>playing for the story

I was going to type out a paragraph but I'll just give an example of an arcade game. Why an arcade game? Because arcade games more so than any other game rely on game play more than anything else.

Half of Outrun's appeal is the idea of having a hot girlfriend and driving by a bunch of palm trees in a Ferrari. That was its hook. It had fantastic gameplay too with the traditional arcade style "see how far you can go with that credit". But the simple story was the hook.

I'm not so much into story as characters, but having some story-ish scenes or at least dialog while you play lets characters do various charactery things, so I enjoy getting to know the characters.

>>3158031
>Seriously though, to which degree does the allure of the narrative and the craftsmanship and general quality of the storytelling factor into your enjoyment of a game? Is excellence in storytelling sufficient to make you look beyond deficits in gameplay? Let's get this discussion rolling or die trying.

Yes, but in my case I prefer a good story in whatever I play, watch, read, or listen to.
Gameplay is fun, and I've played some really fun games before, but when it comes right down to it, the games with the best or most interesting stories are the games I remember the most. They're the ones that really stick with me.

That isn't to say I don't like the likes of Outrun or Street Fighter, which don't rely on narrative and focus more on gameplay, it's just that I feel story can conceivably save an otherwise mediocre game.

Deadly Premonition comes to mind. One of my favorite games, despite giving you buggy gameplay, infinite ammo, and samey enemies. It's literally an RE4 ripoff when it comes to gameplay, but the story, a shameless ripoff of Twin Peaks that evolves into a heartfelt homage with its own things to say, made it into something more.

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Gameplay > characters > music > story

>>3158031
Carmegeddon and Blood were the greatest love stories ever told.

>>3158031

Like any medium, a game can be exceptional based on nearly any aspect of it. Final Fantasy Tactics would not be the same without it's narrative. Jet Set Radio would not be the same without it's visual style and music.

Other aspects still generally have to be at least passable, though.

only if the story is good or engaging

the literal bare minimum for a good story is that it has to make you care, no matter how "ridiculous" it is.

>archetypes and tropes
No, you nigger, the problem with them is that they are essentially genre fiction. As in, writing merely for entertainment. Why would anyone want to read that shit? It's as bad as television. If someone ever says they read Stephen King, JRR Tolkien, or anyone of that ilk, I cut off contact immediately.

>>3158586
you sound like a fun person to be around.

>>3158586
>If someone ever says they read Stephen King, JRR Tolkien, or anyone of that ilk, I cut off contact immediately.

thank fucking lord you do

>>3158586
How do you feel about Dan brown?

>>3158617
I'm fairly certain he is of the aforementioned ilk, you stooge.
>>3158614
Yes, I do it to save us both the trouble of trying to communicate with one another.

>>3158031
Story is incidental, gameplay, music and art direction, which also includes character design, are more important.
>>3158586
>Trope and archetypes
>genre fiction

You sound like the average autistic STEMfag, luckily people like you have no social skills whatsoever and spare us from your atrocious closemindedness and ignorance.

>>3158031
I played Xenogears for the plot as the developers made everything to make the experience annoying to play through.

Genre fiction is for low intelligent Neanderthals who lack the intelligence to appreciate literary fiction.

>>3158849
Literary fiction is for pretentious normalfags who can't see beyond their social status games.

>>3158851
Pretentious
/prJˈtɛnʃəs/
adjective
A word used by unintelligent people and things to describe intelligent and sophisticated things that they do not have the intellectual capability to understand. From the French prétention.

Here is a list of people in this thread who need to kill themselves:

>>3158903
>>3158851
>>3158849
>>3158681
>>3158632
>>3158586

All stories have been told in one form or another, it's not about the novelty of the tale but how you tell it. Likable characters are really the key for this.

>>3158926
You don't know how to read. Go read Bloom.

>>3158926
Almost right, but there is occasionally real novelty. This is why hard sci-fi is the only genre worth reading.

>>3158903
You should look up irony, too, your post is a clear example of it.

>>3158975
>I disagree with you therefore you're stupid
Back to your Bernie rally, kid.

