Post best retro computers

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Amiga 500, powerful and affordable for the time

when did we start getting old pc shit threads

>>3142819
Retro computers are more fun and interesting. And useful.

Besides, can you get BoP on a SNES?

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>>3142815
>Amiga
>affordable
Was too rich for my blood.
I got power without the price.

>>3142839
>5k for a PC-AT

damn.

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>>3142839
I am a sucker for retro computer ads.

>>3142839
Admittedly, the ST is about as capable as the early Macs spec-wise and it also has color and decent sound.

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>>3142839
>only one word
>rip
>off

>>3142869
I'll never understand how Apple justified charging $2400 for a computer with monochrome graphics and no numeric keypad.

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>>3142839
>720x350**
>with optional monochrome board (non bit-mapped)

The hell did they think this is?

>>3142247
During high school in 2006 when I was poor and enthusiastic, I put together a windows 98se build since parts were stupidly cheap at flea markets and even the most popular games like quake went for a dollar. Can't remember every spec but it basically had a GeForce 6200, a Pentium 3 and 16 megs of ram. As for prebuilts, I think Micron Milleniums were awesome next to Falcon Northwest builds.

>>3142912
how did apple justify charging any price that they have?

>>3142869
It's all about marketing. Commodore and Atari had better machines than the Macs in the early period, but neither company had Apple's ambition, resources, or marketing savvy.

>>3142916
>all those chips
damn son, this is like engineering porn

>>3142912
>early gui
>cheaper than ibm
>includes monitor
>like nowadays Apple was a brand
>decent build quality
>superior to ibm
>easy to use
>a fair amount of computers at the time (maybe not US but in Britain at least) used tapes while the Mac used more expensive floppies
> released in 1983/4- advanced for the time

>>3142916
That ad is a bit cheap anyway because it mentions the IBM AT but acts as if CGA and MDA were the only video cards even though EGA was also out by this time.

>>3145231
>>3142912
Plus the monochrome was a feature not a problem. Let's colour blind people see it the same as the rest of us.

The Apple Mac: the computer for the rest of us

>>3145231
>superior to ibm

>nonstandard ports
>non-upgradable hardware with no expansion slots
>no numeric keypad on the early models
>no ability to add a math coprocessor

Hell fucking no the early Macs were not better than a PC, they were just a toy.

>>3145267
>non upgrade able hardware

Correction- no easy slots to upgrade. A 512k Mac could be upgraded to a 512ke and they even released a hard drive.
>no numeric keypad

To force companies to innovate.


Meanwhile IBM were expensive as fuck and used DOS

>>3145284
>>3143548
Yep, told you this guy was an Apple employee.

>>3145301
Oh no, that guy was a douche. I'm just screwing with IBM-drones

>>3145267
>nonstandard
Only because IBM was the standard.

>>3142247

The Mac had noprograms and the single floppy drive made it excruciating to use. The high res screen's pretty nice, though - only the IBMs could rival it in terms of how much text you could fit onto the screen.

>>3142815

Whenever I see Amiga advocacy, I get flashbacks to Sabrina Online.

>>3145724
>Sabrina Online
If it was still referencing Amigas regularly instead of being the adventures of EWS's Skunk waifu, it might actually be amusing.

>>3143021
Falcon Northwest is still in existence. I had one years ago, and it was light years ahead of the Alienware I had, not just spec wise, but th care in build quality. Hell, you could even have a case painted to automotive specs, 7 coats and a clear coat to protect against scratching.

>>3142815

>A500
>external 3.5" FFD

why?

>>3146836
Piracy of course

>>3146836
Having two floppy drives was practical when hard drives were still an expensive luxury which was the case for most of the 80's

And piracy

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>>3142247
ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY PC MUSTARD RACE

>>3147147
>putting DOS 5.x on an 8086 machine
I shiggidy-diggy.

DOS 3.30 is the best version for 8086 boxes. Also you may want the Compaq version because it's the only pre-DOS 4.x that supports hard disk partitions over 32MB.

>>3145267
Mac OS was fucking decades ahead of DOS.

>>3147158
Why is it wrong to put the latest version of DOS on such a computer?

Do later versions of DOS have higher processor overhead and memory footprint like succesive versions of Windows?

What about DR. DOS?

