Pokémon thread

cherrypicking is not cool, anon

I'll take both.

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>>33375572
Tfw this image is unironically true.

>>33375572
I miss the sense of adventure the first few generations had.

>Gen I was a big mystery because nobody really understood the games back then and the internet was mostly Angelfire and Myspace level trash
>Gen II was legitimately huge and felt like it would never end
>Gen III felt like the perfect step up and introduced a lot of neat hidden areas and gimmicks
>Gen IV was more of the same but became god-tier with HGSS
>Gen V had a lot of new things to try and tons of daily events, legendaries, etc.

Gen VI honestly wasn't too much of a step down, but it definitely felt like they didn't pour as much energy into the story or the post-game. Also the amount of legendaries and events were pretty low quality. ORAS was unforgiveable for how it tried to patch things up.

Gen VII just feels hollow. Very, very hollow.

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>>33375572
ftfy

>>33375830
>Distortion World over Ice Path
You serious? Ice Path you at least had to use a little brainpower. In Plat the Lake Trio outright told you what to do.

>>33375572
>tfw gen V is the best and worst

What a weird gen.

>>33375830
Azelf was in the Distortion World? Don't remember that at all

>>33377656
The entire lake trio was there, I think they just pointed out stuff to help you get through.

>>33377151
Gen V started all the negative aspects of the later gens. Railroading up the ass, tiny enemy teams, plot textdumps, ridiculous or boring protag designs, constant free heals and dex bloat all stem from either BW or BW2. However, the games still include some sense of adventure with mandatory story dungeons (Chargestone and Twist), new locations to revisit once the shitty story's over, and while BW2's single player postgame battles aren't as grand as Platinum or HGSS's, it's still more than what's given in the modern gens.

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I'm playing Platinum and Sinnoh's design is blowing my mind coming from Sun/Moon. It's expansive, interconnected, and features a shitton of optional space and HM blockades encouraging returning to places you've already been in and finding new things, this is helped by the fact that dowsing machine items respawn and the VS Seeker exists.

The region loops back into itself in multiple ways, I keep unlocking shortcuts to places I've already been in by getting the bicycle or a new HM, and these shortcuts make the map feel very adventurous as I'm not even minding not having Fly yet, this is a great accomplishment considering how larger it is than previous regions while the walking speed stayed the same. Little off the beaten path areas are everywhere, with entire routes and dungeons being discovered 100% through player-driven exploration, like the bottom of the cycling road and the Wayward Cave.
There's just so much exploration and adventure in Platinum compared to Alola that it makes me believe Game Freak is truly lost. The world was small and limited in the GBC due to hardware, but they kept improving with the GBA and then the DS, and have not just stopped improving since but went backwards and made the most shallow, linear game yet which cares so little about exploration that it teleports you up a mountain to the next story cutscene with absolutely no gameplay payoff at all.

I won't even get into the Poketch or how competitive Pokemon was the most varied and balanced it ever was in gen 4 either.
They peaked at gen 4 as devs, and while BW2 managed to salvage BW1 into something worthwhile it was all downhill soon after.

>>33377809
People like to shit on Mt Coronet but it's pretty cool to have a central location you keep returning to that introduces a bunch of alternate pathways, very fun to navigate around the map before you have fly

>>33377840
It's seriously amazing, it links everything well. I think the only reason people shit on it is because of how many HMs you need to explore it in its entirety, or at least I hope that's the only reason, otherwise they're partially responsible for the shitstain that is SM Alola.

>>33377809
Alola interconnects pretty well on Melemele and to a lesser extent Akala and that's the one thing I'd say it has going for it, but Ula'ula and Poni are pretty much straight shots with some twiggy side paths with it being particularly blatant on Ula'ula

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>>33377859
Imagine the remake of sinnoh with Poké Ride...

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>>33377746
>Dex bloat
>XY
>SM
>Dex bloat
I fucking wish. Christ man, when I see a new pokemon game I expect new pokemon, and a good fucking number of them. I've already had several generations of older mons and I want to experience new ones. XY and SM have such an incredibly underwhelming amount of new mons. Unova was a godsend with the sheer amount and diversity of pokemon it had, even if it was based on Kanto. So much good and such little bad. But I will agree that it started the decline in quality seen in the last 2 gens.

>>33377809
>>33377840
>>33377859
Mt. Coronet was great. It was THE Dungeon. You pass through it multiple times during your journey but then time comes for you to actually tackle it, and it's a fucking monster. The blizzard, the snow slowing you down, it was a real journey up.

>>33377809
Sinnoh is the reason we have pisspoor corridor regions like kalos and alola. Wimpy Japanese schoolkid playtesters said Sinnoh was too confusing so Musada said with Unova onwards they tried to make regions more straightforward and kid-friendly.

>>33377809
The maps otherwise good design is hampered when actually playing the games because there's absolutely no way to shake how much of a pain it is to discern which of the motherfucking 8 HMs you require to get anywhere.

Nothing beats the good ol' Sinnoh feel of trying to explore an area you've never been to before only to be cockblocked every way you go by HM requirements, even worse if you already have the HM requirement and have just stored it in order to actually have useful and/or interesting Pokemon team not weighed down by HM slaves.

It's like Sinnoh was designed to make players realize just how arbitrary, limiting and asinine the HM system was.

>Oh you're starting to have fun exploring? Oh no you've ran into 1 of the like 5 total areas in the entire fucking game you need Rock Climb to access, guess that kills that plan.

>>33375830
Distortion World was so cool the first time but I hate going through it on replays.

>>33378073
Meanwhile western kids are building literal mazes in Minecraft. How can Japan even compete?

