So if the gen 8 fire starter is based off of a member of the

don't care

>>32973829
The last one was a cat that evolves into a tiger. Both of which are related to the story of the zodiac itself. It's real.

I want the gen 8 fire starter to be something no one could connect to the zodiac

>>32973829
I'm really fucking excite for that fire sheep and that fire bunny

Gen 8 is most likely releasing November 2018

Dog starter confirmed.

>>32973857
Yeah, I really want the fire rabbit and fire snake.

>>32973829
Personally don't care either way, but autistic believers will force a connection even if it's obviously not there. We could get a fire iguana and they'd call it "close enough" to a snake. We could get a firefly and they'd find a way to say it's a rabbit.

>>32973883
Dog was Fennekin.

>>32973852
See I'd be fine with that too. Id be equally fine getting a fire starter that no matter what can't be connected to the zodiac. I just want it to be confirmed one way or the other, the 4-5 (depending on who you ask it's 4 or 5) ones that can clearly be related to the zodiac are coincidence, or the 1-2 (again, depending on who you ask) that are very arguable representations are just poor representations of their zodiac counterpart. I just want a clear sign, and for me if the gen 8 starter is obviously a zodiac based creature, that'll be enough for me. Or again, if it isn't, and it's just coincidence would be fine too.

>>32973891
Yes. Because fox = dogs

Fucking retard. This whole theory is fucked.

I want to make something clear for the anons reading this:

The Zodiac pattern has only been planned since gen 3. Everyone knows that gamefreak didn't expect any more games after gen 2; they didn't have any set patterns and were expecting it to fizzle out. In gen 3, they realized there were going to be many more gens, so they instituted a system that fit with the previous starters.

Now, we know they could have only started seriously using the zodiac as a basis in gen 3 for another reason: the beta gen 2 starters. As some may know, the original starters for gen 2 were very different. Chikorita was just a head, the water starter was unrecognizable, and the fire starter was... a bear. Not a zodiac animal.

Typhlosion likely took some design choices from the earlier starter's final evo, and Cyndaquil was used for whatever reason may be, but they added with care Cyndaquil's species name: Hinezumi in japanese, fire mouse in english. Both are explicitly mice.

When you take this assumption and then look at gens 3 - 7 as the MAIN zodiac reps, you'll see that the only one that doesn't explicitly fit is Delphox. There has been a lot of debate about this one already, but I think it's safe to say that they included it as a fox instead of a dog solely to use the Japanese myths of foxes alongside it fitting well enough into the Zodiac.

When you look that they continued and gave us our first tiger mon as a fire starter, it shows that they are obviously still on the zodiac.

So, to recap (and tl;dr:)
>Charizard and Typhlosion were included retroactively
>the zodiac theme started mostly in gen 3 and continues to this day
>Delphox represents the dog position because they thought it was "close enough"

I feel that this, after being described as such, is perfectly valid.

>>32973918
Fox does not fit at all.

The only thing dogs and foxes have in common is their family in the animal kingdom. They are totally different animals.

>>32973928
Zoology fag here

Can confirm

Literally everyone who denies the Zodiac Theory are either
1) Retards
2) Falseflaggers
3) Shitposters
There's nothing but hard evidence for the Zodiac Theory, so the only reason people would have to deny it is if they're any of these.

>>32973918
>>Delphox represents the dog position because they thought it was "close enough"

You people are legit low IQ retards

>>32973928
>The only thing dogs and foxes have in common is their family in the animal kingdom
Good job proving the zodiac theory right, because that's good enough.

>>32973935
Explain how foxes are dogs

>>32973936
Watch. The next game will feature a Rhinoceros fire starter and they'll go

"IT HAS HORNS KINDA SO IT'S CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE OX!!!!1111"

>>32973947
Explain how it's not close enough.

>>32973953
Well, yeah both animals have horns, makes sense.

>>32973958
Having worked with them, I can tell you firsthand.

Their personalities are different.
Their bone structures are different
Their behaviors are different
Their physique is different

>>32973829
All of gen1 was reptiles.
I hope we get another gen where all 3 are the same kind of thing.

We've had 3 birds, 8 reptiles, 2 amphibians, 8 mammals, and no fish or arthropods.

