The holy trinity of human characters.

>>33362252
All three are criminals, they should rot in jail.

>>33362252
>Colress
Okay
>Emma
Okay
>Silver
Nah, he's not quite as entertaining or rounded as the other two are. Looker fits much better in that role.

Special mentions to N, AZ, Guzma, Nanu, Hapu, SM Anabel, Lusamine and Lillie.

Maybe Hau when you last battle him before the league.

>>33362291
Silver is the best of the three and overall just the single best character in the entire core series.

>>33362312
You are so obliviously wrong it's sad

>>33362325
No he is right Silver is the only Pokemon character with a worthy development

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>>33362252
>emma
>good

>>33362252
There is nothing holy anout Silver.
He originally hate weak Pokémon and weak People.

>>33362312
>"Hurr I treat Pokemon like slaves"
>"Hurr you beat me too many times, guess I have to treat my Pokemon with love"
What an interesting character

>>33362433
There was a good reason that he acted like that, and he learned not to do that over time, which is much more interesting than someone who does it from the start.

>>33362368
Silver's development is very basic and an echo of Blue.
>Kid wants tough pokemon to beat up his enemies
>Kid treats pokemon like shit because 'they're just tools'
>Kid gets wiped by rival at every turn
>Kid becomes more aggressive
>Kid still gets wiped by rival
>Kid eventually gets beaten into the ground enough times to realize he's being an ass to everyone around him
>Kid vows to do better and actually tries
It's fine for the basic plot of GSC (not sure how different it was for HGSS) but against more elaborate characters like Colress and Emma he falls flat.

>>33362252
>Silver
No, sorry, but no

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>>33362468
>elaborate character
>Colress

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>>33362482
>know your meme filename

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>>33362482
>>33362493

>>33362482
He didn´t say it was very elaborate
Both characters, Emma and Colress are very cliche, yeah
But Silver pale in comparison

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Not even close.

>>33362252
All human characters in the pokemon series are shit.

It's a shame Emma was eaten by Guzzlord.

>>33362493
https://archive.nyafuu.org/vp/thread/33344081/#33344173

>>33362514
Silver has way more peronality and more character development. I didn't played gen 2 games and HGSS too much but i still remember it's backstory and most of the things he does. As for Colress, im replaying Black2 right now for the 5-6th time and i still can't understand whatever the fuck is he supposed to be, what he does in team plasma? It's just garbage talk.

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>>33362573
That doesn't refute my point, you retard. You still saved it from KYM and not the source.

>>33362543
Steven has decent character, but he's pretty generic in how he acts. I'd say Wallace has more character than him.

Cynthia is at her best when lore and ruins, her forte, are involved.

Red is pure hype with no substance which is to be expected from a former player character.

>>33362603
I'm not a retard to just search on the whole archive, when i can just type "ElectroKek" on google images and get it instantly. The thing is that the Anon who made it is /ourguy/

>>33362573
>I didn't played gen 2
Then play it

>>33362628
This.

>>33362636
>too much

Why are people so desperate to oversimplify Silver's character arc so much? Jesus Christ. Are they just wilfully ignorant? Did they actually not play Gen 2 and only have second-hand knowledge of the character? Do they ignore the stuff HGSS added to him?

Here's a much better summary than a bait post like >>33362468

>kid is raised by a high profile criminal father who thinks Pokemon are a tool to make money
>father abandons him when he's still presumably around the age of 7-9

At this point in his life it has been instilled in Silver that power is the most important thing in the world, and he feels insecure because of neglect from his parent which causes him to lash out against others and abuse them.

>steals a Pokemon and sets out on a quest for power
>at this time he's a genuinely cruel, selfish and insecure person
>throughout a large portion of his journey in Johto he loses repeatedly to his rival and doesn't understand why the values he learned as kid don't apply to the world
>eventually gets destroyed by Lance and begins to truly question if his lifestyle is wrong, spending the rest of his time in Johto in confusion and denial
>begrudgingly starts to respect the player as shown when he admits that he thinks they would be able to beat the Kimono Girls

>at the end of Victory Road he finally begins to understand what he lacks and what Lance told him, and his tone and manner becomes noticeably less mean from this point
>after the encounter at Mt. Moon he goes to Dragon's Den for training where for the first time his starter follows him around outside of its Poke Ball
>after the final battle with him at the Pokemon League he has become considerate enough of others to apologize for getting in the way and reminding you to heal your Pokemon up
>returning to Elm's lab and speaking to him will reveal that Silver came back and tried to return the Pokemon he stole, but it looked so happy that Elm decided to let him keep it

>>33362716
This.
/thread

>>33362716
Is gen 2 so is shit anon, you din´t need to write an essay

>>33362716
>We will never have that much character development and meaning in rivals ever again
Feels bad

>>33362793
I'm sorry Silver didn't give you an exposition dump every other town.