>>3147147
This is a later-model (1986-87) XT with half-height floppies. No hard disk in this example, but they replaced the original 10MB full-height ST-412 with a half-height ST-225. In addition, 3.5" floppies were now available and the motherboard can accommodate the entire 640k of RAM without an expansion card. The BIOS was updated to accommodate 101 key keyboards and a few other features.

The keyboard here is the XT variant of the Model M (note the absence of LED lights and the SysRq key). Though in fact a standard Model M is dual-mode and will work on an XT with a PS/2 -> AT adapter (later Model Ms made by Lexmark removed XT support).

>>3147175
>Do later versions of DOS have higher processor overhead and memory footprint like successive versions of Windows?

Bingo. DOS 5.x and 6.x are significantly larger than DOS 3.x, however this was not seen as an issue since you could load part of them in extended memory which an XT does not have. Aside from that, many of the added features/utilities in DOS 5.x are of no use on an 8086 machine.

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>>3147182
Thanks for the insight mate. Here, have a PS/2.

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This is an older model XT with the 10MB hard disk replaced by a 20MB unit and a 3.5" floppy.

The 3.5" drives offered on late XTs and ATs are Alps units; they have an adapter included to attach the edge connector on the floppy ribbon cable to the pin header connector on the drive, also the power connector fits a standard-sized Molex plug and not the mini-Molex used on later 1.44MB drives.

>>3142850
>the inside story - a rotating ball

>>3147225
If you have an appropriate set of adapters, a common 1.44MB drive will work in an XT as a 720k drive since the original floppy controller obviously doesn't support high density. AT controllers do support high density, although the v1 and v2 IBM AT BIOS doesn't recognize 1.44MB drives and will mistake them for a 5.25" 1.2MB drive, which can be fixed with two DOS utilities (DRVPARM and DRIVER.SYS). The v3 AT BIOS supports 1.44MB drives natively and does not need DRVPARM.

XTs on the other hand lack a CMOS battery or BIOS setup, so they will always assume 3.5" drives to be 5.25" 360k units and you'll have to use DRVPARM regardless, even if you have the later XT BIOS. If you don't have DOS set up properly, your 3.5" drive will still work fine however you can only access the first 40 tracks of the disk since that's all there is on a 360k disk (purely a limitation of DOS; you can access the entire floppy all day long using INT 13h calls).

>>3147262
There were also high density floppy controllers for XTs; these have a BIOS extender ROM on them which means DRVPARM is not needed. The first IBM AT BIOS (the 1/10/84 version) does not recognize any 3.5" drive; you'll still have to use DRVPARM for those.

Pre-1986 BIOSes also don't recognize 101 key keyboards; although those will work on an earlier XT/AT, you can only use the 83/84 keys they support unless you write your own code to access the extended keys.

ITT: kids hating on Macs bc its cool to

>>3147540
Macs had a decent software library and even a strong game scene in the late 80s-early 90s, but Steve Jobs terminated all of that because he...pretty much hated all video games.

>>3147548
With hindsight I somewhat agree.

He didn't hate games. But he did hate what 3D games required computers to do. He also hated the gaming industry. Not the games themselves. He wanted games to be developed that would run on consumer equipment, without requiring special hardware. He wanted games to evolve alongside CPUs, not GPUs.

Real games needed computers to be expandable. They would need slots! Real games (post 1997) needed third-party (read: not made by Apple) graphics hardware that was more than what average consumers needed to surf the Internet. When was the last time you saw state-of-the-art gaming hardware in a consumer-oriented Mac? Never!
Even the Pro Macs have graphics hardware that is extremely powerful, but not slanted toward gaming.

Steve Jobs didn't like the idea of expensive graphics hardware added for the frivolous (to Steve) pursuit of gaming.

Steve Jobs hated the idea of consumer machines having slots and needing to have top-end hardware in them. That's what pro models were for! But gamers are closer to regular consumers and therefore need high-end equipment. A catch-22 for Steve.

So the scene stagnated because of him. He developed a complex in his own mind, that he would "pander" to no-one; especially game developers.

Then a generation of game developers hated on Steve and Apple for not catering to their needs. Steve hated on them for hating on him and so forth, and the vicious cycle never ended. Even Steve dying hasn't broken the cycle.

>>3147621
>he would "pander" to no-one; especially game developers.
You're right there. That's why Apple charge them for the "privilege" of writing games for their tablets. Seems more like active contempt to me.