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>>3158586
/lit/ please leave

Ah great, I was waiting for this thread to show the signs of /pol/tards.
Off to page 10 you go.

>>3158984
Well we all knew that /pol/ was in this thread, but thanks for confirming it.

Man I fucking hate what 4chan has turned into over the past few years.

>>3158031
I would never play a video game for the story.

>>3159028
>if you're not a Bernout you're a /pol/ack
Wew lad. Go call everyone who disagrees with you 'ignorant' and shout down all opposing view points with slander, violence, and intimidation. Are you one of Bernie's brown shirts from Rebbit?

>>3158849

>Says this

>Probably watches summer blockbusters and listens to popular music

>>3159087

Literally /pol/

What /pol/ fags don't understand is that they're not hated because of their political stance, they're hated because they bring their political stance into unrelated discussions

>>3159104
>literally
No wonder you like genre fiction.

Lately I've been really annoyed by those image macros that normies call memes that bitch about multiplayer games and then say we need more "great stories" like Skyrim. Story in a video game is just window dressing to contextualize the game play. It was even worse in the /vr/ days when translators were usually given contextless, out of order walls of text that they then had to make fit on the cart. See Jap Twitter for how many more words you can fit in 128 characters compared to english. The fact we had almost coherent dialouge at all back in the day was a goddamn miracle, but they weren't good stories even before going through the 90s jap to english meat grinder.

And it didn't matter. We had great games, even RPGs, with dog shit stories. Story can make a game better, but I'd never play a game because a friend said it had a good story despite bad gameplay.

>>3158031
>games are pointless
you must have a xbone ps4

>>3158984
Who are you quoting?

>>3159183
It's called paraphrasing.

>>3159183
I'm quoting anon.
>greentext means direct quote
N-new

Games don't always have great stories but since you're so much more involved with a game than you are a book or a movie, it has more of an impact. You're actually IN the game, participating in it as the main character. It doesn't have to be amazingly well written to have an affect on you

>>3159190
You can't introduce new ideas in paraphrasing. You can when you're desperately trying to save face when you've been handed your own ass.

>>3159264
>I-I-I didn't s-s-say that, b-baka
Yes you did. Kill yourself.

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>>3159087
If you drag a political candidate you don't like into a conversation about video games you're a /pol/lack

The story of a game is a vehicle for gameplay. It sets up your motivation to do whatever it is the game is asking you to do.

Even brainless shmups and shooters had some semblance of a plot, in order to give reasoning to all the explosions, shooting, and rad powerups.

So if it's actually good, and doesn't get in the way of you having fun with the game, it's better than something totally barebones.

>>3159267
See, you're doing it again. Seek help, I think you're deranged.

>>3159087
>referring to individuals who prequent /pol/ as "/pol/ack" instead of /pol/tard or /pol/fag

Yup, you're definitely from /pol/. Enjoy being cancer.

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FFT had a really good story.

>>3158031
I play games for their story and settings more than for gameplay and characters (not that those aren't important.) I can tolerate some bad gameplay to an extent if the story is worth it. Being able to interact and actively explore a setting I like is what makes games unique from movies or books.

>>3158048
>>3158184
Wrong.

Case in point, OMF2097:

Characters = story.

Also, hyperblade.

Music > story > gameplay.
Characters ⊂ Story.

>>3158031
>Not making your own headcannon
Tisk tisk/vr/

>>3158031
>Is excellence in storytelling sufficient to make you look beyond deficits in gameplay?
I actually pushed through shit gameplay in Persona 2 for its story so I guess, yeah.

>>3158031
>begins thread with inflammatory stance
>pulls a 180 in spoiler text
>OP image is a game with exceptional story and gameplay
Well fuck, not bad, OP.

Regarding story, sometimes simplistic narratives are all that is required to propel good gaming experience. Not all genres require great stories- I don't think anyone can argue with that. The most complex narratives often emerge from RPGs and adventure games, which use it as a crutch to support gameplay that is not necessarily difficult or reactionary. When the two blend harmoniously, it results in something great. When one is more compelling than the other, it magnifies the flaws of the weaker element.

