SM is the worst entry in the series

>>32906933
>>shitty new Pokémon
>>the postgame sucks
Wrong.

>>32906933

Oh, a quake, a quake...
Say, it's all a big mistake!
Just feel the ground go up and down!
Oh, for heaven's sake!
How much more can we take?!
We thought that we had seen it all..
But this one still takes care!
The dirt...
The rocks...
And all those aftershocks!
It's just /vp
Moving on the way
Up of the
Several topics blocks!

>>32906933
>>small region with extremely watered down level design that has almost no complexity and puzzles

I know someone is going to call me a casual, but I almost prefer this. Fuck long water routes, and caves, and giant mazes of grass and ledges that force you down split paths and you have to climb a huge mountain again if you want to get to a specific point. I went back to play FR/LG and those team rocket warehouses are so fucking obnoxious.

That said, the routes are what make up like 80% of every game, that is what they need to somehow make more interesting. Make the trainers actually competent and have interesting teams instead of just having 3 metapods. Have sidequests on those roues or some shit

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>>32906981
Dungeons (wether they're actual caves or locations like Tin Tower or a Team Rocket hideout) are the most important part of Pokémon besides the Pokémon themselves. Getting through one of them or finding useful items or secrets inside them is always the high point of the adventure.

I hope some day Pokémon will have real dungeons that take 40-80 minutes to get through like in Zelda games.

>>32907010
>I hope some day Pokémon will have real dungeons that take 40-80 minutes to get through like in Zelda games.

yes, because GF is competent

>>32907010

Maybe I'm just impatient because I'm older and busy nowadays, but mixing random encounters or trainer battles with maze exploration is not what I call fun. I just want to try a new route and then constantly get interrupted, and actively get punished with random battles or repel wasting for not divining the correct route and having to explore

>SM is the worst entry in the series
that's not XY

>>32907010
>I hope some day Pokémon will have real dungeons that take 40-80 minutes to get through like in Zelda games.

A Zelda-esque dungeon adapted to be in a Pokémon would be orgasmic.

>>32907010
Maybe it's because I've never seen Pokemon games as an "adventure" but dungeons have always been the worst part of Pokemon for me.

>>32907161
>>32907193
You fuckers probably don't use potions and elixers the game gives you.

You probably run back to the pokemon center after every trainer encounter just to heal your minimally injured team

>>32906933
Cons:
>small region
The setting of islands could theoretically excuse that, maybe.
>with extremely watered down level design
When gen6 did the Veridian Forest reskin, compared to most of its other dungeons, the reskin was a harder dungeon. In other words, while this isn't new, it is a trend.
>that has almost no complexity and puzzles
The path to Tapu Bulu would have been a little harder if they didn't LITERALLY TELL YOU the answer RIGHT BY THE ENTRANCE.
>obnoxiously prominent story
The problem with the story is that the protagonist of the "story" won't obey the rules of the actual game.
>but no good writing to back up the immense amount of dialogue
If you were to add half a minute to a minute every cutscene of gen5 for close-ups and better graphics it would be WAAAYYYY worse.
>all new major auxiliary features are shit (Festival Plaza, Poké Finder, Pelago)
Festival Plaza is a nerfed Magnemite Avenue. Mostly out of the fact that Join Ave. was abusable.
PokeFinder I'll admit to not knowing about because my 3ds camera is on the fritz, but it sounds like something that should have been available in the post-game and opened up more mons.
PokePelego is fine. It's not extremely broken and while it's slower than gen6 EV training, for those of us that have lives to live outside of Pokemon, it's a way to keep advancing.
>shitty new Pokémon
Shitty compared to every Pokemon that comes before it will be a trend going forward. At this point in the series we have an established stable of very strong mons, and in order to get into that club a new Pokemon will have to be that much stronger than the rest of everything, probably throwing off the balance in-game.
>the postgame sucks
Catch these legendaries! You did? Good Jorb!

Looker quest took no time at all, and Delta Mission pretty much nothing either. GSC spoiled us by giving us a whole REGION for post-game, and nothing has stacked up since, nor will it ever.

>>32907332
I didn't use to, until I ran into actually good dungeons in gens 4+5.

>>32907169
XY is bad but at least didn't have cutscenes shoved up your ass every 10 minutes or 70% of the fucking trainers with 1 Pokemon or a godawful region.

SM is trash.

>>32906933
I'm the only person In the world that is upset because there are no more HM and I'm thinking dropping hte series because of this.

>>32907332
Why would I do that? That'd make the game incredibly tedious and cause me to spend even more time in an area I don't like.