We can have non-water fish. Stunfisk, Eelectross, Inkay, Nihilego.
And we can have non-bug arthropods. Gliscor, Flygon.

Hop to, Gamefreak!

>>32973829
I don't think the zodiac meme became a reality until gen III or IV (maybe even V), but if it leads to me getting a fire snake I'm all for it.

>>32973967
But they're in the same family.

What part of "close enough" don't you understand?

>>32973904
>>32973928
>>32973932
>>32973936
>>32973945
>>32973947
You do realize most people in the world don't even know that there's a difference between foxes and dogs? And it's as much a difference as a dog and a coyote or jackal - which everyone thinks are just dogs anyway. So why not use a fox, which already has a lot of presence in japan, and use that instead to be able to make it more interesting?

>>32973971
I'm the same way. I don't give a fuck if it's real or not, but a fire snake or a fire rabbit/ bunny/ jackalope would be bitchin.

>>32973984
Being in the same damn family doesn't mean they have to be in any way similar

Fucking retard.

>>32973989
Because most people in the world (including you) are actual fucking retards. pick up a zoology book you uneducated fucktard.

>>32973967
Both canids. It's like if it was a jackal or dingo.

>>32974002
Which are both the farthest thing from dogs. Your point is?

ITT: Argue with someone with a higher education than you cause "Muh patterns"

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Hmmm

>>32974029
>Wikipedia
Already displaying your mental defects.
Anyway, I have stated before that just because they are of the same family, does not mean they're "close enough"

>>32974028
Your fedora is being too tight on your brain.

Also, see >>32974029

>>32974034
>Is not close enough cause I said so

>>32973958
>close enough

Seriously, are you mentally challenged? With that kind of meme logic, EVERYTHING will work in that garbage theory

>>32974011
No, like, archaebacteria are the furthest things from dogs.

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>>32973989
>You do realize most people in the world don't even know that there's a difference between foxes and dogs?

Imagine being this much of a brainlet

>>32974044
Red pandas are of the Caniformia. Same as the Grizzly Bear.

I guess if we get a Red Panda in the game I can say it's a grizzly bear cause it's "Close enough"

>>32974029
Okay, but vulpine and canine is literally the next split down.

>>32974001
They're designing for children since gen 6 mind you. Children aren't oft holding zoology textbooks in their free time...

>>32974061
this

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>>32974034

>>32974071
They're dsigning for children since gen fucking 1

>>32974071
>>32974082
Doesn't excuse the idiots on an 18+ board.

>>32974046
Pretty sure you're the one who's mentally challenged here, since you're fighting against the facts that foxes can easily substitute dogs.

>>32974061
Holy shit, we are talking about Canidaes and you bring bears, you must be desperate as fuck.

>>32974076
lmao is that a pic of you

>>32974091
If poking fun at your retarded logic = desperation, then you must be 5 fucking years old.

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>>32974061

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>>32974060
>tfw I know the difference but realize they're approaching it from a more general perspective
It's a guideline, not a hard rule. I mean, you can literally put the actual animals there and no one would call BS except some fedoras or something. No one cares that it's slightly different. Also what >>32974071 said.

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>>32974090
>the facts that foxes can easily substitute dogs.

This fucking thread

>>32974001
>Thinking Devs know or give a fuck
>Even if they did know, it's still "close enough" and they know that NOBODY ELSE GIVES A FUCK and will think the same
You said it yourself. Now get off your high horse for knowing something that only requires a google search to understand, you're not in aerodynamics.

>>32974100
>gets evidence and facts in his face
>fuck off underage

Dude.

If Dogs and Foxes are the same things. . .

Then Raccoons and Bears are the same thing

Then Whales and Dolphins are the same thing

Then Cassowaries and Ostriches are the same thing

>>32974104
>>tfw I know the difference but realize they're approaching it from a more general perspective
Sure buddy, literally making shit up. Also, pokemon was always made for kids

>>32974119
Dude
>Wikipedia
>Comparisons are not allowed

of course you're being called underage

>>32974119
>>gets evidence and facts in his face

Anyone who types like that probably is underage, yes

>>32974120
See
>>32974101
For why you're an idiot.

>>32974134
Because using Wikipedia in a debate didn't tell everyone that already?