However, the ambiguity of video games and their objective quality can often be supplemented with simplistic story that garners a more emotionally invested reaction, like in Super Metroid, or the Mega Man (X, though that eventually became too convoluted) franchises. In any case, is story necessary? No, but many gamers also cite repetition as a flaw of some franchises. It presents an interesting paradox.

>>3160242

This

I don't play games with shit story.

I mean, I can easily play a game with forgettable story or no story at all. I'm talking about these games that shove a SHITTON of story down your throat and it's absolute garbage. Right now I can only think of the Super Robot Wars Series. I know it's more of a fanservice thing but even the OG series are like this. "Oh but you shouldn't care for the story", but I can't when they shove half an hour of shit dialogues in your face.

>>3161174
I've been playing Fantasy Life, a 3DS RPG with a job-based, yet Harvest Moon-y sort of feel, and it has this exact problem. It's got cute character design, buttloads of quests, and Nobou Uematsu music, but they shove "clever" dialogue down your throat at every fucking turn. It's unbearable.

>>3161174
I can understand you being frustrated with SRW fanservice stories, but going after the OG series that don't require intimate knowledge of 70s-80s-90s mecha series? What's your problem?

Why doesn't FFT do a prelude game? Balbanes being the main guy and such, explore the 50 year war. That would be great and I love the world they built in the game, a great rendition of ivalice. It could be pretty fuckin gritty and dark, since it was a 50 year war littered with famine and death, and without really any zodiac interference so it could really have some great plot schemes.

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>>3161289
>tfw matsuno is ded*
ded = working on mobile games and failed kickstarter projects

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>>3158031

>WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE STORIES IN GAMES WAH WAH

Cry more you stupid faggot. No one worth their salt will tell you that story is more important than gameplay, but really faggot you need i say i say NEED to get over yourself.

Instead of worrying about what other people like, you should focus on other things.

>>3161443
if i had your reading comprehension, i wouldn't care about story either

>>3161495

Reading comprehension has nothing to do with not checking a spoiler.

>>3158031
The games I play would end in minutes if I didn't play for the story. I play a lot of visual novels.

>>3161289
Because apparently they decided to go in the "let's have kids throw snowballs at each other and then shoehorn ivalice at some point" direction.

Tactics Advance still pisses me off a little.

>all these people who didn't bother reading OP's spoiler

>>3158181 knew what the fuck was up.

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>>3158586

>>3161794
I look at advance as some disjointed connection that's fun in its own right. But I am pissed off at all that has been ignored with the world they had made so well in the original. Seriously, I salivate at the thought of exploring the fifty years war.

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Posting literal shit

It really depends on the genre, but a well made video game will usually manages to have the gameplay and setting carry through an interesting series of events that can make up for an interesting story.

Unfortunately a lot of modern high budget games that somehow get praised for its "great story" use QTEs as a way to not use any kind of gameplay to wrap up the events of the game, wich leads to a game getting old after the first time you have played it.

Fortunately those games are in the minority but it's sad that people who buy these are okay with that kind of "storytelling".

>>3163298
overrated

Only times i gave a shit about story in a game was when I really enjoyed the gameplay and setting. That's when I get invested.

An engaging story can't make a bad game good, but it can make a good game amazing.

>>3166237
likewise, a dull story can fuck up an otherwise possibly entertaining game

>>3166706
I don't agree with that. If the game itself is interesting it doesn't need story at all. And bad story can just be ignored. The only case is something with a ton of unskippable text, but at that point it would be bad already because of that.

>>3166718
>If the game itself is interesting it doesn't need story at all
correct

>And bad story can just be ignored
How much patience do you have to ignore hours of exposition constantly interrupting your fun?

>The only case is something with a ton of unskippable text, but at that point it would be bad already because of that.
Let's cut to the chase. I dropped FF7 because of the story. It didn't grip me. After Midgar I stopped caring for the group, and eventually just stopped playing, because the story tried to push me to go wherever it pleased, and I had no personal investment. I'd say there are a lot of people arguing the game's a good one, and I won't even disagree. The story got in the way though, simple as that.

