ITT: A few anons work to edit ROMs to change evolution paths

Please.
Fucking.
Don't.

If I wanted to play a digimon game with pokemon mechanics, I would just grab the DS ones.

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>>33375081
The current idea is to split all Pokemon into tiers and then link each Pokemon to a number of evolutions in tiers above.

I'm wondering now how best to deal with the fact that Pokemon evolving into ones with different exp curves apparently causes problems. I'm not sure exactly what would happen but the randomizer explicitly mentions it's unwise. Either I could try it out and see what fucks up, or I could edit all Pokemon to have the same exp curve.

>>33375081
This seems like a shitty idea.

>>33375097
There has to be some way to edit which curve is used, right?

>>33375138
Yeah, it'd be pretty simple to do, it's just a bit more intrusion into normal game mechanics. I just wonder which people would mind more.

>>33375133
>>33375092
No need to stay in this thread then, friend :)

>>33375081
Please, at least replace Trading Evolution with ones that make sense.

>>33375097
Just give every mon the medium slow curve.

>>33375097
I'm pretty sure that's because a Pokemon's level is determined by its total exp. For different curves, they will be at different levels with the same amount of exp

>>33375417
This, I've seen it happen with badly made romhacks.

>>33375417
>>33375421
I was wondering if that was the case. I may use >>33375227 as the solution then

>>33375417
I already tried this, the pokemon adjust to their new curve, keeping the same amount of experience.

I think it's interesting, and more dynamic that way

>>33375417
>>33375421
>>33376352
So you're telling me if I evolved - idk - a Sawsbuck into a Cobalion, that it would go from level 60 or whatever to level 50 or whatever?

Honestly, that makes it feel like some other RPG I've played before. Where when the thing in question changes it has its own level instead of staying the same level.

I know I'm just a random opinion, but I'd be fine with either method - changing them all to the same curve or leaving them be.

>>33376404
I think you could make it work, as long as it followed a general trend of lower tier=faster curve, higher tier=slower curve. Then you would only run into skipping levels if you did shit to devolve

Don't forget to change their stats.

>>33376735
???

>>33376846
For those interested, what ROM are people most interested in being modified this way? I'm limited to things prior to 3DS, so anything between RB to BW2.

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Some basic proof of concept. It was actually pretty easy to set this up.

>>33377933
The guy who made the previous thread was working with a program to change the 3ds games, but yeah, this is pretty easy to do with the GBA games in particular, there are editors that can do all of this stuff already. I've never fiddled with anything more than the encounter tables, but the options are all there

>>33379799
I'm just editing the source code of the Universal Pokemon Randomizer. I've got a .csv file set up now that sets all of the evolutions, so it's fairly easy to edit. Just have to choose what evolutions to set up now.

I'm very happy to hear people's opinions or feedback on this concept, for instance there are questions of whether to preserve canon evolution paths (other than changing trade evos to other shit), whether to keep a consistent number of Pokemon in each "tier", whether to keep things strictly tiered off, whether to let different Pokemon evolve into the same one, etc.

>>33379817
I kind of think if you're going to go to all the trouble of setting up these tiers, then leaving in all the canon evolutions of mons that would result in them skipping tiers all the time kind of defeats the purpose. I think that rather than just skipping to canon evolutions if they would hop tiers, the lines should be set up in a way that their canon evolution is basically just really easy to get to once you reach that tier

>>33379870
Tiers are just a starting point, but I agree with you. In actuality, I'm probably going to just put all the basic starters and pseudos in a tier together and then just start building up from there, possibly with a "baby" tier below that.

How do people feel if there are Pokemon that evolve functionally identical to another? Like, hypothetically, if Sentret and Bidoof evolved into the exact same Pokemon, would that bother anyone? I'm just expecting a ton of overlap between route 1 shitmons and the like

>>33380061
Worse than the rodent shitmons, all the shitty worm Pokemon are practically going to be exactly the same. They'll all evolve into one of the shitty cocoons. I guess they might each have like one other thing they can turn into just to set them a tiny bit apart

>>33375081
Any similar charts for bugs worked out?

>>33381816
Not that I know of. Not sure I'll be using that chart either, it's mostly just an example.

>>33380786
This seems wise. All of the shitbugs can evolve into very similar pokemon, with one or two special evolutions unique to each bug. Maybe keep the cocoons dedicated to just their original prevo? (ie the only Pokemon that evolves into Metapod is Caterpie?)

Here's my rough draft for the "starter" tier, that includes all starter and pseudo basics. There'll probably be a tier below this one for "babies", and most basic evolving Pokemon will fall into one of these two or the tier above starters, for somewhat more "advanced" basic Pokemon.