>>32974101
>>32974134
>zodiac mongoloids are e-celeb fags as well
It all comes together

>>32974133
Or maybe English isn't my mother language.

>>32974145
What?

>>32974149
wew lad, spotted the third worlder and/or underage.

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>>32974061
>>32974120
Of course everyone ignores these arguments.

Everyone's refusing to discuss them fully because they know it'll poke so many holes in so many arguments.

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>>32974143
>>32974145
>Avoiding arguments with detouring statements

You've already lost m8

>>32974166
See
>>32974134

>>32974166
Those two arguments are stupid because they are completely wrong. Red pandas and grizzly bears sent in the same family. Stop posting please.

>>32974181
Notice how the fag chose to ignore it?

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>>32974163
What if I'm German? I'm not but what if?

Saying foxes and dogs are the same is like saying niggers and humans are the same.

It just isn't right.

>>32974166
desu the only ones that I would say is a stretch of those listed is red panda vs grizzly and raccoons vs bears. I mean, dolphins are literally whales and cassowaries and ostriches are physically similar, even if they're different. Gamefreak doesn't into biology, you know. How many times have they made a mon change species after evolving? That should be enough to say that they care whether it LOOKS right whether than IS right.

>>32974185
*Aren't

>>32973829

this shit again.

id rather wanna know what would be required to prove to the zodiacfags that its bullshit. coz for all we know, they could make the next fire starter a glove compartment, and theyd still say its >insert closest thing from chinese zodiac< just done in a more subtle way..

whereas fr the opposite you jsut need one deviation, which we pretty much had already

>>32974185
Maybe that one's flawed. But I like how you're also ignoring the other two.

>>32974205
>>32974163

Neat, /pol/ is here.

>>32974217
/pol/ is everywhere these days anon. . . These are sad times. . .

>32974205
This bait isn't even worth a (U)

>>32974213
For me personally, as soon as they put one that doesn't obviously pass, I'll believe the zodiac is gonezo. That means Zebra is in for horse because only people who care about semantics would say it's not a horse, that means chinchilla is in for rabbit because they're close enough and it's interesting, but giraffe isn't going to work for horse, and rhino isn't going to work for bull. It has to be something that a kid would be able to peg as that. Just like how kids call foxes dogs and shrews mice.

Well. . . Since everyone's pissed already. . .

Fossil Fighters and Fossil Fighters Champions are better than anything Pokemon has ever put out.

Nobody except Torbo zoologists will tell you that dogs can't be exchanged for foxes. The general consumer base doesn't care and neither should you.

>>32974244
I have never once met a kid who calls a fox a dog.

But that may be because the only kids I interact with are my coworkers' kids. Having a zoologist as a parent usually means they know a thing or two.

>>32974217
Of course they are, they invite themselves to any shitstorm, it's their native habitat. It's half the reason they're /pol/. They aren't actually racist so much as just thrive on flaming and shitpost-tier conflict.

>>32974262
To most kids a fox is as close to a dog as a wolf.

>>32974247
That's 100% right though

>>32974275
My nig

>>32974266
They also come in non-/pol/ flavors, as seen here
>>32974247

>>32974284
>implying im from /pol/
Nah nigga. /v/

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>This thread

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>>32974312

>>32974312
A youtuber came to post his own face, what's next Gwen poster?

>>32974325
Thanks anon. Been lazy with my Jaredposting lately.

Can't be fucked to go through the effort of opening ps

>>32973829
>at 8/12 or 66.6% of the possible zodiac animals will people finally lighten up and realize people at GF include leaps in their psuedozoological magical cartoon monster endeavors

They are all over the board really. Hedgehog > Glyptodon
2 woodpeckers > 1 toucan/ 1 falcon Seels to Sea lions
Shrews to Badgers etc.
It will never be enough, people always wanna shit on headcanons until it is put in writing and forcefed to them in a red pill of truth. Until than 66.6% of them can be Zodiac and the delusional anons will be on here blaming Satan

>>32974247
What could Gamefreak learn and incorporate from Fossil Fighters?

For instance, Difficulty settings and Quest Logs are things in most rpgs, and in need of copying.
Multiple save files as well but there may be technological limitations since most of that space is probably used for box storage. And they're not incentivized to fix it because Bank is a "fix" that makes extra money.

