What's wrong with Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie?

Kazooie was perfect. Tooie's proble was backtracking which served no purpose other than to pad out the game.

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>>2814128
Tooie's problem was it was unfinished because Rare can't meet a fucking deadline.
Instead it's unpolished to hell, lacks content and has weak shortcuts and padding where BK while rough was very well thought out and full of charm that Tooie almost had.

Tooie prioritized minigames way too much, and some of the levels are a chore to navigate.

Kazooie is great.

>>2814128
They're popular games and /vr/ goes out of its way to make sure it's uber-leet by only discussing retro japanimation games that 12 people have played

I never liked them.

They were interesting, and the controls were good. But the games just turned into a leave-no-stone-unturned collectathon that felt really tedious. It was basically the 100 coin stars of Super Mario 64 without a lot of the other more interesting stars.

I don't think Banjo-Kazooie is a bad franchise. It has crazy amounts of charm in its characters and style. I just wished it had more in its platforming than just "collect <number> of <things>" over and over.

Banjo Kazooie is awesome.

I've played Donkey Kong 64. I tried to aim for 100% but got overwhelmed after 50% (so getting everything in 3+ levels)

I had fun with DK 64 but I should have just gone for the minimum amount of collectibles.

Would I like Tooie?

>>2814242
Yeah. It's actually really, really good.

>>2814162
>lacks content

..what? The extremely varied gameplay and large amount of multiplayer options aren't enough for you?

>>2814242

it`s not as heavy on collecting even compared to BK, but it does have fuckhuge empty DK64 worlds and none of the warps.

>>2814183
>But the games just turned into a leave-no-stone-unturned collectathon that felt really tedious

Why do people pejoratively call the Banjo games 'collectathons' while never do the same for the Spyro series?

In Spyro it's much worse than Banjo. There are a hell of a lot more Gems than Notes. Not to mention all of the pain and bother every time you break open a jar in Spyro, all the Gems fly out into the air and you have to laboriously pick them all up.

But I guess because Spyro was on a Sony platform it is immune to criticism.

>>2815148

Spyro had really tiny worlds, I was surprised that people thought it was a full fledged game when it was demoware tier.

>>2814128
>What's wrong with Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie?

Not much, BK is probably the best of it's kind and Tooie is great despite a few bad design choices here and there.

>>2814128

Nothing. Anyone who dislikes Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie is probably a shitty human being desu.

>>2815126
>and none of the warps

Good lord, how many of you "I criticize games without even playing them" faggots are there? If you're going to insult the game at least be factually correct, BT has warps in every world

>>2814128
it was on the 64

>>2814128
Banjo Kazooie is one of my all time favourite games.
Banjo Tooie is nowhere near as enjoyable and I can't quite figure out why.

Kazooie is fantastic, that game feels like it has no filler and os a joy from start to finish. On the other hand Tooie feels like it's too ambitious for it's own good, I appreciate the idea of creating a massive connected world but the execution makes for a more obtuse and less fun game. Still good but it feels more like a chore at times.

I think I get more enjoyment out of playing N&B more than Tooie (not trying to shit on Tooie, I just think very highly of N&B). Kazooie is still king though, that's a damn near perfect platformer.

Tooie is too big for its own good.

>>2815730
Honestly for me it was the opposite. Banjo-Kazooie was a great game and I loved it, but Banjo-Tooie just felt like so much more. It felt like an epic journey -- if you'll excuse my use of the term. Like Banjo-Kazooie but more, if that makes sense. Bigger and generally better, though the lack of Stop 'n' Swop was a big disappointment.

The Lair entrance to Click Clock Wood makes me fuckin cry man it's so beautiful

>>2816259
This, I like Kazooie, but given the choice I'd pick Tooie to play over Kazooie, probably because of why >>2815752 didn't particularly like Tooie

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>>2816397
Everything about Grunty's lair is amazing, it has aspects of every level but it still feels like it has it's own theme also. I loved the feeling of making vertical progress, with Grunty waiting for you at the top.

>>2816397

I agree, the puzzle room for click clock woods is also beautiful.

