what went right?

Pretty much everything.

Marketing

the lack of a rewarding social reality.

The anime. Same reason kids moved on from Pokemon to Yu-Gi-Oh.

>>3124565
wrongggg. very few people actually moved onto the other japanese game trends. and who still talks about yu gi oh today?

>>3124565

the anime was shit (at the time, I heard it's gotten better)

literally no one i knew watched the pokemon anime when i was a kid

i agree that the yu-gi-oh anime was a big reason the card game got popular though

>>3124568

It was just what I experienced as a kid. Maybe it was me getting older, and the younger kids stilled played Pokemon. But the anime was definitely a huge part of it, for me and many others. My sister and I dragged our poor parents into seeing the first 3 movies, and I'd love to erase their memories of it Eternal Sunshine style.

>>3124584

That Ancient Mew card was worth dragging your parents to a shit animated movie, though.

The others? I have no excuses.

>>3124462
>everything.

Nothing. It's a mediocre jrpg that was somehow wildly successful and somehow they continue to trick people into buying games that use an identical formula today.

Hard for me to gauge without nostalgia goggles, but with Red & Blue in particular, I'd say:

- Cool monster designs (that later got blanded out)
- Catchy music
- Great (at the time) world design
- Interesting glitches and exploits
- Assuming you were in the right place at the right time (Japan and/or grade school circa '96-'98), a compelling social aspect

It's too bad the Pokemon magic's worn off. I still have a soft spot for ol' Red though.

>>3124573
>the anime was shit

The intro was good though.

>>3124421
Blue. Blue went to the right spot of the picture you posted.

>>3124573
>the anime was shit (at the time, I heard it's gotten better)

Careful not to burn yourself with those hot opinions.

>>3124421
I banged yer mam and whispered in her ear, "Buy me Pokemon lol"

>>3124608
yeah, this. almost all the kids went to the movie just for the Ancient Mew card. We forgot about Pokemon by the time the other movies came out.

>>3124767
>It's a mediocre jrpg
>somehow wildly successful
>somehow they continue to trick people into buying games that use an identical formula today

>nothing went right

The household name Nintendo/Game Freak created *around the fucking world* doesn't just "somehow" happen.

>>3124913
>He thinks it's good because it's popular.

>>3124921
>he thinks its popular by magic and coincidence

>>3124573
And when were you a kid friend? Because when I was a kid everyone watched it. The show was great when it first aired. Also kids at school where fucking hyped and reading the comics in magazines, but I cant remember which magazines, maybe nintendo power

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>>3124909
My parents were forced to watch the second Pokemon movie with me because I couldn't go on my own.

The next time I visit them, I should apologize to their faces for that.

I rewatched and still liked the first season.

>>3124568
This guy who I used to work with who never showered

>>3125220
worst logic

>>3125220
sure, magic and coincidence are the only way things get popular. incredible insight there.

or maybe it has something to do with appealing to a mindless and gullible market, similar to how popular music and hollywood works. some of the worst shit in existence is popular. you're retarded, aren't you?

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>>3125284

NORMIES HAVE NO TASTE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>3124608
Pokemon 2000 was also pretty rad as a kid.

>>3124767
it's a fucking kids game, are you expecting a xenogears type of story?

>>3125632
who said anything about the story?

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Played the VC re-releases of these games, and they are a lot better than I remember. Pretty solid JRPG. Still got outlcassed by future titles due to sheer improvements and additions, but still, for it's time and for the GB, it was pretty impressive.

>>3124767
I love how he provides absolutely zero arguments after this ludicrous claim.

>>3125746
>turn based combat with a total of 4 options
>deep gameplay man

>>3125536
The extended into to that film is some of the best anime ever, without qualification. It's the one thing the Pokemon anime did did that isn't garbage.

>>3125667
I know, right? Pokemon has the best gameplay of basically any TB-JRPG bar none. There's nothing childish about it in this regard.

>>3126251
>Pokemon has the best gameplay of basically any TB-JRPG bar none.
I always thought it was extremely slow and tedious with very little depth and few options. I've completed 3 different pokemon generations and none of them were interesting.or challenging. I tried replaying Red recently and it was even more boring than i remember.

