Generation Zero

>>33507962
When was trading added into development? If it was thought up during conceptualization or early on then I'd add it in.

forgot to remove exeggcutor which evolves through leaf stone

>>33507962
Sounds more like a shitty demo.
If it was a full release then it wouldn't play out like that at all. The trading aspect was a core idea behind why they choose to make pokémon. So there would either be paired versions from the start or there would be other reasons you can't get the whole dex in one run, like only one starter.

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>>33507981

>no alakazam
>no starmie
>no exeggutor
my nigga slowbro gets the spotlight

What regional bug and Nido would be more common than the other? Or would they have the same encounter rate?

>>33507962
Index number is a better springboard if you're going to guess what pokémon would be in the first pokémon game if it was cut short.
Many pokémon like the evolved Nidos, Exeggutor and Gengar are fairly early, so would probably make it. If you absolutely insist on the no trading/stone thing then they would just evolve normally.

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>>33507962
These would be the names of every Pokemon.

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>>33508029
pudding and custard

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>>33508029
>Karate
>Kungfo
>Judoh

>>33508069
Did you not know that's what they are called in Japanese?

>>33508029
Skullkraken was a great name. They should have kept that one.

>>33508097
seriously?
that's hilarious
thanks anon

>>33508003
magnemite, aerodactyl, porygon and geodude were introduced really late into development, so i'd delete them

>>33508003
also kangaskhan, lickitung and scyther were introduced really early in development

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>>33507962

>>33507975
>When was trading added
trading was literally THE reason why the game exists and why it is on the gameboy.

>>33508099
Edgy name for an edgy Pokémon.

I'd replace Porygon with Kangaskhan.
Like >>33508111 said, Porygon was added late into RG's development. Maybe an in-game teaser suggesting that Porygon is still in development would have been nice since it was man-made.

> There are no backsprites during Pokemon battles, although there are separate animations for outgoing and incoming attacks.
> The Ground, Ghost, and Dragon types do not exist yet. Rock and Normal mostly substitute for Ground, Psychic substitutes for Ghost, and dragon Pokemon do not exist yet.
> The structure of the game involves traveling to four major cities and challenging the Elite 4 members, who specialize in Water, Fire, Flying and Psychic Pokemon. Then the player can challenge the Champion, who uses a well-balanced team. Gym leaders do not exist.
> Pokemon Centers do not exist. Instead, the player stays at inns, which do charge a (not very significant) fee. However, you can rest for free at your house and at a few other select locations.
> The Spec. Atk. stat does not exist.
> There are no HMs, simply roadblocks that are removed as the player progresses through the story. The player does get to earn a bike, obtains a flashlight to navigate caves after defeating the first E4, and does control a boat over a single water route, however.
> TMs do not exist.
> There is only a single fishing rod in the game, and very few Pokemon that are exclusively available via fishing.
> Third-stage evolutions do not exist. All Bug-type Pokemon simply go from larval to mature forms.

>>33507962
The types are significantly reduced:

Normal
Fire
Water
Grass
Ground
Electric
Psychic
Poison
Fighting

Bug pokemon are Grass type
Rock pokemon are just Ground type
Ice pokemon are all part of Water type
No Ghost pokemon
No Dragons
No Flying type

>>33508318
Does this mean the Gastly and Dratini lines dont exist yet or do they just have different types

>>33507962
>Game takes place on a smaller region, maybe just half of Kanto
How about a Kanto that isn't so full of towns and cities? Just imagine Pewter City as a hilly plain with rocky areas near the mountains, Saffron surrounded by woods with one building and a few houses, or Cycling Road just being a water way.

>>33508216
Which mon

>>33508318
> The Spec. Atk. stat does not exist.
You mean "Special" doesn't exist? In gen 1, SpD and SpA were combined into a singular "Special" stat.

>>33509901
Gyarados

>>33508029
i wonder what the alternate universe where these names were kept is like

>>33508406
Everything seems sound except for the removal of Bug. Bug catching is pretty integral to the creation of what Pokemon is so I think that should stay. In fact, if I were to remove types here's how I'd do it.

>Staying
Normal, Fire, Water, Grass, Ground, Electric, Flying, Poison, Bug, Psychic

>Removed
Rock, Ice, Ghost, Dragon, Fighting

Rock pokemon in Gen 1 were all part Ground anyways, they can just go to that. Ice pokemon were in a similar boat and can just stay Water. There's only one Ghost line in Gen 1 anyways, they can be Poison. Likewise there's only one Dragon line, they can be Flying. There's a ton of fighting types, but fighting isn't so well defined, they can be Normal for this one.

Additionally, dual types are out for Gen 0. Every pokemon is a single type.

Finally, pokemon stats are reduced to HP, Physical, Special, and Speed.

I think this properly simplifies the game, but keeps it playable enough to be a game.

>>33508318
Dragon would exist, sort of. You'd fight an uncatchable Dragonite as a boss at some point in the game, who would be the only Pokemon in the game with that typing. It wasn't until the sequel that Dragonite was turned into a catchable Pokemon and dragon was made a normal typing.

This thread is stupid, the entire reason Pokemon came about was because Tajiri saw the Gameboy's Link Cable and thought it would be cool to have a monster-collecting game where you could trade Pokemon between your friends. So the concept of a Pokemon game without trading would have never existed.

>>33509809
No Dratini and Psychic/Poison Gastly, I guess.

>>33510028
Yea but its just a what if thread anyway
Lets say he still got inspired by the game link cable so he implemented it in red and green
Or maybe this gen 0 thing was played on another console that didnt have any means for connectivity

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We can go further back. This is Pokemon gen -1, and these are the only pokemon in the pokedex.
Which one is your favourite, /vp/?

>>33510074
Cow

>>33510074
Pokeball is by far my favorite pokemon. Fire Flower is good too, but only because he is such a good assist.