>>3147167
b-but muh games

This is a great thread.

>>3147621
It always seemed to me that the Commodore 64 would have been Jobs's perfect computer except for the non-intuitive CLI operating system.

>100% appliance machine with one configuration - just plug it in and turn it on
>no special hardware needed for games, just the built-in chipset.

>>3148042
Sort of but it did have custom ICs designed around gaming which is something that went against his philosophy; he thought computers should be built around off-the-shelf parts, exactly as the Apple II and early Macs were. Just take a CPU and stick a bunch of TTL logic around it.

Jobs was an idiot anyway.

>hated floppy disks to the point where he insisted the iMac not have any and Apple were the first guys to get rid of standard floppy drives on their computers'
>this is the same guy who refused to put a hard disk on the Mac 128 and condemned users to one single sided floppy

>>3148096
You realise that hard drives were quite expensive, yes? That is why they later came out with an external drive.

>>3148096
Why did he hate floppy disks?

>>3148102
Likely because they went against his appliance computer philosophy. He thought diskettes were intimidating to non-geeks.

>>3142839
Didn't even know the ST had a 68000, that's hella cool.

>>3148102
>Why did he hate floppy disks?
Eventually he grew to hate them.
He experienced cloud computing and home broadband in the early 90's and thought we all deserved it one day.

There is a fascinating talk he gave in 1996 I think to that effect.

>>3148356
It was 1997
Watch from about 14 mins in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3MrpLyUOo8#

>>3147621
Which is funny because the Amiga was pretty much the perfect line of computers for consumers judging by what he thinks is perfect, AND the Amigas were expandable as all hell.

>>3148534
If it was expandable: he hated it.

>>3147540
>Custom ROM upgrades (with lightning-quick bootable ROM disks)
Mac ROM-inator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfAKUFF5rtY

>flash-based floppy emulators (that now can emulate up to 2GB hard drives and can boot even on the very first Mac)
FloppyEmu
https://plus.google.com/photos/100890837144428718359/album/6088598145149873009/6088605956494915138
https://plus.google.com/photos/100890837144428718359/album/6088598145149873009/6088598152449807442

>solid state SCSI drive replacements
SCSI2SD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn8FSBQ7mEw

>>3149194
The legends were true!

The one big problem with the toaster Macs that you can't really fix is the CRT. If that thing dies you're fucked since there's no way to attach an external display.

>>3142839
I'd give my left nut for a 520ST. Pretty much just for recording and MIDI with Cubase. Near impossible to find here.

>>3150126
What country/region?

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>best retro computers
Hmm this could be good
>Apple, Atari, IBM
>mfw
When will Americans be banned from discussing computers?

>>3149234
>there's no way to attach an external display

It's very difficult. But not totally impossible.
Here is a write-up about someone doing this in 1988.
http://www.vintagemacworld.com/ugly128.html

There are high-res scans of the article, and it could still be replicated today.

>>3147621
To be honest while he goes over to the extreme side of things, I can't help but think if tempered slightly his view would've been incredibly helpful if more widespread.

As in, it might have encouraged some efficiency in programming to make use of the resources people's systems actually had, instead of just making increasingly bloated programs and saying "fuck it, it runs at 10fps on a consumer machine, so it runs. Minimum system requirements = 'it will load and run at 1fps' "

No JPCs amirite?

>>3150160
Just compare say Psion FS for the Speccy to MS FS 1.0. That'll show the superiority of 16bit processing to the 8 bit processing that was more common in Europe.

>>3150160

Clive pls go

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>>3145267
Go fuck yourself you stupid baby.

Hey mateys. I got a C64 recently with a 1541 floppy drive and a cassette reader.

What do? Should I buy a ton of empty floppy disks and fuck around in basic, or is there some way to load roms into this thing?

>>3149194
Any idea if the scsi that the Mac uses is anything like that in the Macintosh Portable? I have one with a dead hard drive and it's impossible to track down a replacement

>>3158743
>stretched 4:3

Ew.

>>3158857
You can download .tap and .prg programs, and turn them into wav files with software. Then you can record that into a tape.

>>3158872
That's pretty clever. Thanks mate.

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The IIGS could've been so awesome had Apple not deliberately sabotaged it.

>>3150160
I still don't get why the Amiga never took off in North America. I want one so badly yet they're pretty much impossible to find here.

