SM64

>>3005430

Mario 64 destroyed platforming games by shifting them from action games to colectathons.

2D Platformers:
>action games
>stage you complete once
>Point A to B

Mario 64:
>Short amount of stages you revisit over and over again
>Hub world
>Focus shifts to finding hidden items and collecting

I can't wait to visit the same level for the 10th time and see if there's anything different.

The best stages were the Bowser stages, as they kept the same feel as the original Mario game stage designs. The whole game should have been that. Mario 64 apparently used that design due to limitations, but later 3D platformers and Mario games kept it. This doomed the genre as people got bored of this fairly quickly. 3D platformers got the reputation of being dull, slow, repetitive games.

>>3005465
There is very little collecting in Mario 64. You mostly go from Point A (starting point) to Point B (Power Star).

The 3D platformer = collectathon strawman is really getting tiresome.

>>3005465
>SM64 not an action game.

Did you watch the video in the OP?

>>3005465
>Mario 64 destroyed platforming games
But platforming games were already destroyed around the fourth gen when the bland Sonic cash-ins came by.

>3D platformers got the reputation of being dull, slow, repetitive games.
What?

>>3005465
I agree. Everyone praises this game as a masterpiece, but having to repeat stages over and over is just lame.

>>3005430
>movement depth
It's so deep it goes into parallel dimensions

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>>3005465
There was a whole lot more collecting in Yoshi's Island than there was in Super Mario 64 for 100% completion.

Yoshi's Island has 48 stages. In each, you need to collect:

-30 stars
-20 red coins
-5 flowers

Super Mario 64 has 15 stages. In each you need to collect:

-100 normal coins
-8 red coins (each of these is 2 yellow coins)

For the sake of argument I am considering collecting a power star equal to completing a stage in Yoshi's Island.

>>3005509
The stages give you incredible freedom, especially when combined with the freedom in movement.

Moving to the right and jumping has no depth to it, and is by far more repetitive than the insane amount of options you are given in Super Mario 64.

Watch the video in the OP.

They focused so much on getting Mario to control right they forgot to actually make the game fun to play.

>>3005526
It is fun to play if you're not terrible at video games, which I'll admit, many people are.

>>3005512
>There was a whole lot more collecting in Yoshi's Island than there was in Super Mario 64 for 100% completion.

All optional. You go to the end of the stage and you've beaten it.

>>3005535

No thim, but in that case the coin collecting on SM64 is also optional, you don't need every single star to finish the game.

>>3005535
You can avoid all of the Red Coin and Yellow Coin power stars and still beat Final Bowser.

So it's optional too.

>>3005535
>for 100% completion.

>>3005535
The post says "for 100% completion."

But since you've now shifted the goalpost, you don't need to collect any coins in SM64 to beat the game.

>>3005465
>The best stages were the Bowser stages
Yet my favorite stages, from memory, were the first, Dire Dire Docks, and the Haunted House. When you're in 3D you want to explore, not jump obstacles.

The controls/physics still hasn't been surpassed by any game. It's a shame that the Mario series seems to be going backward when it comes to the controls.

>>3005590
Yeah, Galaxy always felt floaty and robotic to me. Sm64 had such a great feeling of momentum and weight. Super Mario Sunshine was kind of somewhere between the two.

>>3005590
>>3005591
I bought Galaxy 2 without having played the first and Jesus Christ, is this what Mario/modern gaming has become?
>Fucking long-ass intros that try to be like a big Hollywood movie
>sitting, waiting, listening to characters talk
>IN FUCKING MARIO
>Finally get to some levels
>Their so small and simple it fucking hurts
Fucking dropped and returned.

>>3005609
Galaxy 2 was actually somewhat of an improvement over Galaxy 1 regarding pointless storyline and cutscenes. But I still agree with you completely.

>>3005616
God, I'd hate to see what Galaxy 1 was like, then.

>>3005609
>what Mario/modern gaming has become?
>Their so small and simple it fucking hurts
Because classic Mario was always know for its complex and long ass levels. If anything, Galaxy 2 and the 3D series finally got 3D Mario right.

>>3005616
>>3005624
I have to disagree with that anon, I thought Galaxy 2 was worse when it came to storyline/cutscenes/characters. Nobody can be a more annoying character than that purple thing in Galaxy 2.

>>3005625
The stages in Super Mario 64 are extremely complex when you consider how much freedom you are given in the form of movement to complete it in so many different ways.

In Galaxy 1 and 2 you are forced to go in one or two direction and that's it. No room for creativity or sick ass parkour.

>>3005625
The first stage in Mario Galaxy 2 is a tiny-ass sphere where you walk around and kill a pirhanna flower or some shit.

The first stage in Mario is a decent-length run through basic obstacles that sets you up for the rest of the game without pretending you're a baby.

