Why is it that there seems to be a very popular opinion that

This is a 1988 game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yND5V85iPHc

I, Robot - 1983
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmvWxG2zvs8

Wibarm 1986
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE1_Xcb6QCI

>>2797320
Never heard of it. Assume it never left Japan? How’d they do the intro with Genesis hardware?
The other gameplay parts are scrolling 2d it seems.

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3D graphics? hah, that's for plebs.

Neo Geo had 4 DIMENSIONAL graphics in the early 90s

Elite 1984
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IYQvxtOlcE

>>2797324
Gameplay seems to be a first person maze dungeon crawl. I never played it either.

Yeah, AM2's 3D arcade games really paved the way and were mind blowing. Can't expect e-celebs or the plebs who follow them to actually know anything about retro video games though.

>>2797319
>Why is it that there seems to be a very popular opinion that 3d graphics started with 5th gen?

Because 3D graphics actually became affordable and widespread with the 5th generation, every idiot knows that Arcades were always ahead of their times compared to consoles or PCs, but they were not as diffused as consoles and were also a novelty in their own environment as the vast majority of arcade games were still 2D games until 1992-1994 were a shift happened.
If you still think that the majority of people are not uninformed, ignorant idiots parroting other people's opinion, I don't know what to tell you, but they're not entirely wrong, 3D began to explode in the mid 90's, before that it was just isolated in the Arcade world and barely relevant, it was really expensive eye candy with no immediate effect on the industry as a whole simply because again, the specs weren't affordable.

In a way, 3D "started" with the 5th gen.

>>2797341
>were also a novelty in their own environment as the vast majority of arcade games were still 2D games until 1992-1994 were a shift happened.
No arcade worth a shit didn’t have at least Virtua Fighter.

>before that it was just isolated in the Arcade world and barely relevant
I don’t consider arcades irrelevant. Are you not American or something? Arcades were amazing.

>, it was really expensive eye candy with no immediate effect on the industry
Am I eating the bait or are you like 15?

>>2797352
I have a thoery that arcades were a form of oppression, but I'm not getting into that. Anyway I'm glad they are dead.

>>2797360
Well thanks to shitheads like you the industry is shit now.

>>2797341
I've got to agree with this. I remember what it was like going to an arcade and seeing Virtua Fighter and other 3d inspired games, but I didn't really care about them. I'd still go to the Streets of Rage cab or Mortal Kombat.. The thing I do remember, however, was being impressed with Donkey Kong Country for some reason. And then when I saw a friend of mine playing SM64, it about blew my mind. I'd never seen anything like that in any arcade ever. The N64 and Playstation(and to a lesser extent, the Saturn) did things for 3d that an arcade never could have.

>>2797368
You're probably not trolling. Oh what a sad state video games are in with people like you being the big demographic.

>>2797374
You forgot to turn off your trip, faggot.

>>2797372
>The N64 and Playstation(and to a lesser extent, the Saturn) did things for 3d that an arcade never could have.
This is a joke, right?

>>2797393
In short, no. Nothing in the arcades looked like or played like games like Super Mario 64.

>>2797396
I say this after having grown up in games like Descent. I was impressed by full3d DOS games, too. But not as much as I was with Nintendo 64 and PS.

>>2797396
Nigga this came out in 1996, the same year the N64 launched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3zkcy1Sag4

Does it really surprise you that more people played video games on consoles than in the arcades?

It's not that arcades and home computers didn't have impressive 3d graphics, but with the 5th gen they actually reached a wider market on home consoles.

More people remember the jump from Super Mario World to Super Mario 64 than the leap from Street Fighter II to Virtua Fighter, and that's why the narrative of 5th gen pioneering 3d graphics is so prominent.

>>2797415

that doesn't look like a free roam 3D game to me.

He didn't say arcades didn't have 3D games, he said arcades didn't have any games LIKE super mario 64, and that is true.

