Is Baldur's Gate the Holy Grial of wRPG?

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It's certainly one of the defining titles.

There's different kinds of wRPG though, we have Diablo, which is more action oriented, then there's games like Deus Ex and Morrowind, which are a bit different, and arguably more advanced in some manners.

It's like saying "Doom is the Holy Grail of FPS", and while it's great, important, genre defining, and has a long lasting appeal (one of my very favorites), there's games just a few years later which help revolutionize and set standards in their own ways, all of which are important and shining examples of their genre, Doom was a crucial element of the genre, but the genre would also be very empty without games like Duke Nukem 3D, Quake and Half-Life.

Likewise, as much as I think Baldur's Gate is a very important title, a game which is good, and a dear part of my childhood, I kind of hesitate to use terms like "Holy Grail", because many games aim to do kind of their own thing, Baldur's Gate happens to be a wRPG which does what it tries to do really well.

Though I guess I'm rambling.

>>3265658
Not as long as Fallout exists. But Baldur's is good.

>>3265658
No, that would be Skyrim :^)

>>3265787
> Fallout
Close runner up, but too much freedom is not desirable in a rpg, where you also want story. Besides, exploring in Baldur's Gate was better done, they put a lot of enphasis into making the region rich and interesting.
But Fallout has been always more popular, first because of the continuous succesors, and second because of its post-apocaliptic theme.
>>3265902
> Skyrim
(you) :^)

>>3266046
>but too much freedom is not desirable in a rpg
I think that depends on what kind of RPG you're actually looking at doing.

Morrowind and some Ultima titles comes to mind.

>>3265658
It's a haircup

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>>3265658
If a gigantic load of background lore, and the option of getting into the setting in a more hands on fashion are pros to you, then...

YES. ABSOLUTELY.

>>3266049
Ultima gives you a lot of freedom without giving up the story. Morrowind gives you a lot of towns that looks alike and no story.

>>3266497
>no story
But that's wrong.

>>3266495
Nigger that's a map of the Realms from thousands of years ago

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>>3267510
It's not a map of the realms, it's specifically the region around BG and BG2, which admittedly is quite neglected on the novel end, whether or not it also is weakly represented in modules.

I've certainly been waiting for something better which has never come. BG just has too much variety and re-playability combined with a basic game model that just works too well.

>>3265658
It could have been a good game if not for the horrible point & click interface and complete lack of controls. The Infinity Engine is an albatross around otherwise decent game design. A game where you have no direct control over your charater is not the holy grail of anything.

>>3265658

Amazing thing about BG for me is monster placement.

They put a huge variety of enemies in each dungeon often associated with little side-stories that always made sense. You never hack through the same enemies for a longer period of time.

>>3267972
lolno

It's a good compromise between comfort and action.

The Baldur's Gate games are the "Holy Grail" of computer role-playing games, yes. There is so much in them that's good and so few flaws.

I'm really struggling to think of some flaws, actually.

>>3265658
Nope. Not when there's Ultima, TES, Wizardry.

Baldur's Gate really isn't even that good. It's kind of janky and lame, even at the time it came out.

Like if you've ever heard people talk about Baldur's Gate without playing it, whatever you imagine the game to be will always be better than what it actually is.

>>3269932
>It's kind of janky and lame
As opposed to Wizardry or Ultima?

I'll give you that TES is better.

>>3265658
This question is kind of subjective, mostly because people prefer different settings. I think if you're talking in terms of traditional dungeons and dragons fantasy type setting, then probably. As much as I appreciate TES series and Ultima, Might & Magic, etc., I keep coming back to BG. Its gameplay makes the most sense, has lots of replayability (because a lot of builds are viable and this was only increased in future iterations of games using the infinity engine), and the story actually isn't a tired one.

But if you like sci-fi, Fallout 1/2 takes the cake, mostly for the same reasons.

However, if you try to be as objective as possible in terms of the actual term "role-playing", I believe Fallout is better simply because it's possible to get through the entire game without killing anyone and keeping combat to a minimum. This can't be done in BG. Combat is mandatory.

Another one that I think is often overlooked for this title and at the very least is right on the heels of these two franchises is Arcanum. It's a nice blend of both of those games, while having a LOT of different ways to get through the game. The only problem it really had was balance in that magic was so over powered there was no reason to try anything else despite a lot of the weapons in the game (melee, ranged, throwing, and otherwise) were very interesting. The "aerial decapitator" for example, was fucking awesome in every way even in damage, but still did no damage compared to "harm" which a mage could have at the start of the game and it only got more and more powerful, so much so that you could kill the final boss with it.

Man, that was an awesome game.

>>3270061
>I believe Fallout is better simply because it's possible to get through the entire game without killing anyone and keeping combat to a minimum.

I get that its an interesting challenge run goal, but this sentiment is puzzling.

Also Arcanum isn't very fun. Troika's worst game.

>>3270428
Blowing mofos away is always fun, but sometimes it's also fun to talk your way out of situations, maybe it's the best way to solve a quest or to get certain items.

>>3266497
Morrowind is like Dark Souls with its story. It gives you a lot to interpret and understand through the environment and little pieces of dialogue rather than just explaining everything to you.

>>3265658
No, Planescape: Torment or Fallout 1/2 are.

>>3271294
Most of the backstory and setting in Morrowind, and indeed every TES game is delivered in the form of fucking books, literally actual novel length books in game.

In that way it is of course nothing like Dark Souls at all.

>>3271446
A lot of it comes from talking to people, just small talking to random people can sometimes lead to them telling you things, though some topics could be rather samey (such as everyone occasionally bringing up Solstheim in Morrowind), specific people could have specific things to say, there's way more to it than just reading books.

>>3271519
Some of it is in scripted dialogue with specific quest related npcs and important people.

Some of it is in the architecture and placement of locations and their meaning and contents.

The vast majority of it is buried in the in game literature.

>>3271550
A lot of the ingame literature is a treat to read though.

>>3267637
So are all of the infinity engine games taking place in the same world? I'm just starting BG1 and I'm having trouble figuring out which cities are part of Amn and which aren't

>>3271702
Says the Lusty Argonian fan.

>>3265658
If what you mean is the best, then probably.

If what you mean is the thing everyone should strive for then I'd say no. It was awesome but I wanted more focus on story and more relations. I wish there was a game with similar mechanics and more stuff to it. I think BG1 was more suitable to me as BG2 and its expansion was one long boss battles run.

>>3272454
That's just a funny easter egg, there's a bunch of interesting random books to read, like Breathing Water, The Cake And The Diamond, Azura And The Box, Bone Part I & II

>>3271702
I didn't say it wasn't
>>3272454
>plenty of time my dear, plenty of time.

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>>3272450
Yup, in a rather limited section of it. Nashkel is part of Amn. The baldur's gate games take place in the vertical middle of that map. Icewind dale takes place just above the top of that map. It extends far beyond.