>>33508003
forgot to remove porygon and mew2

>>33509968
>It's the President Gore timeline.
No... Nonononono. Nope.

>>33510061
Even then, a Pokemon like Gengar wouldn't suddenly stop existing. It would simply just no longer require trading to evolve. It would be the same with all the stone evolutions. And the starters would probably just be available in the wild like regular Pokemon.

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>>33508029
>AH

>>33508029
Pidgeotto is Pidgeot
Pidgeot is also Pidgeot
Starmie is Staryu, and Starmie is Staryu.
Their translator was underpaid.

>>33508029
>Pidgeot
>Pidgeot
Uh...

>>33510127
I don't know why that poster cuts off every name at 7 characters but that isn't their intended names. You should only pay attention to the ones that are actually different.

>>33510003
You...I like you

>>33510113
We're going backwards here
They didn't "disappear" or "ceased to exist"
They just werent introduced yet because new evolution methods
And then come the new gen and theyre the new mons that come with that gen

>>33507962
You don't understand pokemom, trust me. Stick with ither shit.
Trade isn't there for double versions, but double version are there to stimulate trading. Also the original pokemon game wasn't a double version, Miyamoto suggested that, yet we know trading was already a thing because that's what Tajiri wanted.
>>33508177

>>33510167
You dont understand the point of the thread, trust me

>>33507962
>only balls are normal pokeballs and one masterball
>other balls havent been added yet

>>33510164
You're not going backwards with any reason though. You're just making shit up that sounds interesting in your head.
Pokémon like Gengar and the Nidos were early inclusions and removing them because you imagine stone/trade evolutions didn't exist instead of making them regular evolutions is absurd. On top of there being no way a pokémon game that didn't focus on training would ever be made.

>>33510134
Because Pokemon originally had a 7 character limit on names, so those are how they would have been displayed in battle. They increased the name size fairly late in localization.

>>33510074
>2017
>Still liking shell

>>33510182
>the Master Ball was actually a major point in gen 0
>every appearance since has just been a callback to it

>>33510176
The whole thread is retarded and shows how little you know about pokemon story, underage.

>>33510235
i bet you like bug

>>33510188
>You're just making shit up that sounds interesting in your head.
Isnt that what everyone does with fake leaks

>because you imagine stone/trade evolutions didn't exist instead of making them regular evolutions is absurd.
OP was probably going by how whenever a new crossgen evolution is introduced, it has to evolve in a way that is not possible in the previous gen. Like the magmarizer and electirizer

>>33510249
not that anon but this is a thread about a fictional gen 0 that never happened
so obviously it's different to what pokemon actually is

>>33510254
I am just saying that this thread is more like a "Wouldn't it be cool if there was a game before RG that ..." thread instead of a "How would a game before RB be?" thread.

>>33510188
>Gengar and Nidos were early inclusions
>because trading and the stones were thought of first you see
>trading and stones were never thought of
>these mons weren't thought of

>>33508318
>> There are no HMs, simply roadblocks that are removed as the player progresses through the story.
literally gen 7

>>33510265
Yes, the thread is clearly just pretending that Red and Green are a sequel to a game nobody played. It's similar to something like Earthbound, where everyone in the west played it before discovering it was the second game in the series. When you go back and see the first game, you're amazed at what hadn't been introduced to the formula yet.

>>33510074
They need to make these actual pokemon in gen 8

>>33510266
If this is your scenario then it isn't a gen 0 game at. You're just removing features randomly.

>>33510285
It's not.
You can very easily see the core ideas being similar between Mother 1 and 2. Here we're talking about removing trading for fuck's sake. That is the idea the whole series was built upon. In this thread people are ignoring the order shit actually happened in.

>>33508318
Better yet, only base set TCG types exist, with the same weaknesses.

Only dual types are those with flying.

>>33510307
That's because the production order doesn't matter. People are just comparing Pokemon to other RPG series and picking out features that feel like they'd have been added in a sequel. I can see some direct references to the evolution of Dragon Warrior Monsters, SMT, and the Digimojn World games in this thread.

>>33510003
I agree with everything except the removal of Fighting-type.

I think it provides good type match-ups across lots of types, and it makes the Normal-type category way too bloated.

We should make out the typings for everyone.

>>33510003
Okay but all grass except tangela were poison, just like with ice and rock, so i figure that can be lumped together too.

>>33510056
Nah, just say no silph scope so no dragon.

>>33510356
*No ghost.

Figure a general rule, any type that either has very few examples or piggybacks on another type is new to gen 1, just like Kalos had very few new fairies and only a handful of retcons that were also some other type.

>>33507962
>pre Silph monopoly Kanto
>balls are all made of apricot
>no man made pokémon like Muk or Porygon
>even more forest and grass everywhere
>even smaller towns
It would be a shitshow but an interesting one

>>33510389
Fairy was one of the more common types among gen VI mons.

>>33510167
Someone screencap this and post it in the cringe thread.

>>33510411
Pure fairy? There were like 2 lines and a legend. The rest were retcons

>>33508029
Kakoon is metapod
Metapod is kakuna

>>33510074
Psycho Bug best mon

>>33510433
You never said pure Fairy, just Fairy.
Sure there weren'tthat many, but that's because gen VI introduced very few pokémon in general. As far as I can tell Fairy is the most common typing in gen VI with 13 new mons. Other common types like Water, Grass, Normal and Dragon 9, 9, 8 and 9 representatives respectively. I haven't counted alternative formes or megas since I'm too lazy but you get the point.

>>33510433
>>33510463
Also 8 of them are mono Fairy, which is by far the most common monotype there.

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>>33507962

>>33507962
>Starter trio is eliminated as well, since completing the three of them requires trading

Nigga what the fuck

>A game that is about removing existing things and features
Ah so a proper pokemon sequel then. Nice.