>>3005636
>The stages in Super Mario 64 are extremely complex when you consider how much freedom you are given in the form of movement to complete it in so many different ways.
Exactly. Mario shouldn't play like that. Ever.

>>3005639
>Mario shouldn't play like that. Ever.
See the video in the OP and tell me why again exactly this is a bad thing.

>>3005639
Yeah, hundreds of hours of replay value totally sucks, gimme that 5-10 hour 1 time $60 Galaxy experience any day.

>>3005590
Yup. Mario 64's physics are magical. I don't even need to play the levels, I can just have fun running and jumping around outside the castle.

Mario has such a feeling of speed and weight to him that the later 3D Marios don't replicate.

>>3005639
>Franchises should never shake up their formula to change with the medium and stay fresh and exciting

Anyone else dislike how Mario turned into a "Metroidvania" type game when he went 3D and miss the arcade-style purely platforming of the 2D games? I kinda wish they'd made every stage play like a Bowser level like Miyamoto had originally wanted to do for SM64.

>>3005639
But mario 64 is still good for that reason, there's no other 3-D platformer from that era where you can do all the crazy shit you can do in mario 64.

>>3005664
There's nothing stopping you from playing 3D world.

>>3005669
>there's no other 3-D platformer from that era where you can do all the crazy shit you can do in mario 64.
or from any era, to be completely honest. even games that have tried the parkour movement shtick like Mirror's Edge and Assassin's Creed feel magnetic, automated and contrived.

No video game has movement that feels as skilled and organic as SM64. No other game even comes close.

>>3005649
It's not a bad thing but it isn't Mario. Make a 3D game like that and call it the plumber in the castle if you want.

>>3005659
How does that even work? I find Galaxy 2 and 3D Land/World much more fun to replay because I'm actually jumping and not just exploring the level for the sake of it.

>>3005661
>Old franchises should just die and turn into something completely different.

>>3005669
Sure, it's good game and it has the best controls in the gen, but it isn't Mario.

Tremendous game. Way better than the 2D Marios.

>>3005465
No, Rare turned them into shitty collectathons.

>>3005664
>the arcade-style purely platforming
There hasn't really been any "pure arcade-style" platforming in the series since SMB1/2J.

>>3005678
>not just exploring the level for the sake of it.
There's nothing you can do in Galaxy that comes even close to as fun and crazy as the shit you can do in SM64. This is by far not limited to only exploration.

>>3005669
>all the crazy shit you can do in mario 64

You mean broken control mechanics? That 0.5 A presses video showcases how broken and shit Mario 64 is.

>>3005676
>Old franchises should just die and turn into something completely different.
Anon, the way a franchise dies is by stubbornly sticking to a tired formula. Just look at Zelda.

>>3005681
>No, Rare turned them into shitty collectathons.

Yeah, but it was specifically DK64. Banjo-Kazooie involves more collection than Mario 64, but it doesn't go overboard. BK doesn't have that acrobatic control like Mario 64, because it's less of a platformer and more of an adventure hybrid.

DK64 blatantly went for the "collecting is good", "big is better", "more is more" mentality. And it's probably the only game of its kind to actually do that.

So when people say "collectathon" the only game that actually fucking applies is DK64. It's a word that describes exactly one game and is just used to strawman everything else.

>>3005684
Only USA had a fair bit of exploration, but nothing on the scale of 64. Every other 2D Mario was about beating the clock and gaining points and then moving on to the next totally new level.

>>3005693

What? The 0.5x A press is some dedicated mathematics work someone did after years of researching SM64. You wouldn't be able to beat any level of SM64 with a half A press if you didn't previously studied the game in depth.

If anything, SM64 is a mathematical gift from God to mankind.

>>3005697
That's a good thing. When a franchise's formula is tired, it should die.

>>3005664
>Anyone else dislike how Mario turned into a "Metroidvania" type game when he went 3D

What

>>3005703
>taking advantage of a non-superscalar CPU's truncation of floats to integers

>mathematical gift from God
heh

>>3005703
The guy isn't even actually playing the game. All the no-A press shit is tool assisted videos made using emulator save states and frame-by-frame advancement. Nobody can do that stuff on console or in real-time in any capacity.

But humans can do shit like in the video in the OP, and to me that's just the game working better than intended. It was an accidental masterpiece. They captured lightning.

>>3005702
>Only USA had a fair bit of exploration
I'm not talking about USA.

>Every other 2D Mario was about beating the clock and gaining points and then moving on to the next totally new level.
Yes, but with the introduction of the map/power-up screens and a save feature from 3 onward, that's when the main Mario series lost some of that classic arcade vibe in favor of a more action-adventure feel.

>>3005703
Exactly. It's broken.

>>3005721

Your rectum is.

>>3005716
Accidental masterpieces aren't masterpieces. They're buggy pieces of shit.

>>3005730
Who gives a shit? The metrics I use are depth in movement, enjoyability, replay value, and skill ceiling. Developer intent has fuck all to do with anything when the game objectively surpasses all others.

