What went wrong?

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design-wise?
nothing

NEVER MADE IT AS A WISE MAN

>>32990076
took no responsibility for her actions and refused to accept that any opinion that wasn't hers.

>>32990076
They should've just made PSG season 2 instead.

>>32990088
you mean just like /vp/

>>32990076
There's more than 2 lines of dialogue about her in the games.

>>32990076
Bet she smells like a dirty hobo and dragon semen.

>>32990076
>let me post the same threads and trash memes everyday, maybe 1 day it will be a good thread.

-/vp/

>>32990081
this

>>32990076
nothing jap is just retarded

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>>32990076
She's too similar to Ryuko.

>>32990076
too dark to appeal to nips

>>32990076
ugh this bitch

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>>32990282
>>32990076
Seija Kijin predates Ryuko by a few months

>>32990076
your body produces an unusually high amount of estrogen also your mom swallowed while you were in utero and that is why you're a faggot OP.

>>32990076
she's not virgin.

>>32990076
>"Oh hey, this character looks interesting."
>One ORAS playthrough later
>"Oh no. She's retarded."

>>32990088
>>32990133
So that's why so many people hate her! She hits a little too close to home!

Comes in out of nowhere, all the sudden the story revolves around her then she disappears just as fast.
The fact that she pretty much has access to meta information through "legends" passed down by her ancestors was pretty dumb too.

>>32990515
>Comes in out of nowhere, all the sudden the story revolves around her then she disappears just as fast.
She's shown during the main quest. Though you have to play it.


>The fact that she pretty much has access to meta information through "legends" passed down by her ancestors was pretty dumb too.
Its not meta info though. Its not the first time they talk about other dimensions and stops being meta the second its referenced and used in the plot. Also, all info on legendaries sans anything that happens during the ames themselves comes from legends so by thay logic every single pokemon character is dumb. She also claims the no mega hoenn has been observed anyways.

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>Oh hey let's give her a really kick ass battle theme

>except the battle is meant for you to absolutely destroy her with Mega Rayquaza

>>32990594
>She's shown during the main quest.
Literally a cameo.

>>32990428
lies

>>32990607
>has a cameo
>appears out of nowhere

Pick one.

>>32990607
>shows this random grunt all the time talking to herself
>its later revealed what she was trying to do
>is basically the mastermind behind the awakening of the weather legends
>just a cameo

>>32990622
>all the time
The fuck are you even talking about? The camera pans to her like one time.

>>32990638
two times actually
and not just randomly
first time after you first battled a grunt
and the second time after you defeated the weather legend

>>32990638
>>32990607
Twice, if we go by bulbapedia. If you're gonna hate without playing the game at least read that.

>>32990599
To be fair using Mega Fug was pretty satisfying.

Literally some hack writer's OC donutsteel waifu ported straight from his porn novel, so everything from conception.

>>32990723
>being this much of a hatefag

sasuga /vp/

>>32990076
Horrible post-game

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You can't date/marry and have children with her.

>>32990076
what>>32990081
said. Everything that didn't have to do with her design was done terribly. Even her team is trash.
Her manga version is tons better because she actually receives her comeuppance, but is still a very flawed character due to the basis of her character.

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>>32990786

>>32990076
Literally nothing, the problem is just that Zinnia is an intellectually designed character that plebs, aka the vast majority of /vp/, are mentally incapable of comprehending, so they dismiss her as "badly designed".

>>32990923
She doesn't even have proper motivation for what she's doing

Namely, subjecting the whole region to a pointless death

>>32990824
>what>>32990081
>said. Everything that didn't have to do with her design was done terribly. Even her team is trash.
Xd
>Her manga version is tons better because she actually receives her comeuppance, but is still a very flawed character due to the basis of her character.
Her manga version is based on what /vp/ thinks the game version is.

>>32990923
> the vast majority of /vp/, are mentally incapable of comprehending
This at least is unironically true, but it could be sad about lots of things in this franchise.

>>32991101
>She doesn't even have proper motivation for what she's doing
Yes, she was raised on a clan just to do what she did.

>Namely, subjecting the whole region to a pointless death
She literally tried to prevent that and did.

>>32991114
nice rebuttal, here's you're reply..

>>32990076
Waste of a good character design.

>>32991127
>and did.
What is with the revisionist history in Zinnia threads? Left to her own devises she would have ended the world twice over.

>>32991101
>Namely, subjecting the whole region to a pointless death
have you even played the game? she tried to awakend Rayquaza in order to destroy the meteor that would destroy the region (sure, it was "just" a prophecy she was following, but she was pretty much right at the end of the day)

and she even saved an alternative universe

>>32991201
>>and did.
>What is with the revisionist history in Zinnia threads?
Its called playing the game anon. What critics cant be assed to do. Revisionism would be what you do and i'm still waitinf for an explanation as to why hoenn is safe whenever I boot or.

>Left to her own devises she would have ended the world twice over.
How? Also, kinda meaningless if it didnt happen. Not to mention it wasnt her goal.

people seem to forget that groudon/kyogre would have been awakened anyways at some point because magma and aqua knew about the legendaries before zinnia appeared

she basically just helped them to "control" the awakening process and summon Rayquaza (which, while it didnt work out the way she wanted it to, still most likely softened the whole groudon/kyogre situation)

>>32991226
Because she ended up being wrong anon. Her plan didn't even work and she doomed the world three times, the first time convincing Archie/Maxie to summon Groudon/Kyogre in a failed attempt to get Rayquaza (which sown in Emerald, Rayquaza only awakens if BOTH Groudon and Kyogre are causing a ruckus), the second time when she broke the teleporter thingy (yeah, she ended up being right about multiple universes existing, but she had no basis on her clamis), and then the third time when her attempt to getting Rayquaza to Mega Evolve failed. Rayquaza only ended up mega evolving because the player character just decided to carry around the meteorite in his/her pack instead of throwing it away. Imagine if the player just trashed it? Boom, planet gone.

She may have had the right intensions, but she went about it the completely wrong way. If she just sat down and tried to collaborate with people instead "I'm a Lorekeeper, it's my sole responsibility" and basically go rogue and make an ass out of herself, people would have liked her.

>>32991491
And the own GF admits that the girl is fucked.
Look at her battle animation for example.

>>32991491
The only reason people don't like her is because they're too imbecilic to understand how well written Zinnia is.

>>32991491
> the first time convincing Archie/Maxie to summon Groudon/Kyogre in a failed attempt to get Rayquaza
She only failed at getting Rayquaza because of the MC. Whatever happened in Emerald is irrelevant as its another world. Not the best plan but the point was to get Rayquaza for the greater good, not dooming the world and that never happened unless you can prove it did.

> the second time when she broke the teleporter thingy (yeah, she ended up being right about multiple universes existing, but she had no basis on her clamis)
She did so to not doom another world you idiot she literally said that. She has a basis, her clan observed the other Hoenn, she said so. This wasn't to doom the world, it was to save the other, she had a plan to save Mega Hoenn.

>the third time when her attempt to getting Rayquaza to Mega Evolve failed
That's the only thing she failed to do not thanks to the MC and the world wasn't doomed as the MC achieved it.

>Rayquaza only ended up mega evolving because the player character just decided to carry around the meteorite in his/her pack instead of throwing it away. Imagine if the player just trashed it? Boom, planet gone.
If the MC decided to throw it away then it would be the MCs fault. Planet wasn't gone and Rayquaza´s not picking her is not even her fault, it was Ray's decisions.

>She may have had the right intensions, but she went about it the completely wrong way.
Agree, but you exagerate her wrongs because you are basing yourself on /vp/ hearsay and not played the actual game.

> If she just sat down and tried to collaborate with people instead "I'm a Lorekeeper, it's my sole responsibility" and basically go rogue and make an ass out of herself, people would have liked her.
Nah, the story would be too complex for the pokemon fanbase either case.

>>32990076
My main problem with her is that she does what she wants and nobody even tries to stop her, no matter what.

"I'm just going to waltz into a lab alone and break the last hope for humanity, and everybody is going to look at me appalled instead of shooting me or hitting me with a chair. Teehee."

I understand this is a kids game and kids can't get hurt, but for a character to be aware of this in-universe and abuse it is hack writing.

>>32991532
If GF wanted to make her an antagonist, they should have straight up made her one. She exhibits both heroic and villainous qualities, which for something as short as Delta Episode is, simply didn't have the time to make it work. She's rude and condescending to every character she interacts with, except for the player where she's unnaturally nice to (except for that lol i knock you out k, which considering something as crucial as "Earth is in imminent destruction" was an absolutely stupid moment, even for Pokemon). I don't know whether that was an attempt to make her sympathetic to the audience, but it didn't really work out. I really wish I could speak to the person in charge of Zinnia's characterization cause I don't know what he or she was thinking.

>>32991127
>This at least is unironically true, but it could be sad about lots of things in this franchise.

Like what?

Nothing really. IMO she is okay, but 4chan loves to make things seem like they're worse than they are. Outside of this board, people like Zinnia

>>32991560
>She has a basis, her clan observed the other Hoenn, she said so.
Literally "my uncle works at Nintendo" claim. Scientic research that shows graphs, charts, and actual proof of their scientic achievements holds much more ground than a bunch of hippies barely anyone knew existed who probably got high one time and claimed they saw another Hoenn.