>>32974292
>NON-/pol/ flavors

>>32974354
By that logic all 12 could be zodiac and they still be in denial.

>>32973857
I'm more excited about the snake and rabbit.

A snake in the colors of the Fire-Types? Yes. please.

>>32973904
Foxes are canids, retard.

>>32974398
>>32973884
Mah nigga

>>32974393
I feel that in gen 12 that will be the case 2bh. Just because of Delphox, Typhlosion, and whatever might be another slight fit - maybe a mule instead of a horse or something, idk.

>>32973829
All it takes is 1 really wrong one. You could be at 11 out of 12, then have horse replaced with elephant.

Until 100% proven it's just a theory, and once it's proven it won't be debated anymore. Like fairy type or gen 5 starter leak.

that said I am really psyched for fire Ox minotaur because all final evo fire starters are bipedal

>>32974367
They already ripped triple and rotation battles

>>32974459
It won't be "proven" even if we get all 12 though like >>32974438 said. People will complain and argue for years down the line.

>>32974460
So that awful idea wasn't even their own? What hacks. If you're gonna plagiarized you should at least know what's worth stealing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox

You're welcome

>>32974483
You didn't read the thread.

>>32974483
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canidae

Guys. Look at the chart they have. Look at the distance between dogs and foxes. It's very close, but it's also not exact, and that's what makes people argue about this whole theory.

also Cyndaquil is an ambiguous mammal; it is not exactly anything

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>>32974483

>Everyone itt implying the dog/fox debate is the only thing wrong with this 'theory'

>>32974558
>hwocares

>>32973984
The "enough" part, because where you draw the line around "enough" is completely arbitrary. Other people could say it ISN'T close enough and they'd have just as much of a point.
I personally happen to believe the zodiac theory, but since there is no clear-cut standard of "close enough" you ARE basically saying "a fox is a dog because I said so" whether you're correct or not.

>>32974566
Don't you dare to bring the mouse.

The people here who say the zodiac theory isn't real are wrong. You really think its still a coincidence after 7 gens? Get a grip. If you're saying foxes aren't dogs then you're trying too hard to sound smart. Of course we know foxes aren't dogs but they're still canids. Gamefreak would easily use a dog-like animal to continue the tradition. They aren't sticklers for the Chinese zodiac.

Just shut the fuck up and enjoy the Fire/Fighting mule we're getting in gen 8.

>>32974473
mhm. Well, it actually worked decently well the way Fossil Fighters did it.

There was safe zones and attack ranges. Pokemon just has three Pokemon at once and that's it.

>>32973841
Deniers need to read this
>>32974213
>>32973904

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>>32974576
>ignoring the effort I made in that Chansey cause I misspelled a word

>>32974644
>Expecting praise for drawing a half circle with eyes

wew lad

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>>32974659
Stop.

>A fox and a dog are the same thing because they're in the same taxonomic family--Canidae.
>Humans and Orangutans are in the same taxonomic family--Hominidae.
>Therefore, Oranguru is a human Pokémon.
Logic.

Also, the argument was whether or not a fox is a dog, not whether both are classified under the same taxonomic family. A fox is not a dog. A dog is not a fox. Not all members of Canidae are dogs. If you're going to stretch the Zodiac connection to family, why not go further? Are they going to be the same thing just because they're mammals? Chordates? Eukaryotes? Where do you draw the line? If you make it arbitrarily any clade or classification beyond Genus, you're going to have people disagreeing with you.

I personally think the Zodiac is a very vague template they may refer to if they want, but I don't think they're actually trying to accurately represent anything in particular.

>>32973829
Christ. This nonsense again... why the hell would Japs use the Chinese zodiac?

>>32974678
Half
Circle

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>>32974712

>>32974701
Because of a lot of stolen mythology?
Japan was originally a Chinese colony after all.

>>32974740
T W O H A L F C I R C L E S W I T H E Y E S

>implying GF would only create a pattern for one of the starter pokemon
>implying GF would limit themselves to 12 fire starter lines
>implying that the designers of pokemon were told by GF that they had to base the fire starters on the zodiac
>implying that if this theory is true then when creating a dog fire pokemon they made a fox that more resembles a cat
>implying that GF would choose to design fire starters after the zodiac but only for them to have extremely loose connections to the zodiac animal they are based off
>implying that GF actually give this much of a fuck

>>32974740
Keep drawing your circles anon. They're almost as bad as my autism in that cap.

