Smogon appreciation thread

>>33186030
>Makes every Pokemon useful with the tier system
You underestimate just how bad some Pokemon are.

>>33186038
They try, at least. Weren't they making FU a tier?

>tfw I hate Smogon but most Smogonhaters are so fucking retarded I have to end up siding with Smogon most of the time
Goddammit I don't wanna be a tsundere.

>>33186030
Good post/thread. The reason you see more whining than praising like this is, and this goes for most things, you're more motivated to post a thread complaining about something than talking about its positives.

>posting this thread during OLT

bold_strategy_cotton.png

>>33186030
Yeah it's alright.

I kind of wish there was a gamemode on showdown that was just OU with a flat ban on legendaries. I know many of them are fine but really I'm pretty sick of the "main" tier just being uber-lite nowadays, especially with those Tapu faggots running around now.

Like, it's more common in basically all tiers to see just as many, if not more legendary Pokemon than regular ass Pokemon, and if you try to escape to lower tiers the power creep is so hard NU and RU are filled with them too.

>>33186070
I played about 10 games today and like half of them were stall teams, I won 3 of them but still suffering brain hemorrhaging from the long games I had to go through. So cancerous, they're coming out of the woodwork because of OLT season.

>>33186030
It's not perfect but it gets the job done.
It's not just a way to play comp online without spending hours of mindless breeding/grinding/training, it actually tries to make the experience comfortable for all types of playstyles and pokemons.

Friendly forums LOL. The mods there are a bunch of nazis

>>33186030
My actual only gripe that is Smogon related is people acting as if their tiering system is like the tiering system for Fighting Games. Even worse are the people who think Smogon has it out for their "bro" because it's not on OU.

OMGON BANS SWAGGE

>>33186070
Most of /vp/ is too low on the ladder for OLT to affect them at all.

>>33186030

>Provides and explains you the best sets for every Pokémon in the strategy dex.

It only provides the best sets for a particular metagame. If you want to know every set that's remotely viable on a Pokemon, Serebii's the better choice.

>>33186047

FU was a one month only thing back in Gen 6.

>>33187729
>too low ladder

doesn't matter because you have to make a new account for it so EVERYONE gets to experience the wonder of the grimiest, insanely tryhard shit imaginable as all the 1800+ players swarm into the system at low ELO before working their way up

enjoy your stay

>>33186030

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-612438441

kek

>>33186120

Right now there's drama in the forums over whether to implement forced draws, just because stall vs. stall matchups are so cancerously long. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/endless-stall-clause.3610486/

>>33187789

Oh, and this is the ABR vs. tele match everyone's referencing. It's the longest match in Showdown history. http://jskingboo.github.io/showdown/replays/OU-2016-10-06-abr-idmtubby.html

>>33186030
Smogon only provides strategies compatible with their imaginary ruleset, things like bright powder blissey with double team are banned because some whiny bitch who can't accept defeat lost to someone who is "not skilled enough" to play a game designed for children and only won because of "luck", they ban stuff like swagger and the like, with that being said, I enjoy playing on showdown from time to time, there should be a OU tier without legendaries, I never use them and every fuckiing team has at least one landorus on it, not that I care, I enjoy the feel of defeating an entire legendary/ultra beast/mythical team with regular mons
>>33186120
my average is 20 turns per battle on showdown

>>33187803

>my average is 20 turns per battle on showdown

Most teams on the low ladder are hyper offense :^)

>>33186030
No.

Want to play Pokemon well? Go to Japanese sites. Play Japanese players. They tend to know what they're doing.

>>33187800
Wasn't the Funbro fiasco (you know, the one that brought the endless battle clause to be a thing) longer?

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>>33187879
I don't think the people playing against funbro actually played it out that long, they just recognized it was endless based on the set.

Go to showdown, defeat one pokemon, the other player surrenders, why?
Even when I know I'm totally doomed, I keep playing no matter what, I don't get it, why would someone surrender so easily? you can learn strategies from the opponent, see where you are failing and use that knowledge to further improve your skills and buil a better, more balanced team

>>33188165
If my opponent's Mega Salamence D-Danced and can fuck my entire team by clicking one button, I'm not staying to see his "strategy" of pressing return or earthquake. I can use that time to not be retarded and have a counter for it next time

>>33187747
If the power creep continues at the rate its going, we may actually need an official FU tier.

>unfair hate
>kneejerk ban on baton pass
>landorous-T persisting in OU

nah, fuck them

>>33188165

>taking unrated randbats seriously

consider playing a different metagame

>>33188244
>unfair hate
?
>kneejerk ban on baton pass
t. never played against denisss or any of the espeon stored power teams that came after
>lando T not ubers
guess snorlax should be banned from gen2, right bud
and arcanine should be banned from vgc

right

>>33188365
>guess snorlax should be banned from gen2, right bud
never played gen 2 competitively can't comment

>arcanine should be banned from VGC
don't play doubles. Also VGC's ruleset is even more retarded than Smogon's

>>33188376
>never played gen2 comp

6. 86.11 Snorlax gen2ou

>never played vgc comp

7. 80.23 Arcanine gen7vgc2017

......
......
......

>43. 42.71 Landorus-Therian gen7ou

>>33188401
Smogon bans based off things being over-centralizing, you can bet your ass over 80% usage warrants a ban. Though I'm not sure how their policies differ from today and 17 years ago

>>33188244
Lando isn't even the worst thing, Greninja is way more obnoxious and broken. Both of them, but moreso Ash version, need to be banned. Landorus is just obnoxious and hard to predict because of z-crystal sets. that one with Supersonic Skystrike nad the other with Continental Crush + Rock Polish are killers.

>>33188244
>complaining about landoT when mag "hope you guessed my set right at teamviewer" earna and froge are also in the tier

>>33188435
magearna is a faggot too

>>33186030
It still feels like they're trying to do something that they just don't need to do, making them look bad because they're policing matters in a way that is supposed to "make things fair" in their little world.
Unfortunately, you find that living in their protection just makes you weaker when you try to actually play Pokemon outside of Smogon. Making the person that relies on them heavily, ultimately dependent on them to make everything "fair" which is illogical.
Use the system that Pokemon employs if you want to be better at it, don't make up your own and expect that it will work out.
They already have a better version of LC, Ubers, and all that shit. Smogon just wants to make things special for them.
I just see it as enabling, but no one has to use them for their little special rules.
Trying to play the game their way just sucks the life out of it, I tried to, and I spent so many years trying to unlearn the shit I learned there just so I could learn to play Pokemon with the same wonder and love I used to have.
I have my issues, they are mine alone to deal with, mostly, but you gotta admit that the way they do things does not help them.

>>33188365
They need to stop banning shit.
If something is fucking you up, learn from it, don't ban it out of frustration, that is just an autistic way of trying to erase anything that doesn't fit in your ideal world.
That's why there are tiers in Pokemon, that is also why they seem to move away from Mega Stones, it isn't the only gimmick you can rely on to be better.
If there needs to be changed, I'd recommend that instead of making bans, they should work within the constraints of the game and how to make people actually able to function outside of it.
Learn, adapt, grow, and ultimately become better as a trainer than you were before. Smogon fails at being a training center, it fails at even being a useful Pokemon medium, if they wanted to improve, I would recommend getting rid of all of the bans they emplaced.
Start over, work along the constraints of the medium they are playing with, actually fucking teach people how to deal with shit instead of enabling them to just get rid of what they hate.
The tiers as long as they fit the Pokemon system would work, I'd even recommend they could make their own since tiers can be easily set up for fun, but it also restricts certain ones (which Pokemon does do).
It can be improved, I refuse to say that it is impossible to fix, it just needs dedication and actual admittance that they should revise stuff to better help make people grow.

>>33188597
Know why Japanese are so good at the game and always top Global Link?

Because they don't play a game that coddles people by banning Pokemon outside of the ones that should be banned.

>>33188538
The funniest part is when a smogonite gets outside of his safespace and plays a real battle, they go full meltdown mode, specially when they lose to someone using something banned from smogon.

Why do antismogon shitposters never know AG exists?

