Gauging interest on an idea I had

I like this idea. I don't like Digimon, but I like this idea.

>>33341845
gosh that pic is so inaccurate.

>>33341873
It was the best thing I could find without posting some dumb digimon bait pic.

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>>33341889
Is it saying Red evolves from Hitmonchan?

>>33341845
I really like this idea. There would be a (relative) handful of Basic Pokemon (probably around 50-100?) and through stat growth, items, time, location, affection, learned moves, etc, you would evolve them. Break them into tiers (Basic, 2nd Stage, 3rd Stage) and each Pokemon evolves twice (if you want it to). Each tier had a small range of BST.

I think this really stresses the raising of Pokemon. It could be a lot of fun.

>>33341905
Actually my though was to gate it off every 100 bst, with the exception of natural evolutions. As you go up the ladder of evolving the requirements get more difficult.

Another thought I had was making the everstone a use item that evolves the pokemon down to a previous natural form leading to decisions you would have to make to get to certain pokemon

>>33341915
I was just throwing out ideas. I like your BST gateway idea. And I think keeping the Everstone as-is might be better. Keeps people from acidentially evolving a Pokemon they don't want to yet. You can create a new item, like a reverse evolution stone, that devolves a Pokemon.

>>33341943
True. I'll look into adding an item, for now I'll probably change one of the sell for money items into the "reverse stone"

Another thing I was thinking of was changing mega stones to behave like evolution stones. Just spit balling ideas at this point

>>33341955
Mega Evolutions add 100 BST to a pokemon and change their abilities(Usually) to make him/her better. I think Mega Garchomp and his 700 BST is literally higher than some legendaries. Making Megas function like evolution stones will let people put multiple Megas in their team. It's a bad idea. It could work if you spent a while balancing each one to be a TF2-style sidegrade rather than a direct upgrade, though.

>>33341975
Well, my thought was mega stones are hard to get, so its reward for obtaining it.

Buuuuut, the evolution editor doesn't have forms listed for Pokemon to evolve into, so that's something I will need to figure out before I think about implementing it.

>>33341990
Nevermind, I found how to edit which form it evolves into

So would each Pokemon still only evolve 3 times, or would you just split it by BST 100 and have each line go from the lowest tier to the highest? If you started with something that had 100-200 BST and went up to 700-800, it would evolve six times.

>>33341903
It's saying humans evolved from a humanlike ancestor that had hitmonchan related to it.

Neat idea, I wonder what crazy movesets you could get.

>>33342009
So we all start with low-BST shitmons and evolve them into higher-tier mons, which evolve into higher-tier mons, which evolve into higher-tier mons, which need something special/specific to evolve into highest-tier mons?

I like it, but don't divide them up by types or egg groups. Getting to make a BST 600 monster use a crappy shitmon attack will be part of the fun AND part of the individuality/customization/learning data aspect.

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>>33342013
They'd evolve up the chain, yeah. It wouldn't be limited to three.

>>33342046
The way I was going to do it was the evolutions have to share ONE of the egg groups, not both. So for Abomasnow for instance, you would have pic related.

>>33342110
>Share at least one type as evolution
How does that work, would Aggron lose one typing?

>>33342110
Will Ekans have a way to become Serperior, also are the items working like Armor Digivolutions.

>>33342128
Ignore that. That's a feature of pk3ds, it's so you can randomize evolutions.

In fact, PK3ds has randomizer buttons on every screen, even the text editors. It's actually a very nice program, props to everyone who worked on it.

>>33342140
Not sure at this point. Honestly I'm probably just going to go in and make evolutions on an individual basis with no "end goal" for any one pokemon. Makes it more chaotic and fun that way.

For the items specific to one Pokemon, I'll only have that Pokemon evolve from it. So if you pick up a protector like in the example, you know you have a Rhyperior, but have to make a decision on which Pokemon is going to evolve into it.

>>33342160
I think it makes more sense to lay out what Pokemon exist in what BST tier and then make the most logical connections from there.

>>33342188
I should lay out every Pokemon in terms of their BST anyways to see how many "base form" Pokemon there are versus how many "final form" Pokemon I have to work with.

Another fun idea, give some shit mon a legendary evolution that has ridiculous requirements to obtain. Like Farfetch'd evolving into Lugia at level 80 or something insane like that.