>>3124832
>that later got blanded out
I disagree, for every bad design, there's roughly 10 good ones.

>>3126234
>4 options
For attacks? Sure, but in a turn you can opt to use an array of items, switch pokémon, or escape.

I'd say it's comparable to Final Fantasy in terms of options, just with Attack, Defense, Skill and Magic consolidated into 4 slots, where your options are intentionally limited for the sake of balance and gameplay, each pokémon has a different set of attacks and as they grow, you choose which to keep and to replace.

I don't see how that's a point against it.

>>3126234
>>3126376
It's because it's designed to LOOK and FEEL simple, since it's made for kids, while actually having lots of depth, so people who grew up with older gens and still play can still play it at their level.

It's just that it hides most numeric stuff, and you need to resort to guides and obsesive note taking to actually be strategic.

With they all had an "Advance" mode where all the relevant information is visible.

I always felt it was a very good entrylevel sort of game, Babby's First RPG, it's easy for kids to learn and they can apply that knowledge to other games, kind of like Mystic Quest but financially successful.

Also it's fun and full of cute things.

>>3126381
*Wish

>>3125284
>why isn't the rpg series i love as popular as pokemon :(

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>>3125284
Well said fellow connoisseur

>>3126376
>I'd say it's comparable to Final Fantasy in terms of options, just with Attack, Defense, Skill and Magic consolidated into 4 slots, where your options are intentionally limited for the sake of balance and gameplay, each pokémon has a different set of attacks and as they grow, you choose which to keep and to replace.
Final Fantasy has very little depth also, but pokemon definitely has less.

>>3126381
>be strategic
my strategy is to use my beginner pokemon to one shot everything so that i don't have to use any other pokemon.

great game design.

>>3126412
which RPG series would that be?

>>3126413
>Justin Beiber is good because he's popular
my sides

>>3126460
That's you own fault, faggot.

>>3126480
It's my fault that the game is piss easy and doesn't require anything resembling a thought process to complete?

>>3126497
>mash one button in a fighter
This is piss easy and doesn't require skill!

>>3126503
except the only person delusional enough to think you can beat a fighting game by mashing one button is you.

>>3126506
The AI in the power rangers fighting game can be effortlessly cheesed with high kicks

>>3126512
Then it's a shitty fighting game, just like how pokemon is a shitty RPG.

>>3126506
And you can't one shot every pokemon with the same pokemon through the whole game

>>3126257
You haven't even begun to dig into the metagame of breeding and competitive play

off with you swine

>>3126525
I have friends who are into that shit and it looks like the most boring thing in the universe. You never hear people whining about RNG at a fighting game tourney, but you definitely hear a lot of that in competitive pokemon.

I'm sure competitive pokemon requires a little more thinking than single player pokemon, but it's still a shit tier competitive game.

>>3126469
Star Wars is good and is popular, as is James Bond.

You also have to consider lasting appeal, Bieber is already on his way out, Pokémon just had a 20 year anniversary.

The fact that some things popular are bad, doesn't mean all things popular is bad, some things are popular for good reasons.

Also, using Bieber as an argument, really? Are you 12? It's like I'm reading a YouTube comment here.

>>3126567
>Star Wars is good and is popular, as is James Bond.
My argument wasn't that good things can't be popular. My argument was that something being popular doesn't make it good.

>>3126460
Which mainly works in the singleplayer campaigns, and even then you'll hit barriers.

Just because the base adventure is designed to be easy going doesn't mean that the games haven't had challenges for you, Crystal added a tower of challenging battles, and by Gen 3, they would all feature a special area unlocked after the Elite 4, where you bring a limited number of pokémon (no legendaries), and you'll fight at either lv50 or lv100 (over 50 gets nerfed to 50 for these battles, under 100 get's a token "boost" that won't actually help much at all).
You stroll in there and think you can just mash A, you'll be in for a surprise, the Battle Front will rape you if you don't have any plan or strategy.

>>3126497
It's for fucking kids, do you loudly complain at children's programming for not challenging you? Again, do the Battle Front.

>>3126506
And you can't win every encounter with just one pokémon and just one attack.

>>3126534
>but you definitely hear a lot of that in competitive pokemon
Because it's designed for fun and novelty first.