>>2797352
>No arcade worth a shit didn’t have at least Virtua Fighter.
So what? Virtua Fighter was only a novelty due to its graphics, SF and KoF were still 2D arcade titles until the very end of the 90's, with the exception of the EX series and were still the dominant titles, if you want to talk about racing or shooting games, yeah, House of the Dead or Virtua Racer were all over the arcades, but again, they're not influential at all since arcades stopped being big already by the time those came out.
>I don’t consider arcades irrelevant. Are you not American or something? Arcades were amazing.
Arcades were great but stopped being relevant by the mid 90's, I'm from Europe and Arcades were already irrelevant by 1994, everyone vastly preferred PC or consoles, unless you wanted to go drink with some friends and play some KoF, D&D or something.
I don't deny that Arcades were great, but to say they were more important than the PC or console market in the 90's is stupid.
>Am I eating the bait or are you like 15?
Think what you want, fact is almost no one cared about 3D in arcades, proof is as OP said, the majority of people today thinks that 3D was born with the fifth generation.
Arcades failed to be relevant to the audience, that doesn't deny their merit of pushing graphics and certain genres further but you must be delusional to think that games such as Virtua Racer were more successful than Gran Turismo.
Look at Arcades today, they exist almost only for fighting games, and they're almost extinct out of Japan.

>>2797448
>Virtua Fighter was only a novelty due to its graphics
Not that guy, but how fucking young are you? Virtua Fighter was a revolution. It was massive. I'm honestly a little bit amazed by the monumental ignorance of this statement.

>Arcades were already irrelevant by 1994
Not as popular as they were previously but certainly not irrelevant. A lot of big home console releases were still arcade ports.

>the majority of people today thinks that 3D was born with the fifth generation.
The majority of people today haven't played a game before the original Xbox! The majority of people are fucking ignorant and dumb, this doesn't change the reality of the situation.

ITT: "I don't know anything about arcades so they're irrelevant!"

I'd expect this from /v/ kids who have never seen an arcade and just repeat what YouTubers tell them, but I thought /vr/ was better than this.

>>2797430
>>2797396
What? This is the first time I’ve ever heard someone seriously say consoles were better than the arcade in terms of 3d.

>that doesn't look like a free roam 3D game to me.
What on 5th gen is free roam?

Open world 3d games weren’t a thing till PC games like The Longest Journey or Morrowind. Most everything else used 2d assets.

>>2797448
> Virtua Fighter was only a novelty due to its graphics
Go back to /v/ and spread your diarrhea ridden speak there. Not even worth reading the rest of your post.
Obvious underageb&

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>>2797448
>fact is almost no one cared about 3D in arcades
Alright this is bait. Never mind.

>>2797461

Calm down, nobody is saying X is "better" than Y, just that arcades didn't have a game like Super Mario 64.

I played Virtua Fighter 1 when it was new in arcades and blew my mind at the time, but so did SM64 in 1996, there was nothing like it. No game before Super Mario 64 let you explore 3D enviroments with that much precision and control over your character.

I mean come on man, I can understand if you dislike Mario and Nintendo for whatever reason, but this is common knowledge. Whether you personally like or dislike Nintendo or consoles is irrelevant.

>>2797464
3D boards were expensive and not that popular. There weren't many Daytonas or Tekken 3s coming out then.

>>2797461
>What on 5th gen is free roam?
I think by free roam he means that the camera itself is free roaming (e.g. that it can be actively controlled by the player).

>Open world 3d games weren’t a thing till PC games like The Longest Journey or Morrowind. Most everything else used 2d assets.
Yeah, but how "open" does a world have to be to be considered "open world"? It's a fairly arbitrary concept. In 1998, Hyrule Field was considered to be an absolutely massive area, but compared to today it's nothing.

Now anyway, here's my own input. I reckon the only console game that could compete with arcade on graphics at the time was Wave Race 64.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGy3x_pcAbs

For whatever reason, all of the water riding arcade games in 1996 looked pretty shitty, particularly in terms of the water itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMdCWa_N3K4

>>2797467
I agree about Mario 64. I think open world or free roam are the completely wrong terms to describe anything in 5th gen.
Large environments (for the time) like Mario 64 and OoT were amazing. OoT really blew my mind with Hyrule Field at the time.