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Here's my idea for Abra.

Another thing I've discovered is "Level up with Party" which is Mantyke's evolution method. So I can set any Pokemon to evolve with a different Pokemon in the party. Should be interesting.

>>33341845
Its a good idea for a romhack, but not something I-d like for the main games. Speciall if it shoots itself in the foot like digimon did.

>>33342298
I generally like this. With one exception: does Machoke really make sense for Abra? Can you explain your logic or reasoning ?

Also, what happens when you fulfill multiple evolution methods at the same time? Say, Abra with Hypnosis and a dark type in your party?

>>33342328
Oh for sure. I wouldn't wish this upon the franchise. This is just something I kinda wanted to do for fun and wanted to see if anyone else would play it if I actually took the time to do it

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Here's the count of Pokemon in each "tier" if you sort them by BST sections of 100 each. It might be better if you had fewer tiers with more similar numbers of Pokemon in each.

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>>33342350
I always had the thought that the abra line and machop line were opposites, so I just made that connection.

As for the multiple evolution methods, it goes in order. Method 1 has priority over method 2, with method 8 being the lowest. Eevee has this in the actual games

>>33342382
Thank you, that'll give me a rough idea of what I'm working with

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>>33342391
Here's a distribution that keeps things balanced. (The graph makes it look less balanced than it really is btw)

This assumes though that you'd want your Pokemon lines to overlap. If you want them to split away from each other you'd need to set them up so that each tier is x times larger than the previous, where x is the average number of possible evolutions for each Pokemon in the previous tier.

ie if you start with 3 Pokemon, and each can evolve 3 different ways, you have 9 pokemon the next generation. Then, 27 the next, then 81, then 243, and lastly the remainder (903 - the sum of all previous tiers).

You can also fuck around with a different number of average evolutions per tier, a different number of "basic" pokemon, or a different amounts of overlap.

TL;DR: Math. You're dealing with a big equation that dictates what you can set up feasibly.

>>33342469
I do like the way this pans out. I may adjust the numbers a bit, but this looks to be a good balance between early-mid-late game evolutions with these BSTs

I was just going to use all 8 evolution slots for every Pokemon. The higher evolution Pokemon having one less slot so they can "evolve down"

>>33342509
So your basics will have eight different options, and everything else will have 7? Neat. And so I assume that each Pokemon will have multiple other 'mons that evolve into it? For example, if Abra and Machop were in the same tier, both would be able to evolve into Machoke? (As opposed to branching out so each Pokemon has unique pre-evolutions)

>>33342553
Right. The main difference would be a Machop evolved into Machoke would have different moves than an abra evolved into machoke, which leads to further evolutions based on certain moves learned, etc

One other thing which could be stolen from Digimon could be "Slide (Digi/E)volution".
For some Digimon, under certain circumstances, they can Digivolve to something of the same level, this was mostly used for switching between Hybrid forms (those weird ones from the fourth season/generation/whatever of the show) and between good/evil versions (like Angemon to Devimon).
Obviously if it is used it should be used sparingly and probably not by doing something that would happen in normal play, like Level-Up Machoke holding TwistedSpoon to get a Kadabra, or Level-Up a Gastly who knows a Flying move to get a Drifloon.

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Devolution Spray might be a better item for your... well devolutory needs.
Alternatively, there is always breeding if you need a prevolution.

>>33342650
Ooh good idea I forgot about that. >>33342684
Another good idea, for now I'll stick with the expensive item idea

What would a Machop Machoke have different from an Abra Machok, if you think about it.

This is really cool, OP. Just wanted to drop in some support. I would play a rom hack of this 2bh. A very cool idea.

>>33342841
It wouldn't have Teleport.

Should someone make a big list of the Pokemon in each tier so people can start suggesting evolution relationships?

