Did we take these for granted? Were they actually better than

>>33275086
What, is the pokemon cycle finally kicking in for these?

>>33275086
People tend to forget they were first 3d games and first worldwide release.

The flaws were unavoidable but they still managed to make it great, too bad a polished version was never released

>>33275086
>an hour between the first and second gym

>>33275127
that was good. Switch up the pacing, make it interesting

Yeah, they had at least some exploration in them, didn't have a billion cutscenes, amazing Pokemon variety, and the improvements to breeding and online were so amazing that I can't believe they came from Game Freak, I sincerely can't.

What ruins the experience though is how easy it is, gyms are a joke. I'm hoping a good difficulty rom hack gets made for these games, and I mean a pure difficulty rom hack, not a shitty fanfic and/or "all Pokemon" one.

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>we
since when this placed was worst than reddit?
This board is beyond salvation

>>33275097
no gyms are objectively better and weren't thrown in last second like trials

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>>33275086

No, they were still boring and unfinished.

Just because we're getting confirmation on just how unfinished and rushed SM was doesn't make XY any less unfinished than it already was

>>33275086
Holy shit, no. They were and still are the worst games in the series, along with Diamond and Pearl.
Interestingly enough, "this" is what happens when /vp/ doesn't get its dose of hype. We'll all be laughing in a year from now, thinking how we could doubt the second coming of BW2.

>>33275127
I didn't mind this, since they used the time to get you to explore, and you got to experience more of the region and its atmosphere.

The problem is that the rest of the game feels so barren in comparison.

>>33275086
Incredibly comfy but somehow also very bland, particularly 3rd gym - 7th gym.
We needed a Z but my guess is that the terror attacks caused them to scrap it.

I'd probably rate XY 9/10, SM 8.5/10, and ORAS 6/10

I liked XY over SM because of the PSS, regional dex variety, lack of cutscenes, and the better dungeon design. But I also liked the totem fights in SM, the difficulty in general was far better balanced than XY, and some of the QoL changes were good.

>>33275262

I'd guess that they dropped dev of Z to rush out SM for the Pokemon 20th Anniversary

>>33275204
The second coming of the game that introduced pay to win DLC with Dream Radar, didn't let you breed prior to the credits, has pacing issues nearing SM levels in its starting hours, has a postgane made up of a legendary hunt on par with ORAS, and forsook a proper, quality Battle Frontier for the shallow, nostalgia pandering tripe of the PWT? Yikes.

>>33275279
I'd rate XY a 7/10, ORAS a 6/10 and SM a 4/10, this is mostly because I enjoyed gen 4/hgss and 5 that much more though.

>>33275309

I don't know how you could have that kind of difference between XY and SM when they are plagued by the same issues

The only thing XY does better than SM is the PSS and meta functionality

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>>33275290
These are probably the worst arguments against BW2 I've ever seen here, sheesh. I'm not even going to bother arguing with you, since the very first point is already retarded as fuck.
>pay to win DLC

>>33275312
>cutscene density isn't nearly as high, though still higher than it should be
>actual dungeons
>generally a better map
>the gyms XY had were much better than the trials SM had
>wider Pokemon variety
>better multiplayer functionality
>smoother menus and input
>better art direction

>>33275316
>literally the only way to legally get the meta defining Therians was to cough up four bucks for Dream Radar
>had to own a 3DS too so that's another $180~$250

>>33275335

I suppose the point about gyms is correct. I hadn't been thinking about it that way because the gyms in XY were some of the my least favourite in the franchise, but it is at least better than trials

Same goes for dungeons, I guess. Terrible dungeons is at least slightly better than no dungeons.

disagree on art direction and map though, I tend to think Alola's flavor is way more interesting than Kalos. And despite all the bitching about cutscenes (not entirely undeserved) at least the story is more interesting than the abortion that was the XY story

everything else is fair

i played xy after sm and i liked xy a lot more

why do people complain about overworld models when they look and animate a lot better. chibi is fine and better than whatever the fuck the arm swing shit is.
the dex is the most diverse of all other pokemon games, and the region folding back in on itself in lumiose is pretty neat even if lumoise camera is aids. coastal, central, and mountain were neat and had climate diversity. yeah the story was extremely shit, the league was underwhelming, team flare sucks, and the box legendaries are just ok, but its not a bad game

>>33275187
We should in fact be angrier at XY for starting this trend. Loads of wasted potential down the drain, for what?

