Non-Pokémon monster franchises

Shouldn't you be posting this on /v/?

>>32934011
They didn't push the games enough, and the games weren't designed in the perfect way to breed popularity by word of mouth.

>>32934019
I guess I could
Figured Pokémon fans would have a better idea of it though

>>32934011
Not getting recognition they deserve, turn based RPG ones like Dawn/Dusk or Cyber Sleuth are great but no one still gives a shit.

>>32934011
Digimon is getting better meanwhile pokemon is getting worse

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>Non-Pokemon monster franchise
>Atlus releasing game faster than Gamefreak on a Nintendo console
>Each game is arguably better than the last
>Spin-offs can contend as their own sub-franchise.
What went right?

Frontier was a piece of shit that killed the franchise.

>>32934270
They doesn't make games for children when the most of their fanbase are +20 or so.

>>32934011
Tri was shit

Monster Rancher ended as far as I know. Really sad.

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The definition of "not aging well".

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>>32934011
Bullshit like this.

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Anyone remember Fossil fighters?
I love the first two. I'm hopping frontier did not kill the series and they will eventually make a proper sequel to champions. ;-;

>>32934019
We have threads for other monster franchises here all the time.

>>32934328
makes sense to me
wheres the problem?

>>32934315
>This got brought up a while back
>Anons play it again together
>Exploit the shit out of a lag glitch that massively duplicated items
>tfw I flooded the market with that stupidly expensive Turmac petpet, only for the account to get banned
>Kept my huge stockpile of extra Turmacs on another account just incase, and they still exist

Those were fun times.

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>>32934328
>Patamon could potentially become Myotismon

>>32934331
It's a dam shame they dropped the ball so hard. They actually were very fun, especially Champions (Zonga Zonga is still one of the coolest things I've seen in a video game). I still own both and planning on playing through them again.

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>>32934331
Never beat the first one but it was pretty cool, can't remember how the gameplay was but as someone who loves dinosaurs it was rad as fuck

here's spectrobes

>>32934011
Deviantart.
Also Japan seems to dislike it more than the west so...

>>32934355
Why they can make a evolution like "1 evolves to 2 and then evolves to 3".
They make "1 evolves to 2.a - 2.b - 2.c - 45.a"

>>32934380
it's branched evolution like real life, it's more like they're becoming a new species rather than just growing up like it is in pokemon

>>32934380
because then you get the boring shit Pokemon hasn't really changed since day 1.

Why do you think everyone was losing their shit when they thought the Sun/Moon starters were going to have branching evo paths?

>>32934411
Because Decidueye, Incinearoar and Primarina are shit.

>>32934424
>Decidueye is a good idea, just with a bland design
>Incineroar is a good idea, just with a REALLY bad design and typing
>Primarina is actually really shit in idea and design

Grass had the least flaws, but it's still pretty flawed. A ghost starter is a nice change at least.

>>32934357
Aw man i wish i was there. Any screencaps?

>>32934411
>Why do you think everyone was losing their shit when they thought the Sun/Moon starters were going to have branching evo paths?
Because it meant more pokemon, not because people want a clusterfuck like digivolution. Everyone agrees the franchise could use a few shake-ups, but changing the way evolution works is not one of them.

>>32934475
>A selkie water starter is a shit idea
I often forget how shitty /vp/'s taste is.

>>32934479
No screencaps, but plenty of stories. Though, I won't bog the thread down with them. Here's a summary though, from my perspective;

>Anons play Neopets again
>The site becomes a supreme laggy mess for weeks, duplication glitch found and easily replicated
>Anons duplicate tons of rare, expensive, and valuable items
>Some get banned, but the site owners apparently don't know how alt accounts work. Nothing of value was lost.
>I managed to get my dream team in no time due to exceptional RNG (Ghost Shoyru, Alien Aisha on first lab zap, Maraquan Acara from the pound, and a Tyrannian Drake)

It was a fun trip to the past.

