Why do we hate Smogon?

This pic isn't fucking related

Also they banned Blaziken because they don't know how to beat it. Their tier system is bullshit and the admins are braindead tyrants that only look competent to incompetent children that consider being good at a videogame about a violent electric mouse and his friends an amazing life accomplishment that makes you qualified to moderate a children's gaming forum.

"we" don't hate smogon
"we" is a plural implying some kind of stupid hive mind.

Don't be a tool, think for yourself.

I use Smogon's strategy dex for ideas for competitive builds, but the community is shit.

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>>32891798
There's no legitimate reason to hate Smogon -- especially if hinging on the word hate. They're a Pokemon community with battle simulations for all kinds of formats and provide chats, tutoring, and other kinds of information-sharing, conversational platforms. They have a set of rules implemented by a council that changes over time and that can be given to the community to decide on (i.e. suspect tests to decide if a Pokemon is banned) or decided by the council if the matter is deemed sufficiently intricate or just blatantly obvious (i.e. quick ban). People are at odds with them this generation because of how slow the suspect process has been given there has been a huge power creep that needs to be addressed, however they take their time to try and normalize the formats before executing another suspect test so that the state of the meta doesn't appear to be a knee-jerk reaction and influence future decisions. They're not infallible though, as last gen the council then implemented a complex restriction in the form of a limiting on Baton Pass despite being against complex bans, but this gen's council has corrected that measure in flat out banning it -- it was a perilous move to make but people will complain whatever the decision was, and this recent decision is more in line with the idea to not promote complex bans.

I think that covers all of it.

because 90% of this board are collar wearing furries

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>>32891841
>Their tier system is bullshit
Why? Because of the bans?
I mean I mostly see Karenfags complain about it, even though it gives many pokemon who would get straight up slaughtered in OU a different place to shine
>>32891896
Why is this so funny

>>32891798
Basically, /vp/ got absolutely Anal Annihilated when Smogon told them that their favorite pokemon doesn't have much competitive viability and that there are better pokemon to choose from, even though Smogon has 1000 different formats just so that even the weaker pokemon have chances to shine. Well, unless your favorite pokemon is Ledian or Luvdisc, then you're shit outta luck.

>>32891798
Because /vp/ hates Pokemon and doesn't play the games. Smogon rules are an offshoot of Pokemon, so they hate it by default.

>>32891798
Smogon doesn't play the game, they use Showdown and act like players. They contribute nothing.

>>32892037
Literally backwards. The games have a competitive scene, smogon ignores them, made up their own rules and only play on Showderp where they can actaully enforce them
They are literally a kid making up their own rules and when you say they can't play they go off and imagine their own game

>>32892093
The competitive scene in Pokémon without Smogon is the most god awful, horrifyingly predictable shit ever known to man.

Every fucking team when I played competitively had cresselia, a genie and some fucking Pokémon with spore or some shit.
When you play UU, you know you won't get assblasted immediately by primal Groudon before you even start, and can kinda expect some sort of battle to occur that deviates from the step by step instructions for winning that mainstream Pokémon competitions have become

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They think they're the law for one thing

>>32892093
This is such warped thinking, to relate a community taking matters into its own hands to children over all other options, especially given how VGC's adoption of Doubles is a shallow attempt to remedy how unbalanced Singles unmonitored is.

>>32892136
>Horrifyingly predictable
That's Smogon alright. But anyway, he asked why /vp/ hates Smogon, not "How well balanced is the meta?"
Also you complained about Pokémon that aren't even legal in competetive.
>>32892142
A community taking matters into it's own hands and into it's own imagination. You literally can not play Smogon rules on a copy of Pokémon, so their have the value of fanfiction to anyone who actually plays the games.

>>32892157
The only really issue is the sleep clause works on honor, other than that is there really anything else you can't just not do to achieve their rules.

>>32892093
Smogon doesn't ignore the games. What the fuck are you talking about? They have formats that follow the games completely as well as threads dedicated to cartridge battling.

>>32892157
I wasn't replying to OP, and Groudon was just an example

>>32892088
This is true.
Quite simply, competitive Pokémon players act like this is THEIR board, displacing native Drawthreads, Writethreads, Edit threads and Art-sharing threads.
It's borderline cancerous.
Smogon makes for an easy target, but our anger should be directed at Pokémon Showdown for disturbing the natural balance. Why couldn't it be a seasonal thing, like new games? The reason it's so bad is because it's a constant presence, like a car alarm.
Smogon was only doing the rational thing by banning certain cancerous tactics. If you hate them for all their tiers and clauses, you're hating them for the wrong reasons.
I just hate competitive players who shit up this board.
They're worse than fake leakers; at least I occasionally laugh at those.
I often see that the first comments about "defending a Pokémon" involve not its design BUT ITS COMPETITIVE VIABILITY.
>LOL IT GOT DEMOTED TO NU XDDDDDD;
>STILL NOT BANNED?????
>HOW CAN WE FIX THIS TYPE?
Do we need a /vpg/? A containment board for competitive cancer?