>>33275290
How is bringing back gym leaders from ALL regions nostalgia pandering

I never beat X, but I did have over a hundred hours. Yet I only got as far as beating the second gym. I almost felt like there are TOO MANY Pokémon as I went through the game. I was literally at 151 Pokémon seen by my second badge. I get that people like variety to their team and want access to their favorites, but I literally try to catch everything as it becomes available and each route was suffering. Earlier games had the right amount of new Pokémon per route. A regional Pokédex is just fine with around 200 Pokémon. The next 400+ should be post-game with the National Pokédex using swarms, the Poké Radar, and other methods that make revisiting routes worth it. Sun and Moon was like this on Route 1, but the rest of the game evened out with location distribution.

I also dislike just how easy the game was getting. I turned off the Exp. Share right away, and I'm sad that there's no option to have it like it once was. Sun and Moon managed to be more consistently challenging with examples like Lusamine's Clefable, Guzma's Golisopod, certain trials like Mimikyu, and the difficulty spiking up as you got further in the game. Gladion's pre-League team was at least 5 levels above mine. I used Pokémon-Amie in X which is where I really screwed up while I didn't use Refresh in Sun. But even without the petting, I think that Sun and Moon were more challenging overall than anything I've seen in X.

The small stretch of Kalos I did explore was better than anything in Alola though. I felt there was a bit more in optional locations and exploration, even if the region itself is considered linear compared to pre-Unova. Meaningful exploration is probably the most important thing to me in Pokémon.

As for the story, I don't really care much about the "Your friends are stopping you every single route", but it's not as annoying as the railroaded cutscene simulator that was Sun and Moon.

>>33275905
>too many pokemon is a bad thing
>didnt finish first playthrough
do you even like pokemon

>>33275926
I like it for different reasons to most of the people who play it. I don't care about personalizing the game.

>>33275086
No but People take New Pokémon for granted.

It was alright, and helped make online truly accessible to everyone. As a game it's about on par with most first versions, maybe a little bit worse.
ORAS kept all of XY's advancements (except for customs) and put it into RS, while adding a little bit of new content. I personally prefer that game to XY.

>>33275973
To elaborate, I don't really care about customization and still have the default clothes in both X and Sun (though I do buy them all). I don't nickname my Pokémon. I don't really choose Pokémon based on what I like, but more over what fulfills my needs (usually catching Pokémon). I go through every route catching every new Pokémon that appears. The only reason I really trade is to fill up Pokédex slots I wouldn't be able to on my own. I usually quantify my enjoyment by how enjoyable it is to traverse the region from beginning to end (linear regions are more boring than regions with branching paths and Hoenn has way too much water), how enjoyable the story is (minimalist like Kanto feels better than a visual novel like Alola), the music (not a fan of Hoenn because the GBA has terrible music), and the overall single-player experience. I do prefer games where your friends aren't going with you every step of the way. Solitude makes it feel like YOUR journey.

>>33275116
I think a polished Pokemon Z would have been an excellent game.

>all megas from ORAS added
>more mega evo users in the game
>more streamlined Team Flare
>access to Power Plant and Volcanion
>Zygarde collection quest in the right fucking region
>Hard Mode

>>33275086
They were better than the meme opinion here that they were irredeemable shit. Not much better, though. XY/ORAS was likely a low point for the series overall

>>33275086
Of course they were. They're better than RB, GS, RS, DP and BW. Especially DP. The bitching is just from underage who are in their "NOT MUH POKEMON" phase.

>>33276402
Permanent Perfect Zygarde would had been nice

>>33275368
>And despite all the bitching about cutscenes (not entirely undeserved) at least the story is more interesting than the abortion that was the XY story
lol

XY's story was a hot turd.
SM's story was like a three course meal of shit.

I'd take XY's 'story' over SM's any day. It was honestly a minor distraction in XY anyway, which is a pretty good thing imo. I don't want anything more than 'loose strokes' stories in Pokemon games, they always suck.

