>Ice should resist Water!

>>32923684

Scald was a mistake

>>32923684
Considering these Ice-type pokemon are essentially "water-bending" specialists they can obviously freeze water at will, usually from the air. Condensating and freezing water vapor to use attacks. Water types can pull the water from the air (likely a sci-fi magic organ within) however they usually lack the inherant ability to use ice wothout being taught or reaching a certain stage in their lifecycle. This ability is a natural one for Ice types. Ice should be a stronger Water, much like Steel is a stronger Rock.

Gonna go ahead and remind everyone that it doesn't matter what temperature the water is, even if you ran your sink on the lowest possible temperature it would still very quickly melt the ice.

Gonna also remind everyone that putting water in the fridge is not he same thing. THAT would be akin to using an Ice-type move on Water, not the other way around.

Anyway, proceed.

>>32923731
So Ice STABs should have a 100% Freeze chance when used on Water-types.

Good to know.

>>32923721
Adding to that, their body temperatures are supposedly so cold they would instantly freeze incoming water regardless of the waters temperature, much like throwing boiling water in -15•F air it turns to powder before it even hits the ground. Ice types are noticeably resistant to Hail and Powder-y conditions.

I imagine that Ice was originally concieved like this, "deep" sea monsters like Cloyster, Dewgong, and Lapras have bodies resistant to cold temperatures and a mastery of the water that something like a Water duck and a Yokai/hippo simply don't being warm blooded and semi-aquatic

Most Ice-types aren't literally made of Ice. Are you implying that a Weavile would melt if you ran room temperature water on it?

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>>32923684
Shouldn't they be neutral?
>Water can melt Ice
>Ice can freeze Water

>>32923754
Yes, it's the Wicked Witch of the North.

>Hey man, how's my Cryogonal doing?
>Oh, it's doing great! I sent it to train under a waterfall to train since its Defense is rather low.

>>32923731
What you are failing to acknowledge is the air temperature being a big factor as well, you are doing this in a 75• room and expecting the same results of a negative temperature weather. In your version of this, you would at best dimple the surface ice and reinforce the surrounding area of ice. Ice types won't melt even in the desert in all depictions thus far.

>>32923755
At the VERY least, yes.

Though >>32923745 is a really good idea tbqh

>>32923745
>Good to know.

You say that sarcastically like it wouldn't be a good idea, but yeah, I 100% agree with that. Why not? Electric types are immune to Paralysis, Ghost types can't be trapped with moves that don't let you escape, and when a move that has a 10% chance to Freeze is used on a Water type, it should instead have a 30% or even 50% chance.

It makes a lot of sense and would be very useful to Ice.

>>32923805
>wanting 100% freeze chance on anything
Maybe if freeze was nerfed to oblivion.

Water and ice should resist each other both ways. Ice types aren't a static ice cube but rather a constant source of cold temperature like a freezer. When water attacks hit ice types it freezes due to the constant artic temperatures theyou constantly produce. Ice attacks hitting water would be more like the above image. A set amount of cold that will likely melt when introduced to a constant supply of room temperature water

>>32923827
>ice types constantly produce cold
So then why do some of them have fur to ward off the cold? Because, you know, that's a thing. Ice types aren't floating blocks of ice for the most part. That's just Regice.

>>32923815
Punishing Water types for using Ice moves bette than Ice types NEEDS to happen. Doubling freeze effect ratios would help even. But Ice few claims to fame and their weather bonuses suck, they have no reasonable allies. It's all bad news my friend. Something must be done and it must be extreme for them to have any true usability or presence in the future meta

>>32923684
>Hot water will melt ice
Who would of guess?!

>>32923812
Honestly I think it would be fun. Ice needs more benefits as a STAB over just being coverage anyway, and inflated rates of inflicting the single most broken status in the game to one of the best types in the game is a great way to do it.

Then again, most (or at least many) Water-types carry Scald, so it's not as big of a nerf/buff as it seems.

>>32923848
Yeah but that buffs Water-types more than Ice-types. Frankly I think everyone should just give up and move on. The amount of threads we have on this topic is ridiculous and nobody ever agrees anyway.

>>32923838
Insulation works two ways Anon. They can keep cold in as well

>>32923864
>insulation keeps in the cold
>but they have fur to ward off the cold
Doesn't make sense.

>>32923715
Scald should be a Water/Fire move similar to Flying Press

>>32923838
Because the creature they are based off has a lot of fur. And likely we are putting way too much thought into a typing chart that is really just about simple element ideas in general.

I mean if we wanted to get technical boiling water or high pressure water should both be able to hurt grass types. And extreme heat can evaporate water. It's unlikely typing choices go that deep into consideration

>>32923855
Additionally Freeze status could be reskinned to be like Protect for all types other than Fire and Ice until they thaw. Allows time to set up once, maybe twice for a sweep. I don't believe this to be necessary but it could be a solution to overpowered Ice-types (we're not lucky enough to see that day anyways)

Ground types can learn a shit ton of Rock type moves and no one complains about that

>>32923721
I am gonna hit you in the head with my strong water

>>32923880
oh (You)... They are not Ice types because they are protected from the cold, they are the cold for all intents and purposes. Mammalian ice types are not going to scrap fur in their design and use frozen hair-like icicles as a coat. That would be absurd. They have a familiar and easily recognizable trait we associate with cold weather animals. If it was heat based then we would find that Fire types in all snowy routes, but we don't. They cannot ward off the heat even with internal combustion or w/e. Heat is not enough

>>32923684

what about dark types? they are shit

Oh boy another retard with the ice should resist water meme.