If it was a choice between believing a bunch of scientists that have better claims or some crazy girl who barged in and made an enemy of every one and starts rambling on about "abloo bloo bloo dont use the teleporter thingy because another Hoenn MAY exist", I'm gonna go with the scientists.

>>32990076
This thread, apparently.

>>32991685
Of course you would go with the scientists, because you're unintellectual enough to not side with Zinnia.

>>32991667
Most of the lore, what a video game is, what an anime is, what canon means, what fanfic means, etc.

>>32991685
>Scientic research that shows graphs, charts, and actual proof of their scientic achievements holds much more ground than a bunch of hippies barely anyone knew existed who probably got high one time and claimed they saw another Hoenn.
In the pokemon world it worked a lot of times as the people involved recently experienced with Groudon/Kyogre's awakening. Her clan was also prepared to face this meteor. She has a basis for herself. If anything the issue would be Cozmo, Steven and the MC believing this, but then the badly written ones are them, not Zinnia.

Can somebody post the manga scene where fug pushes her shit in for trying to ride him into Space instead of R/S?

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>>32991828
no

>>32991828
Fuck off, that awful scene is cancerous.

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>>32991843
Cute picture

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>>32991877

>>32991560
I can't tell if this is bait or you were dropped on your head as a child, but I'm going to respond anyways.

>She only failed at getting Rayquaza because of the MC.
She didn't fail because of the MC. Rayquaza was just still asleep. If the MC didn't bother to stop Primal Groudon/Primal Kyogre, then everyone would either be boiled or six feet under.

>She did so to not doom another world you idiot she literally said that. She has a basis, her clan observed the other Hoenn, she said so.
Already addressed as a claim that holds no water by someone else, ain't gonna get into that.

>That's the only thing she failed to do not thanks to the MC and the world wasn't doomed as the MC achieved it.
>False, and if the MC wasn't there/didn't hold onto the Meteor, then the world would indeed be doomed.

>If the MC decided to throw it away then it would be the MCs fault. Planet wasn't gone and Rayquaza´s not picking her is not even her fault, it was Ray's decisions.
How the hell would the MC know about some hippy's crazy scheme to save the world? Yeah, this would partly be Rayquaza's fault, but the snake-lord only picks hoes that gives him a Mega Form.

>Agree, but you exagerate her wrongs because you are basing yourself on /vp/ hearsay and not played the actual game.
As someone that has actually played the game, I have to disagree with you. Perhaps she was a character written to be such a fuck-up, and if so, congratz, they nailed it so well.

>Nah, the story would be too complex for the pokemon fanbase either case.
Then that just means it would still be her fault.

>>32991980
So you're just baiting. Good to know.

>let's destroy humanity's only chance for survival, there could be parallel universes after all!
>it's not like I have a reliable alternative solution though, te-he xD

>>32992028
>humanity's only chance for survival
>even though there is a prophecy that tells an alternative solution and there most likely didnt exist a single Prophecy in the pokemon-world that was wrong

>>32991980
>She didn't fail because of the MC.
Didn't the MC stop Groudon/Kyogre? Why would Rayquaza awaken if Groudon and Kyogre had been stopped?

>Already addressed as a claim that holds no water by someone else, ain't gonna get into that.
Except it does as already proven.

>False, and if the MC wasn't there/didn't hold onto the Meteor, then the world would indeed be doomed.
Was the world doomed? I can boot up OR and Hoenn seems fine. Can you explain that?

>How the hell would the MC know about some hippy's crazy scheme to save the world?
I never said he had to know, I wouldn't blame the MC if he threw it away. Regardless of whether he did throw it away or not, Zinnia had nothing to do with it. A good chunk of your points are based on criticizing other character's faults while putting the blame on Zinnia.

>As someone that has actually played the game,
Toppest of keks.

>Then that just means it would still be her fault.
She's not real anon, she didn't write Delta Episode nor is she at fault about the fact the pokemon fanbase is retarded.

>I can't tell if this is bait or you were dropped on your head as a child, but I'm going to respond anyways.
Says the guy who, in order to criticize Zinnia, points out the actions the MC, Cozmo, Steven, Rayquaza, the ORAS writers and the pokemon fanbase instead of Zinnia's.

>>32992028
>there could be
there are, as seen in RSE, and as she believes so herself.

>it's not like I have a reliable alternative solution though, te-he xD
She did, it worked. Play the game.

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>>32990923
correct answer
this is now a Zinnia thread

she is hot.

>>32992028
We would explain why you're wrong, but considering that you're too stupid to understand why Zinnia is a well written character, you would be too stupid to understand the explanation too.

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>>32991956

>>32992075
I'm looking at this and it seems you're stuck on the ideology of "it didn't happen, so it ain't true".

>Didn't the MC stop Groudon/Kyogre? Why would Rayquaza awaken if Groudon and Kyogre had been stopped?
Again, she didn't fail because of the MC. She was riding on the fact that Rayquaza had to stop the conflicts, but if anyone played Emerald, the only time Rayquaza actually stops it is when you wake dat boi up and he swoops down to stop the battle between the two weather deities. Speaking logically, it wasn't even a sure thing that Rayquaza would come, because only one or the other was awake. The MC just gotta stop a crisis, y'know? And remember. If her first plan didn't fail, many lives would've been lost as a result.

>Except it does as already proven.
Your proof doesn't create enough leverage to sustain your argument.

>Was the world doomed? I can boot up OR and Hoenn seems fine. Can you explain that?
Yep. The MC was there, the MC had the meteor. Rayquaza ate it, choose the MC, and events proceeded as normal.

Take away the MC or the Meteorite? Ruined world.

>Regardless of whether he did throw it away or not, Zinnia had nothing to do with it. A good chunk of your points are based on criticizing other character's faults while putting the blame on Zinnia.
Except the blame isn't on Zinnia there. It wouldn't be anyone's fault is the Meteorite was thrown away or given back to Prof. Cosmo, because no one would've known.

And trust me, I'm only faulting Rayquaza and Zinnia.

>She's not real anon, she didn't write Delta Episode nor is she at fault about the fact the pokemon fanbase is retarded.
Next you're gonna tell me that grass is green. I mainly blame her for one real thing.

Destroying a very real solution to the meteor problem, Steven's teleporty thingy, because of a far-fetched theory she had that there was another universe that could be harmed in the process. Doesn't help that she does a lot of this shit, scot-free. That's just crap writing.

>>32992153
that's literally the only redeemable quality she has

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Holy shit! Those bitches are still circlejerking? It has been hours!

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>>32991828
sure

>>32992238
Obliterated.

Thanks, my mans.

>>32992209
>I'm looking at this and it seems you're stuck on the ideology of "it didn't happen, so it ain't true".
Yes, headcanon is not fact, as every other fanbase would automatically assume.

>but if anyone played Emerald, the only time Rayquaza actually stops it is when you wake dat boi up and he swoops down to stop the battle between the two weather deities
Zinnia is not real, she didn't play Emerald nor she appeared in Emerald.

>Speaking logically, it wasn't even a sure thing that Rayquaza would come
Depends on what the myth said and the myths she had clearly said Ray would come either case.

>The MC just gotta stop a crisis, y'know? And remember. If her first plan didn't fail, many lives would've been lost as a result.
Yes, its said she assumed that. But her assumption were that Ray would wake up, stop Groudon or Kyogre and join her to beat the meteor. She didn intend to doom humanity but picked a plan that would doom some for the greater good of both universes. A shit plan, to be sure, but criticize it for what it did wrong.

>Your proof doesn't create enough leverage to sustain your argument.
Are megas in RSE then?
Did the meteor not come to Hoenn?
What part is wrong? Say what it is. Otherwise you can't say anything about the leverage of my proof.

>Yep. The MC was there, the MC had the meteor. Rayquaza ate it, choose the MC, and events proceeded as normal.
And Hoenn was saved? So the world wasn't doomed? Or you considered the world existing as normal as being doomed? Please explain.

>Take away the MC or the Meteorite? Ruined world.
Ok, lets try this another way. You have the MC. The MC has the meteorite. The MC throws the meteorite away. In these last three sentences where does Zinnia show up?

>Except the blame isn't on Zinnia there. It wouldn't be anyone's fault is the Meteorite was thrown away or given back to Prof. Cosmo, because no one would've known.
Oh, so I´m right thanks.

1/2

>>32992238
Such vile and disgusting murder fantasy expressed by a professional manga writer in a manga for kids. How come he's allowed to get away with this shit?

>>32992209
2/2

>And trust me, I'm only faulting Rayquaza and Zinnia.
And you're doing a shit job on the Zinnia side.

>Next you're gonna tell me that grass is green.
If you're bothered at people mentioning obvious shit then don't show ignorance of said obvious shit.

>Destroying a very real solution to the meteor problem
Said solution would have destroyed the RSE earth. Why do you hate it so much?

>because of a far-fetched theory she had that there was another universe that could be harmed in the process.
She. Literally. Said. Her. Fucking. Clan. Observed. It.

> Doesn't help that she does a lot of this shit, scot-free.
Considering that her actions amounted to savign the world and this is the same world that Giovanni, Maxie, Archie, Guzma and others walk aways scott free its not that big of a deal.

>That's just crap writing.
Eh, its not the best and even pokemon did better but you cant say its crap if you didn't understand it.

>>32992284
it's zinnia, everyone wants to do this to her

>>32992297
Only low IQ morons (which happens to be the majority) want to do that to her.