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Behold the mighty Multimedia PC Level 2 minimum requirements.

25 MHz 486SX CPU
4 MB RAM
160 MB hard disk
16-bit color, 640×480 VGA video card
2× (double speed) CD-ROM drive using no more than 40% of CPU to read at 1x, with < 400 ms seek time
Sound card outputting 44 kHz, 16-bit CD quality sound.
Windows 3.0 with Multimedia Extensions, or Windows 3.1.

The only choice for FMV adventure games and Apogee/Epic MegaGames shareware.

And of course, the two titans, DOOM and SimCity 2000.

>>3148359

That's really cool to hear.

Currently teaching digital content management and trying to make this accessible to marketing students.

>>3158884
>Doom on a 25mhz 486sx
yuck

>>3158958
Better than a fucking 386SX. The 386SX effectively ran at half speed on 32-bit code, which Doom used. The only real difference between the DX and SX 486 chips was that the former had inbuilt FPUs, which Doom didn't use.

>>3147621
At least we had QuickDraw 3D lmao

>>3158995
>QuickDraw 3D
Wow. That's a phrase I haven't seen in a long time!
Almost like Quicktime VR!

>>3158983
I've used a 20Mhz 386SX with Windows 3.1 before. It was fine in standard mode, 386 enhanced mode is a slug.

>>3160397
Or even just QuickTime.

>>3158882
Too expensive. Also, shit marketing. Much like consoles, the bad guys eventually won.

>>3158864
Mac Portable HD stuff has been very herd until recently. Now there are solutions.

Consider using various adaptors or making your own cable to try and get one of these working. They are the gold standard of SCSI replacements now.
http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=SCSI2SD

Use with this kind of adaptor:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Macintosh-Portable-34-to-50-pin-SCSI-PCB-Adaptor-/182091516828?hash=item2a65800b9c:g:AHIAAOSwMmBVvzLH

Also, check out this thread.
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/17696-macintosh-portable-34-pin-to-50-pin-scsi-cable/

Alternate solution:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MacPortable-34pin-internal-SCSI-Conversion-KIT-for-CF-PowerMonster-II-NEW-/301933913377?hash=item464ca9e521:g:x8YAAOSwv-NWVbqt

Add that converter to this device:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CF-PowerMonster-II-CF-2-5-SCSI-Converter-Card-New-condition-/301936860958?hash=item464cd6df1e:m:mouWI9cJkLcFDjk_k53BzzQ

http://www.artmix.com/wordpress/?p=1050

Many floppies today have decayed and are no longer able to install their game.
5 1/4" floppies rarely have this problem. Their less densely packed data is more resistant to entropy.

Are double density 3 1/2" floppies more likely to survive to this day than high density 3 1/2" floppies?

>>3160513
Possibly you are correct.
But also consider that 3.5 inch DD floppies are often 10 years older than HD floppies.
Entropy may be slower, but longer time to reach entropy.

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western computers suck

samurai best designs

>>3160543
>very little non-game software even by Atari standards
>shit spec
>terrible arrow keys
>weird slider that controls your 'rensha'

No thanks.

>>3160416
Well yeah, because 386 enhanced mode effectively runs at 10MHz. The 386SX had a 16bit bus, while the DX had a 32bit bus.

>>3158881
Apple 2 forever?

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>>3142247
used to play this shit all the time

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Elder god tier computer coming through

>tfw messing with 3D demos on an SGI workstation at my dad's office as a boy

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I just looked this up right now.

Is there anything cooler than these commodore computers?

>>3162808
Well, it did at least have doom

>>3162898
That looks cute as fuck.

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>>3162919
>it had green text too

>>3160543
>MSX2+
The west still had their say, m8.

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cute

>>3164582
i want one of those so bad

>>3162689
>Apple 2 forever?

First Jobs, then Sculley made sure that that phrase would be forever wrong.

The feels. The feels when I actually touched a Mark Twain IIGS. The SIMM-based memory, the onboard SCSI. The feels when I got to touch BOTH revisions of the prototype Ethernet card that was finished and had drivers that were never released.
I almost cried.
Tony Diaz has all of it.

Luckily the IIGS scene hasn't died. New RAM cards and Ethernet cards are with us. Flash-based hard drive+ floppy replacements are wonderful.
GS/OS even got some updates in the past year. Someone got a copy of the original source code and started bug fixes!