>>33275086
I always liked them well enough. Fucked up by removing shit as per usual but made QoL changes that made them better overall unlike S/M which also undid some of those QoL changes.

For some reason I really liked AZ.

Wandering 3000 year old giant hobo who just wants to atone for his past mistakes and reconnect with his lost Pokémon.

They actually made an interesting and mysterious character. It made the story for me.

The dex was great. The new Pokémon were spectacular imo.

But everything else was sorta bad.

>>33275127
>two hours before being allowed to play the game in SM

they desperately needed a third version, but they'll remain trash forever

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>>33275127
Gave me the false hope i was in for a meaty game. But it's a gym rush after that.

>>33277207
It took me 4 hours to really enjoy the first part of the game, the first few gyms were memorable. Then it just kinda rushed and the gyms blended together or didn't stand out enough for me.

>>33275127
I liked that. Its the pacing after the second gym the problem.

>>33275086
Yes, people are way too fucking hard on XY. Just because the games since then didn't improve on them very much doesn't make them bad. Seriously, debate these points:

> First game in 3D. Looks gorgeous imo.
> 3D battle models were great. This is before we knew they wouldn't add any animations or anything even in the next fucking generation.
> Excellent starter designs
> Pokedex in general, although small, has some of the best designs in the series, and is one of the most consistent overall
> Region is great. It has a unique look with the french flair, and isn't linear like Unova.
> TONS of QOL improvements, especially in the area of breeding for competitive mons
> Trainer Customisation. Everyone wanted this and we finally got it. And its better than in Sun & Moon, with way more clothing choices and styles instead of 20 recoloured sleeveless shirts.
> HUGE regional dex that made every route interesting, and offers tons of replayability. I really hope they do this again.
> Horde battles were great even if they ran like shit. Much better than SOS battles for EV training
> Super Training let casuals get in on EV training. Removed in SM for no reason whatsoever.
> Wonder trades were a fun distraction
> Friend Safari's were a fun way of getting decent IV Pokemon
> PSS made battling and trading almost built into the main adventure
> Thriving online trading community up until the release of ORAS. Especially before Bank.
> POKEMON AMIE. Like even if you don't use this anymore - this was a HUGE feature to add and the animations for the Pokemon are really great. I'm glad it exists.
> Divisive point, but I like most Mega Evolutions
> Rollerskates were cool.
> Consecutive fishing increasing shiny chance is cool
> O-Powers were cool, as was sharing with friends (easily because of PSS)
> You can sit on benches.

I love XY.

>Worst post game since kanto and johto

I'm still mad

>>33275086
No, they are still shit. They started a downward spiral of lazy bullshit and are rightfully hated. Only RBGY had a shittier post-game, and at least they had the excuse of being the first games ever.

Will we ever have another Gen 5 tier game

>>33275086
I've enjoyed them while current.

No reason to play again though, like most first versions.

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>>33276374
Trevor, is that you?

>>33275127
It was the fact the jammed an entire Pokedex in before the second gym

>>33277390
>Rollerskates were cool
Such a small thing, but fucking this, I loved the movement in the game with the roller skates

>>33277945
Nope

>>33275086
XY had a lot of great pokemon and features, and i still think SM is shit, with its slow/weak mons and non-serendipitous features. USM will really have to try harder to fix what it broke

>>33275086
Id rather be getting Z than USUM

>>33275086
X and Y came after the best games in the series and are resultingly underrated. They were certainly leagues ahead of SM.

>>33275086
Pretty sure the rule of thumb is we can't admit to liking/pretend to start liking a gen of games until they're at least two generations old. So...get back to us when Gen 8 rolls around.

>>33277880
"I hate something so everyone else hates it too."

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>>33277390
>Excellent starter designs
>Shitnaught
>Excellent design

>>33275905
I used to try to get all the Pokémon from each route before moving on. XY gave me the inventive to move on and come back later to take a break from the story. So it wasn't a burden and drastically increased my play time.

They were clever to split the dex into 3 150 chunks so players could choose their favourite to do if 450 was too much. Having so many in the wild made national dex completion much easier.

Pelipper and Dugtrio were a burden.

>>33275086
They're bad games. SM just managed to be far worse. It's not being entitled or wrong for wanting games of the same quality as previous generations.