>>32992300
even a honedge is less edgy

>>32992294
>She. Literally. Said. Her. Fucking. Clan. Observed. It.

A clan that nobody in the Delta Episode even knew existed except for Zinnia. How long are you gonna keep up this bait btw?

>>32991101
not true though
she was right about groudon and kyogre
so the next logical step was believe rayquaza´s legends

>>32992316
>A clan that nobody in the Delta Episode even knew existed except for Zinnia.
Zinnia and the other members of the clan the MC meet you mean?

>How long are you gonna keep up this bait btw?
pokemon has to be the only community where playing the game the community is all about is considered bait.

>>32992357
>other members
>s
you mean member, cause the only other one the player meets in the story is Zinnia's grandma. But I see you're willing to keep your hook baited until this thread archives or 404's so toodles.

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>>32992357
dont worry
he is literally retard, thats why he is saying you are baiting

>>32992417
>>32992357
>responding to yourself
how laughable. Put on a trip so I can filter you.

>>32992401
Well, for a story made up by an old lady and a young girl most of it has been proven mostly right and Ohmori confirmed Aster is her predecesor never mentioning the draconid people don't exist.

But sure, they totally don't exist because that would put Zinnia in a bad light and that's more important than actually playing the game.

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>>32992430

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>>32992459
>that hackjob MS Paint editing

>>32992275
>>32992294

>Yes, headcanon is not fact, as every other fanbase would automatically assume.
No shit, but the way you're going about it makes me assume that you refuse to consider anything else.

>Zinnia is not real, she didn't play Emerald nor she appeared in Emerald.
Again, no shit. That was meant in an outside perspective.

>Depends on what the myth said and the myths she had clearly said Ray would come either case.
Alright, I'll give you that one. That was a detail I missed.

>She didn't intend to doom humanity but picked a plan that would doom some for the greater good of both universes. A shit plan, to be sure, but criticize it for what it did wrong.

Alright, then I got a question.

The first plan was to call Groudon/Kyogre to cause worldly destruction and coax Rayquaza over.

The second plan was to collect Mega Stones, get them on Rayquaza's bitchin' Sky Tower, and call him there.

All with the end-goal of riding him to space and destroying the meteor.

How did the plan shift from many casualties to very little?

>What part is wrong? Say what it is.
Lack of factual evidence? She says this, but doesn't have anything physical to back it up. We're just supposed to believe her on word.

>And Hoenn was saved?
Yes, Hoenn being saved is normal events.

>In these last three sentences where does Zinnia show up?
Nowhere. She ain't got shit to do with the meteor. Just saying that her plan succeeded sheerly on that coincidence.

>And you're doing a shit job on the Zinnia side.
B o i.

>Said solution would have destroyed the RSE earth. Why do you hate it so much?
>She. Literally. Said. Her. Fucking. Clan. Observed. It.

Alright, let's say they were they, and they did actually observe the otherworld. How would Zinnia know that such a teleporter would exactly teleport this meteor there and destroy that Earth? She doesn't. Just because one thing is true doesn't mean the other is.

1/2

>>32992294
>Considering that her actions amounted to savign the world and this is the same world that Giovanni, Maxie, Archie, Guzma and others walk aways scott free its not that big of a deal.
Again, I'm just gonna give you that one, the most I think about it.

>Eh, its not the best and even pokemon did better but you cant say its crap if you didn't understand it.
Irony.

>>32992488
>such a teleporter would exactly teleport this meteor there and destroy that Earth?
fair point, she assumed that as a possibility.
But the scientists didnt know where the meteor would go, so they basically just threatened every possible alternative universe/maybe even another part of their own universe

>>32992488
>No shit, but the way you're going about it makes me assume that you refuse to consider anything else.
I´m not, I just want Zinnia critiziced for what she actually did wrong.

>Again, no shit. That was meant in an outside perspective.
Then its irrelevant to bring up as something Zinnia should've known.

>How did the plan shift from many casualties to very little?
The first one was the only one that had many causalties and that was stopped by the MC. The other two had zero(or potentially only her I guess given she was literally going to go to space, maybe Deoxys).

>Lack of factual evidence?
Aside from the RSE editions of pokemon ORAS is a remake of? Aside from myths being true in the pokemon world? Aside from the fact the rest of the lore of the draconid people was true and seen in ORAS? What else do you want?

>We're just supposed to believe her on word.
We as players? Yes. As posted above there's a reason for this.
We as the MC? We have seen myths at work and, again, if anything, the MC is the badly written one, not Zinnia as she has reasons to believe in what she believes.

>Yes, Hoenn being saved is normal events.
I'll assume you consider saved!=doomed as you didn't clarify. Which means I'm right.

>Nowhere.
Not Zinnia's fault.

>Just saying that her plan succeeded sheerly on that coincidence.
Yes, a coincidence that solved an issue Zinnia didn't plan for.

>Alright, let's say they were they, and they did actually observe the otherworld.
It's not a "let's say", they did.

>How would Zinnia know that such a teleporter would exactly teleport this meteor there and destroy that Earth?
The plan was literally to throw the meteor to another dimension. What Cozmo and Steven didn't know is that people lived there. Zinnia knew this detail. If the plan weren't to throw the meteor to another dimension then maybe she wouldn't have minded.

>>32992603
she's enjoying it

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>>32992612
who wouldnt like a foot in his vaginal region

>>32990076
usurped maxie/archie's role as big bad and had no consequence for her actions despite nearly dooming the world twice

gutted a major location from the original games for the sake of exposition

hamfisted lore about a secret ancient clan that holds no precedence in hoenn at all

>>32992689
>no consequence for her actions despite nearly dooming the world twice
just like pretty much every pokemon villain
only that she actually helped saving the world

>>32992558
>I´m not, I just want Zinnia critiziced for what she actually did wrong.
Then in your words, what exactly did Zinnia do wrong?

>Then its irrelevant to bring up as something Zinnia should've known.
My argument was somewhat hinged on the fact that the lore in question only stopping the conflict when Groudon and Kyogre were at it, but since that ain't the case, I'll have to refute it.

>The other two had zero(or potentially only her I guess given she was literally going to go to space, maybe Deoxys).
That doesn't answer my question. What mind considers such a dangerous plan first, rather than the Mega Stone plan?

>Aside from the RSE editions of pokemon ORAS is a remake of? Aside from myths being true in the pokemon world? Aside from the fact the rest of the lore of the draconid people was true and seen in ORAS?
Meta, not necessarily, and we've only met one other draconid and that didn't shed much light on alternative worlds. How about physical proof? Data? Recordings? Anything?

>I'll assume you consider saved!=doomed as you didn't clarify. Which means I'm right.
That's your fault for taking so long to realize basic logic.

>Not Zinnia's fault.
No shit. Still right though.

>Yes, a coincidence that solved an issue Zinnia didn't plan for.
That doesn't help your argument, but I'm just gonna refer to my previous statement. No shit.

>It's not a "let's say", they did.
Let's say.

>The plan was literally to throw the meteor to another dimension. What Cozmo and Steven didn't know is that people lived there. Zinnia knew this detail. If the plan weren't to throw the meteor to another dimension then maybe she wouldn't have minded.
That's a huge jump you made. Zinnia would have to know the details of the inter-dimensional transporter to know that it would teleport the meteor to a dimension that was inhabited. For all she knew, it could've hit nothing important. Either she assumed it or made a huge ass-pull.

>>32992689
>usurped maxie/archie's role as big bad and had no consequence for her actions despite nearly dooming the world twice
She wasn't presented as a villain.

>gutted a major location from the original games for the sake of exposition
That's more of an issue of ORAS's design philosophy than something about Zinnia.

>hamfisted lore about a secret ancient clan that holds no precedence in hoenn at all
Yeah, they should stop introducing new things to the pokemon lore.

>>32992544
Ayyy, now that's interesting.

If we're going by the rule of infinite possibilities, then you're right on the money, mate.

They wrote a character whose absurd and extremist actions are only understandable with a certain context and then did not even attempt to provide that context in the game itself, also while she would work in her story with that context being given she is also forcibly tied into an existing story which ultimately only weakens the weight of that story and weakens the logic of her own story

>>32992717
>Then in your words, what exactly did Zinnia do wrong?
You're the one that has to prove yourself right, not me.

>What mind considers such a dangerous plan first, rather than the Mega Stone plan?
Your question was how the plans shifted, and I answered that.
This other question is a completely different thing and yes, if there was another way to wake Rayquaza up she should've gone for that one first. This is something she did do wrong. I'd assume she didn't know who had a megastone or not enough people in Hoenn did before the MC starts his journey.

>Meta, not necessarily, and we've only met one other draconid and that didn't shed much light on alternative worlds. How about physical proof? Data? Recordings? Anything?
That just means the player is gullible, not Zinnia's fault. Stop making things that aren't about Zinnia about her.

>That's your fault for taking so long to realize basic logic.
But I do realize basic logic. Your issue is that you do not. I mentioned that because you said Zinnia doomed everyone yet everyone is safe and sound. The only way you are making any sort of sense is if you consider it the other way around but now you even say you don't so you're once again saying I'm right.

>Still right though.
No. Things that Zinnia didn't do aren't her fault. Basic logic.

>That doesn't help your argument, but I'm just gonna refer to my previous statement. No shit.
So you have no point.