>>32907392
>spoiler
I think you have autism anon

>>32907415
Uh, you don't?

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>>32906933
I disagree with all your cons excepting plaza

>>32907193
Why? Finding good hidden items or Pokemon is always nice. I can get the random encounters being annoying but repels do exist and nowadays they have that prompt so it's easy to keep using them without going through your bag.

>>32907428
eh, not that high

>>32906933
I'd still rate XY as worse than SM. SM has positive aspects to it, I think it has some enjoyable characters like Guzma, the music is a lot more memorable than in XY, and it has more postgame (even if the postgame still isn't good). SM just happen to be even worse to replay than XY because of the obnoxiously prominent story that you mentioned.
>>32906981
Anon I'm upset that your taste is what it is. Dungeons have always been the best part of Pokémon for me. I love going through long areas and caves, where you only have yourself and your Pokémon and no important NPC is going to interrupt you except possibly at the very end of the cave for a rival fight (shame SM fucked that last part up by making Lillie follow you all the way through the one long cave in the game constantly trying to spark conversation with you and putting a giant cutscene in the middle just because Lillie's crossing a fucking bridge)
>and giant mazes of grass and ledges that force you down split paths and you have to climb a huge mountain again if you want to get to a specific point
Well now you're pissing on my absolute favorite type of route design.

>>32906933
Cons:
>small region, watered down level design, NO UNDERWATER IN HAWAII, towns/cities boring and flat, lack of an interactive environment (cant sit down, clicking on things doesnt give you lore)
>The characters are all overdone and shoddy. Everything feels forced (the trainer's school congratulating you is a really good example), you are treated like a tard and a tool for Lillie
>game is ridiculous levels of easy, no xp share and no grinding at all I manage to become over leveled, even with a full team
>Pokemon are about 50/50 shit to good, but half of the good pokemon are first/second stage evos which become bad with the final evo (or at least they worsen. The mushroom is an example of this. Jangmo-o is an example of this. All the starters are an example of this)
>worst starters to date, with gen 5 competing but not quite coming even with the shittiness
>postgame sucks
>all new major auxiliary features are shit, except Pelago, but would be better if Pelago didnt entirely eliminate gen 6 training
>>32907193
The Pokemon games are literally about going on an adventure

Pros:
>No HMs
>Some new Pokemon are cool
>Graphics are better than gen 6 at least

>>32907392
If the 'rivals' of XY and xp share was removed, XY would be considered a decent game

Compared to SM, XY *is* a decent game

Hoenn still best region

no thats BW

>>32907498
Atleast gen 5 gets Contrary Serperior, unless USUM remove those shitty HA and chage them then these starters are even shittier.

>>32907513
Despise of everything and despise that gen VI got shafted in favor of SM, Kalos is a great region who had tons of possibilities, is my 2nd favorite region.

>Hoenn still best region

Sinnoh has almost everything that gen 3 Hoenn has and more.

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>>32907438
What I enjoy about Pokemon is choice. The way I build a team fit for me; how I choose to train them; whether to walk around that one trainer and come back to them or go straight for them - that and talking to different NPCs and seeing the little mini views they have on approaching their world is the stuff I like. When thrown into a dungeon I feel like I lose everything about that and have to start doing what the game wants me to in order to progress, but without any drive or purpose to doing so like a story would otherwise encourage me to do. I like water routes since they're so open and wide and I'm fine with cases such as Seafloor Cavern where the reason I'm going through is to stop the Teams. Dungeons for the sake of puzzles or prizes kill my will to keep going.

>>32907552
this, Sinnoh may be slow and have some pokedex troubles, but it has the best regional geography to date:
>Forested south
>Giant mountain range in the middle
>Tundra in the north
>Desert, Volcano, and Tropical area all in the upper right
>caves scattered about the region

>>32907552
Sinnoh level design is a step down from Hoenn.

>>32906933
Still not as bad as X and Y. Although SM had many cutscenes they were only packed in beginning, and the rest of the game was decent enough to balance that out.

XY on the other hand completely falls part after you beat the 3rd gym and just becomes a soulless empty game. There's no motivation to do anything because your rivals are god awful and the evil team is so un-threatening that they don't feel like an actual team at all.

>>32907929
Just moving around the maps, finding and exploring new locations should be more than enough motivation. Admittedly the level design in Kalos is weak, but it's still better than Alola.

>>32906933
Pelago is actually good though.

>>32907959
>game playing itself is good

>>32906933
>>No HMs
You could argue that the ride-system is worse than HMs as well.