>>3164582
dat floppy drive tho

>>3167374
Clearly a diskette drive.

>>3167378
it's almost the size of the computer itself

>>3167378
m8, that's a drive for 3/12" floppies.

>>3160475
Hey, thanks. I'm glad I might actually have the chance to bring it to life agian

>>3160475
Also, do you figure I should just format a 1GB SD to 40mb, or should I do some more research on how large of a drive the hardware would be able to address without issues?

>>3167486
The versions of MacOS that run on that hardware will allow volume sizes up to 2GB without any modification.

>>3167486

The Macintosh Portable can run MacOS 6.0.4 to 7.5.5.

HFS volume size limits are limited by the computer's operating system. Mac OS 6 and 7 computers can only address HFS volumes as large as 2GB and OS 7.5 bumped the capacity to 4GB.

Early versions of the Classic Mac OS (prior to 7.5.2) have a 2 GB limit per partition, so higher capacity drives need only be partitioned into multiple 2 GB (or smaller) segments. For Macs running System 7.5.2 through 8.0, the limit is 4 GB (specifically 4,063 MB) per partition, and PCI-based Macs can access up to 2 TB partitions.


Short answer is 2GB will always be fine. 4GB is OK if you run 7.5 - 7.5.5.

>>3167863
>>3167748
Oh, alright. Thanks, guys, I don't have any previous experience with old macs, so I don't really know the ins and outs yet

>>3147182
>standard Model M

All hail the mighty Model M keyboard.

I don't have any Model M keyboards left, but I still run a modern USB-based equivalent.
Still made using the same production facility in Kentucky as all Model M's did.
It's been sold to Lexmark, and then to the current Unicomp. The owner is a former worker from the IBM days.

Small ones, big ones, PS/2, USB, Mac-compatible, Windows keys. Even a choice of color.

Here is the standard full-size USB version:
http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI044A

And here is the Mac-oriented on that I use (even has media keys):
http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB4ZPHA

>>3142821
>can you get Bride of Pinbot on a SNES?
No, but you can get Pinbot on AN NES.

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>>3164582
cute!

>>3167963
Why do you hipsters jerk off to model M keyboards? Its shitty for gaming and it make a ton of noise when typing

>>3168841
but muh clickety clack

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>>3168841
lol I bet you use a rubber-dome keyboard right?

>>3168891
Yes I use rubber-dome keyboards. They are cheaper then your overpriced model M and you don’t wake up the entire house when typing

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>>3168938
I don't use a Model-M, nor do I live with my parents.

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I have one of these NEC keyboards laying around but I killed the space bar playing the old DOS version of Double Dragon. Was never my favorite keyboard; the keys are shallow and kind of uncomfortable to type on, also it has buckling springs which make it quite noisy.

>>3168948
>I have one of these NEC keyboards laying around but I killed the space bar playing the old DOS version of Double Dragon

How?

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>>3168959
If you played this thing, you'd understand.

>>3168841
Because force feedback is good for serious typing and actual work. When a key registers an input: you hear the click at the exact same time and you feel the click with your fingers.
It was designed to feel somewhat like the keys on an IBM Selectric typewriter.
Arguably the best electric typewriter ever.

>>3170345
Then how come no one uses the model M for actual work anymore? Just admit it, you have one because you are a pretentious hipster that want to make a statement and too have a showpiece that impresses your friends.

>>3171491
The Model Ms aren't manufactured anymore.

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>>3171538
>Best Retro computer
>MCA expansion slots

>>3171538
This must be rarer than hen's teeth because when I Google Image searched "tandy 5000", I could find nothing but old scanned advertisements.

>>3171573
They're kind of cool although it's hard to find cards for them.

http://www.mcamafia.de/mcapage0/adflist2.htm

Nice list and descriptions of various MCA cards.

>>3171513
Yes they are, by Unicomp

>>3171491
Plenty of people do, but it's more about cost. Modern offices would rather buy a $2 rubber-dome board than a $50 buckling-spring one.

>>3171615
>Yes they are, by Unicomp
Do they have the same bucking spring switches?