>Let's say.
RSE

>Zinnia would have to know the details of the inter-dimensional transporter to know that it would teleport the meteor to a dimension that was inhabited.
Not really. To put it simply, Devon said "what's the worst that can happen?". Zinnia knew what's the worst that can happen and acted based on it.

>For all she knew, it could've hit nothing important.
Or it could've hit an inhabited dimension.

>>32990076
Note batefoot.
Feet aren't in my face.
No cutscene where she pegs the main character.

>>32992717
>For all she knew, it could've hit nothing important. Either she assumed it or made a huge ass-pull.
but the scientists knew it would transfer the meteorite into anther random dimension (that also means that they are aware of different dimensions) but they wanted to do it anyways, threatening every possible universe to be destroyed

THEY should face some consequences

Daily reminder St*ven Stone was close to genociding an entire planet

And no one calls him a bad guy

>>32992801
>You're the one that has to prove yourself right, not me.
If you don't believe she did anything wrong, just say so, c'mon dude.

>Your question was how the plans shifted, and I answered that.
How did you consider them two different questions? I'm baffled.

>This is something she did do wrong.
Well, there you go. And you could be right with that assumption too.

> I mentioned that because you said Zinnia doomed everyone yet everyone is safe and sound.
It's like you're having a miniature stroke.

>No. Things that Zinnia didn't do aren't her fault. Basic logic.
Can't tell if bait. No shit. I said that her plan would've gone to shit, had the meteor not been there, or the MC. Is that her fault? Of course not, but it proves how flawed her plan was.

>RSE
Let's say.

>Not really. To put it simply, Devon said "what's the worst that can happen?". Zinnia knew what's the worst that can happen and acted based on it.
>Or it could've hit an inhabited dimension.
So by your logic, Zinnia was assuming the worst-case scenario and smashed it based on that.

Like her original faith plan didn't have losses.

Amazing.

>>32992826
Any, not every. Still, I don't disagree with that.

>>32992238
Holy shit is the pokemon manga this dark? I just came here for cute pics

>>32992977
>Holy shit is the pokemon manga this dark?
Nah. Zinnia ends up in recovery and it's implied she'll be fine.
There is more violence and blood in this manga than what you would expect from pokemon related material, but it's hardly dark.

>>32993081
many characters still die (for real, without return) though

>>32993081
Ah alright cool. Ty.

>>32993081
Remember when Lysandre died?

That was cool tho'.

>>32990076
She's a strong woman and it made a lot of insecure bois uncomfortable.

>>32992238

her salamelence just stood there and did nothing?
I know he's fugging rayquaza but holy shit I would be extremely pissed if anyone harmed or even killed my trainer

>>32993113
It´s supossed to be paralized by fear and surprise
but yeah, the manga is poorly written in general

>>32993132
Yeah, that was kinda weird.

Aren't Salamence supposed to be murderous dragons anyways?

>>32992968
>If you don't believe she did anything wrong, just say so, c'mon dude.
If you wanna think I believe that go ahead. What I believe is not in discussion here so it would derail the argument.

>How did you consider them two different questions? I'm baffled.
Because they are completely different semantically. Zinnia's plans are shifted in the game. The fact that you cant word properly doesnt help your case.

>Well, there you go. And you could be right with that assumption too.
Which doesnt make for a shit character on its own.

>It's like you're having a miniature stroke.
Proper reading comprehensioj skills arent strokes. Though with your weird way of wording things you might think so.

>Can't tell if bait. No shit.
Then stop pinning the blame on her.

>I said that her plan would've gone to shit, had the meteor not been there, or the MC. Is that her fault? Of course not, but it proves how flawed her plan was.
You dont always have 100% info on planning. Unexpected factors are a thing.

>Let's say.
Stop, seriously, you're denying evidence.

>So by your logic, Zinnia was assuming the worst-case scenario and smashed it based on that.
Yeah, we never get a more detailed explanation on this though.

>Like her original faith plan didn't have losses.
Losing some people in hoenn is different than losing an entire world. Both plans sucks but one sucks less.

I'm going to class btw so dont expect a reply any soon.

>>32993146
battles in the manga are generally very poorly choreographed and the outcome isn't really explainable

>>32990638
Little known fact, she's present fighting on top of Mt. Chimney along with the other grunts against the opposing team.

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>>32993156
>comprehensioj
I don't know why this makes me so mad, but it does.

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>>32990282
>KLK

>>32991560
We know the other Hoenn exists because we saw/played it 10-12 years prior, but from an in-universe perspective her words hold no scientific bounds and it would literally be the same as somebody telling NASA not to teleport a meteor away from Earth because, 'lol, a parallel Earth exists." not that ketting an asteroid destroy the real Earth would be a bad thing

>>32990282

No. She's not.

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>>32992209

>>32990594
>She also claims the no mega hoenn has been observed anyways.
I don't think she did. She just makes a run-on sentence where she mentions the hypothetical existence of such a thing, and the possibility of it being in danger as a consequence of Devon's plan. She then proceeds to not back up anything with any sort of evidence.

The problem is not what she does (attempting to save Hoenn with Rayquaza's aid) but how she goes about it and how she acts. Everything that goes wrong during the Delta Episode is because of her (and even before that, since she's one of the catalyst informants of Team Magma/Aqua). The other characters (and not just the mute player character) encounter her multiple times during the Delta Episode storyline and try to talk her out of her life of crime (stealing mega stones) and wanton destruction (wrecking Devon's plans), but she just goes on trucking with self-righteous fervor. She has all the characteristics of an antagonist that your player character should beat some sense into... but instead the plot demands that you agree with her and go through with her plan that she never actually bothered to explain to you before you're already at the Sky Pillar. And then it turns out that because of a total coincidence, her method of saving Hoenn would have been a failure were it not specifically for the player character's presence at Rayquaza's summoning. The Delta Episode is resolved, just like that, with no real thought on anyone's end. Zinnia makes a weak apology for causing trouble and excuses her actions by saying she "had to get creative", but who's gonna buy that? She could have easily asked for help from people with key stones, she could have asked for the cooperation of Devon, but she did the opposite of that, antagonising and endangering everyone. And yet she's somehow the hero of the day, backed by yours truly, even though it makes no sense for the player character to do so.

>>32994105
Then, as said, the flaw is in the MC Cozmo and Steven.

>>32994647
>I don't think she did.
>https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Zinnia
>And about the existence of another world, which we have long observed to be just like this one and yet not the same

>She then proceeds to not back up anything with any sort of evidence.
Accepting everything told to you and not being a little bit judgemental is a flaw. For example, /vp/ promotes a lot of misinformation about Zinnia. Is it wrong to promote misinformation? Yeah, sure. Its also wrong on your part to accept it without having played the game.
In this case, the MC, Steven and Cozmo accepted the presented statement, they are at fault. Zinnia is not the people she told about the other world. Zinnia is not the MC. Zinnia is not Steven. Zinnia is not Cozmo. Zinnia is not every character in the franchise that has writing flaws, she's just one out of those. If she somehow is Steven, Brendan, May or Cozmo prove it.
>inb4 Reddit

>Everything that goes wrong during the Delta Episode is because of her (and even before that, since she's one of the catalyst informants of Team Magma/Aqua).
She didn-t make Maxie and Archive into retards, she didn't make the meteor come to Earth, she didn't plan on Rayquaza not picking her, not everything was because of her, just some of it.

1/2

>>32994647
2/2

>ut she just goes on trucking with self-righteous fervor.
Yes, lack of comunication is a flaw, a single flaw doesn't make an entire character shit.

>She has all the characteristics of an antagonist that your player character should beat some sense into...
Nah, she's more an anime/rival antihero but you sorta need to be familiarized to something that isnt pokemon to know this.

>And then it turns out that because of a total coincidence, her method of saving Hoenn would have been a failure were it not specifically for the player character's presence at Rayquaza's summoning.
That just means she's not omniscient, the plan worked with the info she had.

>even though it makes no sense for the player character to do so.
Zinnia is not May.
Zinnia is not Brendan.

>>32994954
>>32994964
I think it's cute how you try your hardest to make this about Zinnia and Zinnia only. But as we've all come to accept, you included judging by this quote
>In this case, the MC, Steven and Cozmo accepted the presented statement, they are at fault.
Delta Episode is just poorly written all around. Zinnia's point about the possible endangering of other dimensions goes nowhere and isn't really addressed, she just runs off after having wrecked Devon's plan. The player character is forced to act completely illogically to support Zinnia's plan, just so the story can be resolved quickly and Zinnia can be written as the hero. It's not like Steven and Cozmo even accept anything Zinnia says, they just can't do shit about her and have to rely on the player character's strength.

Delta Episode is shit. And Zinnia is its central character. It's only natural that any complaints about it come back to her.

Do you actually have complaints about the Pokemon Adventures portrayal of her? Because that's more or less how things would have gone had Delta Episode been looked over by someone at least somewhat competent at writing. Zinnia acts like a total asshole, and that would be a fine characterization for a character in a story if the other elements of that story acknowledged it. But in the games, they don't. And that's why people hate Zinnia, because her presence encapsulates everything wrong with this little additional storyline.

>>32995128
There is literally nothing assholish about a character who literally saved the world from an extinction event.

>>32995128
>I think it's cute how you try your hardest to make this about Zinnia and Zinnia only.
Yeah, I try to stay on topic discussing the character at quesiton. Which happens to be the one in the OP. What about it? I think its cute how you pin flaws of other characters into Zinnia, and completely diss evidence when they go against the BS you say.