>>32934498
>Selkie
There's no selkie starter. Primarina is a seal mermaid.

>>32934328
>evolution tree with variable paths that depend on external influence similar to real life
>not liking this
Is it even possible to have worse taste?

>>32934536
Well it killed digimon so you tell me.

>>32934485
are you saying you don't want a Charmander that can branch evo into a Druddigon?
or a Chikorita branch into Tropius?

I don't think anyone actually said anything like that, but Digimon branch evos are sometimes frustrating. In the DigimonWorld games I remember getting angry that my digimons Ultimates were always fucked.

>>32934552
That's a fan line.... And it didn't kill digimon considering Cyber slueth has branched evolutions and it's the most well received digimon game

>>32934536
>similar to real life
And what we've learned is that mechanics that try to imitate real life tend to be tedious, add nothing of value and/or fuck you over.

>>32934571
That's because you sucked as a tamer. Its no one's fault you got sukamon but your own

>>32934328
Now, show me a Digimon game where the entire tree is available.

>>32934655
On a related note, is there even a system outside of PC that could even handle that?

>>32934077
Except where Dawn/Dusk almost required you to cheat down the encounter rate by half just to be playable. "Two steps, random battle," combined with a fairly slow battle system, many enemies per fight, and ridiculously maze-like areas made that game really fucking obnoxious. I loved the story, got way into making farm islands, and the battle system was really cool, but holy fuck missions were a nightmare most of the time, just because traversing the game was a chore.

>>32934270
Pokémon spin-offs are their own sub-franchises too. Unless we're saying they have to be like Persona level huge.

>>32935304
I think that's what he's implying. I mean come on, Persona got a fighting game and a rhythm game spin-off. Spin-offs of a spin-off.

>>32934361
You do realize Patamon has fucking bat wings on its head, right?

>>32934424
>>32934475
All three of the starters are great, you fucking autistic faggots.

>>32934331
I love Fossil Fighters, anon!

Frontier was just such a fucking mess, though. I too hope it didn't actually kill the franchise, though it's been so long...

>>32934517
Wait, did that happen recently? I thought the duplication glitch got patched like 8 years ago.

>>32935529
Last year, yeah. Due to the lag, if you kept trying to move something, it would both move and not move. It would make a duplicate of whatever you tried to move, but only when you got an error during the heavy lag at night.

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>>32934011
>What went wrong?
Absolutely nothing.

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>>32935544
>TFW stopped frequenting the site last year
>TFW could have stayed longer and used the glitch to get my dream team
It hurts

>>32935560
It's okay, the threads kept getting deleted even though it was proper discussion. Finding the threads alive enough to participate in was a challenge. You can still get your dream team; just use Cheat Engine and play the games for max score. Just don't get the top score every week, that's gonna get you banned fast. (Speaking from experience after getting 20 first place trophies in one day)

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>>32935555
Confirmed

>>32935555
At least Rasielmon looks amazing, this thing is more furbait than Renamon

>>32935582
Is the stock market still viable or should I just stick to games?

>>32935623
It's been a long time, I don't remember. I just cheated the games and got billions every week over maybe 2 hours or so every other day.

>>32934011
Pokemon did things well- they had the show airing during saturday morning cartoons, and the games spread pretty well by word of mouth (not to mention being on a nintnedo platform- the most popular with young children) But I think what sold it over anything was that it was simple. It was a simple concept with a simple goal (gotta catch em all!) and the games were easy enough for kids to pick up and get into with little effort. It had great accessibility in almost all aspects.

Digimon was different. Even though it was a popular tamagotchi spinoff, when the anime started up, it told a progressive story- great for older kids and a cult following, but if you came in midway through the show, maybe you'd be put off if you didn't know what the kids were looking for or why they were on their quest. The games were just all over the map though. One of the first and probably its 'biggest' popularity-wise (at the time of course) was Digimon World which took a lot of patience, attention to detail and very probably some sort of guide. It wasn't a game to just pick up and hop into.