>>33377859
Get Tropius and Gyarados.
Tropius
>Cut
>Fly
>Defog
>Rock Climb

Gyarados
>Surf
>Strength
>Rock Smash
>Waterfall

>>33378028
I'm not the anon you are responding to but I'm certain that they meant Regional Dex not that generation's set of monsters

>>33378073
>Rotomdex map allows them to make maps as complex as they like since the wayfinder will guide you where to go if you get lost
>don't take advantage of it

>>33375844
You need zero brainpower for the ice path puzzle. The picture should be the regigigas ice puzzle instead of the distortion world

>>33378121
>Not the dungeon where you find Giratina in DP

>>33378085
I don't believe it was a mistake that they introduced poorman's Arceus and PokeRide. Seems way too coincidental. I know Sinnoh remakes are around the corner, at least eventually. There is no reason to believe they would do anything other than pull a cash grab at this point. while hoping the region itself is better received. If they were smart they would postpone the remakes a gen or release it this gen and quickly polish up and iron out the complaints about Hoenn and release the remakes _D_P and earn lost dignity. Alola was not a vast improvement, graphically. So they

>>33378085
Defog is probably the absolute worst fucking HM in history. Fog was such a shitty weather condition. It cut your accuracy to shit and that is the only reason you would ever need to actually waste a moveslot on that worthless HM. You could navigate without it but you're forced to for such shit reasons. I would be fine with it and fog altogether if they didn't make it an undeletable HM.

>>33378125
To this day I have never figured out Turnback Cave. I just eventually reach the end and leave to never return, unsure how I even made it.

>>33378028
I would say Dex bloat in the sense that it's just a ton of Pokémon shoved onto routes. Look at Route 201 in DP.
>Starly
>Bidoof
>Nidoran-F (Poké Radar)
>Nidoran-M (Poké Radar)
>Growlithe (Dual Slot mode with FireRed inserted)
>Doduo (post-game outbreak)

Compare to Route 2 in Kalos.
>Caterpie (Y) / Weedle (X)
>Pidgey
>Zigzagoon
>Bunnelby
>Fletchling
>Scatterbug

Just as many Pokémon on both routes in a single game, but they're all just walking encounters in Kalos that you can find as soon as you get there. Does Kalos really need Caterpie/Weedle as a regular encounter along with Scatterbug? Or Pidgey with Fletchling? Or Zigzagoon with Bunnelby? A better version of Kalos Route 2 would be
>Fletchling
>Bunnelby
>Scatterbug
>Pidgey (post-game outbreak)
>Zigzagoon (Poké Radar)
>Caterpie / Weedle (some other special method)

457 Pokémon in a regional Pokédex is ridiculous, bring it down to 250 or something and make the rest post-game to give all the routes replay value.

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Pokemon's level design reached its peak here. Such a finely crafted region.

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>>33378172
>10 years later GF makes it so Defog removes entry hazards
>now becomes amazing competitively
>they don't make it a TM or a tutor move at all
>you now have dozens of Pokemon that can make good use of Defog but have to be bred and transferred all the way from DPPT because it's only available there as a shitty HM that was once entirely useless

>>33375800
>Gen III felt like the perfect step up and introduced a lot of neat hidden areas and gimmicks
But gen 3 was when Pokemon got repetitive and sterile.

Gen 4 was when people got excited again because they finally could battle online, and then gen 5 brought nothing of value and turned people away again.

>>33378231
Fuck off tourneyfag

>>33378184
I would rather have the Kalos method, it gives variety to the main game where I'm actually going to seriously care about what I encounter.

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quick question, if the maingame was a railroad, but there were side dungeons that had Regi-tier puzzles, would you like it?

>>33378253
it'd be better than what we currently have now, that's for certain

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>>33378184
>Alola had a regional Dex of 300 mons
Holy fuck in hindsight this region really had too much shit going on even though it was so fucking empty and boring. So much older mons and single routes were loaded with like 6 fucking mons. And on top of that newer pokemon felt rarer than they should have been. It feels so inorganic.

>>33378289
The Alola dex is clearly both parts newbie friendly and nostalgia bait dex all in one thanks to Pokemons surge in popularity.

Lots of "classic" mons' littering most routes so newer players don't miss out on fan favorites and the new generation Pokemon are treated as "special" and tucked away off the beaten track so they feel new and exciting for Pokemon vets.

The most blatant version of this is right at the start of the bloody game. With how popular Lycanrock is there's no reason for Rockruff to be hidden away in one specific area of the first island that you don't even end up going to if you're just following the main story.

>>33377965
>Remake

Modern gamefreak will just gimp Sinnoh for muh accessibility

>>33378240
I'm unironically a tourneyfag who played in my country's make-believe league every year, along with monthly gym challenges.

Gen 3 was the one that killed the scene that had been around for 5 years and growing. Cheating became rampant, crap like perfect IV shiny Lati@s and Metagrosses that we couldn't ban because it was "technically possible". Huge amounts of time wasted comparing stats to see if each player's team was legal.

While cheating was always there, it only became apparent and even encouraged in gen 3 due to how much grindier it became to build new teams, and how necessary it was to have a perfect team just to not get steamrolled by a flawless HP flying Salamence.

There are still some videos online of how those competitions were, if you're curious.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3855A11AE202D0AF

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>>33378253
>Region with unusually hostile environment and strong pokemon
>Region is connected by a massive railway going right down the middle, cutting through various different terrains/environments
>But the towns and areas around them are very complex and have a lot of shit to do before you decide to move on
>Endgame involves walking through the areas you rode through on the train and dealing with the more dangerous parts of the region
>You prove yourself capable of mastering the region itself by the end of the game

>>33378319
Man you could go to 10 Carat Hill, leave, play the game and forget it fucking existed by the end. I hate Alola so god damn much.

>>33378353
I'm hard

>>33378205
The land part maybe.

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>>33375572
>Gen V on top and bottom
What an awkward little region.

>>33378337

Come now.

Gen 3 only shed a light on how fucking arbitrary and obtuse the IV was in the first place as it was hard enough to even obtain information - let alone roll the RNG dice enough times to get good mons.

You can appreciate the more streamlined stats of Pre-Gen 3 mons' all you want but the additional variation in stats + the addition of natures at least made the game more in-depth from a pure stats perspective.

Besides, we may have less transparently hacked shit these days thanks to Shiny locked legends etc. but it's basically open knowledge that pretty much every competitive team is "illegitimate" somewhere along the line. Whether mons' be bred from hacked parents, edited post-catch etc.