>Delta Episode is just poorly written all around.
Zinnia is not the only character in DE, not everything is about her, you implied so.

> Zinnia's point about the possible endangering of other dimensions goes nowhere and isn't really addressed, she just runs off after having wrecked Devon's plan.
Yes, the plan would have endangered another dimension so he sabotages it, what else do you want?

> The player character is forced to act completely illogically to support Zinnia's plan
Only if you are autistic enough to expect hard scifi in a pokemon game and don't know how pokemon games work. Myths are always true and so is this one. Not sure how not destroying a world is illogical.

>It's not like Steven and Cozmo even accept anything Zinnia says, they just can't do shit about her and have to rely on the player character's strength.
But you fags keeps saying nobody questions her, please be consistent with your headcanon.

>Delta Episode is shit. And Zinnia is its central character. It's only natural that any complaints about it come back to her.
No. If she were the only character in it then yeah, but complaints about her should be about what she does. Complaints about what other characters did in DE should be pinned on said characters or DE's writing in general. This is basic when judging a work, but obviously a person who thinks blaming a character of other's flaws, talking about a game they didn't play, outright contradicting presented evidence and contradicting himself are totally reasonable things to do won't think that.

1/2

>>32995128
2/2

>Do you actually have complaints about the Pokemon Adventures portrayal of her?
We're not talking about pokespe and that's another story. Zinnia is different there and it seems to be closer to what /vp/ perceives her to be in the games. Its really interesting because /vp/ hates pokespe yet had to praise it solely for that. She does work on her own in pokespe but that's a different canon anyways.

> Zinnia acts like a total asshole, and that would be a fine characterization for a character in a story if the other elements of that story acknowledged it.
Anon, before she clarifies everything she's in conflict with the other parties. Please play the game ffs.

>And that's why people hate Zinnia, because her presence encapsulates everything wrong with this little additional storyline.
First, that makes no sense, as explained. Judge Zinnia using Zinnia, not the storyline she's in.
And she's hated because its a storyline more complex than a teletubbies episode and the pokemon fanbase hates that.

>>32995145
Except for the way she goes at trying to save the world?
I mean, if you believe that "the end justifies the mean", then that's fine. But don't act shocked that not everyone thinks like that.

>>32995145
There are two sides to every story.
Zinnia attempts to summon Rayqyaza by manipulating Primal Kyogre/Groudon into awakening. This plan already has several flaws; she is causing a natural disaster-level event to prevent another. It's highly illogical to go for that option first before the one in the Delta Ep. She does not consider asking for help from others, instead she becomes an ECOTERRORIST(!) and tries to manipulate events from the shadows.

Her plan fails. It would have failed many times over anyway given what we know as outside observers, but never mind that. Fourth-wall breaking knowledge does not make for good writing. She then proceeds to go for her second plan. She steals from people, instead of enlisting their aid. She is a THIEF(!).
She BREAKS AND ENTERS(!) into Mossdeep Space Center. She smashes expensive equipment on rather flimsy grounds. She is a VANDAL(!). She trash-talks people who try to dissuade her and reason with her, without even trying to make a case for her own method of saving Hoenn, which she only explains after you've (illogically) decided to go with her to Sky Pillar. And she's NOT AN ASSHOLE, apparently.

>>32995199
>>32995223
Please understand there are multiple people taking part in anonymous discussion on 4chan. Since you can't pin every post to a specific person, it's far simpler to respond to points as they come up, instead of trying to respond with "but you said [x] earlier" when it's most likely not true. I don't intend to agree with every single thing other anons who dislike Zinnia in this thread said.

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She felt like such a huge OC Do Not Steal.

>>32995315
You have to clarify "not him" if you dont want to be pinned with anyone else.
Regardless the only thing that i accused you of doing that wasnt in the replied to post was the evidence thing.

>>32995223
>First, that makes no sense, as explained. Judge Zinnia using Zinnia, not the storyline she's in.
If that makes no sense to you, then I foresee this discussion about a "complex storyline with intellectually interesting characters" going nowhere fast. I really hope you're just pretending and don't actually have problems relating to other people's viewpoints.

>Its really interesting because /vp/ hates pokespe yet had to praise it solely for that.
Well, /vp/ is not one person, as you know. I happen to enjoy PokeSpe in general. Glad we agree about this at the very least, anyway, even if it's not strictly related to discussion of the game storyline.
>she's in conflict with the other parties.
With no real reason to be!
>>32995199
>No. If she were the only character in it then yeah, but complaints yadda yadda
So you're basically willfully ignoring the reasons why /vp/ as a collective dislikes both Delta Episode and *thus also* its flagship character? Why are we having this discussion again? You understand what's happening but you refuse to draw the conclusion.
>But you fags keeps saying nobody questions her
Nope, didn't say that.
>Only if you are autistic enough to expect hard scifi in a pokemon game and don't know how pokemon games work. Myths are always true and so is this one. Not sure how not destroying a world is illogical.
What myth? The one she only explains to you AFTER you've agreed to side with her?
>Yes, the plan would have endangered another dimension so he sabotages it, what else do you want?
Didn't you already go through with this with another anon? That Zinnia is envisioning a worst-case scenario for what the wormhole might do? Then the sensible thing to do would be to ask them to hold off on their plan rather than make enemies of them.

>>32995574
>If that makes no sense to you,
It doesn't make sense to any non retarded person anon. If you want to judge things by judging other things then any discussion you ever have won't go anywhere.

>I foresee this discussion about a "complex storyline with intellectually interesting characters" going nowhere fast.
>""
Who are you quoting? I never said this is a complex storyline with intellectually interesting characters. If anything, this a complex storyline with complex characters FOR the pokemon fanbase. But so is Hansel & Gretel. Its not that DE is well written, its that the pokemon fanbase is retarded.

>With no real reason to be!
>!
The quote was in reply to no one acknowledging Zinnia's assholeness which people did up till the point she clarified anything. Not whether she was right on not clarifying things before which she wasn't.

>So you're basically willfully ignoring the reasons why /vp/ as a collective dislikes both Delta Episode and *thus also* its flagship character?
But I know and already said why /vp/ hates it and its not that. And I'm not ignoring it, I'm contesting the claim that it makes sense for a character to be criticized by the actions of other characters. You really suck at reading comprehension, of course you didn't get DE.

>Why are we having this discussion again?
Becauze people hate Zinnia and posted things that are supposed to be wrong with her. But, as most things aren't either wrong or about HER the discussion arised. Yeah, its pretty stupid if you think about this, but if you wanna stop it stop being an idiot.

>You understand what's happening but you refuse to draw the conclusion.
Ok, what's happening? Please state it.

>Nope, didn't say that.
If it wasn;t you you should have clarified.

>What myth? The one she only explains to you AFTER you've agreed to side with her?
Yeah, that one. The one you wouldn't be asking about if you actually played the game.

1/2

>>32995574
>Then the sensible thing to do would be to ask them to hold off on their plan rather than make enemies of them.
I already said plenty of times(though you have to read those and that kinda requires knowing how to read) that yeah, she should have clarified everything since the beggining. That said, its not bad to ruin a world-ending plan either.

>>32995683
Alright, let's rectify the quote then. "Complex storyline with complex characters FOR the pokemon fanbase."
>Ok, what's happening? Please state it.
/vp/ as a collective dislikes Delta Episode for its poor writing, and *thus also* its flagship character, Zinnia. Although I enjoy blowing /vp/ the fuck out for dumb reasoning behind popular opinions as much as anyone else, I do think it's still overall dishonest to claim that Zinnia is written well if we agree that the whole Delta Episode plotline is of questionable quality. And as far as I can tell, that is something we agree about.
>I'm contesting the claim that it makes sense for a character to be criticized by the actions of other characters.
I would recommend you to do so in a more transparent way then, people might mistake you for simply blindly defending their hated Zinnia.

Anyway, if we do all have such a thorough understanding of why exactly /vp/ hates her, then do you expect to change the opinion of the retarded hivemind with discussions like these? I think not.
>Yeah, that one.
Yes indeed, that one. Why did you bring it up as a point if it's not relevant (as the player character is only informed of it later on, and the other characters never)?

>>32995829
You used your meme wrong.

>>32995805
>/vp/ as a collective dislikes Delta Episode for its poor writing
/vp/ likes poor writing though, and its hypocritical to say something has bad writing if you haven't understood what the heck is going on. But it is a given reason for hating DE, yeah.

>and *thus also* its flagship character, Zinnia
Its ok to hate Zinnia, but for the issues regarding her character, not issues not regarding her character at all. Obviously, she's tied to Delta Episode so most of these end up also being about DE but she's not the only DE character.

>I do think it's still overall dishonest to claim that Zinnia is written well if we agree that the whole Delta Episode plotline is of questionable quality.
For the pokemon franchise its decent enough, possibly on the lower end because it tries to do a bit more that it ends up doing. And this is still the franchise that has the worst product of the entertainment industry so its not like we have any standars. Zinnia's character quality is on a similar standing but its not the literal same thing.

And a character can be written well if the plot doesn't. This is basic to anyone with basic reading comprehension skills. Not you obviously as a game for kids is too much.

>I would recommend you to do so in a more transparent way then, people might mistake you for simply blindly defending their hated Zinnia.
>but complaints about her should be about what she does. Complaints about what other characters did in DE should be pinned on said characters or DE's writing in general. This is basic when judging a work, but obviously a person who thinks blaming a character of other's flaw
I literally spelled it out for you, what else did you want? Seriously, learn to read.