>>32934328
The branching paths is a cool aspect, but the killer is that there's fuckall consistency to it. There's no set number of digimon anywhere, ever, and a evolution paths are just slapped together almost at random for different games. Not to mention the myriad recolors being passed off as individual digimon

>>32934574
>the most well received digimon game
It's not like that's an achievement, anon.

>>32934536
>evolution tree with variable paths that depend on external influence similar to real life
Which means that you actively have to metagame or do nonsenical things to not have a completely fucked 'mon. There's a reason FF ll is considered shit, you know.

>>32934011
Nothing went wrong with Digimon. The anime is miles ahead of Pokemon's

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Honestly, who the fuck thought Fossil Fighters Frontier would be a good idea?

>Change the overall look of the vivosaurs. Gone is the goofy, cartoony look out of all of them. Some like Zino become irrecognizable
>Take out about half of the available vivosaurs from Champions. From 150~ to 70~
>Fucking cars
>Roaming vivosaurs seem like a cool concept, until it turns out they can interrupt you in the middle of a fossil cleaning
>The fighting system, dear fucking hell, the fighting system. Gone is the simple rotation style from the first two games, now you have to deal with an entirely new system
>You can't control an entire team anymore. You're stuck with one vivosaur, and the remaining two slots are AIs
>That English theme song

The more I think about it the more I think Frontier did fucking kill the series

>>32934011
People kept fucking, and kids became more and more inbred, so the popular opinion soon became that Pokémon is the only franchise worth pandering.

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>>32936335
It sure did, friend. It sure did.

>>32935805
I hope that you're enjoying the last gems that Digimon sells like Hunters, Appmon and Tri.

>>32934011
>Inconsistent game mechanics few very few similarities
>the death of Fox Kids took the show with it, and you'd be lucky if you got to see Frontier
>Not only that, but going from Tamers to Frontier felt jarring

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I enjoyed the-this one a lot.

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Why did Golem have a Nazi helmet?
Why was the wolf named Tiger?
What the ever loving fuck were Mochi and Sweezo based off of?
UNLOCK YOUR DICKS

I'm just mad we're never getting DQM Joker 3 Pro

>>32934282
This

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>SMT
Persona 3 happened and then everything went to shit

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>>32934270
>IV Better than Nocturne or SJ
Nigger what are you smoking?

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>>32936335
I will never forgive them for Frontier. The first to games were fun

>>32934536
I like it in Digimon, but people's problems with it are that you get nonsensical convergent evolutions, evolutions that have very little to do with their prior forms, Digimon that have a really clear family tree but can also evolve outside of it for some reason, etc.

Pokémon in comparison is very simple and logical. It fits in Digimon because they're digital so anything is possible and the amount of care you have to take fits well with the digital pet theme more than the monster battle theme of Pokémon.

I would like more divergent evolutions in Pokémon but convergent evolutions and crisscrossing family trees would make no sense.

>>32934011

Lack of an animated series that showcases ALL of the monsters
Lack of a consistent mascot/protagonist

>>32936965
>SMT
>mentions fucking Persona
>With a Raidou image
Fuck you too

>>32936977
Gameplay wise it is, everything else bar boss battle theme is crap.

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>>32935560
>got most of my dream pet the vanilla method
>never got that Maraquan Grarrl I wanted
>Traded away my Maraquan Shoyru because of reasons
>All my friends moved on with their lives and I still shitpost on 4chan

do I only exist to suffer?

>>32937000
Trips of truth

Honestly, if it weren't for the reduction of vivosaur variety and the shitty new battle system I would have given the game a chance. Some of the redesigns were absolute bullshit but others were cool.

Rest in fucking pieces, Fossil Fighters. May one day a dinosaur-themed mon game come out to fill your absence.