>>3005719
Having a map and save feature does not make them less arcade-y. SMBDX has these things, does that make it not arcade-style anymore?

Mario 64 might as well have been a Metroid game, because that's what it plays like more than a traditional 2D Mario game.

>>3005721
Works fine when I play it. Maybe you're retarded or something.

>>3005745
>Having a map and save feature does not make them less arcade-y.
Yes it does, since those aren't usually elements associated with classic arcade games. If anything, the introduction of these elements place Mario 3 and on towards something closer to Zelda or even JRPGs in comparison to SMB, which was more closer to its Donkey Kong/Mario Bros. roots.

>SMBDX has these things, does that make it not arcade-style anymore?
As mentioned above, yes. It might as well be SMB3 wearing an SMB1 skin at that point.

>>3005780
Lol, you're an idiot. Keep believing a map screen and save feature affect the actual game design so I can laugh at you again in the future.

>>3005745
>SMBDX has these things, does that make it not arcade-style anymore?
Kinda. Console, computer and arcade platformers were usually pretty different back then.

>>3005785
>Keep believing a map screen and save feature affect the actual game design
Coupled with the power-up screen I mentioned, it does in many ways. but keep denying it I guess.

>>3005684
Even those aren't ‘pure’ arcade experiences. With the amount of secret blocks in the game you can only find by hitting all the blocks, finding the ledges over the cave levels like in 1-2 to the warp zone, bowser and the hammer bros where unless you're really good at the game you have to stop and precisely time and align your movements to, and the slow traction of the underwater sequences, I'd argue they were going for a slower and more exploration-based type of the game from the very beginning. The only thing SMB 2US and 3 did was expand on that idea. The last arcade Mario was Mario Bros, ironically the last mainline Mario originally made for an actual arcade.

>>3005795
The point is Mario stopped being arcade-style when they got rid of the points/clock and the objectives started being more than about "beating the stage/boss". I believe they're called collectathons for a reason, which is some sort of platformer/adventure game hybrid.

>>3005802
>The point is Mario stopped being arcade-style when they got rid of the points/clock and the objectives started being more than about "beating the stage/boss".
I don't disagree, but my own point was it lost some of that arcade influence even earlier than Mario 64 with the introduction of more adventure game-esque elements. Mario 64 was a huge change on the formula, but Mario 3 helped paved the path to said change is what I'm conveying.

>>3005749
It works fine when I play it, too. But games with high speedrun potential are intrinsically shit.

>>3005520
No, I won't. I already played the game, don't plan on playing it again. What can your random video show me that I didn't experience playing it?

Go shill your youtube account somewhere else.

>games with high speedrun potential are intrinsically shit.
>What can your random video show me that I didn't experience playing it?
Imagine being this delusional.

>>3005947
>Go shill your youtube account somewhere else.
It's not my youtube account, the player is Japanese and barely speaks english.

>>3005952
Those are two different people. I know this because I am one of them.

Games with high speedrun potential are shit because they allow neckbearded losers with no life to break the game and play it the way it wasn't meant to be played. And don't give me that shit about how there's nothing wrong with people playing it the way they find fun. It's not a sandbox game, the game was supposed to be played a certain way and people who aren't playing it that way shouldn't even be playing it.

>>3005974
>Those are two different people.
Stunning that two people on 4chan would be equally delusional.

>>3005974
>supposed to be played
lmao. ALL games are "supposed" to be played however the fuck you want to play them. the developers release a product, and then once you purchase it, you're allowed to play it the way you want to. the ruleset is what the game allows you to do.

>>3005984
The ruleset is made clear in the instruction manual (or for modern games the tutorial). Anything beyond that is just trying to find ways to make a game you don't find fun more fun, in which case you should just find a different game to play.

>>3005978
Because that I was the other, and honestly I don't care if you disagree with me over not liking the game. For me it's not a fun game, why should YOU care? You go and enjoy it if you like it so much, as you should be doing already without needing my approval.
You won't convince me of this game being awesome because taste is subjective, and a video is not going to change my mind. I played enough of the game (all of it) to make my opinion, what is so cool about that video that you think is going to change my mind, exactly? Seeing it played in a different way? I've seen speedruns and TASes of it already, even the "curiosity" ones that clear the game without jumping, so what is so special about it?

>>3005974
Stop sucking developer nut. The reason speedrunning, modding, romhacks, custom maps, etc exist is to increase replay value for already great games. People play games the way they weren't meant to be played all the time, maybe more often than not.

Trying to dictate how people enjoy a product they paid money for is top level wet blanket nonsense.

>>3005947
I don't think you're old enough for this board. Maybe you'd enjoy >>>/v/ better

>>3005997
I wish I could dictate how people enjoy a product, because people in general are fucking retards and do everything wrong.

