Infinite TMs

>>33357176
I honestly think it's the single best change to the series in the last decade.

It gives you so much more flexibility in making teams, and eliminates the impulse to hoard TMs and never end up using them. The game is simply much more fun because of one small change.

Literally the best thing genV did

>>33357204
Platinum or Crystal with infinite TMs would be the greatest pokemon game ever.

>>33357247
>Crystal with infinite TMs would be the greatest pokemon game ever.
>what is the cloning glitch?

>>33357176
yeah it ruined the games for me, i really loved having to restart a game just to get another earthquake tm

>>33357247
I can barely play pre-Gen V games anymore because single-use TMs are so irritating.

>>33357176
it's great, because without unlimited tms pokemon wouldnt be able to learn many moves, and its a shame because gen 4 and below you could only teach it to such a certain amount. and you werent even able to get the tm's back for the most part.

>>33357285
Quick question. Are you insane?

>>33357176
Your friend is a idiot.
It's very helpful.

>>33357285
shit, my bad. I meant >>33357262

>>33357299
no, not really, why do you ask?
>wanting to teach earthquake to a mon
>wanting to teach earthquake to another mon
>both mons could really use it
>can only use ONE tm.
yeah, this was a good move.

>>33357176
The only thing I miss is TM moves passing with breeding. Not that it particularity matters now.

>>33357299
>>33357314
Do you know what sarcasm means?

>>33357299
>>33357314

That was some incredibly obvious sarcasm.

>>33357338
>sarcasm through plain text

Oh, geeze. I'm sorry. I couldn't tell.

>>33357351
Are you an idiot? That sarcasm was clear as day. Even a 10 years old could have picked it up.

>>33357399
Are you an idiot? That sarcasm was clear as day. Even a 10 years old could have picked it up.

wtf is going on in here?

also >>33357176 why did you say infinite tms? they are "re-usable" tms, i can't even be bothered to explain how retarded you are

>>33357524
Not OP, but I think it's a perfectly fine colloquialism. You find it once, you can use it infinite times. Personally I say "reusable TMs" also, but I'm certainly not bothered by someone else using a different but perfectly understandable term.

>>33357524
'Infinite' has always been a gaming term for 'never running out of'.

>>33357524
>use return on every pokemon
>can no longer teach them return as they already have it
>no longer infinite
checkmate atheists

It's for the better, stops me from having to mass replay for TM farming/lets me actually use them in game.

So your friend is one of those retards who sees "streamlining" and "convenience" as "casualization?"

Bet the retard misses HMs too. And having a prompt that lets you automatically apply another repel? Fucking casuals

>>33357176
Yeah, your friend is right. Infinite TMs made the game super easy because you can just distribute all your high BP moves to all your pokemon without consequence. They need o go back to the old games where the TMs were both shitty and one time use to bring the difficulty back to how it used to be

>>33357689
If you hate TMs don't fucking use them.

>>33357689

They make most of the best TM's post game only for that reason.

>>33357176
If you hate how "easy" it makes the games, just only use it once (but honestly why would you have Ice Beam on more than one Pokemon anyway). It's extremely to make things harder for yourself in Pokemon.

>>33357693
But then I would be creating self imposing rules onto myself to artificially make the game harder than what it's supposed to be

>>33357729
So? If it's more fun for you to create self-imposing rules, why would you refuse?

>>33357733
That's a no go

>>33357729

There's nothing fucking wrong with that. Technically it's within your means to buy a second console and transferring in a bunch of level 100 pokemon/items/etc to beat the game with. That's been a thing since the first game. If you can make a game by imposing something on yourself, you're stupid not to do it because of some moral obligation.