>>33186030
>>Makes every Pokémon useful with the tier system.
Whoever keeps repeating this doesn't understand how tiers for competitive play work. In any competitive scene that uses tiers, some options are less viable than others. Even If you want support or gimmicks, some options trump others.

>>33188731
AG is a shitshow of megafug

>>33187800
Start around turn 450 if you realize want to lose your fucking sanity.

>>33188746
but that's exactly what they want.

>>33188755
No, we want pre-gen 5 smogon where they actually used their brains

>>33188755
Name a battle season that is singles and uses mega rayquaza.

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>>33188663
Yeah, they actually learn the best ways to go about solving a problem and actually get better from the experience.
Hell, we even get interesting rare gems like the Pachirisu and Garchomp tag-team that won the tournament in 2014.
Things that we didn't expect could go so well, but they end up doing it, not because someone made it easier for them, the person who did it loved Pachirisu and made that little devil succeed in a place that didn't seem possible.

>>33188706
Yeah, it makes me feel rather sad though, because they just grab people, fuck them up and think they're helping matters.
Depressing that it exists, that it doesn't seem to rectify its own flaws, and that it just thinks nothing of it.

The way I see it, Smogon is such a miraculous case. Like, how did some random group of people create a system and tier list for competitive Pokemon play that just got accepted by a large amount of people? It just kinda happened, you know? And I think that's pretty cool.

I think the big reason why people give Smogon flack is because there is literally no other thing like Smogon, and thus there is nothing else to blame. Like, there really is NOTHING like Smogon at all; the whole thing just kinda solidified as itself and no one else bothered, you know? I dunno; the whole thing just seems real fascinating to me. It's like...just something that happened to catch on and stay held on to to this day and probably forever. It's kinda weird.

>>33188761
The antismogonfags in this thread don't want any bans at all.

>>33188815
pretty sure no one wants that, everyone knows how retarded ruleless pokemon is

>>33188783
>the person who did it loved Pachirisu

People still believe this?

>>33188825
see
>>33188597

>>33188813
>the big reason why people give Smogon flack is because there is literally no other thing like Smogon
Nah, I think smogonfags started being elitist as fuck as their followers grew, which caused people not to dislike them. Then they lost to other countries in VGCs and calmed down.

>>33188597
Your post relies on the assumption that Pokemon PVP is a good game on its own. I'd like to know why you believe this.

>>33188842
>Stop banning shit suddenly means ban nothing.
>Not banning everything I hate means that there are no rules

Actually imagine being this retarded

>>33188734
The tier system isn't to explain which Pokemon are good or bad, it is to seperate Pokemon into groups that can healthily compete with each other. Pokemon like Komala are completely outclassed in OU, but in NU, RU, and possibly UU there's a large niche for it.

TLDR: Tiers let the Flygons battle in a world without Garchomp and Zygarde.

>>33188783
He didn't love Pachirisu. He wanted a Rage Powder/Follow Me Pokemon from the Kalos dex that wasn't Amoongus because people were prepared for Amoongus. It was the next best thing, made better by people not being prepared.

>>33188864
>I would recommend getting rid of all of the bans they emplaced.
>Start over, work along the constraints of the medium
He literally said "unban everything and just adapt lol"

I'm not doubting smogon's ability to tier strong Pokémon from weak ones, but rules banning things like baton pass or sleep/evasion clauses really irk me. They're in the game, yes it's difficult to understand, but they're strategies that haven't been removed from the game and they wouldn't put it in the game if there weren't counters, if there weren't, it would just be nerfed. I don't personally care if I use evasion or not but for fuck's sake don't quit just because I used hypnosis twice in a row and it worked because you switched out, sniveling faggots like smogonites scream out 'm-muh sleep clause' and boo at pretty much anything they don't know how to beat. Play smart and be prepared, don't whine and bitch mechanics you've been playing with all these years and had all this time to learn is unfair.

>>33188864
False dilemma, either accept that the system is perfect, or that you will only be left with anarchy.
It allows no choice or option to the notion that there can be room to change, revise, or erase them to better make it conform to the general PvP system.
Just a way of not using one's brain to come up with an actual logical rebuttal.

>>33188854
I won't say that it is, but Smogon isn't helping their people by sheltering them.
If you say that you're teaching people to be better Pokemon competitors, you should be using the rules that the system uses as a way of best teaching them.
Otherwise, they are not worthy of their banner, they might as well make their own game that conforms to their own system and just say "fuck it" to Pokemon.

>>33188908
I said, unban the shit they banned (things like Swagger, Baton Pass, and all that shit they deemed as to OP), and revise their rules to better conform to the Pokemon meta.
If it is still banned in the meta, it should still be banned in Smogon, but if it isn't... then they can't say shit about it.
Moves shouldn't be banned unless they glitch and harm the game, certain Pokemon shouldn't be banned, they have cups and tiers just to help set that shit up.

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>>33188931
Smogon OU is their own game and they make no bones about it.

>>33188917
Oh, you're asleep? Use early bird pokemon, use insomnia pokemon, use snore/sleep talk moves, oh, poison you say? use steel types, use another poison mon, use heal bell, refresh or any other poison removal move, burnt you say? use a special attack, heal it with refresh, use a fire pokemon, paralyzed? who cares, heal bell/refresh, use a ground pokemon, priority moves, this are just some of many ways designed to deal with such situations

>>33188965
>chess is failed game design

Huh, the more you know.

>>33189037
Pardon me, when was chess mentioned on said post? after carrying an extensive research, I couldn't find it no matter what

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>>33188917
I dislike Smogon for the same reasons you do, but you do know that even Nintendo used the sleep clause in their Gen 1 competitions, right?

>>33189013
Exactly. There are so many work arounds and although it's annoying to fight an all stall team or ones that baton pass stats or use evasion 'hax', no ones heard of whirlwind or haze apparently.

>>33189136
>implying gen 1's sleep mechanics are even close to how balanced they are now
Remember "Pokémon woke up!" was your full turn, so yes gen 1 I understand the clause.

>>33189142
And they're not even all, there is natural cure, shed skin, and many other abilities & moves that prevent/revert status changes, there are berries that can cure certain conditions, but that would be so wrong because they would break their meta strategies that only work on a fictional world with withered status conditions so there's not need to break your meme strategy by replacing your assault vest with a one-time-use berry, that's not a healthy meta, it's a fictional safeplace/hugbox, Smogon is the pokemon equivalent of Tumblr

>>33189142

wow dude congratulations, YOU'RE RIGHT

all these really good pokemon players who have been playing competitively for decades just NEVER THOUGHT to use those two moves you suggested. WOWEE someone better tell them about this game-changing new strat that NO ONE has ever in their entire life thought to use. literally zero smogon players even knew hazing and phazing were a thing until THIS VERY SECOND when you poofed this magical silver bullet idea into existence and absolutely obliterated stall and baton pass out of this plane of existence.

FINALLY. we've been waiting for our savior, and YOU ARE IT. thank you, my guy, for gracing this world with your infinite wisdom and competitive know-how.

where would we be

without you?
just fucking end your pathetic excuse for a life, dude. you are so unbelievably retarded that i am dumbstruck that someone like you even continues to survive on a daily basis.

how do you fucking breathe air?
how do you eat?
how do you drink water?

unreal

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>>33189357

autism

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>>33189357
You ok there buddy?
You should try out skarmory, he's pretty bulky, has lots of traps, an immunity to ground and poison with two weaknesses and access to whirlwind! Good luck out there my man!

>>33187800
What did life do to ABR for him to hate it so much?

>>33188783
It's funny how people forget that it was his Mega Gyarados that put in most of the work.

>>33186038
Dunsparce got banned from Gen 3 PU. That said, some things like Luvdisc and Ledian really are universally shit like you said.

>>33188917
I was writing a long reply but I lost it and can't be bothered to type it again. Long story short is that just becausr something is in the game it doesn't mean it is automatically balanced. The devs are human being, and thus inherently fallible. They themselves admitted they didn't imagine Mega Kangaskhan would be so strong.
Moreover, Smogon plays 6vs6 singles, while Game Freak balances their game around 4vs4 doubles. Something can easily be balanced in one metagame and be so broken it makes it unplayable in the other. In fact, I can bring up numerous examples like Blaziken, Mega Lucario and Baton Pass chains.

