>smogon

>>33316063
>especially now that the meta is pretty much set

no it isn't, another part of ou's shitty handling is how suspects have been delayed due to tournaments

>building a team
>use species clause and item clause
>make it Smogon UU legal
>don't use Legendaries
>have a good team that no one can complain about

why don't more people just do this? Smogon is a mess, Smogon OU is the biggest mess within the mess. Just build a general purpose team and ignore the rest.

>>33316086
>why don't more people just do this?
Some of us like to win, anon

>>33316086
kinda rhymed

ugh, smogon SUCKS, right fellas? like, learn to play the game instead of banning everything that you don't like LOL

>>33316114
imagine being so much brainwashed and smogon loyal to just shitpost or falseflag and avoid any argument because it's so funny and really makes you look smart
guess your lack of argument only confirms the state of current ou

>>33316063
Current OU is so shit I don't care anymore

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>>33316137

what are you so upset about?

>>33316063
>Z moves
>can run HP Ice for coverage because decent special attack stat
>4MSS turns it into unpredictability mode in OU since there will always be a new set to lure in and nab one of its potential "counters"
Blaziken is still fucking broken, anon

>>33316063
Why don't you actually ask smogon instead of the retards here?

>>33316063
There is barely a difference between Blaziken and Mega.

>>33316191
>can be removed by the omnipresent frog with shuriken
>4mss turn into unpredictability mode
not true, it does also fire back to it
else protean frog would be banned too with other several mons by now
requires protect most of the time, else bulk up or sword dance to do any damage, single life orb set without greed isn't an insane threat anymore, also has to pick between thunder punch, flare blitz, fighting stab and special coverage of whatever it needs the most, it does expose itself to other common C&Cs and top used mons this way

>>33316086
>why don't other people give a shit about my arbitrary standards?

>>33316063
Well the meta is not entirely set at least not for the time being, remember that the 3rd version of games brings Tutor moves and that might have an effect on it

People don't seem to take into account than nearly all of Blaziken's preferred attacks are hovering around or well over 100 BP, which gives it a massive advantage over most comparable Pokemon

>>33316328
The problem is that there are zero dedicated counters to Blaziken, much less ones that can outspeed. Hoopa-U and Hydreigon are balanced because, while they lack any counters, they can be forced out by anything faster.

Blaziken bypasses this with Speed Boost, and its setup moves combined with its unpredictability factor. Greninja can't counter- it can only check, not to mention that not every Greninja set runs Shuriken. Greninja is the only real CHECK to Blaziken, and even then most sets can't do that.

>>33316427

explain to me why Infernape is UU, but blaze blaziken is banned from OU

I'll wait

>>33316457
Blaziken is stronk

Infernape is less stronk

>>33316443
>zero dedicated counters to Blaziken

toxapex
tapu fini
dugtrio
mew
pelipper
rotom wash

>>33316457
Less attack and (eventually) speed

>>33316464

blaze blaziken has 80 base speed
infernape has 108

blaze blaziken has 120 base attack
infernape has 104

>one of these things is not like the other

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>>33316476

>eventually
>blaze

try again

>>33316457
Iron Fist ain't shit compared to Speed Boost

It sounds to me like they need to do a suspect test.

>>33316508

B L A Z E

B L A Z I K E N

CAN YOU READ MY NIGGA

>>33316531
No one uses Blaze Blaziken

>>33316541
Go back and read Anon's question.

>>33316541

NO ONE USES IT BECAUSE ITS BANNED FROM OU MY GUY

LMFAO

HOW DUMB CAN YOU POSSIBLY BE

>>33316541
That's the point you dense motherfucker. Firechicken is outright banned alltogether. Which is retarded.

>>33316569
So you want a complex ban?

>>33316565
No one used it when it was allowed in OU

>>33316457
because they dont want to admit that speed boost is broken despite no speed boost pokemon being relevant in any tier due to all of them rotting in banlists or pu hell
same reason they banned baton pass, literally "wont someone think of the ninjasks"

>>33316473
Please learn what a counter is before participating in discussion.

