everybody is mindlessly quoting the lead up to Holiday 1994 figure.

>>3322749
He's alluding to a figuring done on a blog. The commonly reported number refers to a sales quote given in 1994.

http://segatastic.blogspot.com/2009/12/mega-drive-sales-figures-update.html

The thrust of the argument (because SEGA never reported total sales like Nintendo did) is that the quoted number can't be right, because it would mean there were very low sales in a year known to have good sales.

so true

>>3322772
I've had enough "debates" here with people who hate modern gaming to know how pointless it is to try and have a real discussion about it. But by the same token when I see this kind of stupid complaining

>There is no magic, no skillful programming, no surprises anymore, just shit.

I am going to respond to it. But there really isn't a "debate" to be had beyond just bantering opinions back and forth.

>Your hot opinions are worth jack.
Both of ours are. That's the point.

>>3322798
>Both of ours are. That's the point.
but who's opinion is hotter?!

>>3322798
>I am going to respond to it.
But be completely unable to back it up because you can't.
>But there really isn't a "debate" to be had beyond just bantering opinions
There's this thing called "facts" you might want to look into it.
>Both of ours are.
Not if one is supported and the other isn't.

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>>3322801
Both are RED HOT

>>3322804
>But be completely unable to back it up because you can't.

It's an opinion. There's no point backing anything up because it's personal. How hard is that to understand? It's a FACT that every year has given me a bunch of new games I love. That's the only fact that matters to me.

>>3322813
>every year has given me a bunch of new games I love
You disgust me, appreciating games and shit. Where's your outrage?!

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>>3322816
Sorry! I forgot everything went to shit in 1999. Nothing good or new or surprising could or will every get made ever and the industry that used to be egalitarian and only out to make children happy is now a vile corporate money machine. I'll go be angry about everything and sulk that kids these days want to play Halo and Cowadoody instead of awesome games like Sonic 2 for ever and ever amen.

This thread has been fun.

>>3322813
>There's no point backing anything up because it's personal (to me)
So why even respond in the first place, to mock and troll because I criticized something you like? You aren't interested in debating anything, providing any "facts" other than "I like x and feel this way" yet felt the need to mock a viewpoint someone else was putting forward. In other words, you're easily triggered cancer.

>But that's just like, your opinion, man.

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>>3322834
Because it was fun. And I find sour people like you entertaining to poke. Sorry but not really.

>>3322772
>>3322791

haha ye

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>>3322842

>>3322852
:)

>>3322716
What game

>>3322779
So there's just this entire giant fuckload of games we never got overseas.

I'm a little bit peeved now, I didn't know I was missing out on so much.

>>3323219
The good news is that a large percentage of the good games don't use much Japanese, or natively have English anyway.

>>3322247
mommy's*

>>3323487
The good news is that many people on this board know Japanese.

>>3323534
>intolerant homophobic prude doesn't accept that a kid can have two mommies
Shouldn't you be shooting up a night club or something Achmed?

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>>3322698
>>3322779
>>3323219

>I caused that feel

>>3323173
Dragon's Dogma.

>>3323832
Actually ignorance caused that feel. But you certainly did help a few kids to become less ignorant.