Where did it go wrong?

1. Retarded AI companions got in the way and ruined pacing.

2. Steep learning curve.

3. Spent so long in development that it looked hideously outdated by the time it was released.

4. Hubris. By the time it was finally nearing release, everyone knew this game was going to stink but they still had the nerve to act like John Romero's Doom/Quake street cred was enough to sell the game.

>le dikatana was bad me-may XDDDDDD
Fuck off, anyone who's actually played the game knows it's a masterpiece on the same level as Doom and Quake.

>>2833891
back to pumping gas john

Really the game could have been somewhat above average if it came out in 1997. It wouldn't have been considered great, but it would've just been compared to Quake though.

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obligatory

Aside from the crashes, it was a bit dull but decent enough. A three out of five in my opinion. Nothing to hate, the weapons were fun, and for being relatively "old" at release, the textures were neat.

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The GBC game was a 7/10 Legend of Zelda style game.

its not even a bad game

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Corresponding to 64 high-resolution pack.

>>2833813
You're better off asking /v/ about this. Sadly this board has been overran with people trying to prove their retro gamer cred by defending any game with a shit reputation like their life depends on it.

>>2833813
Thanks to companion AI every mission after 4th is an escort mission, where you watch so your dumbshit companions wont get stuck trying to circle around a single box in a room.
>Mandatory hole jump near the end of a level
>jump
>cant go without Superfly Johnson
>Dipshit cant make a scripted jump and falls short every single time

Graphics were Quake 2 level, when Quake 3 was out for quite some time, and the design is pure atrocity

Absolutely uninspired corridor shooting, not different in any way from any other low-profile shooters of the time.

Weapons feel like shit even if they are supposed to be awesome

>Belt-fed automatic double barrel shotgun
>Needs whole belt of ammo to kill shit aside from basic animal foes

Retarded enemy design, especially at the start - Robotic Frogs, Dragonflies and bunnies belong to Megaman X universe, not a grim sci-fi future.

Retarded limited saves system

Maps are split into small segments with long loading times every 5 minutes when in other games levels lasted for half an hour and were loaded in under a minute.

The biggest sin: it's just plain boring and uninteresting to play.

https://youtu.be/7fJcZWmlBKU?t=37m09s

This is a pretty insightful footage about the game from the man himself.

>>2834364
>Legend of Zelda style game
Do you mean a top down action-adventure?

>>2835713
No he meant legend of zelda style gameplay.

>>2834310
Fucking lolled.

>>2833813
Romero having free reign happened.

Never give goofballs free reign.

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>this is what Romero looks like now

Holy shit

>>2837115

That picture is from litetally over ten years ago

He has long hair now, I have him on facebook

>>2834364
with one of the best soundtracks ever made

>>2837128

Doesn't he look like a member of Korn these days?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUU7_BthBWM

>>2835160
He could just ask /v/ because Daikatana is not retro, dumbass.

>>2840080
Daikatana's engine is Quake 2's engine, which was released in the 90s. It's retro.

>>2840080
If you call me dumbass again I will send an email to Hiro. DO NOT GET ON MY BAD SIDE!

>>2833813
They brought in a bunch of artists who had never created assets for a game.
They tried to gut and change the engine mid-development.

Check out the let's play of the game by Proteus and Suspicious, the game was so broke they had to rely on no_cliping, the thing I remember the most about that was the poisoned underwater labyrinth.

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>>2833813
It wasn't Doom.

>>2840090
Daikatana is not a mod, and it was released in 2000, asswipe.

>>2835713
its pretty much links awakening with more jumping

Are there any full playthroughs of Daikatana out there? I'd like to see it in action but all I can find are wacky LPers complaining their way through the first level and then giving up out of boredom.

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>>2841343
Why are you so mad bro? Did John Romero make you his bitch lmao

>>2833813
In development

>>2833828
>3. Spent so long in development that it looked hideously outdated by the time it was released.

The big one ^

>>2839052
>fat
>long-hair
>shitty goatee

Yep!

>>2835707
>quake was never meant to be a doom-esque first person shooter
>they had a company meeting and decided they were all so burnt out after designing the engine that they just needed to finish the game, no time for gameplay innovation (RPG elements, third person, soul-cube NPSs...)
>They add in doom weapons to their engine
>Stick with usual doom exploration and keyfinding / switchfinding

Some great innovation in that game, but wow that opens my eyes. I thought it was such a polished product.