>>33508003
Arcanine should be part of the legendary birds, possibly replacing Moltres

The small roster was padded by a bunch of Pokemon who looked identical to other Pokemon, but had different names and typings. All of these were dropped from RG and never spoken of again. (except Nidoran female, which somehow survived)

>>33508029
>Digda

Thats actually the german name of diglett

>>33510530
It is also the Japanese. Many of the names on the poster are much closer or the same as the Japanese names compared to the final names.

>>33510478
I suppose we could always go the Yellow route.

Heck, maybe hand out starters instead of badges.

>>33510074
Who would they be closest to?

Seel
Voltorb
Pidgey
??? (there is actually no bug like this in Gen 1)
Clefairy
Omanyte
Pikachu
Bellsprout
Tauros
Rhydon
Ekans

>>33510636
Always looked like Beedrill to me.

>>33510517
Yokai watch?

>>33510636
It's beedrill

So I've been taking this concept a bit more seriously than I should and I've been taking ideas from everyone in this thread. I think it'd be fun to create a short 3-4 hour Pokemon rom hack with all of these ideas.

>Players can only have a certain number of pokemon on them, I'm thinking in the area of 3 to 5. I'm leaning towards 5 or 4.
>No dual types
>No trading
>No evolutions outside of straight levels, so no trading evolution, no stone evolutions, etc
>Smaller map with less gyms
>No elite 4, just a victory road with the champion at the end
>No safari zone
>No legendary pokemon, just a single Dragonite that you can't catch
>Less types, removal of Ice, Rock, Ghost, and Dragon
>No starters, every player gets an Eevee at the very beginning

>>33510770
>everybody gets an eevee starter
>no stone evos

>>33510844
Yep. You just get a boring little shit that can't do anything. It's a burner pokemon.

>>33510770
The entire point of a romhack is that you either improve the base game or you make something that's different. You're not supposed to remove features from the base game.

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>>33508029
>Dragoon
>Dragyn
>Dragoni

>>33510125
Fun fact, Pidgeot in Japanese is Pijotto, which can be transliterated as Pidgeot or Pidgeotto. That's probably why the trainer in the first movie calls his Pidgeot a Pidgeotto. Translator probably didn't know pokemon very well.

>>33510770
>no stone evolutions
>everyone starts with eevee

Do you hate us all?

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>>33510324
I REALLY like this idea. It provides a good balance between types and leaves room for obvious additions in Red and Green.

If this game really had come out, I feel like Bug Pokemon would likely have been Grass type, since they share so many weaknesses. Ghost would be Psychic, and it even accounts for the lack of balance between Ghost and Psychic in Gen 1.
Poison being Psychic seems like a bit of a stretch, but it would ensure balanced match-ups.
Ice could very easily be Water, and Fighting and Rock being Ground works really well.

I am against having dual types, as it gets in the way of such a basic typing system, so I propose that we add in BIRD type, since we know for a fact that it was present in early development, and was eventually changed to FLYING.
Naturally this type would be a simplified FLYING type, weak to electric but strong against grass. Additionally, only basic bird Pokemon would have this type. The Pidgey, Fearow, and Doduo lines, as well as Farfetch'd if it happens to make the cut.

>>33510403
that would actually a pretty dope idea for a fangame

Gen 0 would be a Steam Early Access Gen 1 game. Cuts off after Lavender Tower.

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>>33510636
>>33510658
>>33510730
It's this guy
Which is pretty much proto-beedrill

>>33510923
adding on to the idea

>Villains of the game are either Silph Co. who is trying to expand their corporation (to hold a monopoly over the region) or nu-Plasma
>Silph Co's main building would be the only place to catch manmades like Muk
>fossil/starters in the wild, since they wouldn't be endangered due to silph

>>33510916
Or just make Poison Pokemon Grass type like they were in the TCG from Gens 1-3. Works better since there's so many Grass/Poison Pokemon, anyway.

>>33510952
probably not the fossil mon

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>>33510983
You're right, that does work better. Especially since Grimer and Muk would pollute water, but be sterilized by fire.

>>33511004
So what are these types called?

Fighting, Fire, Electric, Grass, Water, Normal, Psychic, and Bird?

>>33510074
I like Shell personally, great Special and helps take down tanks like Dragon and Seal

only real shitmon imo is Snake

>>33511016
Everything but FIGHTING makes sense. I figure that could be called GROUND since most of the Pokemon in the group will be of that type and have those properties.

>>33511004
why not jut use the tcg types

>Grass:
Grass
Poison
Bug

>Fire:
Fire

>Water:
Water
Ice

>Lightning:
Electric

>Fighting:
Fighting
Rock
Ground

>Psychic:
Psychic
Ghost

>Colorless:
Normal
Flying
Dragon

>>33510889
It's probably like Dragon Warrior Monsters, where your first monster is an ordinary Slime that there's no real point in keeping after the first few dungeons other than sentimental value.

>>33511084
In the TCG, normal types were weak to fighting, while normal birds were resistant to fighting. I understand the logic of splitting them.

>>33511002
true

i also had another idea - manmades will show up, but with different types/movesets, similar to alola forms, and you'll only be able to get their regular forms lategame

ex: pure Water Grimer line, pure Fire Koffing line, Normal Trubbish line

>>33510770
Keep Dragon for the sole Dragonite boss. Except make it a "this obviously isn't supposed to be used for anything but this boss" typing that resists everything.

>>33511143
>supposed to be a simpler more barebones version of RB
>adds more pokémon

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>>33511084
Originally I was thinking that, but as >>33511108 said, FLYING are resistant to FIGHTING. It also adds coverage for ELECTRIC types and prevents GRASS from only being weak to FIRE.

Additionally, we know BIRD was an early enough addition to be included, thanks to MISSINGNO.
On that note, I'm personally in favor of re-implementing this evolution line.