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>>33186030
>Tiers are constantly updated and kept balanced

>>33188783
(You)

>>33190968
I've never really understood this

The metagame is balanced for 4v4 doubles, yet the entire single player game consists of singles battles. Why?

What's the purpose of your single player game if you aren't teaching people how to play it right? Either balance for singles, or fill the single player campaign with more double battles

>>33189037
It is though. Chess is pretty shit. Usually the whole game is determined in the first 10 turns and the other 60 are just cleaning things up.

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smogon ou council member here, what do you want to be done for the meta /vp/ ? let it out bro

>>33192204
I want the actual overcentralizing mons banned

>>33192213
what do you have in mind, and how would said pkmn's ban improve/make the meta more healthy?

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>>33192213
i can also tell you a suspect is in the work right now and should happen soon, though said pokemon isn't in the tippity top of usage statistics

>>33188365
Correct me if I'm wrong but would banning baton pass in tandem with magic bounce have done the trick? Destroying the viability of baton pass teams seems like overkill.

By today's standards the Gen 2 lax/skarm/bliss trio are uber as fuck

>>33192235
Meant to also reply to>>33188401 for the second comment.

>>33188829
>>33188899
>>33189565
>>33191120
God why are you smogonfags so fucking retarded.

>>33187800
Wouldn't a battle like this be physically impossible to replicate on cart due to the forced 1 hour time limit?

>>33192330
That's funny considering how strict they used to be about the sim being a faithful replica of the cart. Guess that rule went straight to the bin when newfags took over, just like "no complex bans".

>>33192204
I don't believe you, but I want a suspect test for Ash-Greninja.

>>33192273
Not an argument. Post a source that indicates he used Pachirisu because he liked it or your post means nothing.

>>33192437
Not an argument. Post a source that indicates he didn't liked it or your post means nothing.

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>>33192330
>>33192381
It looks like there's sentiment in favor of it but this post sapped the thread of its momentum.

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>>33192273
>gets btfo
>"n-no, you're dumb!"
W E W
E
W

>>33188365
Fuck you

>>33192497
?

>>33192497
No, fuck you leatherman. Maybe you and I should settle it on Battle Spot if you think you're so tough?

>>33192447
>Make a claim
>Someone asks you to back up said claim
>"Nuh-Uh, you back up YOUR claim"

Burden of proof is a legitimate concept, and 4chan is an 18+ imageboard

>>33192419
not happening soon, sorry
>>33192452
magearna is likely going to be suspected, i don't know when, but it's probably next on the chopping block after the one that will happen very soon
>>33192480
it's actually gonna be arena trap and not dug. like i just said, magearna is probably next, unless the hivemind changes based on what the metagame will be like with stall getting nerfed (in the event of arena trap getting banned, which isnt guaranteed)

to go back on >>33192452 we just don't wanna take hasty decisions and prefer for the metagame to settle and adapt; we do not wanna make suspects based on ongoing trends

>>33192523
>Burden of proof clause, check mate atheist, you can't tell me to prove my statement if u haven't proven yours yet, why won't you follow my imaginary set of rules?
t. smogonite

>>33192528
can you explain why the OU council lacked the foresight to make the suspect test about Arena Trap the first time around when it ended up just being a waste of time suspecting Dugtrio AND YOU GUYS HAD ALREADY BANNED SHADOW TAG IN A PREVIOUS GENERATION?

Additionally, why was Arena Trap not immediately suspected after the Dugtrio suspect test was over considering how people just turned around and started using Trapinch and Diglett DURING THE FUCKING SUSPECT TEST LADDER?

How can one group of people possibly be so incompetent? Why should we continue to believe you guys actually know what you're doing and have the good of the metagame at heart when you let shit like this happen?

>>33192464
Well put. The current situation reminds me of morons who cried about the forced Team Preview during the transition to gen 5 because muh lead meta and muh Zoroark. There were even Team Preview-less ladders on PO because some faggots just wouldn't let it go. IMHO they should implement the 1 hour limit right away, the retards will eventually stop crying and move on with their lives.

>>33192204
I'd like to hear council plans and your individual thoughts about the following mons: Landorus-Therian, Zygarde-50% and Greninja(regular). Not necessarily saying they're broken, just want to know if they are on the radar in any way.

>>33192555
arena trap = dugtrio, this is a mere technicality buddy
if dugtrio didn't get the boot, why should arena trap be suspected right afterwards? it'd be like suspecting dugtrio twice, and since the community voted to keep it in the metagame, it makes no sense to suspect it again so soon afterwards

if anything, the fact that stall was playing the same way with a different arena trappers, but still didn't get banned back then, backs up my first statement

>>33192578
i'm more "in the known" than an actual member, keep that in mind, as i don't have too much weight on what will happen next; that being said:

these 3 pkmns are all acknowledged as very strong and metagame defining, but i don't think any of them are going to be suspected any time soon (by the time that would happen, USM will be out, which means the metagame will be very different anyway)
i personally think greninja is insane and the best out of the 3; i think lando-t is healthy and brings a lot of offensive counterplays to the meta, zygarde is overrated but still good, cb was very strong until recently, now boosting sets are coming back, and i expect the meta to adapt accordingly

i'll be back later if the thread is still up and there is interest

>>33192600
shut the fuck up you larping piece of shit. the fact that you're think arena trap and dugtrio are interchangeable after I JUST reminded you about how Diglett and trapinch were seeing almost as much usage on the suspect test ladder proves you have no clue what you're talking about AT ALL.

>if dugtrio didn't get the boot, why should arena trap be suspected right afterwards

BECAUSE PEOPLE RECOGNIZED THAT THE ONE POKEMON WAS NOT THE PROBLEM, THE ABILITY WAS, AND VOTED AGAINST BANNING THE POKEMON BECAUSE WE'D JUST DO THIS OVER AND OVER WITH TRAPINCH AND DIGLETT

Don't bother coming back later, you're just trying to see how many retards you can lead on. Fuck off, faggot, and tell your butt buddies on the council to start acting like they're even halfway intelligent.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7battlespotdoubles-612678381

incineroar tanked rock Z movie on ramphardos kek, and salty btfo

>>33192744

move* I always mistype them

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>>33192744
>1000 elo

>>33192787

fuck off, I have life

>>33192570
The problem is that cartridge has animation time which eats into the 1 hour limit, but showdown doesn't.

>>33192821
what does your word matter then

>>33192744

technically, with

252 hp
135 atk
0def
124sp. def +nature

and one bulk up we are getting viable mon - speed

it's 450 of the attack
and 324 of the def

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>>33186030
Consider the following counterpoints >>33192892 and suicide.

>>33192912

248* hp sorry, changed it to make sp. def better

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>>33192787
>Caring about an imaginary rank on a meme website designed for poorfags who can't buy the real games

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>>33192983
GAYS GET OUT

>>33192983
Nobody cares about your homosexuality, stop bringing your life here, this isn't your personal blog, if you truly had a boyfriend you wouldn't be starving for attention, you shameless attentionwhore

>>33192997
Oh hey it's the frogposter from a time back.

Smogon's biggest problem is their inexplicable hatred of "complex bans". Why did they ban BP instead of just stopping you from passing stats? Plenty of bulky support mons without access to U-turn or Volt Switch relied on slow BP, which had nothing to do with the speed boost protect BP into sweeper cancer that got BP banned and they got screwed over because Smogonfags have an irrational fear of bans that involve more than "this move/pokemon is not allowed".

>>33192687
Trapinch/Diglett did not work near as well as Dugtrio. That being taken into account alongside other reasons makes me sure people didnt vote to keep Dugtrio in the reason for the reason you're mentionning.

That being said, I hope you will appreciate the way future suspects are handled.

I'm not leading you on one bit, Im just here to let vp know how the future of OU suspects will look like as well as gathering opinions regarding the current meta and its future. For example, what should be suspected in you opinion?

>>33186030
Sleep clause was a mistake.