Bulbasaur
Charmander
Squirtle
Pikachu
Sandshrew
Clefairy
Oddish
Venonat
Psyduck
Mankey
Poliwag
Abra
Machop
Bellsprout
Geodude
Slowpoke
Magnemite
Doduo
Seel
Grimer
Shellder
Gastly
Krabby
Exeggcute
Cubone
Goldeen
Eevee
Dratini
Chikorita
Cyndaquil
Totodile
Natu
Snubbull
Remoraid
Smoochum
Larvitar
Treecko
Torchic
Mudkip
Gulpin
Carvanha
Numel
Swablu
Corphish
Baltoy
Snorunt
Bagon
Beldum
Turtwig
Chimchar
Piplup
Shellos
Glameow
Bronzor
Mime Jr.
Gible
Croagunk
Snivy
Tepig
Oshawott
Pansage
Pansear
Panpour
Woobat
Timburr
Sewaddle
Darumaka
Dwebble
Yamask
Minccino
Ducklett
Vanillite
Karrablast
Joltik
Ferroseed
Klink
Axew
Cubchoo
Shelmet
Golett
Deino

>>33382243
To clarify, this is basically just the Pokemon who have BSTs within the range of starter and pseudo basics (from 300 to 325, in order to include Eevee, which also feels like it belongs in the "my first Pokemon" tier.

>>33382243
Looks good. Teiring out who's going to evolve into what is the hardest part of this

>>33380786
I'd have, for example, Weedle able to turn into Pokemon like Cacnea and Nidoran, while Caterpie can only turn into the four shitty cocoons. I'd also modify the shitty cocoons so that the Pokemon they hatch into is randomly determined. Nearly every bug Pokemon in the next tier can potentially hatch from one of four cocoons, but you have no way to control what pops out. Wurmple just evolves into non-cocoon bugs in the next tier.

How do you plan to do this ? Only in function of their look or in function of the egg group they're in ?
And how to you plan to manage the eggs ? and the pokemon of the rival ?

>>33375081
You probably shouldn't do this with a randomiser for the normal games but instead make a romhack based on your idea, since it seems kind of impossible to integrate to the normal game

>>33382906
>>33382928
All I'm planning on doing is changing the evolution paths. The way I'm doing this is to re-write the "Randomize Evolutions" function in Universal Pokemon Randomizer to instead set specifically chosen evolutions. Everything else will be handled however Universal Randomizer handles it. I don't know what it'll do in regards to eggs, rival Pokemon etc.

I am not basing this off of egg groups very much, or at all. Mostly off of visual appearance, or perhaps similar types/abilities/movesets.

A question: Should legendary Pokemon be allowed to evolve further? What about pseudo-legends? Should legendary Pokemon be removed from evolution, or should each non-legendary final form have one path to a legendary evolution or the like? Should a pseudo like Salamence be allowed to evolve further, into something like Rayquaza?

>>33377862
Gen 5, B2W2 preferably.

>>33383186
Okay, make sense
About the legendary pokemon, I don't think they should be able to evolve further and the pseudo should be able to evolve into a legendary under special condition that can be difficult to met

>>33383186
I think most lines should have a path to a legendary mon.

It'd be cool to raise a Trapinch into a Groudon

Putting legendary evolutions at the end of most lines makes sense, but for something like Articuno, which has a BST of 580, you can't put that after something like Metagross with BST 600 (not that you would, but). So it may end up being that, given two 500 BST Pokemon, one would evolve directly into a trio legendary, whereas another might evolve into a pseudo, and then again into a box legendary, which gives that Pokemon one more evolution. Does that seem fair?

btw, once the first draft of the paths is done and I post it, it will be super open for debate, this is just to get a general sense of what people would enjoy.

>>33383208
That's my default plan, actually, cool.

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>>33381816
not the person working on the rom or whatever but I put this together the other day. It's just an example and currently you can't really get mega evos to work like this.

I like the idea of them being able to split into other things (like weedle to cacnea) but I kept it restricted to bug types

>>33383255
Not to mention no access to gen 6 or 7, but yeah, I love this example.

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>>33383290
I mean vivillion is gen 6 and the UBs are 7. If anything gen 2 got the shit end of the stick haha.

I would have added more but it was getting really big and I was trying to keep sides evenish

>>33383290
>>33383421
Unless you're talking about the editor not having access to 6 + 7. The person I'm talking about is using pk3ds so they are working with either a gen 6 or 7 game.