>>3171625
Yes

>>3160426
quicktime was relevant for longer than windows media though

>>3171625
>Do they have the same bucking spring switches?
People wouldn't pay those prices unless they did!
Of course they do.
The factory and tooling is the same.
Workplaces would never pay those prices. But individuals can and do.
I've been using Model M's since the late 80's. I've been using Unicomp boards since 2008. They are nearly identical in feel.
The true reason to use a Unicomp over a true Model M is USB native connectivity and modern layouts (media keys, windows keys).

>>3171645
>The true reason to use a Unicomp over a true Model M is USB native connectivity and modern layouts (media keys, windows keys).

They also have a modernized PCB that uses less power than the old Model M.

>>3169772
Pretty good machines. Shame the Spectrum and its shitty specs ruled the roost though.

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The antecedent of the Model M was the IBM 6110344 122-key keyboard which was introduced for IBM terminals in 1984. It was replaced by the 101-key Model M in 1987 for cost reasons.

The 6110344 is signal-compatible with a AT/PS/2 interface although the pin arrangement on the plug is different. It will work on any PC with a simple adapter, but there's no support for LED lights and the keyboard ignores any command to turn them on.

>>3142850
>Some mice have two buttons. Macintosh has one, so it's extremely difficult to push the wrong button.

hah, yeah, sure. That monobutton was the most annoying shit.

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>tfw no Space-cadet

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>>3171669
>122-key keyboard which was introduced for IBM terminals in 1984.
Here is the modern USB equivalent.
http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A

Also, the Model F was also an earlier model that people think was even nicer to type on. But no modern equivalents exist.

>>3171691
>That mono button
My experience:
The mono button was never problem until Win95 was out.
Win95 proved that it was possible to have a USEFUL reason to have a second button. Before that I never knew a good reason to have one.
Contextual menus were/are the killer app for a second mouse button.

Contextual menus appeared in MacOS 8 in 1997. So Apple were two years behind the ball on that one.
In MacOS 8 and 9, contextual menus were activated by holding the Control key (on the keyboard) and clicking with the mouse. Horrible. If you hooked up a USB two-button mouse, the second button did nothing. You needed a third-party piece of software to tell that button to also fake the control button being pressed. Good, but not ideal.

Proper two-button mouse support came with the public beta of MacOS X. In 2000. It would not be until 2001 with the 10.0 release that the general public got proper support. 2002 marked the time when MacOS X (10.2) was the default installation on all new Macs.

We're talking minimum of 2, maximum of 7 years of knowing that two buttons were good, and not having them properly on the Mac. They were bad years.

Apple would not introduce two-button equivalent mouse hardware until 2005. It took ten full years before Apple admitted defeat in the war of the buttons.

>>3172365
Lisp is love
Lisp is life

>>3172606
There's actually several different keyboards referred to as "Model F" which include the IBM XT 83-key keyboard and various models used on IBM terminals and word processers.

>>3145232
IIRC the Hercules was designed to be a cheaper alternative to the MDA which just so happened to also be more capable.

>>3171691
Somehow Apple STILL insists on shipping mice with only one physical button. Don't get me started on those godawful trackpads or the fucking "Mighty Mouse" that guesses which button you want to click based on touch sensors. It's a pain trying to right click with one of those when it thinks you're trying to left click, just because your finger happens to be resting on the left side.

Just thinking about it now, how the fuck are you supposed to play Unreal Tournament with one of those mice, or any other game that requires you to use both buttons at once?

>>3173524
*shakes head*
Actually it was intended to solve one of the primary deficiencies of the MDA which was a lack of bitmap graphics.

And another reason which is tangentially similar to Japanese home computers of the period - the founder of Hercules Computer Technologies was a Thai dude who wanted to be able to do word processing in his native language but the 640x200 CGA graphics were too low resolution to properly display the Thai script.

>>3173535
I fucked up my grammar, I meant to say that the Herc was more capable.

>>3173530
What's wrong with their trackpads?

At least in the Macbook pro, it's probably the best trackpad I've ever used. It actually lets me scroll without wanting to kill myself. I'm a trackpoint man through and through when a mouse isn't available, for what it's worth.

Are their desktop trackpads crap?

>>3173719
>>3173530

Apple's desktop trackpads are exactly the same (excellent). I think that anon is talking about the 'Magic Mouse'. The 'Mighty Mouse' is still available but it's their cheap wired mouse and is pretty awful. The Magic Mouse is actually amazing once you get used to all the gestures, but it's correct to assume you cannot use both buttons at once. If you're gaming on your Mac, you should probably buy a gaming mouse.

