M&M Holywar thread

3.
It is way more difficult than World of Xeen, has better character portraits, and is more of a condensed package deal - it's fairly short (about the length of Clouds of Xeen by itself) and, IMHO, more re-runable. The final sequences are better.

WoX is easy, especially if you use its "travel between worlds" schtick from the get-go to get souped up in Darkside and then wreck Clouds.

The right answer is that the best M&M game in the series is Arcomage

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>>2830559
How is 3 difficult in any way? Unless you go full retard you'll never get stranded in hostile territory and there's always some solvable area available in case you can't break through an obstacle.

1 and 2 are difficult though particularly 2 borders on bullshit.

>>2830796
>How is 3 difficult in any way?
It's more of a challenge than WoX, for sure, which was my point. The puzzles, for the most part, are better and more challenging (I think M&M3 has the best puzzles in the series). You need to think a bit more, for instance on the whole waterwalking thing. You can fuck yourself up on the aging crystals in the pyramids if you are not attentive. More shit that will urge you to load the game over and over, like Maze from Hell or the piles of gold of ruin.

And the main problem is that you can inadvertently make the Clouds of Xeen portion of the game way too easy - beyond what it already is - if you stop by Darkside for just a second and do any of the quests there.

But yes, M&M1 and 2 are the toughest ones, no argument here. Honestly, I couldn't get into them either, but I'll give them a more valiant try.

Neither, 3 is the best.

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I hate that I'm too casual to get into old CRPGs like Might & Magic and Ultima. The oldest one I've played and got into was Betrayal at Krondor but even then it was only for a few hours.

Ultima vs. Might & Magic - what's a good starting place for a shitter like me? Are the two even comparable? Should I just play M&M from the beginning?

>>2830803
>You can fuck yourself up on the aging crystals in the pyramids if you are not attentive.
But you can save before every single one. High age isn't even that much of an issue, you only get a chance of dying every day when you're stats are 0, you even get bonuses on the personality and intelligence from age.
Getting rid of unnatural age shouldn't be an issue for somebody who can reach the pyramids.

>>2830807
>Ultima vs. Might & Magic - what's a good starting place for a shitter like me?
For Ultima, III is the first one that isn't completely oddball off the fucking wall and you can see how it could inspire games like Final Fantasy, IV is the first one that has a meaningful plot, VI is the one with the most accessible engine IMHO, and VII is the one everyone loves the most. You could start with VII, I figure, but beware it's more of an adventure game with little RPG stuff in it (not much character development, you get lots of equipment and magic but the combat is simplistic and such).

For Might & Magic - the first two games are fairly hard to get to "for a shitter". I started with 3 myself - it's pretty short for an epic RPG while being a rather simple hack & slash with just a few ways the game can fuck you over compared to other titles. It's also quite pretty. 4&5 are like 3 but more of the same, kind of like Fallout 2 expands on Fallout - there's just more shit to do, and it has that unique idea where you can freely jump between the worlds of 4 and 5 and have an unified main quest with them. 4&5 have absolutely gorgeous graphics and IMHO are easier than 3, so they're another good point.

From 6 on, you're going into an increasingly modern time and they should be perfectly accessible even for a "shitter", unless you really mind the HOMM3 graphics being superimposed into ridiculously ugly sprites.

>>2830823
>Getting rid of unnatural age shouldn't be an issue for somebody who can reach the pyramids.
Pyramid crystals add to your natural age, not current.

And anyway, my main point is that M&M3 is just a short&sweet package, WoX kinda overstays its welcome IMHO though its really magnificent.

>>2830825
>For Ultima, III is the first one that isn't completely oddball off the fucking wall
I don't see being odd as an obstacle.
Ultima 1 is a simple game that can be cleared in an afternoon and lays out the basics for other RPGs.
The controls may be a bit troublesome and the space combat feel out of place though.

Starting with 7 means you miss out on a lot of the context and thereby enjoyment. I'd really advise against doing it.

>>2830807
>Are the two even comparable?
Ultima and M&M went different ways. M&M stuck to combat and dungeon crawling while Ultima included more and more story and adventure elements.
Both are open world for most part meaning you can explore the overworld, towns and dungeons in your own order.
The combat difficulty is typically low for both series and you can save so either should work for starters.