>>2833813
obligatory

http://web.archive.org/web/20050105095704/http://www.gamespot.com/features/btg-daikatana/

>>2835203
>Corridor shooting
DID YOU PLAY PAST THE FIRST EPISODE?!?!
>graphics
literally any game company that isn't able to make its own engine had this problem
>retarded enemy design
>only mentions the enemies from the first few levels
OK M8, bunnies aren't even in the game fucktard
>retarded save system
It's supposed to prevent savescumming, if you're such a fag that you can't rely on map changes to autosave and the excessive amount of gems they give you to get you through just play the official patch v1.2.
>criticizing one weapon
Why are you even using the Shotcycler to kill only one enemy? That's like using the BFG to kill a zombieman, what the fuck is wrong with you?
>long loading times
It was varied depending on your computer sometimes but I won't argue with this.
>boring
your opinion but i thought it was interesting
>>2833828
>1 Retarded Ai companions ruined pacing
fair enough
>learning curve
it was meant for people who are used to first person shooters
>hideous
textures were better than the games at the time and was possibly the most colorful quake 2 engine game on the market at the time (im not talking about episode 1, im talking about Greece in particular)
Daikatana was an alright game with an amazing soundtrack, innovative ideas that unfortunately didn't work all the time but when it did was pretty cool, great weapon variety and gunplay (where else can I shoot someone with Poseidon's trident and then smack them with Thor's hammer and then kill everyone else with a sword?), as well as a good story and interesting use of timetravel.

The only reason you'd think this game is bad is because you've never played past the first few levels of episode 1, never played multiplayer, only care about graphics, and/or only copy and paste that Daikatana 64 meme.

Also has anyone ever seen the multiplayer of Daikatana 64? I really want of a video of it seen working.

>>2843263
we know its you john

Required viewing, Proteus' Daikatana LP:
https://archive.org/details/LP_Daikatana#

"Thanks, John!"

>>2843263
>textures were better than the games at the time and was possibly the most colorful quake 2 engine game on the market at the time

Great, except Quake 3 was already out..

>>2843270
Complaining about graphics on /vr/? With all the doom threads its clear people are fine with even worse gfx.

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>>2843201
>Perhaps Romero's greatest influence in the design was ChronoTrigger, a Square Soft role-playing game for the Super Nintendo that dealt with time travel.
A bit too ambitious.

>>2843263
>It was varied depending on your computer sometimes but I won't argue with this.
Actually, it's based on whether or not you have vsync enabled. I don't know why they did it that why but forcing it off makes the levels load in an instant.

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>>2833828
>4. Hubris. By the time it was finally nearing release, everyone knew this game was going to stink but they still had the nerve to act like John Romero's Doom/Quake street cred was enough to sell the game.

Never forget.

>>2843386
>Samurai Game Designer John Romero

He ain't no samurai, he didn't commit seppuku

>>2843470
That happened to me when I tried playing Brothers in Arms a few years ago. Having vsync on would literally take the levels up to two minutes to load.

>>2843263
The game has cyborg frogs, cyborg dragonflies, roided nigger inmates, dwarves in Scandinavia and cyborg ninja ladies. It includes highly enjoyable weapons such as a ion gun shooting projectiles that bounce on walls and most likely hit you, a freezing ion gun shooting projectiles that bounce on walls and most likely hit you at a higher rate of fire, a AoE melee weapon that can hit you if you don't time your jumps, a shotgun that always shoots in burts very slowly and needs reloading and a staff that evokes a demon capable of one shotting you if there's no enemies around.

Daikatana is not defendable, on any single aspect. It's basically the game an overgrown retarded high school idiot high on metal, aka Romero, would think would be cool.

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I find interesting how Anachronox looks heavily inspired by this game.

>>2833813
>make you his bitch
What a cocky fuck. Don't push your hardcore edgy shit on me you asshole. Just make a good game.

>>2844037
He wasn't even aware of the ad until it got published m8.

>>2844059
Yes he was, you lying cunt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daikatana

>An early advertisement for Daikatana, created by marketer Mike Wilson and reluctantly[4] approved by Romero, was a red poster with large black lettering proclaiming "John Romero's about to make you his bitch.", a reference to Romero's infamous trash talk during gaming.

>>2844224
>Yes he was, you lying cunt.

Oh the drama!

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>>2844224
You're right I'm just dumb and completely remembered what he said in this interview wrong.


https://youtu.be/lQMtVbz_JuE?t=418

Though Daikatana's marketing copy was stronger than usual, publicity guidelines were a lot more lax in general, they could get away with a lot of stuff nowadays would be unthinkable. Times change of course, but I do miss some of that spontaneity.

>>2843263
>>retarded save system
>It's supposed to prevent savescumming, if you're such a fag that you can't rely on map changes to autosave and the excessive amount of gems they give you to get you through just play the official patch v1.2.
Not being able to quicksave is a double-edged sword, it does prevent savescumming but if your game is glitchy not being able to quicksave is just going to infuriate most people who play it

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>>2844278
Not only that but it's a good way to prevent losing hours of progress if your file gets corrupted. I generally like to have around five or six save files with about a half hour of progress between each one in case shit hits the fan on the one I'm currently using.

>>2833891
John stop

It's time for a comeback.

>>2843268
Bring an actual argument next time.
>>2843270
>MUH GRAPHIkz
Oh so that means all n64 games are bad because graphics amirite? then goldeneye is 0/10
>>2843618
>cherrypicks three weapons out of the 24 in the game
Learn to aim. Would you fire a Rocketlauncher at point blank range? The staff seems a bit overkill in that respect but the other 2 weapons are fine.

>cherrypicks the 4 out of the many other enemies in the game
The cyborg fireflies and frogs are again only in the first episode and only the first part of the episode. That's like complaining why there's only a few zombiemen in doom e1m1.