I'm quite confident it's not the only example. RPGs in particular to some degree rely on the balance of story and mechanics. If the story fails to support the mechanics, they end up as grind. If the mechanics stall the story, the game ends up longwinded.

>>3166736
>correct
well, I should correct myself. Gameplay purity is a bit of a myth thing, imho. In many genres you do need some kind of motivation for the game mechanics. Take the example of an RPG already mentioned. If you go all out on the "doesn't need story at all" bit, you'd have to be able to strip all characters, the location, everything that's world building. If you do that, you end up with a number cruncher. It can be entertaining, but most of the time it isn't. Even something as simple as naming your primary number cruncher "Human thief", and stating a goal of "retrieve the lost X of Y", you got a story, but you also introduced motivation, context, that (correctly) frame the computations as approximations of character interaction. There are pure gameplay genres, no doubt. But saying story is never needed, at all, is a bit broad, I think

>>3166736
>I dropped FF7 because of the story. It didn't grip me.

That's a JRPG. The genre is almost all linear stories you play through. The genre in general is very light on gameplay, so yes if you remove the story I think you would be left with a bad game. As is it's a middling game that some people enjoy because of the story.

>>3166749
There's a difference of course between a pre-written scripted story that is the plot of the game you're playing and the kinds of stories that come out of gameplay.

>>3166237

>implying

There are plenty of games that people wouldn't give a shit about if not for their excellent stories.

>>3158031
I hate cutscenes and don't give a shit about the story. It's a game.

>>3158614
>thank fucking lord you do
But not the Lord Of The Rings, right?

>>3166904
Personally I think if a game would be bad if you took away the story then even with the story it's not all that good.

The problem I'm seeing here and on /v/ is that everybody seems to feel that video games should cover one thing and one thing only: gameplay. The fact is video games haven't been that simple since the late 70's.

Zork, a gamechangingly famous classic, just doesn't have good gameplay. It relies on trial and error and luck. What made it interesting was worldbuilding and its story. If you were just in a series of tunnels that ended with "you win!" you would never have played it for long.

The thing is Zork isn't that kind of game and was never intended to be. Gameplay wasn't its only trait, and despite popular belief around here that isn't even a bad thing.

Fast forward about 30 years and you have a walking simulator like Dear Esther. Barely qualifies as a game. Sure you can walk around and occasionally check things, but its really just an audio book with interesting and occasionally spooky visuals. Again gameplay wasn't the point, and again gameplay wasn't its only trait.

Why isn't this a bad thing, though? Market saturation. Back in the day we got plenty of game releases, but nowhere near to the extent of the present where there are at least 10 new games released every day, some with good gameplay, some with bad gameplay, and some with no focus on gameplay at all. If there's a game you don't like, then you have literally thousands of others to choose from with hundreds more coming out every year. This adds plenty of room for any format or focus that fits your taste.

Way I see it, if a developer is only interested in telling an engaging and memorable story while showing a minimal interest in gameplay, and delivers said story, then it's good. The dev succeeded in what he set out to do. You don't like it, then you're not his target audience.
Likewise if a dev doesn't care about story and only wants to deliver innovative gameplay, and he does it, then it's just as good in that particular direction.
On rare occasion you get both. That's a masterpiece.

>>3158184
Characters is part of story. You like story just fine.

>>3158031
>who would do something if my made up and unsupported claim were true
I guess anyone who doesn't buy your made up and unsupported claim

>>3158048
And all these years I thought it was about driving a car. I'm pretty sure one of us is retarded.

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>>3170309
>And all these years I thought it was about driving a car. I'm pretty sure one of us is retarded.

It's about all three. Lots of games are just about driving cars. Outrun provided palm trees and a girlfriend. It wasn't a traditional racing game.

You strip every game down to its bare necessities and you have pic related or at least something similar. Games, simply put, need context in order to stand out among their peers.

>>3170309
You are dumb

Outrun's captivating narrative is what puts it above Hang On

partly

>>3170382
Maybe it's my lack of virginity but I've played countless hours of Outrun and barely noticed the girl friend. Have I been doing it wrong and not fapping to toon girl as the developers originally intended?
Also, I've passed the first level so know that the game isn't about palm trees.
Is this real stuff, like in an interview did the game designer say he always dreamt of driving past palm trees with his girlfriend or is this just what you personally took away from playing?