I play every game monotype, exp share off, battle style set, and no items during battle and it's been perfect for me the last few games

>>33357204
This, I have money up the ass but it helps to not go looking for them

>>33357776
>gets a TM
>OH FUCK I'M LITERALLY FORCED BY THE GAME TO USE THIS ON MY POKEMON
>catch another pokemon that can use said TM
>OH FUCK I'M LITERALLY REQUIRED BY LAW TO USE THIS ON MY SECOND POKEMON
>>33357777
quads of truth

>>33357176
>My friend says it ruined the newer pokemon games
Your friend is a fucking faggot and probably a genwunner

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>>33357247
>Emerald with the physical/special split AND infinite TMs
I came

>>33357777
of course I could but that would still be going out of my way to alter the difficulty of the game

>>33357689
>>33357729
Pokémon was always easy as fuck, convenience just makes them more fun

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>>33357204
>>33357224
>BW had no Battle Points faggot shit
>meaning no moves locked behind postgame
>my fucking face finding moves like flamethrower and being able to teach as many mons as I wanted
I want to go back

>>33357845

Transferring a pokemon in from pokebank is going out of your way more than grinding?

>>33357866
obviously

>>33357922

Oh, well I can lend you a Perfect IV/EV trained arceus with choice band. Surely that quick trade will be easier than catching and training a team of 6?

>>33357863
>BW had no Battle Points faggot shit
It did, though.

>>33357834
Theta Emerald

>>33357937
>needing to grind
Besides, an Arceus wouldn't even obey

The only three reasons I could see not liking it are

>being an obtuse form of casual who misses being able to use TMs as fill ups for PP in dungeons
>being a fucking idiot who actually wants to replay the game every time he needs a new copy of a TM and thinks it makes the game harder
>being a faggot who wants to propogate some form of online in-game economy with shit like TMs, Master Balls, Shinies

>>33357942
Where? I can't remember

>>33358107
Battle Subway and in BW2 the PWT as well.

infinite TM usage is like the lack of HMs

it's amazing, but dumb people say it sucks cause it "makes the game too easy" when really there was no real reason for the previous negative mechanics to exist at all

seriously who the fuck defends NON-reusable TMs and the INCLUSION of irreplaceable HMs?

>>33358123
HMs are solely an aspect of main game and add another layer to the gameplay, note I am not saying it makes it harder

TMs are part of multiplayer as well where the unreusable nature gets really retarded

>>33358138
yeah I understand HMs; Pokemon is an RPG, and thus, item-based progression is a no-brainer. The REAL kicker is the fact that you can't get rid of HMs once you have a Pokemon learn them, causing you to either have a shit move on a Pokemon until you find the Move Deleter, or just devote all your HMs into a single "HM slave", which is just not cool

the infinite TMs thing is just way better in every way imo

>>33357176
You need new friends.

>>33357274
Same.
I wish there was an AR/flashcart code for Platinum for infinite TMs. You can give yourself 99 of every TM, but that just breaks the game.
I wanted a code that makes it so that the stock of TMs you already have can never fall below 1.

>>33357176
>replay an entire game for one more psychic TM

Nah, fuck that shit, i'm glad they're infinite use. Shame they still stuck around in the form of Move Tutors. Every one of those moves should just be a TM already, would be more fitting than fucking Confide.

>>33357176
Ruins the RPG aspect of Pokemon.

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>>33357274
This was especially painful in my Pokemon Red playtrough earlier this year. I had forgotten how horseshit the movepools were in those games. Jesus christ. Also Charizard can't learn fly because REASONS.

>>33358843
They still were in gen III. I replayed GoD recently and had Eevee evolve into Vaporeon. Only Water moves it learned were Water Gun and Hydro Miss.

>>33358861
While true, you obviously have not played Gen 1 in a while right? Gen 1 movepools are laughable.

>>33357176
I remember getting thunderbolt TM when playing Pokemon X for the first time and teaching it to like half my party. It always feels so great when you get those cool TMs, and not have to grind for them in casinos/get just one the whole game for just one Pokemon.

>>33358870
No, it has been years since I last played a gen I game, I admit.

>>33358392
They really should just throw Confide on pokemon you'll find in the beginning of the game instead of having it as a TM because I honestly believe it's just there for people to have a special alternative for Growl early in the game.