>>33316579

you're not allowed to use that as an excuse anymoreafter the enduring shitfest that was their handling of Baton Pass

also, what the FUCK is even complex about saying "you can use this pokemon with this ability, but not this one"? compared to the 4 different iterations of the baton pass clause, that's tame as fuck.

come to think of it, this would also let them resolve the crisis with Dugtrio. Arena Trap is the problem, and Sand Veil duggy is still serviceable (if not in OU, then certainly in UU) to allow it to be used. but instead they're just going to needlessly ban the entire ability instead of addressing the one specific case that makes it a problem.

>>33316590
BECAUSE SPEED BOOST WAS THE BETTER ABILITY

DUDE YOU ARE ONE OF THE MOST RETARDED HUMAN BEINGS IVE EVER MET AND THATS SAYING A LOT

PLEASE STOP EMBARASSING YOURSELF

>>33316607

what is your definition of a counter? what is the commonly accepted definition of a counter?

>>33316600
if speed boost was broken those pokemon wouldn't be in pu hell

>>33316617

Not him but a counter switches in risk free and poses an immediate threat

>>33316610
>you're not allowed to use that as an excuse anymoreafter the enduring shitfest that was their handling of Baton Pass
But they fixed that. If anything BP showed why complex bans showed be avoided.

>>33316617
>spoonfeed me!
here you go:
www.smogon.com/smog/issue32/checks-and-counters

>>33316063
Go ask on smogon, you won't get good answers here.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/simple-questions-simple-answers-thread-read-the-op-before-posting-a-thread.3587186/

>>33316621
yes im sure if they gave sunkern shadow tag it would be ou material

>>33316627
>>33316650

how do toxapex, pelipper, and fini not meet that definition? what about phys def jellicent? mega pert?

>>33316635
baton pass clauses up until the outright ban were, as you said, what they were trying to avoid, but what smogon means by "complex" is closer to "needlessly complex", as evidenced by that situation

saying "you can't use speed boost blaziken but you can use blaze blaziken" is not "complex" at all. it's literally a binary decision

>>33316610
There is nothing complex about banning a certain ability and allowing another ability. The problem is that with that you go on a slippery slope. Why stop at Dugtrio and Blaziken?

There are over 800 Pokemon, most of them with atleast 2 abilites. Technically you'd have to look at every ability. They want to avoid that.

>>33316692

technically you would, but practically, everyone would only focus on the most controversial ones.

it's not a slippery slope

>>33316304
the difference is important enough to run the mega tho

>>33316684
Earthquake
Thunderpunch/Hp Electric
Flare Blitz
Hp Electric/knock off
High Jump Kick

>>33316728
SD thunderpunch set was pretty common before it was kicked last gen

>>33316692
>Slippery slope
Yeah you can't be too careful with those Speed Boosters next thing you know they will fuck your dog and eat your dad.

>>33316746
Yeah I didn't even think about SD for some reason. Thunderpunch still has a high chance to 2hko Jellicent if rocks are up without using SD before.
HP Electric is bad for anything other than Slowbro which noone uses anyways.
I fucked up and mixed fini with lele since I'm an idiot too but I'm guess Thunderpunch SD also cuntfucks her.

>>33316728

EQ is the only one out of those moves that does more than 50% to a phys def toxapex on a max roll. pelipper walls any set that doesn't have electric coverage and bold fini switches in to any move, outspeeds (beacuse it's base 85) and kills with surf

now, if only there was a ground-flying pokemon who is reasonably physically bulky and has access to intimidate that you could switch into after taking one EQ/Tpunch to cover both the Tpunch and second EQ options......well, I can't think of one, guess you're right, blaziken is just irreparably broken :)

also
>5 moves

>>33316678
I really have no idea what kind of point you're trying to drive at, abilities don't exist in a vacuum

>>33316824
>EQ is the only one out of those moves that does more than 50% to a phys def toxapex on a max roll. pelipper walls any set that doesn't have electric coverage and bold fini switches in to any move, outspeeds (beacuse it's base 85) and kills with surf
meh they all get buttfucked by +2 punch
>now, if only there was a ground-flying pokemon who is reasonably physically bulky and has access to intimidate that you could switch into after taking one EQ/Tpunch to cover both the Tpunch and second EQ options......well, I can't think of one, guess you're right, blaziken is just irreparably broken :)
didn't stop it last time :^)
>also 5 moves
worked well with aegislash

>>33316824
So all your teams will need Pelipper Toxapex Fini and Landorus or they get fucked by Blaziken and even then you're likely to lose one Pokemon trying to guess which moves it has.
They all also lose to SD Electrium Z Thunderpunch besides Landorus who dies to the easily splashable hidden power ice.