>>33511161
fair enough

here's what i have for ideas so far

>Pre Silph monopoly Kanto
>apricorn balls
>no manmades until very late in the game (if at all)
>small towns big routes
>Silph Co as villains, using either manmades or random mons
>starters in the wild, you go catch your starter like a man
>uncatchable bosses - i'm thinking Porygon line or something like Mewtwo or Genesect, something manmade and powerful

>>33511004
>>33511033
>>33511084
So what we're working with is Ground(Fighting, Rock, Ground), Fire, Electric, Grass(Grass, Bug, Poison), Water(Water, Ice), Normal(Normal, Dragon), Psychic(Psychic, Ghost), and Bird with no dual typing.

In total we've got, Ground, Fire, Electric, Grass, Water, Normal, Psychic, and Bird.

>>33511237
yeah pretty much

>>33511184
probably not gonna be Kanto but some other less-developed region, i'm not too sure yet

>>33511184
Porygon or Mewtwo would make the most sense.

We know Silph created Porygon anyway, and its concept takes "manmade" to the extreme, requiring no organic tissue or materials since it's purely computer code. It uses unique moves like Conversion and Sharpen, so it definitely works as a unique encounter.
Meanwhile, Gen Zero could also feature Mewtwo's escape from the scientists' lab. It's extremely likely that those scientists were working under Silph, as Blaine was part of the team and we know he has no ties to Team Rocket. Mewtwo's escape in Gen Zero explains why it's hiding in Cerulean Cave for Red to find later on.
Additionally, the "corrupt" division of Silph could leave to form what we now know as Team Rocket under Giovanni (because, let's face it, he's a businessman). Obviously Blaine would have left entirely to pursue a spot in the newly organized Pokemon League.

Blaine's inclusion opens up potential for pre-League gym leaders being story NPCs.
Erika could be heading a flower shop in Celadon, while Lt.Surge could be on shore leave in Vermilion taking a short break from the ongoing war, which could also be a plot point.

>>33511237
why not call electric lightning like in the tcg as before there was electricity people must have called them lightning types
this changed when technology became an everyday thing
but in the countryside and in less developed places most people still call it lighning

>>33511237
To add to this here's the type match ups. Types not listed are assumed to be neutral.

>Ground
Resist - Fire, Normal
Weak - Grass, Psychic, Water

>Fire
Resist - Fire, Grass
Weak - Water, Ground

>Electric
Resist - Electric, Water, Bird
Weak - Ground

>Grass
Resist - Grass, Water, Ground
Weak - Fire, Bird

>Water
Resist - Water, Fire
Weak - Grass, Electric

>Normal
Resist - Psychic
Weak - Ground

>Psychic
Resist - Normal, Ground
Weak - Grass, Psychic

>Bird
Resist - Ground, Grass
Weak - Electric, Water

Feel free to critique. I'm sure I fucked up and the balance is wonky.

>>33511288
checked

Porygon would probably be a recurring boss, given that it
>has evolutions (later on, you'd have Porygon2 and Porygon Z as bosses)
>frail as fuck

>>33510770
Here's what I'd do:
>gyms, as we know them, haven't been thought up by the developers yet
>instead, the plot is a very bare-bones "the legendary birds cause humanity trouble in some unspecified way and you must stop them" gameboy RPG story
>there's a pre-cursor to gyms where you have to fight a trainer who uses the same element in order to get access to the area where the bird is
>the birds can talk for some reason (although only say like one line of dialog right before you battle them) and can't be used by the player
>the map sorta-kinda looks like Kanto, but the only towns that exist are clearly prototype versions of Pallet, Viridian, Cerulean, Vermillion, Cinnabar Island, and the Indigo Plateau
>Dragonite is the final boss, resists every type, has ridiculous coverage, and too much HP

>>33511297
I don't know how I feel about Electric resisting water. Obviously it shouldn't be weak, but probably neutral.

Everything else looks great. I really like the mutual resist on Normal and Psychic, as well as the self-weakness on Psychic. It lays the ground work for the eventual Ghost split.

>>33511004
I would go more for:

>basic
Normal
>elements
Grass
Fire
Water
Electric
>other
Ground
Fight
Psychic

Remember, we're making Generation Zero, it's meant to be simplistic and not make 100% sense. You shouldn't be ironing out all the problems.

>>33511315
>later on, you'd have Porygon2 and Porygon Z as bosses
I'd advise against this. Those two Pokemon didn't appear until after Gen One, so it wouldn't make sense to have them in a pre-Gen One game.

As a reoccurring boss though, I'm in favor of. Silph executives could use them. The stats could also be boosted as an additional threat, since they're likely not available to the player until very late in the game, if at all. And it would make sense for Gen One to lower them back down as they'd be readily obtainable.

>>33511293
interesting

so as silph expanded so did the use of the term electric

>>33511335
Except we know these typings were present in early game development, and inspired quite a lot of the original Pokemon designs. The original purpose of this thread is making a game as close as possible to early Red and Green development.
At the time Pokemon was in development, Game Freak already had a few games under their belt so they had at least some idea of what they were doing. In that case, it makes sense that Game Freak would have laid down a basic, balanced type system before making tweaks like adding Ghost and Poison later on, possibly before they could possibly re-balance. I would imagine the original type system was more balanced than the finalized one in Red and Green for this reason. Although obviously not perfect.

At its core, Pokemon's battle system is based around elemental types and their interactions and always has been.
I'm all for simplification, but fucking around with the formula too much is a terrible idea and removes a lot of the identity that Pokemon has.

>>33511400
>I'm all for simplification, but fucking around with the formula too much is a terrible idea and removes a lot of the identity that Pokemon has.
That's the joke. It's a tongue in cheek pre-gen 1 Pokemon game that was "made" before Pokemon had any real identity.

>>33511418
With Pokemon very obviously inspired by their respective types. Lumping them all into a single type category would be dumb.

>>33510074
Is there art somewhere where someone tried to make these icons into actual Pokemon?
Would be really interesting.