MM6 was my childhood. It was even cooler, because it was the first game in the series I played. SO I didn't know anything about the tomb of Varn until I got into the basement. It had also been my first experience with the time honored tradition of mixing fantasy with scifi.

I'd always keep the flute on all of my playthroughs

>>2830828
I recently played through M&M3 and I'm inclined to disagree. I feel that 3 really gets long in the tooth, even though it's only about as long as Clouds. I find some of the puzzles straight exhausting, too (the dungeon where you have to flip a bunch of levers to access a room with a vampire in it springs to mind). It's a good game though, just not the condensed experience I was hoping it would be.

Really, I think people who want a miniature adventure should probably just play Clouds by itself, or at the very least play Clouds without touching Darkside first, which is how I play it.

>>2830807
I would start Might and Magic at either Worlds (4 + 5) or 6. If you think you can handle grid-based... everything and want to play a game representative of the early style of the series -- I say this with no judgement; evaluate for yourself -- then start at Worlds. Otherwise? I'd start at 6. It is, in my opinion, the best game in the series, and the gameplay is pretty cool even if it lacks any kind of depth. It's just exploring and fun.


I would start Ultima at VII. You can always go backwards later. The old games have many of the same high points as Ultima VII but, at least in my opinion, they pair it with frequent dull combat. In VII, at least, the combat is nasty, brutish and short.

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Decided to give MM7 a try, and holy shit, this game is quite something
>Made a team
>Explored first town a little bit
>Went out for some monster murder
>Met some dragonflies barely out of the town
>They kicked my ass
>They followed me back to the town
>They killed one third of the population before the town knights got around to finish them
Once again, I'm reminded that old games don't care about your ass.

I think we can all agree.

Might and Magic 9 was SHEEEEEET.

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>>2833659
>Let dragonflies kill a peasants
>Take a magic rod from red guy corpse
>Buy Bows
>Go to kill the dragon by running around him and shooting
>Save game before collect his corpse
>Try to get artifact weapon for your warrior
>Feels good man

>>2834237
Well...
>Bugged as fuck
>Ugly graphics
>Trainers now running on town and you must spend your time to finding them
>Can't see a difference between enemies and terrain
>Stupid main quest
>Boring races on start
>Magic is unnecessary complicated
>You can't now see how your team looks in theirs armors
>World is boring
>Everything looks that same
>Unnecessary swimming
>FUCKING CARNIVAL MINIGAMES AND FUCKING BUGS IN LAST LOCATIONS
>No more epic enemies like titans or dragons, no more fighting with Kreegans, no more sci-fi elements...
>Kill me

The only good thing was a back to promotion system from mm7, but even that was bugged.

>>2830682
It have some good moments but still:
>Ugly interface
>Worse promotion system than mm7
>Story was basically a early final fantasy tier
>Too much of recycling

And the worst thing - no bond with your team.

>>2835627
to be honest, I was also really pissed they scrapped the inventory system from 6,7,8. I liked that.

4-5 (Worlds) is fucking awesome. So cozy and really fun to min-max and get sucked into.

6 is the probably best one all around, and 7 is an expansion of themes, but overall a downgrade from 6. Good/Evil was fucking cool though, as well as the new skills. I thought the graphics were a significant downgrade though.

What the fuck happened to the design of 8? It felt so rushed, uncreative, stale, and almost like it was worse graphics as well. It was so ugly.

The worst part about the pre-6 games is that the monsters are fucking spooky and it's like everything has a mouth attack or something to get close to me on the screen and spook me as fuck

I wasted gems on lightning bolts for insane beggars because the way they CHOMP is just unnerving

Also the fucking ERADICATE status popping out of nowhere

>>2837218

How do you handle playing any game at all if World of Xeen freaks you out?

I am probably the only one that loves 2 the best.
>huge, tough as shit
>yet extremely exploitable, repeated runs offer some absolutely crazy shortcuts for the whole game
>best combat system in the series
>goofiest, most humorous
>two of the most challenging optional encounters in M&M

>>2837260
My problem was that the spells don't affect enough enemies and cost too much MP. Slashing your way through is the only way to beat most encounters.
And once you've acquired enchant item and manufactured ultimate equipment for everyone there's no challenge in most encounters yet it seems futile to play the game without cheesing.