>>32934536
>he believes that all species have a common ancestor

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>>32934011
Making fun of Digishit is like making fun of a retarded boy. It seems pointless to do, and you feel sorry for him.

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>>32938079
Daily reminder:
Incest is canon in Digishit.

>>32934370
I dig the designs, but they're probably just too Japanese for their own good.

>>32934011
Digimon: Great animu(mostly), terrible games across the board.

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>>32934328
Somebody needs to make a Digimon version of this picture.

Is Yokai Watch's grip on Japan finally over?

>>32937514
I don't even mind that you do the excavations on cards and shit. Why would they go for those designs? It is a series about resurrected dinosaurs turned into Pokémon! This a case of trying to fix what is not broken.

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>>32938145
It's not the best, but here you go.

>>32938232
is this a Digimon frontier reference?

>>32938262
No, it's a proper start and finish to a digimon's line. Poyomon (the goofy ghost) can become Seraphimon (left).

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>>32938096
You look at this thing and tell me it isn't fuckawesome

>>32938033
But they do.
Whether that common ancestor is a bit of bacteria, God, or a mad robot scientist who lost his alka seltzer tablet changes nothing.

>>32938287
The grey version of this is cooler. It was my starter in Digimon cyber

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>>32938312
Eh. The red one looks more Orky, but I can see your point. Both are nice.

>>32938503
after using this bad boy for awhile, i have to say, i fell in love with it. both are indeed very nice

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>>32938145

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>>32938312
>Had one in cybersleuth
>Digivolved it to Rusttyranomon
>It actually dealt less damage because Pierce attacks were broken as fuck
>tfw de-evolved it and kept using it the rest of the game
>It kept up with all sorts of Megas and Burst Modes and shit

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>>32938559
I hope Rust's better in Hacker's Memory

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>Nin Nin Games STILL hasn't even said they received the Ver. 20th Digital Monsters, much less shipped it.

FUCKING

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>>32934011
Digimon fan here. I can tell you exactly what went wrong.

Pokemon succeeded because by design, the games forced you to socialize. You wanted to complete your Pokedex, but you only had Blue? Better make a friend who has Red. Forcing that community aspect into it helped prolong interest and give Pokemon a competitive scene.

Digimon games are largely played solo, and only the early ones had multiplayer options; Next Order, which came out not long ago, has no multiplayer at all. Also, Pokemon games are always on portable consoles, while Digimon have almost always been on home consoles. If you wanted to fight your Digimon in DW1, you had to go to your friend's place with your PlayStation memory card.

How the two brands evolved since they first came out is pretty close to Mario games vs. Sonic games; Pokemon (Mario) refined what was already good while adding new stuff, while Digimon (Sonic) kept trying to remake itself into a bunch of wildly different things in order to stay relevant, never truly honing in on what people actually liked about it.

>>32938568
A proper Mega for based cutesy Tyrannomon!

>>32938950
But that's no longer true. Digimon has two main types of games that it's constantly refining while Pokemon has stagnated and declined in design.

>>32938971
So like a
Metal Greymon (Vaccine) -> War Greymon
Master Tyranomon -> {This thing?}

>>32938985
But the damage has been done. People now have the idea in their head that the like Pokemon and hate that copycat Digimon that wasn't even very good without properly sampling their taste.

It isn't there yet, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if watching Pokemon shit the bed and stagnate in it, and seeing how well Yokai did against it hasn't inspired Digimon to step its game up. Maybe actually get on the radar.
Then again, Appmon isn't exactly inspiring either.

>>32938950
So based on this Digimon World Dawn/Dusk is the idealized form of Digimon?

>>32939021
Well Pokemon in the west was a miracle. It never had any right to be the craze that it was. It's impossible to have ever tried to achieve that. Now in Japan that's a much different story. Appmon seems to be picking up in popularity as it goes on.

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>>32939029
Very close. I'd say the ideal Digimon game would be somewhere between Dawn/Dush and Cyber Sleuth.