>>33362291
>Guzma
>Nanu
>Hapu
>SM Anabel
>Lusamine
>Lillie
Are you fucking serious?

>>33362252
Where the fuck is Lillie?

Lillie is so much better and superior to the filthy inbred subhuman slut that calls itself Emma.

>>33362252
>Not including Cynthia
End yourself, faggot.

>>33362252
Bad and terrible choices honestly.

>>33362252
OG Silver>>>faggot pretty boy Silver

>>33362261
Not colress or Emily
Colress wanted to seek the power of the bond between trainer and Pokemon. Though its unsure really, he was always there to help you. I think he joined team plasma so he can seek more from you and your bond, purposely of course.
Emily was literally forced to do crime without knowing it

>>33362716
People oversimplify because at the base of it, Silver is a very simple character.
>his idol/object of respect is crushed before him
>becomes angsty and jaded
>protag and lance smack some sense into him
>now he's a nicer guy

You don't need to go into detail. Pokemon characters are more shallow than Naruto characters. That said, Silver is very enjoyable.

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>>33362433
Because Green/Blue was better?
They both learned their lesson, and got redeemed

>>33362716
>Did they actually not play Gen 2
Most of Silver's character that you described here came from HGSS and did not exist in GSC. In GSC, he was a far more simple character.

>>33365054
Different fag here
Well, so far, remakes are canon too anon

>>33364427
I like them plenty. In various ways, they managed to be entertaining, have decent character, tie into the myths and legends around them, or progress the story in a meaningful way.

You people overanalyze these characters. They're all as deep as a puddle, but from a design standpoint almost every Pokemon character looks nice, so it's a beautiful puddle.

PMD too, only this time they're a kiddy pool.

>>33365068
Haven't played them yet, to be honest. I assumed Silver was lifted and pasted into HGSS without much difference from his original self, apart from being Giovanni's son now.

That anon also argued that this was how Silver was to be interpreted in the originals, I feel that is not the case.

>>33365045
There's a lot of difference between Blue and Silver. Blue was never malicious or cruel, he was just cocky, smug and sure of himself. He calls Red his pal and only teases him with playful banter, but he does get so caught up in his talent at the end of the game that he briefly forgets to love his Pokemon.

Silver is outright selfish and abusive at the start of Gen 2 but gradually learns to become a good person. I'm not saying that either is better here, just that I don't think they should be compared because they're too different.

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Silver's quite simple but I don't hold that against him as a character, unfortunately you see angry little boys like him in real life all the time so even without the expanded backstory it's easy to understand where he's coming from. Sometimes simple is best.

>>33362558
I may be fat but I am NOT a Guzzlord, thank you very much.

none of those are cyrus

>>33365044
Every single character in existence can be summed up in a couple of simple bullet plot-points, anon.
It's the execution what really makes the difference

>>33362543
Steven has a memorable design, but acts very generic (vanilla champion: the personality)

>>33366703
Cyrus was a GOAT villain.

Whats so great about Colress? Hes the worst designed antagonist of any pokemon game. He tells you that he is part of the evil guys just right before you have the only meaningful battle during the whole story againt him. And right after that hes leaves Plasma. No spotlight at all if you ask me. I was very disappointed with him...

>>33362291
>Hapu
I don't even

>>33366728
He was funny when his father started to shame him in the Delta episode.

>>33365041
he still joined a criminal team and helped them trying to freeze the whole fucking region. How is that not a crime.

>>33362716
remakes aren't canon anon
it's different universes

>>33364427
t. Pokebarney

>>33367476
>being this wrong

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>>33362252
The Holy Trinity of Legs

>>33367476
Not only is this factually wrong as remakes are indeed canon(and their events/assets get referenced later instead of the originals) and only ORAS has been stated to happen on a different universe than RSE, but the fact that you mentioned different universes at all means you have no idea what the concept of canon means. Like most of /vp/ sadly.

>>33365662
> just that I don't think they should be compared because they're too different.
Part of the point of making a comparison is to do it with things that aren't the same but are different.

Agree with the rest.

>>33362438
This, Silver is probably the worst written character in the game; Gladion is a better "hostile rival"

>>33367529
shit taste

>>33367538
Mad because I insulted your trap girlfriend (male)?

>>33367529
Gladion was surprisingly friendly,Really disappointing if you were expecting a hostile rival, best thing he had was his pose which was never explained or used for a z-crystal.
Hau did it's job as a friendly rival better than Gladion did his as a hostile rival.

>>33367850
Gladion isn't a hostile rival, he's just a chuunibyou .

>>33362493
>throwing madoka into trash
kys

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>>33362291

You posted literally the worst characters of this Gen, This is sad

>>33362716
You left out the part where his pokemon evolved by friendship

>>33362291
>AZ
holy fuck, no dude. The rest are meh but he's just awful

>>33362543
Red has literally no characterisation whatsoever in the games, Steven is basically what >>33366728 said, and Cynthia is just FemSteven who likes mythology instead of geology.

