Best FF combat system?

And it's sad that they've never gotten it right since. FFX-2's combat system was active, completely broke the feeling of strategy from the first game.

It's kind of sad that a completely generic system is considered the best in the franchise just because it finally did away with extraneous ATB shit.

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>>3116181

>generic

If you say so it must be true. Honestly the way FFX handles it is probably my favorite interpretation of the traditional turned based system, though the game has other flaws.

Anyway OP, post this thread on /v/. You fucks are whiny fags that are shitting,up another board for the sake of it. If you have a problem e celeb and news threads then maybe you should do something about it other than bringing that shit here. Its not going to solve your problem, bringing 6th gen here that is.

>>3116147
This was my favorite too. Though I don't mind ATB. Are there any other games with similar battle system?
It was the closest FF got to chess.

>>3116224
Radiant Historia in the DS.

>>3116147
I miss that game

>>3116197
I don't really see what makes it different from Dragon Quest or most one-off JRPGs except the ability to change characters mid battle.

Most turn based rpgs determine turn order by a speed stat, showing a visual representation of who's going next doesn't change that much.

>>3116147
isn't it sort of an appropriation of Grandia's battle system tho

though I want to say there's another game that did it first, more similarly

>>3116147
It's a pretty decent battle system mechanically speaking but is wasted on that game and it's shit design. The random encounters are balanced so that everything dies in a single hit unless you are severly underlevelled or using the wrong character, and there is always one right character to use for each monster.
The battle system only gets to in a handful of boss fights.

Shit game.

>>3116224
>Though I don't mind ATB. Are there any other games with similar battle system?
That one lord of the rings game blatantly copied it.

ATB is better. Only if ATB is on active and speed is at maximum

>>3116340

It helps you plan out turns FAR in advance. Its a lot more meaningful than you give it credit for

Ia it generic? I mean, yeah I can concede its pretty much a classic turned based JRPG. All the minute differences add up to something I really like and Id love to see it again.

Mega Man X command mission was a bit similar, as was LOTR the Third Age, but not quite.

>>3116428
Yeah, nah. Setting ATB speed to maximum actually slows the game down because enemy ATB continues to build during attack animations. That means enemies, with LONG attack animations, go several times in a row while you're sitting there bored out of your skull.
The sad truth is that the games fall to pieces when you change speed from normal.

>>3116453
nice meme
do you have any actual opinion?

>>3116460
Nice meme meme. That was an accurate discription of Playstation era FF gameplay.

The problem with ATB is that it doesn't really work like it's supposed to in any way, mostly because the game's balance is garbage and the difficulty is non-existent, there's simply too much advantage on the player's side to make it worthwhile. You can't make a boring and easy battle system more "hectic" by showing the player characters' speed calculations in real time, and making each actor in the field act independently from standard turn acting is worthless when the enemies are a total joke that pose no threat whatsoever. Besides, a turn based RPG shouldn't be in "real time", it's a game genre that should be based on choices, it's like making a roguelike but with real time combat, it simply doesn't work unless you tune down the difficulty because anything else would make it extremely unfair on a basic design level.

But to return to ATB...

If you use it at normal speed not only you have to wait for the bar to fill up, but you also have to wait for the animations to finish, though that isn't a real problem in the SNES games, but still, the speed is abysmal to the point that you'd want to cast Haste just to get it over quickly.

If you turn the speed up>>3116453 happens and in the PS games that becomes extremely painful when you have to wade through slow, unending battle animations in each battle, heaven forbid if you actually want to use summons.

If you turn the wait option on like in FFVIII while you're browsing menus like magic or item menus you're basically making the whole system pointless since it's only active while you're not doing anything but browsing in the main menu and watching animations and at that point you might just want to play a normal turn based game.

So yeah, instead of coming up with this half baked garbage they should have just focused on making a better base combat system and balance, at least FF would be fun to play that way.

>>3116417
Wild Arms 4 and Wild Arms 5 use a very similar system to FFX's, except:

a. it's actually done in an interesting way with well designed challenges, where you're not assumed to be 10 years old, incapable of skillfully applying any of the mechanics
b. there is an additional, added element of tactical positioning that's actually pretty swag

that being said I still found them too easy, though WILD ARMS V: THE VTH VANGUARD is an awesome name for a game and I'm always tempted to pronounce it incorrectly because it's hilarious

>>3116554
yeah, but what about a game like Chrono Cross where the ATB system doesn't even really belong there and is shoehorned in when there's no balance for it and none of the battles are designed for it

dead

>>3116621
>but what about a game like Chrono Cross where the ATB system doesn't even really belong there
I don't know what you're talking about, does the ATB system only belong to FF for you? And CC had the very same problem with it as FF, an unbalanced battle system with no proper challenge or difficulty made even worse by the Field system.
>there's no balance for it and none of the battles are designed for it
I'd argue that the ATB itself isn't designed for a turn based system but that's just my opinion.

The problem is that ATB just can't function in menu based games unless you simplify the system and make it essential but solid and challenging, a good non retro example would be Last Ranker, and though that game still suffers from almost non existent difficulty, I think it was really well designed for an ATB system, but it uses a fairly uncommon kind of battle design, shame it kinda bombed and never came out of japan.

>>3116683
literally Chrono Cross was designed with it's own unique battle system, and the ATB system was forced upon it after the fact just because it was in the first game

People seem uncomfortable admitting it openly and directly, but the consensus is evident: ATB is retarded.

All it does in practice is force the devs to dumb down the combat because now the player doesn't have time to plan their moves, so HIT ICE ENEMY WITH FIRE becomes the most advanced strategy available.

It reduces the strategic element of turn based combat no matter how it's implemented.

>>3116761
Someone didn't play FF4 on anything other than easy mode.

A good turn order system doesn't mean shit when the playable characters, enemies and bosses are shit.

I'll never understand the love for X, it's nearly as bad as Xenosaga Ep I, maybe worse.

>>3116352
Pretty much. Grandia 2 shits all over X and 3 blows it the fuck out in gameplay while having a fucking terrible story.

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>>3116224
>closest FF got to chess
That would be Final Fantasy Tactics, friendo

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Never played FFX, but OP's description sound similar to pic related, which was one of my favorite RPG systems.

>>3116147
Not retro, never will be retro. Sage, hidden, reported..