>>33316864
>meh they all get buttfucked by +2 punch
what is switching

>didn't stop it last time :^)
toxapex and tapu fini didn't even exist last time 8)

>worked well with aegislash
not even comparable. smogonsword got banned almost singlehandedly because of the sub/toxic set

>>33316867
no, my teams need ONE of those water types and landorus. and since my team already has landorus because I'm playing OU, that means I only need the first half

megas killed singles long ago and z moves are just pissing on its grave
smogon ou is just as shitty and unbalanced as every other singles format until magearna both greniggers duggy mega diancie and maybe zygarde are banned

>>33316864
>meh they all get buttfucked by +2 punch
Blaziken is consistently the only OU ban defended both with "it has (insert 5 coverage moves here)" AND "oh it's checks die to a +2 (insert move here)" at the same time with absolutely no irony.

If we judged which mons were broke based on how many of their checks are KO'd by an (apparently free) +2 attack we'd have to ban half the fucking tier.

With stones themselves being a common ban as well as the Baton Pass set (which was the crux of the "you never know what set it's going to run!!!!" argument) there's no reason that it at the very least vanilla BK shouldn't be re-tested.

The fact that Lando / Tapus / UBeasts have been given free reign to shit on the meta while shit like Blaziken have an apparent indefinite ban with no re-test in sight is just ridiculous.

>>33316924
>what is switching
defeating the whole purpose of it being a counter
>toxapex and tapu fini didn't even exist last time 8)
try reading what i quoted
>not even comparable
>durr it can't just run 11 moves
still same argument

>>33316063
with bravu birdo and Azumarill out of the picture Blaziken lost its only chance of being balanced in OU

>>33316924
>no, my teams need ONE of those water types and landorus. and since my team already has landorus because I'm playing OU, that means I only need the first half
Yet this core can still lose to a Blaziken carrying the right moves.

>>33316692
I can see Pokemon between Ubers and a lower tier being split by ability, probably the best time to have done that would have been gen 5 since the same case could be made for Excadrill and Thundurus-I too.

>>33316948
>If we judged which mons were broke based on how many of their checks are KO'd by an (apparently free) +2 attack we'd have to ban half the fucking tier.
problem with blaze is that it worked in practice
>The fact that Lando / Tapus / UBeasts have been given free reign to shit on the meta while shit like Blaziken have an apparent indefinite ban with no re-test in sight is just ridiculous.
i'd be more concerned with the handful of broken shit currently running in OU than trying to add even more

>>33316966
4MSS is used as justification to keep plenty of shit in OU, what makes Blaziken a special case?

I could see the argument back when the boost / pass set was a thing but it's not now so it should be judged along the same lines every other sweeper / wall-breaker is.

Also what's up with the "+2" meme in balance discussion these days.

"A sweeper with every coverage move it can learn can KO lots of mons' at +2" - has never been a good argument because almost every sweeper at +2 can get a bunch of KOs with their ~entire~ moveset.

>>33316954
>defeating the whole purpose of it being a counter

>WOOOOOOOOOOW I SWITCHED IN AFTER I LET THIS POKEMON SET UP AND IT DID A LOT OF DAMAGE

hey dude guess what

you can have more than 2 pokemon on your team

>>33316966
not an argument

pex+lando covers all options with the tiniest modicum of prediction

>>33316987
>problem with blaze is that it worked in practice

'worked' is the qualifier here. I fully admit Blaziken was too good when Baton Pass was around and it's Mega is likely still too good or at minimum bordering on Uber, but the game has changed.

