Should Sonic Team have just let Mario have the "3D platformer

Considering that every 3d Mario has been inferior to Mario 64, no.

Stop crying, Nights was better than a 3D Sonic game could have been on the Saturn.
Shiggy himself praised Naka for Nights.

>>3229427
not crying, and I'm trying to say that they shouldn't have even tried to 3D Sonic on the Saturn. 2D Sonic would have been the better way to go. Level design was already at its peak, as was the physics system. Just needed to improve sound quality, visual quality, and boost the amount of content. Just refine the fuck out of it.

Still haven't played NiGHTS yet.

>>3229441

It'd still be a 2D game.
The 3D Sonic game you're looking for is Sonic Adventure.

I don't hate SA, but trust me, the Saturn is better with Nights. A Saturn SA wouldn't be as good to play today as Nights is.

Sega came up with the ideas of chaos control and sticking sonic in costumes far too late.

He could have totally been the MC of Nights.

>>3229457
>It'd still be a 2D game
I know. That's what I wish would have happened.

>>3229475

Yeah but if Naka worked on a 2D Sonic game, Nights would have never created.

Sonic 2D had a good run. In barely 5 years Sonic had 4 great mainline games, and a lot of side games or handheld games (some of them good, some bad).
Naka didn't want to make yet another 2D Sonic game and it's understandable. People would have reacted a bit sour back then, too. People wanted 3D, not another 2D. Nowdays we love to play 2D and also they have become rare in this day and age, but back then, 2D was the norm and 3D was the rare thing everyone wanted to experience.
Nights isn't 3D but it does the trick pretty amazingly, and as a game it's its own thing, different from Sonic.

Sonic World on Sonic Jam is pretty impressive and a nice tease at how a Saturn Sonic could be, but I often found myself having trouble calculating jumps while doing the mini-missions it has. The controls weren't perfect, they solved that in Sonic Adventure with the homing attack and the somersault that lets you calculate your jumps and landing more easily.

If the 32X hadn't been a thing, what was supposed to be Sonic 4 would have ended up on the Saturn. But they ended up cutting down what they were working on to shit out Chaotix.

Yes. Undoubtedly, yes.

>>3229414
Sonic Adventure is an objectively better and more entertaining game than any of the shitsonics (2, 3, S&K)

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>>3229651
weak b8

>>3229727
no my favorite sonic games are actually sonic cd and sonic adventure and the game gear sonics

>>3229742
How can you like CD but think the other Megadrive games are shit?

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>>3229651

Sonic 1-3&K were essentially back to back one hit wonders that cannot be replicated anymore.

The original team just did everything perfectly in a way that can't be done again.

Look at how horrible their attempts to copy it have been. The music in Sonic 4 is what you'd get off you asked a nu male hipster to recreate what he thinks retro Sonic sounds like

>>3229727
>>3230631
You scrubs probably haven't even leaned to properly spindash.>>3229742
Same they are just more fun and the graphics and music capture my love.

>>3230649
By definition it isn't a one hit wonder if a group has more than one hit.

>>3230678
>he needs spindash
LMFAO

what a fucking scrub

>>3229414

>they could have polished up his 2D gameplay even more.

Sonic would've been ripped apart for staying 2d. Reviewers would've shit on it and called it "outdated" while consumers would rather spend their money on shiny new 3d games.

>>3230732
I don't remember Kirby 64 getting shit on by reviewers or selling poorly.

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>>3229414
>Should Sonic Team have just let Mario have the "3D platformer crown" during the 5th Generation?
should haves and would haves don't interest me when regarding this Sega CD/32X/Saturn thing. The present is directly the result of decisions made in the past and they aren't going to change. If I could change things, I would leave things be.

Everyone making consoles and videos games during the mid-90s were winners. They just wanted to make us happy. I'm happy.

i'm not trying to curb discussion or anything, it's just how I feel on the matter and I have a nice afterglow going. Please continue.

>>3229414
Better question:
Do you guys think that Sonic Xtreme could have happened if it weren't for corporate interference like Yuji Naka refusing to let the team use his Nights engine? Would it have been a fun game?

>>3230747
And I recall Symphony of the Night getting good reviews, Super Meat Boy also got good reviews, nobody says a bad thing about Ori and the Blind Forest, Bunny Must Die was also good, as was Castle in the Darkness, Hyper Light Drifter, and Binding of Issac. Many 3D sequels and original IPs alike get their shit pushed in for camera and control issues. To me, the only 3D game on the PSX to lack these issues is Soul Reaver.