>>33188663
Japanese are kinda weaker than western player though. Also they top bss becquse none in the west play that shit.

>>33186030
>>Friendly and well organized forums, with proper discussions within their members about every meta.

Not quite sure about that.

>>33193374
Baton Pass is literally the proof that complex bans don't work. They made what, four different clauses to restrict it? and every single time there was some nigger who came up with a ladder breaking cookie cutter team. If you don't blanket ban Baton Pass your other options are to ban it in combination to every single move, ability and item that can boost stats, and I mean every single one without exception; if you leave something slipping through the cracks there WILL be a faggot who will exploit it in a cancerous way. Just banning Baton Pass is a lot easier for the policymakers and simple for the players. Or you can block it at a battle level, like the Sleep and Mega Rayquaza clauses, but these are kinda more extreme cases with bigger collateral damage if they were a simple ban instead(ban every sleep move and ban Dragon Ascent was the alternative). Banning Baton Pass really only hurts Pyukumuku and Shedinja, nothing else actually ran drypass.

>>33193785
It varies heavily from metagame to metagame

OU is the absolute worst, of course, the politicking is ridiculous.

>>33193632
you're an idiot

>>33193839
I made my previous statement having never touched or looked at Ubers because it has never held any interest to me, so you might be right

Any examples of UUbers being awful?

>>33193785
>Also ghosting and rigging are nearly standard practices in tournaments. Getting "caught" is just a matter of clique politicking and nothing else.
That's because despite trying to look super serious and professional, top Smogon play is just the same 20 dudes who've been playing pokemon together on the internet for 10 years playing grudge matches.

GODDAMN am I fucking tired of smogonfags praising their SHIT website and SHIT fanfiction and SHIT playstyle and SHIT intelligence. Smogonfags are ANNOYING and STUPID. It's all you hear about on competitive threads. It's nothing but smogonfags circlejerking and sucking each other's diseased dicks and attacking EVERYONE who has even the slightest criticism of Smogon.

>>33193917
hi bloo

Are we just going to ignore that Smogon is a pedo ring?

>>33193917
The problem was never the ghosting you tard, it was people sharing their teams with bloo because their opponent was supposed to be some literally who newcomer only to get counter teamed perfectly every time. But I guess since there are no CIA certified wire taps of bloo planning his perfect crime there's no cause for suspicion at all.

>>33193855
I tried ubers with my meme team for the lulz and won, wouldn't use it again, I don't judge people who use them, but I have a zero-legendaries policy
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-612747236

>>33193917
>especially since the people accusing her of cheating were hypocrites who were doing the exact same thing
nigger who cares about ghosting? like holy shit having 3 dudes in call telling you to stay in and then laughing and calling you a faggot when you get donked is gonna win you every fucking game right? ghosting is """discouraged"""" because you're not supposed to bring a fucking war council to every tournament game but no one actually cares if you're in call with your friends during a match. what advantage does it actually give you?

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>>33193892
just play anything goes or vgc on your cart then you dumb faggot. they just make brackets so shitmon can compete against other shitmon instead of everyone running the same landorus cancer teams every fucking match

>>33194052
So they make tiers so babies with shitmons won't have to face the hard facts that their shitmons are shitmons. That's completely and utterly pathetic, and shows what a pathetic load of losers Smogon are. Seriously, I can't think of anything more pathetic than such snowflake baby stuff.

>>33194052
Landorus + UB team is truly cancerous, I'd rather have shitmons everyday

>>33193973
That... hurt to watch

>>33194085
Excuse me? Are you implying that CC Xern is not the absolute wave and the future?

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>>33186030
>pedophile mods
>racist members
>power hungry staff
>dishonest tiering and suspect tests

>>33194072
I don't think anyone who plays NU thinks their pokemon aren't trash

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>>33194072
>waaaahh why do people pull the plug on me when I bring nothing but uber legendaries
Suck shit and die

>>33194097
That was stupid, but switching groudon into a special-oriented pokemon like Mismagius and using a special move against it was fucking retarded

>>33194072
they make the tiers to spice things up. there are like 800 of these things now, do you seriously want to just see the same 10 every match? fuck off with your snowflake logic, dipshit

>>33194100
>waaaah why do people play to win and completely destroy my precious ledian
Grow up and git gud

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>>33194115
>git gud
>he says while mega evolving his mega Rayquaza

>>33194121
>SJW dogpiling
ugh... *big sigh*

>>33194121
>a new person comes along
LOL

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>>33194147
>>33194121
Those mean sjw are at it again

>>33194072
I'm not a smogonfag, but tiers exists to provide variety, if you like to use legendaries, go uber, if you don't like the all-powerful legends, use OU with just a few select legendaries who are not that powerful, if you don't like bans, use Anything Goes, as I said, I'm not a smogonfag, but it provides an alternative to the usual gameplay and no one is forced to use it, the concept of pokemon showdown itself is bretty gud, the rotten, toxic community is what ruins it for everyone, from biased mods to whiny bitches demanding everything suspect tested, they are detrimental to the experience overall, this is as fair as I can judge smogon for trying, this is a case of a good concept ruined by a terrible execution, 8/10 too much Landorus
- - IGN - -

>>33194189
Yeah, they're onto us once again storm/b/ros! Smogonites are all politically correct SJWs like that snowflake cuck ctc haha :)

>>33194121
You sound like a humongous faggot

>>33194234
>>>/pol/

>>33188886
This. See them as weight classes in boxing. Put some poor featherweight bastard up against a heavyweight. It won't end well

>>33194274
Oh look, it's Smogon trying to desperately cover the facts that they're a pedo ring.

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>mfw the timer is horribly glitched
>the state of Pokemon Showdown right now

>>33194349
>what are bugs and server maintenance

>>33194249
>>33194234
>>>/x/

>>33193785
What's ghosting? not showing up?

>>33195153
Helping a player by telling him what to do. So basically instead of you playing by yourself and making every decision by yourself, you can have a couple of friends on discord helping you out. They don't have any special info or anything, but two (or more) heads think better than one I guess.

>>33188917
You're implying that Gamefreak knows how to balance mons and has thus left these cancerous things in the game to be abused when that's not the case.

>>33192600
>if dugtrio didn't get the boot, why should arena trap be suspected right afterwards? it'd be like suspecting dugtrio twice, and since the community voted to keep it in the metagame, it makes no sense to suspect it again so soon afterwards

Do you even remember the ORAS Ubers M-Gengar/Shadow Tag debacle? You remember, the one where a ranked user tried to cheat by manipulating the vote count, and then right after the no-ban vote came in for M-Gengar you guys launched a full-on Shadow Tag suspect? Jesus.

>>33195306
what the fuck lmao that's not what ghosting is jesus christ. that's like coaching or some shit

>>33195153
it's when you have someone else watching a match or stream and they tell you waht the other guy has. idk if smogon's spectator function actually allows this but based on the people who got accused, I'm assuming that higher ups can see more when they're speccing, and so they might have been able to see what move is clicked, what the stats (and, via reverse engineering, what the EV spread is) of a mon are, etc.

>>33195556
no the other guy was right.

>>33189013
Most Early Bird/Isomnia Pokemon are objective garbage though. Teambuilding isn't as easy as you think it is

I wonder how many people saying "Just adapt lol" in response to blatantly broken shit actually play the game instead of bitching, or if any of them realize that a lot of the time, the problem isn't that there's no strategies that can beat said thing, but that the ways to beat it are horribly niche and actively make your team worse/can still be beaten by the thing it's supposed to counter

>>33186030
Smogon has ALWAYS been shit.
Literally.
No one uses it except for scrubs.

Real VGC World winners, not low-level pieces of shit who suck cock for an entry..

But actual WORLD CHAMPIONS have never used it or laugh at Smogon and Showdown's existence. They don't even like Nugget Bridge.

So you can take this piece of shit thread and your piece of shit circlejerk website and get the fuck off the internet.

Which btw: Cease & Desist coming to a local Smognite near YOU, bitch!