>>33383186
Delibird should definitely evolve into Articuno under some weird condition

>>33383421
>>33383437
Yeah, I'm a different guy doing stuff for RBY -> BW2 emulation. That other guy hasn't posted since the first thread I don't think, but I like the idea enough to try it out here.

>>33383513
Yeah, I'm all for weird tier-skipping in some cases.

>>33383545
Ohh okay, yeah I made these lines on that persons thread .

Are you doing the RBY -> BW2 because the other person is already doing current gen, or do you not have access to/want to edit, the current gen stuff?

>>33375081
How does the "evolution by learned move" thing work?

For example, you have a Cacnea.

>what happens if it knows both Leech Seed and Synthesis
>what happens if you give an unevolved Cacnea with Leech Seed a Micle Berry at Level 70 and try to evolve it

>>33383571
Yeah I don't know anything about pk3ds, or about 3ds emulation, but I know my way around gb/gba/ds emulation and the universal randomizer which only works for those games.

>>33383588
It'll probably just find either the first or the last condition that matches and use that.
t. Computer Scientist who doesn't know about the internals of ROMs but can make educated guesses.

>>33383588
I'm pretty sure you can set priority, either just by order or an actual value

>>33383615
Have you done anything with 3DS hacking?

https://3ds.guide/
>>>/vg/187110476
You can get a good start here.

You don't even have to emulate the hacks you make with pk3ds, you can pretty much just patch it on to your digital or cartridge games

https://projectpokemon.org/forums/forums/topic/40238-pok%C3%A9mon-nova-sun-umbra-moon-fully-featured-challenging-sunmoon-romhacks/

Just as an example, you can see the different ways to install these kinds of mods.

>>33383694
I think I'll get BW2 working first, but then I'll look into this if other anon doesn't make his way back here before then.

>>33383255
Don't overdo it
You could indeed relate the burmy to the vivillon line, but most of the others make no sense

>>33383513
delibird looks nothing like articuno

>>33384182
>>33384204
Anon, I think you are missing the point of all this

>>33384218
Then it is garbage that breaks canon instead of building on it
You could fix stuff like Carnivine, Maractus, Boufallant and Heatmor not being in involved in lines, while clearly looking like others
Also this could help with including all pokemon in most recent gens without overcrowding the grass

>>33384231
It's not meant to be canon, you dense fuck. It's just for fun

>>33384235
It could help with what I said, so consider it like this

>>33384263
magby to charmander is dumb because they look both the same size and power
also moltres from a dragon?
entei from a humanoid and a slug?

>>33384265
>just random pokemon thrown together

>>33384274
The genies maybe, but the rest of those are clearly grouped on the basis that they are monkeys

>>33384269
>>33384274
Do you know how digimon works?

>>33383992
>>33383545
I am here, maybe I should get a trip for this thread idk

>>33384579
Sure, that might help clear up confusion

>>33384231
I don't think you realize how digimon evolution works.

>>33384231
>>33384182
>>33384204
There will be changes of the type you're talking about, but this is intending to make things a bit more interconnected than just fixing a few of GF's mixups. The digimon stuff posted is maybe a little bit wild, but it's closer to what I'm intending.

>>33384593
Anyways, I'm going to probably scrap what I have currently (didn't get too far.) and probably work from the bottom of the evolution chain up. There's enough Pokemon as of Gen 7 that I should be able to have every Pokemon evolve into eachother.

I still want to be able to evolve down a level if need be, maybe some charts will be required.

>>33384756
I'm going to work independently on my own tree for the time being, and we can compare notes later. I'm not such a big fan of de-evolving or of care mistakes, but we'll see.

>>33384766
I'm going to scrap the care mistakes, only because they're too easily avoided.

I do like the devolving though because you can add harder evolution routes that reward hard work from the player.

Before I reset my file, I went ahead and dumped the file to txt to see what the output looked like.

Here's absol as an example:

======
359 Absol
======
Used Item [Fire Stone] into Houndoom
Level Up with 50 Affection + MoveType [Fighting]@ level 48 into Lucario
Level Up with Move [Flash]@ level 45 into Ampharos
Used Item [Revive] into Ditto
Used Item [Max Revive] into Ditto
Used Item [Revival Herb] into Ditto
Level Up (Random < 5) @ level 45 into Umbreon
Level Up (Random > 5) @ level 45 into Espeon

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>>33384182
have you ever actually seen digimon? I kept mine tame in comparison...

>>33384316

Those images dont even follow digimon evolution lines. Theyre trash.

>>33384936
Expound?