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*blocks your path*

>>32939080
Seriously fuck you

>>32937277
Did you mean "while i still avatarfag on 4chan"

>>32934287
They did the Devil Children subseries during the time of Gens II and III...as kid-friendly as SMT gets anyway. The anime seemed to be SOMEWHAT less tragic than the games.

>>32934328
Half of that isn't even canon.

>>32939038
Appmon's TV show is really good and the 3DS game is pretty good. The designs also show a strong understanding of Digimon and reference all kinds of them in their designs while still having their own "user-friendly" feeling to Appmon compared to their "fight to survive" counterparts.

Only real issue is that because of convergent evolution it is extremely linear so far.

>>32936521
bitch don't you dare diss monster rancher 1, 2 and the anime and the monsters' old designs
egyptian headdress
mistransliteration of rygar possibly combined with taiga
a snack called sakuramochi, suezo's probably based on a yokai or some shit

>>32939141
Either way, Appmon's definitely an improvement over Hunters.

To all those lucky enough to be unaware, Hunters is to Digimon what Best Wishes was to Pokemon, except much worse.

>>32939159
Decolore Islands arc, but instead the group consists of a Youngster as the new character who idolizes Ash, Ash himself in a half-mentor role and a reformed Trip.

>>32939080
I think its designs like this and the multiple choice evolution routes that really messed Digimon up in the long run.

Pokemon designs are so much more simpler, and while you might get one or two wearing clothes, or another holding an item its not born with or an excessive amount of detail, usually the designs stay pretty basic. Minimum color palette, a lot of simple shapes and a really easy to understand evolution concept. Not every single person who picks up a pokemon game is a vper or a smogon/competitive freak, lots are just there for the simple aspect of an adventure with a team of magical animals.

Digimon is sort of all over the place, with mecha designs, varying artist designs and a lot more bat crazy shit like chains, zippers guns and junk.

Its choices and world lend it a lot more interesting of a story line which is why the anime wasn't strictly a pure advertisement. And while some designs could be considered a lot more bad ass in design, its not often what people are exactly what your common gamer might be looking for. Pokemon keeps it simple and mostly carries a friendly atmosphere, while digimon takes darker more dynamic atmosphere which might make it harder to take seriously considering you'll usually start off with a pink fluff ball of some kind.

Pokemon just gave the more straight forward monster collecting feel and its probably why it ended up dominating the monster catcher market. Which for me is actually a bad thing, since it means that GF is unchallenged and basically doesnt need to put as much effort in its games, instead of having to compete with other titles and really buckle down to deliver a solid, finely tuned product.

>>32939195
That one in particular is particularly genius though. It looks like a reasonable extension of the Ogremon family, but it's got a SkullGreymon sword hilt.
Guess what the two most common ways to get to this guy are?

>>32939314
No idea. Im afraid I dont really know much of anything about digimon, though i did see the first 9 episodes of the first season thanks to my local VHS rental place when I was a kid.

The issue I see is that Digimon has many damned various concepts of evolution, The design of things is heavily saturated in the 90's and for games, most do a rather odd form of paths and from those that I have played... It feels over complicated and tedious to get the partner that you want. I can understand and explain how different Digimon can change into another due to the accumilation of Data.

Pokemon is simple with few 'hard' evolutions. Some stick at one stage, some have 3... All digimon seem to have atleast 6 stages of forms and those that don't have one just never discovered the next stage.

>>32934331
I heard the reason Frontier was so different was because the franchise was bought out.

>>32939561
Frontier was the gen3 in digimon.
Some love it
Some absolutely hate it

>>32939586
I think Frontier was more of a departure than Gen 3 ever was.

>>32939397
I don't think Titamon existed during Adventure's run in 1999.