Like every other sweeper Blaziken now either runs coverage or set-up and as such is locked into 4MSS just as much as every Poke.

This isn't even getting into the nitty-gritty of things like how even with Speed Boost it still has no priority and how main Fighting coverage in HJK runs a decent chance of suiciding the thing - a problem that old life orb BK has always run into when combined with recoil from Flare Blitz.

Again, I'm open to the fact that the bird may still be broke. But given just how much of the original bans crux has changed and how much arguably more oppressive stuff has been running around the meta for months, I don't think there's much argument that there isn't a bias against BK that just isn't present for most other mons.

>>33317009
>what makes Blaziken a special case?
Speed Boost making it near impossible to reliably revenge kill and not having true counters.

>not an argument
Yes it is, you're saying something that is blatantly untrue, if you play vs a guy who outpredicts you then your gay core dies and you lose 6-0 to Blaziken without you being able to revenge kill it.

>>33317103
>Speed Boost making it near impossible to reliably revenge kill

dude
my guy

let me fill you in on something

this is the original question all of the discussion in this thread is based around: >>33316457

WE. ARE. NOT. DISCUSSING. SPEED. BOOST. BLAZIKEN.

>>33317131
Oh the OP didn't specify that.
Then it's because of the non complex ban rule.

>>33317131
>this is the original question all of the discussion in this thread is based around: >>33316457
no its based off of OP. You are the only one having an autistic outburst.

>>33317131
Why would you want to run Blaze Blaziken? It's frail as fuck with 80 base speed

>>33317018
>hey dude guess what you can have more than 2 pokemon on your team
>moving goalposts
well i'm glad i gave you that link

>>33317131

The answer is that they don't like complex bans, now calm down. If you allow blaze blaziken then "waahhhh how come I can't use torrent greninja in UU, how come I can't use shaymin without seed flare in OU, how come I can't use moody smeargle as long as it doesn't have protect/substitute!"

>>33317103
>if you play vs a guy who outpredicts you then your gay core dies

This is exactly my point though.

Your opponent out-predicted you with a setup sweeper and is now rolling through your entire team? Of course you lose that's how it works with pretty much every sweeper in the tier.

>Speed Boost making it near impossible to reliably revenge kill.

Regardless of the fact that this doesn't even apply to Blaze Blaziken -

Plenty of its checks can survive un-boosted coverage and KO in return, and that's not factoring in priority attacks if BK has taken damage already - which is likely given everyone's favorite calculation STABs are Flare Blitz and HJK.

>>33317150
>>33317157

OP didn't specif7 that but the vast majorioty of the posts iun the thread are indierctly linked to the post i quoted

just go back and follow the quote trails if you think I'm lying

>>33317165
because everyone assumes that speed boost blaziken is the problem and will stay banned

>>33317170
yeah me too, because it shows me that you have this retarded idea that something not having a counter but having a significant amount of hard checks means its just hopelessly broken. neck yourself dipshit

>>33317172
read the thread, already covered above. it's not a slippery slope

>>33317131
>blaze blaziken

RU?

>>33317183
>Your opponent out-predicted you with a setup sweeper and is now rolling through your entire team? Of course you lose that's how it works with pretty much every sweeper in the tier.
Usually set up sweepers have true counters for that set up set. Blaziken doesn't.

>>33316063
Have you heard of Infernape?

Is pretty good rn, Scarf Infernape is a decent antimeta option

No imagine if Infernape has more attack, and Speed Boost as ability, so it can run LO instead of Scarf

Yeah

>>33317191
>read the thread, already covered above. it's not a slippery slope

I read the thread and it is a slippery slope. There is literally NO difference to what you are saying about blaze blaziken, and having torent greninja in UU. Or having this pokemon with this ability in this tier, but not that tier, and that ability pokemon combo is only allowed in that tier, then suddenly we have almost every pokemon inhabiting multiple tiers. It is complex as soon as you say "I am banning this pokemon only if X"

Reminder that the thread topic is questioning Speed Boost Blaziken, stop derailing with Blaze Blaziken and muh complex bans argument (which is a meme since Smogon does still perform complex bans).