A story hook is always great; giving some purpose and drive to what you're doing never hurts.

However I openly admit liking some games with mediocre to terrible gameplay just for the writing or plot, though most of these games aren't retro.

>>3170448
>Maybe it's my lack of virginity but I've played countless hours of Outrun and barely noticed the girl friend.
Get a load of Eagle Eye here sharing his insights

>>3170448
>Maybe it's my lack of virginity but I've played countless hours of Outrun and barely noticed the girl friend. Have I been doing it wrong and not fapping to toon girl as the developers originally intended?

Are you completely insane? The proof is right there in the pudding. Nobody said anything about jerking off to her. She's just there, and it's clear she's there for a reason. Otherwise why even include her at all?

The fact is Suzuki wanted to provide an atmosphere that made it different from other games. He did it with Space Harrier and he did it with Shenmue. It's how Yu Suzuki does shit. Guy's even been on record saying he doesn't even play video games that often.

Are you trying to be cool? This post really looks like you're trying to be cool. Not noticing the blonde passenger in a game you've spent countless hours on isn't a result of lost virginity. That's either poor eyesight or mental retardation.

>>3170473
So confirmed the girl is there to distract virgins then?

>>3170476
>the passenger in your car in a driving game is a gurl
>the game is about the gurl
Yeah. I'm the one who's completely insane.
Is your inability to understand what I wrote poor eyesight or mental retardation?

>>3170660
>people who notice fairly obvious things that are directly in front of them are retarded virgins
time will tell if this bold shitposting strategy will pay off

>>3170660
No, but your lack of reading comprehension is directly the result of your own absolute lack of intelligence. It would be better if you stopped trying to read altogether, as you're clearly not up for the task.

>>3170660
>being this stupid in real life

I'm not even gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. You're not baiting. You're a fucking idiot.

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>>3170660
>the passenger in your car in a driving game is a gurl
>the game is about the gurl

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>>3170448
Are you blind?
You might as well have said that you were surprised when you found out Mario was eating mushrooms.

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>>3170448
Maybe it's my lack of virginity but I've played countless hours of sonic and barely noticed the animals. Have I been doing it wrong and not fapping to furry porn as the developers originally intended?
Also, I've passed the first level so know that the game isn't about palm trees.
Is this real stuff, like in an interview did the game designer say he always dreamt of running past palm trees and freeing robots from animals or is this just what you personally took away from playing?

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>>3170448
Maybe it's my lack of virginity but I've played countless hours of Blues Brothers and barely noticed the records. Have I been doing it wrong and not jizzing to jazz as the developers originally intended?
Also, I've passed the first level so know that the game isn't about purple trees.
Is this real stuff, like in an interview did the game designer say he always dreamt of playing blues music with his brother or is this just what you personally took away from playing?

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>>3170448
Maybe it's my lack of exceptional taste but I've played countless hours of Zool and barely noticed the chupa chips. Have I been doing it wrong and not purchasing savory chup chips lollipops as the developers originally intended?
Also, I've passed the first level so know that the game isn't about chupa chips.
Is this real stuff, like in an interview did the game designer say he always dreamt of making millions on the powerful lasting flavor of chupa chips with his fellow satisfied customers or is this just what you personally took away from playing?

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>>3170448
Maybe it's my lack of virginity but I've played countless hours of Zelda and barely noticed the octo rocks. Have I been doing it wrong and not fapping to tentacle porn as the developers originally intended?
Also, I've passed the first level so know that the game isn't about octo rocks.
Is this real stuff, like in an interview did the game designer say he always dreamt of killing octo rocks with his laser sword or is this just what you personally took away from playing?

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>>3170448
Maybe it's my lack of virginity but I've played countless hours of Zork and barely noticed the mail box. Have I been doing it wrong and not checking my mail as the developers originally intended?
Also, I've passed the first level so know that the game isn't about the White House.
Is this real stuff, like in an interview did the game designer say he always dreamt going to the White House and checking the President's mail or is this just what you personally took away from playing?