>>33358123
HMs are a good concept marred by the fact that
1-there were too many of them (like, 8 in gen4, what the fuck)
2-most of them were worthless in battle so that you had to cripple your movesets to make room for exploration moves.
I wouldn't have anything against HMs if there weren't more than 5 per game and each one had some kind of battle viability.

>>33357176
Reusable TMs were one of the most positive and welcome changes to the series. You can tell how much it changed the games for the better when you go back to an older game and have to deal with the old TM system again.

As far as difficulty is concerned, I don't really think the old limitations were so much difficult as they were frustrating, and that's just fake difficulty at best. If the game punishes you for using a feature, it just makes you not want to use it at all. After all, how many TMs were left sitting in the bag because players wanted to save them? How is a feature like that even functional at that point?

Reusable TMs give you more freedom in planning your movesets, and not only does that contribute to greater variety, it actually tests your battling skills because you're tested on applicability. You have access to all these moves, now let's see how well you use them in practice.

>>33357845
Whether it's going out of your way or not, isn't it better for the game to offer you different difficulty options that you're in no way bound to but not punished for, either, than to back you into a corner so you have to make a choice? If there's a conceivable way to control the difficulty and tailor it to your needs, that can only be a good thing because it means there's no "intended" way to play it in the first place.

>>33358931
I actually agree with this. It was always a bit annoying having to sacrifice a move slot in order to advance through an area, but gen 4 really was the tipping point. Until then, HMs were a decent concept, at least on paper, but they took it too far in Sinnoh.

At least Surf and Fly were useful in battle, plus they were the ones you'd use the most out in the field. But when a lot of them were only used in maybe one or two locations, it was more frustrating than anything.

At the end of the day, I think Poké Ride was the best and most logical solution for this problem, and I hope it sticks around.

>>33357176
Reuseable TMs should be post-game only.

>>33358931

I agree. You could use an HM slave, but then that takes up a pokemon slot. Even then, there were 8HMs so you'd need either 2 HM slaves which is retarded, or 1 HM slave and a bunch of HMs on other mons

>>33358931
HGSS, Hoenn, and Sinnoh were the only games where they were 8 HMs. Starting with Unova the numbers were reduced to 5 (6 if we count Dive, but there was only one single place were Dive could be used).

I constantly swap swords dance and false swipe on my scizor, I'm glad i dont have to buy a ton to do so

>>33359028
>Whether it's going out of your way or not, isn't it better for the game to offer you different difficulty options that you're in no way bound to but not punished for, either, than to back you into a corner so you have to make a choice? If there's a conceivable way to control the difficulty and tailor it to your needs, that can only be a good thing because it means there's no "intended" way to play it in the first place.

Oh, of course. I'm just shitposting; using the same arguments faggots use when they whine about when discussing the exp share

>>33357942
And while they were at it they standarized the worst version of battle tower.

>>33358916
The most famous example is probably charizard being stuck with ember until level 46.

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>>33359028
>At the end of the day, I think Poké Ride was the best and most logical solution for this problem, and I hope it sticks around.
I hope they tweak it a bit though, I want my bike back.
I'd also rather not have charizard as the flying aid. Maybe if we could page our own pokémon.

>>33359642
Yeah that's so dumb. Especially as a kid, where Ash' Charizard flamethrowered everything and you're stuck with the lighting the stove flame. Alsi, can't learn fly in R/B. Only on yellow. Because a big fuckoff lizard shouldn't be able to carry me, but pidgey can.

>>33359155
In Hoenn's defense they did a good job with managing the HMs, because most of the region is water they could just use it to block most of the areas until the second half of the game instead of awkwardly placed rocks, trees or NPCs blocking your path, you could beat the entire game without cut or flash (though the later would be missed during the Victory Road)

the only time when it really becomes a pain is during the second half when you need surf, dive, rock smash and strength to finish seafloor cave, the victory road was also annoying but so was any other victory road from that point forward

>>33359688
I spent two generations with the same strategy: having a water pokémon with surf and then switching between the other two water HMs back and forth.
It got annoying but it wasn't as bad as Shinno where it was impossible to guess what you'd need between rock smash, strength, rock climber, surf and waterfall.