>>33511439
Yeah.
Seal, Voltorb, Pidgey, Clefairy, Omanite, Pikachu, Bellsprout, Tauros, Kangaskhan, Dratini, and some weird bug, probably >>33510949

>>33511184
>apricorn balls
>clearly specialized balls that were added in GS to add more variety
>appearing in a game before RB who had very simple Pokéball to Masterball rankings
That sounds more like a RB prequel than a game actually made before RB.

I feel like we should be using this list to determine what Pokemon are and are not included.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_index_number_(Generation_I)

It looks like quite a few trade and stone evolutions were implemented early on.

>>33510916
Base set poison was grass

>>33511524
Right, we want to create an early development pokemon, but we don't wanna go straight down the list and end at an arbitrary number. This is largely a thought experiment. We can include a handful of stone or trade evolution pokemon, but turn them into normal evolutions. For example. I was thinking we remove either the Nidoking or Nidoqueen line and just make the final form a normal evolution for Gamefreak to tweak when they add the other half of the line in our theoretical timeline.

>>33511554
It's been updated.

>>33511583
Oh yeah, I was thinking something similar.
No stone or trade evolution methods, but the evolved forms remain available.

Something I'm also intrigued about is the inclusion of Gen 2 Pokemon on that list.
It's well known that some Gen 2 Pokemon were present in early development of Red and Green, and the fact that those forms of MissingNo (which only indicates partially formatted Pokemon data) converts to those specific Pokemon when traded to Gen 2 is extremely telling.

Similarly, some Gen 3 Pokemon were originally present in Gen 2 (Jirachi being the most infamous I believe).

>>33511640
>No stone or trade evolution methods, but the evolved forms remain available.
Assuming this is how it was from the start, it could explain some stone-evolved Pokemon like Clefable and Arcanine having blank level up move tables.

>>33510949
Pretty much Ledyba.

>>33511657
That is intentional. It is so the player has a choice between getting a powerhouse early, or wait for good moves.

>>33511462
that's the point you dipshit

>>33510543

I'm referring to the fact that you don't need to trade for stage two starters you fucking autist

>>33511759
The thread was clearly intended for discussing what a game made before gen I would be like, not what a prequel would be like.

>>33511783
But getting all of them requires trading. That's the original point.

>>33511524
>Ho-oh came before Mewtwo
fuck

>>33511004
>>33511451
So we have
{W} - Seel, Omanyte
{L} - Voltorb, pikachu
{G} - Bellsprout, Beedrill, Ekans
{F} - Rhyhorn, Omanyte
{C} - Dratini, pidgey, clefairy, tauros
{P} - ???
{R} - ???

Where are all the fire and psychic sprites?

Also, what sprite did humanoids like machoke & mr mime use?

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Alright so here's the Pokedex I ended up with after taking some thoughts in this thread into account. We've got a toal of 97 catchable pokemon and 101 total pokemon in game. The birds and Dragonite can't be caught and act more like boss pokemon.

Important things to note is that I removed all trade evolutions and most stone evolutions. I kept in mind the time certain pokemon were actually put in the game, but only very loosely. I removed most pokemon that are obtained through in game choices or in game trades. Additionally I removed most, but not all safari zone pokemon. I also of course removed the starters.

What changes do you guys think should be made?

>>33511949
>Also, what sprite did humanoids like machoke & mr mime use?
I believe they used the "monster" sprite like Rhyhorn.

Funny because pkmn haa gotten so bad that removing features from gen 1 is appealing

>>33511994
>only the bugs are 3 stage
Interesting.
More balanced too.

>>33511994
Interesting

what's going to happen in terms of moves etc.?

>>33512106
No idea quite yet. I'm messing around with this shit in between other stuff so I'm kinda on one track at a time. My first thought though is that the moves, like the pokemon and their typing must be simplified. I'm also a little for the removal of Surf, Flash, and Cut for HMs. I'm thinking all water pokemon must be fished up and all surf puzzles removed. I'm thinking some basic Strength puzzles and Fly for convenience are all that's needed.

>>33512150
>Surf, Flash, Cut removed as HMs

YES

Surf could be given to a few water mons as a level up move (Psyduck line, Tentacool line, Seel line, Horsea line, Lapras) but fuck Cut and Flash

Before you guys do more dumb shit like almost completely ignore pokémon index numbers just know that moves have index numbers too.

>>33511172

>re-implementing

citation needed

>>33511994
>restore Wigglytuff and Clefable
>call the cave leading to the final boss "Moon Cave"
>Wigglytuff, Clefable, and Nidoking can only be found inside
>some NPC outside mentions that the cave does strange things to the Pokemon who go inside
>there's no way to evolve Jigglypuff, Clefairy, or Nidorino, so catching their evolutions here is the only way to get them
The idea being that gen 1 later realized this idea was stupid and included a limited item to properly evolve them. Hence why you can only find four of them in-game.

>>33512686
Even if this is pre-gen one, I don't like the idea of making the player catch another Pokemon simply because they can't evolve the one they have. That's just poor game design, and I think Game Freak would have recognized that early on.

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>>33512716

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>>33508029
New banner

>>33510866
>Dragoni
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmvc4CMWkEw

>>33508029
okay Ess and Kargo are fucking adorable names

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>>33508029

>tfw when i had this poster as a kid but thought the different names + misprints meant is was fake shit and stuffed it in a box somewhere

would this have been worth anything

when the pokemania unleashed a ton of bootleg shit and oddly rare collectibles were washing up in hobby shops collectively and since it was so new people were blind to the potential value of any of it

>>33511994
Re-add Raichu, Wigglutuff, Vulpix, Porygon and Mr. Mime while removing Grimer, Onix, Jynx, Electabuzz, and Magmar

>>33512716
>That's just poor game design,
Eh you grind them into candies to feed to their replacement

>>33512855
I like it.

If we really want to go back to the beginning, pick a handful that could feasibly be bug-like and turn the pokeballs into nets.