I don't think any fellow tourney-fag seriously believes that the majority of the 100s of perfect stat-lined Tapu Koko were caught in the legitimate sense.

Gen 3 if anything was the first real glimpse into the flaws of "competitive" Pokemon and how fucked getting a competitive team up and running was.

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>mfw I just realized we could have had Ultra Space Portals and unique Ultra Beast dungeons for finding and capturing them
>But Alola is too EMPTY and BORING AS FUCK

GAMEFREEEEEEEEAK

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>>33378231
I can't speak for everyone, but when R/S came out I was in 5th grade and like half my class got it and we all thought secret bases were the coolest fucking thing that would ever exist.

>Gen 5 brought nothing of value
Gen 5 I remember being SO fucking stoked to have a total reset adventure with 100% new Pokémon, I miss that honestly.

>>33378427
Hey that actually sounds like something they'd add in USUM, what if the Kartana one we saw is just the beginning?

>>33378251
While it does add more variety, I think it makes Pokémon found through regular grass encounters feel less special. Looking at Sinnoh again, for a player just starting out, they're encountering new Pokémon in the form of Starly and Bidoof. For someone who has obtained the National Pokédex and is looking for post-game content, they're going to remember Nidoran-F and Nidoran-M as special Poké Radar Pokémon. They're going to remember Growlithe as a special Dual Slot Pokémon. They're going to remember Doduo as a special outbreak Pokémon. Also use Hoenn Sound and Sinnoh Sound as examples in HGSS, where it breathes new life into old areas after you beat the game. I don't really have any reason to return to locations in Alola unless I either get a new Ride Pokémon or there's a minor post-game story event. There's no special reason that you have to be on Alola Route 3 post-game.

Regular grass encounters are okay for most new Pokémon. Legendary Pokémon should be overworld encounters in special locations. Older regular Pokémon should be found through special methods, because it makes them feel more special. If I had Pokémon Red on the Virtual Console and USUM detected it and put wild Ekans and Oddish in certain locations, that would feel more interesting than having them as regular grass encounters along with five other random Pokémon in the same location.

>>33378231
Gen 5 had great areas, great pokemon, the best online, and an amazing amount of side content, activities and postgame. It introduced a fuck ton of shit.

>>33378436
Oh you mean the straight paths into the small rooms? I'm real excited. But really, Ultra Space could be a complex, trippy mazelike dungeon with 7 unique endings based on what weird path you decide to take. The Distortion World amped up to 11. But Gamefreak making actual dungeons is a joke as of Gen 6.

Take the best three features and aspects of each gen to put into one game.

>>33378414
The problem was the casuals.

Having little variance in stats (and the game being slower paced/easier to deal with) allowed the casuals to have enough fun that they kept coming back and paying to play. Without them it was just unviable to keep things happening.

Gen 3's changes were just complexity creep, making the games harder to access for new players (on a series that already had a high learning curve) without actually making matches more fun.

Abilities were a good thing though, if I were the battle designer back then I'd just keep the GS system and add one ability for each pokemon.

>>33378487
>Gen 5 had great areas, great pokemon, the best online, and an amazing amount of side content, activities and postgame. It introduced a fuck ton of shit.

Face it.

The only reason we give BW2 such an easy ride is because BW1 were so shit that the improvements that BW2 brought to the table felt like a godsend.

>great pokemon

Ah yes.

The generation that brought us "literally just trash / an ice-cream cone" in addition to releasing the horrendously derpy genies and on the competitive scene, that's the hill of Pokemon design I'd stake my opinion on.

Can't forget the MLP-bait Pony legend of course.

If there's even only one thing that Gen VI and VII improved upon V it was the Pokemon designs. Gen V was just fucking awful, but it keeps getting a pass because "muh post-game".

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>>33378570

>>33378570
Shit, does this mean we might do the same thing with USUM?

>>33378507
The problem was that the game was evolving beyond the simplicity that allowed anyone to just pick up whatever Pokemon and roll with it.

Pre-gen-3 the battle system was quite simply puddle deep.

Shallow move-pools, no abilities, no physical special split.

It may have had a bit of a following going with casual players having fun with their mons' etc. but that doesn't change the fact that Gen 3s additions at least began the games on a path to somewhat resembling competition.

Of course Pokemon will never really be competitive at all due to how much of an RNG shit-show it is, but if the battle system is currently an elaborate game of Rock / Paper / Scissors with some dice rolls thrown in then in Gen 2 it was a picture of a game of RPS scrawled on a piece of paper with a piece of partially dried poo.

>>33378487
>the best online
As nice as the improvements are compared to Gen IV, I'd say Gen VI, specifically ORAS, had much better online. With Gen V, you were only able to access online at the Pokecenters, and in BW specifically there wasn't much of an incentive to actually go out and communicate. BW2 at least gives the Join Avenue.
In Gen VI, lots of improvements are made that make it even better. For one thing, you're able to connect online anytime, anywhere, and stay connected as you adventure. The PSS profile allows you to type out your own message instead of using pre-sets, letting other people know what you want to do or have in mind. Wonder Trade is introduced, and while the mon selection there isn't amazing, it allows breeders to trade off mons in an instant, and maybe get another species with rare moves and good stats already attached so they don't have to start from scratch, or help people who want to complete the dex get a head start by getting a constant supply of random mons. You've got three tabs too, with friends, random players, and people you've communicated with before, so if you ever want to do something with them again, you can easily contact them. Pokemiles encouraged people to always keep doing things with each other, and you could get useful items like PP Ups.
And specifically with ORAS, online communications now include Secret Bases, which also have rewards. You can register people as your Base Pal, and have them do all sorts of useful things for you.

>>33375770
>>33375572

tfw you're blinded by nostalgia.

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>>33378570
>Ah yes.
>The generation that brought us "literally just trash / an ice-cream cone" in addition to releasing the horrendously derpy genies and on the competitive scene, that's the hill of Pokemon design I'd stake my opinion on.
Ah yes, the usual retarded cunt who just cites the "Gen 5 is the worst" two mememons + the genies and calls it a day. That's the level of evidence I'd stake my opinion on.

>>33378584
Probably.