>>3006002
It's funny how the top players of this game are better at it than you are at any game you've ever played.

If there's anyone who enjoys gaming the wrong way, it's fucking casuals like you.

>>3005998
Hah. Why is that? I was around when this game was brand new, I was caught in the hype and I played it, but I didn't enjoy it. What does that have to do with age?
Please enlighten me, oh wise elder.
I'll admit the gameplay is nice, but I completely hated having to go over the same maps over and over, I found it a waste of mechanics. It's that simple.
If it had more maps I'd have a different opinion of it.

>>3005993.
>Playing the game and having fun with it is just an attempt to have fun playing the game.
Thanks for the insight, socrates.

>>3006009
>Holds right and presses jump when prompted.
Oh wow, the depth and skill in this game is incredible!

>>3006008
Fuck you. You're wrong and I am right.

>>3006020
Dude, I said the gameplay is nice but I didn't like repeating the maps. How exactly do you get to that from my post?

>>3005993
>The ruleset is made clear in the instruction manual
So you lack the ability to form thoughts without direct instruction. Spotted the retard, everyone.

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>>3006009
Yeah, despite recognizing its influence and all (for better or worse), I didn't care for it much either. I honestly preferred the PS1 side of things (Crash, Spyro, Jumping Flash etc.) to be honest. It still had its merits though

>>3006036
Fuck off. People who don't play games the way I play them are the retards.

>>3006039
Autism as fuck

>>3006151
I don't care if it's autistic, because it's right.

>>3006037

>prefers Crash to SM64
>posts freeshrugs.jpg

I think that sums up my feelings for your opinion. There's a number of things I could list that were off and just bad design with Crash games, but 3D Mario games have plenty of their own issues. I definitely prefer 3D Mario though because when they hit their peak (aforementioned bowser worlds, Tick Tock Clock, Rainbow Ride) they're fantastic.

>>3005993

>what is warcraft 3

>>3006037

SM64 and Jumping Flash >>>>>> Spyro and Crash

>>3005626
I'd even argue that Galaxy 1 was better overall, but on the grounds of being a spectacle. The Galaxy games are great for how they look and sound, not for how they play. The effect of playing Galaxy 1 for the first time is still quite profound on me. Only after seeing Galaxy 2 did I realize that much of the joy came from the presentation and the novelty. Once you peeled away those layers, both games ended up being pretty mediocre.

Yet it's funny that with all I feel about Mario 64, I've never 100% completed it. I always get to 100-something and quit.

>>3005697
Or castlevania, not once but twice

Of course, a few things can live forever if they're popular enough, take dragon quest and call of duty for example.

>>3006638
I've never gotten 120 stars in Mario 64 either, despite it being one of my favorite games, at times it's even in the running for the #1 spot. It's something I've been meaning to do for a while, but as an adult with limited time, I always feel somewhat guilty about replaying an old game instead of playing one I haven't played before.

>>3005780
I think you're oversimplifying your argument here and it's hurting you. The map in SMBDX is just an animation, it doesn't mean anything. The difference for SMB3 and especially SMW is that you can actually control your place on the map, and that has meaningful consequences to it. You can choose to play or not play some levels, which fundamentally changes how the game ends up for you. SMB1 has that too, but only in an infant stage via the warps. It's SMB3 and World that expand it to have deeper significance, and mark that deviation from standard arcade level-by-level format and begin to venture into the world of adventure.

>>3005943
I don't entirely understand your position here. Are you judging a game based on how well it's programmed? I understand that from a strictly engineering viewpoint, but games are rarely important for how they're programmed. I'd argue that the number of games which are solidly engineered is surprisingly slim, as being rather complex projects (and typically being without time or resources to fully fix every issue) makes for an inconvenient or even impossible environment for solid creations. unless it causes the game to fail to run at all or creates an experience undesirable to the player, it might just as well be an intentional feature.

>>3006604
>I think that sums up my feelings for your opinion.
Didn't say you had to agree with me now, did I?

>>3006609
I disagree, but I still respect your opinion.

>>3006702
Word.

>>3005465
>Short amount of stages you revisit over and over again
>Hub world
>Focus shifts to finding hidden items and collecting
>I can't wait to visit the same level for the 10th time and see if there's anything different.

Sometimes I think people don't understand that they did that due to limitations and used a solution that brought what people wanted to see in the beginning of the 3D era: 3D World exploration.
I saw the Mario 64 way of "having multiple ways to beat a stage" more like of an impressive thing than a detriment at the time.

>>3005526
And your momma forgot to raise you into a person with a good taste.

>>3007486

I've always felt that SM64's level design is actually a natural progression from the 2D games. In the 2D games you go through a series of "worlds", which are collections of stages that share similar obstacles, backgrounds, enemies, etc. The layouts of each stage are different, but there's a cohesive theme running through each of them. 64 isn't all that different; each of the different stars represents a "stage" within that world. You might cross some of the same areas within the world, and encounter the same obstacles, but your overall path through the world might be drastically different between stages.