I think the gen 0 would be better and more realistic if it had only fakemon and unused concept pokes with a drastically different style similar to concept art of RBG. The dex size would be either smaller or the same as XY, to make it seem more limited. The place where Gen 1 might be only set in a small island or a very small part of Tokyo region.

>>33514175
>a hack based on early official game development
>using fakemon
dropped

>>33514193
I thought the point is that it has nothing to do with official game development at all. It's just a hypothetical "imagine if Red and Green were actually sequels" thing.

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>>33511640
>Similarly, some Gen 3 Pokemon were originally present in Gen 2 (Jirachi being the most infamous I believe).
woah. i never knew this. sauce pls

>>33511640
>and the fact that those forms of MissingNo (which only indicates partially formatted Pokemon data) converts to those specific Pokemon when traded to Gen 2 is extremely telling.
No, it isn't. When a Pokemon was removed, it left an empty space which did turn into Missingno. However, there wasn't an "undelete" button that would restore the removed Pokemon back to where it was. When a gen 2 Pokemon was added to the game, whether it was planned to be in gen 1 or not, they just shoved it in whatever space happened to be open.

If you trade a Missingno to GS and it turns into Scizor, it doesn't mean that the Missingno was sitting in the slot were Scizor was removed. It just means that they happened to put Scizor in the same slot that Missingno occupies. There's zero correlation between what the glitch Pokemon turn into when traded and what Johto Pokemon almost made the cut for gen 1.

>>33508029
Ladish, what a hooker

bumo

>>33507962
Game takes place in Kanto, but some cities are under developed. Some are still classified as towns rather than cities.

Giovanni plays a major role, and isn't evil. (Yet)

New Team called Team Zeros (Pronounced 'Zeh-Ros') who are similar to street thugs and aren't funded. They just steal Pokemon, fancy things, etc. Many are just poor Kanto citizens looking for a quick way to make money.

Gyms don't exist yet, and there is no Indigo League. But are instead replaced by Trials. The elite 4 is still early in development, and is treated similar to a tournament rather than a gauntlet.

Kantos landscape and culture at this time is post-war. Many areas are destroyed, some are polluted. The Koffing line and the Grimer are considered a recently discovered species at this point.

Lt. Surge is hidden in a secret bunker inside the Pokemon Mansion on Cinnabar Island. You have to help him escape from Team Zeros who wanted to torture him.

Lance is your Rival.

MissingNo. is revealed to be a Type: Null but isn't catchable.

>>33515675
There's a lab in the mansion that is currently sealed off.

what about your rival?
is it still blue?

>>33517908
No rival, maybe a recurring villain, maybe someone else trying to stop/capture the legendaries. Something more like Eusine.

>>33518061
Interesting

I feel like his team should change depending on what legendary he's going to capture (ex: carries a Water type for moltres, but switches it out in favor of an Ice type for Zapdos)

>>33511994
There should be a Porygon Beta battle in the game.

>>33515712
What

>>33518187
Thats what i'm planning for my game

>>33510916
In early TCG, Poison was Grass, not Psychic.

>>33512855
tru

>>33511994
You gotta replace Nidoking with Nidoran F and Nidorina nigga

>>33511994
Stats are now
>HP
>Physical
>Special
>Speed

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>>33518187
I like the idea, but I'm not sure how to implement it. I'm thinking this game takes place like 8 years or so before the timeline in RBY. In my version of the game Mewtwo and Porygon are yet to be made and would be only mentioned in the game. In fact I've got several ideas about how to treat the game.

For example look at this map I fucked with for a quick second. All parts in red won't be making it in and will be cut off. I'm taking this from an early access demo point of view. I'm considering 4 gyms and 1 champion fight at the end of victory road. Elite 4 and the other gyms will be introduced later. For now I'm thinking Brock, Misty, Lt. Surge, and Erika will be in as the Ground, Water, Electric, and Grass gyms. The champion I'm thinking will either be Lance, Oak, or Giovanni. Lance would be a Bird trainer, Oak would be assorted, and Giovanni would be Normal.

Reasons for a lot of the bottom zones being cut off would largely be due in part to construction and recent tidal damage. In my version of Gen 0 Saffron would still be under construction as a promised, City of the Future. Fuschia City would still be hidden in the forest and dealing with a recent hurricane and Pallet would just be a research outpost for Professor Oak that isn't surrounded by a town quite yet. To go with everything else, Cycling Road would be a new concept currently being constructed.

>>33518348
This is about a Pokemon game that came OUT before RBY, not a game SET before RBY. Stop getting them confused. The idea is for the GAME to be technologically inferior, not the setting.

>>33518355
I think it should be set before RBY too. There'd be more of a reason to actually play it if it were.

>>33518365
It wouldn't matter at all if this game came out before gen I.

>>33518264
No, they are
>HP
>PP
>Attack
>Defense
>Speed

Moves have no PP, but they require PP to use, where weak moves require less PP than stronger ones. Pokémon can only have two individual moves, but you can always use "Pound" (a 30 BP typeless move, which does not require any PP) or "Dodge" (high priority, but can be outspeeded by Quick Attack, gives +33 % accuracy for the current turn and fills some PP)

>>33518365
The idea of a "Pokémon demo" with less content sounds hella interesting, we don't need more "what if" romhacks

>>33518395
>accuracy
I meant evasion, sorry

>>33518395
This is awful, please don't do this. I don't hate it conceptually, but adding in new features doesn't mesh with the idea at all.

>>33518417
This is how the most other RPGs at that time worked. Individual PP for moves were invented by the Pokémon series.

>>33518406
Why can't it be both? Some of gen I's story elements, such as gyms, could be excluded with something easier and simpler. Also, it would take place a while before gen I so much of the advanced technology would be missing too.

>>33518434
I'm not saying it's not plausible, I'm saying it clashes with the "RBY but less" vibe.