The original games relied pretty heavily on nostalgia-bux so a bit more pandering combined with some somewhat interesting story expansion, new zones, end-game content etc. could see USUM be the new "this was how the games were supposed to be done" that BW2 were.

I'm just looking forward to the shitshow that is the next re-make.

Nothing is going to rip those nostalgia glasses off faster than remembering how (as gimmicky as it is) the PokePager is infinitely better than HMs, especially considering Gens IV and V were the worst offenders when it comes to HM-locking shit.

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>>33378686
Isn't the gen with the elemental monkeys a literal pile of garbage and the many Pokemon whose only reason to exist is that they are Kanto counterparts? But hey maybe I'm wrong and they are from another gen...

>>33378686
You are not wrong.

>>33378657
It made sense to keep it in the Pokémon Center, they introduced battle boxes to be on deck and ready so it wouldn't be too much of a chore to disconnect, go to the pc, and readjust.

But ORAS definetly got PSS perfected to become better than Gen V.

>>33378337
Wasn't gen 2 grindier though? You had to max every stat and maxing stat exp took AGES, much more than EVs. IVs were basically the same too.

>33378570
t. assmad hoennbaby

not even gonna bother with a (you)

>>33378772
When did this Unovabortions vs. Hoennbaby nonsense start anyway?
You people constantly assume shitposters to be of a certain group rather than simply seeing them as people trying to start shit. It's no better than the recent Alola starterwars.

>>33378414
Hacking being an unspoken thing that everyone does is cancer to the competitive scene though, it creates a big barrier of entry and it puts everyone who wants to get into the game off, because whether you want to admit it or not Pokemon is the only franchise where cheating and bypassing the game is not just accepted and welcomed but also done by everyone who plays competitively at any level. VGC is awkward as fuck because of this.

They should either stop pretending the entire competitive scene isn't a massive hackfest and crack down hard on it (which would destroy it as we know it), or they should make a "competitive mode" in the games that allows you to set up rental Pokemon with whatever stats and moves you want for the purpose of online/official competitions and battle spot. Just make it so competitive players don't have to hack OR play the non-competitive Pokemon training game to get their teams ready, just shatter that barrier of entry entirely.

I like the second option, and you could even have two different leagues, one a competitive battling league, and the other a Pokemon trainer competition that encompasses all aspects of the game and not just battling, in this mode you'd only be able to use Pokemon you caught/bred and trained yourself, so people who like to put a lot of time and effort WOULD get rewarded for it in the form of an advantage over others. But to even have that second league you'd need to crack down on hacking completely which isn't realistic until the series goes online only.

>>33378686
Of course a Unovabort knight shows up to try and defend his shitty gens shitty designs.

Okay I'll continue.

>The face-heel-turn that is Samurott as a 3rd stage

>The hideous attempt at waifu-pandering Gothitelle line

>"It's just some fucking gears" Klingklang line

>Taking humanoid a step too far by actually having robes and belts in the form of Throh and Sawk

>Furry / anthro-bait Zoroark

>Cyber-fuzor-EX-form-Kyurem with its infamous glowing butt-engine being the cover of the games no-less

I can keep going if you would like.

There's just so many bad designs - and to make things worse, so many of them seem to follow the design process of:

1: Look at a well-liked a semi gimmicky mon' from a previous gen.

2: COMPLETELY miss the fucking point and double-down on not the core design but the gimmick itself and ruin everything.

>>33378488
Gen 1
>Little to no handholding, you're on your own pal

Gen 2
Can't really think of anything particularly unique

Gen 3
>Pokenav
>Mirage Areas
>Battle Frontier

Gen 4
>Great Map/Dungeons
>Pokewalker
>Resort Area Villa

Gen 5
>Graphics
>Battles (Gyms/League/Wild Grass/Level scaling)
>Side activities/Post Game

Gen 6
>Online
>Super Training
>Clothes Customization

Gen 7
>Pokepelago
>Pokeride
>Team Skull

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>>33378815

>>33378816
With Gen II, I'd say two regions (albeit small, it's essentially an expansion of Gen I in every way because of that), female protagonist (whether or not you like Kris, the feature became a mainstay and allowed players to pick another option if they don't like a certain protagonist design), and Dark/Steel types.

>>33378815
The thing I hate most about the Unova mon are that they all evolve so fucking late...
It feels like everything is either a stone or Lv50+ for the second stage.

>>33378809
While the battler in me agrees mostly with your sentiment - I can see where the game direction is coming from when they want to keep breeding and training a team as part of the core experience of Pokemon.

The "competitive" scene of Pokemon is dwarfed by the huge amount of people that just play the games to go on a nice adventure raising their quirky little monsters and online-only would just ruin the whole point of it all.

Even stuff like DRM or having to be online to check your mons' legality at all times would kill the series outright in my opinion.

I'm just hoping that they keep streamlining the process of catching IV mons, choosing natures (a day-care like building that re-trains natures in post-game for example) and assembling a team simpler and simpler for the purposes of online / tournament battling that eventually it will just be simpler to raise your team than go through the hastle of having some form of home-brew that won't be caught in tournaments and all the requirements that go along with it.

I don't think we'll ever be rid of hacking, but as long as making competitive teams becomes accessible and not an hours upon hours time-sink it'll eventually be a non-issue.

Heck, it's heading that way now with how easy 5IVs, Nature and Ability are to manage.

>>33378874
>Heck, it's heading that way now with how easy 5IVs, Nature and Ability are to manage.
This. Its never been easier to get perfect stuff. You can even have your older shit bottlecapped up to max IVs if its level 100. Plus you can do stuff like use rental teams to figure out what you want to raise.

>>33378854
The Unova dex is a deformed bastard child of worse recreations of previous gen Pokemon combined with everything evolving in a "different" way like the regions Pokemon are somehow too special for normal expected evolution milestones or just evolving without some convoluted bullshit involved.

>>33378570
>The good ol Garbage and Ice Cream
Haha, wow
>Pokemon based on waste in an extremely urban region
>Somehow reflecting actual trash is bad
>Pokemon is based on Icicles and Stalactites with a cute nod to a tasty snack
>HURR IT'S JUST ICECREAM
>Forgetting the amount of pokemon that are literally rocks

>>33378815
>1: Look at a well-liked a semi gimmicky mon' from a previous gen.
>2: COMPLETELY miss the fucking point and double-down on not the core design but the gimmick itself and ruin everything.