Essentially, SM64 rotates the camera into the screen and behind Mario, allowing you to see all the different stages as paths through a fully 3D area, rather than dividing it up into slices and presenting them one at a time.

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>>3007510
>Essentially, SM64 rotates the camera into the screen and behind Mario, allowing you to see all the different stages as paths through a fully 3D area, rather than dividing it up into slices and presenting them one at a time.

>>3005609
Play Super Mario 3D World. Land, if you absolutely must, though it's inferior to World in every way.

It is a true "3D Mario" experience.

>>3007517

...Well? Do you have something to say? Because you haven't presented a counter-argument.

>>3007556

I'm not him, but I just wanted to chime in and say that I got ever star and badge in this game and enjoyed it immensely.

>>3007579
He wasn't disagreeing with you.

>>3007579
I don't have anything to say because I agree with you. I had never looked at it that way before and I found what you said to be an interesting perspective.

I'm not the person you responded to initially, I just posted that .gif because you opened my mind a little.

>>3007579
Anon he was complimenting you
You blew his mind and mine

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This game is the perfect example of how millennials have no fucking idea about how their goddamn generation began the downfall of gaming. Mario 64 is the PERFECT example of style-over-substance gaming by turning a once great series with tight control and solid gameplay into a fucking pile of shit with horribly imprecise controls and a laughably bad camera, and appealed to the "dragon's lair" style of gameplay that kids were taught to accept as "good" (the idea that you learn how to control basic movement by trial and error, not by following solid gameplay).

Yet another example of why /vr/ should be pre-1995, not pre-1999.

>>3007636
https://desustorage.org/vr/search/image/Xipi-vdM8Utjx8Bu-d1ybg/

Two years in a row. Good job
I guess.

>pre-1995
So PS1 and Saturn can still be discussed? Cool.

>>3005430
The speedruns for this game are impressive, I'll give it that.

>>3007636

>I posted it again!

>>3007652
We can't discuss any games here. It's just a pissing contest on a Korean pop-up book enthusiast website.

>>3007636

The controls are fine, git gud, etc.

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Not many people realize that the best N64 platformer was made neither by Nintendo nor Rare. DC version a best, I know.

>>3005639

>fucking super mario bros, it's nothing like the arcade mario!
>fucking mario bros, it's nothing like donkey kong!

There isn't any other game that does the crazy, acrobatic movement that Mario 64 does. You can do all kinds of shit, not even counting any kind of bugs, there's so many different ways to move and jump.

>>3007728
>that flying level before you beat the final boss.

fucking jesus christ! what the hell were they trying to accomplish by making it so annoying?

>>3007728
Why didn't you post a picture of Silicon Valley, the GOAT N64 3D platformer.

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>>3005430
>>3007728
>>3007773
Step aside, mothafuckas. The real best game is coming through.

>>3005465
This.

>>3005664
>"Metroidvania"

you obviously have no fucking idea what that phrase means so you should really stop using it.

>>3007636
>(you)

>>3007636
>horribly imprecise controls
>you learn how to control basic movement by trial and error

Imagine being as shitty at video games as this guy.

>>3007556
I don't have a WiiU and don't plan on getting one ever.

>>3008081
3d land/world sucks anyway. The people telling you it's good probably thought Yoshi's Woolly World was good too.

>>3005974
>play it the way it wasn't meant to be played.

>>3005636
>No room for creativity or sick ass parkour.

You guys are criticizing the galaxy games too much. People complained about the tutorial DVD that treats people like babies by teaching how to move forward and jump but the challenge sections:

https://youtu.be/PbDLuDRgnkM?t=19m49s

show that acrobatic movement and advanced play like in the OP video was actually intended by the developers to make your own challenge and reward better players. I'd argue that Sunshine also has amazing controls and a high skill ceiling, and it's only 3D world that dropped the ball on that aspect. But then again, that game was going for something completely different anyway, it would be hard to motivate the player to not get hit to keep the cat powerup if basic Mario was more mobile than cat Mario for example.

>>3005430
>my first 3D platformer was Mario 64 and I can't see how it's flawed compared to every other 3D platformer because I'm used to those flaws

You guys are just like that guy who keeps screaming that having camera control and targeting assigned to the right stick is inherently wrong because they aren't assigned to triggers.

Mario 64 has really really fucked up momentum and camera issues. These are major detriments and it's also why no other 3D platformer does it that way. If your first platformer were something like MediEvil or Spyro or Banjo you'd just "feel" how weird Mario 64 controls.

>>3009195

What are the fucked up momentum issues?

>>3005609
>>3005616
>>3005624
>>3005626
>>3006638
I first played Super Mario Galaxy when I was messed up on Oxycodone for weeks and weeks because of some medical shit.

That game is soooooo good on painkillers.