1/2

>>32995805
>Anyway, if we do all have such a thorough understanding of why exactly /vp/ hates her, then do you expect to change the opinion of the retarded hivemind with discussions like these? I think not.
"we" do not have an understanding of why /vp/ hates her. You think its because DE is poorly written, in reality is because DE is written. If DE was so bad /vp/ would worship it. If its not great its clearly not bad enough.

> Why did you bring it up as a point if it's not relevant (as the player character is only informed of it later on, and the other characters never)?
....seriously? Are you, and I'm actually asking this, retarded, drunk or something?
You brought up that the player character is forced to act on Zinnia's plan illogically and I explained it makes sense because the myth is true, said myth is the one I brought up. You would know this if you followed the reply chain properly which requires reading what is actually said.

Anon, seriously most of your points can be summed up as you not being able to read.

>>32995883
>>32995903
Ah, and to anwer your question, no I don't expect to change /vp/s retarded hivemind but I like discussing things which is the whole point of havinga pokemon discussion board.
If you think there's no point in that then stop posting because discussing is also what you're doing. And if you wanted a thread to hate on Zinnia for retarded reasons without no one contesting it then bad luck for you.

>>32995883
>what else did you want?
For you to do it earlier in the thread when you were having a nice flamewar with a bunch of other anons.

>....seriously? Are you, and I'm actually asking this, retarded, drunk or something?
You brought up that the player character is forced to act on Zinnia's plan illogically and I explained it makes sense because the myth is true, said myth is the one I brought up. You would know this if you followed the reply chain properly which requires reading what is actually said.
Yet said myth was not known to the characters in the story at the point when the player character is already making the choice to ally themselves with Zinnia.
Do you already see why this is a point of bad writing, or do you have problems understanding the chronology of events? It explicitly does *not* make sense. The player character has no discernible reason to side with someone who, from their point of view, has committed several criminal acts against friends and acquaintances and also trash-talked them when they were looking into methods of saving Hoenn from the meteor threat. The player character is forced to comply because the writers dictated that only Zinnia's method is allowed to be 'right', not because the characters themselves came to the conclusion that you should help Zinnia. That could only come after her explaining to you how she intends to summon Rayquaza.

And are we seriously going to go through the whole 'oh, /vp/ is just all contrarians, they'll hate whatever is good and like what is bad' act?

>if you wanted a thread to hate on Zinnia for retarded reasons without no one contesting it then bad luck for you.
Nah, I like discussion as well. It just seems like you go out of your way to misunderstand what I say, mistake anons for other anons and are just generally hostile to other viewpoints, which I imagine will get you labeled as a troll fast in most online discussions, and not just on the retard central that is 4chan.

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>>32996014

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>>32990076
I'll just put this here.

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>>32996120

>>32996002
>For you to do it earlier in the thread when you were having a nice flamewar with a bunch of other anons.
Its kind implied that every time I talked about Zinnia I was talking about Zinnia, obvious to any non retard. Also, did so in >>32991733 and multiple other times. That, again, requires reading.

>Yet said myth was not known to the characters in the story at the point when the player character is already making the choice to ally themselves with Zinnia.
Which happens AFTER the myth is told. Before its just acting passive and helping people, but you weren't helping Zinnia. Or not willingly.

>The player character has no discernible reason to side with someone who, from their point of view, has committed several criminal acts against friends and acquaintances and also trash-talked them when they were looking into methods of saving Hoenn from the meteor threat.
Whatever Zinnia did to the MCs friends is irrelevant when there's a fucking meteor coming to Earth and there's a way to stop it.

>he player character is forced to comply because the writers dictated that only Zinnia's method is allowed to be 'right',
While is true you can't pick another option, the other method is definitely not right. If you want to be an edgelord and kill a world, pokemon is not for you.

>That could only come after her explaining to you how she intends to summon Rayquaza.
I'd say that having a way to solve the crisis is enough to start listening.

>And are we seriously going to go through the whole 'oh, /vp/ is just all contrarians, they'll hate whatever is good and like what is bad' act?
Regarding writing its true at least. Everytime the franchise tries something more complex that the average episode of the teletubbies is treated as edgy by people who couldn't even get what was going on. Meanwhile the anime gets a general, multiple other threads and there's no problem with liking it. It's true and if you differ you're new to the pokemon fanbase.

>>32996002
>The player character has no discernible reason to side with someone who, from their point of view, has committed several criminal acts against friends and acquaintances and also trash-talked them when they were looking into methods of saving Hoenn from the meteor threat. The player character is forced to comply because the writers dictated that only Zinnia's method is allowed to be 'right'
Exactly my problem with Zinnia's execution. It felt like they wrote her like an antagonist, but every interaction the player seems to have with her seems to imply the player character is supporting her methods. Your reward for your undeserved loyalty is her knocking you out for no reason at all. Then you learn that her methods would have resulted in the earth being smashed if you didn't happen to have that rock with you.

>>32996002
> It just seems like you go out of your way to misunderstand what I say
What did I misunderstand? Because you're the one ignoring things outright spelled to you and talks about posts you didn't read and a game you didn't play.

>istake anons for other anons
Its an anonymous image board, if you follow a reply chain, I'll assume you're the same guy unless you clarify.

>are just generally hostile to other viewpoints
I'm not, but you have to present a proper argument. You're literally pulling the le open minded card. If you want everyone to be friends and agree with everything you say no matter how stupid it is then go elsewhere.

>which I imagine will get you labeled as a troll fast in most online discussions, and not just on the retard central that is 4chan.
Irrelevant if I'm not actually a troll.

>>32996165
>If you want to be an edgelord and kill a world
Even assuming the multiverse theory is dead on the nose, there's no actual reason to believe it would teleport to the exact same location in whatever universe it ended up in, or that it would retain momentum.

>>32992238
I wish I could unsee this.

>>32996237
Why? It's not even that bad.

>>32996198
>Even assuming the multiverse theory is dead on the nose
It is

>there's no actual reason to believe it would teleport to the exact same location in whatever universe it ended up in, or that it would retain momentum.
You're thinking too scientifically for a franchise like this. And Devon's plan had a minimal chance. Mega Rayquaza had 0 so still better.

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>But what if the meteor landed in a universe without Mega-Evolutio-

>Oh, nothing apparently.

>>32990910
sauce thanks

>>32991540
>>32992193
>well written
I understand liking the concept of Zinnia, or even defending her to an extent, but Delta Episode just was not well written, and Zinnia's execution as a character falters because of that.

>>32996180
>Irrelevant if I'm not actually a troll.
>if
You're acting like all I want is to force my opinions on you instead of actually comparing them and seeing how they mesh. You also make wild claims like
>a game you didn't play.
referring to ORAS.
>Which happens AFTER the myth is told. Before its just acting passive and helping people, but you weren't helping Zinnia. Or not willingly.
At Mossdeep, you are forced to agree with Zinnia that you 'can imagine another way to save Hoenn' and effectively abandon Steven and Devon for no reason. Zinnia had not disclosed her plans to the other characters at this point, only ruined theirs (and acted like an asshole to them).
>Whatever Zinnia did to the MCs friends is irrelevant when there's a fucking meteor coming to Earth and there's a way to stop it.
Sure. Wouldn't it be nice if Zinnia fully agreed with that line of thinking, skipped the whole sabotage act and just told you what she was going to do?
>While is true you can't pick another option, the other method is definitely not right. If you want to be an edgelord and kill a world, pokemon is not for you.
This is another failing of the storytelling of Delta Episode. Zinnia presents a hypothesis that the warphole could make the meteor crash somewhere else, but there's absolutely no reason for anyone to believe this is realistic. What's edgy about that? If you want to look for something unconventional to Pokemon, go for Sea Mauville and the bits about Infinity Energy.
>I'd say that having a way to solve the crisis is enough to start listening.
Yeah, but Zinnia doesn't think so. She'll just force her way, no need for others to listen to her. And the player will help because no reason.
>>32996284
lel

They should have just written it so Zinnia had planned for you to bring the stone to Rayquaza the whole time. It wouldn't be that far fetched considering she was apparently monitoring the situation for so long. It would make her seem less like an reckless idiot, and I wouldn't have been as mad to learn that she just ran away during the Deoxys battle.
The player and Zinnia don't seem to reflect upon her mistake in any real way, so putting that huge hole in her plan to save the world seemed pointless.

>>32990282
>>32990320
this, I guess

>>32990599
you always can choose to not use megafug

>>32996333
>You're acting like all I want is to force my opinions on you instead of actually comparing them and seeing how they mesh.
They don't mesh, you keep on insisting on completely made up things and bringing up my attitude which is a logical fallacy. You don't even bother to read my posts and now you claim I'm in the wrong? fuck off with that shit. You want to play le open minded XD but only if its me accepting your opinion and don't even consider my points.

>referring to ORAS.
Yeah, a game you didn't play.

>At Mossdeep, you are forced to agree with Zinnia that you 'can imagine another way to save Hoenn' and effectively abandon Steven and Devon for no reason. Zinnia had not disclosed her plans to the other characters at this point, only ruined theirs (and acted like an asshole to them).
At that point Zinnia EXPLAINS the myth, you do know it at that point. You know her reasons for stopping Devon's machine and you were given a proper reason for that. Devon's machine is, let me remind you(well, more like tell you since remind implies you played the game) that Devon had ONE plan. Once that was twarted, then its Zinnia's turn.