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>>32907392
>I'm the only person In the world that is upset because there are no more HM and I'm thinking dropping hte series because of this.
no this is accurate for me. it used to be you use your bros to explore the world. now theres no exploration and you just call rando pokemon to do tedious... i don't even know what to call them. they aren't puzzles anymore. its just some watered down thing they included for no reason, when i would have preferred going back to exploring with my own team.
>>32907475
>Well now you're pissing on my absolute favorite type of route design.
i agree with this anon, its fun to find weird things tucked away in the game. like the martial arts master chilling in the north west corner of ruby/sapphire/emerald.

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>>32908468
>it used to be you use your bros to explore the world. now theres no exploration and you just call rando pokemon to do tedious... i don't even know what to call them. they aren't puzzles anymore. its just some watered down thing they included for no reason, when i would have preferred going back to exploring with my own team.

Seems than i'm not alone.

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>>32908468
>>32908523
I'm really not sure what the purpose for including ride Pokemon was when it comes to SM. The majority of Pokemon are redundant in my opinion- why does machamp, mudsdale, and tauros exist? they all do essentially the same thing- using their strength to overcome an obstacle. Herdier is different because it uses its smell to find items, and charizard is your flight alternative. It's likely just for flavour and to block off portions of the game until you unlock those helper pokemon, but still strange.

But I agree with you that helper Pokemon seem completely unrelated to you and your adventure. They appear in a puff of smoke and change the music and completely change the pacing of the area you were previously just walking through. You don't have any attachment to them, you may not even like the Pokemon itself, and (excluding surfing Pokemon like lapras) they seem unnecessary.

I think my real gripe with the HM system in the past is that they are very poor moves (again, excluding surf) that you just teach to an HM slaves that wastes a slot on your team. Perhaps instead it should not be tied to a HM move that you have to teach, but to the type of Pokemon you have on your team. Let someone who has a tentacruel be able to surf on it, or a boldore to use strength, or a primape to use rock climb, or drifblim use fly. It would make people build varied teams in terms of Pokemon physical shape and size.

>>32907578
Too bad it only did Coronet any justice.

>>32908669
>It's likely just for flavour and to block off portions of the game until you unlock those helper pokemon, but still strange.

That's exactly why it's done. What's so strange about it? Without HMs they need to moderate your progression somehow, and this seems like as reasonable a way as any.

>>32907959
Pelago is bad, though:
- Only way for planting berries, when both Hoenn and Kalos had both Berry Fields and Mulch (but at least here you don't have to waste money which you wouldn't use anyways)
- Is a big step down from Super Training, in Pelago each Pokémon have to do many sections to be fully EV Trained. Most sections last 30 minutes.
- In XY and ORAS you obtain Evolution Stones by doing Secret-Super Training, in SM you must wait a whole day and the stones you obtain are totally random. At least in XY you can try any time you want in the same day
- Pelago has an island that if you put eggs there they will hatch... in 2 or 3 days. Why add a hatching island if in front of the Nursery is a spot where you must use Tauros Charge, a Talonflame in your team, and spinning around many times?
- Pelago also has an island were you obtain both Poké Beans and new Pokémon. The only notable Pokémon you obtain in that island are Evolved Pokémon (Mismagius, Talonflame, etc.) and Pokémon that evolves by trading (Trevenant) but both groups are only available if you finish your game (aka defeat Kukui for the first time)

>>32909598
>Only way for planting berries, when both Hoenn and Kalos had both Berry Fields and Mulch
Pelago's way better.
>Is a big step down from Super Training, in Pelago each Pokémon have to do many sections to be fully EV Trained. Most sections last 30 minutes.
Personally don't care but Super Training is better.
>In XY and ORAS you obtain Evolution Stones by doing Secret-Super Training, in SM you must wait a whole day and the stones you obtain are totally random.
Still prefer Pelago. It was fucking annoying in Super Training.
>Pelago has an island that if you put eggs there they will hatch... in 2 or 3 days.
?
>Pelago also has an island were you obtain both Poké Beans and new Pokémon. The only notable Pokémon you obtain in that island are Evolved Pokémon (Mismagius, Talonflame, etc.) and Pokémon that evolves by trading (Trevenant) but both groups are only available if you finish your game (aka defeat Kukui for the first time)
Yes and? It doesn't make it bad.