>>33317191
>significant amount
Majority of the mons you kept naming aren't "hard checks" and get wrecked by one (1) set.

>>33317206
Yeah, it's fucking nothing.
What's your point?
You are forced to use Protect and then using either 3 attacks or a boosting move, which leaves you with 2 attacks to do anything.

Even if you opt for SD no Protect you'll face Fake Out and Water Shuriken or whatever beside also limiting your longevity with Flare Blitz.

>>33317231
>(which is a meme since Smogon does still perform complex bans).

Name three. There have been a couple of cases in the past, like drizzle/swift swim but none exist any more. It's why they just ban baton pass outright instead of saying "scolipede + baton pass" or "3 baton pass mons" for better or worse

I wish they just banned drizzle outright in gen 5, but it would be stupid to ban swift swim since so many pokemon got it, and rain dance teams would be fucked, but that's the most complex it's ever got

>>33317206
I used one last gen on a balance team and it was fairly competent. It has a wide array of attacks and good speed but was particularly punishing to run when attacks didn't connect. Its also C+ this gen

>>33317267
>Its also C+ this gen
There's also been a lot of talk of raising to B- since it's one if the only scarfers that can OHKO shift gear magearna

>>33317265
>i-if it there's a complex ban in the past metas and we are in the current year meta those now don't count as complex bans anymore

They kept reducing the BP mons per team as well multiple times.

Chatter ban is also retarded, it was just a way to ban a specific Chatot so they had to find another system.

Don't forget how they also tried to find new ways to do bans, see Shadow Tag / Mega Gengar in Ubers.

>>33317193
NU

>>33317229

no one will care about anything except the most controversial ones. (torrent greninja being one of them, sure). you have ZERO evidence to support an infinite regression scenario in practice which completely undercuts your only compelling impact.

>>33317231
the thread topic is blaziken in general, and the direction of dicussion has clearly been blaze blaziken given that people are assuming speed boost is still busted. stop trying to cut off existing discussion.

>>33317232
they're pretty fucking hard checks

if you want to divulvge this mythical perfect set that shits on every possible check no matter how good your opponent's prediction is, let's see it.

>>33317265
>name three
endless battle
chatter
the baton pass fiasco (which, as has been said earlier, was way beyond any definition of "complex" and into "gordian knot" territory; they banned the entire move because allowing only dry-passing is almost impossible to code into showdown)

Plag VGC instead

>>33317332
>you have ZERO evidence to support an infinite regression scenario in practice which completely undercuts your only compelling impact.
>he says this directly after making some baseless declaration about an entire population not caring about something

Get off of thesaurus.com and grow the fuck up

>>33317332
>they're pretty fucking hard checks
pelliper, rotom-w, jellicent aren't hard checks let alone even check it. If you are arguing that blaziken has checks then I'd agree. So does every pokemon in OU. Doesn't make it any less banworthy.

>>33317301
BL4 and we'll call it a day

>>33317287
Do the Leppa restrictions count as a complex ban

>>33316692
So what? You can't keep making the slippery slope excuse forever

>>33317357
>He used them there big words so I'm going to imply he's a child

Wew anon, you sure put his argument in its place...

>>33317332
>and the direction of dicussion has clearly been blaze blaziken
No you keep trying to force it. The question was answered several times.

>>33316635
But now we finally realized what was so broken about it and they still ban it outright. I know it might be difficult to but until they TRY to only ban stat passing it's not exactly proof that complex bans don't work

>>33317379

I did put his argument in his place. He said my argument is baseless because no one would care and claimed I lacked evidence. When he was the one who clearly lacked evidence by saying "your argument is invalid because NO ONE WOULD CARE." which is the most blatantly baseless statement in this whole thread.

I just called him a child at the end of that because it is childish to claim "NO EVIDENCE!" to try and diffuse an argument and then turn around and make baseless statements. It's also childish to try and seem intelligent by constantly throwing around logical fallacies when that poster still has yet to explain how it is any different to allow blaze blaziken in OU, but not "garchomp without earthquake" or the like

>>33317359
I think the point is that not only does it have checks - but the entire crux of its ban has since been flipper on its head now that one of the key sets that made it broken is gone.