>>2797474
>Yeah, but how "open" does a world have to be to be considered "open world"? It's a fairly arbitrary concept. In 1998, Hyrule Field was considered to be an absolutely massive area, but compared to today it's nothing.
The shit definition I’d give is a world to explore and do whatever. Ya a lot more goes into but I think it’s subjective to people just how much freedom equals an open world.
I think a key aspect is a large environment to explore at your own choosing. Both Mario 64 and OoT are a series of environments. You’re led by corridors in OoT and paintings in Mario 64. I don’t consider that open.

>>2797415
Man, Sega Model 3 hardware is pretty fascinating. Here's what was powering Scud Racer.

CPU: 100 mhz PowerPC 603e
GPU: 2x Lockheed Martin Real3D/Pro-1000
ALU: Mitsubishi 3D-RAM
Sound CPU: 12mhz Motorola 68000
Sound DSP: 2x Yamaha SCSP/YMF292-F
Main RAM: 8 MB
VRAM: 24 MB
Audio RAM: 1 MB

>tfw Sega used military grade GPUs
How the fuck can console even compete?

>>2797493
DC wasn't too far behind only 3 years later.

>>2797489

For the record, I didn't say "open world"; just free roam, as in, you can freely roam through levels, not necessarily open world.

1 year before Mario 64, PlayStation had Jumping Flash which is an amazing first person platformer which should also be remembered more, but Super Mario 64 was just something else. If you actually played the game when it was released in 1996, you'll never forget the first time you could walk around outside the castle, the feel of these controls were something completely new. Like being able to make back flip jumps, or slowly do tip toe walk, then running, pressing Z and doing a long jump, it was really crazy.

>>2797498
So you mentioned jumping flash, these threads are always the same aren't they? Next someone will talk about how tomb raider invented auto targeting.

>>2797502

What's wrong with mentioning Jumping Flash on a thread about early 3D games?

>>2797505
Nothing, I just been here too long. It's kinda sad, it's like how the beat'em up, shoot'em up threads always play up the same way.

>>2797498
I think a lot of the amazement was you were taking a 2d character into a 3d realm. That probably sounds stupid to the current generation but it truly was amazing.
>For the record, I didn't say "open world"; just free roam, as in, you can freely roam through levels, not necessarily open world.
I consider them pretty interchangeable but I took it out of context of what you meant.

And ignore the kid trying to derail with the who invented what first shit.

>>2797505
Jumping flash was an early platforming game in 3d, true, but it's movement was seriously limited compared to SM64.

>>2797512
you're correct, it had first person tank controls as opposed to SM64's third person relative-to-camera controls

>>2797512

Yeah, I know.

I'm still surprised there weren't more games like Jumping Flash, I liked how you could calculate your jumps and landings, first person platforming was never a thing outside of the Jumping Flash series. People often tell me to go play Mirror's Edge but I feel that game is more like a first person Tomb Raider, not really platforming.

One of the best things about JF is that when you jump, the camera automatically aimed down so that you could see where you'd land, and Robbit's shadow also helped calculate where you'd end up landing, it was really amazing, also you could double jump and go really high.

But SM64 was on another level in terms of precision.

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>>2797518
>first person platforming was never a thing outside of the Jumping Flash series
:^)

>>2797524

Yeah, I had Turok, but nah... I always hated platforming on FPS games especially because you couldn't see where you'd land, the camera stays fixed looking forward, unlike JF.

>>2797524
There was also UT99, which to this day has an active 'bunny hop' community, which was passed on into the later iterations of the Unreal games. I used to love bunny hop maps, and trial maps, as they're also called. Though, that was long after JF and Turok.

>>2797531
>bunny hopping
You get banned if you try anything like that in modern games.

Oh I miss that in Unreal and the surf maps of CS.

>>2797528
I recommend trying jumpmazes in Quake and in modern Doom sourceports, they're all about FP platforming.

I agree that it's really good, I can only assume it never caught on because Mario 64 took the platforming world by storm, so to speak, and people got it into their minds that if it didn't look like Mario 64 then it wasn't a 'proper' platformer.