Competitive Pokémon involves some inrtrinsic autism, generally, you'll go by Smogon rules.
It's a bit like Smash Tourneyfags except not quite as retarded.

The game is inherenty unfair for competitive purposes.

>>3124573
disagree, I was in 4th grade when poke'crack rolled through. I thought the show and the occasional VHS was alright.
But even kids who lived in a double wide with abusive parents, who probably are doing heroin right now, liked Pokemon back then...
But most people like getting cought up in the collecting "rare" shit meme. especially if your a dumbass kid.

>>3126594
>Because it's designed for fun and novelty first.
>RNG is fun
ok

>It's a bit like Smash Tourneyfags except not quite as retarded.
Melee has a higher skill ceiling than every pokemon game combined multiplied by 1000. How you gonna compare a turn based JRPG to a fighter game that requires frame perfect execution and insane movement tech? I am impressed by and respect a good Melee player. I don't think being good at competitive pokemon is impressive whatsoever.

>>3126615
Both are pretty childishly bad desu, practice a real sport you nerd.

>>3126620
>practice a real sport
I'm not interested in sports.

>you nerd.
you know what board you're posting on right?

>>3126615
>>3126620
>>3126621

It's fucking hilarious to see a Smash fag shit on Pokemon.

Just utterly fucking ridiculous. Both Competitive Pokemon and Smash Bros. is fucking stupid.

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>>3126636
That's why I play the superior game, competitive Super Bomberman 2.

>>3126636
I don't play smash, but it really comes down to this: melee has an impressively high skill ceiling, and pokemon doesn't. It doesn't matter how stupid you think Melee is, it requires a huge amount of hard work and skill to do well. This is very simple to understand.

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>>3126658
Goddamnit it son.

>>3126661
>doesn't understand why something with a high skill ceiling is more impressive than something with a low skill ceiling.
lmao.

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>>3126658
Smash isn't a competitive fighter.

Smash is a party game.

Smash-fags literally took every fun aspect out of Smash, which could equalize the playing field with items and fun stages that do wild things, and devolved it into

>No Items
>Final Destination/Battlefield Only
>No "low tier" characters, only characters capable of Wave-Dashing.

That's not fun. That's trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

>>3126672
>Smash isn't a competitive fighter.
>Smash is a party game.
What does that have to do with anything? Plenty of competitive activities begin as non-competitive activities.

>but muh developer intentions
fuck off, nobody cares

>>3126672
You're probably the same type of faggot who tells speedrunners to slow down so they can play the game "properly."

>>3126534
you really need to get into it to understand, especially when you already perceive it negatively because of its relation to your friends. not saying you need to play competitive pokemon but since youre interested enough to stay in a thread about a thing you dont even like id suggest looking into it with an open mind.

Melee isn't competitive, it isn't even a fighting game. In fact it is not even retro.

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>>3124573
>the anime was shit (at the time, I heard it's gotten better)
in what fucking universe?

>>3124421
COLLECTING.

>>3126695
>Melee isn't competitive
It is if people are doing it competitively. That's how it works.

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>>3126658
>melee has an impressively high skill ceiling
>it requires a huge amount of hard work and skill to do well

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>>3126701
Goddamnit it it it son.

>>3126704
Wow great argument, you really proved me wrong there.

>>3126708
>Soccer isn't even competitive, it started as some kids kicking a ball around, the competitive community just added all these rules and goalpoasts and shit to take all the fun out of it.

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>>3126709
>he can't tell the difference when someone is arguing with him and when someone is laughing at him

>>3126717
>admits he has no argument.
Yeah, that's what I thought.

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>>3126719
wasnt even that guy you were responding to but your post was just laughable and cringeworthy

>>3126721
>your post was just laughable and cringeworthy
No, my post was apt and concise. But sure, keep acting like a condescenting faggot without making any actual points, it makes you look like a really insightful person.

>>3126690
Speedrunning is cool to see once or twice, but the community is so fucking depressing.

They're all such debbie downers. Literally every stream is like "Glad I finished the run but the time isn't good", "FUCKING RNG" "I gotta reset because I won't get a good time here"

It's so fucking depressing. I think speedrunning is stupid not because going fast is impressive, but a lot of the time the people aren't even really good at the game. If they fuck up a quick kill or one of their strategies they literally reset because they can't adapt because they actually aren't that good or knowledgeable about the game. It means that most speedrunners are literally just grinding attempt after attempt after attempt until they get a "good" time. I don't personally see how that's any fun.