>>3005512
WELL correct me if i'm wrong but couldn't you collect all those items in the same run of a stage? Like, say, if you played the stage right, you'd get all the coins, all the flowrs, and all the red coins just plowing through the stage.

It's not the same in SM64, where replay is mandatory for there to even BE red coins int he first place

>>3008084
What's so bad about 3D world?

>>3009195
you are so wrong dude

>>3005681
>Tremendous game. Way better than the 2D Marios.

Miyamoto pls, people would rather play New Super Mario Bros than 64.

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>>3005701
>DK64 blatantly went for the "collecting is good", "big is better", "more is more" mentality. And it's probably the only game of its kind to actually do that.

I'll just leave this here.

>>3005609
First Galaxy is worse in that regard. Also Wii taught me something I never managed to understand prior to it : the true value of a game lies in its replayability. Galaxy games have garbage replay value because they're built on the element of surprise and how much wow they can squeeze out of the player. Beyond that you realize they're just dull and uninteresting, trying too hard to promote the 3D schlick.

I'm playing the DS version. Does this version have the same bugs/exploits that people love on the 64?

Loving the game by the way. I'm more of a RPG guy but the game is awesome.

>>3010157
HAHAHAHA, no.

>>3010692
Numbers don't lie.

>>3010689
>same glitches
>in another version of the game

DS version is pretty awful, the colors on the 64 are stronger and makes the world very colorful. Especially seen on Bob-Omb Battlefield.
The characters are unnecessary, but I can understand the appeal. The enemies are, for the most part, the same, but things like Nessie and shit like that have been altered to look like already existing Mario characters which limits the universe instead of expanding it.

Controls
>press button to run
>8 directions because of +
eh.

>>3010701
And CoD: MW3 probably sold more copies than all your favorite games out together, what's your point?

>>3010714
That people would rather play New Super Mario Bros than 64.

>>3010746

Not me. I hated the 2D Marios. I didn't "get" whatever atmosphere and flavor they were trying for. Also I wasn't too keen on the controls.

Super Mario64 I totally got. Don't get me wrong, there are some facets of the game I don't like, but overall it left a very strong impression.

>>3010703

The DS version should never have been made, and Nintendo's failure to recognize that is very telling. Why the fuck would you ever port a game meant to show off 3D gaming via an analog stick to a system that lacks one (and then hope and pray hacky touchscreen controls would make up the difference)?

I've always said that Nintendo really fucked up not including the 3DS slider a generation early on the DS. Could've killed the PSP on the spot.

>>3010031
You're wrong. The only time you need to enter a stage, leave, and come back again, is in Bob-Omb Battlefield for the stars that require the wingcap. In every other stage you can do all of the stars one after the other if you want.

>>3009195
I love the sense of momentum SM64 has. I also vastly prefer the camera to the other games you've mentioned.

My first 3d platformer was Crash Bandicoot. SM64 is superior to every game you've mentioend.

>>3009195
The people who complain about SM64's camera are too retarded to understand how to use it, generally speaking.

>>3010689
The movement and physics in the DS version were so fucked up. It's barely the same game. You can't even wallkick from a sideflip or triple jump.

>>3005430
>Super Mario 64 was the pinacle of movement depth in platforming and video games in general
Do people unironically believe this?
Have they ever played ANY other game besides SM64?

>>3012662
>Do people unironically believe this?
People believe this because it's objectively true. Watch the video in OP and find me one game with nearly as much depth in movement as Super Mario 64.

>>3012668
All I see are a bunch of unintended bugs that let you beat the already boring level faster

>>3012671
What do the mechanics being unintended have to do with anything? I'm not arguing that the sm64 developers intended to make incredible movement depth, I'm arguing that sm64 HAS incredible movement depth.

>>3012687
You shouldn't use bugs and glitches to praise a game's gameplay. That's just unfair and even other games feature some kind of "advanced" movement if you know how to exploit some bugs. Sonic and Crash games come to mind.
But you don't see anyone praising these games for its glitches do you?

>>3012693
>But you don't see anyone praising these games for its glitches do you?
Yes, you do, all the time. Spyro 1 has incredible (unintended) movement mechanics as well.

SM64's are better though.

>>3012693
>>3012703
Also, how do you know which movement mechanics are intended and which ones aren't? Obviously clipping through walls with backward longjumps aren't intended, but what about the stars with no identifiable glitches? The ones that are all just movement? Can you point out an example of a star with an unintended movement mechanic in that video that doesn't involve backward longjumps or clipping through a wall?

>>3012693
There are no bugs or glitches in this video. All of these movement mechanics were intentionally put into the game. If I'm wrong, point out what the bugs/glitches are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd816VgvaFo

>Built-in input lag
>Pinacle of anything

Also a reminder that it was the intent of the developers for players to complete stars in creative ways. This was the intention behind the open environment and dynamic movement.