>>33189438
>What is Magic Bounce

>>33195654
>VGC
>A good meta

AG is the only true meta. Both Smogon and VGC are shit

>>33186030
>Nearly half of all fully evolved mons are in PU
The tiers are in place so that all fully-evolved mons can be viable in some way or another, but half of the evolved dex is completely shoved into the bottom tier, and I'd wager that the good majority of that 200something mons down there aren't even viable within that tier. Honestly, they should probably stand to make a few more tiers underneath PU. FU and maybe one other below that, for starters.

There's no reason for those tier names anymore, either; they're outdated and should probably be replaced with something else. When the tier called "Neverused" is actually the halfway point of viability for all fully-evolved mons, you know there's a problem.

>>33195841
They're already running out of names. PU and FU don't stand for anything anymore, they're just dumb jokes. Honestly they could afford to do the same sort of naming they use for the viability ranks, so something like

Uber: S+
OU: S
UU: A
RU: B
NU: C
PU: D
FU: E
Some other potential tier below that: F

>>33187803
All that's fine and I dislike Smogon a lot of the time too, except evasion and Swagger are legitimately nigger-tier strategies that take absolutely no skill to use. Objectively.

>>33195868
To pick nits: I like the general concept, but I'd probably tweak it to
Uber>S
OU>A
UU>B
RU>C
NU>D
Everything else>E

>>33195654
Ray Rizzo is right here.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/members/bluecookies.12367/

>>33195556
Fucking retard

Bump because Smogon is amazing, needs even more love.

>>33193734
>Japanese are kinda weaker than western player though.

Source?

>Also they top bss becquse none in the west play that shit.
t. Smogonfag

>>33195654
That's why Wolfe Glick is taking lessons in OU battling at the moment, right?

>>33191818
This. A chess game can be decided as early as 2-3 turns in sometimes. Play Go. It's a muh better and strategic game.

>>33193791
Or, you know. Slow bulky Wishmons who use BP to pass Wish to a teammate while taking a hit. The point is that your slow bulky mon gets to move last so it can protect your incoming mon from damage.

>>33198800
>Wishpassers
Such as? Eeveelutions which are all trash in OU and even UU? As a policymakers it's a bit hardpressing to write a big ass clause just to preserve a single Umbreon set in RU.

>>33198765
>doing a video with the biggest """"competitive"""" youtuber for views
>taking lessons in OU battling
Go to bed poey jokeaim

>>33188917

Game Freak does not give one single fuck about 6 vs 6 singles.

>>33198909
Tangrowth was an RU shitmon for the longest time.

BP Vaporeon could have become the hottest support mon in OU for some reason, but now we'll never know because they blanket banned BP instead of just passing stats or whatever,

>>33186269

>My actual only gripe that is Smogon related is people acting as if their tiering system is like the tiering system for Fighting Games.

It's not, but their viability rankings are exactly like the tiering system of fighting games.

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>>33193791

>Baton Pass is literally the proof that complex bans don't work. They made what, four different clauses to restrict it? and every single time there was some nigger who came up with a ladder breaking cookie cutter team. I

Because the problem with Baton Pass wasn't the move itself. It was the combination of BP and Speed Boost, whether the Speed Boost user was a passer (Scolipede) or recipient (Mega Sharpedo). There's a reason why Accupressure is not banned while Moody isn't, and why Drizzle + Swift Swim was banned in Gen 5 instead of Rain Dance + Swift Swim.

Smogon should have taken responsibility for their ineffective nerfs instead of blaming the move.

People miss the point of their bans. You can counter anything in Pokemon, even Mega Fug, with the right Pokemon and moves. But if your team has shit like Scarf Blizzard Golduck or Focus Sash Klefki solely to beat it, it's going to lose to any decent team that lacks it.

If Zarel got drunk and accidentally marked Mega Rayquaza as OU, a Rock Paper Scissors meta would develop where anti-Rayquaza teams beat Rayquaza teams, which beat everything else, which beat anti-Rayquaza teams. And this meta may be balanced, but it wouldn't be fun. The winner and loser would almost always be decided in Team Preview. Your grandma could beat a top player in this scenario, and it's not because she's low key into competitive Pokemon. This overly matchup-based gameplay is what Smogon is trying to prevent.

>>33199290
On the other hand, not every ban is as obvious as mega ray, and even the suspect test system doesn't ensure that dumb bans don't happen. If the (((council))) had decided to suspect lele a few months ago it'd probably be the hottest bench warmer in ubers right now, instead of the second worst tapu in ou.

>>33186030
>Fanfiction rules for people who don't actually play the games
No they deserve the hate.

>>33199354
>Fanfiction
>don't actually play the games
What did he mean by this?

>>33199360
Smogon rules are only enforced on showdown
You can only 100% follow smogons meta by turning off your 3DS and game cartridge and booting up a fanfiction battle simulator on your PC.

Now I have issues with emulating Pokémon as well, it just sort of feels like shit personally, so yes, I'm a little more autistic than most about this.

Doesn't change the fact most of smogon don't fucking play the games because they're too busy doing the stroppy child thing of making up their own rules and then running away and starting their new game because everyone playing was following their own rules.

>>33199369
>You can only 100% follow smogons meta by turning off your 3DS and game cartridge and booting up a fanfiction battle simulator on your PC.
Huh. Are you drunk this early in the morning?

>>33199381
Why would we be in the same time zone?
Probably.
Why? There is no way to use only smogon-legal teams and rules against smogon-legal teams and rules on the cartridge without setting it up with someone before hand in person or online

>>33199393
>without setting it up with someone before hand in person or online
Good job champ, you cracked it!

>>33199467
You're the one asking questions anon, what do you mean I cracked it?

It has about as much value as noscope or knife only lobbies in FPS games used to. Eg, fucking none.

Except it's even worse because most of the people who want to play in said lobby instead of going out their way to set up one, simply turn the game off and go on a website where they pretend to play it via sim. Which has the worth of RPing the idea of playing a private game in the first place.

>>33186047
>FU
what, even worse than PU?
what would even FU
anything goes->ubers->overused->underused->never used->poop/probably used->fucking shit/fucking unused?

>>33199490
PU and FU don't stand for anything, they're joke names because Smogon used up all the reasonable ones back when they made their tier system for 400 pokemon. Now there's 800 mons and the original tiers still only contain around 400 because that's how usage based tiers work, so the other 400 are stuck in the "extra" tier that is PU.

>>33186030
Smogon is cancer and you're a faggot

>>33199490
This has to be the easiest way to spot an autist. They don't fucking mean anything you sperg, they are JOKE names, exclusely for dogshit Pokemon.

>>33199483
>Which has the worth of RPing the idea of playing a private game in the first place.>>
Go to bed, ESL-kun.

>>33199798
Anon you're not even making sense if you're trying to insult me. Nothing you've said has countered my point or made me sound silly.
Are you implying that if you want to actually play a game you own rather than RP about it with calculators and made up rules you're an Esports shill?

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>>33189357
>t. autistic lando user who try hards his rocks on turn 1
Horrible shit post btw

>>33199808
>RP about it
>Esports shill
It's impossible to hold a conversation with someone who makes no fucking sense.

>>33199821
You aren't explaining why in any way or discussing anything. What do you find so reprehensible about referring to the act of turning off a console, going over to a calculator and pretending to play the game you just turned off "RP"?

Also I asked if YOU were calling ME an eports shill with "ESL-kun", you say I make no sense but in your examples you use a reference to something you said.

>>33192528
You're a fucking dumbass

>>33199835
>What do you find so reprehensible about referring to the act of turning off a console, going over to a calculator and pretending to play the game you just turned off "RP"?
What do you mean by "pretending to play the game", you autistic fuck? It's just a matter of convenience, using an online simulator allows you to play faster, it has an in-built ladder system with multiple tiers, more convenient team building than fucking pkhex, but it's still the exact same game. You can enforce sleep clause in wi-fi battles if you want to, and you can play AG on showdown if you want to. Where are the fucking fundamental differences that are triggering your autism so hard? No animations? An actually fucntional online match making system? The game is the fucking same. How the fuck is playing pokemon online "roleplaying"? Is correspondence chess just roleplaying because you're not traveling to your opponent's location and physically playing on a chess board? Neck yourself.