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>>3126728

>>3126731
>It's so fucking depressing. I think speedrunning is stupid not because going fast is impressive, but a lot of the time the people aren't even really good at the game. If they fuck up a quick kill or one of their strategies they literally reset because they can't adapt because they actually aren't that good or knowledgeable about the game. It means that most speedrunners are literally just grinding attempt after attempt after attempt until they get a "good" time. I don't personally see how that's any fun.
>being this ignorant about how speedrunning works

>>3126737
If you're going to "disprove" my assertion, then the onus is on you.

Green texting isn't a good counter argument.

>>3126741
>a lot of the time the people aren't even really good at the game. If they fuck up a quick kill or one of their strategies they literally reset because they can't adapt because they actually aren't that good or knowledgeable about the game.
Making a mistake doesn't mean they're not good at the game. Resets happen when they can no longer achieve a personal best. They could still do a no-reset run on a whim and beat the game faster than the vast majority of people who have ever played it.

You're also ignoring the vast amount of practice and research that occurs outside of the runs themselves.

>>3126751

I've watched my fair share of speedruns (not even counting the stupid marathons) and I still believe a lot of speedrunners are generally not good at the game despite putting a lot of time and effort into it because they don't practice "the game" they practice "strats" there are some people who are both good at the game and speedrun, but a lot of people who speedrun are entirely reliant on these strategies without really having a core understanding of the game.

I've seen a lot of people who just start a new game without even trying to play it themselves, and only use the routes that people have pre-established. They literally speedrun before evne playing the game.

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Simple: it was an adventure you shared with your friends. Everyone was expereincing more or less the same thing, however everyone also had their own game. It was exciting to both be cooperative and in competition with your buddies, discussing new unknown pokemon that you caught, trading them, showing off teams, etc.

Source: a 7th grader at the time. I preordered this shit because my friend was telling me about how big it was in Japan.

Btw, I watched the show a bit, but even then I thought it was gay. I was pissed when my Pikachu's thundershock didn't level the fucking forest, as per the anime.

>>3126761
>I still believe a lot of speedrunners are generally not good at the game despite putting a lot of time and effort into it because they don't practice "the game" they practice "strats" there are some people who are both good at the game and speedrun, but a lot of people who speedrun are entirely reliant on these strategies without really having a core understanding of the game.
Here you're describing a bad speedrunner. Good speedrunners have a good general knowledge of their game and are passionate about their game in and outside of the context of speedrunning. A good speedrunner is able to do everything their game allows them to do, even if it's not a part of the run itself. People like this also tend to be much more consistent in runs because they're very knowledgeable about what to do if something goes wrong.

But everyone makes mistakes. Speedrunning is extremely punishing sometimes, and it often doesn't matter how good you are because the tricks can be too difficult for any human to pull off consistently.

>>3126775
Yeah, and I would make the assertion that most speedrunners are not very good.

I think there are guys that are genuinely good (like PJ) but they also tend to on average play more difficult games.

>most speedrunners are not very good.
no argument there. most people who play the guitar are terrible guitar players too. in fact, most people, in general, are shit at their hobbies. there's always an upper echelon of skill followed by an ocean of mediocrity in its wake.

The almost limitless possibilities.

How many different teams can you have?

And that's without even mentioning all the possibilities within the range of a single Pokémon, considering the many attacks they can learn via TM and such.

Even catching some of them was a challenge.

There was basically no end to the game, even when I had 151 Pokémon, I still kept playing. yes, I got Mew from the cloning glitch I went to the end of the clock (255hours and 55 mins) in both blue and yellow, and I played a lot even afterwards. The game was almost endless.

I always liked going around searching for the pokemon I liked. I never bothered to catch them all tho.

>>3126615
>muh RNG boogeyman
Back in my day, people didn't give a shit about RNG unless it was unreasonably unfair, it's literally a zero sum argument as far as I'm concerned. Dice didn't come down the way you wanted them to? Too fucking bad, try again or get better, get stronger. If a bit of RNG bothers you, you have no business playing any RPGs.