One consequence of this I can see is that the first tier is bloated with shitty bug types that are barely different from each other

>>33343400
Expanding on this, if we use this >>33342469 tiering system, it lands us with 24 bug types in the first tier, which is nearly a third of them. Not to mention, within that tier, there's a significant number of pokemon that normally evolve from each other. I think on principle a pokemon's natual evolution should always be an option. I would suggest adding a tier even lower, equivalent to baby/fresh in digimon for the absolute lowest BSTs that have evolutions with low BSTs themselves

>>33343400
>>33343555
I agree. I forgot how many trash bugs abd birds there are

I plan on leaving every canon evolution alone outside of changing trade evolutions to stuff that can be obtained in a single cart

>>33344005
Sorting by BST might not be enough then. Or you might want to move all of the VERY basic Pokemon (bug types that can't learn TMs like Caterpie/Weedle, other baby Pokemon that evolve into Pokemon in the same tier) into a Below-Basic tier that basically just includes exceptions.

By the way, what generations will this cover? Does it include support all the way up to gen 7?

>>33344005
The pokemon in question would include Azurill, Caterpie, Weedle, Scatterbug, Ralts, Bounsweet, Igglybuff, and Wurmple

Shedinja is also in a strange spot, so it shouldn't be arranged based on its BST

>>33343315
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_base_stats_(Generation_VII-present)

Just arrange by total with the arrow

>>33344050
It supports XY, ORAS, and SM. I'm specifically working with files from Pokemon Sun, though the evolution files can be moved to moon and presumably USUM when they come out

>>33344076
There's an evolution thing for Ninjask and Shedinja that are separate from the normal evolution by level ups, I'll have to figure out how that's usable.

>>33344291
Also there are other evolutions later like Porygon2 -> PorygonZ that barely gain any BST and might sit them in the same tier, as well as the special case of Scyther -> Scizor, where they have the same BST

>>33344353
Oh yeah, totally forgot about those. Besides seeing if anyone is interested, I knew people would bring up issues like that.

>>33344416
Not to mention, if you're adamant on keeping natural evolutions always available, then it'll lead to a lot of tier skipping. For example, Magikarp would skip straight from the second lowest tier to the second highest. You could just keep stuff like that in, but it would kind of ruin balance in my opinion, why go up through like Goldeen an shit instead of going straight to Gyarados?

>>33344454
Maybe make the natural evolutions harder? Like instead of evolving at level 20, it evolves between 40-50?

>>33344593
You could make that work. The fact that this only applies to some pokemon with large BST gains and not others would make for a pretty weird evolution map, but with up to 8 evos, I guess it doesn't really matter that much

Another fun tidbit, I have no idea how different exp groups work. My running theory is the Pokemon's level will adjust based on its new EXP pool. I'll probably compile a rom tonight and try out some evolutions to see what happens.

>>33344454
I think it'd be acceptable if you could always get to a natural evolution from the previous, just perhaps not directly. Like, for example, if all of Magikarp's possible tier 5 evolutions had the option to evolve into tier 6 Gyarados.

>>33344251
I was talking about a chart that would draw connections between all the different Pokemon of each tier. Like, a row of all the tier 1s, with lines drawn to the tier 2s to show their evolution path. Then we can start looking for what doesn't add up or what might cause trouble.

I think having a pokemon evolve all the way through every single tier should be pretty rare. Like, if the highest tier is basically all legends and psuedo legends, you can't reasonably expect every mon to be able to get there, and certainly not every puny baby mon like Igglybuff. I do think the lower tier legends should be possible to evolve into, but only by a couple of mons. Like say, Avalugg and Cryagonal can evolve into Regice

It honestly sounds like it might be worth making several different evolution settings, for people who want branching vs recurring, for BST vs other methods of splitting up tiers, etc. Probably be pretty easy.

>>33345272
I have an option to dump the evolution tables. So when I finish going through the evolutions, I can dump it and post it up here for judgment

>>33346856
I have to manually edit all of the tables its not hard, just tedious because we're sitting at 800+ pokemon

>>33346900
Does it dump to a csv, tsv, or xml or something?

>>33341845
How is Gligar related to Crobat? The anatomical similarities are the cause of convergent development.

>>33346218
If we're copying digimon here, literally every digimon can go to mega. If you want you can make legendaries and megas be a "super mega" like burst mode.

>>33347499
That's basically the kind of thing I was referring to. Then again, in the games there are always some lines that cap out at Ultimate

>>33347281
No clue, we'll find out

>>33347450
Idk, ask google

>>33347499
That is basically my plan at this point

thread don't die while I'm gone.