Where does this ever happen? What 'point' do these designs miss? The look at a Kantomon, pull out the basic idea of the pokemon and make a new pokemon around that basic idea. And each one manages to be properly fresh, unique and appealling despite being blatant homages to previous pokemon.

>>33378850
Johto introduced a lot of stuff that has become norm for pokemon games and don't have anything unique other games lack. Wouldn't make sense mentioning them. Double Regions is good though.

>>33378879
All they'd need to do is allow Dittos to breed with themselves and then they could actually crack down on cheating.

Not that I care. I just think that IVs are basically the only thing keeping them from going axe crazy over injectors.
If anyone could easily and "quickly" have a 6IV Ditto...
There'd be little reason to not crack down.

>>33378337
This is some good stuff. I love seeing old metas, specially grassroots metas that build up their own specific niche metas instead of general ones. Cheers for this anon.

>>33378879
>You can even have your older shit bottlecapped up to max IVs if its level 100

Too bad Sun/Moon made that impossible by basically not having bottle caps in the game (you can forget about golden ones), and not having ANY realistic way of grinding to 100. Let's hope USUM introduced bottle caps in their postgame and high level trainers and Pokemon to make getting to 100 realistically possible.

In SM I only ever did one hack/edit on my save file ever, and that was giving myself multiple slots of 999 rare candies and 999 golden bottlecaps, which is basically what I've always done since gen 2 anyway when most people used either the clone glitch or an Action Replay to give themselves infinite rare candies, vitamins and TMs.
I'm a bit ashamed of it, but it's just insanely hard to keep up competitively without any editing at all. It has gotten way easier though, they just need to make bottlecaps and level 100 accessible now.
I still have to breed for hidden power, egg moves, and I still have to EV train, as well as catching the parents in the first place. I don't directly inject Pokemon because it really does make them feel fake to me, but I'm fine with infinite rare candies and caps because it cuts the most inaccessible and mind numbingly boring aspects of the game while preserving the ones I enjoy.

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>>33378815
>Okay I'll continue
I can play the same game faggot
>Powerful 3 headed dragon hydra

>fire moth based on solar dieties

>ghost golem that can fly

>Chandelier possessed by fire spirit

>sand crocodile bandit

>Badass steel clawed mole

>Buck that cleverly changes design based on the season mechanis

>a unique version of the bishop/knight relationship + a kickass Kamen rider design

>steel plated seed with three vines ending in metal flails

>electric tarantula whose name literally plays on the definition of "galvinism"

I can go on if you like, cunt

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>>33378935
As horendous as it is, you can use the plaza to get bottlecaps pretty regularly. I have a level 2 black lottery stall that gets me ordinary and gold bottlecaps on the regular. I still have like 5 gold bottlecaps after maxing out my HP Ice Xurkitree.

>>33378939
don't respond to bait

>>33378488
Gen 1
>Little handholding
>No mandatory catch tutorial

Gen 2
ERROR[data_(good_things_about_gen2)]not_found

Gen 3
see Gen 2

Gen 4
>Great design
>Pokewalker
>PtHGSS battle frontier

Gen 5
>Audino grinding
>Graphics
>Postgame

Gen 6
>Online
>Super Training
>XP gain

Gen 7
>Pokeride
>Team Skull
>Guzma

>>33378920
>Pokemon based on waste in an extremely urban region
>Somehow reflecting actual trash is bad
Pokemon is based on Icicles and Stalactites with a cute nod to a tasty snack

You see this would be a valid criticism if they were "a cute nod" to their inspiration as you say but they're not.

The Trubbish line is just trash with a face and the Vanillite line is just ice-cream with a face. The "cute nod" in this scenario is just drawing a face on the source material and calling it a day.

>Forgetting the amount of pokemon that are literally rocks

Yes and the Pokemon who are just rocks with faces are just as lazy and uninspired as rubbish, ice cream, gears etc.

>Where does this ever happen? What 'point' do these designs miss?

Okay I'll spell it out for you.

Look at Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee.

Both are clear nods to two very distinct fighting styles, both are humanoid shape but are at the same time visibly non-human and creature-like.

At a glance you can tell lee kicks and chan punches right away.

Their bodies are distinctly alien but there's enough information in their designs that you can tell what they're all about, even when boiled down to it Hitmonlee is just a brown blob with springy limbs from a design standpoint.

Now compare these two to Throh and Sawk.

Just like Trubbish was just a few features drawn onto trash, Throh and Sawk are just a few features drawn onto a Judo and a Karate practitioner. Right down to the fucking organic Judogi / Karate Gi that's somehow supposed to make sense.

The parallel in Gen 1 would be if they dressed Hitmonlee up in a Bruce Lee yellow and black enter-the-dragon jumpsuit or gave Hitmonchan a championship belt and boxing shorts.

If chan and lee are the "cute nod" to their source material then Throh and Sawk by comparison have butchered their source material and are wearing its rotting corpse as a skin. All while holding neon signs saying "WE'RE JUDO AND KARATE YOU FUCKING RETARDS".

>>33378939
You're the one being facetious and butt-hurt here my friend, no need to resort to name-calling.

It'd also help if you didn't play right into part of the problem.

>Chandelier possessed by fire spirit

You mean literally a chandelier with a face drawn on it?

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>>33378414
>>33378809
>>33378874
>>33378879
>>33378924
>>33378935
>>33378952
Competitive plain and simply has too many hoops to jump through. Not matter how much GF simplifies it, injecting shit is simply way too convenient, there's no reason to do it over the "legit" way short of breeding relaxing you or something like that.

That Gamefreak treats IVs and all that other stuff that's required knowledge for competitive as state secrets does not help at all either. How are casuals even supposed to get a start-up when the game doesn't even tell them how? The official format is VGC, it's doubles, and yet you can count in one hand how many double battles a game has. Shit like this prevents growth.