>>3126615
>Melee has a higher skill ceiling than every pokemon game combined multiplied by 1000.
Wew lad, Smash has the skill ceiling of buttonmashing SF2 on easy.

>>3126990
>Back in my day, people didn't give a shit about RNG unless it was unreasonably unfair, it's literally a zero sum argument as far as I'm concerned. Dice didn't come down the way you wanted them to? Too fucking bad, try again or get better, get stronger. If a bit of RNG bothers you, you have no business playing any RPGs.
I don't have a problem with RNG in the context of a single player game, but it's an objectively shitty mechanic in any sort of competitive context.

>Wew lad, Smash has the skill ceiling of buttonmashing SF2 on easy.
This isn't true, as evidenced by the 10's of thousands of hours it takes to even hit the top 100 in Melee. I don't know about other smash games, but saying melee doesn't have an extremely high skill ceiling is pants on head retarded.

>>3126658
>it requires a huge amount of hard work and skill to do well
No it doesn't.

>>3126680
>defending FINAL DESTINATION
Tourneyfags objectively play the game wrong.

>>3126701
Yes but it's embarrassingly bad, Smogon might be heavy duty autism but it doesn't prevent you from getting creative, Competitive Smash is a desperate attempt at eliminating and evening out any possible variables because "MUH BALANCE"

>>3127005
>No it doesn't.
Yes it does.
>Tourneyfags objectively play the game wrong.
>Competitive Smash is a desperate attempt at eliminating and evening out any possible variables because "MUH BALANCE"
nobody gives a fuck. the community agrees upon standardized rules for competition. this is totally reasonable and it's silly to think that anyone in their right mind would have a problem with it.

>>3126716
>Smash is comparable to soccer
In your dreams, fatass.

>>3127014
>I don't see a problem with this.
You're the kid who straightened out his slinky and sorted his Lego by color, ain't that right?
The absence of balance in Smash is VERY deliberate.

>>3127001
>but it's an objectively shitty mechanic in any sort of competitive context
That's your problem for putting a game like that in a competitive context.

I read something on the internet somewhere, dunno where it is now.
But it said it had a lot to do with peer pressure and kids wanting to fit in.

Pokemon got the ball rolling with the advertising and anime helping sales. It got popular with kids because kids could identify with their own favorite pokemon. The article I remember reading basically said that it let kids fit in with their group but also promoted individuality.

We're seeing the same things with Skylanders nowadays. I used to volunteer at a camp with K-2 graders and they were obsessed with it. Same with Crazy Bones and these "shop kins" things the girls collect.

Anyway, that seems like it would make sense. Also the games were good.

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Post your favorite retro pokémon.
Aren't these the cutest ghosts?

>>3126764
this captures pokemon really well. when i was around 10, me, my brother and a friend used to sit up all night trading, training, battling and discussing rumors we had heard about how to catch certain legendaries and whatnot. back then we didnt have internet, so everyone who played pokemon, even people in class i didnt really know well otherwise, would gather and share information about the game we had figured out, like how a certain item worked or where a pokemon could be caught, and when i visited my mom at work (they had internet) id print out walkthroughs and tips and whatever and pass them around. pokemon really was a shared adventure, and while ive long since grown out of it i think its something every kid should get the chance to experience.

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>>3126525
No metagame is good metagame.

>>3124421
Millions in marketing

>>3128649
And a working basic formula.

>>3128247
You pointed out the one thing that makes the experience difficult to reproduce: the relative lack of internet information at the time. Now if you want to learn something you just ask Google rather than your friends. The meat-space social aspect really was what arguably elevated a mediocre game into a phenomenon.

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>>3126615
>>3127001
>RNG ... objectively shitty mechanic in any sort of competitive context.

That's, just, like, your, opinion, man. And a really stupid one at that. I mean, what do you think about games like Poker?

Anyway, the probabilistic nature of RPGs is supposed to simulate the complex nature of the actual world. When you have two things of comparable strength competing against each other, the outcome is not always certain whether every intended action each makes will succeed. I think it makes things more interesting because unexpected situations happen in which you need to have a flexible strategy, which can give games more depth. If I rely on my 20% chance-to-kill desperation attack every time, my strategy wouldn't be very good.

