Who is more busted?

Gen 1 Mewtwo.

At least Megafug can be beaten by other measures besides itself.

>>33107911
Megafug has some counters to it out of the 800 other pokemon. Gen 1 Mewtwo is among only 150 other pokemon, almost all of which are mediocre statwise. It has basically no weakness, because nobody's stupid enough to attack it with Pin Missile Jolteon, and it gets Gen 1 Amnesia.

At 780 BST, Megafug puts up with pokemon that have 680BST. Gen 1 Mewtwo has effectively 744BST due to its Sp Def being a full 64BST higher back then, and has to put up with what? Pokemon that have 500 or so BST, 600 at BEST with Dragonite and 610 with Articuno.

There's a reason it got a heavy as shit nerf.

So why is Mega Fug banned but not Primal Groudon?

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>>33108040
Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

>Pressure

Just give it a good ability ffs

>>33108068
Neither of them have Pressure.

i think primal groudon is worse than mega rayquaza, but mega rayquaza counters are too blatant and ruined by literally anything other than their intended use

>>33108050
Pretty sure both Mega Mewtwo are higher

>>33108083
Ye, but I was referring to base form Mewtwo. It was still a solid pick with or without the Mega. Also
>Mega Kangaskan
>top threat last gen, minor inconvenience now

>>33108090
they nerfed its abillity dumbass and for good reason

>>33108070
Mewtwo gets Pressure/Unnerve. 2 of the worst abilities out there

Just give it an actual ability like they do it with all the new legends

>>33108046
Mega Ray is faster with a flying type Close Combat and has fewer true counters than Primal Groudon.

>Mega Rayquaza counters
Name one.

>>33108208
A version of Sheer Force that increases damage by 1.5 times would be fitting.

Give mewtwo intimidate for special attack.
So strong that it brings fear to the minds of weaker foes.

>>33108438
Air Balloon Diancie.

>>33108040
>Megafug has some counters to it out of the 800 other pokemon
no?

>>33107911
M-Arceus in gen 8

:^)

>>33108050
Mewtwo should get an ability that makes all of its special attacks automatic crits.

>>33108438
Golduck.

>>33108714
Never ever

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>>33108040
id argue that dedicated mega fug checks would be just as deadweight as any gen 1 mewtwo checks

>>33108745
>gen 1 mewtwo checks
Those exist? i thought the best you could hope for was a beefy Pokemon and good RNG.

>>33108040
But I run a pin missile jolteon in gen 1

>>33108040
Mega Fug has checks, not counters.

>>33108715
How in the fuck is this faggot a counter? What is it supposed to do, hope Fug doesn't Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, or attack on the switch?

>>33108050
Shuckle and Ditto are Ubers? The fuck?

>>33108666
Pops the balloon on the switch and finishes off with Earthquake.
>>33108715
Bad meme that is OHKO by Ascent.

>>33109194
That's a viability ranking. It represents how good those mons are in the current meta.

>>33108745
Mewtwo checks? You mean switching in Chansey and watching as Mewtwo boosts to 999 special if you don't get the freeze?

The only gen 1 Mewtwo """checks""" were hoping for a freeze, or paralysing it and then still sacrificing half your team to take it out.

>>33109170
What are scarfed Xerneas and Arceus-fairy?

>>33109292
Checks?
>+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Arceus-Fairy: 402-473 (90.5 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
>+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Xerneas: 558-656 (141.9 - 166.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
They sure aren't counters if that's what you're saying. Xerneas absolutely cannot switch in and must hope that Fug isn't boosting. Arceus can't take boosted hits at all and if you're going for an offensive variant it just fucking dies.

>>33108438
>Vanillite used Icy Wind!
>It's super effective!
>Rayquaza fainted!

>>33109373
No

>>33107911
Mega Rayquaza can be checked with Xerneas, Fairy Arceus, or Klefki. Also it's outsped by Mewtwo, Darkrai, Arceus, etc.

Gen 1 Mewtwo had no (effectively) weaknesses, Gen 1 Amnesia, and was so much higher than every other Pokemon that it was hard to even wall it with Snorlax or Chansey... you just Amnesia till 999 and then sweep everything.

>>33109194
>Has to be in a tier to be viable in it
This is why /vp/ cant into smogon

>>33109489
>Literally one guy says something stupid
>All of a sudden the entirety of /vp/ is retarded
I yearn for the day this meme ends

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>lickilicky used ice beam!

>>33109558
Fine
>This is a common misconception that a vocal minority of posters constantly labour under when discussing smogon or its tiers, which hampers quality discussion.
Happy now?
I assumed /vp/ could work that out from context, but poe's law i guess.

>>33108714

That's what laser focus should have done.

>>33108714
>Mewtwo should be broken because it's not as good as I want it to be in this fanfiction meta that isn't even a real meta within other fanfiction metas
It's been 20 years, anon. Mewtwo's time is over. It's better to accept it and move on.

>>33109649
That's a terrible argument

Not saying the guy you're arguing against is right, but the way you're argument is written, it looks like you're trying to say that power creep is a good thing

>>33109658
I'm saying to stop being a whiny bitch about who is good to use in a banlist. Mewtwofags almost always do this.

>>33109680
Uber's is a tier now. OU is just the start of shitmons.

Gen1 Mewtwo
Its modern equivalent would be a Mewtwo nature locked into Quirky but with 252 EVs on every stat, an ability that makes him immune to Ghost type moves and halves the damage from Dark type moves (Meaning his only weakness is Bug) and whose Amnesia also gives him two stages of Spatk (Also make his base special defense 130).
That'd mean all the ghosts and dark types in Uber are just bad vs him (including Marshadow). Weaker special attackers would be set up bait and the only thing you can do to it is Toxic him.

>>33109194
>people still don't understand that a lot of support Pokémon perform within the limits of the team they're against
Pokémon like Shuckle, Wobbuffet, Ditto and Pykumuku are often stronger the more powerful the opponent they face due to most damage being percentile or based on damage taken.

>base Mewtwo
Berserk Gene: works like Sheer Force but with a 50% boost. Give Psystrike a 10% chance to lower Defense or something.

>Mewtwo Y
Just give it Psychic Surge.

>Mewtwo X
I don't know. Help.

>>33109373
I aspire to be this intoxicated some day

>>33109179
>cloud nine
>choice scarf
>ice beam

Too bad it's basically dead outside of that.

>>33110700
>Mewtwo X
instantly KOs the opponent's pokemon upon switch-in.

>>33110868
>Fug """counter"""
>completely dead weight in almost all aspects but stopping unboosted Fug
>doesn't even stop Fug most of the time
When did this meme even start

>>33109649
Its not a Mewtwo thing tho, i think its retarded in general to give legends such useless and generic abilities like Pressure. They should rework all of them

>>33110995
Well, Mewtwo got its own unique move. It's either a unique move, unique ability, or both. And both of those are constantly in danger of having their distribution widened barring events and some of the lower-tier legends like Ho-Oh and Lugia.

>>33109953
even that's not equivalent given mewtwo had 80 base stats above the second highest 'mon

for it to work he'd need to have the equivalent of 860 base stats and a good stat spread

>>33107911
Ash-Decidueye

>>33111778
Ded meme