On that note, why did they never make HMs easy to erase? I understand for RBY with the limited bag space, but from GSC onward you always had all HMs on you. If you erase a HM and then you need it again, you could just open your bag and relearn it.

>>33357176
It also made the (Randomized) Nuzlockes easier to do

>>33359673
Now that you mention it, I wouldn't mind getting the bike back, either. The bike themes alone were worth it.

And they could include the option to page your own Pokémon. Maybe have default options like in SM, but also make it so that each ride is compatible with certain other Pokémon that you can page instead if you happen to own them. In any case, if Poké Ride is in fact here to stay, I'd like to see them switch it up and feature different Pokémon, preferably from that region.

>>33359673
That's nice. HM Pagers, huh?

Your friend is retarded, if he wants the same level of challenge pre gen v he can just use TMs once in his playthroughs. Making them infinite use was an awesome design decision because making them songle use didn't really contribute anything to the challenge of the game.

>>33359815
I'd turn mine into the Bibarel Pager.

>>33359673
I'd rather be able to page my own pokemon, instead of call PokeUber because there's a rock in my way

>>33359752
>On that note, why did they never make HMs easy to erase?
Some shit about not wanting you to get stuck, even though they prevent releasing pokemon if they have your only hm move in gen 6, maybe earlier

>>33357863
Everyone forgets about the battle subway...

>>33359792
I think just having a variety of ride Pokemon to choose for each role could be a way to fix. Like for example if you didn't like Charizard you can page flygon instead.

It might be an unpopular opinion but I think TM's should be single use, until you beat the E4. The games are already easy as fuck, now compound that with having unlimited earthquake, stone edge, flamerthrower, ice beam, thunderbolt, etc throughout your team.

Heck, can't you even cheese pp with tms, by replacing a move and then teaching the original tm move to the mon?

>>33360695
I think he was just saying that Battle Points weren't used to get moves, not that they didn't exist at all. (Either way, he was incorrect. There were TMs for sale for BP in BW.)

>>33360762
>I think TM's should be single use, until you beat the E4. The games are already easy as fuck

No offense, but I think this is absolutely insane. Unlimited TMs do make the game slightly easier, and also far, far more fun. I've enjoyed the games much more since they've given you the versatility to be creative and experiment with your in-game team far more than was possible with single-use TMs. The slight difficulty tradeoff is without a doubt worth it for the huge gain in gameplay quality.

>>33360762
>Heck, can't you even cheese pp with tms, by replacing a move and then teaching the original tm move to the mon?

No. When you teach a move by TM, if it's replacing a move with fewer PP remaining than the new move has, the new move inherits the remaining PP of the old move.

Only thing that made gen 5 worthwhile if I didnt forget anything important...

>>33360623
Since gen 3. Also the reason you cna't transfer any pokémon that knows an HM move.
HMs have been assholish annoyance for a long time, not just because they take up a move slot.

Anyway, you literally cannot get stuck just because you delete an HM move since you're always carrying all HMs at all moments.

>>33360882
That was only true in Gen 5.

>>33360930
Really? Weird. I didn't know they changed that. Seemed like a perfectly sensible restriction to me. Oh well, thanks.

>>33360962
I didn't know either. Goes to show how often we've ran out of PP.

It made TMs more convenient, and it also made finding them feel more like permanent character progression, adding a new move to your arsenal forever, rather than just a single one-shot bonus for just one pokemon.

>>33359688
The problem is that you never know when you need a HM move, so you end up having them all available anyway.
Fuck HMs.

>>33358138
HMs could have easily been a non battle move like an equippable iten or something. Gen IV making you have 2 full HM slaves was beyond stupid.

>>33361209
>so you end up having them all available anyway
Not really? You should be used to some HMs being single use (cut, flash, defog) so you should abandon them before the next batch rolls in. While the others (surf, strength, rock smash, waterfall) are easy to guess.