>>32892157
>A community taking matters into it's own hands and into it's own imagination. You literally can not play Smogon rules on a copy of Pokémon, so their have the value of fanfiction to anyone who actually plays the games.
That's the equivalent of calling America fanfiction because the founding fathers didn't like British rules' shortcomings and founded their own based on British thought but separate of it. It's a matter of perspective, yet you're putting a negative twist on it for some reason that has yet to be disclosed. Starting something new based on something old that you're at odds with is how history goes -- look at Protestantism, a good deal of sports, etc. In other words, I haven't actually heard why you hate Smogon.

A lot of it is people misinterpreting their decisions and operations, but I think the big hangups are how Landorus-T and stall are treated

>>32892198
Competitive Pokemon is an aspect of Pokemon, get used to it because it's not going away. That's what a discussion board about Pokemon will include at times, logically. We had /cpg/ (competitive pokemon general) but they secluded themselves to a circlejerk room on Showdown because threads kept dying on /vp/ during dry seasons and leak seasons -- a chunk of people only develop a renewed interest in competitive a few months after new games come out.

>>32892199
Nah smogon would be the equivalent of a fanfiction of ash and misty giving birth to arceus and a bunch of people treat it as canon

>>32892240
And you have yet to explain why you see it that way -- this is your perspective and it didn't come from nowhere.

>>32891909
>Why is this so funny
Because he's an astonishingly good mascot. A furfag who whines about Smogon and tries to start drama for views. He also probably browses /vp/ regularly.

>>32892161
>>32892163
Please invalidate the statement "You can choose to only play people on the 3DS online feature that also wish to play by Smogon Rules unless you arrange it"
>>32892199
Holy shit are you bait? So turning off your game and playing it with a simulator and calculator because you can't play it by the rules you would prefer is the same as founding a country.

You literally have heard my ANSWER to the QUESTION "Why does /vp/ hate smogon"?
The rules are fanfiction. If you play the actual games they are meaningless.

>>32892198
(You)

>>32892257
"Can't choose" sorry.
Also getting salty only makes your points look pathetic

>>32892257
>Holy shit are you bait? So turning off your game and playing it with a simulator and calculator because you can't play it by the rules you would prefer is the same as founding a country.
Severely missing the point. Calling the mentality of starting your own thing based on something already recognized but that has its shortcomings childish/fanfiction applies to each example. If you can't see why there's already a negative connotation put on the Smogon one yet the other is held in esteem there's some prior hate that's held for Smogon that hasn't come out yet, because that's ignorance otherwise.

Smogon is a battle simulator -- it's not meaningless at all because you can prepare and test teams in a matter of minutes compared to in-game where you can't tell if something is effective or to your liking until you raise the team.

>>32892285
I should specify, Showdown operating under Smogon, is a battle simulator.

>>32892257
Last I checked, I'm on /vp/ and I don't hate smogon so therefore /vp/ does not hate smogon.

>>32892252
A lot of its worshippers view it as official pokemon rules. Follow these rules or get banned from pokemon. Imagine agreeing battling people online, then they start screeching about smogon afterwards and how you "broke the rules of battling." Or sidebar surfing on YouTube only to end up seeing a chain of videos where people are complaining about smogon rules not being enforced in random battles

>>32892137
smogon itself is not the problem....
players that dont realise that smogon is not official think they are the law

>>32892312
That's plenty of BS or you've been interacting with stupid people/children in general. I go on Showdown regularly and surf through Youtube battling videos and such and the rare instances some dumbass claims they're 'official' there's usually a comment chain inclusive of other Smogon players discrediting the original post/person. I have never seen anyone say you'd be banned from Pokemon, but yes people can be upset if you agree to battle OU and break the rules because you agreed to it after all.

>>32892328
>implying smogon was even mentioned on a non smogon forum prior to battling

>>32891886
Very nice post.

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>>32892317
I agree. Smogon isn't the problem; competitive battling is the cancer.
Smogon itself is a positive force.

>>32892310
>Le epic hivemind meme
Great input. He asked why /vp/ hates Smogon, I used my understanding of English and conversations to presume that he was only asking the people that his question applies to! Since you're arguing with an opinion and not even debating it, I'll also assume you're retarded.

>ban baton pass
>ban shadow tag
>ban many, many megas
>ban moody
>ban swagger
>ban evasion
>sleep clause
congratulations, several of the most fun ways to play are now banned because the mods didn't like them
also they're faggots that spend more time playing on that cesspool of a simulator than with the actual games

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>>32891855
basically this

>>32892439
You can play with all of those in AG if you really miss them.

>>32892488
against teams of 3 Primal Groudon, 2 Arceus and a Mega Rayquaza

>>32892510
But those mons are fun to play with too.