>>33279314
>SM just managed to be far worse.
I disagree
XY was bad than SM

>>33275086
I had to force myself to beat it because it was boring me to death. Probably my least liked game aside from BW1, it felt ridiculously derivative compared to BW2 which was amazing.

>>33276959
Completely agree with this. AZ was stand out in an otherwise lackluster story, though I still feel he was poorly handled and is carried only because of how wild his concept and lore is, and how muted his encounters are. He only gets any real semblence of character at the very end, even if that was actually done well imo.

I feel SM and XY have the opposite problems regarding story. XY gave you the chance to have your own adventure, with story bits popping up as the occasional lines from NPC's and Holocaster transmissions, gradually building but still mostly out-of-the-way until the actual climax occurs. However, the story itself is a poor one, and the silliness of Team Flare and the over-the-top weapon poorly offset the gravity of the situation they tried to build, which just ended up making the situation little more than a weird jumble.

SM actually does have a good story going for it, with surprisingly mature themes and a far better balance of silly and serious. However, the constant interruptions, the constant cutscenes (I count cutscenes as anything that isn't a voluntary encounter or battle, where you are unable to access the menu) and being forcefully pulled around by the NPCs really hurt the immersion. If we get a game with XY's pacing and SM's story, it would probably be the best we could get.

>>33275127
That was good. And then you literally get the last 6 back to back baka

>>33279177
I was talking more about the first stages. They're all fantastic. And then I really love Greninja, and Delphox and Chesnaught seem to have their fans. I'd say it's a good set overall.

>>33275086
No. They were not. They're still the absolute shittiest ones in the entire series.

>>33276697

Or Zygarde complete with Aura Break, that way it can not get completely sweeped by the thing its supposed to keep in check.

>>33275097
Pretty much. By gen 8 they'll be underrated masterpieces for true patricans god I hate how predictable this fanbase can be.

>>33277390
> First game in 3D.
It looks like lo-res shit. Hell, Super Mario 64 DS looks better.
> 3D battle models were great.
There's no point in liking them when they're unfinished. Archeops looking retarded and Salamence gliding there looks awkward.
> Excellent starter designs
what is Delphox?
> Pokedex in general, although small, has some of the best designs in the series
Klefki, Avalugg, Delphox, and Slurpuff exist.
> Region is great. It has a unique look with the french flair, and isn't linear like Unova.
The French stuff is sprinkled. Kalos is an unorganized cluttered mess.
> Trainer Customisation. Everyone wanted this and we finally got it. And its better than in Sun & Moon
For the chicks it's great. The dudes get the same two types of pants and shirts with different colors.
> HUGE regional dex that made every route interesting, and offers tons of replayability.
To mask the fact they went with so few designs and had to stuff Gen 1 in there.
> Wonder trades were a fun distraction
For a week until it became "huehue Rattata for something cool"
> Divisive point, but I like most Mega Evolutions
Subjective, of course. IMO megas are one of the dumbest things GF ever did.
> Consecutive fishing increasing shiny chance is cool
Kinda brings down the rarity of shinies but, to each is own.
> You can sit on benches.
Big whoop.

Don't forget XY also had the worst:
Rivals
Gym leaders
E4
Champion
Rematches
Antagonist team
Lore

>>33281948
>calling out people on being subjective

What are you, a total fucking idiot? Good luck writing dumb rants and spouting non-objective shit with your nose glued to a blue board on 4chan. Fuck outta here

>>33281948
>Don't forget XY also had the worst:
>Rivals
>Gym leaders
>E4
>Champion
>Rematches
>Antagonist team
This is the reason I couldn't stomach playing it. The AZ bits and his story were cool though.

No, they're the worst main series games.

>>33281870
This.

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>>33281948
> Hell, Super Mario 64 DS looks better.
You can't be serious. Although I did mean to say 'looked fantastic for the time'. Which is absolutely true.
> There's no point in liking them when they're unfinished. Archeops looking retarded and Salamence gliding there looks awkward.
The VAST majority of the models look fantastic.
> Klefki, Avalugg, Delphox, and Slurpuff exist.
Subjective. I like Klefki, but would add Aromatisse to your list. Still doesn't change my view that it's one of the best dexes ever though. I like more Pokemon from XY than I do in almost every other gen.
> For the chicks it's great. The dudes get the same two types of pants and shirts with different colors.
Blatantly incorrect. By any metric TC in XY was great. Can't hold it being worse since then against it.
> To mask the fact they went with so few designs and had to stuff Gen 1 in there.
You realize they didn't do the same thing in SM even with the same amount of new mons, right? That's not why they did it, and either way it was fucking awesome.
> Big whoop.
Obviously this was a joke. Can't believe you'd actually respond to that seriously.