Learn about specific heat retard, then be thankful that water isn't SE on ice.

>>32923919
Strong water=resilient water=solid water=condensed form of fucking Water.

This shit is basic. Yes Ice expands when it freezes but it is ultimately tougher.

Fighting types like to break solid materials regardless of the composition. That should be evidence enough

>>32923963
You take that back, Dark-types are the cutest.

>>32923964
>applying science to a world of magic

>>32923964
WARNING!:
Anon is standing in certifiable Sci-fi magic territory.


A wonderful place where water is pulled from thin air even in deserts. And flame and electric are stored away inside organs, most saliva can turn septic without illness etc.

Stop bullshitting yourself. This is a fame about magic animals not hard empirical science

>>32923935
>PILOSWINE is covered by a thick coat of long hair that enables it to endure the freezing cold. This POKéMON uses its tusks to dig up food that has been buried under ice.
nice headcanon
please keep using asinine assumptions, I'm sure Gamefreak will eventually take notice after 20 or so years

>>32923684
The ice type can actually mean "cold type" besides "solidified water type". Many of its pokemon have nothing to do with ice but rather they're creatures associated with cold temperatures. Same way as some water types just happen to be aquatic and develop water-elemental powers, but otherwise have nothing to do with tides, downpours, etc.

As types are overarching elemental themes and don't focus on just the thing they're named after, it is pretty safe to assume that ice type pokemon have a set of elemental powers associated with cold temps and freezing. Sheer cold is literally absolute zero: the move. It should ve very easy for an ice type to freeze down an incoming water pulse (water resistance that the type should have), or absorb all the energy from a water mon leaving them frozen (freeze dry). It should also be relatively easy for a strong water type to tank an incoming ice move (ice resistance that water already has) with their high specific heat, or melt down elemental ice types with hot water (scald).

Then there's the argument against ice resisting water. The most common form is "Hurr durr if I put ice cubes in a sink at room temp and throw room temp water at them, they'll melt, ice cannot resist water durr". Water does indeed have a very high specific heat; it will cool down hot things and melt down cold things, and the same way, it takes a lot of energy to both warm it up or freeze it. However, it has limits: you can melt ice cubes in a sink in your house, but if you try the same thing in the north pole during winter out in a hail storm, is the water that will freeze.

The most logical thing for the type chart would be >>32923755. Both neutral against each other. However, for balance purposes, considering ice is shit defensively, the best thing would be to have water resist ice but freeze-dry being SE on it, while having ice resist water but scald being SE on it.

>>32924003
Heat does not help in cold weather in this setting, warm blooded creatures like Sandslash and Ninetails already had a coat of fur. Ninetails didn't exactly bulk up either. The only types showcased alongside Ice in snowy environments have been Rock, Grass*, and Fighting types, apparently Pine trees and Hard asses are immune to ice regardless of type but Fire is absolutely none existent despite it being a seemingly obvious advantage

>>32924076
>but Fire is absolutely none existent despite it being a seemingly obvious advantage
Fire needs 3 things to happen: fuel, oxygen and heat. Take one of those out and your fire is gone or cannot be started at all.

>>32924076
>It aimed for the top but got lost and ended up on a snowy mountain. Being forced to endure the cold, this Pokémon evolved and grew fur.
Crabominable's Dex entry. It grew for to endure the cold... or so it could conserve body heat. Please keep spewing your headcanons, I'm sure it means something to someone.

>>32923684
I'm sure it was to balance type weaknesses out. If we have a certain type stronger than so many other types and vice versa then the meta gets wacked and need fixing.

>>32923684
>muh ice
>muh water
you faggots are the most annoying typefags, right up there with bugfags

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>>32923963
>dark types are the only good spammable type besides ghost
nice b8 shitlord made me reply

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>>32923964
i hope youre baiting cause OP was being sarcastic

>>32923815
Use it for something like Regice where it actually makes sense, like a move or ability,

>>32923752
>a Yokai/hippo
What now?

>>32923684
Water should be supper effective, it steals the temperature from Ice.

Nerf Dark and Fighting types more!

>>32923684
>My RPG about Animals and Monsters fitting into your pocket should be realistic

>>32923715
Git gud

>>32924007
Ice is just the cold type with a better name. Like how Fire isn't literally the fire type since many fire types aren't even on fire.

>>32923731
ICES TYPE REPRESENTS FROZEN TUNDRAS AND ARCTIC FROST NOT KITCHEN ICE CUBES YOU SHELTERED AUTIST LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

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>>32924472
Slowpoke is based on a Sazae-oni mixed with an otter or hippo from what I can tell

>>32923969
I am gonna stick you in the ass my strong water

>>32923684
How about a mechanic where it depends on temperature of the area you're in (including weather moves). Ex : Water v Ice in a Hot area/climate= Ice not very effective, Water v Ice in a cold area/climate = Water not very effective

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>Ice shouldn't resist Water!

>>32929191
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercooling

>>32929219
So then you admit defeat? Water loses to Ice.

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>ice should be weak to fire

>>32923815
>Thaws the same turn it was frozen
It already was

>>32929078
How about this:
Ice now resists
>Ground, Flying
Ice is now immune to
>Fairy
In addition, during Hail Ice takes half damage from Water and Fire moves.