>>33377933
I hope Mew ends up being a mon you cannot evolve another mon into, but instead can evolve into any of the base mons through non level means, as a reference to how it is the ancestor Pokemon

>>33384870

This image is just cyber sleuth mons and even then its simplified so you dont see how similar biologies run parallel

Like Greymon is the dominant line but runs parallel with the Tyrannomon line and Dramons. There is actually a gradient here from Lizards to Machine. Just like theres gradients across insectoids, nature, and aquatic mons.

Digimon evolutions are not just a vague mash-up of random animals, there is actually a reasoning to this.

This is fine
>>33375081
>>33383255
>>33383421
>>33384321
>>33384327

These are not
>>33384263
>>33384265
>>33384276
>>33384286

>>33384978

See

>>33384993

>>33375081
Feel like the cotteene evolving into shaymin makes more sense than cacturne

>>33384989
I think both pk3ds and the ROMs have evolution limits, unfortunately. So you can't have a Pokemon evolve into more Pokemon than the most evolutions (ie however many Eevee has that generation, so 3 in Gen I, 5 in Gens II and III, 7 in Gens IV and V, and 8 in Gens VI and VII)

>>33384756
Maybe make devolving require the mon being at its highest form and talking with an NPC? Or could have it that they use a faster level curve and the mons need to be at level 100, and every devolve back to baby unlocks a new tier to that mon?

Some ideas

>>33384993
Okay, but I was just pointing out that >>33383255
makes more sense than a lot of digimon evolutions.

You went from saying it made no sense to saying it's fine. Are you here to troll or are you going to give any consistent constructive criticism?

>>33385018
Additionally in the 3DS games, Mega evolution only lets you change forms, not entire species. So I can make the deoxys forms mega evolutions, but I can't make metapod mega into Butterfree for example.

>>33385042
Way too much would need to be changed to make that work.

Right now I have it as use rage candy bar. That will bring it back to its previous (canon) form, so you can jump around evolution lines if you want.

Here's what I have so far for the bulbasaur line

======
1 Bulbasaur
======
Level Up at Cold @ level 14 into Snover
Level Up with Move [Sweet Scent]@ level 16 into Bayleef
Level Up at Forest @ level 17 into Grotle
Level Up @ level 16 into Ivysaur

======
2 Ivysaur
======
Level Up with Held Item (Day) [Nanab Berry]@ level 30 into Tropius
Level Up @ level 32 into Venusaur
Used Item [Rage Candy Bar] into Bulbasaur

======
3 Venusaur
======
Used Item [Rage Candy Bar] into Ivysaur
Level Up at Morning with Friendship @ level 80 into Xerneas

>>33385043

Im not the one that said the wurmple line was bad. Only that the magby/darumakka lines were.

I only argued that >>33384870 was a bad example.

>>33385108
My apologies, anonymous threads can get confusing

Alright, here's my current progress with the Kanto starters

======
1 Bulbasaur
======
Level Up at Cold @ level 14 into Snover
Level Up with Move [Sweet Scent]@ level 16 into Bayleef
Level Up at Forest @ level 17 into Grotle
Level Up @ level 16 into Ivysaur

======
2 Ivysaur
======
Level Up with Held Item (Day) [Nanab Berry]@ level 30 into Tropius
Level Up @ level 32 into Venusaur
Used Item [Rage Candy Bar] into Bulbasaur

======
3 Venusaur
======
Used Item [Rage Candy Bar] into Ivysaur
Level Up at Morning with Friendship @ level 85 into Xerneas-1

======
4 Charmander
======
Level Up with Move [Dig]@ level 24 into Gabite
Level Up with Move [Dragon Rage]@ level 28 into Fraxure
Level Up Female @ level 33 into Salazzle
Level Up @ level 16 into Charmeleon

======
5 Charmeleon
======
Level Up with Move [Slash]@ level 40 into Druddigon
Level Up @ level 36 into Charizard
Used Item [Rage Candy Bar] into Charmeleon

======
6 Charizard
======
Level Up with Party [Zekrom]@ level 85 into Reshiram
Used Item [Rage Candy Bar] into Charmeleon

======
7 Squirtle
======
Level Up with Move [Ancient Power]@ level 37 into Carracosta
Level Up with Party [Shellder]@ level 32 into Slowbro
Level Up with Held Item (Night) [Shed Shell]@ level 17 into Marshtomp
Level Up @ level 16 into Wartortle

======
8 Wartortle
======
Level Up with Move [Surf]@ level 30 into Lapras
Level Up @ level 36 into Blastoise
Used Item [Rage Candy Bar] into Squirtle

======
9 Blastoise
======
Overworld Rain @ level 85 into Kyogre
Used Item [Rage Candy Bar] into Wartortle