And this is without getting on how completely broken and unbalanced mess competitive is as a whole. It's a pile of shit on a pile of shit on top of an already big pile of shit. What kind of people would willingly jump onto it when they can just go play LoL click click click for 30 minutes and feel like they accomplished something even if they are horrible at game and they got carried through the whole game and in case they lose they can blame someone else on their team instead of themselves?

Comp is also BORING as fuck to watch. You can go watch other competitive game and at least enjoy the pretty colors, even if you don't know anything about the game, you can more or less get the gist of what's going on, you cannot do this with Pokemon unless you are already up your ass with competitive knowledge. One recent example, do you think your average casual with zero knowledge about worlds would be able to understand why the Worlds Finals from a few days ago was so hype? Why everyone shat their pants at the Mandibuzz switch-in into the Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle? Or the double-target on Xurkitree at the end of the match?

Competitive Pokemon is a broken game, simple as that. It's not friendly for either casuals or even the people who actually play competitive.

why doesn't pokemon have sidequests desu
like, REAL sidequests and not just (((sidequests))) that are 'go find me granbull lol i give you my uncles machob :-DD'
like fucking around in towns, actually getting decent rewards side quests. and of course, NOT lock them behind postgame

>>33379049
>>33379049
>there's no reason to do it over the "legit" way short of breeding relaxing you or something like that.
This, I like raising a perfect pokemon and it takes like an hour at max.

>>33379049
>One recent example, do you think your average casual with zero knowledge about worlds would be able to understand why the Worlds Finals from a few days ago was so hype? Why everyone shat their pants at the Mandibuzz switch-in into the Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle? Or the double-target on Xurkitree at the end of the match?
That's why good commentary is so important.

>>33379053
Because, according to Masuda, if that happened little Timmy would get confused and bored and would go back to play his phone games.

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>>33379043
>You mean literally a chandelier with a face drawn on it?
Yes, and that would be a sound argument, if the design itself wasnt aesthetically pleasing to begin with

>>33377809
Well fucking said, anon. Describes everything I feel about Sinnoh and about the series' direction

>>33379049
>Competitive plain and simply has too many hoops to jump through. Not matter how much GF simplifies it, injecting shit is simply way too convenient, there's no reason to do it over the "legit" way short of breeding relaxing you or something like that.

There's the fact that a huge amount of people who go to tournaments and at least participate in the scene have no interest in hacks, home-brew or any sort of 3rd party involvement.

Heaps of people as you say just want to raise up a team and do some battles and while hacking will probably always be technically faster - if the convenience of breeding / catching good Pokemon becomes not-too-tedious I'm willing to bet many battlers would just do it the old fashioned way - the main barrier to entry to competitive at the moment is the monumental time sink it requires to be invested.

>>33379094
>Heaps of people as you say just want to raise up a team and do some battles and while hacking will probably always be technically faster - if the convenience of breeding / catching good Pokemon becomes not-too-tedious I'm willing to bet many battlers would just do it the old fashioned way - the main barrier to entry to competitive at the moment is the monumental time sink it requires to be invested.
Things are easier than ever and people still hack. People have been saying what you just said since Gen 5 and people are still hacking. Short of Gamefreak releasing a not-Showdown people will keep hacking forever because it's way too damn convenient, no matter how easy Gamefreak keeps making it, it will never be as convenient as just simply hacking.

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>>33379053
>Pokemon could have had Shadows of Almia tier visual layout
Gamefreak obviously never actually wanted to make the games better and expansive. Pokemon Ranger of all games had the the most ideal game design that could have been incorporated into mainline but who wants to make good games?

>>33379116
This, and if they go too far not only will people still hack, but those who enjoy the process of getting good Pokemon and find it rewarding will now find it boring and unrewarding... while hackers still hack, so no one wins.

They haven't crossed that line yet I think, but SM's Heart Scale changes came pretty damn close.

>>33379117
Spin-off games make me sad. They make me realize how bottom of the barrel mainline games are and how good they could be at the hands of other developers.

>>33379116
There will always be people who hack don't get me wrong, but the leap in convenience from Gen V to Gen VI was not insignificant.

Gen VI REALLY made it easy to get 5IV, correct natured mon and EV train them. No jump in convenience in any previous gen matches it.

Once 5 IV legends are convenient to catch and as the legality checks keep incrementally improving I'm sure it will all balance out.

>>33377746
>Gym leaders and E4 only having 3 and 4 Pokemon
(although rematches and N battles were pretty good)
>Most of the dex was literally Kanto copypasta, which also started the "round, chubby and unnatural" formula for next generations
(Still, many of the new Pokemon felt fresh and had some amazing designs)
>Very linear
(although places like the desert, the caves and the post-game routes and cities felt pretty damn cool and kept the adventure alive)
>No new Pokeballs; Apricorn Balls weren't aviable
>Contest's replacement was bland dogshit

I think Unova is quite overrated. It's amazing and brought many cool features to the franchise, like the "choose which E4 member you'd like to battle first", "Gym leader's last Pokemon theme", "Stop that annoying beep sound when you're on low health".

BW2, on the other hand, fixed pretty much everything BW1 did wrong. It also gave great rewards for completing the Pokedex, added more characters and areas, old Pokemon, PWT, Pokestar Studios, animations for every trainer, and move tutors. It's by far one of the best Pokemon games, but BW1 weren't really interesting at all (besides the story, which is the only reason why fans keep cocksucking Unova)

>>33379152
I think the overratedness of Unova is due to BW2 being so good and making everyone forgive the faults of BW. When someone compliments Unova, they aren't thinking at all about all the shitty parts of BW.

>>33379116
Easier than ever doesn't means it's accessible in any way, especially with how ridiculous the power creep is now.

A less than perfect pokemon in RB/GS would beat their prey almost all the time. A less than perfect pokemon in SM will get outsped and OHKOed, or not have enough power to OHKO and get OHKOed back.

When matches are so volatile, having a perfect pokemon is more important than ever which overshadows their attempts to make it easier and leads people to hack.