Still a pain in the ass but I never felt like I had to carry all HMs at all times, specially since Gen II.

Worst part about HM roadblocks is that they never went away forever, except for the ONE time in Rusturf Tunnel. It's such a pain in the ass to have to dig out Cut to get through Ilex, or dig out Rock Smash to go north from Mauville

>>33361267

There are sever routes in gen 4 that need defog, as soon as I got rid of the defoger, uh oh, there's fog inside this mountain cave for some reason.

Cut was also one of the most common used HMs in earlier games, what are you talking about "single use" if anything waterfall is single use as there would be one required waterfall and a few other waterfalls thoughout the game which are postgame/optional

>>33361217
>teach my Bibarel Cut, Surf, Strenght and Rock Smash
>teach my Crobat Fly and Defog (fuck Defog though, I made it forget that fucking useless move)
>Still need to teach Rock Climb and Waterfall when I get them
What the hell were they thinking? That's 8 HMs. That you have to divide between 6 pokemons with 4 moves each, which is 24 moves total. 8/24 is 1/3, which is insane and considerably reduces the player's choice in gameplay.
I still like Platinum, but HMs were cancer in that game.

>>33361360

Aerodactyl was the perfect hm slave partner with bibarel, the two of them learned all 8 HMs.

Not excusing it though, defog was the breaking point for me and probably a lot of other people

>>33361351
>There are sever routes in gen 4 that need defog, as soon as I got rid of the defoger, uh oh, there's fog inside this mountain cave for some reason
Could you remind me? Because I can only remember the cave room with a lake leading to the snowy route and the route after the gangster psyducks. To be honest, I used that HM exactly once. After seeing how little necessary it was and how useless it was in combat, I deleted it and never used it again. I'd rather deal with the lowered hit rate.
>Cut was also one of the most common used HMs in earlier games
Mostly in Kanto though. In Johto, I can only remember it being mandatory for the forest (since that's when you get it) and a group of three apricorns. That's when I decided to give up on permanently having all HMs. Flash was similar in like it saw three instances of actual use, all pretty far apart.

And honestly, for most of those I'd rather be blocked and need to come back later than go through the whole game with those wasted slots (or just learn them exactly when needed).
Again, an annoying hassle but far away from needing to carry all HMs at all times.

>>33357204
This op your friend (no offense) is a dunce for thinking such an improvement was bad not having to buy the same TM's over again to teach certain pokemon moves is a money saver.

Better solution would have been to make all TMs rebuyable in the postgame. Right now there is no choice involved, just give everything the best moves. Buyable TMs still makes you more careful with team building but also not so afraid of using TMs that you hoard them forever and it still rewards mons that have good level up movepool.

>>33362029
Usually I'd agree but realistically they'd abuse BP BS so no thanks.

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>>33362029
>want a sludge bomb tm
>48BP

Are Battle Points the worst mistake in the history of Pokémon?

>>33362779
Mails are

>>33363070
I didn't even remember those existed so they can't be the worst.

>>33362779

They're fine. I just wish they didn't make breeding items behind the paywall, because it's hard to buy those without bred pokemon of your own.

However if you have pokebank, it's not too bad getting your own points, and pokebank alone gets you points

>>33363187
It gets you points if you wait a lot of time. Grinding hundreds of points two by two again and again generation after generation is getting really old and annoying and I can't say it was ever an enjoyable experience. I want to gear my team so I can do the very thing I'm required to do to gear them. It's stupid.

Although I guess it beats needing to wait for serial codes to be released. Serial codes in general and kidnapped equippable items can go die in a fire too.

Thank god cheating has been relatively easy so far, I hope we get some way to manipulate data on Switch soon enough.

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I use finite TMs as a difficulty trophy. Having 50 TMs at the end of the game is an achievement to me. Using TMs makes the game way too easy and you can just one-shot everything. Infinite TMs are just downright comical in single player and I can no longer keep track of the ones I didn't use. I understand they are mandatory for multiplayer but for singleplayer it's absolutely unnecessary.