For example, in Pokemon if Fissure hit every time the game would be broken. You could then argue that Fissure shouldn't exist, but then you're just picking and choosing at that point. What you say some people in competition want is not Pokemon, but something with different rules and a Pokemon wallpaper.

Personally what would irks me isn't randomness in outcomes, but randomness in how rules are applied. This isn't a problem in video games unless there is a bug, but modern sports still haven't phased out the ref completely.

Beedrill
Beedrill went right
>Twinneedle and the game a pretty much over
>Bug is super effective against Poison, Bug, Grass, Psychic and Ghost
>clearing Erica's, Sabrina's and Koga's Gyms without getting hit by using Pin Missile on the on weak enemies and Twinneedle on the tougher enemies
>Agatha in the Elite 4 is a bitch against Beedrill's might

Great marketing combined with the social aspect helped a lot but there's more to it.

- The magical-furry-animals-autism-appeal factor, it shares this trait with the likes of My Little Pony, Sonic the Hedgehog, Undertale, etc...

- And the most important, it establishes an appealing fantasy universe that goes way beyond the story of Red itself where you can insert yourself and imagine your own adventure in that same world, just like with Lord of the Rings "I would be an Elf ranger patroling the forest Mirkwood!", Harry Potter "I'd be a Ravenclaw and would become and transfigurations teacher!", Avatar "I would like to be an Earthbender and live in Ba Sing Se!", etc.
"I'd become a Poison type gym leader and my team would be ____"...

>>3128962
>Great marketing combined with the social aspect helped a lot but there's more to it.

>- The magical-furry-animals-autism-appeal factor, it shares this trait with the likes of My Little Pony, Sonic the Hedgehog, Undertale, etc...
This pretty much

Here in Russia only a minuscule minority of kids actually played any of the games because gameboys were rare and unpopular. Yet the craze was just as strong as elsewhere, literally everyone watched the anime, had cards, stickers, posters, magazines etc. without even knowing the games existed, moms went crazy about pokemon causing seizures and satanic worship and so on

Strong marketing plus appealing designs and collect-them-all mentality did the trick

>>3128962
>magical-furry-animals-autism-appeal factor
I never had words for what I knew to be true until now.

being an addicting and revolutionary new genre (at least to the west), being on the gameboy, and marketing.

I'm not going to be the millionth person to call Red and Blue shit, but the games' actual quality had nothing to do with their success. Any other game could do as well as Red and Blue if they could ride the same wave Red and Blue had.

>>3128984
Yeah it was the minecraft of the 90s.

>>3128962
>The magical-furry-animals-autism-appeal factor
No, it was just as liked by people who are normal in the head.

>>3124608
The movie theater in my town ran out. I literally wrote a letter to the movie theater asking for one. I was naive and young

>>3126372
I'm hardly a genwunner, I like a lot of the newer Pokemon designs even if the new games don't grab me the same way. I guess what I meant was that I miss the rougher watercolour character art, and the freaky looking sprites. They actually looked like, y'know, monsters. Then everything got softened up for the anime and hasn't recovered since.

>>3124421
what went right?

>gateway drug jrpg
>progression mechanic
>rewards inviting u to progress more
>the "someday you will be as strong as me" inspirational vibe
>every location having different monsters to catch
>gym leaders with type builds forcing you to understand counters and teaching you how strong a type really can be
>you get to be the very best, Like no one ever was
>To catch them is the real test, To train them is your cause.

>>3128984
>>3128990
I'm not sure if it's close analogy. Pokemon was a real breath of fresh air. Older Gameboy games were all kind of simple action/platformer/racing titles while Red and Blue were pretty groundbreaking, with working RPG mechanic and content that barely fit on the cartridge, forcing poor old Gameboy to perform on peak of its technical abilities. Argument about any other game doing equally well does not hold water, as there was no equal game back then. Meanwhile, when Minecraft came out, concept of sandbox games, or even block building sandbox games, was already old and known. Minecraft became popular by a blind luck as it had worthy competitors in those times, and even in the past.

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>>3130247
I actually partially agree with you, older pokémon certainly had a very rustic charm to it that you just don't see today.

Though I also like the modern stuff, like, the pokégirls are cuter than ever.

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