>>2815218

whops, it`s been a long time since I played Tooie. From what I remember the warps were not particularly useful until late game so you ended up running around a shit ton either way.

Not much, if you like to collect keys or hearts or bananas or whatever the fuck you do in the multitude of clones that followed mario 64.

Tooie starts with a way too long unskippable cutscene.

Both have long, boring introductory segments where you have to talk to that mole fagget to unlock basic moves.

Mario 64 makes you listen to peach's note/lakitu for 20 seconds then you're running around with all your moves (minus the 3 cap powerups)

Imagine how shitty Mario would be if they didn't let you long jump til the fourth level

>>2814128
Well I literally just did a 100% run of Treasure Trove Cove, a level many would call the best in the first game, if not the best in the series since Tooie gets a lot of crap.
Now I'm not a fan of collectathons so I went into this replay with low expectations, but looking back on it with all fairness it managed to even out to be pretty alright.
It pretty much did the two biggest necessities in a 3D collectathon
>level felt massive
>player is guided through the level
These sound mutually exclusive, but I had no idea the architecture of the level, yet I ended up collecting everything in under an hour. So Rare managed to master the collectathon, right?
wrong, and I say this because of one thing that happened to me
At the end of the level I was missing six notes
six, in a level this big
Needless to say I went everywhere, back to the ship, back to the tower, damn near everywhere
and the last place I look, it was in a fucking chest
Now normally I'd just say I was a scrub and call it a day, but I realized why this happened.
You see, notes are everywhere, just slightly less common than coins in Mario 64. Notes and coins are both used to not only guide the player, but act as bread crumbs to show where the player has been. the major difference though is that Mario 64 doesn't hide coins, 100 coin stars are always matters of killing everything, hitting blue coin switches, and just sorta walking around until you incidentally get enough. Banjo hides them, and this would be fine if they led to something else, but the six I was missing were out of plain sight and completely stand-alone, I only found them by a pure guess. My chances of doing something mandatory for 100% completion should not be as likely as finding a vine in mario brothers or bombing the right wall in Zelda 1

>>2814128
nothing

nothing, banjo is great TWO game series.

FUCK OFF

>>2814128
The movement is boring.

>>2816418
You'd pick Tooie because it has filler content? Weird choices people make.

>>2816735
the warps are pretty well designed since the beginning. I actually never thought the navigation in Tooie could be considered bad.

>>2816735
I remember them always being extremely useful and generally in very key locations. Except maybe the Glitter Gulch Mine ones. But then that and Grunty Industries were always my two least favorite levels.

Personally I never liked that the flying and the really high jump ability (the name of which I can't remember) required those pads to execute. It felt like they came up with those moves and later realized they broke the levels so they just decided to only let you do them at certain spots. It feels kinda clumsy in games where you otherwise have this rather large set of moves you can do at any time and all the other stuff you interacted with fit the environments really well.

>>2815148
I've never seen anyone here criticize Banjo and then praise Spyro. Personally, I criticize all collectathons.

I absolutely hate that sub-genre of platformers. If they can even be called platformers. Most of them barely have any platforming.

SM64 is the only one that actually succeeds at being a fun platformer, and it's the only one where collecting shit doesn't feel like a chore. It does have some problems though, like anytime you have to go underwater, but that's a pretty small part of the game.

Also, you have pretty much all your abilities from the start. Everything is done by jumping.

The problem with power ups and shit in most collectathons is that they're never used in creative ways. It's just here's the power up, then here's the one thing that the power up is used for. It just muddles the gameplay.

They thought by adding a bunch of shit that you can do would make the game more fun, but it really just limits the player in arbitrary ways.

i just started dk 64 and can't even figure out what to do after training

might have to trash it

>>2819582
Did Glitter Gulch Mine not make you feel uneasy? So dank, isolated and lifeless. And FUCK the Dark Rooms.

>>2819713
Yeah, it did actually. It was dank, isolate, lifeless, a lot of it was really dark, a lot of it looked the same, and it had one of the two most annoying jiggies in the game.