At +0 Blaziken would be pretty standard for a sweeper in OU and is checked by the usual shit you'd expect like Toxapex etc.

At +2 things start to get a little iffy thanks to the aforementioned Speed Boost making revenge kills difficult.

Still, this doesn't change the fact that to be at +2 (So 2 STABS = Swords Dance) means that Blaziken now has 1 coverage move and as such is suffering from 4MSS like very other sweeper. No EQ means its checked by some mons, no Thunder Punch means is checked by others.

It also lacks priority so any switch in that can take at least one hit has that going for it - and low power on prio moves doesn't matter thanks to how frail Blaziken is and how it runs suicidal dual-stabs in the form of Flare Blitz and HJK.

Speaking of HJK - little credence is given to the fact that while super powerful, HJK is considered somewhat iffy on pretty much every mon' that gets it besides BK for some reason. It's still a big risk against Ghost swap ins and anything switch in that survives a hit and is running protect etc.

>>33317357

Dude, the onus is on you to prove that an infinite regression will happen in practice. I get that it's theoretically possible, but the point I've been making is that only the most controversial cases will ever be taken up by the tier councils on the grounds of basic human psychology and resource (time) scarcity.

I don't have to prove it won't happen because THAT'S NOT HOW A FUCKING ARGUMENT WORKS.

>>33317359
still waiting on that set bud. any day now

>>33317386
I asked ONE QUESTION: "Why should blaze blaziken be banned when infernape is UU?".80% of the posts in the thread since that point have been about that scenario because, as it has been shown, people are in agreement that speed boost blaziken is probably still a huge problem.

>>33317467
>still waiting on that set bud. any day now
pokemon you mentioned were
> toxapex, pelipper, and fini, jellicent swampert
all handled by the SD set. However you're still stuck on the idea that the discussion is blaze blaziken. It's NU trash and wouldn't argue otherwise.

>>33317467

Stop trying to act like a hyper intellectual, kid. "theoretically possible" What do you mean theoretically possible, there is literally no fucking difference between blaze blaziken and any other pokemon move/ability combo. It's not like we are making huge logical leaps here. If you allow blaze blaziken, that opens the floodgates to tons of other people whining about other combos. Nobody ever said it would be every single pokemon or "an infinite regression" it's just a lot more drama and arguing that would go on as soon as they allow blaziken. That's called precedent, not a fucking infinite slippery slope fallacy regression etc you keep googling.

Why would you even argue that it's a good system that complex bans are a good thing for smogon to take on, "if they are popular/controversial" which could potentially be a lot.

>>33317467
>but the point I've been making is that only the most controversial cases will ever be taken up by the tier councils on the grounds of basic human psychology and resource (time) scarcity.

Bullshit. Have you ever been to smogon? The forums will burst into riots over the smallest shit. Those autists have all day to argue shit. They even debating allowing speed boost combusken in OU once blaziken was banned. They are trying to prevent that becoming 1000 times worst just for blaziken

>>33317516
>MUH SLIPPERY SLOPE

>>33317332
must be hard reading the op

>>33317374
well they do count but who would actually be against the endless battle clause?
even the official formats have a timer to prevent it

>>33317545

You know that other anon is the other one calling it a slippery slope, and I'm arguing it's not a slippery slope, right?

Because it is NOT a slippery slope by definition. Slippery slope is the logical fallacy when 2 end results (one discrete and one more extreme) are erroneously said to be tantamount to each other, therefore neither are good. And this isn't two different end results because as I said, there is NO difference between Blaziken with blaze versus torrent greninja, etc. Therefore not a slippery slope and that other retard who is definitely 13 who is googling logical fallacies is one mistaken here
But your green text sure was well thought out and worded, I enjoyed the discussion with you!

>>33317560
Im sorry ironic shitposting doesnt hold too well in these threads.