>>33367529
See>>33362716
Gladion ain't shit.

>>33367885
>You posted literally the worst characters of this Gen
Huh. Why do you think so? None of them came across as particularly terrible or hindering to the story.

>>33367917
>but he's just awful
He's been handled horribly by XY but I found his concept, history and reunion to be really well crafted. I'd like to hear your opinion too.

>>33367529
Gladion doesn't only have a much worse character arc (if you can even call that an arc since he never develops), he also has a worse design and worse music.

>>33366713
Too bad Silver was executed very simply, too. All of those bullet points (except the first one, which you have to do the Celebi thing to find out) are directly handed to us in exposition.

>>33362252
>>33362261
Yall niggas forgot Leaf and Blue

>>33368308
And even then the player is pretty much told that first one directly in a short scene if they do the Celebi event

>>33368308
That's good, because Silver is going on his own adventure seperate from the MC, rather than having his universe centre on the MC's actions like many other rivals.

>>33368139
His concept alone is good. His history only exists to give us a reason for the weapon to exist and has no real bearing on the story otherwise, making me not connect to it. Due to this, the reunion fell flat. All of his concept is dumped on us in one sitting, ruining that as well.

>>33368506
Thats why I like Blue too, hes having his own adventure and you simply cross paths

>>33368139
not him but you posted Lillie, you should really consider suicune

>>33367949
>Red has literally no characterisation whatsoever in the games

Dude, he's the Jotaro Kujo of Pokemon.

>>33367496
Amen.

>>33368584
do you seriously think that?
gimme a break...

>>33362438
>goes entire game struggling to accept that his ideal about how to be strong is wrong
>a lot of his pokemom never evolve in any of the matches you have against him (magneton, sneasel, and particularly golbat who evolves through friendship)
>in the end you see him training with his fully evolved starter (out of the poke ball something you've never seen before) in dragons den
>you have a double battle with him as a partner against claire and lance
>his golbat evolved into crobat

I dont fucking care what anyone else says his growth is subtle and its great. He's my favorite rival. Bonus points that he usually gets paired up with my favorite starter (even tho typhlosion fits him better).

>>33368584
I wish, Red's more akin to Johnathan.
>first MC of the franchise
>not even close as exploited as he should despite this and overshadowed in popularity by another character

Granted, Jojo has it a bit better than pokemon in this regard.

>>33368997
How they use the game mechanics to reflect his growth is pretty neat. I think that's part of the reason some people consider him the best.

>>33368506
I would have liked it better if each time you spoke with him it didn't seem like a recapping monologue.

>>33368512
>His history only exists to give us a reason for the weapon to exist and has no real bearing on the story otherwise
But the story of XY is about the weapon, and the existence of Mega Evolution hinges on it. There is a place and purpose for his history in the plot.

I agree about the lore dump, though. It's a shame there was never a Z version to correct that.

And despite having the chance, ORAS never did anything substantial with him either.

>>33368565
Crystal was my first game so I really do like Suicune. Lillie is fine too, just shot by SM's terrible pacing.

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>>33369013
>not even close as exploited as he should despite this and overshadowed in popularity by another character
red shows up in almost every game, and in most media either as a direct counterpart or more loosely just as the kanto protagonist. the only character who i can think of being more popular is ash, who has the same role as he does.
also, johnathan is in a bad spot because he never had a stand and died at the end of his part, and there's nothing they can do to re-introduce him because then had his body taken away by dio. at least johnny gets a break

>>33362716
That's just random details. Just posting the highlights alone can make Sasuke or even fucking Kirito look interesting and deep. Because with the same details, you can, technically, make a better character, so details will always look good. This applies to Silver. He MIGHT have the details needed to be a good character, but he wasn't. He was an extremely shit character, because he was barely a character.

A character needs a personality. You need to see that character, see how he acts and thinks, see him encounter new situations and how he reacts. That's a personality. Silver reports his personality to you. That's not a personality. That's a shit. He tells you he loves power, he tells you he hates weak people, he just tells you everything.

When he supposedly encounters Lance, he doesn't "develop". He just randomly changes. Development is only good when you see it. When you see a character, see his world views, personality, strengths and weakness, then see him encounter a obstacle or event that makes him question his views or powers, after which he struggles to understand or get stronger, in the end failing or succeeding, but ultimately "growing". NONE of that happens with Silver. He reports to you he lost to Lance and doesn't understand why in 2 lines and fucks off. In the next few encounters, he repeats he doesn't understand and then he reports he does understand.

