Ledian

Who's worse? Ledianfags or Flygoncucks?

>>33448656
Ledianfags, at least Flygon can be put to use in a tier. Ledian sucks even in PU.

>>33448656
cakecucks

>>33448635
It would be better, but it would be viable in pu

>>33448656
Flygoncucks because Ledian is actually a bad Pokemon.

Flygon is usable.

>>33448656
I feel sorry for both of them.

>>33448676
But this is true.

>>33448656
As a Flygonfag, I have to say Flygonfags are worse, they act as if being outclassed by one (now two) of the best Pokemon in the game's history while still being perfectly usable (And even dominant) in a lower tier is bad when stuff like Tauros and Snorlax had bigger falls from grace than him.

>>33448635
You cannot fix Ledian without turning it into a completely different Pokemon it's mathematically impossible to stick to its original theme and for it to be good at the same time.

>>33448770
Bug/Flying makes as much sense to it as Bug/Normal.
All I really did was switch Special Defense with Attack, which is how it should've been in the first place.

>>33448656
Ledianfags trying to make it a physical attacker it never supposed to be.
Just give it some Mega treatment to make it less shit

Mega Ledian
Bug/Ground
Ability: Magic Bounce
HP: 55
Attack: 35 -> 55
Defense 50 -> 95
Sp. Attack 55 ->90
Sp. Defense 110 -> 125
Speed 85 -> 70

There, should be a nice RU/UU material

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>>33448870
>one stat over 100
>decrease in speed
>anywhere close to UU

What about an ability that caused all punch moves to hit 4 times at the cost of losing their secondary effects (to prevent power-up punch shenanigans)

With it's pathetic attack stat it wouldn't be near op, just very strong (it can just ohko skarmory with thunder punch)

>>33448893
Yeah now that I think of it I was a bit too optimistic with the UU option.
If only it hadn't such shit HP...

It doesn't need to be competitively viable, just not absolute fucking dogshit in every regard, that's all I want.

>>33448635
>dogshit offensive typing
>mediocre defensive typing
>pathetic bulk
>bad speed for a frail offensive pokemon
>still outclassed by pretty much ever facade user in existence
No, it's still shit.

GF should at least give it quiver dance

sure it'd still be a shittier masquerain that way, but at least it'd be something

>>33448994
>mediocre defensive typing
make that terrible defensive typing: 4x weakness to SR

>>33449025
>bug/normal

>>33449064
woops missed that, yeh that makes it marginally better
still normal only gains it an immunity to ghost and loses it a resistance to fighting

this would
#166 Ledian
Bug/Flying --> Bug/Fighting
Swarm/Early Bird/Iron Fist --> Technician
HP: 55 --> 70 (+15)
Atk: 35 --> 100 (+65)
Def: 50 --> 60 (+10)
Sp. Atk: 55 --> 50 (-5)
Sp. Def: 110 --> 70 (-40)
Spe: 85 --> 124 (+39)
Total: 390 --> 474 (+84)
now it can be a physical counterpart to ribombee

>>33448770
I don't understand the hate for flygon. It was solid ou in gen 4 and since then has received 2 amazing buffs in tailwind, and dragon dance, (the latter being something garchomp can only dream of) it has a solid niche in doubles that it's competitors lack, and can arguabley pull off a scarf set better than Garchomp due to its access to U-turn.

>>33448870
>Ledianfags trying to make it a physical attacker it never supposed to be.

blame game freak for creating a punching ladybird with a moveset full of physical moves and barely any special. if it didn't have those i don't think as many would care about it having such shit attack.

It's punches are supposed to be awful.

Make it a specially-based Bug/Psychic type since Ledian is linked to starlight. Ariados got a +10 to it's base stats so let's do the same for Ledian in addition to moving the stats around. Alter its model so it is standing on the ground.

Ledian
Bug/Psychic
Ability: Swarm/Compound Eyes
Hidden Ability: Rattled

Stats
HP: 55
Att: 30
Def: 55
SpA: 90
SpD: 70
Spe: 100

Total: 400

Optimal moves would include but aren't limited to: Quiver Dance, Hypnosis, Bug Buzz, Psychic, Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Giga Drain, Energy Ball, Flash Cannon, Moonblast, and Focus Blast. Hypnosis and Focus Blast benefit from Compound Eyes immensely.

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>>33449328
fuck me messing up the its/it's grammar

>>33448915
The attack boost from power-up punch is a primary effect

>>33448893
>coveted magic bounce ability
>reliable recovery
>excellent support movepool
>decent defensive typing
ru at least

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>>33448656
this guy gets it >>33448676
Ledianfags are obnoxious, but at least their mon is totally unsalvageable, so their complaints have merit. Their hearts are in the right place. Flycucks and staraptor fags are insufferable. "Oh boo hoo, my mon is top tier RU and better than two pseudos." "Waah, my ugly pompadour """raptor""" with a fucked up insectivore beak is too good for UU, the second highest real tier, not counting literal poke-god's playground"
Fuck that.

I'm the OP of this thread and I didn't even know Ledianfags were a thing. I just like the idea of a Guts Normal type user with Leech Life.

>>33451374
There are seriously fuckers that complain that Staraptor isn't good enough? This thing is my second favourite pokemon specifically because of how ridiculously overpowered it proved to be in in-game play despite that it was only on my team to be a Fly slave like every other regional bird before it. Even in competitive it fucks shit up- it is better than Pigeot's Mega.

>>33448635
nothing aside from Huge Power along with brutal min-maxing would make Ledian be good and even then it would be a worse Mega Beedrill

Just make it really bulky instead of having it rely on speed and you have got something

>>33453181
It's too good for UU but not good enough for OU and it's been like that since gen 5

>>33448635
It'd make more sense, at least.

>>33453231
Thank you! This is all I wanted to hear.

>>33448635
Give it an ability called Double Punch that lets all punching moves hit twice for full damage.

With its attack stat being trash, it wouldn't be too OP.

>>33448635
just try to make it viable in PU, or at least in game usable.
I decided to boost its BST to 450, alongside mons like venomoth, ninjask, and araquanid.
Bug/Fighting
HP: 65
ATK:95
DEF: 70
SP. ATK: 35
SP. DEF: 90
SPE: 95
New ability: Defiant>Early Bird, learns bulk up and other appropriate fighting moves
Now it can be a fast bulkyish pivot, since its no longer crippled by rocks. decent dual screen user/bulk up sweeper, hell give it guts and it'll probably be broken in PU like everything else with guts this gen. pretty much a weaker heracross with BU

>>33453376
110 Attack is more usable in-game, and more thematically appropriate, than whatever it is you're trying to do.

>>33448656
>tfw ledian and flygon are 2 of my favorite pokemon

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AND THIS IS TO GO EVEN FURTHER BEYOND

Even I think this is too much, but the Five Star Pokemon having precisely 555 BST amuses me.

>>33448656
Flygonfags because they constantly shit on other pokemon.

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Ledian doesn't need any fixing. Our tripgod said so.

>>33448635

I think this is one of the few pokemon where Huge Power would actually make sense

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Nothing can fix ledian

>Star power
>doubles the power of super effective attacks

Maybe even triples, I don't know With ledian's movepool it would be great, but not overpowered because it can't hit everything supereffectively

>>33454412
Wouldn't that just be a Mega?

>>33454926

Only if Megas add 165 BST.

>>33454856
>>33449328