I got great satisfaction out of making extremely long breeding chains to pass down TM moves and save my sweet delicious TMs.

>>33361209
This is what pissed me off about rock climb, at least with dive you can assume its going to be in the water but rock climb can show up pretty much anywhere and you need to keep carrying it just in case

>>33362779
>lets lock this useful move behind postgame when you are already done with everything
Yes

>>33363392
>let's lock this evolution item behind postgame
>let's also put it in the most expensive tier
Makes me want to murder a kitten.

>>33363446
>need this item in particular
>its a game corner prize and expensive as shit
FUCK

>>33363446
>>33363532
>it's a fucking evolution stone
What the fuck? Celadon City in Gen 1 sold stones. Was that too game breaking? Will me having a Vileplume midway through the game be too easy?

>>33363620
>GS gave you literally one stone of each type
>and you had to wait until postgame to get them
That was bullshit as hell.

>>33362779
Yes. The items are FAR too overpriced. Who in the fuck is going to pay FORTY-EIGHT BP for a single Rare Candy, or however much it is now? Even if they were halved it'd be too much. You don't even get BP for battling online. Add to the fact that Move Tutors are literally 1-use TM's under a new name

>>33363969

The rare candies are previously a hold over from when you needed a whole bunch to check for I.Vs. You'd have to buy like 10 but you'd never save after using em. Now they serve as just a bonus option once you've bought everything else you need.

>>33364076
It'd be faster to just Pickup the candies.

>>33363758
Thankfully crystal almost fixed that. I think the big idea was to trade with RBY to evolve but fuck that shit.

>>33364076
Well, they've become relevant again after hyper training almost forces you to. Because of course they'd force you to grind to 100 in the hardest game to grind in generations

>>33364196

Watch USM make leveling about BW2 level but the switch games to go right back to SM level.

>>33364196
>I think the big idea was to trade with RBY to evolve but fuck that shit.
That's what I did. Never bought Crystal, I had better things to spend money on than "Gold with an extra sidequest thrown in and not much else".

>>33364228
Or maybe they'll go back to XY level. I wish.
Although I would love in USUM had a BW2-tier Festival Plaza.

>>33364262
Join Avenue should have been in every game since BW2. That was impressive and it's a shame it'll never come back/the join ave no longer works.

>>33360623

>trade something with Surf to your game before you get the HM
>travel over water to some island with grass
>level up and forget Surf
>stuck

i mean that's definitely in the "you have to actively be trying" camp, but it's still technically possible

>>33361217

god i had like eight bibarel with very slightly different combinations of moves for different uses. cut/rock smash/strength/rock climb for wandering around hilly areas, cut/rs/strength/surf for general exploration, surf/waterfall/rs/strength for caves...what an unholy pain in the ass it was

Infinite TMs are the second best decision Gamefreak has ever made. The only people who bitched about Infinite TMs are the ones who got salty they couldn't get early Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Flamethrower from spamming the Game Corner anymore. I hated trying to track down who I'd teach TMs to, and make sure they were male so that I'd could sucessfully breed down the moves, or having to go through tedious bullshit just to get multiple Earthquakes.

>>33364687
>unable to use Surf without a specific badge

>>33364687
Several of those games had other ways to get yourself stuck by actively trying, too.

>>33357689
Most of the high BP TMs are late game or even postgame only so your complaint is a literal non issue.

>>33363070
mail redesign in gen iv was the worst, gen iii mail ruled

>>33363312
ya that rock tomb tm really carried me thru the second half of emerald, no way i woulda beat it without that incredibly useful tm, thank god i didnt have infinite copies or the game'd be totally broken

>>33364794
Aren't both the same awkward word selection shit? Gen II had the only mail worth using.

>>33357176
Tell your friend that he's a retard.

>>33364816
They were all awkward attempts at reducing the potential to write unseemly stuff.

