Somebody can try analyse this?

>>33500012

- speed because of trick room

>>33500012

I'm serious, what's the deal?

>>33500012
Typing is part of it 8 resists + 2 Immunites is better than 6 resists + 1 immunity. It becomes even better when you consider 2 weaknesses vs 4.

Even with that though, you have to consider how common each type is for resist and weakness, and Celesteela wins there too.

Recovery is also an issue. An AV user usually wans some form of recover (Like Drain Punch on Conkeldurr, or Regenerator for Tangrowth) so Incinerorars longevity takes a hit there. Celesteela can run Lefties and use Leech Seed for sustain too.

Stealth Rock weakness is already an issue for fire types, and having 25% taken off while tou can't restore it really drives his longevity down. Celesteela is neutral to it and can gen that back after 2 turns of lefties.

There are a plethora of things, probably more than what I just listed. That being said, you could probably build a team that relies on its strengths and covers up its weaknesses.

>>33500393

I understand, thanks

but if we use bulk up set or swords dance set with leech life and big root technically incineroar should have fantastic recovery right?

>>33500727
If you used a Big Root, your SpDef drops by 50%. You could bring Leech Life on an Assault Vest set to mitigate it a bit, but Bug is a weird type offensively and unfortunately isn't boosted by STAB.

I think an SD set could be fun if you team built around it: Aggresive Hazard control, TWave support, Wallbreakers that beat his checks at +2 Atk, etc.

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>>33500393

what you think about this, honestly [pre USUM set]

>>33500742
SpDef drop becuase you get rid of Assault Vest, that is.

>>33500012
I honestly can't figure out if this thread is serious or not.

>>33500754
What these specific EVs give you?

>>33500742

of course I thought about - sp. atk, don't worry

>>33500760
I'm the one that answered, idk if he/she was serious or not...but I'm answering seriously.

>>33500754
Sets don't mean much without the rest of the team. What is this Incineroar supposed to be doing? What is the purpose of protect on him, just to scout?

>>33500764

600 atk for recovery with big root and stab dd lariat :^) I tried to invest into a kit-kat wall

>>33500773
Bless you for actually trying to help someone instead of being a shitposting dick like most people here.

>>33500773

you know, technically protect wastes potential Z moves right? and gives turn on toxic ect.

>>33500781
Yeah people here can be jerks. I just like Pokémon.

>>33500785
Yeah, but usually Protect + Toxic is ued on one set...that, or the team has lots of Toxic support. We didn't get a team here. I just feel like a 4th moveslot could be better suited for a set up move here, or something with different utility. Unless it's for VCG, then Protect away.

>>33500012
Celesteela
>has bulky typing
>more reliable stabs
>leech seed for recovery
>protect for scouting
That's basically it. Especially the typing portion. Steel/Flying is too good

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>>33500785
>>33500754

>>33500785

this is vs garchomp after intimidate and aurora veil ninetails, without aurora it gives us 53.8 - 63.9% from earthquake but still 81.2 - 95.9% without switch so technically in the trick room [meme] incineroar can destroy garchomp and regain health

>>33500819
Intimidate isn't available yet IIRC.

>>33500799

I just learned that protect is worth of using on a "shitmons" you can use them as a bait and stuff to set up ect. it's really helpful, I know leer looks like shit move, but it drops foes def by 1 which means that incineroar have easier job with killing off the targets if the opponent won't decide to switch out and if conditions will be good to do that, either in doubles and singles

>>33500819

sorry I forgot this is earthquake Z garchomp... anyway, you get the point

>>33500819

tested this with intimidate only and trick room, darkest lariat kills off the garchomp but it seems that recovery from leech life is not enough, without crit incineroars survives with only few % of hp and dies from rough skin, so darkest lariat here is much better against garchomp

>>33500903

wait, no it dies after 2th turn... so I guess that auroara veil and intimidate plus will-o-wisp combo is good here, testing it against garchomp because it's OU in the meta so.. just in case

>>33500920

13.4 - 15.9% of earthquake after aurora, intimidate plus will-o-wisp combo, I'm trying discuss for serious, technically it's shit because of USUM but still it's fun to show that big cat is not THAT shitty

>>33500842
But if you opt to use "shitmons" wouldn't you want to squeeze as much power out of them as possible?

Incineroar @ Charcoal / Black Glasses
252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Blaze / Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz / Fire Punch
- Darkest Lariat
- Cross Chop
- Swords Dance

Bring some Sticky Web / TWave support and Hazard control and this thing I'm sure could dent stuff hard. Only 5 Pokémon resist Fire/Dark/Fighting offensive combo. Could be a devastating late game sweep if you played the game the correct way.

>>33500954
My bad he doesn't learn Fire Punch. Kinda silly, still though just take Fire Punch off. Soing this at work is rough lmao.

>>33500940

it's do shit against tapu fini, it can 2h-ko gastrodon, struggles against machamp [2HKO after 2 swords dance and 3 after just one]
the same for rhydon

>>33501287
Read:Late Game Sweeper

I'm not saying he is going to solo 6-0 teams. I'm saying with the right support, you can make it a viable sweeper.

It also OHKO Chansey with Stealth Rocks, has a chance to OHKO Garchomp with Stealth Rocks, demolishes Tangrowth and anything with Fire weakness like Skarmory aftwr 1 SD. Every sweeper has counters. That's what the rest of the team is for.

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>>33500954

honestly, I made my set just to let incineroar hit as hard as possible and gain some recovery, with your idea I would use life orb for;

swords
flare blitz
giga impact [neutral and potential finisher]
outrage

because these are hits hard

>>33501393

I thought about LO, but Flare Blitz recoil + LO would rack up fast. It's also only 10% less damage on your main attacking move.

Outrage is fine instead of Cross Chop for coverage, personal preference.

Recharge moves are iffy imho.

You could also increase speed EVs to 164 to outspeed base 130 mons with TWave support.

>>33501393

110.4 - 129.9% [giga impact vs fini after swords]

vs rhydon cross chop is still not enough ironically, the same for rhyperior, vs alola marowak it's useless unless we set swords +3 or use outrage over cross chop

>>33501426

Incineroar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Giga Impact
- Outrage

looks good

>>33501473
Cherry picking counters to a sweeper is fine and dandy, but it's a game where you have to build a team.

Of course Pokémon that resist his main STAB aren't going to drop in a hit. He isn't meant to 6-0 sweep people.

Slap this dude with a Latios / Clefable / Ferrothorn core and I'm sure he'd do just fine cleaning matches.

>>33501507

I know, I'm just analysing vs his checks, for sure he need be pair with alolan ninetails aurora veil and thunder wave or sticky web combo, this is not only main attacker in the team but considering the meta it's good to get as deep as possible with the team building around him

>>33501559
Analyzing his checks goes beyond saying "he doesn't do shit to X" it also include who you bring to help that fact.

I don't think Ninetales is mandatory with him. If your goal is to clean late with it (which the set I suggested was for that) you need teammates that can remove bulky waters, dragons, entry hazards, and speed control. Most of those roles can be meshed into one.

>>33501605

yes, but this is still 5 turns of halved damages in early or later game plus hail lead and maybe stealth rocks

>>33501737
I'm not saying Ninetales is a bad partner. I'm saying don't confuse "good partner" with "mandatory"

Ninetales works best on Hyper Offense teams. If that's the style you want, then it fits. If you wanna play Incineroar in a Balanced or Bulky Offense team as the late game sweep, it doesn't mesh as well.