>>32974405
Did you even read the post you're replying to?

>>32974758
Tiger and cat

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>>32974752
You are over the fucking line, you heard me?

>>32974777
T H R E E H A L F C I R C L E S W I T H E Y E S

>>32974758
They should switch to ocean animals for fire starters in gen 13. A fire-type dolphin starter would be boss.

Salamander ≠ Dragon
Mouse ≠ Rat
Chimpanzee ≠ Monkey
Fox ≠ Dog

>inb4 close enough
If the designers would actually following the Chinese zodiac they wouldn't just use animals that are 'close enough'.

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>>32974797
I'm just holding back you know?

>>32974758
Well, there's also "ancient animals" for the Grass-types that is even more clearly true than the zodiac theory.

>>32974829
>if they were following the zodiac they wouldn't exercise artistic license
That's what I heard you day just now.

>>32973829
To actually answer OP's question instead of going off tangent discussing whether foxes are dogs or whether Cyndaquil is a rat or not: NO.
Until all doubts are cleared away, until all 12 of the zodiac are made into Fire starter, this theory is still just that - a theory. You "might be correct" than not, but it is not "confirmed" until the twelfth and the last one are done.

Also, I find it ironic that OP himself consider there are two that "doesn't fit". Usually people like you try to argue that it does fit, just not normally.

>>32973852
If gen 8's fire starter is a moose, they're gonna say it's the closest thing to an Ox or Horse... they will never let up; laugh at them or ignore them.

>>32973984
Yes, Lions are a variety of Jaguar for a 100% fact.

>>32973969
We've had 11 Reptiles you insolent dunce, birds are dinosaurs!

>>32975135
because of u fine sir, im going to make the 12th fire-starter be a Spider, not a Snake XD good job

>>32975135
Not a theory; a hypothesis.

>>32977154
You know, you bringing that up got me thinking: who the hell made the rule that it has to be consecutive? I mean, it's not like GF would just stop at the twelfth game, provided Pokemon is still popular enough. In fact, if they do stop before the twelfth for whatever reason, would this whole thing be "inconclusive" or "false"?

>>32973829
Yes, I agree.

>>32973829
Sure. But it needs to be a CLEAR one - no "Oh a llama is close enough to a sheep" or "A chinchilla looks like a rabbit and both are rodents and what do you mean rabbits aren't rodents they so are!"

Needs to 100% fit the pattern in a way that can't be easily argued against

>>32974584
Fuck off with that shit, we already determined that Cyndaquil is considered the rat because artistic liberty. As far as Gamefreak is concerned, Cyndaquil fits Rat perfectly.

>>32977792
>As far as Gamefreak is concerned
Looks like we have a personnel from GF among us.

>>32977792
Not to mention the point >>32973918 brought up, with them deciding on the zodiac in gen 3 or late gen 2 rather than from the beginning.

>>32973829
>Gen 8 is a goat
>Gen 9 is a pika
>Gen 10 is a yak
>Gen 11 is a donkey
>Gen 12 is a mole lizard
The ride will never end.

>>32978089
I hope this is what they do just to troll people. I can't wait for another decade of zodiac arguments, unironically.

>>32974797
Wait, is that dugtrio?

>>32974829
You saying Charizard is not a dragon?

>>32977092
Dinosaurs are not reptiles!

>>32978119
Yeah, and owls are not birds.

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>>32974076

>>32973967
Take a jackal, dingo, coyote, or wolf

Compare their personalities
Compare their bone structures
Compare their physique

Now realize how stupid your argument sounds

>>32978165
Isn't that just a Facebook messenger popup?

>>32978147
Okay, so you've got me on Rowlett, but that still leaves Piplup and Torchic.

>>32973836
This. They're so fucking ugly there's no point in being excited anymore.

I unironically think Charizard was the last good looking fire starter. Maybe typhlosion too but there are some design choices I would change.

>>32974681
>I personally think the Zodiac is a very vague template they may refer to if they want, but I don't think they're actually trying to accurately represent anything in particular.
Exactly. That's what "zodiacfags" are saying.