>>33364708

you'd also have to make getting the hm mandatory. surf usually is but e.g. old-style strength in gen iv and rock smash are usually sidelined and missable

>>33364712

sure, but throwing away all your stuff in sootopolis and trading away your only surf mon to the meister without any Rods are a lot more complicated than overwriting a move.

like i can definitely see a kid trading something with HMs from a friend to try to get ahead.

i mean not like i'm saying i have any particular love for hm moves being unwieldy pieces of shit, just that the way they're currently implemented it's understandable why they have those restrictions. the poké ride is a pretty decent compromise.

>>33364816
if you can't get nasty with the word selection in gen iii, you have no creativity man. that was the whole fun of it. anyone can write "fuck", but LICK YOUR SLIMY GRANDFATHER is the sort of poetry that comes from mildly restricted word choice

The only downside to reusable TMs is that it means a lot of good moves like Psychic, Flamethrower, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are now either post-game only or not obtained until right before the E4.

I think the only exception to this since BW (not counting HGSS because it was a remake) was Clemont giving Thunderbolt after beating him.

>>33357176
its something you should unlock endgame
its absolutely necessary but it does significantly undercut difficulty by allowing you to just teach everything earthquake before the electric gym or whatever, basically forcing all of the good tms to be blocked off behind the e4 or game corner grindwalls

>>33357256
You can't keep one of every TM because of the item limit in the bag/pc.

>>33365000
your example is stupid because you have never ever gotten earthquake before an electric gym, try again

>>33365030
Yes you can. There is no limit to TM space in Gold/Silver/Crystal.

>>33365000
>its absolutely necessary but it does significantly undercut difficulty by allowing you to just teach everything earthquake before the electric gym or whatever, basically forcing all of the good tms to be blocked off behind the e4 or game corner grindwalls

I care about fun much more than difficulty. And getting to mess around with unique and creative movesets during the main story is fun. I honestly think I'd drop the series if they stopped with reusable TMs, even if if was only prior to postgame.

>>33365037
The bag has a maximum number of items you can hold, and so does the PC.

>>33365111
Have you ever tried to get 1 of every TM? Or are you just assuming?

>>33365000
>muh endgame
fuck this gay ass shit, I want to enjoy single player and features like this are good

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>>33365111
https://www.mediafire.com/file/3dbbknras8tnf3y/Crystal.rar
Here's a rom and savefile from a recent playthrough of mine with all 7 HMs and 98-99 copies of every TM except TM21 (Frustration) and TM40 (Defense Curl). So while I can't prove you 100% wrong, I can prove you 98% wrong.

>>33365116
>>33365187

rby pc has 50 spaces, bag has 20, 58 tms/hms + key items = not enough space. idt people realized you were talking about gsc and not rby but thats not my problem lol

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>>33365305
Even that's not a problemo, friendo. There are 3-7 REQUIRED key items that you cannot get rid of in RBY, depending on whether you count HM1-4, since you can technically trade for the moves. The PokeFlute (Snorlax), Card Key (for Silph Co.) and the Secret Key (for Blaine's Gym). The Bicycle isn't required because you don't actually need it to get on Cycling Road, and the Lift key and Silph Scope aren't needed because you can get past Marowak with a Poke Doll. So that leaves 63-67 slots open for TMs and any other game items, which is more than enough.

Trust me on this, nigga. I have done this shit too.

>>33360734
But flygon is a stinko sanddrago and hates unovans

I think infinite is too much freedom. There should be a compromist
>you have to find the TM the first time in the overworld
>but you have to go to the Pokemon Center/Mart to pay a fee to use it
>pokemon get TM cooldowns requiring them to battle a certain number of times before trying another TM

>>33365851
>>pokemon get TM cooldowns requiring them to battle a certain number of times before trying another TM
Holy cancerous game mechanics, Batman. So just because I want to teach a mon two TMs at once after catching it, I have to grind AFTER teaching it the first one? No. Fuck you. That's stupid.

>>33357863
>BW had no Battle Points faggot shit
>meaning no moves locked behind postgame
What game did you play?
Also, in SM there's no Moves behind Battle Facility. So, what's the problem now?