>>33317516
theoretically possible means "if we ban this one VERY VISIBLE AND VERY CONTROVERSIAL ability/pokemon combo, then that means everyone would force the tier councils to take a position about every other possible permutation in existence, no matter how trivial it is"

that will never be true in practice.

again, you have absolutely zero evidence that suggests there would be an incessant and sustained amount of whining for dozens of other move combinations; when have you ever seen someone seriously complain about EQ dugtrio, or water shuriken gren, or flamethrower zard Y? oh right, never, because it doesn't fucking happen.

the only thing people argue about is extremely conspicuous pokemon/ability combos, mostly because they've been the subject of bans.

>>33317547
you want to argue that speed boost blaziken shouldn't be banned? when everyone who's defending the blaze ban thus far would defend it even more vehemently if it had speed boost?

go right ahead, dude; be my fucking guest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLmSSzGdQd0&feature=youtu.be

Japanese Pokemon

So does Blaziken have hair, or are those feathers?

>>33317584
>if we ban this one VERY VISIBLE AND VERY CONTROVERSIAL ability/pokemon combo, then that means everyone would force the tier councils to take a position about every other possible permutation in existence, no matter how trivial it is"

I never said that, you are the one who implied that.

again, you have absolutely zero evidence that suggests there would be an incessant and sustained amount of whining for dozens of other move combinations; when have you ever seen someone seriously complain about EQ dugtrio, or water shuriken gren, or flamethrower zard Y? oh right, never, because it doesn't fucking happen.

It does happen. The only reason it doesn't happen more is because precedent. If you want to see people arguing about complex bans literally just go to the forums. Huge threads arguing about how baton pass should only be banned on scolipede, or how moody is only broken on X pokemon, or this very fucking thread's topic. If you are going to play the burden of proof card, and can't take my word for it, go fucking look at the smogon forums, I don't care enough about blaze blaziken to do that for you.

>oh right, never, because it doesn't fucking happen.

Yet again you are crying burden of proof while providing no proof for your counterarguments. I'm sure you can find evidence otherwise in one of the many baton pass threads

>>33317229
You still wouldn't be able to use torrent greninja in uu because greninja is ou by usage.

I'm not even going to give you the dignity of a (you), man, you are just absolutely too fucking retarded to bother with

>baton pass should banned on scolipede, moody smeargle, torrent greninja

these are the only examples of people actually doing what you say they would do if blaze. never mind that baton pass was its own debacle, and no one takes the Moody unban arguments seriously. but EVEN IF blaze blaziken was """""complex unbanned""""", I'm willing to accept those three cases as the fallout.

And I'd just like everyone here to notice the following
Anonymous 08/17/17(Thu)19:51:56 No.33317229▶>>33317332

>>33317191 (You)
>read the thread, already covered above. it's not a slippery slope

I read the thread and it is a slippery slope. There is literally NO difference to what you are saying about blaze blaziken, and having torent greninja in UU. Or having this pokemon with this ability in this tier, but not that tier, and that ability pokemon combo is only allowed in that tier, then suddenly we have almost every pokemon inhabiting multiple tiers. It is complex as soon as you say "I am banning this pokemon only if X"

So.
In that post, you say DEFINITIVELY that it's a slippery slope, and then you spend the rest of the thread trying to convince everyone else that it's not a slippery slope and that you're actually saying they're the same thing

get out of my fucking sight you gaslighting piece of shit.

>>33316361
t. Smogon

>>33317730
>these are the only examples of people actually doing what you say they would do if blaze.

Burden of proof anon kun ;)

>>33317730
>but EVEN IF blaze blaziken was """""complex unbanned""""", I'm willing to accept those three cases as the fallout.

You do know how tier works with smogon, right? They basically unban everything then go by usage. If they started this "separating usage by ability" thing with blaziken, then they would do so for all pokemon. Pokemon would automatically get tiered by usage and councils would HAVE to address problem pokemon, it's not like the councils would only address popular pokemon. Every single instance of some pokemon becoming centralizing to a tier would be another thing for councils to debate, which would only be compounded by tiering by abilities.

You sound hilariously like a chris chan tier blaziken fag

Here's an idea


Learn to think for yourselves and stop following their rules and stop forcing people to play by them