I loved how tooie actually felt like an upgrade.
You don't get Kratossed and lose all your moves and shit, you keep it and expand on it.

Tooie was also one of the, if not THE, first game I was consciously aware of before it released, so naturally, it had an impact.

>>2815148
>But I guess because Spyro was on a Sony platform it is immune to criticism.

Or because you keep going into Banjo discussions expecting someone to bring up Spyro for no reason like a gosh dang IDIOT!

>>2814162
Wow this is the most wrong thing I've ever read.

>>2819913
It's really not though, Tooie turns into a serious slog around the halfway point.

>>2817145
But there are several chests with items in them in that level

>>2819749
Those game magazine hype articles were the best

>>2820228
yeah but the other ones have junk like eggs and feathers save for a jiggy that's separated from the rest of the chests and is the first thing you'll see when you start flying

The game is fun and nothing special, but this applies to every game in the genre (collectathon).

They are kind of like the jack of all trades of videogames, they do a bit of everything, but focus in no aspect in particular.

Also Banjo is a fucking retard.

BK is perfect. Just the right length, every level is imaginative and full of neat content that captures its respective theme very well, almost none of the challenges are a chore, things progress in a logical fashion and the collectables are reasonable to obtain while still satisfying my collection autism.
Most of these things aren't so true with Tooie.

Grunty Industries was an annoyingly difficult level and I don't care if that means I suck

>>2821778
It seems like that at first, but it's really not. Once you find your way around the factory it's pretty ok. Except for the shooting sludge minigame. FUCK. THAT.

>>2821785
>Sludge

Kazooie has some of the best level design I've ever seen in platformers. I want to say Tooie is amazing so bad, but it has some fucking unbearably bad levels.

I USED TO LOVE PLAYING THIS SHIT WHEN I WAS A KID, I NEVER MANAGED TO BEAT THE BOARD GAME THING.

OUR HOUSE GOT BROKEN INTO BACK THEN SO THEY ROBBED MY N64. I GOT ALL NOSTALGIAC RECENTLY AND BOUGHT ALL MY CHILDHOOD FAVORITES BUT THIS GAME AGED HORRIBLY.

THE GAME IS RETARDEDLY BORING, FUCKING WATERED DOWN MARIO 64 THAT FOCUSED MORE ON GIMMIKS AND COLLECTING CRAP THAN FUN GAMEPLAY.

MARIO 64 IS STILL SOLID TO THIS DAY

THIS SHIT THOUGH SUCKS.

THOSE ANOYING ASS RETARDED ASS NOISES THEY MAKE ANTAGONIZES US. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH BRITISH PEOPLE AND THEIR MEDIA AIMED AT CHILDREN. WHY THEY GOTTA MAKE STUPID NOISES. ITS JUST LIKE TELETUBBIES. FUCKING SHIT GAME. THOUGH ID PURPOSELY LOSE TO SEE THE WITCH BECOME SEXY.


GOOD TIMES

>>2817145
Spyro had an upgrade for sparx that let it point you in the direction of the closest gem

>>2822069

Holy fuck my ears.

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>>2814128
>implying banjo-kazooie/tooie aren't flawless

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>>2822069
I recently played Banjo Kazooie again and I thought the noises were funny af.

SM64 is great but Banjo Kazooie had a better camera system, where you could position the camera behind you to face where you were facing.

Focused more on collecting crap? SM64 is literally collecting stars. I'd say both of the games are very similar, but Banjo Kazooie it's more theatrical.

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>>2822069

>>2817145
When I was 12 I tried a 100% run of Banjo Kazooie.

4 notes. 4 fucking notes. Couldn't find 'em. The level? Click Clock Woods. I was doomed from the beginning. Having to traverse 4 areas looking for the notes I had missed.

Ended up stopping me from losing the game. Lent it to a friend and basically forgot it existed. He moved away. At least a decade later, hanging out with him at a friends houses. Notice he has Banjo Kazooie. Pop in, first save file, 996 notes (or whatever the limit was). Instantly realised it was my game. Took it home that day, not a drop of bad blood between us, despite the fact he lent a borrowed game.