>Also I asked if YOU were calling ME an eports shill with "ESL-kun"
I called you ESL-kun because of your incapability to write a coherent sentence in English

>>33192600
You sound like such a massive faggot. What a boring and uneventful life you must live

>>33189357
Why are all smogonfags like you so fucking cancerous?

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>/vp/ still believes that Smogon is evil
How typical

>>33199502
>>33199738
Not him but those names are fucking dumb.

>>33199965
Who cares, the names don't matter. I guess the problem is that they didn't plan for more than 4 tiers, so they went with names that don't really allow for extra tiers. Can you think of a tier below "never used", or between "rarely used" and "never used"? Maybe "hardly ever used" but that's just awkward.

Anyway, the names don't matter at all unless you're autistic enough to complain that never used isn't the bottom tier or that PU doesn't follow the naming standards of the other tiers.

>>33199936
Why is it so surprising that /vp/ believes that when Smogon has done nothing but evil? And let's not forget that they're a pedophile ring.

>>33199991
>"hardly ever used"
HEUHEUHEUHEUHEUHEUHEU

>>33186030
>Balanced
Stop lying op we know the mods like thirty favorites in the tier and give them special treatment I.E mega audino not being RU and the owl not being RU this gen

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>>33199858
>What do you mean by "pretending to play the game", you autistic fuck
Pretty aggressive for someone who can't figure out what "Not playing the video game you purchased from a video game company" means.

You GENUINELY can't understand the difference between playing a game and PLAYING A SIMULATION of a portion of those games online?

And you're calling me autistic?

>>33186030
DID YOU KNOW THAT MOST OF SMOGON OFFICIALS ARE PEDOPHILES AND GET WOMEN 12 - 16 TO FLASH THEIR TITS AND PUSSY FOR MODERATORSHIP? THEY EVEN MET AT WORLDS, PAYING THE GIRLS WAY OUT AND HAD THEIR OWN CP PARTY.

;) THEY'RE UNDER INVESTIGATION RIGHT NOW, THE ENTIRE STAFF, AND THE SITE BOTH ON SHOWDOWN AND ON SMOGON IS CURRENTLY UNDERGOING A POSSIBLE SHUT DOWN. IT ALL HINGES ON THEIR COURT DATE THAT MOST WERE BAILED OUT FOR.

AND OTHERS ARE UNDER HEAVY SUSPICION.

YEAH.

THEY'RE ALL PEDOS.

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>>33189280
>opponent paralyzes you
>heal with a berry
>opponent paralyzes you again

>>33199220
The end result of passing an Agility isn't much different than that of passing Speed Boosts. I guarantee you there would have been BP teams using Mew instead of Scolipede without losing much effectiveness. In fact I think some already started to do it in order to prove Scolipede wasn't the only problem.

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>>33186078
>flat ban on legendaries
I'm sick of this fucking meme, this idea is literally fucking retarded

>>33186030
Is the smogon meta to turtle still?

>>33200553
t. landorusbabby

>>33200478
>The end result of passing an Agility isn't much different than that of passing Speed Boosts.
The end result is obviously the same, but setting up an agility is much harder than clicking protect.

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>>33200614
>hey guys There is this strategy that is pretty busted but we've complex banned it so far but it's still overbearing and too good so let's just ban the whole thing

Starting to sound a lot like the smogon you claim to hate

>/vp/ getting disgusted over pedos
Go back to Myspace, faggots.

>>33199816
>>33199890

why do retards like you think your opinion is worth a single iota? Don't bother replying to me anymore because it'd be a waste of both of our time.

>>33200777
>he says while defending an oppressive totalitarian pokemon community that runs a fanfic meta where they decide which OP pokemon gets stay and which OP pokemon gets banned because they play favorites

>>33199181
Or most likely it would have continued to be a shitmon. Again, for a complex ban you have two alternatives if you do a ban at a teambuilder level you must ban every combination of Baton Pass with any boosting move, if only because for PR you can't afford a FIFTH fiasco regarding this clause, or you can implement an in battle clause which is a very ugly solution because it requires to alter the game mechanics.
Put yourself in the shoes of an OU Council member; blanket banning Baton Pass is easier, safer and simpler for everyone involved. Hypothetical Vaporeon innovation isn't a reason to do things the hard way.

>>33200801

1 Arcanine 74.82
2 Tapu Koko 46.33
3 Kartana 39.73
4 Porygon2 38.70
5 Garchomp 35.82
6 Tapu Fini 34.14
7 Tapu Lele 32.86
8 Celesteela 26.76
9 Gigalith 25.56
10 Snorlax 20.62


gee, VGC sure looks like a fun meta that lets me use all kinds of cool Pokemon and doesn't have anything like landorus, who's in Smogon OU every game. Thank goodness they banned legendaries so I don't have to worry about seeing landorus in 40% of my games, haha lol :)

why would I ever want to play in a system that is based around objective usage data so that my favorite Pokemon all have their own niches and aren't overwhelmed by other more powerful Pokemon because that would just be THE WORST right guys haha xD

>>33199936
/vp/'s trash at Pokemon, it's no wonder why.
/vp/ thought Zygarde 100% was too gimmicky to be viable, and then when it got quicked banned in 4 dyas, they said it would be useless because of Xerneas. /vp/ also believed Lunala would be the Gen 5 Ambipom of Gen 7 OU because of it's typing. Lets not forget they can't even fathom why Blaziken is banned in the first place.

I quite like smogon, I think they do a good job regardless of autistic mods, however I pretty much avoid it because I just fucking hate playing against stall teams. If anyone has a team that can counter the standard stall one, please share

It really says a lot about Smogon when less than 1% of /vp/ is willing to defend them against criticism. Shows what a terrible bunch of people they are.

>>33201650

i think that says more about /vp/ than it does smogon, that people fall for verlisify-tier retarded bogeymen arguments about "muh tiers"

>>33195909
Not a huge fan of that, because PU is so bloated they'll definitely have to make an official tier below it within the next couple years.

>>33200013
This should be a tier.
Far more clever than PU.

>>33188706
literally no-one does this you turbo autist. a lot of smogon players I know actually play non-smogon metagames, and take full advantage of the new mons and strategies available to them

>>33189357
this guy is the one person with some sense in this thread and everyone else is bashing to him. truly incredible

>>33202297
>Samefagging this hard

>>33202297
You do realize that everyone can tell that you're samefagging, right smogonfag?

Smogon is an objectively bad gaming community that cultivates objectively bad metagames. The fact it's still the best competitive Pokemon community just says how terrible this franchise is in general.

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>>33202340
>>33202360

>accusing someone of samefagging more than 36 hours after the original post

lmfao

>>33202368
>objectively bad metagames
wew

>>33188706
Playing in cartridge with volturn Megasalamence team right now, I should say I'm not the one disconnecting nor having an autistic fit.

You play the metagame you get, if anyone asks me to play OU I'd do it out of human decency since I'm a primarily OU faggot, but if people want a different metagame I wouldn't shy from it, identifying cores on any metagame is actually something Smogon encourages and thus makes you good on most of them.

>>33202368

I am under no delusions that Smogon is the best thing on the planet. But you're not wrong- Pokemon is a terribly balanced franchise that Gamefreak essentially puts no value into maintaining any kind of balance.

So yeah Smogon is currently the best ruleset for a game series with fucked balance.

What is so inherently bad about that?

I just don't get what pisses people off so much about people getting competitive over a popular game, (which happens to almost any PvP game that gets popular enough,) and injecting their own ruleset to try to make the game as competitive as possible when the developers clearly couldn't give a fuck.

OP here, I didn't expect so much feedback, glad to see there are many Smogon supporters on /vp/.
As for the rest, why so much hate? Why come to this thread and post against Smogon? (Not to mention the guy who cared enough to make a hate bait parody of this thread). Noone forces you to play by their rules nor get involved into their community, you can just ignore them and play however you want. Only have to follow them if you're playing on their simulator, and even there you can still play AG.