>Wouldn't it be nice if Zinnia fully agreed with that line of thinking, skipped the whole sabotage act and just told you what she was going to do?
As I said multiple times, yes. Of course you didn't read those multiple times. But sure, I am the one who can't accept your opinion.

> Zinnia presents a hypothesis that the warphole could make the meteor crash somewhere else, but there's absolutely no reason for anyone to believe this is realistic.
We already discussed this to death anon.

> What's edgy about that?
I said killing another world is edgy, not accepting whatever is told to you. Read properly.

1/2

>>32996333
>Yeah, but Zinnia doesn't think so.
Because she wanted to sabotage the incorrect method first. Stopping a killing machine is more important in the heat of the moment than being friends with everyone. She should've talked before that was even in consideration. But when it was ready it had to be stopped.

>>32996387
I understand arguing against his viewpoints, but he's citing specific instances in the game, I think you are past the point of "You didn't even play it!"

>>32996403
Except he's outright making up stuff and the instances are wrong. He assumes you work for Zinnia before the truth about the other universe is revealed which is not true. Anyone can speedread a bulbapedia summary or repeat /vp/ hearsay so the fact that he's citing specific instances is irrelevant if its incorrect.

If he played the game he's doing a shit job at showing it because a person who paid half attention to it wouldn't be as idiotic. Then again, he doesn't even bother reading the posts he's replying to. Regardless, I'd have admitted he played the game if he actually did act like it. I do have to go to sleep so I'm giving him just another reply.

>>32990076
mary sue design
unintelligible character

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>tfw it has been literal hours since the last word in the argument
I think it's safe to say those two are done sucking each other off now.

>>32990076
not thicc enough tbqh

>These are Zinniafags in /vp/
I hope this guy is just one bored autist. It would be very sad if he truly is defending her.

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>>32990076
left-handed
>inb4 "r-REEEEEE!"

>Those two autists finally stopped
Maybe it's because I don't read it word by word, but I honestly don't think they're arguing about the same point.

>>32996387
>no 2/2
rip the autist

>>32990076
Better than any wet blanket from SM

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Sometimes I reply to my own post to hopefully start a conversation with other people.

>>32993095
I find it interesting that Lysandre was killed in the games, manga, AND anime. Even more interesting that of the three, the anime was probably the most brutal one.

Speaking of edgeventures, Zinnia's entire grudge against Devon Corp is that they killed Aster in a raid on Embedded Tower

>>32993095
>>32998564
No one deserved it less. Lysandre was right about everything.

>>32998564
>edgeventures
leave

>>32998596
I know the truth hurts anon

>>32998602
Says the guy who fell for a /vp/ meme.

>>32990076
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIn8_Q27WFY

her battle animation is weird & psychotic as fuck

>>32998594
lysandre was literally hitler

>>32992021
A shitty argument to dodge the discussion.

Are they seriously thinking Zinnia is a good character?

>>32999686
she's intriguing, but unpolished imo

>>32999755
I mean, if the promise of the character is so huge (Dragon master, successor, dark hero, mastermind, etc.) it will definitely be intriguing at least, but that's not enough.

Nothing, it's just Japan having shit tastes for not liking her.

>>33000116
why is it said that japan dislikes her?

>>33000116
So is it acceptable if I say people who like her have shit taste too?

>>32990076
Zinnia could have been a damn good waifu if she'd been in the game proper beyond a few split second cameos. Sandwiching a whole character arc into the postgame only works if you don't give the character unearned importance in the events of the game proper.

>>33000172
I just realized I wrote "game proper" twice and now I'm double mad

Nothing. She's a highly interesting character and I'm currently drawing a manga with her as the heroine.

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Reminder that the only reason Deoxys was riding an asteroid into the planet is because her clan set up a homing beacon tower for it.
The dracojews are a death cult. Zinnia's actions repeatedly and pointlessly endanger the world because that's what they want. She's just an unwitting puppet set up the fail by her elders.

>>32990076
this character being the most cringy precursor to lilie ever
both characters need to be shot

>>32992872
oh no it'd crash down into the sea and become Delta Island and kill nothing but probably some Wingull, which would just be a plus

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>>32993081

Remember when white got cucked so hard by N? Jesus Christ.

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>>33001042
Hi !

>>32990923
You know the Japanese fans also don't lick her cooch, right?

The same Japanese fags that think bitchy ass Erika is a goddess.

>>33001042
This arc overall has lots of drama
And Black is still ded, BTW

>>33001088
Well the Japs are head over heels for basic bitch Lillie so shit taste is in spades over there

>>33001088
Well that just means that japanese fags are plebs who cannot comprehend Zinnia's character with their feeble minds.

>>32996372
Not really. You are literally forced to put it in your party and remove one of your team members to make room for it, and if I remember correctly it automatically ends up in your first slot. You could let Zinnia faint it on purpose by using useless attacks, I suppose, but it's not a simple matter of "just choosing not to use it," you have to actively sabotage yourself to play the real fight.
ORAS really went too far with that shit. I had a full team of six and the idea that Lati@s and Rayquaza deserved to be in my party more than a Pokémon I've been carrying with me most of the game was an insult.

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>>33004069
Fuck you. Lillie is a God-tier waifu.

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>>32992238
This is the only good thing to come from Zinnia's existence and I'm glad it makes Zinniafag squirm

Nothing

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Birth Island proves that Zinnia is full of shit.

Nobody, not even Zinnia knew about Deoxys. They all thought the meteor would crash and kill loads of people and cause a lot of damage. But Birth Island (and the fact that Deoxys was inside the meteor, along with his funky triangle) proves that they were all wrong. Deoxys was likely just controlling the meteor. Deoxys probably arrived much earlier in RS but the result in ORAS would have been the same. No damage would have been caused and no one would be killed.

All that happened is that you blew up Deoxys' sweet ride and made it mad.

>>33007707
>there is only one deoxys

>>33007719
?
That is irrelevant. My point is that no one knew that Deoxys was inside the meteor. They assumed, and not without good reason, that the meteor was just a meteor that would have destroyed cities and such.

But Deoxys was inside. Birth Island shows what would have likely happened if the meteor was allowed to land, which is to say, nothing would have happened. Deoxys could easily have been controlling the meteor as a means of transport.

There was no danger. Even if the whole portral bullshit was right. the other Hoenn would not have been destroyed at all. Birth Island is likely just a island formed by a meteor impact. And even then the alternate universe stuff is just sloppy writing as both universes have warp tiles even though Cozmo specifically lists Warp tiles as an application of Infinity Energy, something which the other universe lacks. But the other universe still has warp tiles, meaning they're actually far more advanced and would have been able to deal with a meteor easily.

>>33007844
>Birth Island shows what would have likely happened if the meteor was allowed to land
no it didnt
we dont know if the deoxys on Birth island is the (dimension-wise) same as the one in the meteor at the oras postgame.
Also birth island already existed before the events of the gen3 games, while the Meteor was falling down After the story, meaning the two deoxys must have different origins (we dont even know how birth island was formed, or if the "creation" of that island had a negative effect on the enviroment as it could have easlily formed like millions of years before humans existed it Hoenn)

The scientists pretty much confirmed that the meteor would have destroyed hoen and therefore most likle any form of hoenn it would have been sent too

those scientists are the people that suffered from bad writing imo

>>33007873
Destiny Deoxys was a good movie.

>>33007707
i hate deoxys; im glad it got FUG'D

>>33007873
The scientists didn't know Deoxys was inside though. That changes everything. Deoxys could have been controlling the meteor. It could have altered its trajectory so that it approached at a safe angle where the meteor would not cause that much damage. I'm not saying this is fact but Deoxys being inside it changes everything.

>>33007910
sure, but there is no reason to assume it would have been safe, as we have never seen Deoxys caring about anything in the pokemon world

>>33007707
>Birth Island proves that Zinnia is full of shit.
Not really.

Zinnia said there's another Hoenn. There actually is and the fact you brought up Birth Island means you accept RSE as this Hoenn.

The other thing Zinnia said is that using the device would mean the meteor would fall in that Hoenn. You already accept this as true because you're using RSE Birth Island.

The third thing Zinnia implied is that this Hoenn would be destroyed if the meteor arrived. Your statement that Zinnia is full of shit only makes sense if Zinnia knew that Deoxys was there but, as you said
>Nobody, not even Zinnia knew about Deoxys
So Zinnia said everything she thought was true based on the information available on her, so she's not full of shit and this already proves you wrong.

Now then there's the question of whether BI is the meteor which you have no reason to think as island and meteor are different things and we are never told Birth Island is a meteor. Not to mention that if it were this same meteor it would fall around the time RSE takes place, which means there's no time for it to produce trees in any way).

>Deoxys probably arrived much earlier in RS
If that were true they would have observed it already, she said her clan observed the other Hoenn. "probably" means shit.

> but the result in ORAS would have been the same
So, Cozmo and the other characters are also full of shit?

Basically, headcanon just to say something bad about Zinnia, as usual.

>>33007991
Not the same anon, but whose to say that Deoxys didn't grow those trees? You don't know how they got there.

I want to fug zinnia

>>33008002
If we aren't told anything else we assume they're normal trees.

When is its said that Deoxys can grow trees?

Its the worst antiZinnia headcanon which considering this thread says a lot.