>>3173838
>If you're gaming on your Mac, you should probably buy a gaming mouse.

Just like if you're gaming on a PC.
Always buy a gaming mouse. I like how that it's equal now. For this topic at least.

>>3164582
Man Librettos are adorable. I slavaged a late model (~2005) one from work not too long ago. Shame it's nigh unusable specwise.

>>3164582

Reminds me of the Atari STacy

>>3175590
Was it the U100?

I've always wondered what size those are compared to an eeePC type netbook.

>>3172365
>no arrow keys
muh games

>>3172365
>built-in Facebook keys

>>3172365
kek.
Maybe this is how we'll get normies back into using desktops

>>3177820
Laughed way harder than I should have.

>>3177810
>using the arrow keys
>any year
please kill yourself

>>3142839
He said Amiga 500. The Amiga 500 retailed for $699, $100 less than the Atari ST in that poster.

>>3178220
Including a monitor?

>>3178195
>implying they aren't useful for simulation games.
simulate your own demise.

>>3178235
I don't think so, but then neither did the Atari ST. Not that it matters too much, you could just plug the Amiga into a TV.

>>3178243
That ad says that Atari ST includes a monitor, is why I wondered.

>>3178251
It comes with a monochrome monitor. Honestly I'd rather just use a TV. You have to pay $200 for the RGB colour monitor.

>>3142839
How the fuck did they manage to sell it that low, especially if they offer the advertised specs?

>>3179029
a mixture of the competition legitimately being rip-off prices (in terms of component cost vs unit cost.) and the ST not being as impressive as it initially sounds. (although with built-in midi, it sounds good!)

note the amiga it's compared against is the A1000 model, not the A500 budget model (release 2 years later) which was superior to the ST (and as far as i know the A1000) and $600 without a monitor.

>>3179118
That built-in midi must've looked pretty appealing back then, desu, especially at that price point, and that is true that it's comparing what would be considered a "non-budget" model (A1000).

>>3167963

Not a practical option if you live outside the US. The shipping fees cost nearly twice as much as the keyboard itself. All together it's $240 US + VAT on import for one of those.

I can buy a Topre keyboard locally for less.

>>3171491
>Then how come no one uses the model M for actual work anymore?

Cost and availability. For originals you have to find them used, and thrift shopping is not something businesses normally do. If you want to buy new, you have to order them from Unicomp, whose costs are very high (especially S&H) and they are an unreliable supplier for high volumes.

Even widely available mechanical boards are used very sparingly entirely because of cost. Our data entry department bought Cherry G80s, which provide comparable feedback (tactile + audible) and are available in volume. They're more comfortable for the d/e staff to use and they make fewer errors on them.

Other departments still use the dome keyboards that came with their HP workstations because they just wouldn't get the same sort of return on investment buying $100 mechs.

>>3171669
>>3172606

The F was also capacitive.

>>3172695

DOS games frequently used the second or even third mouse button for a contextual menu or perform an alternate action. My Mouseman's second and middle buttons served me very well long before Win95 came along.

>>3177810

What do you think those pointing hands are for?

>>3179164
They may scroll pages, they'd be absolutely useless in a flight simulator unless it's WW1 and you're typing hand signals.
[They also look like "yes/no backwards forwards" instead of "up down left right" but that's not particularly relevant, if layed out WSAD/regular arrow key style they could still be functionally identical.]

>>3179151
You know, you didn't need three paragraphs when the following sentence would have sufficed.

"That shit's not USB, most new PCs don't have a PS/2 connector, and it doesn't have a Windows or multimedia keys on it."

File: Timex-Sinclair-1500.jpg (71KB, 800x541px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 800x541px

>buying a Mac when you could buy 31 of these

>>3179271
>most new PCs don't have a PS/2 connector

Most PCs still have PS/2 and VGA connectors, especially business workstations. "Legacy-free" gaming rigs are a small minority.

>it doesn't have a Windows or multimedia keys on it.

Unicomp makes models that do.

>>3142850
How did it go from showing all the bits and bobs like that to "It just works"?

>>3180110

The Woz stopping being a major influence.

>>3158743
If I could get my hands on one of those symbolics macivory boards, I would at least get a proper monitor.