And I'll give you worst champion, rematches and lore, but I'd debate the rest. Team Flare is shit, but I'd take them over Skull who were completely irrelevant the entire time and had an annoying shtick. The gym leaders were on par with every other gen, and I'd take Serena as a rival over fucking Hau.

>>33275086
it was shit
Black 2 and White 2 were infinitely better and the chibi style was awful, but fixed in SM
zero post game
story had too much focus
>>33282653
not him but Mario 64 DS actually looks fucking great considering the game was on DS and not 3DS
it's a shame Game Freak are terrible at making games that are 3D and now they're working on a HD game it's worrying, but at least they've got experience through Mobile/Arcade shit

>>33281948
>Gym leaders
>Antagonist team
gen 2 had the worst of them also slurpuff is great

>>33282751
> story had too much focus
...do you have a terrible memory or are you trolling? the story of XY was non-existent. lysandre messages you on the holocaster like twice and you fight flare only a few times. the legendaries arent really foreshadowed at all until shortly before you catch them.

gen V and gen VII had WAY more focus on their stories, and that's one of the main reasons they suck so much.

>>33275086
Solid games. Really fun to replay and comfy too.

>>33275086
No. They are the most boring of the 3DS games by far. They're the only Pokemon game I didn't even complete because I just didn't give a fuck about it.

>>33281948
>Worse team
Team Skull and Gen II TR.

>Rivals
Hau was pretty damn bad. DUDE MASLADAS LMAO. Gladion was edgy but not too bad.

Honestly both Gen VI and VII are both forgettable in terms of the story, locations, and the characters.

3D Pokemon was a mistake.

>>33283661
>Team Skull and Gen II TR.
Gen 2 TR maybe but Team Skull is great.

>>33285407
>Great
>Overshadowed completely by Aether
>In the end, just Aether's bitches

>>33285487
And yet they still stole the show in every scene they're in.

Compare to limp dick teams like Galactic, which is just a badly-designed Aqua/Magma, or Plasma, which seemed interesting at first but proved to be a shittier rehash of Rocket.

I enjoyed them immensely, a lot more than SUMO for sure. They weren't the best game in the series, but it was a nice adventure with some unique elements. I had a lot more fun playing Y than I did White, which is fundamentally a better game in concept.

>>33275097
>>33281911
stop forcing the zelda cycle on pokemon

>>33285625
stop denying the fact that nintendo fans are autistic manchildren who can't form their own opinions until its too late

zelda cycle is everywhere

>>33283661
Gen 2 team rocket got the closest to their goals out of any other team and the only time you really stopped them was slowpoke well, they are very underrated

>>33285640
you see one person say they liked XY and scream cycle to explain away people not liking shit games so you can feel less bad about the fanbase hating games you like.

This pokemon cycle shit didnt come about until Gen 6 came out and everyne called it shit. And now it's 3 yars later and most people still call it shit.

>>33285665
they didn't really do anything though

>>33275352
Uhhh, you could get them with the reveal glass...?

>>33285689
yeah they did, they sold slowpoke tale to make money, used it to help create a radio wave to mind control and power up pokemon and it worked, then they took over one of the biggest cities in the pokemon world and announced their return. They pretty much only stopped because Giovanna never came

>>33285680
>This pokemon cycle shit didnt come about until Gen 6 came out and everyne called it shit. And now it's 3 yars later and most people still call it shit.
It's been thrown around way before that actually.

>>33285487
That was the point. Skull is a gang of kids with no purpose and no meaning clinging to anyone that pats them on the head. You think they're supposed to be the "evil team", but that was always Aether. Skull was a red herring from the start.

>>33277390
I like XY way more than SM. Platinum still has the most hours for me by far. And I'm 30 kek kekitty kek kek