>>33357176
>ruined
Your friend is a massive fucking retard. It is one of the best things from Unova and should have been done much sooner honestly.

>>33365904
Less of a problem than in previous games since you can freely transfer Gen VI mons between Gen VI and VII, so only mons originating in Gen VII can't utilize the tutors.

>>33362779
No, they are really easy to get.

>>33364943
>Not I LIKE ADULT TOYS
What the hell, Anonymous.

>>33364708
Since BW you don't need badges to use HM outside the battle.

>>33365927
Not actually true. Trade over a mon with Surf or edit one in and try to surf on Route 1. You just always get the badge required for the move before the HM in regular gameplay, so it seems like you don't actually need the badges.

Honestly its one use tms that makes older gens unplayable in my opinion.

Nothing is worse than getting half way through red ansnblue and finding out two pokemon you've been raising need the same TM you only have one of so you have to either get a new build or a new pokemon which means taking time to replan instead of just fucking play

Its stopped many of my runs.

>>33365032
>your example is stupid because you have never ever gotten earthquake before an electric gym, try again
Not that anon, and not in the reusable TM era, but Platinum gives you access to good old TM26 and also Gible right after gym 2, while the Electric gym is the final gym in the region. And I'm pretty sure you can still get Earthquake before Volkner in Diamond and Pearl, too.
If/when we get D/P remakes, I want them to keep the Platinum version of Wayward Cave,
early pseudo and EQ and all.

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>>33365943

>>33365943
>Red and Blue
That one's pretty easy, just hold onto the TM until you get to Cinnabar and then abuse the fuck out of the Old Man glitch. Just lean on the rest of your party until then.
Though the fact that every other thing in Gen I has like 5 level-up moves (4 of which are Normal-type) makes that situation crop up all the fucking time. Oh, and you're fucked if your trainer's name doesn't give Missingno. or __ 'M__

>>33365998
Missingno is always possible to encounter, no matter what the name is.

>>33366007
Not necessarily, no. You still have to have the right characters in the third, fifth, or seventh slot in your name for a Missingno. form to appear. I did fuck up a little though, since __ 'M __ shows up no matter what if you aren't using a default name.

>>33365998
>just abuse glitches
Somehow that doesn't seem like much of a solution.

>>33359874
>Bibarel with a torchlight

>>33365951
You definitely can if you choose Turtwig.

its good

>>33366433
Gen 1's glitches are part of the fun, otherwise you just have obsolete games

>>33357176
Infinite usage TMs made me use TMs to begin with. I always get too stressed over what to use a TM on in an older game. Being able to use the TM over and over again made it so even through the course of an adventure, I felt way more encouraged to try out TMs on more Pokemon.

>>33365851
>pokemon get TM cooldowns requiring them to battle a certain number of times before trying another TM
Fuck that noise, I'm too tired of grinding. Don't make me cheat TM moves too.

>>33366746
yeah that's how i feel
in the old games i'd be so afraid to waste one that i'd wind up at the end of the game with a bunch of decent tms i never used

>>33365943
>Using "builds" in old gen story mode playthroughs

In Pearl version I trained Trapinch to level 60 or 70+ just so it could learn Earthquake on its own (Vibrava and Flygon didn't get it until later gens) instead of using the TM.

>>33357419

Except in the latter's case the post being sarcastic would contradict what was stated before.

Props for trying to be clever though.

>>33357247
>>33357834

polished crystal and sigma or theta emerald

>>33365943
obviously you didn't plan very much if you didn't notice that issue

>>33370011
Faggot.

>>33357176

>My friend says it ruined the newer pokemon games

oh no, now we can actually give pokemon movesets. however will we recover?

>>33370858
We can't, recover isn't a TM.

>>33370863
That and slack off and maybe shore up (remove it's signature status and make it usable for mineral mons) should be post game tms or move tutor moves. I understand recovery makes the main game easier but I want my bulkmons to have recovery for competitive dammit