>>3012719
There is no input lag in Super Mario 64, aside from the virtual console releases, which have a number of problems that the original didn't have.

>>3005430

Going from large collections of well designed level to small, ugly 3D arenas you have to play over again to get stars wasn't a fun experience. The collect-athon was great when it was optional in games before SM64 made it mandatory to play the next levels. I understand It was new tech, the game was late and delayed the N64 launch and they did the best that could but in the end it had a lot of room for improvement.

It doesn't help that nearly every mainline 3D Mario game afterwards eclipsed it by miles. By no means a bad game but I really don't understand its contingent of fans who think its the best in the franchise.

>>3012735
Is there anything the virtual console doesn't ruin?

>>3012738
>I really don't understand its contingent of fans who think its the best in the franchise.
It's because of how many movement options you are given and the feeling of momentum and weight mario has VS the limited, clunky and floaty movement mechanics and physics in later 3d mario games.

The amount of freedom you are given in SM64 in the form of movement and open environment was watered down significantly in every other mario game afterward.

>>3012738
>large collections of well designed level
levels based on holding right and jumping is not good level design. holding right and jumping is not good movement design. 2d platformers are some of the most shallow games ever made, with few exceptions. gaming became infinitely better upon the release of PS1 and N64. gaming became shit again after the release of Xbox 360, Ps3 and Wii.

>>3012693
>>3012703
Bunnyhopping was unintended in Quake and worked so well it became a staple of the entire Arena FPS genre. A lot of the best discoveries are made by accident.

>>3012775
I agree 100%

People who whine about unintended mechanics that improve gameplay are some of the most retarded gamers in existence who likely have a very superficial or limited passion for games in general.

>>3012738
How on earth did you manage to fit this much "wrong" into a single post? I hope this isn't pasta because I'm about to seriously respond. Let's see...

>>3012738
>Going from large collections of well designed level
>going from
>from
>implying SM64 had poor level design

>to small, ugly 3D arenas
I guess that's how you would feel if you were, like, some kid born in the 2000's and only went back to SM64 for some hipster cred? But for everyone else who remembers playing it knows that at the time SM64's graphics and levels were absolutely not perceived as either small or ugly. They were the most incredible places you had ever explored in a video game.

>you have to play over again to get stars wasn't a fun experience.
Oh fuck you. Yes it was. It's like watching -- or rather, playing, as it were -- a different episode of a TV sitcom.

>The collect-athon
Nope.

>>3012759
>levels based on holding right and jumping is not good level design. holding right and jumping is not good movement design. 2d platformers are some of the most shallow games ever made, with few exceptions.

"levels based on holding right and jumping" and "holding right and jumping" is not an accurate description of classic Mario games. If that's how you sum up 2D platformers, you must be the most intellectually shallow person ever.

>>3012795
That is the majority of the game. Obviously there are additional mechanics, but holding right and jumping quite literally 90% of the game.

Super Mario 64 has punching, diving, longjumping, rolling, kicking, jump diving, three different default jump heights that can be comboed with dives, kicks and wallkicks, four different types of frame based wallkick, slide kicks, various combinations of all of these, 360 different directions you can face, and 100 different walking speeds. am i forgetting anything? how can you possibly argue that there is more depth to any 2d platformer?

File: Simpsons-angry-mob-pitchfork-torches.jpg (73KB, 500x368px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 500x368px

>>3012759
A millenial, kill it!!!

>>3012807
What the fuck is a millenial? I was born in the 80s and grew up with 2d games. It's not my fault I can see games for what they are instead of clinging to shitty nostalgia.

>>3012813
You really can't see them as they are, though. And ironically it's because you're the one who is clinging to this idea that the only reason people like 2D games is because of nostalgia.

>>3012806
>That is the majority of the game.
Hahaha. No.

Let me ask you something. When you say "the game," what do you mean by that, exactly?

>>3012820
>you're the one who is clinging to this idea that the only reason people like 2D games is because of nostalgia.
]If that were the case I wouldn't like 2d games when some of my favorite games are 2d.

That doesn't mean 3d platformers don't have objectively more depth than 2d platformers, especially 3d platformers like Super Mario 64.

3D platformers were always shit and no matter how many glitches you find, it'll never be as polished and fun as a proper 2D platformer.

>>3012828
>i can't troll/bait /v/ let's try /vr/

>>3012824
>When you say "the game," what do you mean by that, exactly?
Super Mario Bros.

Play through it again and pay attention to how often you are holding right while timing jumps.

>>3012834
Oh ok, so by "game" you actually meant "title" of the game.

Well I guess that speaks for itself and there's nothing left for me to say.

Imagine being so braindead you think this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgjAt1VZBVo

has more depth than this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RycwP_52DZE

>>3012813
I don't have any nostalgia for 2D games. The 2D games I played in my youth like Sonic I have no interest playing now. I played Sonic 2 a few days ago assuming some nostalgia would kick in and was shocked at how bad an experience it was. With a few exceptions nearly all the great 2D games I found as an adult. Course you'll just ignore my example next time you come out with your fucking "nostalgia" bullshit.