>>33518443
Because the butchered dex would enter in conflict with the story, many of the removed pokémon would still exist in a prequel and explaining why they aren't around or why certain characters are using the wrong pokémon would be a massive pain, the idea of a gen 1 prequel on its own isn't bad but it works better as its own thing

>>33518395
That PP idea would be a great future game concept.

>>33518348
I would have a simplistic region like this section in the picture.

>Start in Viridian
>Ground Gym (Pewter)
>Water Gym (Cerulean)
>Electric Gym (Vermilion)
>Grass Gym (Celadon)
>Psychic Gym. (Saffron)

A normal grass route west of Celadon leads back through Viridian through Victory Road to the Pokemon Champion. No E4, just a Gym of mixed-type trainers.

>Champion Gym (mixed team)

And you win!

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>>33518594

>>33518458
>stones don't exist for the same reason the Dusk Stone, Ice Stone, Sun Stone etc. don't exist in gen I
>trading hasn't been invented by Bill yet
>Safari Zone not set up

Solved all continuity problems

>>33518630
>>33518594
While I like the smaller and simply map, I was trying to avoid having to create new areas. Could just have Diglet cave as the way back to Viridian and have Vermillion as the last city that the player visits. Get rid of the underground paths and just have players walk from Cerulean to Saffron to Celadon.

Gym progression would be, Ground(Pewter), Water(Cerulean), Grass(Celadon), Psychic(Saffron), Electric(Vermillion). Then the player goes through Diglet Cave and ends up back in Viridian to take on the Champion Gym on Victory Road. Should Giovanni, Lance, or Oak be the leader of the last gym? I'm leaning Giovanni.

>>33518703
Trading not being invented is still idiotic given that it is literally the foundation of the franchise.

>>33518721
Gym progression should have Viridian as the first and then just push the rest up on rank.
You know, since we actually have evidence from Sugimori that this was the original intention.

The "gyms" should be renamed something else. Kanto should exist in a state of pre-Sylph, so the Pokemon League isn't a huge corporate function yet.

Instead of having highly technological puzzles, they should take place inside natural dungeons with wild Pokemon and trainers, with the "leader" at the end. There should be one gym for each of these
>>33511004

>Ground: a cave
>Fire: a volcano
>Electric: a power plant
>Grass: a forest
>Water: a big water cave
>Normal: a prototype "gym"
>Psychic: a haunted house
>Bird: the roof of a tower

>>33518740
I don't hate this idea, but would the player start in Pallet or Viridian and who would the gym leader be?

>>33518721
It was originally oak, and I did like the full circle/plot twist that presented, student overgrowing the master.

>>33518765
Why not have them start in Lavender? It's the only other "town" in Gen I. Have them progress through the game in a different order and then imply that Pallet and Route 1 were established before gen I.

Maybe give the routes path names and imply that the numbered route system was established once the region became urbanized. Make the routes more natural and a little more challenging to navigate.

>>33518762
Trials were presented as an all-new addition for SM. Them having existed in an earlier game wouldn't make sense.

>>33518797
A lot of "new" ideas in Pokémon are scrapped old ones they found a way to make work though.

>>33518797
Trials could be a cultural/traditional coming of age ceremony which is replaced once the Pokemon League sets up in a region.

I like this idea. Any hackers who can make this happen?

>>33514223
>use and make your own pokeballs
>nvm lol you dont catch wild pokemon

>>33508029
>Esskargo
>Attlantis
It just hit me like 20 years later Jesus, I don't have a Slowmo slow enough for this.

>>33520998
someone ITT is already making one

>>33521980
Yeah, the going's slow, but I'm pretty set on the maps I'm gonna use, the moves I'm gonna remove, and the Pokemon that will be getting cut. I'm thinking I'm going with 4 gyms and starting in Lavender town. The idea of the game is that Gamefreak has whipped up a sort of demo mid way through development so some pokemon are done and some maps are done, but some things are missing like surfing, flash, cut, bottom half of the map, dual types, and advanced evolution methods.

I'm going with the Ground, Fire, Electric, Grass, Water, Normal, Psychic, and Bird typings. I've decided to keep Charmander and Charmeleon because the game is lacking in fire type diversity without him, but he won't be a starter. Don't know how fun this game is going to be, but it's a fun experiment and I'm having fun trying to think backwards with this.

>>33507962
This image makes me wish there was a "pokemon chess" like game
Various pokemon on a board with different tile moves and abilities and type advantage

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>>33522070
pokemon duel exists

bumo

>>33512855
Bethoveen?

>>33518762
>>Water: a big water cave
What if Cerulean's "gym" was set up in Cerulean cave, before Mewtwo fled there and caused strong Pokemon to appear?

>>33512855
nice
now make it 300x100

>>33518762
I dunno, that sounds like a better idea than simple gyms. And the idea is to be regressive with the layout of the region.

>>33507962
There was a pokemon before gen 1. Robotrek

>>33507962
Literally my mom's Pokemon Go.

>>33524174
fug. i just looked that up

Alright, so I'm trying to decide which types to simplify some pokemon to. As people who follow the thread know we're going with the TGC+Bird typing system. So poison, bug, and grass are just going to be grass type. Additionally, we're getting rid of dual types for this so Butterfree and Pidgey will be Grass and Bird type for example. A lot of these changes are simple and easy, obviously the Rock/Ground pokemon will be straight ground. Here's the pokemon giving me trouble.

Should Zubat/Golbat be Grass or Bird pokemon? In my eyes Zubat is more defined by his ability to fly than his poison nature so I'd go with Bird.

Should Jynx be a Water or Psychic type? I'm leaning Psychic

Should Gastly/Haunter be Grass or Psychic type? Since Ghost is lumped with Psychic and Poison is lumped with Grass we've got an interesting problem. Psychic makes more sense in my opinion.