>>32939586

I guess since Season 2 was more Season 1

I just feel like it didn't get the core idea down and had some really fucking hatable characters. Digimon appeals to the 'Partner/Friend' aspect for most of it and just turning into the Digimon is lame because the only shit we got was Bokomon and Neemon

WHO THE EVER FUCKING CHRIST LIKED THOSE TWO!?

>>32939601
I feel like Bokomon and Neemon just rubbed "Remember when Digimon were you friends?" in our faces too much. If it had just been a group of strangers who have new powers and had to get along in a world of unusual creatures it might have been pretty cool.

I just felt like Frontiers was on rails (inb4 train digimon) and the world never felt alive. It was just from one disconnected place to another.

>>32939397
>>32939397
The answers are Skullgreymon and Digimon "around" Ogremon.

>>32939601
Neemon is cute

>>32939639
CORONAMON WHEN? PUT FUCKING APOLLOMON IN YOU FUCKS. WHY DID THAT GAY FUCKING LOLI GET INTO CYBER SLEUTH?! WHERE IS KOH?!

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>>32934552
>he thinks digimon is dead

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>>32939676
But anon Digimon is dead that's why it's celebrating its 20th anniversary

>>32939625

I can agree with that, But I found Bokomon and Neemon just being annoying tag alongs that explained stuff a lot and were rather annoying. Like, Jar Jar Binks tier and I am one of the few that can stand and LIKE the first star wars movie.

I have never attempted Data Squad since, Fusion was good from what I have seen of it but I still prefer Season 1 and 2 so much that me and friends are working over how a Tabletop of that would work along with missed opportunities for ideas like a Plague Doctor 'Docmon' or a Arabian Lizard Knight with a giant scimitar 'Scimimon'

>>32939693
Bokomon was the guide and neemon was comedy relief

>>32939693
>me and friends are working over how a Tabletop
Oh you're that guy. You mentioned this last time. Data Squad is worth watching imo. Pretty fun.

>>32939711
What? Data squad was good in the begging and at the end but the mid way point was terrible

>>32939648
It is in the 20th Digital Monster in one of the second wave guys and might be added in HaMe because a lot of the "related species" guys like Lunamon and Grademon are being added. Sayo is generally more popular than Koh, and Digimon is pretty random over crossover appearances since a lot of games are ambiguous over continuity. Like how Digimon World 2 has elements that suggest being in Digimon World's future along with the very different Re:Digitize and -Next 0rder- who have stronger direct ties. Or how Ryo's backstory ties into two anime series while not quite gelling with either, or various games have anime characters show up in side events despite them being native to different universes.

>>32939730
Dont forget in dusk and dawn there's anime and manga cross overs and in vtamer he cross overs with everyone. Oh and hunters had that big crossover and so did the adventure game for psp

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this game was fun

>>32939711

Idea kinda floundering since a few of us have never tried it but just been kicking around for fun in the Digimon wiki. Sitting on where to start, What Rookies to consider to lay out... Should we cross out the ones in the show so we can have more variety. It probably might get forgotten, But I am curious on games.

What are the Vita games like, Similar to Dusk/Dawn? Or do I get a randomly selected Rookie that goes along it's own path so I can say get a Black PawnChessmon and get a QueenChessmon later on?

>>32939739
Do you have that image with all mcs across different media?

>>32939790
Cyber Sleuth and it's sequel are like Dusk and Dawn. Next Order (which never got an English Vita release, only PS4) is more like Re:Digitize and World 1.

>>32939794
I do not and isn't it in Spanish anyway?

Not enough cute

>>32939009
No, no Mastertyrannomon. It's Tryranomon->MetalTyranomon->That thing. You might be thinking, "but dartyranomon evolves into metaltyranomon!", but you have to remember that it's supposed to be an equivalent to the originally virus-exclusive Metalgreymon (which evolves from the vaccine greymon), and if you look at the actual designs, MT features are much closer to Tyrannomon's than DT's (the hands, for example)

Pikmin's good, but I don't think it's a Monster game.