This is not a character. A writer would bitch slap you if you call this is a character, because it makes their job look like a joke. I could write a character with more details using half the dialogue Silver has. Literally anyone can. You can. My 6 year old daughter can. A character is about execution. What you posted are the details. They mean nothing when literally all of them are given to you in an exposition dump. Even Blue was better character, because at least he didn't describe his personality to you. At least he had a personality. Silver is just the most overrated shit.

>>33365044
At least someone gets it.

>>33368506
>a character is told entirely in exposition dumps
>that's good
I know Pokemonfags have low standards for these things, but that's just pathetic. You're calling objectively shit writing good.

>>33362252
>Silver
ok
>Colress
ok
>Emma
b8/10

>>33367496
>Cynthia
Legs covered.
>Lusamine
Bony knees
Legs covered
40+ years old.

The correct order is:
Korrina
Dawn
Serena

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>>33368584
>>33369677
Jotaro is a very clever, brutally honest and easily irritable guy who has an immense sense of humor behind his stoneface. He's honestly kinda genuinely autistic in the way he acts. He's pretty similar to Red in regards to being the badass, intimidating face of the series but Red is pretty overall characterless.

>>33370018
>When you see a character, see his world views, personality, strengths and weakness, then see him encounter a obstacle or event that makes him question his views or powers, after which he struggles to understand or get stronger, in the end failing or succeeding, but ultimately "growing".
That's pretty hard to do in something as purposefully simple as a Pokemon game. Out of curiosity, what character would you say fits these criteria the most?

>>33370029
unless you expect the game to Lillie it up and just stop focusing on you for a bit, that's how you're going to learn about a character that is literally going on a journey entirely seperate from yout own

>>33370018
you're asking for characters that exist outside the bounds of this franchise

>>33372677
Well, a lot of new characters fit this criteria. I wouldn't call most of them "good", but they exist. I'd put Cheren's encounter with Alder and Bianca's encounter with her dad here. Those scenes are pretty shit, with Bianca's being shit for having some character conflict resolved by random passing by stranger out of nowhere, with no real consequences and literally nothing changing with it, and Cheren's being bad because of the subject matter, how they somehow make Cheren not only fail to understand the most obvious thing, but then having him mule over that every time you meet him afterwards. I still hated those scenes, but at least they were scenes. You see them. It was bad development because rather than making me understand or like him, it made dislike Cheren because I found his struggle pointless and boring, but it still did everything development needs and I can see why someone might even like it.

If this was Silver, he would meet you in the next city, tell you he fought a "bug trainer", he lost, and now he doesn't understand why he wants to get stronger. Comparatively, that's such a shit thing. Because I CANNOT give shits about this. He's just coming in to report something that has nothing to do with you. You don't have any reasons to give any shits about this because it might not even have happened for all you care. In Cheren's case, you fought alongside him. He was pretty much made fun of by fighting little kids. You see how it happened, how Alder slowly got under Cheren's skin, and if at that point, you like Cheren somehow, you will care about that.

The newer games are full of what I'd call good development. Especially SM. This in turn caused more cutscenes, scenes where characters are talking to each other and not just reporting to you. Some might hate that, understandably enough, but as far as characters go, that helps make them that much better. Gladion is a particular good example of a loner type, evil team boss's kid with stolen Pokemon.

>>33373324
What makes Gladion better again is that he doesn't report everything and you get to know him. The reason he ran away from home and choice this lifestyle, you can understand that. He literally had no other choice. Because you meet the nutcase that is Lusamine. You see her, experience why exactly would someone want to run away from her. You can sympathize with Gladion on his decision.

When he meets you, he pretty never does so alone. There is someone else there, so he can talk and react to something other than you beating him. He does outright report anything to you, not even his identity. He's forced to reveal it because of an event, Lillie's kidnapping. You see him struggle and be unable to protect those he wants to protect. He loses. You see him rely on "friendship" and other people. Again, he never just says "now I will depend on you". He just does. Over time, he learns and grows. He starts depending on Hau and you. By the end, he even starts depending on Lillie to take care of Lusamine, even though she is powerless.

He grows alongside everyone like a person would. He stops caring solely about power and protection. He stops caring only about himself and Null. And there is not a single thing you don't see in all of this. And you can sympathize with him in everything because of that. And none of it is instantaneous. When Lillie gets kidnapped, he only really relies on you because he doesn't have a choice. He must. Even then, he still tries to do most of the work alone. He rushes to fight Guzma by himself, for example. He just loses. He is then forced to rely on you again. Repeating this process is what made him understand, along with a hundred other interactions with you that slowly build up trust. He isn't told to do it by a random caped guy you never see and he doesn't just off screen gets friendlier.

>>33362543
>Steven
>Even RSE Steven as a member of Holy Trinity
I'm sorry wat?

>>33362252
Muh Nigga.

>>33373324
>>33373355
This anon knows

>>33373723
He knows jack shit