>>32907392
>>32908468
Not having HMs isn't the end of the world for me but I agree that they weren't a bad thing. They were definitely more natural roadblocks than "hey my Stoutland is doing a thing on this really wide street fuck you come back later"
>>32908669
Mudsdale especially seems dumb to add to the game. There are NO areas that were blocked off by rocky terrain before the area where you get Mudsdale, so it doesn't open up the world at all like proper HM usage should. They got that shit right with Tauros and Melemele Island has a ton of small areas blocked by boulders, meaning you have reason to go back and run through said areas again after you get Tauros, just like there are small areas blocked by Cut and Strength in the earlier games. After Tauros there's like none of that though, unless you count Lapras, and even then there's like zero water in SM despite being about a group of fucking islands. I didn't want as much water as Hoenn but you could do a LOT better than that.

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Stop asserting your opinion as fact

>>32910163
I don't think OP was, he was making an argument trying to back up his opinion.

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SM is the worse entry in the main series, until next generation when we get something worse. The games are going to keep getting worse.

>>32908669
>I think my real gripe with the HM system in the past is that they are very poor moves (again, excluding surf) that you just teach to an HM slaves that wastes a slot on your team. Perhaps instead it should not be tied to a HM move that you have to teach, but to the type of Pokemon you have on your team. Let someone who has a tentacruel be able to surf on it, or a boldore to use strength, or a primape to use rock climb, or drifblim use fly. It would make people build varied teams in terms of Pokemon physical shape and size.
Or.... stop me if this is crazy. When you TM a pokemon, that pokemon learns the out of combat ability, AND THEN you can have them learn the attack or not. Or even just completely divorce TMs from attacks.

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>>32906981
You ruined pokemon

>>32907357
>obnoxiously prominent story
>The problem with the story is that the protagonist of the "story" won't obey the rules of the actual game.

I haven't been able to slog through it yet. Elaboration?

>>32912976
Not him, but one really prominent example that's present through a lot of the game is that Lillie doesn't need her own Pokemon to travel through the wilderness. You know how repels work by how strong your Pokemon is? It sure doesn't work that way for Lillie.

The games have told us for years that in order to travel you need your own Pokemon. Lillie can travel through an endgame dungeon without her own Pokemon. There's no real explanation given for this.

>>32912992
I hate sun and moon's """story""", but I feel like the level cap for repel is a game only thing just to prevent you from being grossly underleveled. Even if it isnt, Cosmoem is a pretty damn high level, so she should be fine

>>32907432
agreed with the disagreement

Pros:
>Designated pokeball button on wild encounter screen
>IV checker
>Title defense battles
>Hyper Training (though grinding to lvl 100 is too demanding for no easy methods of doing so in the game)

Can't forget the little quality of life improvements in the game.

>>32913007
Nebby isn't really her Pokemon so the point is moot. In any case it's still a lame exception to throw out.

>>32907010

If you actually thought any puzzle was hard then you are retarded and its not even bad they are gone. They are going for a more visually pleasing exploration instead of a push these blocks around in an obvious order to get through this part of the cave which is redundant.

>>32906933
>Complaining about stuff that can't be changed

I bet you hated XY and ORAS too and ended up spending money on SM regardless?
Vote with your money my nigga.

>>32906933
I went from not having played a pokemon game since gen 2 to playing SM and I tried to play X earlier today and the models and grid movement disgusted me.

>>32913382
>if you spent money on pokemon, you can't complain about it
>if you never spent money on pokemon, you can't complain about it because you didn't buy it and play it
nice

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>>32913431
>Still chasing the high you got from playing RBY and GSC like a pathetic addict
>Not getting it time after time and then whining about it on an image board
>Giving Nintendo and Game Freak hundreds in the process
>Whining is the same as a direct complaint to the company who made the game
>inb4 "But they're Japanese mate!", well VOTE WITH YOUR MONEY JACKASS

Just gonna put it out there. Sun and moon would be a shit ton better without lillie as a character sure shes a plot device but she has to be the most anoying repetitive cunt of a character ive ever seen in pokemon. Shes just frustrating and i hate her

>>32906933
>SM is the worst entry in the series
False premise. DPPt exist.

>>32913447
>constructing a bunch of strawmans
>or are they strawmen?

>>32908468
I hate HM's, but Ride Pokemon aren't really the answer. It stops being your adventure and basically turns you into a fucking tourist that pages the local Tauros when they want to spin around in a tiny box for about 100 hours, or call a Charizard because you don't want to take a boat, nevermind the fact that Charizard isn't even a pokemon you can find in alola and gets shilled once again here. It'd be better if the ride pokemon were pokemon YOU caught, and not just some rent-a-pokemon. Summoning a pokemon from your PC to cut down some bush, help airlift you somewhere, it'd work. They already have all these models anyways, why can't i fly using my Drifblim instead of a Charizard?

Also, the ride music is the worst song in the entire series, barring GSC Dragon's Den.

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>>32913452
lol