I see nothing wrong with the other designs. :^)

>daikatana is not defendable on any aspect

Literally none of the 5 people that responded to me mentioned the soundtrack or multiplayer which is pretty decent though a bit lacking and that's assuming you're really triggered by the gunplay, story, enemies, and team mates.

>can't leave without supah fly
Just do co-op nigger or download v1.3

>>2846712
I'm not the same guy, but seriously it's ok to not like a shit game

Never played Daikatana but from reading the history and getting Romero's opinion to this very day it's a surprise the game was released at all. The PR fallout from the ad haunted development forever and a total of 85 members left through it's lifespan basically. Imagine if Daikatana wasn't released? It'd probably would have been safer considering Deus Ex and Anachronox turned out pretty good.

Idk it's a pretty interesting game as far as reading about it.

>>2846712
>Oh so that means all n64 games are bad because graphics amirite? then goldeneye is 0/10

Are you underage? Unlike Daikatana, Goldeneye actually looked pretty good at the time it was released. Remember, it came out before Quake 2, Jedi Knight, Unreal, SiN and Half-Life.

One thing the N64 version has over the PC version is that it doesn't crash as often.

>>2846715
I was addressing his arguments and if your definition of shit is my definition of playable that's fine. My problem is how everyone cherrypicks at it and thinks that Daikatana could've been any better when only 2 employees of the entire workforce had any experience in making a game (other than modding existing games) and trying to keep up with technology at a time that technology kept advancing at a rapid rate. The graphical leaps and hurdles of when Daikatana started and was released was much more noticeable then the graphical leaps of the same amount of time in let's say 2004-2007. Despite being a powerhouse in 1997, the quake 2 engine looked pretty bad in 2000 whereas half life 2 being a powerhouse in 2004, the game still looked pretty good when half life 2 episode 2 was released.

Again, nobody in this thread mentions the multiplayer or other good sides of the game and while I understand the thread said "what went wrong" it is unfair to judge a game without fully addressing both sides.

>>2847084
Quake 2 was released only a few months after I believe and technically was just a heavily modified version of Quake 1 on a technical standpoint that added colored lighting.
There is nothing appealing about Goldeneye when compared to quake in terms of Graphics and Half life came only one year after and looked a million times better and had actual lip syncing and character models that didn't have pictures slapped onto the character models as faces.
My point being that graphics should be irrelevant as long as they don't look too shabby considering this game started production in 1997 on the QUAKE 1 engine which would've been a lot worse if the game stuck with it for various reasons.

>>2849086
>My problem is how everyone cherrypicks at it and thinks that Daikatana could've been any better when only 2 employees of the entire workforce had any experience in making a game (other than modding existing games) and trying to keep up with technology at a time that technology kept advancing at a rapid rate.

Sounds like a lot of excuses m8. Shouldn't we critique the result of the game by itself like we would ignore the controversy surrounding the game?

>>2849193

It is excuses. John fucked up. John fucked up _big time_. It's really that simple. While I think every bit of what happened to him was well-deserved, it's been....What?...A decade and a half?

Let the guy try to redeem himself 'fer chrissakes.

>>2840090
Wanna discuss Call of Duty Black Ops II then?

>>2849086
>Quake 2 was released only a few months after I believe and technically was just a heavily modified version of Quake 1 on a technical standpoint that added colored lighting.

They also added native support for 3D accelerated rendering. GLQuake on the other hand had plenty of features broken, so it kinda sucked.

>There is nothing appealing about Goldeneye when compared to quake in terms of Graphics
The fact that it wasn't brown, that it was properly hardware accelerated, and that it took place in large outdoor areas with good draw distance made it appealing. Quake 1 looked better if you bumped up the resolution, but let's not pretend that Goldeneye wasn't at least a 7/10 in comparison. While Daikatana actually looked like trash compared to every other game at the time.

>Half life came only one year after and looked a million times better
Over a year actually, and that's hardly a good example. Unreal came only 6 months before Half-Life and looked "a million times" better than that game.

The fact is that Goldeneye for 1997 standards (particularly considering its release before the blockbuster Quake 2) looked very damn reasonable. Daikatana looked blatantly outdated. And that was even if you had a top PC.

>>2846712
The not-rocket launcher, all the three versions of it, always shoots more than one shot when firing, with the exact same result of a single one. Which obviously should make people think "why is the ammo pool counted as if shoots single rockets, especially when that means you could find yourself with not enough rockets to trigger a shot but not enough to have the pool empty?".

Then there are weapons that are meant for having secondary fire, like the shotgun/grenade launcher, but don't, forcing you to switch to the same weapon again, with little to no difference between the primary and secondary firing model. And the weapons that have reload animations that you can't control, since the game doesn't have a reload button, like it's fucking Marathon.

And the fact that the game is for 90% of the time a glorified escort mission of two dumb AIs with terribly racist accents that can friendly fire you, forcing you to backtrack the shit of all levels.

The game is chock-full of terrible design decisions, and if it's like you are saying that only two people on the staff had an idea about how to make games, then it's even worse, since the guilt is even more on them.