Admittedly though, I've never played Jumping Flash. I suppose it's another one for the list of 'games I'll play when I finally beat all of my NES games'.

>>2797531
**bunny track
BT maps. My bad. Bunny tracks. They're prevalent in CS and all kinds of fps games.

>>2797498
I dunno, Mario 64 never really impressed me that much. Sure it was a 3d platformer, but PC FPS games had comparable graphics and the only difference from those was the third person camera. The ability to walk slow or fast felt gimmicky to me (tip-toeing was only useful around the sleeping piranha plants, but it was faster to just run around them), and being able to do 4 different types of jumps wasn't a big deal. And platforming in 3d very quickly lost its charm, since it was goddamn hard to precisely do jumps in 3d.

Plus I lived in Europe, so the game hit us in 1997 when we already had Tomb Raider for almost a year.

The only charm of Mario 64 had for me was the fact that it was a Mario game, and it was in 3d. But that only meant so much.

>>2797549
I think your memory of time is a little skewed...even in Europe you got Mario 64 less than 6 months after Tomb Raider, not almost a year.

I guess the biggest wow factor for the N64 launch was that you could finally competently play "fully 3D accelerated" games at home. Before the Voodoo came out in January 1997, the PC 3D accelerators were pretty terrible. Getting the N64 as late as March 1997 in Europe meant there was no "wow factor" for graphics since the Voodoo was even better hardware than that.

>>2797319
Because during 5th gen is when 3D became standard for console games. There was some crude and experimental stuff in 4th gen but it wasn't common.

Most people don't much give a shit about some old arcade machine that showed crude untextored polygons as a gimmick in the 80's.

5th gen and the mid-90's is when 3D came into common use for computer and console games, when it became common.

>>2797364
>feeding coins into a machine in public is better than microtransactions
It's the same shit for all I care.

>muh mario 64
>muh free roam
Who the fuck cares, Model 3 has infinitely better draw distance, poly count and 60 FPS. This is Xbox level or maybe better, N64 isn't even close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmBZwRk4MtI

>>2797678

Calm down bud, Model 3 stuff is amazing but there's no reason to ignore Mario 64 just because you personally prefer racing games/Sega.

>>2797687


b-b-ut I hate mario and nintendo argghghh!!!

>>2797687
The point was about hardware, bringing Mario 64 into this is absolutely retarded.

>>2797693

Okay, all hail Sega and Model 3!

happier?

>>2797680
I'm born 92 but there were never any arcades where I lived, I never saw them.

The games I'm talking about are old hunks of junks rendering a clone of Asteroids or shit in wireframe and advertising that shit as their gimmick.

A lot of people also just didn't pay attention to shit like Virtua Fighter because they didn't care about fighting games. Most people played games on consoles and computers where I'm from, seeing arcade machines was rare. I think there was a small mall out in the sticks/edge of town which had a pair of Sega machines, but they were either always broken or nobody ever bothered to empty out the coinbox. I think the broken one was a racing game so no sweat off my balls, the other one I think was Afterburner, it was either always hogged when I was there, or it wouldn't accept any more coins.

Sorry for not sharing your childhood and speaking from my own experience and observations.

>>2797694
yeah i'm ok with your backpedaling.

>>2797697

rude, and I was being nice to you.

mind these manners, anon.

>>2797697

He didn't backpedal because he never said anything bad about model 3.

You're just being an obnoxious fanboy here.

>>2797678
The difference is that Sega Model 3 cost something like $30 000 in 1996, and an N64 cost $200 in 1996.

>>2797324
>>2797328
>scrolling 2d
Everything's polygonal in-game. Star Cruiser was originally a sci-fi dungeon crawler for Japanese PCs, starting with mid-'80s PCs (PC-88, Sharp X1) and then moving to later models (PC-98, Sharp X68000). The developers, Arsys Soft, ported the game to Mega Drive and got a publishing deal with Masaya—the MD version gutted a bunch of content from the PC versions to save space, and the character art's different, but otherwise it's mostly intact.

By the way, these guys did >>2797323 too. And they made a sequel to Star Cruiser for PC-98 and FM Towns. Some of the devs later worked on Omega Boost when Arsys folded into SCEJ.