That's not even getting into the mess that hidden abilities created

>>33377859
This. This comment made me think a lot. It makes me wonder if Pokeride was actually a good idea, because it made absolutely easy to explore in Alola, and took away the need to teach some of your Pokemon HMs to get through certain areas and discover certain places.

Back in Kanto, Cut was used a lot for shortcuts and access to certain areas. Considering how shitty every Pokemon was without TMs and how early Cut is given in the game, it's actually a pretty Ok move (at least in Gen 1). But nowadays, a 50 points 95 accuracy move is pretty bad compared to 80 points 100 accuracy Strengh, or Surf, Dive, Dig, Rock Climb, Waterfall, Defog and Fly. Same goes for Rock Smash and Whirpool, which are pretty useless moves in a competitive team and in the main story.

Maybe Pokeride isn't the answer. Maybe updating the bad HMs is what they'd have done before. Or maybe a mix of both, where you can use Pokeride for most places, but to access certain areas you need specific moves. Also, the need of 3 Water HMs and 3 Normal HMs makes it pretty annoying, making you use a Water Pokemon just to make it an HM Slut. Doing something like "Your Surf Pokemon needs to be x level to dive / take a waterfall!" would work.

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>>33378231
To be honest, anon, I was in college when Gen 3 came out and I have the fondest memories of it. That game became an awesome way to bond with all the other nostalgia fags in my dorm who played Gens 1 and 2 in junior high/high school. We abused the hell out of secret bases, flashcarts, and all of that other shit to train max level fully EV trained teams and have competitive battles. We discovered Smogon together and used NetBattle to prebuild our teams. Gens 3 and Gen 4 were the only generations I seriously committed any time toward training a competitive team and battling my friends. It also helped we held gaming competitions on campus all the time, so there were plenty of people who would show up for Goldeneye or Melee and we could convince to pick up a copy of RSE. When DP came out, and I was just out of college, we all kept it up online. I also got in touch with a high school friend I used to play GSC with and we created a group of guys and girls who'd get together once a week to play Battle Revolution, Brawl, whatever flavor of the week game we had on hand, and watch a shitton of bad movies. By the time BW came out, I was living out of state and everyone else had real jobs. I remember hacking a competitive team just to play my friends, because I had no time to train one. But we never found time to play. Sure, we connected once in a while to chat about the game at bars or at someone's house, but nobody played it together. I ended up playing BW2 with my students more than I did my own friends. Then, XY and SM I just played by myself, only battling randoms online and once in a blue moon catching up with the old gang to chat about things we liked. The only person I traded with in X was my friend's wife; my copy of Sun shows 0 interactions.

I'll never recapture the magic that was Gen 3 and Gen 4. Those were the fucking days. Now I'm just some grandpa reminiscing on a goblin trapping fan forum on this silly little Siamese photo swapping app.

>>33375830
>lol, you're the savior of the universe, now the champion Cynthia will help you explore this dimension
fuck off Sinnohfetuses

>>33379289
fuck off anti-sinnohfag

>>33379289
>saviour of the universe
you mean giratina? mc literally did nothing
>cynthia
you mean lake trio? cynthia literally did nothing

>>33379267
>tfw lived in third world and never had anyone to play Pokemon with

It's depressing, in high school people would talk about Pokemon because it was still big here, but people only watched the anime, no one knew the games even existed. I'd bring up the fact that I played the games and one guy asked "do you play as Ash?" and I've never forgotten that guy and that question, I experienced cringe for the first time probably and I never got over it.

Anyway, long story short is that I played alone in gen 2-3 and only had Stadium 2 to give me any real challenge until Emerald with the Battle Frontier, and then gen 4 with online which was a complete life-changing thing to me in Pokemon as you can imagine, I promptly joined online communities/forums and battled in leagues and such, was absolutely the golden age of the franchise for me. But in terms of actual local social interaction it was never something accessible to me, Pokemon games were obscure here despite the anime and other media being huge.

>>33379321
>mc literally did nothing
You know, he defeated the evil guy, the generic "let's take over the universe" plot
>you mean lake trio
The legendary Mews are there too. There is no exploration, it's part of the generic plot.

>>33379257
Maybe field moves shouldn't be constrained to teaching the move itself. They should be like Pokemon Ranger. You just need a pokemon capable of accomplishing the task. Maybe turn them into a group of skills people teach you as reach further in the game so you don't have them all right off the bat. Any constraint that limits when you can use them.

>>33379225
Yeah, BW1 felt pretty much like every non-third game which always gets bashed, so they're nothing special really.

>>33379343
I can see something like needing a Water Pokemon to Surf and stuff, using a Flying or Fire Pokemon to cut/incinerate a tree, or an Electric or Psychic Pokemon to light a cave. This would actually work pretty well.

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>>33379289
>>33379339
Giratina had already fucked up Cyrus' plans. All you did climb a mountain and beat the shit out of his pokemon. He had already failed before you whooped his ass. Then he settled to just say fuck you to all the normies and stayed in the Distortion World. Cynthia was just there and the pixies gave you a hint to solving one puzzle.
>You will never randomly encounter a strange, scary, blue haired man in a future gen game
>He will never battle you and give you an Adamant/Lustrous/Griseous Orb for beating him
>He will never fuck off into a creepy empty cave only for him to disappear when you follow him in

>>33379397
>This would actually work pretty well
This fact just depresses me even more. Absolutely fuck Gamefreak. Why can't they just hire us.

>>33379491
>Giratina had already fucked up Cyrus' plans. All you did climb a mountain and beat the shit out of his pokemon. He had already failed before you whooped his ass.
If this is true, why do you battle him?
>Cynthia was just there
Cynthia was there to make kids not be afraid.
>You are in a strange dimension, but don't worry, the champion is here with you!

Try to understand, OP's picture is about exploration =/= forced plot. Distortion world is a forced plot. And the most generic plot ever, a guy trying to take over the universe.

>>33379397
>>33379343
To keep up with the sense of progression it should be accessed after a badge or misc mcguffin

>>33375770
This. OP is a casualfag who probably still watches the anime.