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>>33342110
Not sure if this one is serious but it does exactly what I hate about Digimon, a convoluted mess of evolutions with no real rhyme or reason

>>33342298
This one is a lot better. I can connect the dots and see an actual thought process. If you actually go ahead with it, this is the kind of thing I'd like to see more of, rather than the first example.

>>33348867
Agreed. I'd rather see a Pokemon with fewer than eight evolutions than one that evolves into something that makes no sense

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>>33350151
As long as I can see that there's some kind of theme or connection I'm good.

Some digimon lines are actually pretty tame, but most of them are just off the wall transitions. Being able to devolve down to a baby form and then up another lines just makes it even more complicated because of the overlap.

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>>33350151
>>33350372
this just seems excessive to me

>>33348867
>>33350372
Damn these are really good.

This is going to have much more thought put into it than I originally intended.

But man those evolution trees look good

Considering making two files for this. One with the more chaotic everything must be full evolution charts, and one with the tame, "designed" lines.

>>33351439
If there's a way to import/export settings to an editable file format that would make things fairly simple.

>>33352086
I don't think there is. I'll have to check that later.

Luckily the evolution information is stored in one file in the nds file structure so I can move it between sun and moon, and hopefully usum

>>33352228
Does this work for emulation, or will this only work to hack existing cartridges?

>>33353253
I can make .3DS files, emulation will work fine

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>>33351439
That sounds like a pretty good idea, a lot of people do like the more chaotic evolutions

Personally this is about as chaotic as my self-diagnosed ocd will allow me to be

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Here's all the Pokemon grouped by BST, for convenience.

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>>33354225
And here they are tiered to match >>33342469

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>>33354316
And lastly, the same tiers but re-organized into just the basic groups. Now would be the time to start mapping out evolutions, moving Pokemon that don't belong in their tier to new tiers (Ones that have weird BSTs (Shedinja), or that share a tier with an evolution/prevolution (like Scyther/Scizor, or Caterpie/Metapod or Weedle/Kakuna)

>>33354462
>>33354316
>>33354225
Oooh very nice. Will save me some sanity trying to figure out which tier to place everything.

>>33353759
The mega evolution editor is different than the standard editor. From what I was able to fiddle around with it didn't let me change the pokemon's species for it

>>33354316
So an easy one that could span all the tiers I can see would be
Sandshrew (A)/Snorunt -> Bergmite/Vanillite -> Vanillish -> Sandslash (A) -> Glalie/Froslass -> Avalugg/Cryagonal/Vanilluxe -> Regice
None of those are too out there for each other, I think they all connect pretty easily

Who would be down for a discord channel to discuss this further?

Compiled a rom to do a couple of tests to see how the game behaves in regards to evolutions.

If you set an item like a potion as a "used item" evolution, it works. So a potion evolved my Pikipek into a Morelull

Sadly, used item evolutions don't care about level, I had the same Pikipek set to Fire Stone at level 15, but my level 2 Pikipek was still able to be evolved regardless. I guess the game just ignores the level modifier.

>>33355086
You'd probably have better luck just keeping a general thread up.

>>33357556
Seems like it. Kind of a pain in the neck to keep it off of page 10. Though I suppose vp's slow enough to not have to worry about it for hours at a time.

>>33354540
Yeah mine are just for fun, you can’t add alternate forms to a species through pk3ds and I’ve never seen anyone do t without swapping it with another Pokémon to make use of their alternate forms.

The most you can really change with the mega evolution editor is something like normal ninetales mega evolving into alolan ninetales, really anything that has another for me like shaymin/giratina, even the trial versions of Pokémon like lurantis

>>33355086
me

>>33358021
Yeah, its kinda weird. I wonder of that's an engine limitation or a limitation of the editor.

Testes some more evolution stuff. Assignong specific levels to the location based evolutions works fine. Same with the "have dark type pokemon on party"

I need to figure out how the "Level Up(Shedinja)" works

6 hours to page 10, huh

Got a few ideas for some evolutions. I need to test if the game will trigger an evolution even if the pokemon doesn't meet the criteria to use the item normally (status item on a non statused pokemon, or a potion on a Pokemon with full hp)

>>33360750
???????????

>>33362448
Yeah, I fucked up it was 5 hours. That was early in the morning though, looks like 3 for the rest of the day

Would this same concept apply to something like the Universal Pokemon Game Randomizer used to edit GBA and DS roms? Are it and pk3ds similar at all?