>>2797706
I'm not the nintendrone that named Mario 64 for no reason whatsoever, sorry.

>>2797721

Hey nice nintendo hateboner.

If only your actual dick was as big ;(

>>2797721
You know Nintendo just had a direct. You should be all over /v/ saying how Nintendo is finished.

>>2797727
>implying /v/ isn't Nintendrone central
At one point /vr/ was for people with actual knowledge and love of retro games, not Nintendo fanchildren.

>>2797721
>named Mario 64 for no reason whatsoever
>no reason
Or he brought it up as an example and in relation to his experience you cantankerous jizzgoblin.

>>2797730

So people with actual knowlegde and love of retro games aren't allowed to like Nintendo?

Also you reek of underage who just read some wiki about Sega's arcade hardware and feel the need to post well known information. You're not bringing anything new to the table, hon.

but again, nice Nintendo hateboner, it's always cute to see those.

>>2797721
I don't know what's more depressing, being a Nintendrone or an arcadefag.
Oh wait, at least Nintendo is actually alive while arcades stopped being relevant decades ago.

>>2797732
The point was just as retarded as "b-but arcades don't have muh RPGs!"

>>2797740
>arcades stopped being relevant decades ago
thank god for that, fucking hell there's nothing worse than the 1cc autists

>>2797740

Liking nintendo and arcades is both fine. In fact, N64 has some really good arcade-style games, Wave Race 64 is a great game and as already posted, its water effects where something that not even the precious Sega arcades had.

The problem isn't liking Nintendo or Sega, or Consoles or Arcades, the problem is being an obnoxious eat shitting fanboy, like
>>2797742
>>2797730

I'm betting he didn't even play arcades, he's just reading wikis online and being a poser.

>>2797739
Not at all, I like a lot of Nintendo games. But in my experience a lot of Nintendo fanboys are kids who only know about retro games through YouTube and have no actual knowledge of the subject.

Funny thing is i didn't even express hate for Nintendo, i just said bringing Mario 64 into a hardware-related discussion is dumb. You paranoid nintenkids are just insufferable.

>>2797757

And you think just because you copypaste some specs out of a wiki site you're knowledgeable?

You're really no better than said nintendo fanboys, on top of that you're a shitposter.

>>2797759
The discussion is about graphics of the time.

>>2797770

Let him have his tantrum, maybe he ran out of meds.

>>2797767
When did I do that?

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>>2797767
Nigger, I have been playing videogames for over 30 years... oh my god.

>>2797448
you do know there's still virtua fighter 2 and 3 tourneys, right ?

>>2797778
Honestly? I'm kind of surprised.

>>2797774

Shitposting? since you started with the "muh" and the "nintendrones" /v/-style buzzwording and memes.

Maybe if you approached the matter in a more adult, less shitposting manner, I would have taken your points more seriously, but as it stands, you're just a shitposting who is no better than the kids who watch Youtube.

otherwhise, why do you think you're knowledgeable? Just because you can mention some very well known games like Scud Race or Virtua Fighter? haha

>>2797782
Why? They have a tremendous amount of depth. It's sad that Sega has let the series fall by the wayside (of course) but they're still great games.

>>2797778
There are also SF2 and VS tourneys but I'm not deluded enough to think they're any relevant now.

nice, now the thread is derailing into FGC shitposting.

the ride never ends when OP is a legit shitposter

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>you will never be able to have discussions about retro video games without shitposting on an imageboard for vietnamese childrens cartoons

>>2797792
ST will always be relevant, theres a reason it always has a scene beside whatever the latest iteration is

>>2797320
>>2797321
>>2797323
These all look so bad it's impossible to imagine actually playing them. They're very hard to look at.

>>2798265
Back to /v/.

>>2797319
>Why is it that there seems to be a very popular opinion that 3d graphics started with 5th gen?

I think the popular opinion is that 3D graphics on *consoles started 5th gen.

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>>2797448

>>2797321

Wow that's cool. Why have I never heard of this.

>>2798356
I know right? It looks like a 32X game, except over a decade early. Crazy.