To get a picture how retarded you are, what you're saying is like saying: "how can anyone possibly say books can have more depth than movies, in movies you can see the actors!", or "how can anyone possibly say quake has more depth than call of duty. Call of duty has more weapons and objectives! Keyboard synthesizer has more depth than a piano, because on a synthesizer you can have more sounds... DERRR. You appear to be doing almost the unbelievably stupid in confusing depth in space with depth related to quality.

>>3012834
What about how much time you're pressing "forward" in 3d games you fucking shithead.

>>3012838
Imagine being so braindead that you think that a shitty and glitchy N64 collectathon had the same revolutionary impact as SMB.

>>3012840
>"how can anyone possibly say quake has more depth than call of duty. Call of duty has more weapons and objectives!"

Quake is better than call of duty because it has more dynamic movement options. The same reason Super Mario 64 is better than other mario games. The quantity of movement options you are given is a significant factor in the quality of games that are largely based around movement.

>>3012845
I didn't say anything about the revolutionary impact either game had. That's a different argument altogether.

>>3012845
Where are the glitches in that SM64 video? I'm not seeing any.

>>3005430
The only "depth" is inside your skull you dumb millenial

>>3012840
>played Sonic 2 a few days ago assuming some nostalgia would kick in and was shocked at how bad an experience it was.
Well you played the inferior 2 instead of 3, what did you expect? Why did you do that? It's like you didn't know it was bad.

>>3012853
>If I close my eyes it's not there!

>>3012831
>it'll never be as polished and fun as a proper 2D platformer.
Like Awesome Possum and almost all the other 2D Sanic wannabes, right?

I find this whole 2D vs. 3D platformer war hilarious btw.

>>3012859
Yet you don't seem to be capable of pointing any out.

>>3012843
Kek.

Yeah I think his whole argument pretty much comes down to, "having to interact and generally do things in games is bad game design."

>>3012845
Right now I'm imagining being so mad that I'd argue SM64 had less an impact on games than SMB, even though I know it's not true, rather than admitting I'm wrong.

can somebody point out the glitches to me in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsMa0VAZdYM

utilizing movement mechanics to complete stars in creative ways is what the developers intended with sm64. i'm not sure what you people mean when you call super mario 64 buggy.

>>3012869
I can well imagine a 90s fag thinking that, based on what they've read about things before they were even fucking born.

SM64 is a buggy mess. Older Mario games have no glitches and are flawlessly designed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85BCbrpNhEg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-kMm6tPYsY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14wqBA5Q1yc

>>3005701
I introduced my friend to Banjo Kazooie last weekend. It is a collectathon. With Jinjos, notes, jiggies, mumbo skulls, there's a lot to collect.

>>3005701
Late but... who said a "collectathon" was about going "overboard"? I'm pretty sure collectathon comes from "marathon", ie. there's a lot of collecting. Some people use the term disparagingly a lot, I love collectathons and DK64 isn't the only collectathon in the world. How would it make sense to have a genre of games only one game fit into?

>>3005430
Was DK '94 the pinacle of movement depth in a 2D platforming video game?

>>3013684
>movement depth in a 2D
What do you mean by this? I can see in a 3D game, but...

>sm 64
>not melee

get cucked tr4sh fag

>>3012747
>The amount of freedom you are given in SM64 in the form of movement and open environment was watered down significantly in every other mario game afterward.
Has there even been a game of any kind since then which matched SM64's movement depth? I don't think so. This is what happens when too much false importance is placed into graphics, story, etc. I blame gaming journalism for this.

>>3013883
>Has there even been a game of any kind since then which matched SM64's movement depth?
Nope. Not one. It's bewildering.

>>3012845
>glitchy N64 collectathon
Starting from the fact that you have to jump on the top of the flagpole so Mario gets more acceleration to end stages 11 frames faster, then going to 4-2 where you hit a vine block to despawn a piranha plant, then doing a wrong warp to go down a pipe and come out on the vine warp zone by backward jumping into blocks to manipulate Mario's x position, then doing the bullet bill glitch that was setup by waiting a few frames on the title screen so you can clip into the flagpole block, then on the last stage doing another wrong warp, then a backward walljump into a pipe, and ending by sometimes clipping into Bowser's hammers since only the first few have active hitboxes, I'd say SMB1 is the actual glitchy game. That SM64 video doesn't show anything out of the ordinary, and as was said before:

>>3009150

That "Challenge" part is proof that even on Galaxy 2 with it's dumbed down movements Nintendo intended people to abuse the movement mechanics for shortcuts and self imposed challenges.

>>3013841
Play DK '94 and get a feel for the controls, maybe you'll find out.