>>32891798
/vp/ generally hates Smogon for three reasons. The first is that they're shit at competitive Pokemon and so they take it out on good players. The second is a general lack of understanding, mainly about how the tiering system works but also about Showdown. I'll show you examples of this throughout the many anons posting in this thread. The third is that the community is kind of toxic (but I'd argue that this is true for literally every competitive video-game community).

>>32891841
>Also they banned Blaziken because they don't know how to beat it.
Exhibit A. Blaziken was banned because it forced everyone to run very specific strategies and/or Pokemon on every team, which makes the meta very bland and boring. If someone were to actually read about the ban reasoning they would understand, but most anons on /vp/ would much rather shit all over it before actually learning.

>>32892088
Exhibit B. This anon is literally so retarded that he hasn't gone on Showdown to see that it supports every single meta from Gen 1 OU to Gen 7 VGC. He also assumes that Smogon players don't play the games, which makes absolutely no fucking sense at all.

>>32892093
Exhibit C. This anon doesn't know that many competitive video game communities (mainly Nintendo ones) make up their own rules since the standard ones in the games are terrible and non-competitive. Take the Smash community for example.

>>32892137
Exhibit D. This anon somehow thinks that Smogon tries to force their meta on others even though they support Battle Spot and VGC on the simulator THEY PAY FOR.

>>32892842
(cont)


>>32892157
>Horrifyingly predictable
>That's Smogon alright.
Exhibit E. Smogon has always had the most balanced and non-centralized metagame out of any format, both singles and doubles. It's as simple as comparing usage statistics from Smogon metas and cart metas.
>You literally can not play Smogon rules on a copy of Pokémon
Fucking kek I don't even know how ti respond to this

>>32892198
>getting angry about competitive discussion about Pokemon on a board specifically made for Pokemon

>>32892312
>A lot of its worshippers view it as official pokemon rules. Follow these rules or get banned from pokemon.
Exhibit F. What the fuck does this even mean?

>>32892439
Exhibit G. Thid anon is too retarded to look up why (and how) these things were banned from OU, and she also can't comprehend that Smogon supports many other metas that she can play.

>>32892850
Not but you do realize it's extremely difficult to find a random player to play OU against on cartridge. Let alone any other tier.

>>32891798
I don't dislike Smogon itself. Personally I think the metas are boring but that's why I don't play on it.

Only thing I do dislike about it is that, even when playing on cartridge, you get kiddies that just copy+paste their team from Smogon with little idea of what actually makes it work. But that's every competitive game.

>>32892850
Exhibit F: you don't actually get banned from pokemon. A bunch of the younger smog on fanboys just think threatening to report you to pokemon will scare you. Like the "my big brother works for Microsoft and will ban you from Xbox" shit

Because tiers don't exist and VGC is the only true way to play.

>>32892895
>Go to literally any pokemon chat
>Say "Anyone want to battle OU standard?"
>Exchange FCs and play
It's not that complicated.

>>32891798
The ones who hate smogon are meme-spewing spoiled underaged brats who don't know how it started or how the competitive pokémom scene was in the earlier gens, before wi-fi battling. The original rules were a modified version of colosseum and were adopted by various simulators like netbattle, shoddy, pokemon online and later showdown...

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>>32892137
>not using the better version

>>32891886
Thank you for the good post with no memes or meanness.

You say Baton Pass got a complex ban? How does that work?

>>32893799
No problem.

And the restriction for Baton Pass grew to the point that no Pokemon was allowed to pass both a Speed boost and any other boost to another Pokemon. The reason Baton Pass wasn't outright banned then was that dry passing (Baton Pass without boosts) was a valued means of switching out and pivoting, akin to U-Turn/Volt Switch. It was a teambuilder lock on items and moves that, in combination, defied the restriction. The current council recognized that with the Pokemon additions from Gen 7, this previous restriction wasn't enough, since Baton Pass teams could thrive in spite of the restriction to a remarkable degree and so outright banned Baton Pass instead of looking for other locks to place, with dry passing as collateral damage.

The reason dry passing was precious to hold onto apart from purely pivoting the Pokemon out was that Baton Pass is capable of allowing its user to escape from trappers, most notably Pursuit, unscathed. Pursuit ends up hitting the next Pokemon for its regular 40 BP damage assuming the passer was faster, so for example Baton Pass Celebi can be out with a Pursuit Bisharp and escape without consequence. Dry passing could also be useful for Pokemon that have Wish, like Vaporeon, who could safely pass to a Pokemon dangerously low that can't be switched in hard -- the slow Baton Pass would mean the incoming Pokemon takes no damage and can heal up from the Wish.

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>check out Delcatty's smogon entry
>"smack yourself for trying to use this cat"

Smogon doesn't suck.
The issue comes from the game itself, it wasn't meant to be competitive so of course it's going to be a shitshow when trying to make it balanced.
Everybody loses.

>>32891798
/vp/ is shit in the competitive scene and is dumb to understand the tier system