>>33203159
Pokemon tries, they seem to make-up them first before trying to see how they work in a viable competition.
However, I disagree that Smogon is the best ruleset, they're just interested in maintaining a protective world that their followers can live under.
It is a painful thing to see, especially when you consider that they want to be viewed as a group that "helps" others get into the meta.
I still look at them as pathetic, something that can be easily replaced by a better system if someone wanted to.
There is no balance, they just ban whatever they see doesn't fit their rules which defeats the purpose of trying to learn how to play the Meta properly.
You need to build your team to handle what it can handle, there will be people out there that use things like Evasion, strong Megas, and the like.
Improve your team, but understand that it will never be 100% infallible. There will always be something out there that can be its bane, that is just the way things are.
I want to see a meta that doesn't coddle the player, that wants them to grow into the meta, but won't simply ban shit because everyone bitches about it.
If it can't make someone better, why bother with it, but people do... and they come out of Smogon worse for wear which is why I hate it.
Until they stop their banning bullshit on moves, Pokemon that don't need to be banned, and simply teaching worthless things like "chance shouldn't be an excuse for winning" which was a reason for them to eliminate certain moves from their meta.

>>33204382
Read above on why I dislike them.
Smogon just doesn't work as a good way of learning the game.
As for AG... that is something worse in their area, I will not bother with delusions that no rules will make a perfect world.
On the contrary, we need certain things like clauses and tiers to keep things in order.
Pokemon has done this before, not to the extent of Smogon, but they do it.
Just... it needs work, and revising.

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>>33200777
I want you to know that I solved the captcha to tell you that you are pure cancer to everything Pokémon related and I can tell from your post that you're a massive try hard. Like the kind of try hard that uses autistic starts like stealth rock dugtrio on a stall team or pouring attack EV's into magearna while running shift gear

You bring nothing but cancer to the meta and its obvious smogon has coddled you for far too long you whiny piece of shit

>>33199502
In terms of fully evolved mons, 230 of them are PU and the other 270 are above PU

It's fucking absurd. Smogon's tiering system and names are outdated.

>>33188235
>tfw Ferrothorn ends up in FU in gen 10

>>33199210
Tier systems in FG's either are based of a persons or persons opinions of character viability or tournament results.

Usually a great FG tier list one will make use of both.

>>33199490
I think
PU=Partially used
FU=Fucking useless

>>33205876
Mabye even WU and DU once we hit 2000

>>33193374
>Plenty of bulky support mons without access to U-turn or Volt Switch relied on slow BP

Not really. Very few few cases because you need a pokemon that can take a hit during the Baton Pass well and is fine with giving up a slot for Baton pass because it can operate fine on the offense/support/defense with just 3 moves.

>>33205947
Pitiful Use is a good one.

>>33191136
Game is played nearly 97% 6v6 single style yet the official modes are either double team 4v4 or single 3v3. Honestly doubles need to appear more often in games but to be honest I think they rarely appear because they (gamefreak) think it would be frustrating to the young children playing the games.

>>33205276
>Smogon's bans are all arbitrary and protective from the reality of the game
>AG is dumb because no rules makes no sense

So, what do you want exactly? Make a proposal or your words are just hot air.

You never know, your post could be the catalyst to a competitive Pokemon revolution.

>>33201636
Why not just go UU and below or the other "Other Metas"?

>>33206109
Bans simply remove a problem, they don't allow you the means to adapt to it in a competitive level, AG on its own is simply a free-for-all area where there are no rules or regulations.
A person should be prepared to handle issues like baton passers, evasion users, certain Pokemon users (M-Blaziken, M-Kangaskhan, Aegislash and the like) and status afflicters.
There are a plethora of ways to handle them, one simply needs to look, or be offered the way to best understand how to handle them without saying, "You don't like them, well we'll just nix them from our competitive circuit."
They may be annoying, but whenever you may encounter in the meta should be addressed as a challenge to overcome.
I do like the tier system, the challenge is to set it up so that it works cohesively with what you need and what works with the meta.
Keep the ones like LC that invite people to use beginner evos, add ones for Megas, Legendaries, Mythics, and just break things up in a more organized way.
Add in challenges like the Weakness Cup and even inspire people to think more about different Pokemon, how to use them, and ways to incorporate them into a team.
I dunno... I want rules, because total anarchy just devolves into an absolute mess of people abusing Legendaries and just turning it all into a shit show.
Clauses are a nice system that I think Pokemon does use, and it is something that should be kept to a degree so long as it invites creativity, forces people to think more on their toes, but also avoids hurting the game.
It just... needs work, people to come together to give their own ideas and advice, and hopefully... it can become more than just rambling.
I doubt I inspired anything, but... even criticism without turning into blind antagonism is better than nothing at all.
The more people that can help offer their own two-cents into this, the better it might shape out to be.
Especially your own opinion on the matter.

>>33188783
Sejun is Korean dumbass

>>33200553
>multiple people having legendaries isnt retarded

>>33206663
fuck off

>>33206398
uhm sweetie you don't know that and assuming he's 'Korean' is actually really racist

>>33206663
Who in the hell cares about you or your opinions?
Self-entitled fuckwit, it isn't your board.
Just go somewhere else, because I can't see the point of giving a shit about you beyond just wanting to remind you of your pathetic, meager, worthless, utterly pointless and meaningless existence as a human being.
I may dislike Smogon, but I certainly hate pricks like you more than enough to justify treating you with my utter contempt.

>>33206721
are you okay bud?
everything is going to be fine.

>>33206721
jej. i don't like verlis either and you used some nice SAT words but holy fuck go outside and get some air

>>33200717
smoogon smokes cock

>>33206663
>furcollar
get this shit off MY board

>>33206725
I just... really don't like self-entitled assholes.
Like they trigger something inside of me that wants nothing more than to leap out and start attacking like a rabid dog.
I'm gonna calm down.

>>33206726
I'll calm down, I just... lost it a little.

>>33206751
You sure do like ellipses.

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>>33206738
>complains about fur collars
>literaly on THE biggest furry hive aside from /trash/

>>33193791
"You cannot pass stat boosts to another teammate" Wow such a tough clause to implement. Really makes you think huh.

The only thing that would affect this would be considering using Swagger on your opponent.

>>33206759
It's how I am, I can imagine talking like that so I use them as a way of expressing that I am trailing off.
My habit of writing at times, something I forget that I still do.
I have to catch myself doing it, stop it, and edit stuff because I like to type like how I talk.
Which means I am prone to mumbling in real life as well.

>>33206775
there i s nothin wrong with batun pass retard.

>>33206663
>my board

Good to have confirmation on your autism.

>>33206775
It's not that it's hard on a technical level, it's that it requires altering the game mechanics, which is something that Smogon wants to avoid at all cost unless strictly and absolutely necessary.

>>33186030
battle spot singles is the best singles metagame

>>33205947
PU is a pun. You know, the word people use when something stinks.

Rules are necessary.

AG is such a shitshow I have to run 2 phazers,1 hazer, 1 sleep talker and Tapu Fini to stop Swagplay/Marshadow/Smeargle from doing what they want.

>>33186030
I only wish that they would expedite the process for creating even lower tiers since half the dex is PU right now, but I suspect that there isn't enough interest and the community isn't large enough to support that.

>>33206663
See, even Verlisify knows that pro-smogonism is pure cancer. So get that pure cancer off /vp/.

>>33206274
>A person should be prepared to handle issues like baton passers, evasion users, certain Pokemon users (M-Blaziken, M-Kangaskhan, Aegislash and the like) and status afflicters.
>There are a plethora of ways to handle them, one simply needs to look, or be offered the way to best understand how to handle them without saying, "You don't like them, well we'll just nix them from our competitive circuit."
>They may be annoying, but whenever you may encounter in the meta should be addressed as a challenge to overcome.
My translation: no attempts should be made to balance the game, if it ends up being basically unplayable at a competitive level it doesn't matter, because one way or another I'll just be losing with my Ash RP team at sub 1200 rating.

The best players in the singles metagame tried your "plethora of ways" and concluded that being forced to use those ways resulted in an unhealthy meta, but their opinion doesn't matter and instead we should listen to some literally who with zero results in any sort of Pokemon competition because rules are the devil, right?