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>>33379519
>Distortion world is forced plot
He's still a madman out to enslave legendary pokemon to recreate the reality. And you still intend to stop him. Giratina fucked up his initial plan but you don't know his plans are all fucked up until you get to him in the Distortion World. He's so desperate he intends to fight Giratina thinking it could help him achieve his plans so you kick his ass one last time. After that Giratina is still pissed and you wanna go home so you fight it too. It's not forced anything. The Distortion World itself was a decent enough dungeon to figure out as you progressed through it. There was more than just that one boulder puzzle the pixies assisted you in.

And really, as generic as world domination is, Cyrus isn't so one note. He's a sociopathic outcast of a person who just outright can't feel emotions like others do. He can't cope with being such an incredible sociopath that he attempts to recreate reality by seizing godly power. He completely fucks up and decides to stay in a world void of anything as it's more comfortable to him than the regular world. He's right under Giovanni and Lusamine as the most compelling villain. He literally just has extreme autism and it's amazing. Some villains are just fucking genuinely batshit and not right in the head.

>>33379559
Oh, yes. Well, if they do the "this Pokemon won't obey you until you have a certain amount of badges", they can do a "this Pokemon became so strong it can now do certain stuff!" or something like that. IDK but if you put a condition then it'd work.

>>33379652
And it's still a forced plot. It's not hard for you to understand.
>it's amazing
It's generic. How do you make a bad guy? The guy is trying to take over the world/universe. There are countless villains like this.

>>33378205
>That's not Sinnoh

The too much water criticism wasn't a meme, bub.

>>33379671
Not >>33379652 , but that's basically how every Pokemon main villian works. Aqua and Magma were plain stupids, and I gotta admit Plasma was the most interesting one, but still was the same "MUH LEGENDARY PORKYMAN TO CONKER HTE REGION!!1" shit with different costumes.

>>33379671
Then by that logic, nothing is original and therefore nothing can be good. Why do you play pokemon of all things? I'm sorry the only media you can appreciate are ageless cave paintings.

>>33379694
I agree with you. GF can't write plots for pokemon.
>>33379710
Seriously, do you understand what this thread is about? Look again at OP's image. It's about exploration and not a forced and stupid plot.
> I'm sorry the only media you can appreciate are ageless cave paintings
Now you're without arguments and just shitposting.

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>>33379267
I was around for Pokemania, but I was so much more interested in Digimon and Dragonball at the time. I didn't play Pokemon until Gold and Silver came out. The next 3 years would define the golden age of Pokemon for me, as I got really into trading mons, getting info on certain mon locations like Heracross who I loved from the anime, an expansion pak and Stadium 2, and had a major blast playing it.

Around 2003, I couldn't get a gamboy advance since I had only a choice between it and Ps2. I got the ps2 and so never experienced gen 3 in its initial entirety.

I also got into Yugioh at around the same time and that basically dominated my preteen interest, until I became a /v/fag and was playing and discovering a bunch of game franchise outside Nintendo. I never really thought of pokemon too much. I'd see tidbits about the anime or the spin offs in commercials, but didn't really pay attention.

I got Heartgold and a DS for my birthday and was shocked, and all the memories from gen 2 started rushing through. I then got Platinum, later played a bunch of Gen 5, and even loved the designs and linearity. Maybe its because I was coming back fresh, but I had so much fun with Gen 5 during my late highschool days.

I was hyped as fuck for XY, It was around that time I started posting here. I played it a bunch, but megas were the biggest fucking mistake I've seen and the games were piss easy. I was actually pretty indifferent about ORAS, but it felt new to me since I didn't play Gen 3. It was fun, but that whole year of no game release really hurt my enjoyment.

Now I just occasionally play here and there. I haven't bothered with Sun and Moon since it looked real trash from a walkthrough I saw. I'm taking a break from the series outside reminiscent discussions of pass gens and games like these.

>>33379732
Exactly. Pokemon's supposed to be about exploring a new world/region, discovering every possible secret, catching rare Pokemon and obtaining exclusive items not every player would know about because they didn't look after the main story, and interacting with other people in order to know mysteries and obtain exclusive Pokemon from the other version.

In Kanto, for example, no one tells you where Mewtwo is, you need to literally go back to the 4th city in the game and surf to a previously blocked path, and to get Pokemon like Eevee you had to visit a certain part of a certain building, not just a simple NPC forcing you to accept it. In Alola, Looker literally tells you where to catch the UBs, and if you faint them, you don't even need to exit the area to make them respawn, and in Kalos they literally give you two starters at the beginning of the game.

Exploration and adventures get lost to appeal to a forced and repetitive story that doesn't fit to Pokemon, because their target audience are kids for the main story and older people for competitive gameplay, so kids just go for a linear experience and adults just want to battle. They don't have the perfect mix they had until gen V.

>>33379732
Alright I realized I misinterpreted your sentiment as particularly criticizing DPPt's story rather than overbearing plots in general. My bad. But even then, this happens in every generation. Climb a mountain and fight the bad guy. Happened in Gen 2 to 4. Gen 5 is where plot really gets shoved down your throat. Distortion World really isn't that bad compared to all the Plasma bullshit and N sobbing in Unova. It's just a cool interesting dungeon. Maybe if they added items to find and allowed you to return to it, it would feel more fulfilling to you. I liked it.

>>33379680
If Hoenn water pokemon weren't so incredibly repetitive I would appreciate the ocean half of the region more. It's all pretty well laid out and fun to explore. Especially with diving and the strong current area.

>>33375800
ruby and saphire were trash, after the elite 4 there was only a battle tower and lati@s/rayquaza and most of your pokemon would be at their late 40s. Emerald had way more things and also battle frontier

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>>33381325

gen 5 was the best IMO

>great pokemon designs (hydreigon, volcarona, kyurem, escavalier etc)
>diverse landscapes
>most morally gray evil team
>great antagonist
>forced you to learn about new pokemon
>good post game
>good remakes

only bad thing I'd say is some shit pokemon design like the monkeys and vaniluxe and bad rivals

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>>33382216
>gen 5
>remakes

>>33378675
if you can genuinely show any routes or dungeons in Gen 6 and 7 comparable to the earlier ones then maybe you can talk

>>33375572
good taste