>>33008018
she's lesbian; aster was her lover

>ITT:Fanboy Circlejerk:The Squeakquel.
God fucking damnit

>>33008041
>Normal Trees
>Far away from each other
>One tree per corner
>Only 3 trees.

Okay senpai.

>>33008177
Deoxys creating those 3 trees for no reason makes so much more sense, right? :)

>>33008189
>Three trees
>Points of a triangle

This is obviously referencing its origin form.

A glowing, red, triangle.

>>33008216
but why would it grow those trees in the first place?

its much more likely that the trees grew on the 3 places that were the furthest away from deoxys

>>33008177
Deoxys can attack, so maybe more trees grew and destroyed the rest to make the pattern. This is inline with what Deoxys can do and we know.

Deoxys can't, however, grow trees.

>>33008230
But then if that were the case, more should've grown on those three furthest points.

>>33008238
This, though, makes more sense. Deoxys destroys trees, makes them into this pattern. Not normally-placed trees, but normal trees in itself.

>>33008265
Exactly, so those trees have grown there before he arrived.

>>33008311
it*

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>This thread is still up

>>33008311
>He
Retarded gender shit aside, that's impossible, because this.

While Birth Island is absent from Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, the end of the Delta Episode alludes to it: after Mega Rayquaza destroys the meteor, a triangle emerges from the remnants, darts about in the same pattern as the puzzle on Birth Island, and then breaks apart, revealing Deoxys.

Therefore, it's pretty clear that the meteor leads to birth island, if it ain't its very creator, and whoever's saying that it'll destroy Hoenn is full of shit.

>>33004255
No, it's fine. Just switch out or let Zinnia KO it. She only has 5 mons anyway making it a fair battle. A complete non-issue.

>>33008355
no, it only shows that every deoxys has that triangle form
The ORAS meteor being the one responsible for birth island doesnt make sense at all

also "creating" a new island is pretty harmfull to the enviroment, especially if its made form a meteor multiple times as big as mega rayquaza

>>33008355
>Retarded gender shit aside
Yeah, I corrected myself after that in >>33008318

>Therefore, it's pretty clear that the meteor leads to birth island
The meteor might fall IN Birth Island if anything.

>if it ain't its very creator
This hasn't been stated nor implied at all.

>and whoever's saying that it'll destroy Hoenn is full of shit.
Except that's meta knowledge as no character involved in ORAS played Emerald.
There's no reason to assume a meteor won't damage teh planet, and even scientists agred on it which is why Zinnia wasn't the only one to take measures.
The draconid lore said it would destroy the world, the same lore that said a meteor would come in the first place.
Deoxys didn't arrive by meteor in RSE, there's no crater in Birth Island, and the pokedex just says it came from space which might mean lots of things, even if there was a meteor, it might not be the same or have the same properties as the ORAS one. Remember this is another world so it works differently.

>>33008342
Of course it is. Zinnia is one of the most popular new characters in Pokemon, which is why the handful of contrarian shitposters on here can't stop making threads bashing her.

>>33008455
>popular
>barely any fan-art
>doesn't appear after post-game cameo

she's as "popular" as buck

>>33008496
>this level of butthurt
huehehehe

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>>32993396
>Naruto

>>33008496
>doesn't appear after post-game cameo
She had a prominent role in Delta Episode, what else did you expect? They couldn't know whether Zinnia was popular or not before ORAS was released.

Unless you mean SM which didn't feature 90% of the characters this franchise had.

>>33008381
I wouldn't call that a non-issue at all.

>>33007991
So is your entire argument "Zinnia is literally perfect and any inconsistencies must not be true because that would require Zinnia to be wrong about something which can't happen"

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>>32990076
She's not a guy.

>>33009352
I like how when proven wrong anti Zinnia fags resort to "y-you're just a waifufag!!"

I never said anything positive about Zinnia anon, I just didn't make up something negative about her. You could remove Zinnia from the post and you'd still be wrong as meteor!=island.

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>>33009594
>proven wrong

>>33009631
Ok, prove yourself right then. So far you haven't. Burden of proof is on you.

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>>33008541
>Ghost in the Shell

>>33004255
>ORAS really went too far with that shit. I had a full team of six and the idea that Lati@s and Rayquaza deserved to be in my party more than a Pokémon I've been carrying with me most of the game was an insult.

If the Latias can become a cute girl/woman, I'd keep it.

>>33008496
Please don't compare Buck to Zinnia, that's an insult to Buck

>>33009656
>>33009594
You know what both of you sons of bitches need to do? Find John P. Gamefreak or whatever his fucking face is, and ask him yourself which one of you is in the right, because unless Word of God can determine a victor, your pointless discussion is not going to get ANYWHERE. I guarangoddamntee.

>>33010273
I don't need to call John P Gamefreak to confirm I played the game anon.

>>32992472
(You)

>>32990081
This

>>33004076
>Well that just means that japanese fags are plebs who cannot comprehend Zinnia's character with their feeble minds.
Do YOU even understand Zinnia's character? Because she sounds like she's insane and full of shit.

>>33000962
Not to mention that she obviously intended for herself to die in the process, given that she talks about Aster as if they'll reunite soon and gets depressed about it when she finds she's unable to go through with it. She doesn't want to kill herself, but she wanted to be killed.

>>33010697
>replying to bait

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Nothing

bumpo

Why do the Japenese hate her?

>>33012626

Only good for wild mating sex.

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>33010364
This "play the game" card has been used so many times in the arguments above that it lost any meaning. Now, it is just a way to be obnoxious and standoffish. Pic very much related to (You).

>>33014477
Because she's not a Yamato Nadeshiko. Japs only want a girl that looks and acts feminine. I can't blame them, honestly.

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>>33012626
That's a cute picture.

>>33014707
and passionate tender lovemaking

>>33007707
Additionally, who's to say the meteor can't be destroyed by regular Fug? That's literally the plot of Mystery Dungeon Rescue Team, and that meteor had a Deoxys too.

>>32993396
>calls KLK shit
>posts a screencap from an even worse anime

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>>33014906
You new here or something?

>>32990076
Nothing. Just a bunch of autists overreacting

She is still a great fap material

>>33015236
sadly no good doujins

>>32990076
DSbabbies can't recognize a good character.

Keep in mind these are the same people who think N is good when he's objectively the worst character in the franchise.

>>33014787
Its just a different way of saying "you're a retard that can't understand a child's game" why do you get so mad about it? If that bothers you don't post "arguments" that a normal person who at least sped through DE would know are wrong.

>>33015460
This franchise has the worst character in fiction and its not N.

>>33015643
First of all, I have a friend who has owned, thoroughly played, and beat every main series game, owns a bunch of spin offs, imported Stadium and Blue from Japan, collects the merch, religiously watches the ashnime to a near obsessive extent, and just basically make people like (You) for example look like a fucking casual in comparison. This said person thinks to this day, Mewtwo is a male. Does that make him right? NO, it does not!
Second of all, I was not the person that you were arguing with about Zinnishit. If you thought I were, you need mental help.

>>33016049
>!
> Does that make him right? NO, it does not!
It makes him a retard who cares more about headcanon than stated facts. So the average pokemon fan. Not sure how your friend being an idiot justifies people saying outright wrong shit. Something bad being common doesn't make it good.

>Second of all, I was not the person that you were arguing with about Zinnishit. If you thought I were, you need mental help.
Irrelevant. If you're on his side you agree with his arguments untill you clarify. And their arguments are retarded. And THAT should bother you more than me saying a person who has no clue about what happened in the game should play the game. You're literally defending idiocy and misinformation promoting. If you think this is a good thing you need mental help.

>>33016369
I am defending neither of you. If anything at all, both of you should have found something actually worth arguing about.

>280 replies
>no one posted the japanese translations on why zinnia sucks that was posted on previous zinnia threads

You guys are either newfags or want to discuss the same shit over and over again when nothing will change

>>33016674
You could've very easily did it yourself, but chose not to.

If she asked you to fill her dragon cunt with warm sperm, would you?

>>33016646
>I am defending neither of you.
You went against me though and thought a figure of speech is more important than the argument at hand.

> both of you should have found something actually worth arguing about.
Says the guy who is more annoyed by banter than misinformation beind posted.

>>33016674
The translation means shit and is on the other thread already.

> want to discuss the same shit over and over again when nothing will change
That could be said about a lot of topics here anon, what would those translations change?

>>33016722
Wow, nothing but true textbook autist replies coming from you here.

>>33016736
>le autism XD
How should I have replied then?

>>32998932
and Hitler was right, so literally what is your point?

>>33016739
>baiting
Your continued attempts at instigating shows your mental disability.

>>33017018
>gets so butthurt he has to resort to post in another thread
>calls anyone else mentally disabled
Sure kid, next time, learn to catalog.

>>33017047
That was not me, "kid".

>>33014477
https://pastebin.com/6iXDxAcf
Here's a translated Jap analysis of the character. I personally think the nip is spot-on with criticisms of the character.

>>33016049
Mewtwo had a deep man's voice in its movie and in Super Smash Bros. Melee. Unless you're one of those weirdos who insist every Pokémon be referred to as "it" there's nothing wrong with calling Mewtwo a man, and the only thing that contradicts it is a shitty movie that gave Mewtwo a girl's voice that came from the worst era of the Ashnime (or second-worst if SM stays as bad as it currently is)

>>33018393
This. Even he is treated as male in the games.