I'm playing through BK for the first time (never experienced it as a child sadly) and it's been a fun ride, but Click Clock Wood is giving me a lot of trouble. I don't know if it's just because I'm terrible at the platforming part, but trying to climb the tree for me feels a lot harder than it should be (not to mention tedious, since you have to make your way back every time you fuck up and fall). I've more or less completed all the other levels, but I'm really not sure how to progress here even though I've more or less figured out where the rest of the jiggies are.

>>2822913

Don't feel bad, and don't give up. They made Click Clock the last level for a reason; it's fucking hard.

>>2822292
It's probably the notes on top of the cabin during Winter

>>2822176
BK did have a better camera system, but the gameplay wasn't up to par. It was just walking around and collecting shit. Almost no platforming at all.

The stars in SM64 was the reward for doing something. In BK, and most following collectathons, the entire game revolves around that shit. Not only that, but there's multiple different things to collect, thus artificially padding out the game.

SM64 is guilty of that, pretty much every collectathon afterwards has that on the top of the fucking design document.

SM64 is the best collectathon because it's the only one that actually has substantially gameplay. Take the stars out of the game, you still have fun gameplay. Take the collectibles out of every other collectathon, and you pretty much don't even have a game.

Collectathons are a shit genre, and it's a fucking shame that every 3D platformer was like this. Yeah, SM64 started the trend, but every game after it copied the wrong fucking things. More shit to collect only made the games worse.

>Banjo Kazooie it's more theatrical
What the hell does that even mean?

>>2823338

Collecting shit is a valid gameplay mechanic. Therefore, saying the Banjo series lacks the nigh-mystical quality of "gameplay" is really just a lot of bullshit, akin to saying a book of the Bible wasn't divinely inspired or that certain things are not nor ever could be considered art.

Tooie just got a bit too ambitious for its own good. Kazooie was simple and fun, and that's not a bad thing for some games. Tooie was a bit too complex in its level design (in a bad way), and the backtracking sucked some of the fun out of going into a level and clearing it out completely.

>>2823345
Fine, but I still think it's a shit mechanic, especially when all of the gameplay is revolved around it.

I think it works much better as a reward for doing something, rather than it being the thing you're doing.

I think the big difference between SM64 and other collectathons can be more easily seen in speedruns of those games. There's a lot of technical skill that's allowed in SM64, while most other collectathons are very limited. The skill ceiling for those games is just finding the optimal route and doing it. It's just doing the same thing as someone new to the game would do, only you know where everything is, and can just do it faster.

>>2823386
>Fine, but I still think it's a shit mechanic, especially when all of the gameplay is revolved around it.
>I think it works much better as a reward for doing something, rather than it being the thing you're doing.

And how isn't the gameplay of SM64 revolved around collecting stars/coins?

>>2823423
Because there is platforming. Most of the time.

In BK, there's hardly any platforming at all, just walking around a level, occasionally using some gimmick that only exists to make the gameplay more convoluted. They give the game some variety, maybe, but it lacks any kind of depth.

In SM64, the only thing there is is jumping, and that's all you need. You can focus on that one thing in the level design, instead of having to be forced to design a level a certain way so a certain mechanic is justified. So then that gameplay mechanic is fun by itself, and the stars are the reward for how good you are at using it. And ideally, each star put you to the test to see how good you are.

I don't like games that have just a bunch of half-baked mechanics that can't stand on their own and don't even work together.

In SM64, all of his moves flow into each other, making things much more cohesive and elegant. You don't have to stop to do something else, you're always moving and jumping.

The whole game design of BK is just constantly giving you some new ability. Rather than trying to have one or two really well designed thing, they have a bunch of really shallow things. There are very few instances where the game tests to see how good your are, because each individual mechanic is very shallow, and thus has a relatively low skill ceiling.

>>2823448
BK isn't really a platforming game. It's more of an adventure game with a few inspirations from Mario 64.