The problem was that Sony was riddled with graphic whores and folded their arms and pouted when the subject of two dimensional games came up. There is, was, and will be a demand for 2D games. 3D hardly works unless the Z axis allows for imprtant mechanics in the game like Dragon's Dogma or Monster Hunter.

>>3229414
Nintendo should have never bothered with 3D Mario and keep making great 2D stuff instead of the cheap New series. 3D turned developers into retarded cunts.

>>3230761
Why are you comparing modern games like Super Meat Boy to 5th gen games and the circumstances surrounding them?

>>3230772
Because Sony assfucked 2D devs when they had one of the strongest positions in the industry for a decade, causing a massive black hole where few 2D games were released, and when they were it was to zero fanfare. It actually became a "taboo" of sorts.

How many 6th Gen games were entirely in 2D? I can only name two off the top of my head: Klonoa and Odin Sphere.

All the ones I listed are on the PC, meaning that the hole only became filled when that became the strongest platform in terms of raw power.

>>3230761

> Super Meat Boy also got good reviews, nobody says a bad thing about Ori and the Blind Forest, Bunny Must Die was also good, as was Castle in the Darkness, Hyper Light Drifter, and Binding of Issac

Oh man I had no idea all of those games were released in the 5th gen.

>>3230785
<- The point

I'll post your head on an autosaged thread about to fall off the board.

>>3230781
>How many 6th Gen games were entirely in 2D?
Viewtiful Joe, Contra: Shattered Soldier, Alien Hominid, DK Jungle Beat, and of course, Cave Story.

>>3230763
>3D turned developers into retarded cunts.
Not really, as some were already retarded to begin with (see those who developed shit like FMV games and bland cash-ins that tried capitalizing on a popular series of the era; Sonic being a great example).

>>3230794
Out of all those, the only ones I know are Viewtiful Joe and Cave Story. And I know a fuckton of games.

>>3230801
Isn't that just your fault for being ignorant then?
Also, Odin Sphere. Gradius V. R-Type Final.

>>3230801
Gonna call ignorance here, they're hardly little-known and furthermore your foreknowledge of them is irrelevant to their existing at the time.

>>3230826
No anon, you are the ignorant one claiming that there was even a significant number of 2D games on the PS2

It's a good question OP but it would have almost certainly had Sega ridiculed beyond belief had they stuck to 2d at that point in time. Back then all the gaming press were going wild for 3d and 2d was seen as totally old hat. It could have been the best Sanic game ever but the media would have crucified it and therefor it would have bombed.

Plus as a hardcore sonic fan at the time i know i was desparate to see the game in 3d, it's just a shame that by the time adventure came along they'd given sonic a stupid voice and a bunch of shit mates.

>>3229414
What they should have done was quickly slap together a fancy 2D Sonic game (with gimmicky true 3D special stages) on the Saturn to buy time for Sonic's true 3D debut. They didn't have to give up entirely, but insisting that Sonic's first real Saturn game be 3D when they didn't have a good game in the works was what killed Sonic on the Saturn.

>>3230789
Not that anon, but the poster he replied to was an idiot.

Original argument:
>the 5th gen market was tired of 2D

"Counter" argument:
>but the modern market loves 2D!

SOTN was the only example in that post that was relevant. SOTN was the exception that proves the rule. It got great reviews because it had great design in SPITE of being a 2D game. Is 2D did it no favors during that time.

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I'm a little mixed.

On one hand, I've heard that the Saturn is way better at handling 2D games, and I feel like they'd be able to do more with it than the attempts at 3D.

On the other hand, it's pretty damn hard to outdo Sonic 3&K's presentation while still staying fresh. The game's not my favorite in the 2D series, but the scope and level design is so large that my pathetic mind is having trouble seeing how they could expand beyond that. As well, I'm one of the people who liked Sonic Adventure despite the rough edges, and I feel like cancelling 3D Sonic development in the 5th gen altogether would remove it from history.

If it's possible, I'll make a compromise: Sonic Team should have kept on trying to put Sonic in 3D, while Sega Technical Institute worked on 2D Sonic.

>>3230710
Im talking about Sonic Adventure dipshit. Oh wait you haven't played it so you took my words out of context. Fuck you faggot.

>>3232270
>using spindash in ANY Sonicge
Confirmed casual shitter homobutt.

>>3229414
They should have been focused on 2D in the fifth generation due to hardware limitations, and also should have only made ONE style of gameplay for all the characters in Sonic Adventure, leaving time for them to polish the coding, make the game harder, and take out a lot of pointless automation.