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>>3170448
Maybe it's my lack of virginity but I've played countless hours of DOOM and barely noticed the demons. Have I been doing it wrong and not RIPPING and TEARING demon scum as the developers originally intended?
Also, I've passed the first level so know that the game isn't about zombiemen.
Is this real stuff, like in an interview did the game designer say he always dreamt of hauling ass through hell and fucking shit up with his BFG or is this just what you personally took away from playing?

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>>3170448
Maybe it's my lack of virginity but I've played countless hours of True Love and barely noticed the sex scenes. Have I been doing it wrong and not fapping to toon girl as the developers originally intended?
Also, I've passed the first level so know that the game isn't about going to school.
Is this real stuff, like in an interview did the game designer say he always dreamt of being in high school and fucking a bunch of chicks or is this just what you personally took away from playing?

>>3170670
>People who can't understand what they read make retarded posts.

>>3170687
Blind means you can't see. Seeing a girl in a game and not sperging out with "OMG a GURL! The gamez is about a gurl" isn't blind it's just being normal. Maybe not normal for someone with an anime pillow like you but normal for normal people.

>>3158031
Nope. I'm not a native english speaker and played atari 2600, sega master system, genesis, super nintendo and a lot of DOS/early windows games without understanding a single word of it.

Damn, I remember even writing down japanese letters just to know wtf would happen.

Most of the games I played weren't story heavy anyway, so the ones that were I just created the story in my mind based on character expressions and/or the scenes.

As I grew older I picked up a dictionary and started translating it to the best of my abilities. It was annoying and time consuming however it sparked an interest in me to learn english.

I did revisit some games that had tons of text just to check their story yet they were like OP stated, just silly, more noticeable in japanese RPGs.

A game that I wanted to get into because of its story was Star Control II, but the gameplay wasn't my cup of tea.

Telltale's Walking Dead I played the first episode solely for the story, but then again gameplay cockblock. Thankfully youtube exists and I could check the impact of different choices.

Playing a game for the story is like watching porn for the same reason.

Whatever, horses for courses.

>>3170448
You're a minmaxer, aren't you? Always focused on winning, beating the game, finding the most optimal and most efficient solution?
You're certainly a memeposter and shitposter. Not because I disagree with your opinion, but because you decided to cover your opinion in insulting sarcastic remarks that dismiss the people you don't understand. As it is, you only looked like an emotionally stunted person and ended up being the laughing stock of a bunch of random people on the internet.

>>3170868
You're the only one who ever mentioned any strong opinion about the girl, anon. All I ever said was that Yu Suzuki saw fit to put a female passenger in the car with the player character. It was just to add to the atmosphere Suzuki wanted to provide, like his insistence to make the car a Ferrari.

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Maybe it's my lack of virginity but I've played countless hours of Star Wars Episode I Racer and barely noticed the neat tricks. Have I been doing it wrong and not try spinning as the developers originally intended?
Also, I've passed the first level so know that the game isn't about star wars.
Is this real stuff, like in an interview did the game designer say he always dreamt of blowing out his engines right at the fucking finish line or is this just what you personally took away from playing?

>>3170868
The only person who gives as much of a shit about the girl as you say is you, anon. Least that's how it looks from where I'm sitting. It's starting to look pretty unhealthy to be honest.

>>3170891
>Playing a game for the story is like watching porn for the same reason.

Wrong. Playing a game for the story is like watching an action movie for the story. Most of the time it's the same ol' shit, but occasionally you get something more.

>>3170868
>The gamez is about a gurl

Literally no one has even so much as implied this. You have the worst reading comprehension I've ever seen.

>>3170868
>>People who can't understand what they read make retarded posts.
Yes, this is the observation everyone has made about you, glad you're caught up.

>>3158048
>Half of Outrun's appeal is the idea of having a hot girlfriend and driving by a bunch of palm trees in a Ferrari.

My sides are in orbit.

>>3158031
>Only enjoy games the way I enjoy them!!! >:(
Are you fucking retarded?

>>3172473
???