From 4-7, World of Xeen is the only one I've actually replayed. 6 and 7 just get so grindy - facing down a map with a slow moving swarm of zombies or whatever coming at you all at once while you try to snipe or pull them away. World of Xeen never feels like it requires extreme cheese just to keep moving.

>>2837236
Admittedly:
>I never played a game that marketed itself as horror intentionally. That is, no System Shock (in spite of loving Looking Glass Studios games), no Resident Evil, no Silent Hill, no AitD
>I had to compose myself a bit when playing Thief because of the zombie noises; I only mellowed out when they started forming conga lines chasing me in Down in the Bonehoard

I'm just a tiny bit faint-hearted. WoX (and MM3) just have some unintentional jumpscares, okay?

>>2837260

I've been thinking of dusting of my genesis version as I never finished it.. I think I was pretty high level and needed to finish a few promotion quests to advance.. Also is alignment a big deal? Should everyone be the same?

I absolutely love the soundtrack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebl4Vfn1CfA

>>2837260
2 is garbage. 5 goblins summoning a party of a hundred goblins isn't a challenge it's manual labor. You just set a rock down on the attack key and go off to lunch.

Fucking dropped.

Going to play the whole series from beginning to end soon, at what point should I play Swords of Xeen? I'm not sure where it fits in the timeline.

>>2839096
After the 4-5 combo

>>2839102
Cool, thanks.

>>2839035
As tempting as it is, don't play the console versions. You'll thank me when >>2839087 happens.
>Also is alignment a big deal? Should everyone be the same?
It only influences the equipment you can use. A lot of it (especially late game) is restricted.
>>2839087
Shift+S speeds through them in a few seconds.

>>2839196
The European SNES version doesn't have the ridiculously huge encounters.
The Japanese SFC as well but that's practically a completely different game.

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>>2839196
>Shift+S
Intriguing. I may give it another look when I finish WoX. I liked 1 a lot despite its ridiculousness.

>mm6
>castle darkmoor
>just fuck my whole life up senpai

They got a little carried away, no? Getting all your buffs dispelled THROUGH A WALL def sucked. Still I loved it. That feeling of beating it... so rewarding. I think 7 lacked the difficulty to give you as much of that rewarding feeling, even though I love that one as well.

>>2839772
Darkmoor, while a total bitch, (fuck maddening eyes), was probably the toughest dungeon in the game. Maybe save VARN in certain spots...

>>2839772
That dungeon was fun to play with my all knight party.
>All my characters are insane
>gives no fucks

>>2840296
>INSANITY RETARD STRENGTH
>SMASH EVERYTHING
>ALL KNIGHTS = RAPE TRAIN

I think 3 Knights and 1 Paladin for Heroism Buff was a little better though.

Anyone try the MM6 and MM7 mod by BDJ?

I saw some screenshots of it and it looked pretty good.

>>2841157
thanks for showing me this.

>>2840296
I'm trying to do a "challenging" Might and Magic run but I haven't decided on what the best (read: worst) party in the game would be.

I think the correct answer is four knights, but it sounds more tedious than fun and a lot of the game would actually be quite easy since you'd steamroll shit pretty bad when you weren't poisoned or dead or something.

>>2835614
>exploit the loot without removing corpse glitch
>party kitted out with artifacts in all slots on first island
>have inf money

>>2841683
Party composed entirely of robbers. The can't fight, they can't cast magic, they can't even properly disarm traps.

>>2841683
The whole "challenge" of M&M6-8 is the tedium anyway. Even in the worst case scenario you can get a monster stuck in a doorway and hack it just beyond its reach.

>>2841683
the real tedium of knights is walking everywhere....unless you find an npc early on with town portal.

all spell casters was fun when I could spam fire balls and loyd beacons.

I've never tried all clerics but I am sure that's a breeze when you can just heal all day every day.

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So, I recently replayed 6 and figured out you can still use page down and up to avoid literally every missile thrown at you.

That sure would have been helpful back in '98 when I was 9. Suddenly clearing all paradise valley feels easier than Temple of Baa...

To this day I have no idea how I beat Darkmoor and Varn pyramid without internet when I was 10.

It took me 10 minutes to stop playing and find speedguide when i replayed it 2 months ago. It sucks not being able to waste days playing video games anymore.

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>>2843371
i still remember my first playthorugh of the first temple of Baa you find.
>Kill some Priests
>Steal a Gong

>THEN SUDDENLY 100 skeletons.