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>>33524049
sure

>>33525395
I think it's easy enough to just look at their TCG types, so the Gastly line is all Psychic. If you really want to change some, like Zubat from Grass to Bird, then I would only do a few as exceptions

>>33525395
Zubat line should be Birds since he's more defined by his ability to fly

Jynx and Gastly line should both be Psychic

>>33526032
>Implying bats are birds

>33526782
(you)

>>33526782
In an old African myth bats are evil birds who had their feathers taken away for trying to trick some sky god or some shit like that.

>>33526837
Source on this?

>>33527137
From my memory banks. You'd have to google it. I read it somewhere back in High School and I might be just imagining things, but I'm almost certain it's an actual myth.

>>33527175
you're full of shit, everyone knows bats are bugs.

>>33510770
Do you actually know anything about Pokemon romhacking? Hacking gen 1 beyond simple changes is hard as shit, because drag and drop tools don't exist for it like they do for gen 3 (aside from a map editor that will fuck the whole game up if you try to edit any area with scripted events).

>>33528347
What if you hacked gen 3 but replaced all the textures and shit with gen 1 style stuff

>>33510770
do it!
a mini pokemon game, like a decent demo.
>>33511146
this is good

>>33528347
I know a decent amount, but I'm not an expert. I know messing with hex editing is a pain in the ass. Some things like changing the starting point, starter pokemon, available pokemon and moves, and other various shit is pretty simple. The things I'm not excited to tinker with is changing the types, their effectiveness, and the base stats of pokemon.

>>33527527
Nahh theyre pigs
Look at their noses

>>33530109
no they're moths because in some native central american and caribbean languages moths and bats share the same name

>>33530677
but moths are just night butterflies

>>33531188
some moths come out during the day and some butterflies come out at night

>>33522028
Bird-type might be a canon gen 0 idea, but it makes no sense to limit a type purely to birds. I'd call it Flying type and be done with it.

Otherwise, you could call it Air type. I like the idea of the four elements (Grass, Fire, Water, Air) in the original game.

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>>33508029
>Hocus
>Pocus
>Alakaza

>>33512093
I think you missed Pidgeot and Nidoking

I hate Gen 1. It's mostly new evolutions of Gen 0 pokemons.

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>>33511994
Assuming the types are Normal, Ground, Flying, Grass, Electric, Fire, Water and Psychic...

>>33531442
>water snorlax

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>this thread
>all these anons saying that gen 0 is gen 1 with less features and is beta version of gen 1
>pre-sequel of everything on RB
The idea sounded great at first, but this ended up being a shitty idea once you get what others are saying. This is just literally RB the pre-sequel. Along with reduced types, and more limited features. It would've been just been better if the whole game just set in a smaller region, with some monsters as the majority, and single evolution gen 1 pokemon.

In that way, it would've been more authentic and more realistic representation of gen 0.

Cubone should evolve into Kangaskhan.

>>33531471
This, what it should be is the Pokemon we see in prototype sketches along with other fanmade designs that match them in order to pad the length a bit.

I'd be much more interested in a game that uses all of the prototype designs from all generations.

>>33531463
Whoops. You know damn well I just forgot to write Normal over Snorlax...

>>33508029
>Flareon
>Jolteon
>Vaproeo

>>33532382
Character limits

>>33531442
Normal muk?

>>33531480
Or at least certainly not from graveler.
At best if not standalone or Cubone relative it's a Rhyhorn relative.

>>33512150
What about having surf as an innate ability for all water types that doesnt require a move slot?

>>33532468
Yeah without Poison type I'm not sure what type it should be. Any ideas?

>>33507962
Might as well put in some prototype Pokémon in their as well or maybe some gen 2 Pokémon that were planned to be in Red and Blue

>>33531480
stop

>>33533225
We decided on Grass for most Poison types, but I'm here to say I'm removing the Grimer and Koffing line. With the current lay out of the map there's just no room for them and they really make the limited pokedex pretty grass heavy.

>>33533248
I was actually thinking this. The teddiursa line and the slugma line were pretty early additions that were removed pretty late into development. I think they fit the Gen 1 aesthetic a lot and really fill out some roles that are left wanting in the original game and would really fit with the Gen 0 idea.

Sneasal, Shuckle, and Heracross were also very early ideas, but I'm less keen on them just based on the single type restrictions and the lack of ice or dark type.

For a quick reminder you can look here to see Pokemon originally intended to be in red and blue and the order they were included in the game.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_index_number_(Generation_I)

>>33534051
Makes sense. Though what about the Koffing line? Or is that list not your intended list at all?

>>33534085
It's a little bit of a mix. I don't want to just go straight down the line and add them in order. It doesn't really fit with the whole demo idea either. The game has to be reasonably put together even for a pre-Gen 1 experiment. The issue is Muk and Grimer were added pretty early on and it feels strange to cut them, but they really don't fit with the Lavender -> Viridian path I have in mind. Fuschia, Cycling Road, Cinnabar, and Pallet won't be in the game and although it's possible to move the pokemon to different areas we have to be careful not to fill some areas with too many Pokemon. I'm trying to keep the Pokedex sub-100.

>>33508029

They forgot to fix MrMime's name

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>>33534051
For the last time, the gen 2 Pokemon's index numbers mean nothing. There were a bunch of unused index numbers from removed gen 1 Pokemon, so they just stuffed random gen 2 Pokemon into those numbers. Pic related should make that obvious.

>>33534254
Then we won't do it. I was under the assumption that they were planned to be in, but didn't make the final cut.

>>33534268
No, hence why almost all of the gen 2 Pokemon are in the Pokedex order.

>>33531471
Speculating and discussing how a game before RG would have been based on the information we have about the development was a nice idea.
The thread died when someone thought it would be a good idea to make this into an actual game and started discussing complex storylines and new mechanics. Completely missing the point that the game was to be made before RG.

Not to mention, given how badly RG was coded, a game rushed out before that would be a glitch-ridden mess barely playable.