Typically in a platforming game you have
1) All or almost all of your abilities from the outset
2) A clear goal
3) Your abilities for reaching the goal are based around using your acrobatic abilities to reach the goal

Banjo-Kazooie doesn't meet on these things. You gradually unlock abilities throughout the game (like Super Metroid or Zelda). There's no clear goal like in Mario 64, you just go around exploring the level. Your abilities aren't all based around acrobatics (even Link's Awakening had jumping).

Calling it a platform game is just left over from game journalists superficial analysis that the game starred cute animals, involved collecting abstract "tokens" and borrowed a few things from Mario 64. It was lazy as hell, but stuck with the gaming zeitgeist eager to categorize.

>>2824128
It's platforming in the idea that you're main means of traversal is third person running and jumping, not first person walking (and shooting), or third person with vehicles (no, don't even mention it).

I always considered Collectathons a subset of platformers, with like Metroidvanians or auto-runners etc.

>>2824157
>It's platforming in the idea that you're main means of traversal is third person running and jumping

So does that mean that Streets of Rage is a platformer? Beyond Oasis is a platformer?

It doesn't. Because those games aren't primarily about the use of acrobatics to reach a goal. That's an important element in what makes a platformer. Simply having running or jumping is not enough, it's about whether player skill in those abilities is more crucial in reaching the goal than skill in other abilities.

In Mario 64 the most important thing for getting to most of the stars is the ability to use Mario's jumping skills to reach them. In Banjo-Kazooie the most important thing is exploring the levels, finding where you can get your skills upgraded, locating the jiggies and using your upgraded skill to get it. Of course there are still some platforming elements, it was heavily inspired by Mario 64, but it's an adventure game first, platformer second. Probably the best genre description for it is adventure-platformer.

I thought the fact that Banjo-Kazooie being born out of Project Dream which was definitely not primarily based around platforming should have clued people in.

>>2824186
>Streets of Rage/Beyond Oasis
You can jump in either of those? I wasn't aware.
I mean like actively jump, not "as part of an attack" or "context based RPG" style jumping, I mean whenever you want, hold the button for more airtime.

Also this is the first time I've ever heard of Beyond Oasis - seems like you could have used something like Legend of Zelda to illustrate the point you kinda failed to make. I assume since you used it though, you're a touch fond of it? Looks nice, although I just beat Sieken Densetsu 3 so I'm kinda burned out on Japanese RPGs for now, even if Beyond Oasis is more of a turned based one.

>>2824216
>I mean like actively jump, not "as part of an attack" or "context based RPG" style jumping, I mean whenever you want, hold the button for more airtime.

How is that substantially different from Banjo-Kazooie which has very little "acrobatics" in its jumping / running / etc?

>Also this is the first time I've ever heard of Beyond Oasis - seems like you could have used something like Legend of Zelda to illustrate the point you kinda failed to make
That's very surprising considering that it was a very prominent game on Genesis/Mega Drive. I used it as an example because it is quite similar to Zelda but with a greater emphasis on jumping.

>even if Beyond Oasis is more of a turned based one.
It's very far from turn-based anon.

>>2824249
>How is that substantially different from Banjo-Kazooie which has very little "acrobatics" in its jumping / running / etc?

Banjo has jump, flutter jump, couch jump for extra height, ground pound, high jump (from pads), and straight up flight. The only things Mario 64 has over it is long jumps, triple jumps/black flip/skid jump (basically the same thing just different in execution) and technically wall jumps, but I feel they don't count because they weren't ever really necessary, just a sort of "oh hey look what you can do" thing.

>even if Beyond Oasis is more of a turned based one
Ah looked turned based, from pictures, didn't really go into much depth. Might give it more of a look now.

>>2824361
But Banjo-Kazooie lacks momentum, and platformers are all about momentum. It has a whole list of "moves" but they don't function in a free acrobatic kind of way.

Instead platforming in Banjo-Kazooie is treated like a skinner box, see high ledge - do crouch jump, see far gap between platforms do flutter jump, etc.

In Mario 64 you have a lot of control over the moves you execute.