>>33195556
That's not ghosting you fucking casual

why do you even bother asking opinions about competition on vp where everyone fuckin sucks shit and is versli-level of bad at both playing, thinking and arguing

have you seen those nigga's replays posted in various threads? (almost) everyone here is a 1200 karenfag shitter who pulls off his gimmick once every 10 battles and then goes back to crying about stall and legendaries

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So I am doing a Ribbon Run starting at Pokemon Gale of Darkness.

I plan to do two mons: Snorlax and Moltres. I'm thinking Brave and Modest, respectively. I am not sure if I should go for a third one. If so, what would you guys recommend?

If they still had the tiers based on usage but numbered them and staggered them more then they'd develop a better metagame overall where a lot more Pokémon thrive.
The biggest tiers I'd make are one between OU and Ubers, for Pokémon way to powerful for OU but too weak for Ubers, one below PU and one between PU and NU.

>>33210179
That would be fuckin pointless. It would literally be the same tier with the broken Pokémon. You might as well have not banned anything in the first place.

>>33210236
I don't think you understand, it's another tier above the one it was banned from where all of the Pokémon who are that tier by usage are. It's not pointless if Pokémon are placed in that tier through being used. OU is so fucking top-heavy right now it could do with having Ubers mini and new OU.
The other tiers at the bottom are just because PU currently holds about half of all fully evolved Pokémon.

>>33209657
You are just nitpicking my post without reading the whole thing entirely.
I guess that means that we should listen to your opinion when you rashly jump to conclusions.
I said that balancing is necessary, that rules are important, and that tiers and clauses do work when used properly.
Banning things doesn't "fix" the meta, it doesn't make it healthier, it is delusional thinking.
With how you're talking, I can clearly tell that you are just going into full defensive mode rather than thinking logically or rationally.
That means that you just don't care unless someone validates your opinion as right, and will simply pick away at the critics for little innocuous things.
You're the worst type of person to argue with.
I will clarify my point, but I simply don't see you as a critic, just a terrible debater.

>>33210852
>Banning things doesn't "fix" the meta, it doesn't make it healthier, it is delusional thinking.
According to who? A low elo shitter from /vp/? Because according to the best players in the world banning things does absolutely fix the meta.

>>33210852

>banning things doesn't fix the meta

take 10 minutes, go read up some old threads on Smogon by Dennissss, copy and paste one of his flowchart baton pass teams (I recommend the stored power variants with Espeon and drifblim), and do a half hour of laddering on AG.

then you tell me whether you think something that disgusting, that absolutely nasty, incredibly grimey, should ever be allowed in a Pokemon meta that bills itself as competitive and reasonably balanced

I'll wait

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>>33206663

>>33211555
He won't because he doesn't actually play the game at all, he just imagines a perfect world in his head where every problem with the meta can be solved with a bit of creativity and Smogon only bans stuff because they don't want to use any Pokemon other than Landorus.

>>33211555
>Smogon by Dennissss
Huh, it doesn't excuse banning Baton Pass, but I find this really interesting.
Are there any records of him losing with one of his BP teams? Does he even show that, or is it all just him praising his team and their success?
I'd like to see a little of his team failing, as well as its successes before making a conclusion about it.

>>33211876
Please, keep casting your assumptions onto me.
It really makes you appear like a fucking insightful genius.

>>33188426
Nah man Protean Greninja is waaaaaaay more busted than Battle Bond

>>33188426
>>33212054
Actually I'm pretty sure banning either would help, since of the biggest problems is not knowing whether you're facing the versatile froge of "let me get my free spikes and u-turn out" or the "stay in and I'll get battle bond and sweep" froge of losing league finals.

>>33189013
Take a look at the ability dex and look at which mons have Early Bird.

>>33211965
You can just look through the mountain of replays by looking him up
I know I've seen a couple of matches where he lost but most of those were just tests of patience rather than skill at that point

>>33212093
Battle Bond has more actual checks and counters and requires to transform, which will be slightly harder without the possibility to bluff, so I'm more inclined to say it's the more "balanced" one.

>>33212138
I've concluded that baton pass is far from op

>>33199149
You do realise he has top 10 in litteraly every tier and top 1 in OU, right?

>>33212138
Fuck, I have been trying to find them myself and I keep running into just random articles he written and other things.
I find it really interesting in a good way that he is so innovative with his teams, even with a ban, he still manages to work around it.
Certain things do annoy me, the repeated use of leftovers being one, but... that is just me.
I favor certain clauses like item clause since it forces people to think more outside the box.
Legendaries are a tricky subject too, I really don't like them personally, I think of them as overpowered for the medium they're in at times, but that is how it is.
I would limit them as well, but that is also just a personal preference.
I just wish they didn't throw them all into AG or something as a way of dealing with the issue.
There should be a mid-point between the two, or even a way that you can still have certain limitations, but not outright necessitate bans without due reason.
Ash-Greninja was one of the first things I remember banned in the meta contests for S/M outside of legendaries.

>>33206663
Fucking kill yourself verlis

>>33212251
>beating a bunch of random ladder heroes
Good job Joey

Meanwhile he has 0 decent recent tournament results because it's easier to roll over ladder randoms than to play in actually high level competitive play

He can keep getting """haxed"""" out of second rate tourneys and his 12 year old fanbase won't care as long as he keeps dropping le dracos for some clean chip with his friends who've stopped caring about pokemon 5 years ago but still show up for the youtube money

>>33212376
sounds like you got your lunch money absolutely snatched during a heatah fajita recording and can't live it down all these years later

>>33212471
I just get annoyed when players who haven't been relevant competitively are treated like top tier players because they win ladder games on youtube

Meanwhile our boy joey has already started preparing his excuses as to why he'll fail OST again

Or you can just mention some of his recent tournament wins and I'll shut up. Go ahead, I'm waiting.

>>33212517
>>33212471
pokeaim was legitimately one of the best players in XY, but he's way less good nowadays. same with blunder but withs ORAS instead of XY.

>>33187803
>my average is 20 turns per battle on showdown
that's not a good sign

>>33186030
it's definitel better than "lel protect"- the meta, but theree needs to be a tier between ou and uber so they can park al the overpowerd OU bullshit there thats not strong enough to compete with box legendaries.

I'd love to play a meta with the OU niche picks and the better half of the UUtier. there are so many tiers below, you can shovel pokemon up as you need more in UU then. right now I only play RU, NU and PU

>>33212517
I'm not even the guy you were originally talking with, lmoa

Joey is just the largest and most visible representative of Smogon style battling on YouTube, so it makes sense that Wolfe glick would talk to him about learning singles. You think he'd want to talk to some of the ladder hero autists like white queen, or pif, or flamingvictini, or mob barley, or something? Fuck no; I won't defend Joey as some paragon of Pokemon skill, but you can't deny that he has a pretty consistent streak that stretches back over a bunch of different metas

>>33212729
>a pretty consistent streak
Of what? Tournament wins? Because if so, that streak ended a while ago.

I don't hate Joey, I think Heatah Fajita is fun to watch, I just don't like it when people claim he's a competitive god because of fucking road to top ten.

>>33212279
Have you just been looking on the smogon forums?
If yes, then you gotta get on Pokemon showdown replays and then look him up, there's tons of replays

>>33212763
no, of just being near the top. it's the same sort of thing with people like NJNP, or abr, or whatever; they don't have some laundry list of tournament wins, but they have an extensive knowledge base and solid understanding of extremely high-level play. that's the draw, honestly, not tourney wins.

>>33212949
>that's the draw, honestly, not tourney wins.
Oh yes, results literally do not matter, despite not winning anything our boy joey is the most skilled and knowledgeable player to ever grace competitive pokemon because I say so, since the only reasonable metric for competitive skill (competitive tournament wins) is actually meaningless when compared to the opinion of Anonymous, /vp/'s premier pokemon analyst.

>>33213023
k

>>33212666
Over-Overused?

>>33213350
what about it?

Smogon and their cultists all deserve to die. You the cancer of the Pokemon community. You're even worse than RLM fanboys and that's say a lot.

Why can't Smogon drones think for themselves? Why do they have do everything Smogon tells them and force their rules on other people.