>>33362554
I'm pretty sure the randomizer has setting already to randomize evolutions. If you wanted to give every pokemon a bunch of evolutions you could, but you would have to do it manually with another program, probably

>>33362554
The evolution data structure is different between gens, since the max number of evolutions in gen 3 was 5, then 7 in the grns leading up to six.

Additionally, it was wouldn't be as fun as the number of evolution methods is smaller

So good news, the game doesn't care if my Pikipek is at full HP, it will still trigger an evolution if I use a potion on it. I have so many ideas for this.

My big one is with the "slide evolution" that one anon mentioned a bit back up in the thread.

Vulpix (use Burn Heal) -> Vulpix-A
Vulpix-A (use Ice Heal) -> Vulpix

Other cool things I can do is simulate "care mistakes" by having evolutions that trigger when revives are used, or when bitter items are used.

>>33363583
What will be the Numemon

>>33363597
Magikarp and Sunkern are too easy of prey

Ditto sounds good.

It won't have transform unless you tutor it back on, which in Sun/Moon is only available at the elite four. So you're stuck with whatever moveset you evolved from it.

I should just chew up an evolution slot on every Pokemon and make it ditto.

Would that be too cruel?

>>33363616
Nah, do it. Gotta have a Monzaemon though, give Ditto some crazy requirement to evolve into like Mew or something

>>33363597
Probably Ditto, it's not a very strong Pokémon and it makes some thematic sense.
But it does depends on which reason for Numemon we are talking about, there are normally two reasons to get the semi-literal shit-mons (Numemon, Sukamon and Nanimon), lots of care mistakes, but also getting old enough to digivolve but being so terrible there are no valid things to digivolve into.

>>33363660
>>33363654

Yeah, I agree. I think for the Pokemon higher up on the food chain, I will give them less proper evolutions and more "care mistakes"

>>33363654
Using Sacred Ash maybe?

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>>33363680
Not sure if that would work, since its a party use item, not a target use? I'll have to test.

Here's abomasnow's new evolutions

If you use an item during a battle which is used to evolve them, does that Pokémon evolve after the battle?
Also can the whole turn the DS upside down thing (used by Inkay to Malamar) be applied to other Pokémon, it'd be kinda funny if it was an additional requirement for evolving Voltorb into Electrode

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>>33363798
I'm so glad someone else had the same thought about voltorb. Yes it can.

Just tested the battle thing, it doesn't change the properties of the item in battle, nor does it trigger an evolution. Lame way to avoid my care mistakes

But yeah, here's our numemon in all his glory. Shaymin is the "monzaemon", being the easiest of the eight to get.

The others are for people trying to intentionally fuck around to get the legendary they want.

>>33363877
Maybe instead have it proc at lowest possible happiness, if that's possible.
Also can't the player hit B to cancel evolution?

>>33363938
Yeah, there's no way to force an evolution. So basically the only way this whole thing will work is if you play along anyway

>>33363938
By "it" I mean care mistake evolution.

Now I'm starting to think about other Pokémon, like how Unown will work, and to a lesser extent Smeargle

>>33363938
No "unhappy evolution" method available.

Also no. On an item evolution you can't hit B to cancel.

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The higher tiered evolutions are harder to do.

With how this is set up, mega evolutions for lower tier mons like Beedrill are kind of like Armor Digivolutions

Would Magikarp be the designated base fishmon for others to grow off? Should be plenty of options there.

>>33366933
Feebas is just as weak, and Wishiwashi is actually even weaker

>>33367955
I mean more thematically. Magikarp is a rather plain fish and I can imagine it splitting into many variations.
Above, people were talking about 'care mistakes', and I think Feebas would be a neat example of that.

>>33348867
>>33350372
>>33353759
I wish they were real.
Those ideas are pretty sick.

I should just make wishiwashi evolve into whatever fish Pokemon you have in your party because it "joined their school" or whatever.

>>33371888
That sounds like a pretty neat idea. It would be for like the eight weakest fish mons though, so: Magikarp, Feebas, Barboach, Remoraid, Carvahna, Goldeen, Chinchou, Finneon

These guys are spread out over two tiers, but if you made a super basic tier for the absolute weakest mons and put Wishiwashi there, it would kind of already be an exception to the rules anyway