>>2824490
There's momentum in Kazooie. You run, you crouch, you slide - you high jump when slide you move. I can agree there's LESS momentum, you have more control, but that's because its not singularly focusing on that higher level of "realistic" platforming. I can think of plenty of games, at least in 2D, that when running and jumping you wont necessary go any faster or face resistance when jumping, that aren't anything but platformers by definition (Kirby, Ganbare Goemon, Crash Bandicoot). Those are platformers, as is Mario, as is Banjo Kazooie. It really just depends on what kind of "tier" of platforming you wanna put on it.

Camera is third person
|
Traversal is run and jump
| |
Momentum More Rigid
| |
Mario/Sonic BK\Kirby\GG

I hope posting doesn't kill whitespace or thats gonna look retarded.

Click Clock Wood > Treasure Trove Cove > Freezeezy Peak > Mad Monster Mansion > Rusty Bucket Bay > Bubblegloop Swamp > Gobi's Valley > Mumbo's Mountain > Clanker's Cavern

>>2824519

>I hope posting doesn't kill whitespace or thats gonna look retarded.

Posting murders the fucking SHIT out of whitespace, as you just found out.

>>2814179
Severely underrated post

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I'm a huge fan of DK64 but I really don't like any of the Banjo games.

>>2825958
Do you perhaps have austism?

I don't mean like in the typical insult way, just that DK64 has shit tons of collectibles, like buckets and buckets compared to BK, that I imagine someone with autism would enjoy spending hours collecting, and that's the only real key difference between the games.

>>2826091
great post

>>2825615
I like Freezeezy Peak and RBB more than TTC.

>>2825958
I reckon I could like DK64 more, besides its huge amount of collectables, if it just had better physics. Everything just seems really slow and clunky whereas Banjo is polished and smooth.

Witchyworld > Hailfire Peaks > Mayahem Temple Jolly Roger's Lagoon > Glitter Gulch Mine > Cloud Kekooland > Terrydactyland > Grunty Industries

>>2827456
>>2825615
/SP/'S OFFICIAL BANJO/KAZOOIE WORLD POWER RANKINGS
---2-for-1 edition

BANJO-KAZOOIE
ETERNAL GOAT. Click Clock Wood
POWER GAP
2. Freezeezy Peak
3. Treasure Trove Cove
4. Mad Monster Mansion
POWER GAP
5. Mumbo's Mountain
6. Gobi's Valley
EXTREME POWER GAP
9001. Bubblegloop Swamp
9002. Clanker's Cavern
9999999999. Rusty Bucket Bay

BANJO-TOOIE
1. Witchyworld
2. Mayahem Temple
3. Jolly Roger's Lagoon
4. Hailfire Peaks
POWER GAP
5. Cloud Cuc kooland
6. Terrydactyland
POWER GAP
999999. Glitter Gulch Mine
THE ABYSS
99999999999999999999999. Grunts Industries

>>2827863
Did you actually have to chuck a space between cuc and k for Cloud Kekooland?

Is this going to autocorrect kek to something else?

>>2814128
Nothing.

It is a perfectly spherical flawless diamond gem of unparalleled quality, shiny and glistening, reflecting and refactoring all light into beautiful rainbows of colours that shine brightly and boldly on everything they reach, creating an atmosphere of pure euphoria in all who gaze upon its marvelous visage, before they become physically overwhelmed by the sheer rare intensity of the god-like sheen it projects and perish, although content they were witness to it.

Well, Kazooie could have not been retarded and made you recollect every note if you died, or given a compass or something to point out where the last little collectibles you missed were. But other than that, they are pretty good.

>>2815148
Because Banjo constantly asks you to collect loads of shit to progress and there's not much else to the game beyond its scavenger hunt aspect. The levels are intentionally large open ended hubs.

Spyro 2 and 3's levels are intentionally linear in design so you'll just pick up most of the gems and special collectibles along the way and there's a single clear goal, there's notably less of the important ones per world and the worlds are much smaller, and you rarely need to get any of them to finish the game. They're more of an incentive for completionists than the main attraction and they come in more digestible chunks.

They're both collectathons but their approaches to the concept are very different.

>>2814128
it was for n64

>>2829961
this.

Banjo Tooie did something most sequels never achieve, it built upon the original spectacularly and even improved it. its the fucking mega man 2 of 3d platform adventure games.

I wish the remastered versions were on PC.

>>2829961
>Well, Kazooie could have not been retarded and made you recollect every note if you died

The XBLA version changed that.

>>2822069
>THIS GAME AGED HORRIBLY.

What does this mean? It's the same as when it come out.

>>2822069

>Media aimed at children

I would argue that Banjo isn't really aimed at anyone in particular. Plus, all of those adult references.

>>2823448
>In SM64, the only thing there is is jumping, and that's all you need. You can focus on that one thing in the level design, instead of having to be forced to design a level a certain way so a certain mechanic is justified. So then that gameplay mechanic is fun by itself, and the stars are the reward for how good you are at using it. And ideally, each star put you to the test to see how good you are.

This isn't true. You can kick, punch, ground pound, crawl, etc. Also, many of the levels have "gimmicks" as you call them. For example, wing cap levels, sliding levels, shell-riding, etc.

>>2824361

I think wall jumps are necessary in at least one level.

>>2826823

Probably because DK64's frame rate is typically worse than either Banjo game, for some reason.

>>2822069
bait has never been this fucking hilarious before or after, 10/10

>>2829961
>Well, Kazooie could have not been retarded and made you recollect every note if you died, or given a compass or something to point out where the last little collectibles you missed were. But other than that, they are pretty good.

I like that you have to collect all the notes in one go. It adds that little touch of difficulty without going overboard.

And your idea with the compass thing defeats the purpose of exploring the levels. They're large and well designed and much of the appeal to BK and BT is discovering the world. It's like a treasure hunt, if you told where things are then what's the fun in that?

>>2832171
You know the whole post was a joke right?

>>2832568
I meant you get the compass when there's like 5 left or something. de Blob on the Wii does it and it's such a nice touch for completionists.

>>2824361
There's a few stars you can only get by wall jumping.

>>2822069

I actually agree about the jiggle sounds that items make when you collect them

it gets grating as fuck really fast when you`re collecting something every step.

tudledotudledotudledo like half the game plus those retarded sounds Banjo and Kazooie make

>>2823338
>The stars in SM64 was the reward for doing something.

so much this.

majority of the stars were a reward for performing some sort of a challenge related to the movement system, be it going through an obstacle coarse or something like doing a series of walljumps or just firing a cannon on an a floating isle.

the collectathon stars like 100 coin, 5 red coin and 5 secrets were completely optional and I`m pretty sure most of us did them just for shits and giggles after completing the main game, because they required searching through every nook and cranny of the levels.

You could argue that SM64 had some padding because it threw you out of the world every time you completed a star, forcing you to redo certain sections of the level to reach a certain point, but at the same time it removed a lot of backtracking through the level as well. So it kind of evens out.

>>2827863

why does everyone suck Click Clock Woods dick?

It`s one of the worst levels overall because it forces you to go through the level 4 times with minor alterations. It`s basically padding the level.

>>2834508
Which ones? I'm thinking maybe collect the red coins in Rainbow Road (or whatever it's called, the final, sky level), but I'm pretty sure you could just as easily flip, or climb to the top of the chute and grab them falling down.

>>2834585

there`s also Boos haunt, to get to the roof and one in Hazy Maze Cave that forces you to walljump to get it, from the top of my head.

I actually remembered the one in the cave the most because it was an absolute bitch to get due to camera going into absolute batshit haywire spastic mess mode.

>>2814162
>unpolished
muh meaningless buzzwords

>>2835114
>buzzwords
Meaningless buzzword.

>>2814128
Kazooie was a perfect 10/10 game. Better than Super Mario 64 for me.

Tooie was decent, but had its issues.
Mixing metroidvania backtracking with the collectathon genre probably wasnt a good idea. Some jiggies were very tedious because of this. Alongside this, some levels kinda overstay their welcome thanks to their size.

Tooie was still better than DK64, though. That game took the collectathon thing way too far, and had bland level design for the most part.